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Into The Weeds Podcast -Athena Hogan- Part 10 · Military Broadcast Radio | MBR Talk

0:22
Hello and welcome to Into the Weeds podcast.
0:24
You're on military broadcast radio.
0:26
I'm Amber. Thank you for joining me today.
0:29
Elora is upstairs wrangling the Beastie named Flanigan.
0:34
So unfortunately, she's not with us today, so hopefully my voice
0:39
doesn't go out. It's good to see you, Joy.
0:41
Thank you so much for being here.
0:43
And before we get into it, I actually wanted to play a video
0:51
because last week or actually not last week, but the week
0:55
before last or the week before that, I can't remember whenever
1:01
the last time I was here talking about Athena Hogan, we, we
1:08
stopped at the point where we were talking about how Harvey
1:11
Templeton had gone from his home all the way to Goran 11th to
1:17
drop off 2 trash bags after Athena had gone missing and was
1:22
murdered. So we're going to actually watch
1:26
a video of me going to that gas station and driving towards
1:31
Athena's home. I didn't quite make it because
1:34
we ended up helping somebody and you'll see that on the way.
1:39
But yeah, so that's what we're going.
1:42
What I'm going to show you is a video of us going from 11th and
1:46
Gore. It used to be the 711.
1:49
Now it's a Stripes going from 11th and Gore towards Athena
1:54
Hogan's house to try and see, you know what?
2:00
What did it look like for Harvey Templeton to go all the way, go
2:06
from all the way out there by the Sandpiper Inn and Rogers
2:09
Lane all the way to 11th and Gore?
2:13
And hey, it's good to see you snowflakes and fireflies and
2:21
let's see, boho, boho bobo. I'm really bad at reading these
2:28
names. So anyways, yeah, so that is
2:34
what we are going to do. So I'm going to stop it whenever
2:37
I need to, to just kind of narrate.
2:40
But here we go. Let me take this off.
3:12
OK, that trash can, I know I am almost positive that is not the
3:18
same trash can that existed in 1986.
3:21
But the trash can for that establishment has always been
3:25
there. So immediately when I heard that
3:28
he had dropped the trash there, I knew exactly where the trash
3:32
can was. So, oh, I don't know what's
3:35
going on. So now, so now This Is Us going
4:06
from the Stripes gas station and heading on Gore Blvd. towards
4:14
the Sandpiper in which no longer exists.
5:38
OK, I heard you guys are standing with Morbid.
5:43
Very sad. I am not standing with anybody.
5:47
I thanked Morbid for holding a fundraiser.
5:51
That's all I did. So I'm not standing with
5:54
anybody. That's just what it is.
6:20
You have to understand that he was one of the only people to
6:23
help me without any drama. Oh,
6:43
so we just passed the library and all of that stuff.
6:49
So that was on the right hand side and now we're going to make
6:52
a left on the 2nd St. and 2nd St.
6:56
Actually, if you look over to the left in the cream building,
7:01
that's across the street on the left, right behind, that is
7:05
actually where my mom used to hang out all the time.
7:09
See that cream building back there?
7:11
That's where my mom used to hang out all the time.
7:13
That was where her drug dealer was.
7:16
So that's yeah, I know that spot very well, unfortunately, and I
7:29
completely understand. He's he says a lot of things
7:31
that are cruel and and terrible, but you know, it is what it is.
7:37
And Yep, he's the only one that helped me with the fundraiser
7:42
and with no chaos, no drama, nothing.
7:59
So also Second Street used to be where all of the sex workers
8:04
hung out that were like noticeable.
8:09
There were also sex workers on Cash Rd. where the lot and
8:16
serial killer was active. And then out on the end of
8:20
Sheridan and Lee and the stoplight that we're coming to
8:27
is Ferris Ave. That's actually where I grew up.
8:33
Ferris Ave. is the street that I lived on for most of my
8:36
childhood. So if you look to the left, if
8:40
you turn left down there, you'll see Elmer Thomas Park and the
8:44
Prairie Dog Park. They're really cool.
8:47
And then go a little further and you'll run into Lawton High
8:51
School, and a little further than that was where my mom's
8:55
house was. She was not selling near the
9:05
shop. She was selling out way past
9:09
there out where we're driving to, but we end up not getting
9:12
there because we ended up helping somebody.
9:15
So, but I'm taking you out there anyways.
9:19
As far as we got right, left under the ramp to Cash Rd.
9:27
No, this was a fundraiser for school.
9:31
You know, once a year you have a fundraiser for your school and
9:34
she was out selling candy bars just like I was at that time and
9:39
afterwards, so. here on the right, this is what
10:13
stops us. But you'll see it here just a
10:16
second. OK.
10:18
We got a lady in a skirt pushing her car.
10:24
So that is what made us abandoned our mission.
10:28
Otherwise we would have continued.
10:31
So yeah, so anyways, I tried to get you guys footage of that,
10:38
but every time we get a lot and something happens.
10:41
So. So maybe the perpetrator knew
10:45
about the fundraiser. I mean, theoretically because
10:49
she had been there for the last couple of days doing the
10:55
fundraiser, going door to door for the last couple of days.
