Latest / Be the Bison / Gratitude: The Antidote to Bitterness in Leadership
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- Andrew Rauch: Hey Bob, welcome to Be the Bison ⁓ podcast where we get to do weekly interviews of missional and consequential leaders and telling their story about a time that they've gone into a storm and what was that like. So I wanna welcome you and appreciate you being here. Bob Tiede: I don't know Andrew, I've been looking forward to our visit. Andrew Rauch: Yeah, awesome. ⁓ fantastic. ⁓ I've got ⁓ I've got this cool little book here that you signed for me. ⁓ can you tell our audience a little bit about you and ⁓ your passion ⁓ for questions, if you will? What what have you been up to? Bob Tiede: Well, my wife Andrew, as you may know, my wife and I have been on the staff of Crew, formerly known as Campus Crusade for Christ, for 55 years. ⁓ your your new friend Bob here obviously has no ability to get a new job. we were eight years in campus ministry and then moved to Texas in nineteen seventy-nine when we were invited to become the CEO of the Josh McDowell Ministry, which is the division of crew. And did that for the next ⁓ 23 years and then or 24 years and ⁓ stepped away from that in 2003, ⁓ took a sabbatical crew brought us seven opportunities. The one that resonated was leadership development, and so been on the US leadership development team since 2004. The mission is simple: developing the next generation of leaders for crew. You asked about questions. In ⁓ 2006, I was already on the U.S. Leadership Development Team, but at a Porter's bookstore in Orlando, I found this book. This literally is the book. Not just ⁓ one I like it, but this is the book I found. ⁓ my practice in a bookstore is always to go to the leadership section, try to find two or three books that look interesting that I've never seen before, find a chair, sit down, and peruse them. Andrew Rauch: Wow. Bob Tiede: Well that's how I found this book. And and as you see, I've got lots of books and there's probably been a morsel of truth in every one. But I had no idea when I bought this that it would change my leadership forever and actually set me on a whole new path. Andrew, whenever I speak, I share that for most of my crew career I was a benevolent dictator. I thought the job of a leader was to figure out what needed to be done. Andrew Rauch: Wow. Bob Tiede: I did say benevolent. I grew up in a home where I was taught to say please and thank you. So, Andrew, if you'd been on my team, I don't think I ever would have said, Hey Andrew, go do this. It'd have been more like, hey Andrew, here's what we're working on. It'd really be great if you could please do this. In other words, I was still delivering the here's what I need you to do message. And when you did it, I would have said thank you at a staff meeting, Andrew, stand up. You all need to hear what Andrew's done. Andrew Rauch: Yeah. Right. Bob Tiede: I don't want to suggest we got nothing done, but I am saying my only paradigm of leadership was thinking. The job of a leader is to figure it out and then instruct your staff what needs to be done. But when I read this book, it was filled with stories of leaders literally from around the globe, not just the US, and the questions they were asking, and I became an instant convert. I instantly saw how leaders who led with questions would be so much more effective. I I only had one question as I read that book. Why hasn't anyone ever shared this with me before? And so that started this journey. My blog Leading with Questions started in 2012. Now ⁓ we just celebrated the fourteenth year and ⁓ I've written seven books. Andrew Rauch: Beautiful. Bob Tiede: ⁓ six of them are free ebooks available at leadingwithquestions dot com. And subscribing to my blog. My blog is now fourteenth year, followed by leaders in over two hundred countries. And ⁓ subscribing is free. Well Andrew, that's probably more than you need it to know, but ⁓ that's where we got started. Andrew Rauch: Beautiful. No, that's what a great introduction. Yeah, thank you. What a great introduction and thank you for your ⁓ many, many years of service with crew and great ministry, great organization and raising up the next generation of leaders. ⁓ it's har it's ⁓ on my heart as well having three grown adult children and ⁓ it was a blessing this last weekend ⁓ to watch my youngest daughter and her teammate that is doing an internship at the Bridge Fellowship in Lebanon, Tennessee get up and ⁓ do a ⁓ a team based sermon together. Bob Tiede: But it's a man. Andrew Rauch: So ⁓ really cool to watch the next generation ⁓ come to the forefront. ⁓ this wasn't a planned question, but just a curiosity question. ⁓ what what experience or what leader recently kind of piqued your interest about how they're asking questions and how they're leading? Do you do you have maybe a a use case or an example that comes to mind? Bob Tiede: Yeah, Okay, Yeah. ⁓ I'm drawing a blank, Andrew. Andrew Rauch: That's okay. I I didn't have that as a planned question, but I wanted to get your feedback, maybe in in line with that, is ⁓ one of the things I've I've been experiencing recently is developing peer communities. And I know you've ⁓ you've written on that topic in your book and the what's the power of strategic name games. I