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Transcript

Growing Alongside the Work · The Strength Catalyst

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Strength Catalyst, where I have candid coaching conversations with nonprofit leaders and change makers about real leadership challenges explored through the lens of strengths.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Colleen Baseli, executive coach and strength strategist.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: My guest today is Pam Whitworth, founder of the Shanti Children's Foundation, an organization that's been helping children in Nepal access education for nearly 30 years.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: And what began organically became much more than an organization Pam built.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: As she told me during our conversation, Shanti and I grew up together.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Over the years, the work has asked Pam to develop confidence, to learn to advocate for herself, to set boundaries around what she could and couldn't do, and to trust strengths she didn't always recognize in herself.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: So our conversation is about what can happen when the work we feel called to do becomes one of our greatest teachers, and how understanding our strengths can help us recognize just how much we've grown along the way.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: So here's my conversation with Pam.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, nice to have you with me today.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, Colleen.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: I am so excited.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: You and I met via email through a mutual friend and colleague.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: And we've never connected for a personal conversation until I reached out to you to see if you were interested in the podcast.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm so glad that you said yes.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: And in our conversation a couple weeks ago, I was really fascinated to hear about the organization that you've spent 30 years, I think, building.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: You can tell us about that.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: And even more fascinated as we began talking about how your life journey has really intertwined with the Shanti journey.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, anyway, before we start talking about your strengths, can you take us back to the beginning and tell us how did Shanti come to life?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was always kind of fascinated by the Himalayas since I was a little kid.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: So probably at 12 years old, I was reading National Geographic articles that my grandfather would save for me.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I guess I'm a mountain person.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Stories of, you know, Sir Edmund Hillary, and it just seemed incredibly exotic to me, the Himalayas.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was living in Iowa and I became really good friends with one of my neighbors.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: And she, at one point, we were having lunch.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: This is 30 years ago.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: And she told me that she was going to Nepal.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: And she had a niece that was doing an exchange program there.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: And Jane was going through a sad love affair and she wanted to get away.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: So she was going to Nepal.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: And there was, you know, this little voice in my head going, like, Jane's going to Nepal?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: How is how can how can she do that?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: This is 30 years ago.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people didn't really go to those kinds of places as commonly as they do now.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, you know, I told her how I had always been fascinated by the Himalayas and Nepal.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, Well, why don't you come?
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Oh, not possible.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I couldn't take the time, I couldn't spend the money, but it worked on me.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I kept thinking about it.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it just got that desire going.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Long story short, is I decided to go.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: I went and absolutely fell in love with not only the mountains.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: I trekked in the mountains, went to Annapurna Base Camp, but fell in love with the people and just felt this really deep connection.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, what what I thought was my once-in-a-lifetime trip, which I really thought that's what it was, because it just seemed impossibly indulgent or something, you know, also just extravagant to do that.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: I just fell in love and I came home and I really just wanted to go back.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I talked my husband into we would go back the next year.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then about a month before we were supposed to go, I broke my ankle really badly.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Had to have surgery, I had pins and plates.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so that trip was like went out the window.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: I was really depressed about that.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, once I started healing, all I wanted to do was go back to Nepal.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: At that point, my husband couldn't go any longer.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I just decided I'm gonna go by myself.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now that was a big deal because I was really kind of freaked out and a little scared to go by myself.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I thought the only way I'm gonna get over feeling this sad about the whole thing is to just do it, figure out how to do it, and it'll be okay.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe I'll be really sad there, but at least I'll be there and be sad instead of be home and be sad.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I went.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess, you know, in retrospect, that was a big deal because then from then on, you know, I traveled by myself a lot.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: I connected with another American woman who at that time was actually living in Nepal.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Mutual friends put me in touch with her, and she was helping at a local school.