Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / The Week That Was - 14th October 2022

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The Week That Was - 14th October 2022 · 360 with Katie Woolf

0:00
Speaker 1: And it is that time time for the week that
0:02
Speaker 1: was and joining me in the studio this morning. We've
0:04
Speaker 1: got the colp's Bill Yan, good morning.
0:06
Speaker 2: Good morning, Katie, great to be back.
0:08
Speaker 1: Good to have you in the studio. We've got nine
0:10
Speaker 1: News Darwin's Kathleen Gazola, good morning. And we've got the
0:13
Speaker 1: Attorney General Chancey Pai, good morning. Great have you all
0:17
Speaker 1: in the studio this morning. I'll make sure Chancey's microphone's
0:20
Speaker 1: right there for him so I can hear him this morning. Now,
0:22
Speaker 1: there is no doubt that there has been so much
0:25
Speaker 1: on the agenda this week. In fact, in the last
0:27
Speaker 1: twenty four hours, there's been a lot going on, enough
0:30
Speaker 1: for us to fill up a whole hour of the show,
0:32
Speaker 1: I would suggest, in the last twenty four hours, and
0:35
Speaker 1: never never any trouble with us talking. Now, let me
0:39
Speaker 1: go first to the age of criminal responsibility changes. We
0:42
Speaker 1: do know that the Northern Territory Government is raising the
0:46
Speaker 1: minimum age of criminal responsibility from ten to twelve years old,
0:49
Speaker 1: with legislation to be introduced well it was yesterday and
0:53
Speaker 1: debated in November. The Northern Territory Government says that the
0:56
Speaker 1: commencement well from commencement if a child eleven years or
1:00
Speaker 1: under engages in concerning behavior, they'll be dealt with by
1:05
Speaker 1: no longer by the Northern Territory Police as my understanding,
1:07
Speaker 1: but they will be dealt with by territory families. I
1:10
Speaker 1: think in the first instance potentially the police, but then
1:13
Speaker 1: it will be through territory families referring the child and
1:17
Speaker 1: their family to what has been described as intensive parenting
1:21
Speaker 1: programs as well as behavioral change programs. Now, it was
1:26
Speaker 1: a lot for people to take in. I think yesterday
1:28
Speaker 1: we all knew that it was coming, like we all
1:30
Speaker 1: knew that the age of criminal responsibility was going to
1:34
Speaker 1: be changed. It was a recommendation of the Royal Commission.
1:36
Speaker 1: But I think the surprise to everybody was the timing
1:39
Speaker 1: of it, because we've got a situation where people in
1:42
Speaker 1: Alice Springs saying that they've reached absolute crisis level. We've
1:46
Speaker 1: spoken to the chair of Tourism Central Australia on Wednesday
1:50
Speaker 1: this week where he'd told me about tourists being spat on,
1:55
Speaker 1: somebody being assaulted in the Visitor Information Center, which we've
1:59
Speaker 1: known about a couple of weeks ago, and that sense
2:03
Speaker 1: that there was no control of what is going on. Now.
2:05
Speaker 1: I totally understand that children aged eleven and under represent
2:11
Speaker 1: a very small amount of the crime that is being
2:15
Speaker 1: committed around the Northern Territory, but I think there was
2:18
Speaker 1: a real sense from the community this week that the
2:20
Speaker 1: government had mixed their priorities up.
2:24
Speaker 3: Anything.
2:25
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, of course, I love to talk about this.
2:27
Speaker 5: I got to introduce it. Yeah, look again, it's a
2:30
Speaker 5: recommendation of the Royal Commission. But I think it's really
2:33
Speaker 5: important to highlight here that what this does is it
2:36
Speaker 5: actually goes to the core of breaking that cycle of
2:40
Speaker 5: reoffending because the earlier we're getting young people into the
2:45
Speaker 5: criminal justice system, it absolutely embeds their relationship with that system.
2:50
Speaker 5: And we know that the earliest that they go in,
2:52
Speaker 5: the more prolonged that journey is. So what this is
2:56
Speaker 5: about is it's absolutely saying that young people need to
2:59
Speaker 5: be directed away from the criminal justice system. Now, police
3:03
Speaker 5: will still have the powers under the Care and Protection
3:06
Speaker 5: Act to investigate antisocial behavior and all forms of crime,
3:11
Speaker 5: and they'll have the power to still take those children
3:14
Speaker 5: into custody while they find a safe place for them.
3:18
Speaker 5: The range of programs there are about directing that young
3:22
Speaker 5: person away so that they don't go into these youth
3:25
Speaker 5: detention centers and learn the tricks of the trade from
3:28
Speaker 5: the older cohort that are in there. This is about
3:31
Speaker 5: saying we need to we need that circuit breaker, and
3:34
Speaker 5: we need to do that intensive support the restorative justice
3:38
Speaker 5: and those programs, because again this is evidence based.
3:42
Speaker 6: I think what most people or the people I've certainly
3:45
Speaker 6: had spoken to yesterday, who were against this or concerned
3:49
Speaker 6: about it, were concerned about those programs itself that are
3:53
Speaker 6: meant to direct them away.
3:54
Speaker 3: I mean, no one wants to see.
3:55
Speaker 6: Ten year olds in detention, and as everyone has said,
3:58
Speaker 6: it is a rare asian for a ten year old
4:01
Speaker 6: or under twelve to go to detention. So the reason
4:05
Speaker 6: why the government hadn't brought this in sooner is because
4:07
Speaker 6: they were waiting for these programs to come into place
4:09
Speaker 6: to provide those alternatives for those young people. But I mean,
4:14
Speaker 6: I don't know if you agree with me, Katie, but
4:16
Speaker 6: we haven't seen those programs. Clearly, those programs are in
4:19
Speaker 6: place at the moment, they're not working because we're seeing
4:22
Speaker 6: those young people do more crimes, more often and becoming
4:27
Speaker 6: far more violent.
4:28
Speaker 1: Well that's exactly right, and that I think is the
4:30
Speaker 1: concerning point. And I've got to say I was a
4:32
Speaker 1: little bit concerned listening to Parliament yesterday when there were
4:34
Speaker 1: questions being asked about, you know, about different instances that
4:38
Speaker 1: have occurred of late No no Chancey. I'd raised a
4:40
Speaker 1: few of those with you yesterday morning when i'd interviewed you.
4:43
Speaker 1: One in particular that made me feel really quite sad
4:46
Speaker 1: was the thirteen year old autistic boy whose grandma I'd
4:50
Speaker 1: spoken to on the radio a few weeks back, who'd
4:52
Speaker 1: allegedly been assaulted by ten and eleven year old kids.
4:56
Speaker 1: And then I heard in Parliament yesterday the minister saying,
4:58
Speaker 1: you know that it's it's ingenuous to be talking about
5:01
Speaker 1: specific cases, but the thing is it's really important that
5:04
Speaker 1: we actually think about those victims and that space to it.
5:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's what is at the end of the day.
5:11
Speaker 7: And the police came out yesterday, the Police Association came
5:13
Speaker 7: out yesterday and said that they don't support this change.
5:17
Speaker 7: It's going to make their job harder. It's certainly not
5:19
Speaker 7: going to do anything to reduce the crime that we're seeing,
5:22
Speaker 7: and sadly, I think in some cases it's going to
5:25
Speaker 7: empower some of those younger people know that they're not
5:28
Speaker 7: going to be responsible for any of the crimes that they.
5:30
Speaker 2: Commit to go out and do more, and.
