Transcript

Acts of God · United We Scan

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Hey, welcome to the United We Scan podcast.
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Just a quick disclaimer here that any of the views and
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opinions expressed by the individuals are not that of the
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USPS or the NRLCA. This podcast is for
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entertainment purposes only and if you are in need of any
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assistance, please contact your designated union representative.
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Thank you. Welcome back, everybody.
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Where are we at Episode 147 tonight?
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We're going to cover acts of God and whatever else we can tie in
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with that. As we all know, this crazy
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weather that is hitting many, many, many areas of the country.
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On that note, Josh, how's been your last couple of weeks?
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They've been. Last weekend we had 1/2 inch of
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ice come down over the weekend. This weekend we had about a foot
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of snow. So lovely.
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I'm in the Carolinas and the sun comes out and it melts most of
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everything pretty quickly. So we don't have snow on top of
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ice like you would normally like you would get in your area.
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But other than that, it's been a week or two.
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That was your past couple weeks. Oh, my last couple weeks have
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been OK. We haven't had that bad of
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weather here, thankfully. It's been cold and I know it's
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been cold enough, like scary, scary cold and scary, scary
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weather in a lot of the country. But thankfully it's not been too
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bad here. SAC, I was supposed to go to
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SAC, the South Atlanta Conference, but it got cancelled
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and I had actually cancelled my, the airport is about an hour
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away from here and I ended up canceling my plane tickets
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because it was, it was, which was like right before I think it
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got cancelled. So that was a little bit of a
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bummer, but it's better that we're all all safe.
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And that was a little crazy with all of that.
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But I had a shadow. I had a new sub shadow with me
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the other day, which is good. But also it's you never know
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what you're going to expect with that.
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But other than that, I mean, it's been just working and and
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chilling. So how have you been, Kristen?
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It's been a whirlwind couple of weeks for me.
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I I'll save the sob story till till the end.
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So I don't want to get off on a too much of A somber sad note.
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But I did my four days of first four days of the next step in
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my, my next hat I'm wearing. And that was actually really
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good. And it was, it was fun.
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So I think I'm, once I get through the next couple steps of
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training, I'm really going to enjoy what I'll be doing.
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And well, then I was off again this past week.
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And yeah, it's been, it's been a rough week.
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I, I, I'm looking forward to going back to work tomorrow, but
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I'm not, I mean, it's been a couple of weeks since I've been
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on my route. So I'm looking forward to
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getting in there and see what's going on.
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But at the same time, I, I don't know if I'm ready, ready to go
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back to work yet, but I have to at least hopefully for three, a
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few days, 3 minimum. Depends.
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I'll look at schedule when I get it in the morning if there's
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coverage for the end of the week.
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But other than that, let's go on.
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Of course, we've been having these massive acts of God going
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on across the country. I can relate with the bitter
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coldness and the wind chills and the negative temperatures and
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even colder negative wind chills and snow and icy conditions.
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And it has just been making it not the greatest.
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And I know Josh got dumped with snow in an area that normally
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doesn't see much of anything, maybe a dusting once in a while.
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So. Yep.
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Yeah, well, as a as someone put it, we're used to getting the
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team a winner, not a real winner.
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Yeah. Earlier, but I was before we get
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into that, you know, Speaking of sack, if anyone of our listeners
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was interested, they did reschedule it or I believe it's
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February 28th through March 2nd good to.
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Know still won't be able to make it.
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It's still going to be at the Cherokee.
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Well, I'm just throwing any information out there for I
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won't be able to make it because I already had plans that.
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Yeah, I haven't seen anything officially released on the
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rescheduled dates yet, but I'm sure that's coming.
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Yeah, and they'll put it out on the NRLCA website.
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Absolutely. For the official, official all.
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Right, you got that info there for us meow?
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Yes, I do. So I just wanted to start out by
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saying, I know we wanted to do this a couple weeks ago, like
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just because of the weather and everything too.
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But obviously, like, I mean, we've all had a lot of things
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going on, but it's, it's very prevalent.
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And I, it doesn't necessarily acts of God don't necessarily
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need to be a snowstorm. It could be flooding, it could
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be hurricanes, it could be, you know, there's different
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scenarios that wildfires, there could be different things that
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fall under this umbrella. And so some of the language that
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I'm going to read is a little bit vague, but we can go into a
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little bit more of it after. So in Elm section 519.21, Acts
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of God, general acts of God involved community disasters
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such as fire, flood or storms. The disaster situation must be
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general rather than personal in scope and impact.
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It must prevent groups of employees from working or
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reporting to work. Elm section 519 two .212
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Authorizing administrative leave for acts of God The following
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provisions must The following provisions concern
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administrative leave for acts of God.
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A Postmasters and under other installation heads have a
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authority to approve administrative leave for up to
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one day. B District managers and postal
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career executive service. P CES plant managers may
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authorize administrative leave beyond one day, but not to
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exceed a total of three days for their installation and those
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reporting to it. C District managers and senior
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or lead plant managers may approve administrative leave for
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periods up to and in excess of three days for their
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installation and those reporting to it.
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Elm Section 519.213 Determining the cause of absence.
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Postmasters and other appropriate post officials
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determine whether absences from duty allegedly due to acts of
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God were in fact due to such cause or whether the employee or
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employees in question could, with reasonable diligence, have
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reported for duty. Elm Section 519.214 Early
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dismissal due to acts of God When employees are dismissed
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from duty before the normal completion of their duty due to
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an act of God, the following applies.
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A Full Time employees are entitled to credit for hours
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worked plus enough administrative leave to complete
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their tour of duty. This combination of work and
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leave is not to exceed 8 hours in any one day.
