Latest / Deep Transformation / Our Deepest Knowing: Awakening to Pure Being and Pure Awareness with A. H. Almaas (Part 2)

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Our Deepest Knowing: Awakening to Pure Being and Pure Awareness with A. H. Almaas (Part 2) · Deep Transformation

• 0:00
  Welcome
• 0:00
  to
• 0:00
  part
• 0:01
  two
• 0:01
  of
• 0:01
  dialogue
• 0:02
  13
• 0:03
  with
• 0:03
  A.H.
• 0:04
  Almaas,
• 0:04
  where
• 0:05
  we
• 0:05
  continue
• 0:05
  to
• 0:06
  explore
• 0:06
  the
• 0:07
  knowing
• 0:07
  side
• 0:08
  of
• 0:08
  being
• 0:08
  itself
• 0:10
  and
• 0:10
  where
• 0:10
  mind
• 0:11
  comes
• 0:11
  from.
• 0:16
  Welcome
• 0:16
  to
• 0:17
  Deep
• 0:18
  Self,
• 0:18
  Society,
• 0:19
  Spirit
• 0:20
  life
• 0:20
  enhancing,
• 0:21
  paradigm
• 0:22
  rattling
• 0:22
  conversations
• 0:23
  with
• 0:23
  cutting
• 0:24
  edge
• 0:24
  thinkers,
• 0:24
  contemplatives
• 0:25
  and
• 0:26
  activists.
• 0:26
  With
• 0:26
  Dr.
• 0:27
  Roger
• 0:27
  Walsh
• 0:28
  and
• 0:28
  John
• 0:28
  Dupuy.
• 0:32
  And
• 0:32
  that
• 0:32
  pure
• 0:33
  translucency
• 0:34
  of
• 0:35
  pure
• 0:35
  awareness.
• 0:35
  I
• 0:35
  call
• 0:36
  it
• 0:36
  pure
• 0:36
  awareness
• 0:36
  instead
• 0:37
  of
• 0:37
  pure
• 0:37
  presence.
• 0:39
  There's
• 0:40
  no
• 0:40
  knowing
• 0:40
  of
• 0:40
  what
• 0:41
  we
• 0:41
  are
• 0:41
  aware
• 0:41
  of.
• 0:42
  There's
• 0:43
  awareness
• 0:45
  of
• 0:45
  everything
• 0:46
  without
• 0:46
  knowing
• 0:46
  what
• 0:46
  we
• 0:47
  are
• 0:47
  aware
• 0:47
  of.
• 0:48
  There's
• 0:48
  no
• 0:48
  knowing
• 0:49
  of
• 0:49
  existence
• 0:49
  even.
• 0:50
  It's
• 0:50
  just
• 0:50
  that
• 0:51
  space,
• 0:51
  no
• 0:52
  knowing
• 0:52
  of
• 0:52
  existence.
• 0:53
  There's
• 0:53
  just
• 0:53
  awareness,
• 0:57
  awareness,
• 0:58
  aware
• 0:58
  of
• 0:58
  itself
• 0:59
  as
• 0:59
  awareness.
• 1:00
  But
• 1:00
  it
• 1:00
  doesn't
• 1:01
  know
• 1:01
  it
• 1:01
  is
• 1:01
  awareness.
• 1:02
  When
• 1:02
  you
• 1:03
  are
• 1:03
  purely
• 1:03
  in
• 1:04
  the
• 1:04
  experience,
• 1:05
  there
• 1:06
  isn't
• 1:06
  really,
• 1:07
  you
• 1:07
  know,
• 1:07
  knowing,
• 1:08
  it
• 1:08
  is
• 1:08
  awareness.
• 1:09
  It's
• 1:09
  just
• 1:09
  awareness.
• 1:10
  In
• 1:10
  fact,
• 1:11
  I
• 1:11
  mean,
• 1:11
  that's
• 1:11
  the
• 1:13
  reason
• 1:13
  why
• 1:15
  some
• 1:15
  meditators
• 1:16
  talk
• 1:16
  about
• 1:16
  how
• 1:17
  they
• 1:17
  go
• 1:17
  to
• 1:18
  meditation
• 1:18
  and
• 1:19
  they
• 1:19
  go
• 1:19
  to.