10:58
So no telling who knew, but also probably all the whole school
11:03
district was doing it. I would imagine so.
11:08
So every school would have been participating at that time.
11:11
I think they do one school fundraiser like that once
11:15
through the school board every year with all of the schools
11:19
participating. I could be completely wrong on
11:21
that, but that's just my opinion.
11:24
So let's see said we need to talk about cases like Athena.
11:30
You remove this case and have always oh, you remove her this
11:36
case and have always needed my heart to be whole for her.
11:39
Oh, OK. Sorry I'm bad at reading guys.
11:44
I've always wondered if he was watching her beforehand and knew
11:47
what was she was doing. If it was Harvey Templeton, he
11:50
knew what she was doing because she had been to his house the
11:54
day before to sell candy and he had bought some this next day
11:58
that she came around. He did not.
12:00
So I can see why you don't do the fundraisers anymore, as you
12:05
can't guarantee criminal record checks.
12:07
Hopefully a pair of adults could go with the children.
12:10
Yeah, but unfortunately, there's so many people who just aren't
12:14
responsible enough to actually do that with their children.
12:17
I was one of those people that grew up in the kind of household
12:22
fundraising can be a blessing and a curse.
12:24
Yeah. Yeah, totally.
12:27
OK, so we are going to get back into the preliminary hearing of
12:33
Harvey Templeton for the murder of Athena Hogan in 1987.
12:37
She was murdered October 1st of 1986, but this hearing does not
12:41
happen until 1987. So we left off with Detective
12:46
Belcher and he was being cross examined and he, he told us that
12:55
he was talking to Harvey Templeton and Harvey Templeton
12:58
had refused to give him a hair sample, a pubic head or hair
13:04
until the 31st, it looks like. So we're going to pick back up
13:08
with that. And oh, you meant a pair of
13:12
teachers or something? Yeah, that would be even worse.
13:15
I don't trust teachers. Remember, Ryan Anderson was a
13:18
teacher. So with that being said, let me
13:23
put this thing back up here. Hold on just a second.
13:28
OK, OK, so let me go back to comments.
13:35
Sorry, I'm talking to myself. OK, so we are picking up,
13:39
picking back up with the cross examination of Detective
13:45
Belcher. So he said he refused to give me
13:48
the hair, pubic hair, head hair. When did he do that?
13:53
On the 31st. He said he'd got on his bad side
13:56
and he wasn't going to do it. So we went and had a search
14:00
warrant done. So he wasn't fully cooperative?
14:03
No, he wasn't. Not like that he wasn't.
14:05
He just never did fight or anything.
14:08
Jump up, nothing. OK, but now did you pinpoint the
14:12
time that According to him that that Tina was there?
14:17
Yes, he said that it was around 5:30.
14:19
And he knew it to be that because there was this movie on
14:22
Toby Tyler spelled phonetically and it was about halfway over
14:26
and it came on at 5. It's a Walt Disney show and it
14:30
goes off at six. And he said it was after the
14:33
movie was half over that she came.
14:36
So it was after 530. OK.
14:39
And did you talk to his wife? Yes, I did.
14:43
When when she returned, I talked to her prior to talking to
14:47
Harvey that day. The second, I 3rd, I believe
14:51
second, I was over to her house. Either that or the third I
14:54
think, I don't remember the day I talked to her.
14:57
Did you talk and then did you talk to her about the garbage?
15:02
Yes, I did. She was surprised at what he
15:05
did. She's surprised at what he did
15:10
on the garbage. Yes, she was.
15:13
She say he ever done that before.
15:16
She said he hadn't ever done that.
15:19
Please Oats, stop it. Quit being rude.
15:24
She said he hadn't ever done that as far as taking the trash
15:28
away. And he had also told me that the
15:31
reason he took it to the dumpster was because the dogs
15:33
tore it up. So I approached her on that and
15:36
said, well, wouldn't the dogs have tore the bags up if he
15:39
hadn't have taken it? She says no, they didn't have
15:43
any problems with the dogs. So it contradicted what he told
15:46
us. So, Mr. Tannery, that's all I
15:50
have, Your Honor, The court. Anything else re cross
15:54
examination by Mr. Zelps? You sure he wasn't telling you
15:59
about the cats tearing up the garbage?
16:01
No, he said the dogs got into it and tore it up.
16:05
OK. He was batching it.
16:08
Maybe he cooked different than the wife did.
16:11
Maybe his food attracted them better.
16:13
What do you think about that? It's possible.
16:17
OK. Now, in the garage.
16:18
Did you look in the garage of that home?
16:21
I don't know if I actually did go in the garage.
16:24
I think it was blocked off. OK.
16:28
Couldn't put a car in there, could you?
16:30
No. OK, so it would have been
16:33
impossible for Harvey to abduct Tina Hogan Girl and pull his car
16:37
in the garage and put her in the trunk and driveway.
16:40
Couldn't do it in that garage, right?
16:43
Couldn't do it in the garage. No.
16:45
OK, Tina Hogan was a pretty good sized gal even though she was a
16:49
kid, though, wasn't she? I thought she was pretty tiny.