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B Part time. Regular employees are entitled
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to credit for hours worked plus enough administrative leave to
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complete their scheduled hours of duty.
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This combination of work and and leave is not to exceed 8 hours
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in any one day and C Part time flexible employees are entitled
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to credit for hours worked plus enough administrative leave to
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complete their scheduled tour. The combination of straight time
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worked and administrative leave must not exceed 8 hours in a
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service day. If there is a question as to the
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scheduled work hours, the part time flexible employee is
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entitled to the greater of the following the number of hours
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the part time flexible worked on the service day in the previous
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service week to the number of hours the part time flexible was
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scheduled to work and three the guaranteed hours as provided in
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the applicable national agreement.
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Employees prevented from reporting.
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Employees scheduled to report are are prevented from
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reporting. Employees scheduled to report
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are prevented from reporting or who have reporting are prevented
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from working by an act of God may be excused as follows.
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A. Part time, full time and part
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time regular employees receive administrative to cover their
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scheduled tour of duty. Do not exceed 8 hours.
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B Part time flexible employees receive administrative leave
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subject to the 8 hour limitation for their scheduled work hours
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as provided in Elm section 519.214.
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C Employees on annual leave and sick leave or ELWOP.
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Employees on annual leave, sick leave or ELWOP remain in such
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status. They are not entitled to
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administrative leave and then Elm section 519.217.
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Substitute rule carriers and rule carrier associates.
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Substitute rule carriers and RC as in a leave earning status are
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treated same as rule carriers if they are scheduled for duty and
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are unable to report to the postal installation.
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Administrative leave is granted for the full day that the
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employees are scheduled to service to serve their routes.
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No equipment maintenance allowed.
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Allowance is paid and B If employees are scheduled for duty
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and reports the postal insulation but are unable to
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serve all or part of their routes, though through no fault
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of their own, they may be granted administrative leave for
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the remainder of the normal tour of duty for that day.
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Payment for equipment maintenance allowance is made if
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appropriate, because employees are considered to be in a duty
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status now. There's also Elm language about
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civil disorders and I might read that later on because that might
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actually I'm like, Dang, I haven't read that in a while.
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Let's go into other parts of the but anyways, and the next part
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I'm going to read is Article 30.1 dot H of the National
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Agreement for real carriers. The contract and it is acts of
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God. When acts of God prevent an
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employee from performing employees duty, the employer may
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authorize administrative leave and equipment maintenance
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allowance will be paid for each service day a rule carrier
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reports to the post office and is scheduled to perform
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delivery. If the carrier fails to serve
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all or any portion of the route due to lack of proper endeavor
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or any failure for which the carrier is responsible,
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appropriate deductions from salary and equipment maintenance
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allowance will be made based on miles omitted.
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So lots of reading there. The gist of it basically is that
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you, you're going to see a lot of people online going, hey, we
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have a snowstorm. You know what's going on.
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Why isn't the post office shut down?
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And you know, I know we have the the motto rain, snow, sleet,
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shine, tornado, wildfires or whatever, you us as postal
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employees have an obligation to attempt to make it to work.
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But in an act of God situation, you know, there might be there's
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different circumstances that can result.
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So let's say they, the governor shut down all of the state or
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shut down the, the highways, the main artery roads that could be
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considered with it. And or you know, if there's feet
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of snow and none of the roads are passable and you go outside
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and you can't even see your car and you know, it just it, it
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depends upon your area and the scenario that you're in.
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If it's, for instance, we had a, we had flooding here and it
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turned into an act of God situation here because the
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rivers were flooding and the, the canals surrounding the post
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office were also flooding. So you had to, you couldn't, if
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you went on one side of it, you couldn't access and get to the
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other side. And so that ended up becoming an
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act of God scenario. But the main thing is you make
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an attempt. If it's not safe, you're the one
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who makes that determination of of your own safety.
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But if if it's truly an act of God, you're typically you can
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you know, you'll see the weather reports if a governor declared
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state of emergency if your state's public transportation or
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the what is it? The Department of Motor Vehicles
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and Road Maintenance has determined you know that there's
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no safe, passable ways to get our job done to get the mail
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delivered to for you to safely get to work.
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Typically those are scenarios that would become act of God.
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Do you guys want to chime in at all?
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Because they're all. Quiet.
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You know, Josh, getting 11 inches of snow in Charlotte, NC,
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is completely different than me getting 11 inches of snow in
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northeastern Michigan. Yes, number one, we have the
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road cruise. It just depends.
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We we we have the plow services for Charlotte NC does not.
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No, we have them. But not in the abundance like we
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do. They don't, right?
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Like I know now, like back home where my parents are in
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Pennsylvania, they get Rd. Down here, they just get the
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main roads. So like the back Rd. like you
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said, the back roads, the neighborhoods, it's up to the
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individual neighborhood take care of that.
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And like I know in mine they don't and.
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Whereas you know with mine. You know, and it's supposed to
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be in the single digits. The temperature is supposed to
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dip to low teens or single digits overnight tonight in
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early tomorrow morning. So in the morning on the way to
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work, I'm looking at black ice versus, you know, even if they
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did plow and salt once I get off, you know, once I get off
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my, you know, St. on the main Rd.
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And salt doesn't always work on those low temperatures either.
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No, right? And and another, you know, and
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that's like. In.
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In my neck of the woods, when we get, you know, a snowstorm like
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that, it's they're, they're continuously out for 24 hours
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doing the main roads and the state highways, the federal
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highways, stuff like that. And then once it clears up,
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because usually at that point schools are closed.