5:34
Speaker 7: Of course seeing young people exploited by older, older kids
5:38
Speaker 7: and adults, knowing that those younger people won't be able
5:43
Speaker 7: to be prosecuted for what they do. And I agree,
5:46
Speaker 7: I don't want to see ten and eleven year olds
5:48
Speaker 7: in custodate. We've already the mechanisms are already in place
5:52
Speaker 7: now Section.
5:53
Speaker 2: Forty three the Criminal Code Act.
5:54
Speaker 7: I believe it says that the prosecution has to prove
5:58
Speaker 7: that the young person was responsible and knew what they
6:02
Speaker 7: were doing was wrong, and that's already in place now,
6:04
Speaker 7: and we see very very few young people going into
6:07
Speaker 7: that justice system because of that. And Dolly Incapax, I
6:10
Speaker 7: think that piece of legislation also does the same thing.
6:13
Speaker 7: So I agree that the timing of this, I think
6:16
Speaker 7: is probably not great. It doesn't send the right message
6:19
Speaker 7: to the people in the community.
6:20
Speaker 1: So I think what's really important this morning is for
6:23
Speaker 1: the community to hear more about some of these programs
6:26
Speaker 1: and more about some of what is going to go
6:29
Speaker 1: on for those who do break the law and to
6:32
Speaker 1: do the wrong thing. Because I know that, you know,
6:35
Speaker 1: if my child was a victim of crime against you know,
6:40
Speaker 1: by somebody who was a young person who was ten
6:42
Speaker 1: or eleven, if I had somebody break into my home
6:45
Speaker 1: who was that age, along with kids that were older.
6:49
Speaker 1: Like we've all said, nobody wants to see young children
6:52
Speaker 1: in jail. Nobody wants to see nine ten eleven year
6:55
Speaker 1: olds in jail. Like I've said, I've got children that
6:58
Speaker 1: very age. The thought of it makes me feel really
7:00
Speaker 1: sad that anybody would be engaged in behavior like that.
7:03
Speaker 1: But the fact of the matter is here in the
7:05
Speaker 1: Northern Territory we have that happening. So what are those programs,
7:09
Speaker 1: Chancy so that we can give some kind of comfort
7:13
Speaker 1: to the community that there is going to be ramifications
7:17
Speaker 1: for their actions.
7:18
Speaker 5: Look, I think when we're talking about programs and we're
7:21
Speaker 5: talking about the types of activity that's happening, is certainly
7:26
Speaker 5: acknowledging that Minister Warden has the portfolio of responsibility for
7:31
Speaker 5: territory families and has done huge work and has been
7:34
Speaker 5: up and down the track right across the territory looking
7:37
Speaker 5: and working with these programs. You know, seven EMUs out
7:40
Speaker 5: in the Barkley. She's been doing work in Alice Springs
7:43
Speaker 5: with the back on track. I know that she's got
7:45
Speaker 5: announcements next week that she'll be talking to around social
7:50
Speaker 5: order responses and so forth.
7:51
Speaker 4: So again, these are looking at.
7:53
Speaker 5: The restorative justice practices, they're looking at that victim conferencing,
7:57
Speaker 5: they're looking at these boot camps as people would call them.
8:02
Speaker 4: But also as.
8:03
Speaker 1: Part of this would see any of those boot camps
8:05
Speaker 1: in play shift.
8:06
Speaker 5: Look, I know that Minister Warden's done a huge amount
8:09
Speaker 5: of work around those camps, whether they are in the
8:11
Speaker 5: territory or whether they're Operation Flinders, but also acknowledging that
8:16
Speaker 5: again part of this process is around forensic mental health
8:22
Speaker 5: assessments and psychological assessments as well, to make sure that
8:27
Speaker 5: when we're addressing those behaviors with those young children who
8:31
Speaker 5: are you know, ten and eleven year olds, that we
8:35
Speaker 5: work with them to give them the support mechanisms and
8:38
Speaker 5: their families to.
8:40
Speaker 4: Stop that behavior.
8:41
Speaker 5: We've also Katie, let's be clear, we did bring in
8:45
Speaker 5: legislation on ring leader legislation so that if there are
8:49
Speaker 5: people over the age of twelve who are trying to
8:53
Speaker 5: use a young person a child under the age of twelve,
8:57
Speaker 5: then they very well, will be before the law, before
9:00
Speaker 5: the court.
9:00
Speaker 1: Now what I'm really keen to find out. Obviously I've
9:03
Speaker 1: touched on the seven EMU station, you've touched on back
9:05
Speaker 1: on Track, those victim conferencing and also boot camps. Now,
9:10
Speaker 1: the last time I think that I've had a really
9:12
Speaker 1: kind of heavy conversation about these kinds of programs was
9:16
Speaker 1: probably when the former Chief Minister, Michael Gunner was in
9:20
Speaker 1: and there were a lot of questions asked about the
9:22
Speaker 1: success rate of these. Now he had said that there
9:25
Speaker 1: was a thirty percent success rate. I believe it was,
9:27
Speaker 1: or it may have been a bit more for one
9:30
Speaker 1: of the particular places, but couldn't tell me how many
9:33
Speaker 1: kids had gone through it. I think that if the
9:34
Speaker 1: government wants to take the community along for this journey,
9:38
Speaker 1: all of those numbers are going to need to come out.
9:41
Speaker 1: We're going to need to get some really clear stats
9:43
Speaker 1: on what's working what's not working. I know that the
9:46
Speaker 1: Minister had said that Janet Kerr obviously doing that review
9:50
Speaker 1: in Central Australia and looking to do the same here
9:53
Speaker 1: in the Northern Suburbs and around Darwin. But people need
9:57
Speaker 1: to know what is working and if we've got any
9:59
Speaker 1: of them programs that are not working and it's wasting money,
10:03
Speaker 1: then we need to focus on the areas yet a
10:05
Speaker 1: good thing and make sure that we've got kids going
10:07
Speaker 1: through it.
10:08
Speaker 5: I think it's important to be clear here. Yes, I've
10:11
Speaker 5: introduced the legislation. It's on the notice paper now, and
10:15
Speaker 5: then we'll debate that in November. I have said right
10:18
Speaker 5: from the onset that it has a deferred commencement and
10:22
Speaker 5: I will not commence the legislation until I, as the
10:25
Speaker 5: Attorney General, am satisfied that the programs and the supports
10:29
Speaker 5: are in place, and then it'll be commencement by gazette.
10:33
Speaker 5: So we are doing work out in the community now
10:36
Speaker 5: with a number of other organizations in our urban centers
10:39
Speaker 5: and in our larger remote.
10:40
Speaker 4: Communities for these programs.
10:42
Speaker 5: They are being co designed in some of those areas,
10:46
Speaker 5: so I can give you that assurance. I am not
10:49
Speaker 5: going to commence the legislation of the Act until I
10:54
Speaker 5: am satisfied that those programs are in place, that they
10:57
Speaker 5: are funded, and that we're ready to go.
10:59
Speaker 1: What would as you see as being adequate? Then when
11:02
Speaker 1: we talk about some of those different programs, what do
11:05
Speaker 1: you think is going to be appropriate before you allow
11:07
Speaker 1: that to happen.
11:08
Speaker 4: Yeah.
11:08
Speaker 5: Look, I think having the right mix of programs in place,
11:12
Speaker 5: programs that are residential programs that are required of daily
11:16
Speaker 5: participation in country, in our towns, there are a whole
11:21
Speaker 5: different range of settings that need to be in place.