16:53
Pretty tiny. Do you know what her dimensions
16:56
or weight or anything was? No, just I sure don't be hard to
17:01
get her in a trash bag, wouldn't you?
17:03
And carry her guess. It would depend on how big the
17:07
trash bag is. That is true.
17:10
You know, I guess the first time somebody does something no one
17:14
else knows about it, we start saying it's suspicious, right?
17:18
Not necessarily. No further questions.
17:23
The court. OK, You're excused.
17:26
Rules and effect. Call your next witness, Mr.
17:29
Tannery. Greg Lord.
17:30
Send him in. Dawn, the court.
17:33
I've already sworn you, haven't I?
17:35
Witness Gregory Lord? Yes, Sir.
17:37
The court. OK, have a seat.
17:40
OK. Yeah.
17:43
Don't know what's going on, but I'm severely interested.
17:48
Well, this was 1986. So Gregory Lord called as a
17:56
witness on behalf of the state, having been first duly sworn,
17:59
testified on his oath as follows.
18:01
To wit, I'm going to put this in front of me so I can see it.
18:05
OK. Let me know if it messed up the
18:14
the image on the screen. OK.
18:19
Direct examination by Mr. Tannery.
18:23
State your name and occupation. Gregory Lord.
18:26
I'm a detective. Lawton Police Department.
18:29
And were you ever assigned to assist in the Tina Hogan
18:32
homicide case? Yes, Sir.
18:35
What was your involvement in that?
18:37
I assisted in a search of a residence, also took part in
18:41
running some evidence to Oklahoma City, the state lab
18:43
there. OK.
18:45
I previously marked and we've talked about states Exhibit 132
18:50
containing other states exhibits inside 33 and some others.
18:54
Are you familiar with that exhibit?
18:57
Yes, Sir. Can you identify it?
19:00
This is the evidence that I took up to Oklahoma to This is the
19:04
evidence that I took up to the Oklahoma City lab OK.
19:10
I did not the OSB lab Yes. OK And when did you do that?
19:17
Get my notes here. I have them out in front of me
19:19
be on November 5th, 1986. Where did you get it?
19:24
Lawton Police Department, from where there got this from the
19:29
evidence room. OK Was it in a sealed condition
19:33
at the time that you got it? Yes, Sir, Took it.
19:37
And when you got to Oklahoma City, who did you give it to up
19:41
there or do you know? I believe it was Anne Reid that
19:44
I gave that one to. OK and the contents that were in
19:50
it that were sealed inside at the time?
19:53
Yes, Sir. Were they ever opened while you
19:56
were going up there or anything? No, Sir.
19:59
All right. Actually, could they retest the
20:03
DNA? So they did retest the DNA.
20:06
It was sent in 2021 I believe was when I first started talking
20:12
to the cold case detective and I had I had started looking into
20:19
this case. Right after the detective had
20:23
sent the evidence to be tested to the OSBI crime lab again or
20:32
for the first time, I'm not sure.
20:34
And he thought that was extremely suspicious because
20:37
nobody had been coming around sniffing around this case for
20:40
over 30 years. And as soon as he submits the
20:44
DNA, here I come. So he was trying to figure out
20:47
what the heck was going on. So, so yes, there has been DNA
20:54
that or there has been evidence that has been sent off for DNA
20:59
testing, but we have no idea as to what any conclusions have
21:06
been brought from that testing. So hopefully eventually we will
21:11
find out. OK.
21:15
All right. Other than that evidence, did
21:17
you transmit any other evidence to up to the OSBI?
21:20
Oops. Sorry.
21:27
Yes, Sir. And what was that in regards to
21:30
this one? I took some sweepings up that
21:32
were removed from a vehicle. OK.
21:35
I don't have those here today, so I can't talk about them.
21:38
Also, you stated that you were involved in the search of a
21:42
whose house? Mr. Templeton's, is he here
21:46
today? Yes, Sir.
21:47
Identify him, please. He's sitting at the table here.
21:51
Defense table. Wearing what?
21:53
Brown coat, light tan shirt, striped tie.
21:56
OK. And when did that search take
21:59
place? The 31st of October, 1986.
22:02
OK. And what was your role in that?
22:05
Basically, I made a list of everything that was seized from
22:08
the residents. I did a sketch of the residents
22:10
showing where the items were removed from.
22:13
OK. And did you assist in helping
22:15
them make the return to the court clerk's office or I don't
22:20
remember if I brought the warrant back or who brought that
22:23
back now? OK, I'd have to look in regard
22:27
to that. On the return that's on file in
22:30
the court clerk's office. There's mentioned several items
22:34
I want to talk to you about. See if you remember any of
22:37
these. Did you find a whip rawhide type
22:40
in there? Yes, Sir.
22:43
OK, you remember that? What did that look like?
22:46
Oh, it's a a long, I call it a bull whip.
22:49
Possibly rawhide. OK, so you guys remember that I
22:54
had told the story of remembering the guy that lived
22:59
down the street from me having a bull whip and trying and chasing
23:03
me and trying to whip me with a a bull whip right at at the same
23:08
time. So it's confirmed that Harvey
23:11
did have a bull whip. So that's even more more things
23:18
to stack up against them. OK.