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And then once they get those down to where they need to be
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kept up, then they'll do the side streets and, and, and
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whatnot. But usually when there's no
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school, you know, my side streets don't get touched until
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the next day. But yeah, I mean, it's
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completely different scenario, completely different parts of
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the country. So where it may be an act of God
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in your area and us, that's just another winter day.
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So then the the second. Part of this.
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OK, I'll let you finish. Sorry, Josh.
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Or say, as someone in the audience who pointed out, our
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district manager has already stated, he is not authorizing
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adamantly. Yeah, I.
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You either show work where you don't pay.
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Or you're going to use some of your leave.
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Yep. Yeah.
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But the but I mean in in those scenarios it it depends upon
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like a case by case area. You know, if, and I'm going to
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use this as an example, there has been a time in because in my
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state it could snow varying levels in a couple miles apart.
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It can, it can be sporadic, it can be random.
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There was one time, because my city has two stations, it has a
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main office and A and a station. And there was one time we all
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went to work to deliver in at my station and my postmaster would
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not let us deliver because the trees were breaking and it was
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like surround like she didn't want any of the city carriers or
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the high mileage routes out there.
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But the main office still delivered and and the difference
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in snow was like a foot. So it's it can, it can vary even
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on that degree. So that's why if there's a
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scenario where there's issue with the because what I read in
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that Elm is a postmaster has the ability to pay that
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administrative leave and they can go out on a limb and do
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that. But if there's ever an issue
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with it, then it can become a grievable issue.
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And I would just, I would you would, you can take pictures,
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you can save text messages from managers.
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You can get the news reports, you can get the, what is it, the
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National Weather Service alerts. There's a lot of things that you
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can use to justify you guys having an act of God scenario
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that could help your steward in the grievance process with it.
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It just depends upon your area and and that scenario.
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We've had it a couple times where almost I think only like 3
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of us showed up and everybody else like didn't.
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And so sometimes like management will weigh out that.
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And I don't necessarily know if I agree with that completely.
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It just depends on the severity of the storm or whatever is
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going on. But and everybody else that
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didn't show up did get active God pay.
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So and the and the people who did show up didn't go deliver.
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They sent them home. And so there's different levels
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of things that can happen there. Now the other part of what I was
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reading is let's say that there is an act of God, somewhat of an
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act of God scenario and carriers show up to work.
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You, if you show up to work and there's like, let's say there's
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issues with mail coming from the plant to your office there,
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there none of the clerks were there.
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Management just wants you to case and go home and or, you
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know, there's different levelling degrees of things that
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could happen If you show up to work, you you're still clocking
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in on the scanner for the RX scan and you're still signing
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that trip sheet. So management has to pay you for
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showing up and you know, let's say that it's a, there's, you
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know, let's say management says, hey, all we have is DPS and a
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couple parcels go out and deliver what you can and you go
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out and you're the one who makes that determination.
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If there's roads that aren't passable, then you don't go
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there. I mean, that's, I mean, it's,
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you know, what's going to be safest for you out there on the
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route and you're the one who has to ultimately make that call.
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I ever wrote on my route personally that if it snows a
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couple at like 5 or more inches, I cannot get through on it.
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And there's one of the guys, he will actually plow it now pretty
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regularly because he's had to push me out a few times.
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But you're the one who knows your route.
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You're I mean, if if you're a sub and you look at something
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and it doesn't look like it's safe, you're the one who needs
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to make that call. And then, you know, to scan
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things, you know, either weather delay or no access to determine
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on what your management has instructed you guys for.
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But but yeah, I mean, if, if management, you know, let's say
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you have no mail and they just want you to go drive your route
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to check for outgoing mail. We've had that happen before.
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And there was parks my route, I again couldn't get to.
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And I came back and I said, hey, I couldn't drive down this road.
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I couldn't, I have a mattress. I don't have chains.
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And it wasn't safe for me to go down that road.
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You know, it's, it's, it's up to you to make that call.
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But the biggest thing like I, I guess that I like as a sub that
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I had to learn was just be ready for it because I guess we are
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mail carriers. But if if it's not safe to
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proceed, you're the one who has to be the one to make that call.
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Yep. And then that's true because
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I've I'm. Trying to there's like.
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I've had a couple scenarios at my old office.
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We got 18 inches of snow overnight one night and I
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shoveled my car out and I drove around the corner to the office
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and cased up my mail, loaded up my car, got 7 boxes delivered
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that day because after that not a single Rd. was touched and I
23:30
called him and said not doing it.
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Coming back, I was the first one out of the office, the first one
23:34
back, a few others went basically out and went around
23:38
the corner and came back in. We had one that couldn't even
23:41
the carrier couldn't even get into the office and it still
23:44
ended up putting a full day in because we have those, a few of
23:48
us Subs that were still around. We hopped over to that other
23:50
route to case up the mail and scan the packages and
23:53
everything. So I mean, they're so if they
23:56
don't send you home and you know, mail has came in or
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there's mail there packages, you know, you're still, especially
24:02
as a sub, I mean, you could still put some time in by casing
24:06
up the routes that way they're ready to go by the time, you
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know, the next time come in. I've had an instance to where we
24:12
had an ice storm in my office several years ago.
24:16
I went out on the route. I mean, roads weren't snow
24:19
covered, but it was raining ice. And when you're driving barely 5
24:23
miles an hour, so you're hopefully you can stop at a box
24:27
if you'd still don't slide past it.
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You know, mirrors are iced up, windshield wipers are iced up.
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And at that point, you know those.
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And then we were on the routes the furthest from the office
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and, you know, we were like all back to the office.
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And of course we got crap back from the postmaster.