11:24
Speaker 5: And also, I think we all use this word therapeutic,
11:28
Speaker 5: but I think we really need to break that down
11:31
Speaker 5: and actually address what does that word actually mean so
11:34
Speaker 5: that members in our community can understand what that means,
11:38
Speaker 5: and that means around dealing with challenging behaviors, de escalating
11:41
Speaker 5: and addressing some of the behavioral attitudes and the issues
11:46
Speaker 5: that cause that criminogenic behavior.
11:48
Speaker 1: Can I ask, because I know that you know, we've
11:51
Speaker 1: had situations before. I've had the police tell me about
11:54
Speaker 1: situations before in Central Australia, for example, where there was
11:57
Speaker 1: a couple of nine year old kids. This is going
11:59
Speaker 1: a little back, a couple of nine year old kids
12:01
Speaker 1: who had been engaged in behavior where they, if I
12:04
Speaker 1: remember correctly, had broken into a couple of homes in
12:08
Speaker 1: Alice Springs. The police took them home. Their families didn't
12:11
Speaker 1: even know that they had gone anywhere. Now then we're
12:14
Speaker 1: talking about taking them back obviously to a family situation,
12:18
Speaker 1: and they're making families responsible. But how are we going
12:21
Speaker 1: to be making families responsible? How can we legally actually
12:25
Speaker 1: make those families responsible if a kid is breaking the law.
12:29
Speaker 2: And that's the bigger picture thing, Katie.
12:30
Speaker 7: And what I find really interesting is it we're only
12:33
Speaker 7: just talking about these programs and stuff now with this
12:36
Speaker 7: change in legislation. This stuff's been going on for ages.
12:39
Speaker 7: It's been happy in our communities for ages. Why haven't
12:42
Speaker 7: these programs and this discussion happened two years ago, four years,
12:46
Speaker 7: six years ago. Why are we just talking about it
12:49
Speaker 7: now with the introduction of this legislation.
12:51
Speaker 5: I think that we really know, we know all of
12:54
Speaker 5: those communities had been doing a great job.
12:57
Speaker 2: Oh yeah they are. But why all of a sudden
12:59
Speaker 2: you now ramping it up.
13:00
Speaker 7: You're going to change the legislation, You're going to start
13:02
Speaker 7: ramping up and doing all this other sort of stuff.
13:04
Speaker 7: This stuff should have been happening for ages. These groups
13:07
Speaker 7: should have been funded, There should have been appropriate programs in.
13:10
Speaker 2: Place for a long time.
13:11
Speaker 7: And the Chief particularly that she agreed that the issue
13:17
Speaker 7: is and the problem is that these kids haven't got
13:20
Speaker 7: anywhere safe to go.
13:21
Speaker 2: She said it on radio on Alice Springs with Brashy
13:23
Speaker 2: last week.
13:23
Speaker 7: So why hasn't government addressed that, Why don't these kids
13:26
Speaker 7: actually have someone with safe to go and why hasn't
13:29
Speaker 7: that been a focus of government?
13:30
Speaker 5: Oh my god, Katie, the CLP has no idea. There
13:34
Speaker 5: is a safe place in Alice Springs called Salt Push
13:37
Speaker 5: where people can go.
13:39
Speaker 4: These programs are in place, they've been doing a great job.
13:42
Speaker 5: We've been working with the sector to make sure that
13:45
Speaker 5: they are ready and that they had the capacity for
13:47
Speaker 5: us to be in a position to raise the age.
13:49
Speaker 5: So this has been an ongoing volume.
13:52
Speaker 2: Until the people in our springs chancing well.
13:54
Speaker 6: I mean, yeah, if all these programs sound fantastic and
13:58
Speaker 6: you do really want them to work, because we have
14:00
Speaker 6: been talking about this issue, you and IKD for years now,
14:04
Speaker 6: honestly really have gone hard on the government right and
14:08
Speaker 6: come back with all these things and fantastic that the
14:10
Speaker 6: community sector is doing this, But people who are victims
14:14
Speaker 6: of crime aren't seeing that impact, and that is the
14:17
Speaker 6: biggest problem, and that's going to be the hardest thing
14:20
Speaker 6: for labor to show when selling these law reforms and
14:24
Speaker 6: you know, bringing in the actual program, bringing in the
14:26
Speaker 6: laws when these programs are in place. I mean, people
14:29
Speaker 6: aren't seeing the outcomes of these. We talk about back
14:33
Speaker 6: on Track that was announced as.
14:35
Speaker 1: The big what we're going to.
14:38
Speaker 6: Help with youth crime, and all these programs are going
14:41
Speaker 6: to be part of back and Track, and so it
14:43
Speaker 6: just seems like people have heard this before and it's
14:47
Speaker 6: not being translated.
14:50
Speaker 1: Look, I want to take a really short break because
14:51
Speaker 1: when we come back, I do want to continue down
14:53
Speaker 1: this path, but take you on a bit of a
14:55
Speaker 1: different path. I guess we know that there have been
14:58
Speaker 1: some further ram raids overnight. We'll take you through that,
15:00
Speaker 1: but also the government's crime announcement from yesterday. Will take
15:03
Speaker 1: a very short break. You are listening to Mix one
15:06
Speaker 1: O four nine's three point sixty. It is the week
15:08
Speaker 1: that was. If you have just joined us Bill Yan,
15:10
Speaker 1: Kathleen Gazola and Chancey Paik in the studio with me
15:13
Speaker 1: this morning discussing the issues of the week. But I
15:16
Speaker 1: do just want to take you across to well a
15:18
Speaker 1: question from one of our listeners, Craig from Catherine saying,
15:21
Speaker 1: can you please explain what that salt bush is? What
15:25
Speaker 1: can you please explain that salt bush is? Bail supported
15:27
Speaker 1: accommodation in Alice or what exactly is at Chancy.
15:32
Speaker 5: Yeah, so Salt Bush is a place in Alice Springs
15:35
Speaker 5: where we can take young people if they don't have
15:39
Speaker 5: a safe place to go. We know that we don't
15:41
Speaker 5: want them in a jail cell or in a police
15:44
Speaker 5: custody cell. So they do have the power to take
15:47
Speaker 5: them to Salt Bush and we can have young people there.
15:50
Speaker 1: Okay, Now I do want to take you to an
15:53
Speaker 1: issue that's occurred obviously from overnight. My understanding is that
15:56
Speaker 1: there's been a couple of rambraids overnight. Basically, there was
16:00
Speaker 1: a ram raid last night at Berry Springs tavern, which
16:03
Speaker 1: I do know about. I've been sent video ten to
16:05
Speaker 1: twelve blocks. Youngsters entered when two staff was still in
16:10
Speaker 1: there closing up. Now I am in contact right now
16:13
Speaker 1: with well with one of the owners, Leah Sloan, and
16:18
Speaker 1: she has said that essentially they're in a situation I
16:22
Speaker 1: believe where her daughter was one of those that was
16:26
Speaker 1: locked in the office watching footage for six minutes while
16:29
Speaker 1: all those men rated the whole premises. You know, she
16:33
Speaker 1: said it could have been very different if they you know,
16:36
Speaker 1: if they didn't drop the money and run. But essentially
16:39
Speaker 1: what we have seen from that vision is them ram
16:43
Speaker 1: raid into through those roller doors. Then everybody scattered through
16:49
Speaker 1: and steal alcohol. It's like swarming in and stealing alcohol.