23:20
And did you find rawhide in a rope in a bedroom?
23:24
Yes, Sir. What did that look like?
23:26
Oh, it was it was a strand type rope.
23:28
Rawhide strands is what I'd have to call it.
23:32
And that was confiscated too. Yes, Sir.
23:35
And did you find a roll of duct tape?
23:37
Yes, Sir. What did that look like?
23:40
Well, it was a long roll, kind of dark green.
23:43
It's a really sticky type tape. And about what wide was that or
23:49
how wide was that, do you know? By guessing, I'd say probably
23:52
approximately maybe 2 inches. OK.
23:56
And you find a pair of tennis shoes?
23:58
Yes, Sir. And remember talking to Cecil
24:02
Davison about those. I was present when he looked at
24:05
them. I didn't I didn't specifically
24:07
talk to him about it. OK.
24:10
Why did you take those tennis shoes?
24:12
At the time when I when Detective Davison was there,
24:16
they were talking about the pattern on the bottom of the
24:18
tennis shoes. OK.
24:20
Did you confiscate some cord in the hallway floor next to the
24:23
kitchen entrance? There was some cord confiscated.
24:27
I'd have to review my notes to see exactly where it was.
24:30
You don't remember, have an independent recollection of what
24:33
it looked like or anything? No, Sir, not not right off hand.
24:38
OK. And you found a paddle on there?
24:41
Yes, Sir. What did that look like?
24:43
Well, it was pieces. It was wood had a similar like a
24:47
point towards the end of it. It's kind of hard to describe
24:50
it. It's not something that it was
24:53
it was made nice. I mean it was one of those nice
24:56
type paddles and listed on the return is black string from the
25:01
hallway. Do you remember that there was
25:04
some string laying there on the floor From what I remember.
25:08
You don't remember what it looked like or anything?
25:10
No, Sir. And there's ACB antenna that was
25:13
taken. Yes, Sir.
25:15
Did you see that? Yes, Sir.
25:17
What did that look like? It's a fairly long whip type
25:20
antenna usually found to be mounted on the bumper of a car.
25:24
OK. And listed also is some green
25:27
colored duct tape. In fact, there was two different
25:29
rolls of duct tape. Yes, Sir.
25:32
You remember two different roles?
25:34
Yes, Sir. Was there, were there, were they
25:38
the same or different type? Mr. Zelps?
25:41
Judge, I'm going to. I have an objection, Your Honor.
25:44
My position is, is if Mr. Tannery's wanting to enter, he's
25:49
kind of doing my discovery. It's fine, but I just don't
25:53
think it's proper. I don't know what the relevance
25:56
of this will be unless he intends to introduce this
25:59
information. The court, well, I can't
26:02
anticipate his theories of his of his case, but Mr. Zelps OK,
26:09
the court at this point, these are relevant questions and
26:13
answers. Mr. Zelps OK by Mr. Tannery, do
26:19
you remember my last question? Yes, Sir.
26:22
Are they similar types or different types appeared similar
26:26
in nature to my recollection. Also listed is a small black
26:30
leash. Do you remember that?
26:32
Yes, Sir. What was what did that look
26:35
like? Be kind of hard to describe.
26:37
It was in it was in a tote bag. I can't tell you much more about
26:40
it. Also, it lists a green cord.
26:43
Do you understand? Do you remember that one?
26:46
Yes. Let me refer to my note here
26:47
real quick. Did you make a note on that
26:50
specific item? Well, I have my list here of the
26:53
items that I took out or that I left out I listed on the House.
26:59
Would you repeat the question please?
27:00
Green cord is listed on the return.
27:03
Yes, Sir. I remember green.
27:04
It was green cord. It was also in a tote bag.
27:07
Do you remember what it looked like though?
27:09
No, Sir. OK.
27:11
Do you have to look at it or you'd have to look at it?
27:16
You'd have listed You have listed on the return or is
27:20
listed a police slapper and then a green slicker.
27:24
Yes Sir. What are those?
27:26
The green slicker it like a rain type parka waterproof and the
27:31
slapper. It's it's a standard police
27:34
style slapper that you can buy. It's basically it's kind of like
27:38
a leather. It's kind of like a leather and
27:41
it's got oh, metal in the very end of it.
27:44
OK, after conducting this search, who actually took all
27:47
this evidence? Do you remember?
27:50
Yes, Sir. Who was that?
27:52
It was packed there by Anne Reid.
27:53
With the exception of maybe 3 items, everything was
27:56
transported by Anne. OK.
28:00
She was there. And there was some other items
28:02
taken like the carpet fibers again and so forth.
28:04
Were there not? Yes, Sir.
28:07
Which police officer? OK, Anne Reid took all of these
28:10
items. Are you saying yes, Sir, at that
28:13
time? Yes, Sir.
28:15
So she took them directly? Yes, Sir.
28:18
For what purpose? She took them to the lab To take
28:22
to the lab in Oklahoma City. OK Mr. Tannery, I think that's
28:27
all I have for this witness at this time.
28:29
Mr. Zelps. Thank you.
28:31
Cross examination by Mr. Zelps. Detective Lord, Let's start at
28:37
the very first. On October 1st, 1986.