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So, you know, of course, I called my, my ADR at the time
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and they're like, no, safety is your call.
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So I was at the RMPO office trying to scan all the packages
24:56
because there was no way in heck I was going to risk my life out
25:00
on a sheet of ice. And I took me quite a bit to get
25:03
home. I had another instance, you
25:06
know, out on the other route that the big long one that does
25:10
get more snow than what we get in town here and I was pushing
25:14
snow with my bumper and I told her.
25:15
I said I can't do this anymore. I've already been stuck.
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I'm coming back. Course I got resistance, but I
25:22
said I don't care. And what normally would have
25:25
took, I don't know, 1520 minutes to get from the point where I
25:28
turned around to a different point on the route.
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It took me over 45 minutes to get there and I still had
25:35
another 8 miles. Your drive back to the office.
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So yeah, I mean, it really is your call for safety.
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And if it's not going to be safe for you and you're not
25:45
comfortable with it, it's your call.
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Yeah, and I guess I mean it like I was saying like I'm, I'm, I'm
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not saying make it rain admin days.
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And I know there's some people out there who think, you know,
25:56
that there should be a, a giant step forward grievance filed for
26:01
the whole country, but it's very specific to the area that you're
26:05
in and the situation. But if, if the managers aren't
26:09
making the managers also have an obligation to make sure that we
26:13
are safe and you know, we have some gold, like I'll call them
26:18
the golden managers. I mean, my, me and my old
26:20
postmaster, we would go at it, but she's called it a couple of
26:24
times and was like, I am not sending them out there.
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Like there's one of our routes goes 85 miles and it we,
26:33
there's, we have a lot of hail damage that'll happen here at
26:37
random. And we've had tornado warnings
26:40
and there was one time like my scanner was beeping and going
26:45
off and I was like, Oh my God. So there's different things that
26:49
could occur. But I, I think that in this
26:56
scenario, I think that there's been a lot of scenario.
26:58
I'm not saying make it rain admin days, but I think that
27:02
there's been I think the Postal Service, I guess gets really
27:06
defensive over it, but ultimately, like you, when you
27:12
show up on the some of those days that are like borderline,
27:17
they're looking at you like, why are you here?
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Sometimes, you know, and it's like, well, because you got to
27:24
get this stuff and I, you know, we took the oath to make sure
27:28
things get delivered. And you know, I, I understand
27:32
like the severity, like it's important for us to the, to get
27:37
the items to the customers. But if it's risking our safety,
27:41
if it's risking our safety to even get to the office, if it's,
27:45
I mean, and even some of the managers too, you know, I've,
27:51
I've even a couple times where I knew it was going to snow pretty
27:55
severely. I shoveled my driveway like a
27:59
little like at night off and on so that I was going to be able
28:03
to get my car out and I backed it in a couple times so that I,
28:08
I was able to just like gun it and get out instead of me
28:11
backing out. So there's things like that that
28:15
I've done and I've even like taken pictures of those and
28:20
being like, look like I'm stuck here on down the street from my
28:25
house trying to get to work and I can't.
28:28
And I, you know, that's that's where it comes into, you know,
28:33
the managers and your postmasters should know the area
28:37
and determine, you know, like, hey, this is an act of God.
28:42
But there is also a couple if you go on to the steward
28:47
reference guide on the NRLC website.
28:49
There is also like this is from what is this.
28:55
This is administrative leave due to acts of God and it has like
29:01
references to the articles in it and I did not read this so the
29:05
PO6O3 section 142.11 in part when acts of God prevent you
29:11
from performing your duties, the postmaster may authorize
29:14
administrative leave. You'll receive EMA for each
29:17
service day that you report to the post office and are
29:19
scheduled to perform delivery and then Section 141.12
29:23
Exceptions if the route is 1 in which the USPS owned or leased
29:27
vehicle is regularly assigned or used on a test or emergency
29:31
basis. You will not receive AMA for the
29:33
days that the USPS vehicle is used.
29:37
And then oh, if you Section 142.122.
29:43
If you fail to serve any part of your route due to a lack of
29:47
proper endeavour, proper equipment, or other failure for
29:50
which you're responsible, deductions may be made from your
29:52
salary for EMA. For partial failure, deductions
29:55
are made at the rate of pay per mile for services on routes of
29:59
30 miles or less. For failure to perform services
30:01
on the route on your route over 30 miles, deductions are made at
30:05
the rate of pay for such additional mileage.
30:09
Excuse me and then PO6O3 section 15152.1 you a work schedule.
30:17
You must report report to the post office as scheduled without
30:21
regard to weather conditions and must make every effort to
30:24
perform full service. So again, it's just reiterating
30:29
like you're making the attempts and if you, if it's something
30:34
like, you know, the like the let's say they called in the
30:37
National Guard and they have the National Guard shutting down
30:40
roads because it's so bad, you know, there's scenarios like
30:45
that. So what is the meaning of the on
30:50
provision as it pertains to community disasters And what is
30:53
the length of the storm, the wind strength and temperature?
30:56
Do these conditions create disaster conditions?
30:59
Usually in the situation of a hurricane, tornado or snow
31:02
storm, etcetera? It does not create the same
31:04
conditions in all areas. There are phase insurance and
31:08
phase outs in most natural disasters.
31:10
Whatever the 'cause it usually must create a community
31:14
disaster. Further, it must be general in
31:17
nature and not of personal nature in scope and impact.
31:22
Additionally, it must prevent groups of employees from working
31:26
or reporting to work. Was the entire area shut down
31:29
except for police and hospitals? Have the police warned everyone
31:33
to stay off the roads and at home?