16:52
Speaker 1: Now what frightens me about that is then that you've
16:54
Speaker 1: got offers, you've got people inside that building, you've got
16:57
Speaker 1: staff inside that building, and you know nobody knows then
17:01
Speaker 1: how dangerous that's going to get. So that's a terrible
17:03
Speaker 1: situation then that they've been through overnight. But let's be
17:06
Speaker 1: really bluntly honest here. I spoke to the Todd Tavern
17:09
Speaker 1: last week all the week before in Alice Springs, the
17:12
Speaker 1: manager there who told me that they've been in a
17:14
Speaker 1: similar situation. I can't remember how many occasions.
17:16
Speaker 2: It was twice in recent months.
17:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, the one the other day.
17:20
Speaker 7: Yeah, then the middle of the road shop got hit
17:24
Speaker 7: Wednesday night, and not just smashing the roll or smash
17:27
Speaker 7: through the wall through a concrete ballard. What really scares me, though, Katie,
17:31
Speaker 7: is that if someone happens to be in that shop
17:34
Speaker 7: and in that area when the car goes through.
17:37
Speaker 2: These people could kill somebody.
17:39
Speaker 7: What happens if someone like last night out of Berry
17:42
Speaker 7: Springs if somebody happened to be in the bottle shop
17:44
Speaker 7: behind that door when the car come through, is it
17:48
Speaker 7: it's going to end in tragedy.
17:49
Speaker 1: Well, this is the thing. But I think the real
17:52
Speaker 1: sense around the place at the moment is that there's
17:54
Speaker 1: this feeling of lawlessness. You know, when you see vision
17:58
Speaker 1: like that and you see something like that going on,
18:00
Speaker 1: you think to yourself, like, people don't they're not even
18:03
Speaker 1: covering their faces, like they don't even care.
18:05
Speaker 3: And I mean, looking at that vision just before from you, Katie,
18:08
Speaker 3: they're not kids.
18:09
Speaker 6: So it's like there's different issues of crime as well,
18:12
Speaker 6: Like this is obviously the alcohol issue, which we know
18:15
Speaker 6: then does feed into the issue of youth crime, especially
18:19
Speaker 6: if parents aren't being responsible and kids are being left
18:22
Speaker 6: to their own devices. But that vision is just they're
18:27
Speaker 6: clearly adults obviously going to get alcohol.
18:29
Speaker 1: Well, you know, they're rightly asking the question out there today,
18:33
Speaker 1: what on earth is the government doing to address this?
18:35
Speaker 1: And you know LEAs said she doesn't want to hear
18:37
Speaker 1: that it's complex because it's harshit, you know, to put
18:41
Speaker 1: it on they're living through this and they're having to
18:43
Speaker 1: deal with this, and I know that there are a
18:45
Speaker 1: lot of businesses that are feeling that way. You know,
18:48
Speaker 1: we hear all the time there's complexities of the complexness.
18:51
Speaker 1: It's so complex, it's so much like Yeah, I did
18:55
Speaker 1: hear that one as well during the week, and I think,
18:58
Speaker 1: quite frankly, people are just sick of hearing it. They
19:00
Speaker 1: want to they want to know what urgent action is take,
19:04
Speaker 1: is going to be taken in this space. It had
19:05
Speaker 1: even been said to me, you know, treat this in
19:07
Speaker 1: the same way that you treated COVID. Give us, you know,
19:11
Speaker 1: some key indicators of how you're going to gauge whether
19:15
Speaker 1: this is or isn't working, whether the government, you know,
19:17
Speaker 1: the measures that they're taking are actually working. And yep
19:20
Speaker 1: it's alcohol, Yep, there's youth crime. But there is just
19:23
Speaker 1: a sense of lawnlessness around the place.
19:26
Speaker 7: Well, if you look at Alison and I said it
19:28
Speaker 7: in Parliament this week, the place is starting.
19:30
Speaker 2: To look like a wall zone.
19:31
Speaker 7: You've got businesses dropping one ton concrete blocks outside their
19:35
Speaker 7: premises to stop ram raids into the bottle shops, a
19:39
Speaker 7: bakery of all things, like tens of thousands of dollars
19:43
Speaker 7: of damage to a bakery in town with a ram
19:46
Speaker 7: raid to steal fifteen bucks worth of cupcakes.
19:49
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's the point of making bars on the windows
19:53
Speaker 6: and roller doors.
19:54
Speaker 3: They have to have them now they can't not.
19:58
Speaker 1: And look, I know the government made them out earlier
20:00
Speaker 1: in the week saying that they've announced a number of
20:02
Speaker 1: initiatives to further protect victims and businesses from crime and
20:05
Speaker 1: anti social behavior. They'd said, so two million dollars for
20:08
Speaker 1: more support for victims of crime, NT amendments to the
20:12
Speaker 1: Trespass Act. From what I can gather, that's not a
20:15
Speaker 1: bad like. That's actually not a bad thing. It seems
20:17
Speaker 1: as though it will hopefully help. So the government's going
20:19
Speaker 1: to amend the Trespass Act of nineteen seventy eight making
20:22
Speaker 1: the process of issuing and enforcing trespass orders more streamline.
20:27
Speaker 1: And also then biz secure a blitz with ber Secure.
20:31
Speaker 1: So government said that they're going to ramp that up
20:34
Speaker 1: and basically fast track any of the current applications, intensive
20:39
Speaker 1: one on one support for businesses currently trying to put
20:42
Speaker 1: applications through and follow up on business who still haven't
20:45
Speaker 1: finished their application. How are we not doing that already?
20:48
Speaker 1: But that part why is.
20:49
Speaker 2: The owners fall back on business? Katie?
20:51
Speaker 7: Well, why Okay, bi secure is good. It helps businesses
20:54
Speaker 7: maybe stop from being broken into. But let's go back
20:57
Speaker 7: to the rich cause. Let's go back and deal with
20:59
Speaker 7: the criminals. Let's take our streets back. Because at the moment,
21:01
Speaker 7: you're right, it's like lawlessness. People just acting with impunita.
21:06
Speaker 7: They don't care about the lord. They're smashing things, breaking things,
21:09
Speaker 7: assaulting people. It's just it's ongoing. It's relentless, it's not stopping.
21:13
Speaker 2: Let's deal with the crooks. Rather than put the.
21:16
Speaker 7: Owners back on business to make their place look like
21:18
Speaker 7: a prison or a gile or something else, Let's deal
21:22
Speaker 7: with the root cause, which is that the people that
21:25
Speaker 7: are doing these things.
21:27
Speaker 2: Let's take our streets back. Let's get some police on
21:29
Speaker 2: the ground.
21:30
Speaker 7: Doing what they need to do to take out take
21:32
Speaker 7: control of our streets.
21:33
Speaker 5: So I think like, let's just work through this in
21:36
Speaker 5: section basection, we still need people still have to apply
21:40
Speaker 5: for bit secure.
21:40
Speaker 4: We can't just give money willing nelly away. That would
21:44
Speaker 4: be corruption.
21:48
Speaker 1: Striking anything that they're putting through in the space.
21:50
Speaker 5: There's a number of applications that are still we're waiting
21:53
Speaker 5: for some people to finalize those those through Again, we're
21:57
Speaker 5: working with the community and with local councils across the
21:59
Speaker 5: place as well around those crime prevention by design matters,
22:04
Speaker 5: which we will prevent that. But you know, I guess, Katie,
22:07
Speaker 5: when I am out in the community, what I have
22:09
Speaker 5: heard loud and clear from members of the community and
22:12
Speaker 5: organizations and peak groups is that the current system is
22:18
Speaker 5: old and isn't working.