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so she said, Do you would you like to sponsor a kid?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's a really great need.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: Needy children from poor rural families can't afford to go to school.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: They can't get an education.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: I said, sure.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it was like incredibly cheap.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, I don't know,$300 a year or something.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, yeah, of course, I would love to do something like that to alleviate some suffering in whatever little way I can.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: So that was just the beginning.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: I started sponsoring this kid.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: I had a relationship with the school, I visited there.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: I went home and I thought, well, you know, I'm sending money anyway.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: I know these people now.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: There is a big need, which they had explained to me when I was there.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, well, I could ask a couple friends, you know, easy peasy, you know, at the time, I thought.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I didn't have any thought of starting a nonprofit, but um, I asked a couple friends, and you know, it just started from there.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, my thing was, I mean, it was my friends, people who trusted me, and I could make a personal connection between these friends and specific children.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that was really fulfilling for me, kind of that connection, because that's what I was feeling with the child that I was supporting.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: And meanwhile, I was running a little business myself and I was kind of doing this on the side.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I probably had maybe 10 people I was organizing that for.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then a friend wrote a little article for the local newspaper.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: And overnight, there were all these more people who wanted to sponsor kids.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I went from like 10 kids to like 35 kids, you know, because I felt like I couldn't say no.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if someone wanted to help, how could I not help when there's such a need, you know, and these kids could actually get education.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: And for someone who's just uh obviously been just learning about Shanti today, tell us what the organization does right now.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what we do now is pretty much the same template, which is we provide um sponsorships for needy children to be able to go to school, to be able to get an education.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, all of the research that's been done on the developing world shows that education is the single most important thing to pull people out of poverty.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that if someone is educated, they're much more likely to be able to be self-sufficient.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I have many long-term sponsors who have watched their kid from kindergarten or grade one, and now they're graduating from college.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's really fulfilling.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: And whenever I'm there, I'm taking pictures of all of the kids, I'm sending them via email to each sponsor.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Here's your child this year.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Look how they've grown.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is what they have to say about what they're doing.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so they can watch that child grow and develop over time.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it's and the kid for the kids to know that there's somebody on the other side of the world, they may never meet them, but somebody that cares enough to support them and to be there year after year.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: It it's you know, it's it's wonderful.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, your viewers are probably really familiar with this big flooding that happened in Nepal.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was sort of a tsunami of a flood that has destroyed a lot of villages and people's lives.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: People have lost family, people have lost their homes, huge infrastructure damage in Nepal.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's a trauma as big as the earthquake was.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: We are very busy trying to send relief to these remote areas where people are struggling.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: They have nothing.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they ran with the clothes on their back.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so they have no food, they have no shelter, they have no clothing, they have no soap, they have no cooking utensils, they have no cooking gas.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: They have they have nothing.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Fortunately, because we've been working there for so long and we have so many partners, we can send relief to these areas.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: So people have been sending in donations for this, and we're very grateful and we're doing everything that we can, both short term because it's very urgent right now, but also long term as people try to rebuild their lives.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's to me, it's just inspiring and reassuring about the goodness of human nature.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: When you and I spoke, I I definitely got the sense that your life journey and the shanti journey are very much intertwined.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think you said to me that almost felt like you were a blueprint of Shanti.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm wondering, what did you what did you mean by that?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, a couple things come to mind.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the first thing is how organic Shanti grew.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: So here's a person, me, who kind of has a spiritual background.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've been a meditator since I was in my early 20s, and you know, I've always felt like I wanted to contribute to the world.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: So on the one hand, you can contribute to the world with consciousness, but you know, I have always been a real firm believer in, yeah, but at the same time, you need to be feeding the people who need to be fed, etc.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I always kind of felt like I really wanted to do something to help in some way, but I had no idea what that would be or how I could do that.