31:35
So again, like that's like what I was saying.
31:37
Like if it's the governor declare state of emergencies and
31:42
you know, they have the National Guard or police blocking roads
31:45
because they don't want anybody traveling, newspaper articles,
31:49
affidavits or statements from medical any of the storm will
31:54
assist the case file. So if you end up having to file
31:58
agreements against not being paid Act of God administrative
32:04
pay, that would be things that you need to include to help your
32:09
steward. If people were stranded in their
32:12
vehicles or slept in their cars due to impassable roads, to what
32:15
extent was this common knowledge in the area?
32:18
Such language as poor weather, difficult conditions or bad
32:21
conditions are at most times insufficient in constituting a
32:26
disaster. When the focus shifts to the
32:29
scope of the storm being general in nature, questions similar to
32:34
the following. You're asked how many employees
32:36
in this facility were unable to report to work due to the
32:39
disaster and what was the pattern of other industries
32:43
nearby. And I'll just, I'm just going
32:46
to, I'm going to read this after.
32:47
But the school's being shut down, businesses being shut
32:51
down, you know, if the the Waffle House is the Waffle House
32:54
shut down, you know, things like that, that could play into a
32:59
factor here. But how many, how many employees
33:02
in this facility were unable to purport to work through the
33:05
disaster? And what was the pattern of
33:06
other industries nearby? A better case can be built for
33:10
administrative leave when employees from a large general
33:13
area and numerous work sites are enabled to report to work,
33:17
rather than a large number of employees from one specific work
33:20
location. If information can be gathered
33:24
and indicated on a map, the locations of large numbers being
33:29
unable to report in various work, various work sites will
33:33
assist case of this type. If a carrier lives a substantial
33:38
different distance from the main road and is unable to report to
33:42
work, but other employees from a general area are able to report
33:46
to work, arbitrators tend to view this as personal in nature
33:50
rather than general in nature. The employer is not responsible
33:54
for where you live. As to the relevancy of reaching
33:57
a main highway in order to work to report to work, arbitrators
34:02
tend to not require the post office to be closed in order to
34:06
deny acts of God Leave. How do arbitrators look at
34:10
groups of employees? Arbitrators tend to differ on
34:14
what constitutes group. The Elm does not set forth any
34:18
number for which administrative leave will be granted.
34:22
If a group of postal employees live in the same general area
34:25
and most of them were unable to work, report to work, the
34:29
arbitrator would most likely be sensitive when compared to
34:33
having a few employees live in a different area that may equally
34:36
may be equally impacted in their ability to arrive to work.
34:40
How can arbitrator determine reasonable diligence when there
34:44
are so many variables involved? So, and I'll read that in a
34:48
second. That's kind of why I was like,
34:50
you know, I wanted to do the generalized scope of it, like it
34:54
seriously depends upon the area that you're in.
34:57
But so first, management must weigh the amount of reasonable
35:01
diligence that an employee or employees exercise in any given
35:05
location. Testimony and affidavits on
35:08
behalf of an individual's reasonable diligence must be
35:11
submitted in the grievance file in order to have a case for
35:15
sustaining administrative leave. Employees must furnish proof of
35:18
such an effort on their own behalf in order to assist their
35:23
case. If two employees lived in the
35:26
same general area and one had a four wheel drive vehicle and the
35:30
other did not, it would be incumbent upon the individual
35:34
without the four wheel drive vehicle to show that he had no
35:37
other alternative means for arriving at work.
35:40
In summary, most arbitrators are reluctant to second guess
35:44
management's discretion and granting administrative leave
35:47
for severe storms or natural disasters.
35:50
The language states the employer may authorize.
35:53
It does not state shall authorized administrative leave
35:56
if carriers feel that they are unfairly denied administrative
36:01
leave under these conditions, the Union must usually be able
36:05
to show that all the criteria listed in Section 519.211
36:12
existed and that the carrier did not indeed exercise reasonable
36:16
diligence in trying to report to work and that management was
36:19
arbitrary and capricious in denying administrative leave.
36:24
So hence why I, you know, like I had the scenario where I figured
36:31
it was going to end up becoming an act of God scenario.
36:33
And so like, that's why I plowed and tried to, I guess I made the
36:40
attempt and I act, I took pictures of my vehicle stuck
36:46
down the street. And you know, there's other
36:51
people that live closer to the office that also couldn't even
36:56
get to work because I only live like 10 minutes from my office.
37:00
But I have another person that I know that live, that works at my
37:03
office, that lives in the mountains.
37:07
And usually it snows a lot more over there.
37:09
And So what she'll do sometimes is she'll stay in town if it's
37:13
like that, like she'll try and find somebody to stay in town
37:18
with because she knows that she won't be able to make it.
37:23
And I'm not saying that everybody has that ability
37:26
either. You just need to try and make a
37:28
reasonable effort to get to work.
37:31
And if if there is an act of God that does not let you, then you
37:36
should be asking for that administrative leave.
37:39
So that kind of summarize it, trying to think that I miss
37:42
anything with. No, I think that.
37:44
They lose everybody. I'm here.
37:48
Yeah, OK. There's also some Step 4
37:54
grievance settlements on there. I think they're more specific to
37:57
scenarios. I'm trying to think if I knew
38:00
that that document, they're kind of said a lot of it.
38:04
This one is, oh, this is like a denied grievance from 1975.
38:14
Notwithstanding our position of untimeliness, there is no
38:18
justification for granting administrative leave for March
38:22
28th, 1975. Only seven of the approximately
38:25
90 employees scheduled for duty failed to report.
38:28
Additionally, the national agreement does not require
38:31
management to authorize administrative leave, which it
38:34
says they may, which I don't like.