28:40
Did you go out to the place or the scene where the body was?
28:44
No, Sir. OK.
28:46
When was your first involvement in Tina Hogan murder case?
28:51
My my very first involvement was the night.
28:54
The second time Mr. Taylor's car and Mr. Taylor were down there
28:58
at the station. All right.
29:00
What did you do with the car? Very little, to be honest with
29:04
you. It was.
29:06
I was assisting on the search, but I didn't much get into the
29:09
car at all. We removed some cassette tapes
29:12
from the car and listened to those, and that was about the
29:15
extent of my search on it. OK.
29:18
And anything unusual on those tapes?
29:20
What was on those tapes? Mostly music.
29:23
And there was a few tapes in there that we sounded like Mr.
29:27
Taylor's voice on them. What were they?
29:30
What was them? What was the conversation on
29:33
those tapes? I'd have to call it maybe
29:37
playing out a skit. Playing out a skit?
29:41
Uh huh. Was he by himself?
29:44
It was the only voice I heard on it.
29:48
Who has possession of those? They were at the Police
29:51
Department. I don't know who has possession
29:53
of it now. The skit, Did it involve
29:56
kidnapping and killing a young girl?
29:59
Not the one I listened to. No, Sir.
30:02
What? Tell us, please, what the theme
30:05
of the one that you listened to was.
30:08
The one I listened to had to do with where the gentleman was in
30:12
a mobile home or trailer and there were some people outside
30:16
with weapons and he was trying to figure out how to get out of
30:19
the place and stay alive. That's what Mr. Taylor's Did you
30:23
get to talk to Mr. Taylor? No, Sir, I didn't talk to him.
30:27
You never have talked to him? No, Sir.
30:31
OK. It was reported to you.
30:33
It sounded like his voice, though.
30:35
It sounded like it. There were some other tapes
30:38
there. What were some of the other
30:40
themes of those skits that were being played out?
30:43
I didn't listen to those other ones.
30:45
I couldn't tell you who listened to them.
30:48
And Lord. OK, That's your wife, right?
30:52
Yes, Sir. OK, now you present.
30:57
OK, now, were you present when they researched the vehicle part
31:02
of the time? Yes, Sir.
31:04
They take some evidence out of it.
31:06
Yes, Sir. Take some duct tape.
31:09
Duct tape? I I don't know about the duct
31:13
tape. How about electrical extension
31:15
cord? I wasn't there when they took
31:17
that out. No, Sir.
31:19
Well, let me just ask you, it would be easier.
31:21
What did you see them take take out of it?
31:25
The basic most of the time I was there was when they were trying
31:29
to lift some prints off of the back window.
31:32
OK, and those are the famous Jack Parton footprint, is that
31:36
correct? Yes, Sir.
31:38
Famous now, aren't they? Yes, Sir.
31:41
OK, now, did you assist them doing that?
31:44
No, Sir. OK, so we need to stop there for
31:49
a minute. My back is burning really,
31:52
really bad and it started burning really bad when I was on
31:57
stream with Millennial. So I may only be able to do an
32:00
hour today, but so those famous footprints, I started out the
32:08
series telling you guys that I believe that those footprints
32:13
were mine because Robert Taylor, for whatever reason, his car
32:20
used to be parked outside of my grandmother's house.
32:24
Was it because Robert came to the house?
32:26
I don't know. I remember meeting him several
32:29
times, but I don't remember where or what the context was.
32:34
Or was it because his brother drove his car to my
32:37
grandmother's house because his brother was dating my cousin and
32:42
my cousin lived with my grandmother at the time?
32:45
And I was seven years old when this happened in 1986.
32:53
And when I first heard about this case, I was told that
32:59
Robert got arrested because of the footprints.
33:05
And I remember immediately starting to shake and having my
33:11
first experience of extreme anxiety.
33:18
I had my first anxiety attack when I was 7 years old.
33:22
And to where, you know, your whole body kind of goes numb and
33:28
you don't know how to think. And you're just kind of like in
33:32
this like little bubble or whatever.
33:36
So when I heard about it, I thought, oh, those are my
33:39
footprints and I'm going to prison for the rest of my life
33:42
for murder. That was my seven-year old
33:45
logic, you know? So yeah, those footprints could
33:49
possibly be mine. I don't know for sure, but I
33:54
have told the detective so he knows that.
34:00
But yeah, so those famous footprints, they are famous.
34:05
I have tried an acupuncturist. I have tried absolutely
34:09
everything. I was on all kinds of
34:14
medications and all kinds of different things.
34:16
What they did was I got, I get Botox for migraines and not this
34:22
last time, but the time before that when I got some Botox, they
34:25
hit a nerve and now it's just like hurting so bad.
34:29
And for some reason, it gets really bad when I'm sitting here
34:33
at the desk. And I don't know why, but yeah.
34:38
So those possibly could be my footprints.
34:40
I have no idea. That will remain to be seen
34:43
until they bring this to trial or whatever.
34:47
So. OK.
34:50
What was your next involvement in the case?
34:53
I took some evidence to Oklahoma City, to the OSBI lab.