22:20
Speaker 1: Hearing from people that they're fed up with crime.
22:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I.
22:23
Speaker 4: Think that.
22:25
Speaker 2: This is.
22:27
Speaker 4: Cut's away now, you know. I think what we are.
22:31
Speaker 5: Hearing is that the current justice system, the old system
22:33
Speaker 5: isn't working.
22:34
Speaker 1: That's why I that's very different too. Are you hearing
22:36
Speaker 1: from people on the streets right now in your community
22:39
Speaker 1: that they're fed up with crime? Look?
22:41
Speaker 5: I talk to people every day in my community, and
22:44
Speaker 5: what I'm hearing from people in my community is they
22:46
Speaker 5: want to change and that they know that the current
22:49
Speaker 5: justice system. They're not telling you that they're fed up,
22:52
Speaker 5: it's actually working through we need a smarter justice system
22:56
Speaker 5: to create a safer territory.
22:57
Speaker 1: That really interesting that in Central Australia you're not being told.
23:00
Speaker 7: By people people raising crime everywhere I go. It's the
23:04
Speaker 7: first thing ages ago was COVID. The first thing out
23:06
Speaker 7: of people's mouth was COVID. These days, it's just crime
23:09
Speaker 7: every and it's just everywhere you go. It's all people
23:11
Speaker 7: are talking about.
23:13
Speaker 3: Being targeted by vandals.
23:14
Speaker 2: Or your often I think windows.
23:17
Speaker 5: I'm not saying that people are not talking to me about. Absolutely,
23:19
Speaker 5: people talk to me about ways in which we can
23:22
Speaker 5: work together as a community to overcome the challenges that
23:26
Speaker 5: we're faced within our spring.
23:28
Speaker 4: So, I mean, no one's going to deny.
23:29
Speaker 5: That there is work that still needs to be done
23:32
Speaker 5: in addressing anti social behavior in our community, and that
23:35
Speaker 5: needs to be done through a range of things. And
23:39
Speaker 5: you know, it's a community that needs to be worked
23:41
Speaker 5: through together as a community response.
23:44
Speaker 6: You know, part of what you're saying that antisocial word
23:48
Speaker 6: now it's beyond social, it is sure.
23:51
Speaker 1: And look, part of what you're saying, I think is correct.
23:53
Speaker 1: You know, we certainly do need to have we do
23:56
Speaker 1: need to be changing things. We do need to be
23:58
Speaker 1: making sure that when people are going through that system
24:01
Speaker 1: that they're coming out better people, not better criminals. We
24:04
Speaker 1: want to make sure that children don't end up on
24:07
Speaker 1: that path of a downward spiral. But right now, there
24:10
Speaker 1: needs to be like a stop gap. There needs to
24:14
Speaker 1: be a really serious focus on what we're seeing on
24:18
Speaker 1: the streets around Darwin and Alice Springs, Tenant Creek. You know,
24:22
Speaker 1: we caught up with Jared Bourbon earlier in the week
24:25
Speaker 1: in Tenant Creek. He said that they'd had I think
24:27
Speaker 1: it was thirty breakings in the last three months. If
24:29
Speaker 1: I remember correctly, I'll have to go back.
24:31
Speaker 7: To three hundred over period of years from the various
24:34
Speaker 7: family businesses.
24:36
Speaker 1: It's really unsustainable.
24:38
Speaker 2: It's relentless, and that's the problem is it's relentless.
24:41
Speaker 7: And people are starting to normalize this now, which is
24:44
Speaker 7: even more concerning because when you start to normalize crime
24:47
Speaker 7: and normalize some of these issues that we see, then
24:49
Speaker 7: you're on a very very steep downward spiral to.
24:53
Speaker 2: Making it, oh, that's part of every day and it
24:55
Speaker 2: shouldn't be.
24:56
Speaker 5: I think also there are a number of causes of crime,
25:01
Speaker 5: and one of those is that here in the territory
25:04
Speaker 5: there are a significant number of people who live in
25:07
Speaker 5: entrenched poverty. It's a lack of funds, it's a lack
25:12
Speaker 5: of resources, and it's sheer remoteness. And I mean that's
25:15
Speaker 5: a conversation that we need to be having with the
25:17
Speaker 5: common Wealth around lifting people out of poverty. I mean,
25:21
Speaker 5: I spoke to a business owner in Central Australia not
25:24
Speaker 5: long ago who said, I've actually stopped getting the number
25:27
Speaker 5: of break ins that I was because I've started leaving
25:30
Speaker 5: food and soft drink out because I know that these
25:34
Speaker 5: are people who are living below the poverty line.
25:37
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm not saying that that's okay.
25:39
Speaker 5: I'm saying that this is a conversation that we need
25:42
Speaker 5: to be having also with the Commonwealth.
25:44
Speaker 4: I mean the Commonwealth.
25:46
Speaker 5: The common Wealth have also made a commitment I'm hoping
25:48
Speaker 5: is in the October budget around their justice reinvestment, which,
25:53
Speaker 5: as Bill would probably know as well, the Commonwealth made
25:56
Speaker 5: that commitment both sides federally actually leading into the election
26:01
Speaker 5: around a significant funds for Alice Springstown Council to work
26:06
Speaker 5: through that justice reinvestment. So we're waiting to see what
26:09
Speaker 5: that looks like so that we can work with them
26:11
Speaker 5: as well on those causes.
26:13
Speaker 1: All right. One of the other changes that has been
26:15
Speaker 1: announced over the last couple of days, well yesterday, is
26:18
Speaker 1: the Northern Territory governments introducing in forced corrections orders to
26:22
Speaker 1: break the cycle of reoffending. They say prioritizing victim safety
26:26
Speaker 1: support for victims of crime, and also to hold offenders accountable. Now,
26:32
Speaker 1: this goes to changes when it comes to mandatory sentencing.
26:36
Speaker 1: So essentially in some cases from what I can gather,
26:39
Speaker 1: and I'm still very much trying to wrap my head
26:41
Speaker 1: around this and trying to wrap my head around what
26:44
Speaker 1: kind of you know, what kind of sentences we are
26:47
Speaker 1: talking about. But essentially this mandate from today, well you're
26:52
Speaker 1: introduced it into Parliament yesterday, I should say, you're looking
26:55
Speaker 1: to reform mandatory sentencing and mandatory non parole periods for
26:59
Speaker 1: a limited range of offenses, excluding murder, sexual offenses, and
27:03
Speaker 1: assaulting a police officer or an emergency worker. But chancey,
27:08
Speaker 1: what exactly is this going to mean in terms of
27:11
Speaker 1: that mandatory sentencing.
27:12
Speaker 5: Yeah, look, I think this reform is smarter justice for
27:16
Speaker 5: a safer territory. This reform is about stopping that revolving
27:21
Speaker 5: door of reoffending, because what we know is happening out
27:24
Speaker 5: there in the community at the moment is that when
27:27
Speaker 5: people breach one of those particular offenses that we're looking
27:31
Speaker 5: at repealing, is they get sentenced through the mandatory sentencing
27:34
Speaker 5: provisions to go into the big House for a period
27:37
Speaker 5: of time, which often means that they're ineligible to participate
27:41
Speaker 5: in a prison program because they're not there long enough.
27:44
Speaker 4: And in fact, it doesn't.