38:36
I wish I just said that they did, but in this one it got
38:39
denied because seven only seven of the 90 employees didn't make
38:45
it This one more recent. Hello.
38:55
The parties agree if a rule carrier reports to work on their
38:58
relief day but is not able to come.
39:01
Oh, this is like if you were called in and then they need to
39:06
pay you if you came in on your relief day.
39:09
The parties agree if a role carrier reports to work on their
39:11
relief day but is not able to complete their normal duties to
39:15
to an act of God, a full day's compensation is provided to
39:18
include equipment maintenance allowance of applicable.
39:21
For example, if a decision is made to curtail mail delivery
39:24
after the regular will carrier cases for two hours, DACA 3 or 5
39:29
is recorded on PS Form 1314 as appropriate and compensation is
39:33
provided for a full day. So again, you showed up, it was
39:39
your relief day. They still got to pay you.
39:41
That DACA 3 or 5 and that one's from 2019.
39:45
That was actually a pretty good one.
39:46
This one is 1996. The issue in this grievance is
39:53
whether the grievant was properly denied.
39:56
Act of God Administrative leave 519.211 of the employee Labor
40:01
Relations defines Act of God as a disaster situation that must
40:05
be general rather than personal in scope and impact.
40:08
It must prevent groups of. Of employees from working or
40:11
reporting to work. In the instant case, only two
40:14
employees were unable to report for duty, which over 100
40:18
employees reported as scheduled. Clearly the facts in the instant
40:21
case does not meet the Elm criteria for active God
40:24
administrative leave. And that one is from 1986, this
40:28
one this one is from 1981. And the Postal Service takes a
40:36
very strict and narrow view of such act of God and that they
40:40
must be general rather than personal in scope and impact.
40:44
On the days in question, only three out of 32 employees failed
40:48
to report on June 16th and six out of 32 failed to report on
40:53
June 17th. Maps included in the file show
40:55
that the employees did not employees not reporting were not
40:59
grouped together, but in fact lived among those who did
41:02
report. So in this scenario, according
41:05
we find no violation of the national agreement, this
41:08
grievance is denied. So you know, let's say that like
41:12
you know, that you live near a couple other people and none of
41:17
you made it in. You know what, there's there's
41:20
facts circumstances in there too.
41:22
You know, if the corks aren't showing up either, the city
41:25
carriers, the managers and the rule carriers, typically, you
41:29
know, it's in those scenarios. Yeah, it's, it's probably going
41:34
to be more of an act of God. You just have to weigh all of
41:37
the things in that in those instances.
41:43
Ramble, ramble. I should drink some water.
41:47
Sorry. Some of those, those grievance
41:49
settlements weren't great, but they, they still, like, lay it
41:53
out. Like, yeah, they still lay it
41:56
out though, because you know, like in like tomorrow, in Josh's
42:01
scenario, I, I don't, I mean, is it gonna, are you gonna be able
42:05
to make it to work tomorrow, Josh?
42:07
I probably, it's gonna take me longer, but I probably will be
42:12
able to make it. I'm more worried about.
42:14
But if it's morning. Tomorrow, then getting home.
42:16
Yeah, but let's say that it like snowed and let's see it snowed
42:20
another foot. Then I probably would not be
42:22
able to make it. Yeah, like if it started snowing
42:26
again tonight and I woke up to another point, probably would
42:30
not be able to, Yeah. Yeah, yeah, but I doubt your
42:33
supervisors and everybody else could.
42:37
Oh, for another foot of snow. I think I've had it here where
42:41
we've had two for sure. And one of those two, I had a
42:47
grieve, but most of us in the office couldn't make it.
42:52
It was more than half. And so we were successful in it.
42:55
But there's also been times, like I said, where I've gone in
43:00
and my postmaster called it and said we're not going out to the
43:02
liver or I've gone out and I got like to the beginning of my
43:09
route. And you know, it wasn't
43:13
necessarily an act of God scenario, but I got out to my
43:15
route and this, no, it wasn't snowing, but it had snowed the
43:21
day before and it was windy and all the snow was drifting onto
43:25
the road and the plows couldn't keep up.
43:28
And I just, I was like, I can't even see out here.
43:31
And I got to like one point and I just turned back and went to
43:34
the back to the office and I was like, I'm not delivering.
43:38
There's no way. I can't even see the road.
43:40
I can't even see the mailboxes. Like, how am I supposed to
43:44
deliver out here? But there's been other times
43:47
too, where like, I felt like I was safe to go out and deliver
43:52
and cased and went out and then my manager called it and I was
43:58
at the gas station filling up to go deliver and we all came back.
44:04
So, you know, there's different levels, I guess to it and
44:09
figuring it out. You know, you know, in Florida,
44:13
for instance, I know that there's been a lot of hurricanes
44:18
and I would assume, I mean, I'm not, I'm not in Florida, but I
44:23
know that there's been like post offices that were taken out.
44:27
Weren't, isn't there in those areas surrounding the coast and
44:32
or even in in Los Angeles where the fires were burning
44:40
surrounding a post office. We we've had it here even where
44:44
there was a fire up in the mountains and it did it.
44:49
The fire burned right up to the perimeter of the post office,
44:54
like right pretty close to it. But it's a it's like APO box.
44:59
It's not a delivery one, but I remember thinking I was like,
45:03
well, at least like those clerks in the postmaster that work
45:07
there, can't they? They had all the road shut down
45:11
to access it. Like there's nobody that could
45:14
get to the building other than emergency personnel.