found that one really exciting in in your book. So ⁓ and and how that helps in community. Bob Tiede: Ab absolutely, absolutely. Andrew Rauch: Well, very good. ⁓ let's jump into the conversation about ⁓ a storm. You know, what when people may hear a storm they there may be like Sorry about that, Bob, getting a lot of feedback on that one. ⁓ so tell us a time about a storm that you've gone into. Bob Tiede: Well Andrew, ⁓ for all of us, if we're if we're still alive, ⁓ storms are part of what we encounter. And ⁓ you know, one one thought before I get to the specific storm is ⁓ someone once shared with me that phrase that we see in the scriptures quite often, and it came to pass, ⁓ He he said, here's the good thing about all storms. They pass. He said, none of them come to stay. And I think when we're entering into a storm, it's good to know, yes, he was right. ⁓ we encounter storms, but they don't come to stay. They come to pass. And and so often that experience is actually one that that strengthens us. ⁓ Andrew Rauch: Yeah. No. I'm reminded ⁓ if if I may, just maybe a favorite expression of myself, maybe I say way too often to my kids and it's yeah, and this too shall pass. Bob Tiede: Yes, yes. So true. So true. ⁓ you know when we see that storm in our windshield, it's good to know that ⁓ soon it'll be in the rearview mirror. ⁓ Andrew Rauch: So Great great example. Well Bob, ⁓ good ⁓ good perspective and insights. ⁓ so tell us a little bit about a storm that you may have experienced either professionally or personally and this is not this is not like a deep share, you gotta you know tell everything, but love to hear your story. Bob Tiede: Yeah. In 2003, after working ⁓ with my brother Josh Me Dow for 24 years, we made a mutual decision, and I stepped away from that role. And ⁓ and that that whole thing happened rather quickly, and ⁓ it certainly felt like a storm. ⁓ I stepped away on a Tuesday. And and I but I want to back up and tell another story. ⁓ probably about a year before, I had to, for financial reasons, ⁓ leave several staff go for financial reasons, not for poor performance. And one of them I'll I'll never forget. His name was Walt. And ⁓ this probably dates me, but for for anyone who remembers. John Wayne Western movies. ⁓ John Wayne would take an arrow or a bullet, it would knock him down, and in a little bit he'd get back up, shake himself off, and go fight again. Well, I share that to say when I informed Walt that we were letting him go, I I just saw Walt sink in his chair. Just like John Wayne just got hit. Andrew Rauch: Right. Bob Tiede: And then I saw Walt collect himself, sit back up, and he said, Bob. Yeah. We've gotten to do some terrific things together. And and he began to go through a list of things that we'd gotten to do together. And as I sat there I thought, wow, wow, what what an incredible example Walt was being to me on how to handle a situation like that. So a year later Josh and I are having this conversation and we reach this mutual decision and I felt myself sinking in the chair. And then I remember Walt. And I sat back up and I began to say, Wow, Josh, yeah, all the things we've gotten to do. 18 mission trips to Russia. The request we got from the Russian army for a million copies of Josh's book, More Than a Carpenter, obviously in Russian, and got the money raised. That the first Carol, there's so many stories, but begin to do that. And ⁓ And then tied to that, obviously left. ⁓ four days later, I was spending the day with my lifelong mentor, dear brother named Bob Beale. And we're spending a whole day. So we started with breakfast, and over breakfast, I was recounting the events of the week and what had led to that decision. And ⁓ And Bob asked me what I consider to be the greatest question I've ever been asked. He said, Bob, you worked with Josh McDowell for 24 years. What did you learn from the man? Well, I began to share some of the things I've learned. And Bob said, Wow, Bob, do you have these written down? I said, No. He said, Why not? I said, Well, very simple. No one's ever asked me this question before. And he said, Well, Bob, you need to write them down. And and and after a pause, and he said, And you know what else? And I said, What else? He said, and after you have them all written down, you need to share them with Josh. It'll bless his heart. And at that moment, Andrew, I went, bingo! And Bob said, Bingo! I said, Sherry and I, Sherry's my wife, have been visiting, and I and I said, I said to Sherry, I just Andrew Rauch: Beautiful. Bob Tiede: sense that we ought to give Josh and Dottie a gift to express appreciation for 24 years of partnership. And asked Sherry, what do you think that could be? And she had no clue and I had no clue. The only clue we had is we probably couldn't pick it up at the shopping mall. But we had no idea. But when Bob Beal asked me that question and said, hey, you need to write them down and and then give them to Josh, My bingo was that's it, that's the gift. And so from October to December 19th, I worked on a list. On December 19th, I had 62 things. No rhyme or reason to the number 62, that's just how many I have. And the reason I say December 19th is I wanted to put this into a little spiral bum booklet, the kind of things you could get done at Kinkos. Andrew Rauch: Beautiful. Bob