Latest / For Love We Heal Podcast / E37: Relationship OCD (ROCD) Partners Guide

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E37: Relationship OCD (ROCD) Partners Guide · For Love We Heal Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Flub We Heel podcast.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: It is March 26th, and today I am solo.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Grace is sick with COVID, so she's home resting up.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I will be uh soloing this episode today.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so uh what are we talking about?
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Today we're gonna be doing an episode called the relate the ROCD Partners Guide.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: And what this episode is, is here to educate the partner of those with relationship OCD to provide support to the partner, to provide education to the partner, and to help the partner understand how they can support their partner with ROCD.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: So um if you have ROCD, if you're listening to this, which I imagine many of you do, share this with your partner.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's hard to let your partner in on what you're experiencing, but they do need to know what's going on.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's important for them to know what is happening for you.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now, they don't need to know all the little thoughts and all of the things that go on inside your head because that's not it that's not relevant.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: But what they do need to know is where what is causing this and what and how to go about dealing with it and how you're gonna go about dealing with it and what this is what this path looks like for the both of you.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: So um yeah, so let's dive in.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so uh assuming that the partner, you the partner of someone with relationship OCD is listening to this, I want to um I just want to empathize with you because this is not easy for you.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um whether you know a lot or not about what's going on for your partner, this can feel quite confusing for you because your partner will oscillate between wanting to be with you and not wanting to be with you.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: They will be one foot in and one foot out.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you're going to experience them as being in the relationship with you, um, expressing to you that they really do want this to work and that they're willing to do whatever it takes.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: And at other times you might feel them be shut down, distant, cold, um, needing space.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: So there is um uh there is a confusing nature to this, and it can feel dysregulating for you because um, I mean, it's not easy to be around someone who's anxious because that's just uncomfortable anyway, right?
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Not to mention oscillating between anxiety and and disconnection and avoidance, right?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to empathize with you because this is not easy for you either.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard for both of you.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is extremely difficult to deal with.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, now it's not hopeless, it's there's a way through this, which is why I want to educate you all on this today.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: I want to help you to feel more confident in navigating this situation with your partner.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Partners that have ROCD make very good partners when they're not stuck in their anxiety and their doubt, they are they're um highly empathetic, they are um they're intuitive, they are sensitive, they are caring, they are creative, they are wonderful people.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so I want to remind you of that, that um they are very sweet, caring people that that um that make fantastic partners, but they do come along with a certain baggage that you know we're gonna talk about here today.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: So um so being with a partner that has ROCD might make you question your own relationship decisions.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Why am I staying with someone who seems so back and forth all the time?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: It might bring up feelings for you of not being good enough for them or feeling inadequate, right?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it might be incredibly frustrating for you.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you might wonder or think that you should just find someone who's more sure about you, who is more emotionally available, who you can just relax with all the time, right?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of things that this being with a partner that has ROCD will bring up for you.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: But that's a good thing in a way, because it's showing you that you have your own work to do.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: If it's bringing up your own your insecurities, it's a sign that you have some healing to do.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, what I want we'll be talking about, what's called the conscious relationship framework here uh in a little bit.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but for now, just I want you to keep in mind that there's a lot you can learn about yourself by being with someone with relationship OCD.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not cozy all the time and it's not comfortable all the time, but most life lessons that are important are not cozy and are not comfortable.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: But when we look back at them, we are usually grateful that we went through them because we learned a ton about ourselves and we grew in the process, right?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Typically, people with relationship OCD um are they're not they they seem like they might be sort of toxic in a sense and they might have characteristics of um, you know, obviously it's an unhealthy dynamic to be in.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there is potential there, and you know, I mean you hear don't date potential, but um they as long as they are willing to work through this and actively work on it, it's a huge deal because they are going to grow immensely themselves through going through this process.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: So let's I want to talk to you about what you're dealing with here.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: What is going on inside of the mind and the brain and the nervous system of someone that has relationship OCD?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's really important that you understand the nuts and bolts of this issue so that you can, you know, grasp it.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: People with relationship OCD are grappling with or dealing with unresolved relational wounds.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Their past hurt is causing them to see you as dangerous, which causes them to view you negatively at times.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: So this is literally, it feels like inside of the body of someone with relationship OCD, it feels like life and death.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna be talking about why that is, and I'm gonna help you understand why that is.