• 1:20
  It's
• 1:20
  non
• 1:20
  conceptual,
• 1:22
  they
• 1:22
  come
• 1:22
  out
• 1:22
  of
• 1:22
  it.
• 1:22
  They
• 1:23
  don't
• 1:23
  remember
• 1:23
  what
• 1:24
  happened,
• 1:26
  they
• 1:26
  don't
• 1:26
  know
• 1:26
  how
• 1:26
  long
• 1:27
  it's
• 1:27
  been.
• 1:28
  Because
• 1:29
  you
• 1:29
  need
• 1:29
  concept
• 1:30
  to
• 1:30
  know,
• 1:30
  you
• 1:31
  need
• 1:31
  knowing.
• 1:32
  If
• 1:32
  you
• 1:33
  get
• 1:33
  to
• 1:33
  the
• 1:33
  space,
• 1:33
  there's
• 1:34
  no
• 1:34
  knowing.
• 1:35
  There's
• 1:35
  no
• 1:35
  knowing
• 1:36
  of
• 1:36
  time,
• 1:36
  no
• 1:37
  knowing
• 1:37
  space,
• 1:37
  no
• 1:38
  knowing
• 1:38
  how
• 1:38
  long
• 1:39
  or
• 1:39
  short.
• 1:40
  I
• 1:40
  mean,
• 1:40
  you
• 1:41
  come
• 1:41
  out
• 1:41
  of
• 1:41
  it,
• 1:41
  you
• 1:41
  just
• 1:42
  feel
• 1:42
  fresh
• 1:43
  and
• 1:43
  clean.
• 1:44
  So
• 1:45
  how
• 1:45
  do
• 1:45
  you
• 1:46
  remember
• 1:46
  it?
• 1:48
  Well,
• 1:48
  I
• 1:49
  mean,
• 1:50
  first
• 1:50
  of
• 1:50
  all,
• 1:52
  it's
• 1:52
  a
• 1:52
  good
• 1:53
  question.
• 1:54
  When
• 1:54
  we
• 1:54
  are
• 1:55
  in
• 1:55
  pure
• 1:55
  awareness,
• 1:58
  how
• 1:58
  do
• 1:58
  we
• 1:59
  know
• 1:59
  it's
• 1:59
  pure
• 1:59
  awareness?
• 2:01
  Awareness
• 2:02
  itself
• 2:02
  doesn't
• 2:02
  have
• 2:03
  knowing.
• 2:06
  And
• 2:06
  in
• 2:06
  pure
• 2:07
  awareness,
• 2:07
  and
• 2:08
  completely
• 2:08
  pure
• 2:08
  awareness,
• 2:09
  I
• 2:09
  call
• 2:09
  it
• 2:09
  the
• 2:09
  nameless
• 2:11
  because
• 2:12
  you
• 2:12
  can't
• 2:13
  name
• 2:13
  it.
• 2:13
  Because
• 2:14
  there's
• 2:14
  no
• 2:15
  knowing
• 2:15
  of
• 2:15
  any
• 2:15
  kind.
• 2:17
  But
• 2:17
  you
• 2:17
  know,
• 2:18
  calling
• 2:18
  it
• 2:18
  nameless,
• 2:19
  giving
• 2:19
  it
• 2:19
  a
• 2:19
  name
• 2:19
  in
• 2:20
  some
• 2:20
  sense
• 2:20
  you
• 2:20
  can't
• 2:21
  help
• 2:21
  but
• 2:21
  give.
• 2:22
  You
• 2:23
  know,
• 2:23
  even
• 2:23
  calling
• 2:23
  it
• 2:24
  nameless,
• 2:24
  it's
• 2:24
  giving
• 2:24
  it
• 2:25
  a
• 2:25
  name.
• 2:27
  You
• 2:27
  see
• 2:28
  what
• 2:28
  I
• 2:28
  realized
• 2:29
  at
• 2:29
  some
• 2:29
  point,
• 2:30
  first
• 2:30
  of
• 2:31
  all,
• 2:32
  awareness.
• 2:33
  For
• 2:33
  a
• 2:33
  while
• 2:33
  I
• 2:34
  don't
• 2:34
  know
• 2:34
  what
• 2:35
  I
• 2:35
  was
• 2:35
  experiencing.