Tiede: And I wanted it under the McDowell Christmas tree. And so quickly went to Kinko's, I think ⁓ did 20 books, you know, booklets really, and and sent ⁓ off ⁓ six to the McDowells, one for Josh, one for Dottie, one for each of their children. Also had them under our Christmas tree for our children. And and overnight, you know, wrapped them up. Christmas paper, ⁓ fad ex dumb instructions, don't open until Christmas. Well about noon on Christmas Day, the phone rings. Now I had momentarily forgotten. Who calls you on Christmas Day? Well, I expected to be my parents or my sister. But it was Josh. Wow. Andrew Rauch: Okay. Sure. Bob Tiede: I don't know where you came up with this idea, but this is probably the most meaningful gift I've ever received. Wow. Josh said, Dottie wants to talk to you. Dottie gets on the phone and she says, Bob, I'm mad at you. I could tell she wasn't. I could say, but I said, Dottie, it's Christmas. Why would you be mad? She said, Well, you shouldn't have to weep for 30 minutes. She said, I've wept all the way through this. And of course, ⁓ Andrew Rauch: ⁓ Yeah. Ha ha ha. Bob Tiede: What Dottie was experiencing was that yes, we weren't in a formal working relationship, but we were still in relationship. And Andrew, later as I thought back on this experience, I realized I'd given one gift, but I got three gifts in return. And Andrew Rauch: How so? Bob Tiede: And the first gift I got in return, you know, so often, yeah, as we go through life, we do end working relationships. We we worked here so long and we're moving to the next thing. And so often when we end that, later we reflect back and say, Man, I th that just didn't end as well as I would have liked. And I realized, again, because of this question from my friend Bob Beale putting that together, that this allowed us to end well. We end it well. And when you end well, that's a gift to yourself. The the second thing is we're instructed in the scriptures to not allow the seed of bitterness to spring up. Andrew Rauch: Yeah. Yeah, that's beautiful gift. Yeah. Thank thank you for Right. Bob Tiede: And ⁓ and as I look back at that situation, it's like had I gone down that path, I could have become embittered. one of my yeah, one of my dear friends now in heaven, Steve Douglas, who is the second president of Campus Crusade for Christ, ⁓ he would share that the key to overcoming bitterness is not Andrew Rauch: Yeah. Bob Tiede: To sit and say, I won't be better, I won't be bitter, I won't be better. He said, That doesn't actually work. But he said, Here's the key. Do something to bless the person you might become embittered towards. He said, the act of blessing will be like flipping the light switch on in darkness. Instantly you flip the white light switch, there's no darkness. And he said, the act of blessing someone just removes. all possibility. And again, the scripture says don't allow, be be pre ⁓ venditive in avoiding bitterness. And so at any rate I found that that whole fall as I was writing those things and adding and just imagining Josh seeing these and and how blessed he'd be, it completely changed ⁓ well it prevented. Andrew Rauch: Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Bob Tiede: And and to this day there's only love and admiration and and that thing. And then I said three gifts. The the third gift Andrew Rauch: Thank you for yeah. Bob Tiede: w was ⁓ and again these are from the lord these these are not out of Bob wisdom I saw these in hindsight but ⁓ but the third gift was I think by allowing God's Holy Spirit allowing me to take the high road I think is actually what opened the door for me to be invited to serve on the US leadership development team. And you know, I I can I can ⁓ think had I gone down the other path of of this wasn't fair, I've been mistreated, better the result may have been that I wouldn't have been invited. And ⁓ and Andrew Rauch: Bitter. Yeah. Yeah. Bob Tiede: Again, what a wonderful experience. Andrew Rauch: Thank thank you for sharing it. Thank you for sharing. I I love ⁓ how you teed up that story and that storm of ⁓ you know when the clouds are coming and ⁓ y you know you're gonna have to go into the storm, you know, like going into the office and you know being with your partner or CEO or ⁓ manager or whoever, right? And say, you know, this is not gonna work. ⁓ and you know, so often the the brokenness, the bitterness comes because it wasn't ha wasn't handled well. But you grave you give us a great example and model saying, Hey, be prepared, ⁓ be ready, ⁓ be ready to bless them, be out be out front, ready for that storm to come. And, you know, if the storm comes, it will, right? But ⁓ our job is n not to not to worry about the results, like God be ⁓ be in the results business. And you shared three great ⁓ gifts of how you were blessed because of that. Bob Tiede: People. Yeah, Yeah. Well, Andrew, whenever I now encounter someone who just who shares that they've just recently stepped away from a job, is is I share a bit of that story and I and I ask them, hey, what did you learn from your manager? You you worked there a year, you worked there two years. Well what'd you learn? What what are a couple of things you learned from that manager that actually are going to serve you well the rest of your life? And almost always they have an