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: I want to give you a just an analogy for for a moment.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Just imagine, you know, a imagine taking in a stray cat.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um and not just any stray cat, but a stray cat has that has been particularly wounded or hurt or abused, right?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: And if you know about abused animals, you know that abused animals are very unpredictable, they are they are typically incredibly fearful, they are incredibly on defense, reactive.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: So you imagine taking in a stray cat that's been abused, it does not want to be near you.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: It you'll have to lean down, hold a treat, invite it to come forward when it's ready, like all of these things.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: They do not want to be near you, even the most well-intentioned humans to a stray cat, even the most kind, caring, and compassionate human beings are seen as completely dangerous.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: So the cat's not able to see, just like people, you're we're not wounded.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Are not able to see reality for what it is because the past has clouded their perception of what relationships and being in connection are, right?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: So your partner that has ROCD, whether they are aware of it or not, has unresolved relational wounds that cause them to pull away, to move toward you, to hang on because they're afraid of loss.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: When they pull away, they're afraid of being rejected or engulfed or smothered or losing themselves in a relationship.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna be talking about more of this, of what it all is.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I want you to know though, what you're dealing with is not a reflection of your worth as a person, it's a reflection of their own history that's showing up in the relationship because you are likely more secure in your attachment or more anxious in your attachment.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: So you typically want closeness, you want to be in proximity with them, you want to get to know them, you want emotion, you want, you know, you want to be with them, you want physical contact, you want all the things that, you know, any any, I shouldn't say normal, but any secure leaning or anxious leaning person would want.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: We want to feel our partner there with us.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: We want them there, but it's hard to feel like your partner's with you when they're doubting and they're dissociating and they're avoiding and etc.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it can be obviously incredibly activating.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: So what's important to understand, and I I think I just mentioned this, your partner, if you're anxious leaning in your attachment, which I highly recommend you look into your own attachment style, because we need to every I think everybody should get clear on what their attachment style is, because it largely informs how we navigate our life and our relationship, because it's uh our attachment is the the blueprint of which uh we relate to others and the world from based on uh how available or unavailable or uh our parents were at an early age.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: So being raised in a particular way informs how we do relationships now, um for better or for worse.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: So uh if you are anxious leaning in your attachment, then your partner's behaviors will bring up painful feelings for you of feeling lonely, of feeling not good enough, of feeling inadequate, um, all these painful feelings that will arise from your own internal world and your own history from being with a partner that has RCD that is typically more avoidant in nature, or you know.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I would offer you too is get clear on your attachment style and work on your attachment.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Very, very important in any relationship.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: I would say any single relationship, I think everybody should get clear on what their attachment style is and work on that.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so what is ROCD?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: ROCD is a is a combination uh of OCD and disorganized attachment.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about disorganized attachment first.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: What disorganized, or also known as fearful avoidant attachment is, it's a it's a polarization, a psychological polarization between avoidant attachment and anxious attachment.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: And what avoidant attachment is, is it's a need to avoid or escape or distance to avoid rejection.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: So we fear that if our partner knew who we really were, if they really saw us, they wouldn't want us or they wouldn't choose us anymore.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we would rather avoid them seeing us to avoid the risk of that rejection and the pain, the rejection pain that's deeply unconscious, deeply visceral, deeply painful.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's a very it's incredibly painful experience.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: So we, you know, uh those that that have disorganized attachment, they are they're they're fearful of a of connection for that reason.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh avoidant attachers or on that avoidant spectrum uh are also afraid of being engulfed or smothered or trapped.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we in an attempt to hold on to our uh our individuality, um, we and autonomy as a human, as a separate self, we feel like we need to be at a distance of others.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: And this typically comes from parents who were overbearing or controlling or um or who leaned on us emotionally for their own needs and sort of rejected our needs.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: So um, so that's so when we talk about disorganized attachment, one side of the polarization, and we could think of this as like a tug of war, one side is tugging the ear partner to leave to avoid rejection, engulfment, and losing themselves.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: And the other side, which is the anxious attachment, is rooted in feelings of abandonment, um, of inconsistent caregiving.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Your caregiver was sometimes there and sometimes not.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so abandonment and feeling not good enough.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: So these are this the the avoidant attachment that we have parts of us that are clinging, that are desperately doing whatever it takes to keep our partner in our life.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: And disorganized attachment develops when the person we went to for safety and comfort was also a source of threat or um or danger in some way, right?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, whether our parent was reactive or whether our parent was fear uh a source of fear or they were afraid themselves or they were really insecure themselves.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't feel like we could be with them because it was too uncomfortable to be with them or too scary to be with them.