45:17
Like you could see the fire from it was right there, you know,
45:21
out the window. So in those circums, but it's it
45:25
just depends or you know, let's say maybe it's a tornado took
45:31
the post office out or was I mean, there's there's things
45:35
like that or the flooding and if the flood could take the post
45:41
office out and they're trying to get people to shelter, you know,
45:45
there's different things like that.
45:47
But I think that's it, though. I could ramble and ramble.
45:51
You know, you know how I get I just want people to stay safe.
45:57
Like, I mean, that's ultimately, like, I personally don't like
46:01
delivering mail in the snow. That's probably my least
46:06
favorite part of working for the post office is delivering mail
46:09
in the snow. Or when it's like below 10°.
46:14
That's like the absolute worst. And I know that there was people
46:17
out there delivering in the negatives, which I don't
46:22
necessarily agree with either, but I've had it at one time
46:27
where I delivered, it was -5 and I shut the back door for the LOV
46:32
because the LOV doesn't stay very insulated, obviously.
46:35
And so I shut that back door so that, and then I used all of my
46:41
empty trays to try and like, insulate myself.
46:44
But I was, I was like crying to, I was so mad and like, my tears
46:48
were freezing and I was so bad. But yeah, I just, I don't know.
46:57
I just had to get in that mental mindset of like, well, you're a
47:00
mail carrier and you live somewhere where it snows.
47:07
And I do what I can, but if it's not safe, then it's not safe and
47:11
I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to need to make
47:13
sure that I get home to my family and to my kid.
47:18
I mean, there's been times too where he's even been like,
47:20
you're going, you work. You know, locate to where we get
47:25
chemo winner 90% of the time. Yeah.
47:28
But then there's like the tea, but then it's the humidity.
47:32
Like you go to like Arizona, but then it's like 100° so they give
47:38
it. To I I I have a friend in
47:40
Florida and they posted their weather report this morning.
47:44
It was 26° where he's at. You know, it was in the 20s when
47:48
I got home and it felt warm to me.
47:51
Oh, I'm sure that is warm to him.
47:56
Guys, do you got anything else or we can wrap it up?
47:59
I think we can wrap it. I think we can wrap it.
48:01
I was looking to see if there's questions in the chat at all.
48:04
The other. Haven't been not really been
48:07
covering it. I think I covered a lot of it,
48:10
Yeah. Oh, so if if management, so
48:14
let's say that management does want you to case the trucks are
48:19
late. They are going to send you guys
48:21
out. You treat it like you would any
48:25
day and you keep, you know, keep working like you would.
48:30
And then if like the trucks are still late, then you would get
48:33
paid 8127 time to wait. It's like management needs to be
48:37
the one to sit like you need to make that call.
48:39
Are you sending us now calling final and having us go out or
48:43
are you going to are you going to call final, send us with what
48:47
we got? You know, typically they should
48:51
do that and not have you do a second trip later on if it's
48:56
like parcels and then but if it's male and there's like
49:01
things along those lines, then it would be 8127 time for that
49:05
part of that too. So, but the big thing, yeah,
49:09
like if you're there and management doesn't know if you
49:12
guys are going out, just please make sure, just sign your trip
49:15
sheet when you first get there. Like they got to pay you like
49:20
they would any other day. And, you know, there's been
49:23
times where the managers weren't sure if we were going to go out
49:26
or not. And I, I just cased everything.
49:29
I, I think I ended up working on my edit book.
49:31
I did get various things and then they were like, we're not
49:36
sending you guys out. There's even been a time where
49:38
like we had the power, the snow was so heavy that the power
49:42
lines couldn't hold the snow and the power was out in my post
49:48
office. So they, they brought out like
49:51
spotlights and we had like, it was so stupid.
49:56
And then they're like, well, we're not, you guys aren't
49:58
delivering either, you know, so it just depends.
50:02
But I think the height of the weather, we get like nervous and
50:07
we think, we almost, I guess overthink it.
50:10
And it's like you just have to like think about it like any
50:14
other day. Like so OK, if I'm waiting on a
50:16
truck, then it needs to be green card time or 8127 time because I
50:21
have everything else ready. And like, look, management like
50:26
make that call. What we're going to do if you
50:29
want me to run out with only my DPS and a couple parcels and
50:33
we're going to attempt it and figure out what we're going to
50:35
do so, but act of God, so. Thank you guys.
50:41
Your final words this evening, Josh.
50:44
Be safe, hydrate, layer up. It's going to take you longer
50:48
out there. But you know, in some of these
50:50
areas, especially with the weather conditions and
50:52
especially with 312 days not being able to deliver, depending
50:58
on where you're at and what the case is, don't get overwhelmed.
51:01
If you do take a take a step back, take a deep breath and
51:06
step back in. Have a good week and catch you
51:10
next time. Well, thank you guys.
51:13
I hope that this I hope that I know he like kind of cut out.
51:16
I heard him it's all good. It's all good Yep, I hear you
51:24
you're good. Thank you guys.
51:29
I I hope that this helped you guys.
51:31
I know some of it you may not necessarily agree with, but
51:34
that's just I'm I'm just presenting how what I've seen
51:39
and and the different scenarios. I live in a state that it snows
51:44
a lot. So it has not snowed that much
51:47
this year. Knock on wood, but we'll.
51:52
Take them. Get it?
51:53
With what it is, but yeah, usually March is when it gets
51:57
pretty yeah. And March is when most of the
52:02
the act of God scenarios have occurred here in my state.
52:05
So, but make sure that you guys are still staying hydrated.
52:10
I know like, I'm like, I'm I'm pretty guilty of it too.
52:15
This is a weird disclaimer that I wanted to put out there too.