34:57
OK Was that carpet fibers? Yeah, there was some.
35:01
There was some stuff that I took up.
35:04
I have to review my notes that I'd had that had to do with Mr.
35:09
Templeton and Mr. Taylor. OK.
35:12
I'd like you to look because I'd like to know what they had up
35:15
there on. Mr. Templeton, could you look at
35:17
your notes? Yes, Sir.
35:20
And find out what you took up there.
35:22
Did you find out? Yes, Sir.
35:24
What did you take up there? Vacuumings and hair from Dodge
35:28
Charger 2 plaster casts that were taken from the crime scene
35:32
and some photo negatives. Do you know where the photo
35:35
negatives came from? No, Sir.
35:38
Do you know what was on those? No, Sir, I don't know what they
35:42
are. OK, you went to Oklahoma City.
35:46
What did you do in the case again?
35:49
I took some other evidence up to the Oklahoma City OSBI lab,
35:53
which was one envelope containing hair samples.
35:57
OK. And were there ever any hair
35:59
samples, hair samples of Robert Taylor that you know of that was
36:03
taken up there? Not by me, no, Sir.
36:06
OK. Anything that you did, I know
36:10
I'm going to talk about the search in a minute.
36:12
But up to up to that time, up to the search, Any other
36:16
involvement? Did you knock on doors out there
36:19
in the neighborhood? Yes, Sir.
36:21
I did some canvassing. Everybody did that.
36:24
Yes, Sir. Did you find out anybody?
36:28
Did you ever talk to anybody that had seen Tina Hogan alive
36:32
after 5:30? Not that I recall from me.
36:36
No, Sir. OK.
36:38
Did you talk to Debbie Stoddard? Deborah Stoddard?
36:41
I might have. The name doesn't ring a bell
36:44
with me. Hold on.
36:50
The name doesn't ring a bell with me.
36:52
We talked to quite a few people out there.
36:54
OK, I know that was. Did you work those apartments up
36:58
there to Regency Arms? No, Sir, you didn't do that.
37:04
The search when you got there, Anne Reed was there kind of
37:08
directing what she wanted for herself in the way of collecting
37:11
fibers and things, is that correct?
37:14
Yes, Sir. And she, she pretty much told
37:16
you all that she needed and that she was going to try and do
37:20
that, right? Yes, Sir.
37:22
OK, now I was wondering the tape there in duct tape that that he
37:27
had in the house. I was wondering, you got any of
37:29
that duct kind of duct tape out at your place?
37:34
Not that color. OK.
37:36
Duct tape is pretty common, right?
37:37
Yes, Sir. Did it look like it had been
37:40
recently used or that or that? Possibly to tell.
37:45
I couldn't say. OK.
37:46
The paddle. Are you talking about a boat
37:49
paddle? No, Sir.
37:50
No, Sir. Like a paddle like we used to
37:54
get on our tails when we were kids.
37:57
Yes Sir, except it's finished up, shined up and made to look
38:02
nice. Right?
38:03
It looks nice. Any blood or anything on it?
38:06
Not that I could see. Has anybody been paddled by the
38:10
principal? I was paddled by the principal
38:13
in the 4th grade for not doing math homework.
38:17
So, OK, it was collected now on these shoes.
38:28
There was a cast in these shoes. Have you ever heard anybody make
38:33
an identification of the cast Prince matching those tennis
38:36
shoes? No, Sir.
38:38
OK, As a matter of fact, they attempted to.
38:41
You know that Cecil Davison, he couldn't make a match on them.
38:45
You knew that, didn't you? No, Sir, I knew that.
38:49
He attempted to. What was the what was the
38:53
conclusion then? What conclusions did he draw
38:55
from that attempt to match them? I got to take a drink.
39:03
Well, I didn't talk to Detective Davidson that much about those
39:07
other than the conversation that was going on at the house that
39:10
night doing the search warrant. What was the conversation that
39:15
the pattern on the tennis shoes look similar in nature to what
39:19
was seen out there at the crime scene?
39:22
OK, You've studied about those types of things.
39:25
You've got to have something unique, a nick or a cut or
39:30
something because you've got lots of shoes and that's the
39:33
only way you can ever make good matches.
39:35
Right? That's correct.
39:37
OK. Tote bag.
39:39
Now, did you get to talk to Mr. Templeton?
39:42
No, Sir. Never have.
39:44
No, Sir. The wife was out there that
39:47
night, wasn't she? Yes, Sir.
39:49
All right. I assume it was that night.
39:51
What time was it when you all come and made the search?
39:55
I believe late afternoon. Was there a reason to wait until
40:00
late afternoon to search the lady's house?
40:04
I couldn't answer that, Mister Zalps.
40:05
No, you weren't in charge. No, Sir.
40:09
Who was in charge of saying when all you were going to go out
40:14
there? I left.
40:16
I left when Captain Ferguson said go.
40:19
He was really running the show, wasn't he?
40:22
Yes, Sir. He was the boss.
40:24
He was in charge of this investigation anyhow, wasn't he?
40:28
Well, he's the captain. OK.
40:31
Out there. That tote bag.
40:33
Did you find out what that tote bag was used for?