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: And we didn't feel obviously that we could be away from them because we're children and we need the proximity and closeness of our parents to feel secure.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we get locked into uh into coming forward and going away, never feeling at ease, constantly trapped in a state of dysregulation.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so now what happens is for a lot of folks with relationship OCD, they had never felt this way in their romantic relationships before.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: And what is typical is that those with relationship OCD, if this is your partner that we're talking about right now, your partner is used to being with other people, uh romantic partners that are were emotionally unavailable.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: So what they were feeling primarily uh uh was the uh anxious side of their attachment.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: They were chasing partners, trying to get them to love them, trying to sort of repeat an old pattern of getting love or attention or validation.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just they were primarily in that chasing, um, chasing uh uh, which is very euphoric and you know, where we get infatuated and where we're you know we're craving the we're craving attention.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, and most many people mistaken that for love because there's an intensity to it, there's a there's a draw and a pull to it, and we mistaken that that infatuation for love, right?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Which it isn't.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: So along comes you, perhaps that's more secure or anxious leaning in your attachment.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: You want closeness, you're not emotionally unavailable, you want to get to know them, and then their avoidant attachment activates you, and then they hear things like this is the wrong relationship, you're not in the right relationship, you need to leave, you need to find someone you're more sure about.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: And what these thoughts are typically doing is they're trying, they're unconscious parts of us trying to convince us or trying to convince your partner to leave you so that you so that you can avoid the potential of uh of rejection engulfment and losing yourself, losing themselves.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: So then what happens um is we'll talk about OCD now.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: So boom, here they are in a real in a emotionally available relationship with someone who's you know wants to get to know them and wants to commit, and it scares the hell out of them.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: And because of that, they get all these avoidant things like breakup urges or these intrusive thoughts to tell them to leave or whatever it is that show up that get them to try and pull away.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: But what happens is is that then activates their obsessive parts.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: So the the which is the OCD, and what the OCD is is because they had caregivers that were typically reactive or controlling or whatever, they um uh they they have core wounds of feeling like a bad person, right?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: And what happens is is their obsessive parts go, what if I am in the wrong relationship?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: What if I'm making a mistake?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: What if, what if, what if, what if?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: High, high, high anxiety.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and the obsessions and anxiety are an attempt to figure out whether they are or not in the right relationship as a way to avoid making a mistake.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because those with relationship OCD, they are terrified of making a mistake.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: They're typically perfectionistic, they want to do good, they're morally aligned, they don't want to do anything wrong, especially if it involves affecting or harming someone that they care about.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: So they the avoidant parts of them that are trying to get them to pull away are throwing up lots of very disturbing imagery and thoughts and experiences that lead them to obviously want to leave the relationship.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: And this triggers the hell out of their obsessive parts because the obsessive parts say things like, Well, this isn't what I learned was I was supposed to feel in a with a person that I love, right?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't right.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: And because they're to so terrified of making a mistake and being a bad person and hurting others, they freak because that underlying shame of I'm bad, I'm disgusting, I'm horrible gets activated.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because those with ROCD typically feel very responsible for other people's emotions because they were parentified.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Their parents made them feel responsible for the parents' emotions.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Parentification is a role reversal where the parent looks to the child for emotional support.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this is typically very unconscious, and most parents that parentify their children would never admit this, especially those with a relationship OCD.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: There's typically a lot of denial and gaslighting that goes on with parents of ROCD.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: But um they there's an emotional weight that the ROCD person takes on to feel responsible to be the fixer or the cheerer upper or whatever that mends family wounds and keeps everything intact.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Huge responsibility in for a child, something that a child should never have to take on.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: But nonetheless, because they have that pattern, they are terrified of doing something that would upset you.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: So this gets tricky, right?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because avoidant parts want to avoid rejection, but it's activating obsessive parts who want to avoid making a mistake.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: What also happens is those avoidant parts also cause the anxious parts to freak out.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because those anxious parts are like, I love this person, I know they're great, I want things to work out with them.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: So they're terrified of losing the attachment connection that they've gained from being with you.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: There's a sense, even though they're reacting um with fear, there is on the other side of the disorganized polarization, being with you is a source of comfort and safety.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: So it's equally a source of danger and a source of comfort.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: So the idea that these young, often young parts of us, these inner children that are holding on to the relationship, the idea that they might lose that is terrifying for them.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you can see your partner is grappling with three primary systems of parts that are very, very challenging to navigate, incredibly painful.