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: I felt very unequipped and uneducated in any way to be able to do that.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: And also probably didn't believe I could really do something like that.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: Me, you know, who am I to do something like that?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: When I went to Nepal and I started sponsoring kids there, and it sort of started growing more and more and more.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't a nonprofit yet.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: People were just trusting me that they could give me the money, I would deliver it, and they saw what where it was going.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think I told you this story.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was in in Kathmandu, I was in my hotel sitting on my bed, running the same tape through my mind of what are you gonna do with your life, Pam?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: What, you know, what contribution are you gonna make?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: With this idea that it had to be some huge thing that I was kind of incapable of doing.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Truly, there was a moment where it felt like that proverbial light bulb went on over my head as I was sitting there on the bed.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it was almost like something said, Pam, what do you think you're doing?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: You're already doing it.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: You started already.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it was the kids.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I hadn't, I don't know, it's so silly now looking back.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: I hadn't kind of put two and two together, but it was sort of like while I was questing or thinking that I was still asking these questions, they were already being answered, and I just had to recognize it.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then when I went through a divorce and I thought my life is just completely changing, it's changing financially in a huge way.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: What am I going to do about Shanti?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I'm putting in a huge amount of time on this pro bono.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm paying for my trips to Nepal.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: How can I keep doing that?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I also felt committed and didn't feel like I could let it go.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that was just a really big kind of crucible for me that I had to, I realized I had to figure out how I could keep this going.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: I felt like I had to become a nonprofit, which I had avoided because I just thought, oh my God, I just don't know how to do that.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: There's going to be all kinds of accounting required and, you know, tax reporting at the end of the year and all this stuff that I have no idea how to do.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to need to fundraise.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how to fundraise, you know.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: But I had kind of, number one, I was committed.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: I had a kind of um signature, which was this close connection between the kids and the sponsors and my close connection with the kids in the schools.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that whatever I did, I wanted to preserve that.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: So when I became a nonprofit, I knew I had to learn a lot of things.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: I knew I had to hold on to the things that I loved about the work.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I really had to develop some skills that I didn't have.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Now, for someone else, maybe that wouldn't have been so daunting, but for me, it was really terri kind of terrifying.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, like when you say, you know, Shanti and I grew up together, we did.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, as Shanti grew, I had to grow also and learn not only skills, but learn more about myself.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: When you work in the nonprofit world, lots of times we go into this thinking, oh, I'm the big hero, the answer to all these problems.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: And very quickly you realize number one, you cannot solve all the problems of the world.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: You have your little corner where you do good work.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I'll give you an example.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: When it came clear to me, I had a girl who graduated from high school, wanted to go to the UK for college, and wanted me to fund it and to organize it.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt, you know, number one, totally incapable of doing that.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what do I know about immigration?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: Two, how can I be responsible for somebody who's in the UK?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: And also, if I did it for her, every one of our sponsored kids, which we had a hundred at the time, at some point would want me to do that for them.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, and I was very stressed about it.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I kind of dealt with that for a few days.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then at one point, I don't know, it was sort of like that light bulb years before, where something said, You're not her only hope.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: You have no idea what resources she has inside her, or other resources that could come to her that you're blocking.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so I came back to her and I said, you know, I totally can't do this, but I totally trust that you can somehow do this and you'll figure it out.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And she did.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: And she ended up going to the UK.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: She got a bachelor's degree, she got a master's degree.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how she did it.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: She came back to Nepal, she married this really well-educated guy.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: They now have two kids, they're living this really nice life, and she figured it out.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: All right, but let me point out one of your strengths because sorry to interrupt you there, but I want to make sure that you recognize the role that you probably played in that.