40:37
No, Sir. Not myself.
40:40
Did you? Did you?
40:41
Hold on, did you you didn't ask the wife and she what the bag
40:46
was used for or anything like that?
40:49
I didn't. I didn't talk to the wife about
40:52
it. Did you find out what the bag
40:54
was used for? No, Sir, you didn't.
40:58
I thought you might have. Did your wife find out that in
41:03
her investigation that that was the bag that he carried to work?
41:08
He was a garbage man and had some stuff in there he used.
41:14
That was another thing. Harvey Templeton is a trash man,
41:18
right? And he opts to go and take his
41:22
trash to a gas station. I don't know.
41:25
It's just weird. A gas station that's far away
41:28
from him. So I couldn't answer that.
41:34
I don't know. Did you find anything out there
41:36
that they that any way would lead you to be suspicious of of
41:42
it for some reason? I mean, or just ordinary stuff
41:44
people have in their house. And once we start dreaming up
41:47
scenarios, it all becomes important, but not until then.
41:52
I'm sorry, I'm not clear on which aspect you're referring
41:55
to. Was there any all right?
41:59
Was there anything out there that was out of the ordinary?
42:02
Any type of evidence you all collected in your mind?
42:05
Something says that is not right.
42:08
Well in regards to the investigation, a couple of the
42:11
items that I saw out there they they would have to say were
42:15
suspicious. Yes.
42:17
OK. What were they?
42:18
Well, for one, the slicker, the slicker in the tote bag, yes.
42:23
OK. What was suspicious or what
42:25
brought that to you? Your or what did you what
42:29
conclusions did you draw? Well, when the slicker, excuse
42:33
me, when the slicker was removed from the bag there, it had a
42:36
substance on it that, you know, I thought appeared to be maybe
42:40
blood. And in the bedroom where Mr.
42:44
Templeton kept most of his stuff, there was, I guess you'd
42:47
call it a rifle gun case. It's leather type, not the
42:51
solid, but the leather type. And that had what appeared to be
42:55
blood on it, too. OK.
42:58
And you seize those? Yes, Sir.
43:01
And they've been submitted to the OSBI, correct?
43:05
Correct. As of this?
43:08
As of this date. Have you heard if that was blood
43:11
or not? No, I have not.
43:13
No one knows. Let me look and see.
43:16
Mr. Zelps. Have just a second, Your Honor.
43:19
The court. Sure.
43:21
A short time later, the following proceedings were had,
43:23
to wit, by Mr. Zelps talking about a pistol case where you
43:28
put a pistol in, you zip it up. This was this is more like a
43:33
rifle type case for a rifle. You can put a rifle in it and
43:38
zip it up, or a shotgun or a shotgun.
43:41
Yes, Sir. OK.
43:42
What color was it? It was white from what I recall.
43:46
It was something From what I recall, it was something else,
43:51
maybe an off white. It had some kind of design on it
43:54
too, as far as colors. Defendant Templeton rifle case.
44:02
Mr. Zelps, No, you can't ask the questions.
44:05
Let me do it. Sorry, Judge.
44:08
Just a second, Your Honor. A short time later, the
44:11
following proceedings were had, to wit, the court.
44:14
This might go a little faster if I had let Mr. Templeton ask
44:18
questions, but I guess we can't do that, huh, Mr. Zelps?
44:22
I'd like to take a break every once in a while, but I'm afraid
44:25
he'll do better than me. And I figure out and figure out
44:29
all that money that might be getting paid to me.
44:32
Wouldn't wouldn't be worth it. Might be doing that.
44:35
All right, here's what I'm looking for you from, your
44:37
honor. Just a second, Mr. Zelps.
44:41
There was some metal rings taken from the northeast bedroom.
44:44
That what significance did the metal rings have at the time
44:49
that they were taken? They could be used as what you
44:52
might say, as handcuffs. OK.
44:55
There was a wooden saw taken. I mean a saw with a wooden
44:58
handle. What was the Do you know what
45:01
that was? What that had to do with
45:04
anything? No, Sir.
45:06
Was it vinyl? It could be vinyl.
45:10
OK, You said that that what was suspicious?
45:14
The blood, what appeared to be blood on a rifle case.
45:17
When you said there was what appeared to be blood on
45:20
something else, what was it? It was on the on the green
45:26
slicker. The green slicker?
45:27
Yes. OK.
45:28
And those were those have all been submitted?
45:32
Yes, Sir. Find out whatever's on those is
45:36
on there. Right.
45:37
Correct. Anything else out there that
45:40
seems suspicious to you? Something something that just
45:43
didn't seem right on my part. No, Sir.
45:47
Now, after the search out there, what did you do?
45:52
I mean, not necessarily that night or that moment, but in the
45:55
relationship to this investigation.
45:58
I put some items on property receipts later that night at the
46:02
Police Department. OK.
46:03
OK. What did you do then in regards
46:06
to the sketch? Again?
46:07
I said I did the sketch at the residence.
46:10
I also did another one when I got back to the station.
46:14
That would make it a little clearer as far as how everything
46:18
was laid out in the residence. OK.