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what you've got.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's what your partner is grappling with.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Now, how how do you support them?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, now actually, let's talk about how you're gonna.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Support yourself first.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, you have to remember this about them that this is them.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is not you.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is not a reflection of you.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: This is not your problem.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: You do not, excuse me, you do not need to save them from this.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is not a reflection of your worth or your value or whatever.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: This is their problem.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: And what is important to do is if it's activating for you, if it's bringing up your own feelings of inadequacy or low self-worth, that's your problem.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's yours to deal with.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: We want to work toward what we'll talk about in a little bit is healthy individuation, which and differentiation.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Differentiation is simply I can hold on to myself and manage my own anxieties when someone, when my partner isn't agreeing with me or is showing up in a way that I don't agree with or that rubs up against my wounds.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: I can hold on to myself, I don't need to get lost.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: I can't, I don't get lost in my own feelings.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: I can maintain my own individual sense of self in the face of whatever my partner's bringing to me.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's ideal.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: To not lose yourself in your partner's struggles.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Easier said than done.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Easier said than done.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, what is also important to know is do not get angry at them.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: You can feel angry, but don't get angry at them because this actually makes the issue worse because of their shame, right?
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because they feel bad already, because they feel like a terrible person for putting you through this.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Getting angry at them only intensifies shame and makes their symptoms worse and makes them want to pull away more.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: So feel your anger, but don't put it on them.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: Don't direct it at them.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Acknowledge it for yourself.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and you know, therapy is always good.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: So get into therapy if you're with someone with RCD, because it's not, you know, we need everybody needs help, and uh, you can't do this alone.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: So therapy is key, but these are these are practical tips that I want you to to realize.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because okay, so the the less accepted they feel by you, the worse their symptoms get, right?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: Be the space where they can come to with their worries, because acceptance is what was missing in their childhood.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: The the safe space was not there.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: So the less they feel they can come to you with their anxiety, the worse the anxiety gets, and the more they feel they need to hide, and the more they feel they're responsible for your emotions, which is uh again a direct reflection of how it was in their childhood.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: The more responsible they feel for your emotions, the worse that they feel because that's part of the problem, right?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because they were parentified and they were guilted and etc.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: What else?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um let's see.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, how to how to get you know, how to support yourself, how to support them.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's all the same.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, because you supporting yourself is supporting them.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, you have a life outside of the relationship, right?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so don't fall into the trap of your partner being your everything.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Don't lean on them emotionally, per se.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there is a degree to which we lean on our partners emotionally in a relationship, you know, when we're feeling down, we but they are not there to save you from your own stuff, they're not there to make you happier.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's not their job.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: They are there to add to your life, adding not becoming your source of comfort.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, because that's codependency, we're gonna talk about codependency in a little bit.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's important to understand what codependency is because many people unconsciously enter relationships as though their relationship is uh a sort of solution or magic solution to problems that they have internally.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: We project our issues onto our partner as a way to get them to, in essence, sort of fix or solve what's going on for us, and it's very unconscious.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like if we carry unconscious loneliness, um, we tend to put that on our partner.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: So if they're not spending enough time with us, we end up getting angry.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: But that anger is a reflection of our childhood and not our partner.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: So we gotta get good at differentiating ourselves from each other, which then makes us better partners.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: If we don't need our partner, if we just if if we don't need our partner to save us or fix us, there's no pressure, we feel more heart-led, we feel more connected, it's win-win for everybody.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, um, let's see.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about codependency.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: So codependency is a relationship pattern where your sense of self-worth or emotional stability comes becomes overly tied to another person, as I as I was saying, right?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it's in it's essentially it's losing yourself while trying to manage, fix, or hold on to someone else.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Typically, in codependency patterns, there's like a fixer, and there's uh um, there's one who wants to be fixed, right?