• 2:36
  It
• 2:36
  was
• 2:37
  just
• 2:37
  awareness
• 2:37
  of
• 2:38
  everything
• 2:38
  without
• 2:39
  knowing.
• 2:39
  I'm
• 2:40
  aware
• 2:40
  of
• 2:40
  everything,
• 2:41
  just
• 2:41
  awareness.
• 2:43
  And
• 2:44
  at
• 2:44
  some
• 2:44
  point
• 2:45
  I
• 2:45
  recognize,
• 2:46
  I
• 2:47
  know
• 2:48
  it
• 2:48
  is
• 2:48
  pure
• 2:49
  awareness
• 2:50
  because
• 2:51
  in
• 2:51
  some
• 2:52
  place
• 2:53
  in
• 2:53
  it,
• 2:54
  knowingness,
• 2:56
  a
• 2:56
  sliver
• 2:56
  of
• 2:56
  knowingness
• 2:57
  shows
• 2:57
  up
• 2:59
  in
• 3:00
  some
• 3:00
  part
• 3:00
  of
• 3:00
  the
• 3:01
  expanse,
• 3:03
  right?
• 3:04
  Some
• 3:05
  small
• 3:05
  region
• 3:06
  of
• 3:06
  it
• 3:06
  manifests
• 3:07
  the
• 3:07
  presence
• 3:09
  which
• 3:09
  has
• 3:09
  knowing
• 3:10
  and
• 3:11
  that
• 3:11
  knows
• 3:11
  the
• 3:12
  awareness.
• 3:12
  Then
• 3:15
  there
• 3:15
  has
• 3:15
  to
• 3:15
  be
• 3:15
  knowingness
• 3:16
  to
• 3:16
  know
• 3:16
  awareness.
• 3:17
  But
• 3:17
  knowingness
• 3:18
  means
• 3:19
  something
• 3:20
  about
• 3:20
  the
• 3:21
  next
• 3:21
  dimension.
• 3:22
  Dimension
• 3:22
  present
• 3:23
  has
• 3:23
  to
• 3:23
  be
• 3:24
  present.
• 3:26
  You
• 3:27
  see,
• 3:27
  in
• 3:27
  most
• 3:27
  spiritual
• 3:28
  teaching
• 3:29
  you
• 3:29
  don't
• 3:30
  differentiate
• 3:30
  these
• 3:30
  two
• 3:31
  dimensions.
• 3:32
  They
• 3:32
  have
• 3:33
  pure
• 3:33
  awareness
• 3:34
  and
• 3:35
  pure
• 3:35
  being
• 3:36
  together.
• 3:38
  That's
• 3:38
  I
• 3:38
  think
• 3:38
  what
• 3:39
  Sakshan
• 3:39
  does
• 3:40
  has
• 3:41
  pure
• 3:41
  presence
• 3:41
  and
• 3:42
  pure
• 3:42
  awareness
• 3:43
  as
• 3:43
  inseparable.
• 3:45
  One
• 3:46
  dimension,
• 3:48
  this
• 3:48
  teaching.
• 3:49
  They
• 3:49
  appear
• 3:49
  two
• 3:50
  dimensions.
• 3:50
  They
• 3:50
  can
• 3:50
  be
• 3:51
  unified,
• 3:52
  become
• 3:52
  one,
• 3:52
  convergent
• 3:53
  dimensions.
• 3:55
  So
• 3:55
  awareness
• 3:56
  that
• 3:56
  knows
• 3:56
  itself
• 3:57
  then,
• 3:58
  because
• 3:58
  there's
• 3:59
  being,
• 3:59
  but
• 3:59
  it's
• 4:00
  also
• 4:00
  aware
• 4:00
  of
• 4:00
  everything.
• 4:02
  And
• 4:02
  you
• 4:03
  talk
• 4:03
  about
• 4:03
  the
• 4:04
  experience
• 4:04
  of
• 4:05
  awareness
• 4:05
  as
• 4:05
  having
• 4:07
  this
• 4:07
  sense
• 4:07
  of
• 4:07
  an
• 4:08
  incredible
• 4:09
  freedom
• 4:09
  or
• 4:10
  a.