27:45
Speaker 5: Go to the root cause, which is around addressing the
27:49
Speaker 5: offending behaviors, which then ultimately that person is released. It
27:53
Speaker 5: causes anxiety and we've heard from many people in the
27:56
Speaker 5: DV space it actually perpetuates the cycle of violence because
28:00
Speaker 5: what happens is is that person is in there for
28:03
Speaker 5: a week or three weeks, they get out, they haven't
28:06
Speaker 5: had any behavioral change, they haven't had any training or
28:09
Speaker 5: counseling or anything. Then they just get released, they go
28:12
Speaker 5: back and the cycle continues. In fact, it perpetuates because
28:16
Speaker 5: they've been in their huming that they've been put in there,
28:20
Speaker 5: and the partner is out in the community worried because
28:23
Speaker 5: nothing has gone to address those behaviors.
28:26
Speaker 6: So it was just to wrap my head around it
28:28
Speaker 6: as well, because I'm still working out and obviously the
28:31
Speaker 6: legal system is quite complex and you're getting this advice
28:34
Speaker 6: from the legal society, Why couldn't a judge, you know,
28:38
Speaker 6: if they're going to centen them for a week three
28:40
Speaker 6: weeks a short term program situation imprisonment. Why couldn't they
28:45
Speaker 6: also as part of their release program or part of
28:48
Speaker 6: their sentence, if they're going to get out, sentence them
28:51
Speaker 6: to those programs to do it in the first place,
28:53
Speaker 6: Why do you need to take away that mandatory sentence
28:56
Speaker 6: for reaching that domestic violence?
28:58
Speaker 3: They have to do that not already.
29:00
Speaker 7: A judge can impose those sorts of orders on a sentence.
29:03
Speaker 7: But the problem we face is we don't have the
29:07
Speaker 7: program in capability, particularly in Central Australia, to be able
29:10
Speaker 7: to deal with them just the sheer volume of matters.
29:14
Speaker 7: And I know this piece of legislation really well, and
29:17
Speaker 7: because aid and using corrections, I know what it means.
29:20
Speaker 7: Like I'm the first person to say that throwing people
29:23
Speaker 7: in jail is not the answer. And any other jurisdiction
29:27
Speaker 7: in the country, if you've got sentence to a period
29:28
Speaker 7: of imprisonment under six months, you wouldn't spend it inside
29:31
Speaker 7: of prison, all right, You'd be spending it on a
29:33
Speaker 7: home detention order with orders about undertaking programs and bits
29:37
Speaker 7: and pieces we don't the territory does not have the
29:40
Speaker 7: capacity to do the program. And if you look at
29:42
Speaker 7: and I think it was spoken about Emparliament. Over sixty
29:45
Speaker 7: five percent of the offenders in castidor in there for
29:47
Speaker 7: DV related matters. So you've got to look at what
29:51
Speaker 7: programs were able to provide to deal with those DV
29:55
Speaker 7: issues outside in the community, because at the moment the
29:59
Speaker 7: people are provid in those programs are completely snowed under.
30:02
Speaker 7: There's wait list years long to get onto those things.
30:05
Speaker 7: So it's got to be resource for it to work.
30:08
Speaker 7: For it to work, and look, I hope it works,
30:10
Speaker 7: it's got to be resourced appropriately. Otherwise again, it's.
30:16
Speaker 2: Just not going it's not going to happen. It's not
30:18
Speaker 2: going to solve the problem.
30:18
Speaker 5: Building on, I think as part of these reforms, what
30:21
Speaker 5: we're effectively doing is untying the one hand that's been
30:25
Speaker 5: tied behind a judges back, giving them the power and
30:28
Speaker 5: the discretion to make those sentencing and we're giving judges
30:32
Speaker 5: effectively a menu that when they are looking at sentencing
30:35
Speaker 5: an offender, they have a whole range that still will
30:38
Speaker 5: be an option is absolutely imprisonment, but it will be
30:42
Speaker 5: a whole range of other orders. We are using the
30:46
Speaker 5: power for new sentencing orders which will be accompanied with
30:50
Speaker 5: either a work direction programming. We're working with over the
30:55
Speaker 5: next twelve months. Again, this is the legislation that will
30:57
Speaker 5: pass in November, but again the commencement won't be until
31:00
Speaker 5: a lie as the Attorney General and satisfied that we
31:03
Speaker 5: have the programs in place. And I've said very openly
31:07
Speaker 5: this week that over the next twelve months I'll be
31:11
Speaker 5: working with the DV community, with police, with experts, with
31:16
Speaker 5: victim survivors on the development of programs.
31:20
Speaker 1: Are all of these these programs are obviously not all
31:24
Speaker 1: operational yet, so we're talking about having to get all
31:28
Speaker 1: of these different. You know, for some cases, I'm sure
31:30
Speaker 1: that they are already set up, but we're talking about
31:33
Speaker 1: also having to make sure that all of these programs
31:36
Speaker 1: are set up and we don't actually even know whether
31:39
Speaker 1: they're whether they're going to work, so actually practice in place.
31:45
Speaker 4: I don't agree with that.
31:46
Speaker 5: We had the Northern Territory Law Reform Committee who did
31:50
Speaker 5: the huge volume of work around what will work and
31:53
Speaker 5: what won't, and what we know is that there are
31:56
Speaker 5: outstanding groups in the DV community in that sector who
32:02
Speaker 5: have men's behavioral programs. These are programs that we're going
32:05
Speaker 5: to work with on the expansion because we know that
32:07
Speaker 5: they are working. We know in the alcohol and other
32:10
Speaker 5: drugs there are programs that are working. We need to
32:13
Speaker 5: look at expanding. But also we need to work with
32:15
Speaker 5: health professionals, with police, and with the DV community, because
32:19
Speaker 5: they have asked.
32:20
Speaker 1: So we are stepping out on a limb here, There
32:22
Speaker 1: is no doubt about it. We are stepping out on
32:25
Speaker 1: a limb here. We are making some massive changes, massive
32:28
Speaker 1: legislative changes always set to without there actually you know,
32:32
Speaker 1: without being able to see in some instances whether there's
32:35
Speaker 1: a success rate.
32:36
Speaker 3: Already.
32:36
Speaker 7: You have heard from some of the victims representative groups
32:39
Speaker 7: too that they're not exactly happy about this, because, whether
32:45
Speaker 7: you like it or not, the manatory sentencing stuff does
32:47
Speaker 7: provide that a little bit of a circuit breaker for
32:49
Speaker 7: a victim who's been subject to domestic violence in particular,
32:54
Speaker 7: so it gives them some safety while at person is away.
32:59
Speaker 7: This and this is what the victim representative groups are saying,
33:03
Speaker 7: that all of a sudden, this person, the perpetrator, may
33:06
Speaker 7: be back in that same place with that victim.
33:10
Speaker 2: And I said, it may put that person.
33:12
Speaker 5: In a current form no behavioral training. I'm not interested
33:16
Speaker 5: in giving perpetrators a holiday in prison. I want their
33:19
Speaker 5: behavior changed. I want them to address the appalling behaviors
33:23
Speaker 5: that we're seeing in the territory and addressing those DV rates.
33:26
Speaker 5: We have said with the DV sector they are going
33:29
Speaker 5: to work with us on co design. Now that's a
33:31
Speaker 5: first in the territory. We heard this week in Parliament
33:36
Speaker 5: the Deputy Leader of the Opposition, or the current Deputy
33:39
Speaker 5: Leader of the Opposition, Jared Maylee, talk about basing things
33:44
Speaker 5: on evidence. The evidence around the country is clear that
33:47
Speaker 5: mandatory sentencing is put in place to be a deterrent.