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: So there's one who's trying to manage the emotions of the other, uh, and there's the other one that's trying to hold on.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: So um codependency is like this: it's I feel okay when you're okay, and I feel unsafe when you're not okay, right?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: So our emotional state gets is largely dependent on the emotional state of the other.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now, there's mirror neurons, there's that whole body of work, which we do get influenced by others' states uh of emotions and energy.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: But um, when we're codependent, when we have when our boundaries, when our emotional boundaries are not intact, it causes us to be heavily influenced by the other person's mood and behavior.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we want to work toward healthy individuation, which is I am me and you are you, and your emotional state doesn't have to define the way that I feel, and my emotional state doesn't have to define how you feel because I know I'm worth, I know my worth, I know my my uh my value as a person.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: I have a sense of stability and security within me to know that I can handle difficult emotions.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: I um right, we through our inner work, we internalize a sense of stability so that um the the outside external environment doesn't have as much uh influence over us, right?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Very, very important work, but codependency is losing ourself in the other, right?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, so uh what happens is we start organizing our behavior around keeping the other person happy.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: So your partner, the one with ROCD, is organized around keeping you happy and preventing conflict, avoiding abandonment, managing emotions, reactions, or problems.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, if you're anxious leaning, your codependency patterns will be to monitoring them, seeing how they're feeling.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Are they do they love me?
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: Do are they attracted to me?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: What's gonna happen today?
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: So your insecurities will come in.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: So there's uh you're both largely influenced around the emotional state of the other, right?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Other signs of codependency, you feel responsible for other people's emotions, you struggle to say no or set boundaries, you prioritize other needs over your own, you feel anxious when there's tension or distance, you try to fix or rescue people, your self-worth depends on being needed, loved, and or approved of.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: You stay in relationships that aren't healthy because leaving feels unbearable.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like these are all signs of codependency, right?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and many, many people struggle with this because most people didn't have an amazing childhood.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, some better than others.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: What are we at?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're at 31 minutes.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so we'll just keep going.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, what is a healthy what is okay?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about interdependence and individuation, right?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: So we talked a bit about this.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: You can care deeply, but not abandon yourself.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, like if your partner's struggling, you care about them, but you don't lose yourself in trying to fix them or make it better, right?
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: For them.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're not saving them, you're providing a space for which they can come to you to talk about what's going on for them without fixing them or trying to make it go away for them.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: But you let you provide a space where Ramdoss would say this you you provide a space where they can come up for air.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they will there, you'll you'll know, you'll notice this.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: If you can just listen to them and not react to them, they will immediately calm down.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: Their symptoms will get better.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: I can guarantee it.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um you can tolerate someone else being upset without fixing it, right?
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: You can have boundaries and connection.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: You can love someone and say no to someone, right?
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and your worth isn't on the line, right?
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Every time that they come to you with something that they're worried about, your worth's not tied to that.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: So we want to work toward undoing codependence patterns by healing our attachment wounds and moving into more security.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: That all that process is we talk about that on the podcast, how to heal it.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: There's lots of sessions that I do with people, so you can learn more about that on the podcast.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have time to talk about how to actually heal it today, but um, that's our mission.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I hope this is making sense so far.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: We got we have one more topic to talk about, which is what I call the conscious relationship framework.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Many people talk about this in in very similar ways, conscious relationships, that right.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: But what is it?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to bring in the concept of being uh in a conscious relationship or applying the conscious relationship framework to your situation.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, I'll borrow sort of the language from Ram Doss, um, which relationships are a vehicle for personal and spiritual growth.
• 33:31
  unknown: Right.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna be talking, we'll talk about this.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: Dick Schwartz, the founder of Internal Family Systems Therapy, he says our partners, our relationship partners are are our tormentors, and uh Tor and mentor are are broken into two, right?
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: They torment us, their torment, the way that they trigger us or activate us, is a form of mentorship.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: And what do we mean by this?
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Relationships are a vehicle for personal spiritual growth, our partners are a tormentor, there are mentors.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: What is this?
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: Anytime you get thrown off, anytime you are not operating from groundedness, stability, love, compassion, um, curiosity, connectedness, calm.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I said that, there's these qualities that represent who we really are.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: This is the self in internal family systems therapies.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: This is it's it's our innate inner wisdom, it's it's our secure, authentic self.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: Anytime when we lose our footing, when we fall out of self, it's a sign that a wound has been activated.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: Something inside of us um is off that needs attention and healing.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: So why is it so what relationships are really good at is throwing us off of taking us of taking us out of our footing.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: But this is great because if you see it as an opportunity and not a problem, the opportunity is you can use that as a method of awakening.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you focus on why you got thrown off and you trace it internally into your sensations in your body, your emotions, and essentially, which leads to your memories, then you can see what needs healing, what is it the wound that caused you to lose your footing?