52:18
If it I just in general, because I've had apparently like I had
52:23
something today where some spammer took my my name and like
52:29
texted people asking for money. Just make sure be mindful if you
52:35
have some random spam number texting you asking you for money
52:40
and emails and just vet information that who's asking
52:45
you these things. You know, it's not just sending
52:48
random spammers out there on the Internet or text message or
52:52
phone call, you know, be just mindful of who you're giving
52:56
that information to and check with your normal source, you
53:02
know, if it's if it's actually them or not, if that makes
53:06
sense. Yeah, sorry, I'm tired.
53:08
Also, if you guys need any help with anything, yeah, I'm like,
53:14
yeah, so you're not believing rando's on asking you for money.
53:18
But if you need help also the the EAP phone number it it again
53:24
it is what is EAP for. I should have it memorized now.
53:29
What is it? It's 1800.
53:31
EAP. Three, what is it?
53:33
3274 AEAP 1800 EAP the #4YO U and the phone number is
53:42
800-327-4968. So if you need help, anybody in
53:47
your household needs help. Maybe you were stuck inside in
53:53
the snowstorm and you guys are all driving each other crazy and
53:57
we need to talk to somebody else.
53:59
Call the AP. They're there for you for that
54:02
reason. So.
54:03
But yeah. Kristen, thanks guys.
54:08
I needed this normalcy. For those of you that are not on
54:12
my Facebook or in the Discord, my father passed away last
54:17
Sunday unexpectedly following a stroke that happened the
54:21
previous Sunday. So two weeks ago today when the
54:24
stroke happened, and unfortunately we did have to, I
54:28
did get to see dad on Saturday evening just shy of 24 hours
54:33
before he passed. But I was I.
54:38
So going forward, I am going to be traveling a lot between my
54:42
house and my mom's because on top of that, my mom was
54:47
diagnosed with dementia a little over a month ago.
54:50
So, yeah, this is like when I said it was a whirlwind week.
54:55
It, it, it was I, you know, my, after I got through the training
54:59
stuff I was doing, my daughter and my grandson and I went down
55:03
to my mom's on Saturday evening. We got to go visit dad in the
55:07
hospital. And then unfortunately we lost
55:10
him Sunday evening. So I I haven't had my breakdown
55:15
yet because I've been the one keeping the strong head and
55:18
making the hard phone calls and doing what needed to be done
55:23
both for my mom and what needed to be done paperwork and all
55:27
that other stuff wise. Because I knew that my brother
55:33
and my son were nowhere near in a headspace to try and handle
55:36
any of that. So I, I had space at the
55:40
greatest right now either. And you know, who knows, I may
55:42
be calling EAP if I have to, but we're going forward episodes may
55:48
be sporadic just because mainly of my travelling.
55:52
And yes, I am taking out FMLA. So I protect myself there.
55:58
And it was already planned before that.
56:00
So I'm just waiting on the paperwork to arrive.
56:02
But I will be travelling a lot primarily on Fridays and this
56:08
week possibly on Wednesday after work and Sundays.
56:12
So I will be spending my weekends, the majority that I
56:15
don't have other things scheduled for with at my mom.
56:19
Why we're trying to get everything else taken care of
56:22
and making sure that she's eating and doesn't want to just
56:26
instilling that she can't drive anymore.
56:27
She doesn't understand that, but we're trying.
56:30
So yeah, that's where I'm at. So episodes may be sporadic.
56:37
We may not do the live stage on discord.
56:39
If we you know, hey guys, we got a, you know, we got a topic and
56:43
what night are you right? We'll just we're just going to
56:45
get together and record it and and put it out when we can.
56:49
So we'll see what happens on all that.
56:53
I'm going to wish my son because I don't think I'm going to see
56:56
him before I get back down to mom.
56:58
So safe travel out to Meow's neck of the woods to start the
57:02
next chapter in his life. So yeah, it's the timing is not
57:08
great on that. But you know, he still needs to
57:13
see if the jobs can be a fit for him.
57:15
So, and then hopefully get his wife and son over here
57:18
eventually. You know, we're doing what we
57:21
can and I'm getting by. Like I said, tomorrow's going to
57:24
be my first day back on the route in two weeks and we're
57:27
going to see how that goes. It's not going to be an easy one
57:30
for me, but I'll be out there pushing through the snow.
57:34
I was looking at the temps, so going to be in the 20s, which
57:36
actually is going to feel like warmth for a change.
57:39
But you know, I'll remember to take a couple extra bottles of
57:43
water with me. Lord knows I'm going to have to
57:45
replenish the tears. It'll be flowing from my face
57:47
all day long. But that's just, you know, the
57:50
circle of life and now we got to do what we got to do to make
57:54
sure my mom's taken care of. But on that note, that's why I
57:57
didn't want to lead off with that guys.
57:59
I just, you know, wanted to put it out there what was going on.
58:02
And, you know, we initially said we weren't going to record last
58:05
week, then we thought we would. And then I said, no, I don't
58:07
think I can, which was probably a good thing because that was
58:10
the time frame. So we definitely, I needed a bit
58:15
back to normalcy this evening. So I said, yeah, let's do it,
58:18
Let's record. So and that note, guys, like I
58:21
said, it may be sporadic. So if you don't see something
58:25
next Monday, then you know, look, maybe in the middle of the
58:28
week just depends on my travelling and when I get home.
58:32
So but everybody take care. Definitely be safe out there.
58:36
This weather is just crazy in areas.
58:39
It isn't used to having this crazy weather.
58:41
And so definitely be safe. And you know, you, you get to
58:45
make that safety call yourself and we'll talk with you guys
58:49
next time.