33:51
Speaker 4: Has it deterred. No.
33:52
Speaker 5: You heard Jared Maylee and Bill talk this week that
33:56
Speaker 5: jailing is failing. We need to be smarter about how
34:00
Speaker 5: we address the root causes of people committing crimes and
34:04
Speaker 5: the DV rates that is addressed through addressing this. We
34:08
Speaker 5: know that the evidence nationally and internationally is in program
34:12
Speaker 5: development and we'll be drawing on that expertise around having
34:15
Speaker 5: these conference.
34:17
Speaker 1: We get it right though when it comes to these
34:18
Speaker 1: programs and look, the only thing that I've really got
34:21
Speaker 1: to go on is some of the you know that's
34:23
Speaker 1: stepping away from this mandatory sentencing and stepping back to
34:26
Speaker 1: that youth space. The only thing I've got to go
34:29
Speaker 1: on is, you know, what we've been told about some
34:32
Speaker 1: of those different youth programs over the last five, six, seven,
34:35
Speaker 1: eight years, and you know, and really like the fact
34:39
Speaker 1: that we've still got the youth offending rate that we've
34:42
Speaker 1: got in the Northern Territory indicates to me there's maybe
34:46
Speaker 1: things aren't working as well as they could be. And
34:47
Speaker 1: I know that this is obviously why the government's looking
34:50
Speaker 1: at different changes, but those programs like it's it's really
34:53
Speaker 1: stepping out, I think and putting ourselves, you know, out
34:57
Speaker 1: there hoping these programs will work. But are we putting
35:01
Speaker 1: the cart before the horse? I don't know.
35:03
Speaker 6: And I mean, how much funding is going to go
35:05
Speaker 6: towards these how much funding is required to expand these
35:08
Speaker 6: programs to a level that you need for them to
35:11
Speaker 6: be successful, both in the youth space and the DV
35:14
Speaker 6: space in particular, given that is such an incredibly horrible
35:18
Speaker 6: statistic in how much money are you going to put
35:22
Speaker 6: it towards them which we don't have? So where is
35:25
Speaker 6: it being redirected from?
35:26
Speaker 5: I can tell everyone right now this is a position
35:29
Speaker 5: that the Territory Labor government is wholeheartedly behind. We know
35:34
Speaker 5: that this is the best approach and that this is
35:37
Speaker 5: the best chance we have at addressing these rates.
35:40
Speaker 4: Because these programs.
35:43
Speaker 5: Will cost there will be a lot less zeros on
35:45
Speaker 5: the end of these programs then there will be on
35:47
Speaker 5: building another prison.
35:48
Speaker 4: I would hope.
35:50
Speaker 3: People would like to know what that figure is, and well.
35:53
Speaker 5: I'm not going to give people a figure out because
35:55
Speaker 5: we're doing the development with the sector, with the community
35:57
Speaker 5: to make sure that they are adequately addressed and resourced.
36:02
Speaker 4: And again we are doing this.
36:04
Speaker 5: Based on the expert advice. And we know, Katie, as
36:08
Speaker 5: I've said, people are saying that old system is not working.
36:12
Speaker 5: This is a new way of doing things that's actually
36:14
Speaker 5: going to be a step in the right direction. There
36:17
Speaker 5: is always going to need to be reform work.
36:20
Speaker 6: And so then what is the KPIs that need to
36:23
Speaker 6: be reached. What sort of timeline are you going to
36:25
Speaker 6: follow to be like, yes, this has been a success
36:28
Speaker 6: or in six months time you want to see this
36:30
Speaker 6: drop in it or a year's time or two years time,
36:32
Speaker 6: Because I mean a big part of what in particular
36:35
Speaker 6: from Alice Springs, we person they want an urgent action
36:38
Speaker 6: now and we're hearing a lot about government of medium
36:41
Speaker 6: and long term solutions which one hundred percent everyone really.
36:44
Speaker 3: Hopes work, but at the moment people are struggling to
36:48
Speaker 3: hang in there.
36:48
Speaker 5: There will absolutely we will absolutely be monitoring and evaluating this.
36:55
Speaker 5: This is territory tax payers money. We will be making
36:58
Speaker 5: sure that they have the opportunity to know where it's going.
37:01
Speaker 5: The CELP will have the opportunity through the estimates process
37:04
Speaker 5: as they do, to ask questions if they turn up.
37:07
Speaker 5: So you know, this is important stuff. We've got nothing
37:09
Speaker 5: to hide in this space, and we'll be able to
37:11
Speaker 5: measure that by the number of cases going before courts,
37:15
Speaker 5: the number of our incarceration rates in our territory prisons,
37:19
Speaker 5: but also the number of people participating in these programs
37:22
Speaker 5: and how long and how successful they are when they
37:25
Speaker 5: finish those programs.
37:27
Speaker 1: We're going to have to take a very short break.
37:29
Speaker 1: We are fast running out of time. You're listening to
37:31
Speaker 1: Mix one O four nine's three six ities the week
37:34
Speaker 1: that was. We know that Parliament's sat throughout the week.
37:37
Speaker 1: It's always interesting when parliaments. It's lots of you know,
37:40
Speaker 1: Barb's thrown some interesting comments about Kentucky fried chicken and
37:43
Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff.
37:45
Speaker 3: It's good confidence.
37:49
Speaker 1: Well I'm excited because it'll be hopefully in my area,
37:52
Speaker 1: you know, towards the city to grab a.
37:54
Speaker 7: Bucket, but I have to know all the way out
37:55
Speaker 7: to the Parmesan to get one.
37:58
Speaker 3: Problem.
37:59
Speaker 4: Springs is like the busiest KFC.
38:02
Speaker 5: Yes, Michelin star wows.
38:07
Speaker 1: People love their KFC, no doubt about it. But look,
38:10
Speaker 1: it's not an ad for KFC obviously. Let's still and
38:14
Speaker 1: we do know that the COLP had been at pains
38:18
Speaker 1: to say that they wanted to introduce the legislation on
38:20
Speaker 1: the fuel disclosure bill, but when it was due to happen,
38:23
Speaker 1: well it didn't, and the CLP then appeared to chase
38:27
Speaker 1: their tails and tried to debate the bill. When question
38:31
Speaker 1: time it ended, I believe it was on Wednesday, they.
38:33
Speaker 4: Ran out of fuel.
38:37
Speaker 1: Now, my understanding was to rearrange that general business, a
38:42
Speaker 1: letter had to go to the Speaker's office the day
38:45
Speaker 1: prior bill. Why didn't that happen.
38:47
Speaker 7: We sent a letter to the Speaker's office the day
38:50
Speaker 7: before by all the cross Bench and the Independent saying
38:53
Speaker 7: what we wanted to do. And it's really difficult to
38:55
Speaker 7: explain because you've got to move between what's orders of
38:58
Speaker 7: the day and notices and what we we wanted to
39:00
Speaker 7: talk about fuel and crime because fuel was of course
39:03
Speaker 7: certainly one of the highlights that we needed to do,
39:05
Speaker 7: but crime has been on everybody's lips, so we wanted
39:08
Speaker 7: to do both.
39:08
Speaker 2: Now, the only way that.
39:09
Speaker 7: We could do that is to suspend standing orders, and
39:12
Speaker 7: we need and the government has to agree to suspend
39:15
Speaker 7: standing orders. We did it the day before on Tuesday.