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you start to heal that, when we bring things like internal, uh uh, sorry, ideal parent figure imagery, um, when we bring compassion to the parts of us that are wounded, the little inner children that didn't have a great childhood or missed out, or who were abused, or who were manipulated, or who had scary parents or whatever, when we reparent and rewrite that internal story that we have from our childhood, when we um use powerful imagery and our imaginations to provide corrective experiences to these little parts of us, these young parts in the past, and we rescue them and retrieve them from where they're stuck in our psyches back in the past, and we update them, we bring them into the present, and we internalize a sense of love and wholeness and worth and value through imagery and through being, you know, through bringing compassion to ourselves, then we move into more security, right?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: More wholeness, more peace.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and if we didn't get triggered, if our partners didn't bring this out of us, then we wouldn't have a way to access that material.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, everything in life that is challenging for you, unless it's toxic, unless it's an environmental thing where there's like, you know, where you're being abused or taken advantage of or whatever, that's no good.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to use, I mean, you can, but you don't want to be staying in a situation that's harmful to you.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're with someone who's well-meaning and well-intentioned, who can apologize, who can have empathy and accountability and whatever, and you know, then this is a gift to be able to be shown what it is that can allow you to heal and move into more peace and love and wholeness inside of you.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Your relationships give you the quickest, the most, the most immediate access to those wounds.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: And particularly romantic relationships do this.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: Friendships do as well, but romantic relationships, because they're the closest, because they we though these are the people that get the closest to the wounds, the emotional stuff inside of us, um, that particularly it's romantic relationships that are the best vehicle for personal and spiritual growth.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: So what I'm inviting you to do is act is utilize that.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: See this relationship as something that's helping you awaken to you know um uh a greater level of peace and and love and wholeness within you.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's um that's basically it.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um essentially, we are allowing you are allowing your partner that has ROCD to do their own work so that they can become more secure, and you are making the effort to do your own work so that you can become more secure, and um, so that you can both move into more secure attachment.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you have ROCD or you don't, if you're the partner of ROCD and you want to learn more or you wanna, you know, dive into more material, like I have a 12-hour course that you can dive into that breaks everything down into more and more detail.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you get access to bi-weekly support groups with me, live interactive support groups with others, face on camera, we're all talking, we're all communicating together.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, private Facebook community and inner work pairing.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: So you will have the opportunity to submit your name and your email every week and be paired up with someone else in the community to facilitate inner work together, parts work, uh, and you get a process sheet that you follow with each other.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: Wonderful way to connect with others and to heal a relationship OCD, uh, and very affordable.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's only 37 bucks a month.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: That so, so uh I invite you in.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: I invite you to come and be part of this community that I'm building.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited about it.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's something that I haven't offered before.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: We've got like 20 people there now.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: We've got regular people in the support group that come every week.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a chance to come and be part of something uh something larger than you that you can rest in as you heal your relationship OCD.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: So uh that will be that link will be in the show notes.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: Do me a favor, would you follow this podcast?
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like whatever you're listening to it on, can you follow me if it's on Spotify?
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: Give me a follow, write a review if you like it, like if this is helpful.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it would just be it would it's so important to uh for me to get reviews because it just allows this me to share this with more and more people and allows me to grow my business.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: So if you enjoy what I'm putting out there and you're getting a lot from the podcast, would you do me a huge favor and just leave a nice review for me, hopefully.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh and yeah, I'd I just so appreciate that.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um what else?
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what do we have upcoming?
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh babies.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, if you don't know, we're having a child.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, my my partner and I, we're having a baby girl.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, she's due this week.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: She's actually due on the weekend on Sunday.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: We're having uh non-medicated home birth.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, it goes that way.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: We have midwives coming.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: We have an amazing doula coming.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: We're so excited to be able to do that.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh, so I will I I I'll likely still be doing podcast episodes.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we'll see how things go.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh uh Grace, if you're in the community, Grace will be doing the support groups.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: I may jump into the support groups.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be away for 30 for four weeks from eternity.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh I'll still be kicking around.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: So send me an email if you want to work with us one to one.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a full team of incredible practitioners.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: Most of them have gone through RSD themselves.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got that one to one support available for you if you need it.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: Join the community.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: We're here for you.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for being here and listening today.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I hope you have a lovely rest of your day, and we'll see you in the next episode.