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just looking at your current skills summary, and I see that one of your strengths is called esteem builder, and that is the strength that is about helping someone else see their potential.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: And when you help someone else see their potential, then their confidence grows.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I would guess that if you hadn't lent that amazing strength of yours to this particular situation and to her, you wouldn't be able to say the things that you're saying to us now about how far she has come and what she's been able to create for herself.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: So kudos to you, honestly.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it was just one of those things where I felt like I was lucky.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Life taught me that for whatever reason, where that little voice came from, you know, because up until that point, I did feel like responsible.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: So that was, yeah, that was really a significant learning for me.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, on the on the topic of learning, one of the other things that you and I uh talked a little bit about in preparation for today was, you know, the ways that you have grown over the years.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: And particularly we talked about board management uh and how sometimes you needed to stand up for yourself.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I hear that from a lot of other nonprofit leaders that sometimes it can be challenging to work with a board that has so many you know brilliant ideas, um, but you've got a role that you need to play and need to manage expectations.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm curious to know, you know, what did what did the experience with the board that you told me about, what impact did that have on who you've become as a nonprofit leader and a human being?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it it required, again, it was sort of a crucible.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was very stressed out.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it was in the early days of when I became a nonprofit, and I was asking my board to be paid$1,000 a month.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I like I said, I had just gone through this divorce, I was struggling like how I was gonna make ends meet and didn't want to give up shanti.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: And my board, one of the people on my board said, Oh, we can't do that.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: This is someone who is also independently wealthy.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: So so I was, I got off the call, felt really stressed, demoralized, hurt, and I just had to sort of sit with that for a few days and parse out my feelings about it and and realize that you know, I was hurt, I was also kind of angry, and that I had to speak up for myself, which was not easy for me at the time.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: That was very hard, you know, and also I was seeing these board members as sort of like authority figures, or you know, they had supported me to do this and they were more accomplished or something.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: I really had to figure out how to go back and talk to them about this, stand up for myself in a balanced way, you know, aside from the emotion, not be hurt, not be angry, but lay my case and really express how I felt because I also felt like it was really important if I was going to work with these people, you know, we had to have an understanding and a mutual respect and all of that.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: And and they were people who had been sponsoring through Shanti for quite a while.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I felt like I could I could do it.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: And tell me what strengths did you of yours, other than the self-belief, which we've been talking about um already, what other strengths did you bring into that situation that gave you the energy uh and the ability to succeed and feel confident?
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, I think because you know, I was so deeply committed to Shanti, but for me to be able to keep going, I had to have some support.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Know, even a small amount of support for me to feel like, yes, it, you know, what now that we're talking about it, it makes me realize that it was sort of the beginning of me also developing these kind of, it's like these negotiating skills.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: And over the years with my board, they came into play a lot because sometimes there would be disagreement or dis, you know, misunderstanding between board members, and I would hear about it.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, so and so did this or so-and-so said that.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I would have to, you know, sort of mend those fences and help them see really what was going on and trust each other and all of that.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess, you know, just having a board really made me grow in that way.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and as someone, uh me, who enjoys spotting strengths and people, I want to make sure you also recognize and appreciate what I observed in the story you just told is your ability to provide a counterpoint, you know, and to have have the board think about the other another perspective on this.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: And your ability to offer those alternatives ensures that a decision is made with more considerations taken into account.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: And also, you've got a strength, I think, in providing feedback.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: And for many people, that's a draining strength, and maybe at times it's draining for you too.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: But the fact that you were able to give them the feedback on how you felt and the impact on the organization presumably furthered your um success, but also boosted your confidence because our confidence and our self-belief is really grounded in the opportunities that we have for ourselves to use a number of our strengths together in combination in the scenarios that we find ourselves.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: So kudos to you.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um maybe you didn't know it then, but I'm enjoying the opportunity through our conversations to help you label some of those strengths that have made you really successful.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and I'm curious, like, so now at this stage of life, I you said to me in our prep conversation that you're thinking less maybe about how to make Shanti bigger and more about, you know, how can you simplify things?
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'm curious to know how your definition of success is, what it is now versus maybe what it was 30 years ago or even 10 years ago.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: In my better moments, I think about how I've spent my life, you know, for all the other ways in which, you know, I may think, oh, what more should I have done or could I have done?