39:18
Speaker 7: We agreed to suspend standing orders so that we could
39:21
Speaker 7: debate the public holiday bill.
39:23
Speaker 2: That's fine.
39:24
Speaker 7: Now if government had have agreed and support us, we
39:26
Speaker 7: could have spoken about fuel on Wednesday, and then once
39:29
Speaker 7: we're done with fuel, we could have moved into crime.
39:31
Speaker 7: Government didn't support suspending standing orders. There's more ways of
39:35
Speaker 7: bringing to do both. We wanted to talk about both,
39:38
Speaker 7: and we didn't get the support from labor.
39:40
Speaker 2: They didn't agree to suspend standing.
39:42
Speaker 1: Orders, and I think they really would.
39:44
Speaker 7: Well, it was interesting because during question time they're all
39:47
Speaker 7: standing up and saying, well, we really want to talk
39:49
Speaker 7: about fuel. I think Evil Lawless says I've got my
39:51
Speaker 7: speech ready, and someone else and we really wanted to
39:53
Speaker 7: debate fuel and then when to finally come to time
39:57
Speaker 7: to actually put the rubber on the road.
39:59
Speaker 5: No, we're not going to We're not going to support
40:03
Speaker 5: the example of a porky pie.
40:06
Speaker 4: We've just heard it now. So Leah has been in
40:10
Speaker 4: the Parliament.
40:10
Speaker 5: For ten years. Bill has been there for two. You
40:13
Speaker 5: don't send a letter to the Speaker. You send it
40:18
Speaker 5: to the Clerk of Parliament, who organizes the procedures. We
40:22
Speaker 5: have this little thing, Katie, it's called Standing Orders Book.
40:25
Speaker 5: It's like the Bible for how parliament works. It sets
40:28
Speaker 5: out how you do it. You could actually still have
40:31
Speaker 5: done both. You could have just noticed that you'd have
40:33
Speaker 5: one notice and then you'd move onto orders of their day.
40:37
Speaker 5: But it appears little Joshy their whip wasn't.
40:40
Speaker 1: On the time you been watching parliament. What did you
40:46
Speaker 1: make of it all?
40:47
Speaker 6: Oh, it's always part of the fun games of parliament.
40:51
Speaker 6: Like you know, the opposition clearly wanted to do fuel
40:54
Speaker 6: and crime and win political points on both, but the
40:57
Speaker 6: government's not going to let them do it. So I mean, really,
41:00
Speaker 6: the CLP could have had the ducks in order and
41:03
Speaker 6: you know that Labor is not going to allow them
41:06
Speaker 6: to go ahead now following correct procedures. So well, it
41:10
Speaker 6: didn't look great because he held a press conference at
41:14
Speaker 6: lunchtime talking about fuel and then when it didn't come.
41:16
Speaker 1: Up to put your fin out, let me have a
41:22
Speaker 1: look at these diesel and unleaded prices while we're talking
41:25
Speaker 1: about this, because front and center all of that whole
41:27
Speaker 1: discussion is the fact that it's bloody expensive at the
41:31
Speaker 1: moment now at the terminal gate today for your petrol
41:34
Speaker 1: here in Darwin, so at the terminal gate for your
41:38
Speaker 1: unlettered it's at a dollar seventy eight. The fairest you'll
41:41
Speaker 1: find it then is a dollar seventy seven. It's then
41:44
Speaker 1: up to a dollar eighty three, a dollar eighty five
41:47
Speaker 1: in some different areas. When you go across and have
41:50
Speaker 1: a look at your diesel prices this morning, well, the
41:53
Speaker 1: terminal gate price for your diesel today is on two
41:55
Speaker 1: dollars twenty seven point nine. That's at the terminal gate.
41:58
Speaker 1: That's astronomical. Then go across to your Bowser well fuel
42:02
Speaker 1: express is still at two dollars fifteen. It then goes
42:05
Speaker 1: up to two dollars twenty five, two dollars twenty nine.
42:08
Speaker 1: I think it's safe to say that we'll expect to
42:10
Speaker 1: see that jump at the Bowser pretty soon it's only
42:14
Speaker 1: going to keep going up.
42:16
Speaker 6: The COLP will again obviously try and bring the fuel
42:19
Speaker 6: bell back when their sittings again starts in November. But
42:23
Speaker 6: what Eva Laula was saying and what she was talking
42:25
Speaker 6: about in terms of after her briefing and seems like
42:28
Speaker 6: the government's not going to support it, which really doesn't
42:31
Speaker 6: come as a surprise to me because the fuel companies
42:35
Speaker 6: aren't going to want to show their profits and that
42:38
Speaker 6: supply chain and how they make their money.
42:40
Speaker 3: Because it is a free market.
42:41
Speaker 1: I do reckon though, that the government should have been
42:43
Speaker 1: stronger on this right from the word go, like essentially said,
42:47
Speaker 1: you know, you need to be fair. I know Luke
42:49
Speaker 1: Gosling came out he was pretty strong on it from
42:51
Speaker 1: the word go, from you know, obviously on that federal scale.
42:56
Speaker 1: But I do think that the government should have come
42:57
Speaker 1: out very strong like Jacindra Adurn did New Zealand and
43:00
Speaker 1: said you need to actually come to the party here
43:03
Speaker 1: and be fair with Territorians. And I know that they
43:07
Speaker 1: did eventually sort of go down that path, but it
43:09
Speaker 1: was sort of too late.
43:10
Speaker 7: It's pretty sad that the opposition had to be driving
43:13
Speaker 7: this and government warned at the end of the day,
43:16
Speaker 7: the government are there to represent territorianes and look after territorians.
43:19
Speaker 7: The one positive out of all this, I think, Katie,
43:21
Speaker 7: is the fact that these discussions have been front and
43:24
Speaker 7: center on both sides now for quite some time, and
43:26
Speaker 7: I think the fewer companies are actually listening to that.
43:28
Speaker 7: And we've actually seen a bit of a reduction in
43:30
Speaker 7: pricing across the territory, so they're probably listening and taking notice.
43:34
Speaker 1: We're going to have to take a really short break
43:40
Speaker 1: pay some bills. When we come back, we will get
43:41
Speaker 1: ready to wrap up for the morning. You are listening
43:43
Speaker 1: to Mix one O four nine's three sixty. It is
43:45
Speaker 1: the week that was Well, that is pretty much it
43:48
Speaker 1: for us this morning. And Bill Yan, a big thank
43:50
Speaker 1: you to you for your time this morning.
43:52
Speaker 7: Thanks Katie, great to be here, and of course Mental
43:54
Speaker 7: Health Month this month. Then there's the walk on Sunday
43:58
Speaker 7: morning up here in Darwin, so everyone to get down
44:01
Speaker 7: for that and support mental Health Month.
44:03
Speaker 2: Great to do a great course.
44:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, Kathleen Gazola from nine News Darwin, thank you
44:09
Speaker 1: for your time this morning. Thank you going out fishing
44:12
Speaker 1: this weekend, are you yep?
44:13
Speaker 3: Having a weekend away.
44:14
Speaker 1: Good stuff. Good on you, Chancey Pig, Thank you so
44:17
Speaker 1: much for your time this morning.
44:18
Speaker 4: Thanks Katie, Thanks everyone listening. Have a good weekend.
44:21
Speaker 5: Go and check out those amazing art galleries and museums
44:24
Speaker 5: across the territory.
44:25
Speaker 1: Wonderful stuff. Well, thank you all so much for your
44:27
Speaker 1: time