46:21
Did you see anything out there that indicated any kind of
46:24
struggles or anything like that? I couldn't tell.
46:28
OK, let me ask you this. Did you ever do any
46:31
investigation? Did you do any work, follow up
46:34
work concerning Robert Taylor, try to run down his alibis?
46:39
Did you ever do any of that? Not much, no.
46:42
You said not much. Was there some that you did do?
46:46
I talked to a few people on the telephone about him.
46:48
And do you recall who you talked to?
46:52
No, not the names. Right off the top of my head.
46:54
No, Sir. Did it?
46:55
Would you have those notes somewhere?
46:57
Yes, Sir. Can I come visit with you and
47:00
see whatever they are? Yes, Sir.
47:03
OK, now do you recall if he checked out or if he didn't
47:08
check out? OK, now do you recall if he
47:11
checked out or if he didn't check out?
47:14
The stuff I checked into, we just we didn't come up with
47:18
anything on him. OK.
47:21
You didn't, you couldn't, you couldn't say that.
47:23
You're saying that his alibi didn't check out?
47:26
No, Sir. That's not what I'm saying, OK.
47:29
I'm saying on the alibi that he had given, I assisted somewhat
47:34
in retracing his steps. And also as far as checking for
47:38
any possibility of fibers, after we got this information
47:41
concerning fibers, I checked into that.
47:45
But as far as anything else, no, Mr. Zelps, I don't believe I
47:49
have any further questions. Just for a second.
47:53
No further questions, Mr. Tannery.
47:58
No further questions. Ask him to remain outside for a
48:01
few minutes. The court.
48:02
All right, Your excuse? The rules still on effect.
48:06
I'm going to make some motions now.
48:09
The court. Go ahead.
48:11
Mr. Zelps. I'm listening.
48:12
Mr. Tannery, I'm going to move to admit a lot of evidence right
48:16
now and move to have introduced to begin with the photographs
48:20
which are State's Exhibit one through 5.
48:25
Oh, I think 5 through 15. Judge the court.
48:29
OK, Mr. Zups, no objections to any photographs, Your Honor, the
48:34
court. All right, that's that.
48:36
Mister Tannery. 5 through 15. Mr. Tannery, next I shall move
48:42
to admit into evidence State's Exhibit 1819 and 20.
48:47
Mr. Zelps. No objection purpose for this
48:49
hearing. The Court all right.
48:51
States 1819 and 20 are admitted. Mr. Tannery next State would
48:56
move to admit into evidence States Exhibit 394042 and 43.
49:01
Mr. Zelps. That would be the clothing.
49:04
Mr. Tannery, clothing of Tina and the sheet.
49:07
Mr. Zelps. Judge, we've got a chain of
49:11
custody problem there. I'd object.
49:14
I don't think it's been properly shown how it got back here.
49:17
We know it got delivered to the OSBI, but nothing.
49:20
We haven't had anything from there.
49:22
Don't know. And it's not the court.
49:25
Yeah, that's that's sustained. You're missing an element there.
49:28
Chain of custody, Mr. Tannery. OK, then I'll withhold that and
49:34
three other until we get and read here.
49:37
The court. OK.
49:38
Is that all you want to move to introduce at this time then Mr.
49:43
Tannery? Yeah, I'll wait for a few
49:44
minutes on the rest. The court.
49:46
OK, let's take about 15 minutes about to burn up in here.
49:51
Upon reconvening the following proceedings were had to wit.
49:55
So we're going to stop there. Sorry guys, I know it's early,
50:01
but I am hurting really bad and the medicine I took obviously
50:07
didn't help. So my edibles, so that's what I
50:13
use for medicine because I don't want to use any of those opioids
50:18
and stuff like that. That stuff was terrible for so
50:21
long, but yeah, OK, well, I think snowflakes and Fireflies
50:31
said I'm hearing the 1940s mobster boys.
50:33
Don't make me smack you with my flicker, sweetheart.
50:36
Yeah, no, I know. No, I was thinking the same
50:40
thing. There was a lot of old timey
50:44
talk and probably the way that the the lady wrote it up to the
50:50
court reporter. I'm sure it was pretty hard for.
50:53
Thank you, Joy for being in here and running everything so
50:57
smoothly for me. I really appreciate it and I
51:00
really appreciate everybody being in here.
51:04
Claire Louise Pinckney Joy, let's see BZB, snowflakes and
51:13
fireflies, Let's see who else was in here earlier.
51:18
Just Jamie. OK, so thank you everybody for
51:26
being here. And next week, we will pick back
51:30
up with Anne Reid's testimony. I'm extremely interested to hear
51:34
what Anne Reid has to say. She was one of the top dogs, it
51:39
looks like, at the OSBI, so maybe not.
51:43
I'm just projecting onto her. I'm feeling like Anne Reed was,
51:47
you know, a power woman. That's what I'm assigning to her
51:50
right now. I don't know if that's true or
51:52
not, but OK. Well, I'm going to go and I hope
51:56
that everybody has had a really great day and night whenever
52:02
you're hearing this on the replay, and please go out and do
52:06
something good to change the world for the better.
52:09
Bye everybody. Hi, I'm Beaker with Military
52:14
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