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we all do that, I think.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: But this is one of the reasons why it's been so great to talk to you because it helps me reflect on what I actually have done, to have sent all these kids through school, to have watched them grow, to watch them change and become more self-confident.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when I go this fall, there's a batch of kids, 15 kids that are graduating from college and getting to celebrate that.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And they're kids that I've known since they were really tiny.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we have a really sweet relationship because I've been there for them year after year after year.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's that's really fulfilling.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me to kind of just remember that, recognize that, you know, that's the payoff for nonprofit work.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: I've kind of been fortunate that in various ways, life, nature, people have supported me to make this possible.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm incredibly grateful for that.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I just have a wonderful network of friends and community and people, donors who have become friends, you know, through this work.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: The look on your face is a mixture between just pure joy and pure contentment.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: So as you think about the future of Shanti, um, I'm curious to know what you hope continues maybe someday when you're um no longer in the role that you're in.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's probably a legacy.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I will never see, which is just the lives of these kids.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've gotten to see a few that have, you know, the early, really early kids who I'm thinking of one girl who before we actually started to put kids into high school and college, she was one of the very early ones that graduated from class 10 and we wanted to help her do something more.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: And we put her into a pharmacy training program because there's little tiny neighborhood pharmacies everywhere all over Nepal.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: And we thought, you know, that was doable for her, even though she wasn't a very good student.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember visiting her when she was in that program and her just crying her eyes out, saying, This is too hard.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: I can't do this, I'm failing, and sitting on the stairs with her and just saying, You can do it.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: I know you can.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: You just have to get through this, and then you're just gonna have something.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: And she did, she got through it, she graduated, she went back to her village in Humlo, which is a remote mountainous area over in the far west of Nepal.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: She's been working in a pharmacy there, and you know, she messages me from time to time.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: But even though it's modest, it's allowed her to build a little house in her village.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: She's married now, she has two kids, she's sending her kids to school, and she'll message me and say, this wouldn't have been possible.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I couldn't imagine that I would be capable of doing this, of building a house, of sending my kids to school.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, she's done this and she's done it on not very much.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that there are many stories like that that I may never know.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Kids that go out into the world and help their family raise their kids, and it will be a different life than it might have been if they had been uneducated, illiterate, working hard labor jobs.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: From my side, something that's been really important to me, probably in everything I've done in my life, is to hold on to why it was you started this and what gives you fulfillment in it, you know, and be clear about that so that as you develop, as it goes through changes, you don't lose that core because that's where your fulfillment will come from.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because there have been various times where my board or people who maybe were potential board members kind of wanted to take Shanti in some other direction that they felt would be profitable or something.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I it was just really clear to me that if we did that, it wouldn't be fulfilling for me.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's important to know to be clear on that, why you're going into this.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as you think about everything we've talked about today, like nearly 30 years at Shanti and what you've learned about yourself, where you are now, what might you want to share with other nonprofit leaders or founders, or anyone thinking about wanting to build a career in a nonprofit?
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like what helped you most stay committed and joyful?
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a good question.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think what's helped me do it is that I loved it.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I feel this great connection to Nepal and the Nepali people.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: My heart is there.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, all of my connections with the kids, with the schools, with all of the friends I've made in Nepal, it just is good for my heart.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: And once I started, for whatever reason, something in me, once I started supporting kids, I felt committed to continue.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Pam, well, thank you so much.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: I've loved spending time with you and getting to know your story so much more deeply.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: And what strikes me is that Shanti isn't something, something you've built over nearly 30 years.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: In so many ways, you've grown alongside it, as you've suggested, and you've allowed the work to teach you so many things about who you are, what matters to you, and how you want to contribute.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been fun to kind of unpack that with you and understand the strengths that you have that underlie all that.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: I have so much respect for what you created and for your willingness to reflect so openly with me and with our listeners right now.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for letting all of us.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: What stayed with me from my conversation with Pam is the idea that sometimes we don't fully recognize our strengths while we're using them.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Pam didn't set out with a plan to build a nonprofit.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: She simply responded to something that mattered deeply to her.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: And as Shanti grew, she grew alongside it, learning to trust herself, to speak up when something mattered, and recognize that helping others doesn't always mean doing something for them.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's one of the gifts of understanding our strengths.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes they help us see more clearly what we've already been doing and appreciate how those experiences have shaped who we've become.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: Pam said that our conversations helped her reflect on what she had actually done.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Perhaps that's a worthwhile invitation for all of us to pause occasionally and recognize not only what we've accomplished, but how we've grown along the way.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining me for this episode of the Strength Catalyst.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: And until next time, keep leading with intention and leveraging your strengths.