answer. And I I then suggest ⁓ wow you oughta pin those in a letter and send them. I said ⁓ Do you think that managers receive so many letters like this that they wouldn't have time to read yours? And they always laugh and say, No, I probably he or she probably has never received anything like that. I said, Yeah. And ⁓ and then I said, second, ⁓ Andrew Rauch: Sure. Bob Tiede: Life is long and the world is small. And where I'm going with that is, you know, you work in a certain field and you leave job one, and as you leave, you might think, good riddance, don't have to work with those people again. And you go to job two. And at some point when you're proceeding to find job three, don't be surprised if some of the people are working. With you at job one, already at job three. In fact, you walk in to be interviewed, and there's your previous supervisor. If you've sent this letter thanking them for how they helped you, you can almost guarantee you'll have the job. ⁓ Andrew Rauch: Right. Great wisdom. Bob Tiede: Pinning a thank you note with one or two will completely change and you too will you'll be blessing them. It'll give you a different perspective. That's a gift to yourself. And of course you're giving a gift to them and and then you get the gift of ending well. Andrew Rauch: Beautiful. ⁓ thank you for that. I I actually had a recent experience with a business partner that I've known for forty years. So, ⁓ Bob, hold me accountable next time we chat. ⁓ say, Hey, did you ⁓ did you write ⁓ something to to Daniel? And ⁓ you know, I wanna ⁓ I'm gonna try to incorporate that into my conversations. Probably like you meet a lot of people, ⁓ they wanna connect or they wanna have conversations. I'm gonna try to try to do that as a follow-up ⁓ as a way to bless them. So thank you for that. ⁓ Bob, ⁓ as we wrap up today, is there any other wisdom? This has been great. Anything else you wanna share as far as a takeaway or or an application? Bob Tiede: Well I think the ⁓ I briefly just shared the application and that is ⁓ Whenever you step away from a role, take the time to pin that supervisor, that that brief thank you note, but sharing something they ⁓ taught you, shared with you, you observed that you're going to implement the rest of your life. And send that. And then I'd also suggest it's never too late to send that. Maybe there was somebody you worked with fifteen years ago, but you realize Something I learned from that person I'm still using today. ⁓ you know, Andrew, I I once I think ⁓ 30 years after I graduated from high school, I had the wonderful occasion of running into my high school typing teacher, Mrs. Copel. And and I was really so happy to see her because I'd thought of this a number of times. And when I saw her, I said, Mrs. Copel, I've got to thank you. Of all the classes I had in high school, there's only one I'm still using every day. Mrs. Copel, you taught me how to type with all my fingers. I don't do this. I have all my fingers. And every day I use that skill. I said, there's no other class I had in high school that I'm using every single day. Thank you. And ⁓ and and again she smiled and I'm saying it was thirty years after. But ⁓ I was so thankful to run into her. So if somebody's taught you something even long ago, it's never too late. If they're still this side of heaven, it's not too late to reach out, call them, text them, send them a letter and express that thanks. It it'll it'll probably not just make their day, it'll make their week or month also. They'll remember that periodically and and smile. Andrew Rauch: What a what a wonderful and simple ⁓ thing to do, ⁓ Bob, ⁓ giving gratitude. So thank you for that. Thank you for a ⁓ really encouraging conversation today. Bob, if somebody wants to connect with you, learn a bit more about ⁓ your books, what's the best way to do that? Bob Tiede: Just go to leading withquestions.com, leading withquestions.com. ⁓ once you get there, you'll see a place where you can subscribe. Subscribing is free. And also on top you'll see the word books. If you click on books, you'll have access to ⁓ now seven free ebooks. And ⁓ and they're also available in multiple. languages, but if you just go to leadingwithquestions dot com and then click on books you'll see all of them and ⁓ access one or several or all. Andrew Rauch: Yeah. So just ⁓ piggybacking off of what Bob said in terms of application, hey, go grab one of those free ebooks and ⁓ as you're sending out emails or you're following up with people, give them a little gift of Bob's book. That'd be a great thing to do. All right, Bob, thank you for joining Be the Bison Podcast. Yes, go ahead. What what else? Bob Tiede: Yeah. W one more thing. I talked about this little booklet I put together, sixty two things I learned from Josh. I'll send you a link ⁓ where anyone can download the free ebook version of that, if ⁓ if they'd like. Andrew Rauch: Perfect. That that's great. Thank you for that that gift, Bob. And yeah, go to ⁓ Venture in Philanthropy and forward slash be the bison to listen to this ⁓ podcast. ⁓ we're also on Spotify, Apple, ⁓ YouTube, lots of different platforms. But ⁓ thank you, Bob, for your time today. It was ⁓ it was a pleasure and I I learned something. So thank you. Bob Tiede: Well, you're a great host, Andrew. It's been my pr privilege.