• 4:12
  You
• 4:12
  talk
• 4:12
  about,
• 4:14
  and
• 4:14
  I
• 4:14
  quote
• 4:15
  you,
• 4:15
  stupendous
• 4:16
  clarity
• 4:17
  and
• 4:17
  inconceivable
• 4:18
  transparency.
• 4:20
  A
• 4:20
  vast
• 4:21
  expanse,
• 4:21
  transparent,
• 4:23
  lucid
• 4:24
  and
• 4:25
  bright.
• 4:27
  Like
• 4:27
  that.
• 4:28
  I
• 4:28
  like
• 4:29
  it.
• 4:29
  Yes,
• 4:30
  I
• 4:31
  love
• 4:31
  it.
• 4:32
  I
• 4:32
  imagine
• 4:33
  you
• 4:33
  can
• 4:33
  have
• 4:34
  some
• 4:34
  experiences
• 4:35
  then.
• 4:35
  A
• 4:36
  little.
• 4:36
  Yeah,
• 4:36
  and
• 4:37
  that's
• 4:37
  right.
• 4:38
  It's
• 4:38
  nice.
• 4:39
  You
• 4:39
  have
• 4:39
  some
• 4:40
  experience
• 4:41
  meditation.
• 4:42
  When
• 4:42
  that
• 4:42
  happens,
• 4:43
  it's
• 4:43
  total
• 4:44
  freedom.
• 4:45
  Of
• 4:45
  course.
• 4:46
  You
• 4:46
  see,
• 4:46
  there's
• 4:46
  a
• 4:47
  freedom
• 4:48
  in
• 4:48
  pure
• 4:49
  presence
• 4:49
  and
• 4:50
  there's
• 4:50
  a
• 4:50
  freedom
• 4:50
  in
• 4:51
  pure
• 4:51
  awareness.
• 4:53
  However,
• 4:53
  the
• 4:53
  freedom
• 4:55
  increases.
• 4:56
  Like
• 4:56
  it
• 4:56
  gets
• 4:57
  another
• 4:58
  degree
• 4:58
  of
• 4:58
  freedom
• 4:59
  and
• 5:00
  pure
• 5:00
  awareness
• 5:01
  than
• 5:01
  it
• 5:01
  is.
• 5:01
  Because
• 5:02
  it's
• 5:02
  free
• 5:02
  concept.
• 5:04
  And
• 5:04
  it's
• 5:04
  not.
• 5:04
  I
• 5:04
  mean,
• 5:05
  pure
• 5:05
  presence
• 5:06
  is
• 5:06
  freedom
• 5:06
  too.
• 5:08
  It's
• 5:08
  free,
• 5:09
  open,
• 5:09
  transparent,
• 5:11
  fresh,
• 5:12
  new,
• 5:14
  you
• 5:14
  know,
• 5:14
  it's
• 5:14
  completely
• 5:15
  now
• 5:16
  has
• 5:16
  a
• 5:16
  sense
• 5:16
  of
• 5:17
  now
• 5:17
  ness
• 5:17
  in
• 5:17
  it.
• 5:18
  Pure
• 5:19
  awareness.
• 5:19
  There
• 5:19
  is
• 5:20
  no
• 5:20
  such
• 5:20
  thing
• 5:21
  as
• 5:21
  nowness,
• 5:22
  you
• 5:23
  see.
• 5:24
  But
• 5:25
  there
• 5:25
  is.
• 5:25
  But
• 5:26
  you
• 5:26
  see,
• 5:27
  the
• 5:27
  transparency
• 5:28
  and
• 5:29
  the
• 5:29
  freshness
• 5:30
  and
• 5:32
  translucence
• 5:33
  and
• 5:34
  all
• 5:34
  of
• 5:34
  that.
• 5:36
  It's
• 5:36
  a
• 5:36
  pure
• 5:37
  awareness.
• 5:38
  But
• 5:38
  they
• 5:38
  need
• 5:38
  to
• 5:38
  be
• 5:39
  knowing
• 5:39
  to
• 5:39
  even
• 5:39
  talk
• 5:40
  about
• 5:40
  it.
• 5:41
  And
• 5:42
  the
• 5:42
  experience
• 5:42
  itself,
• 5:43
  it
• 5:43
  is
• 5:43
  translucent,
• 5:44
  but.
• 5:44
  But
• 5:44
  you
• 5:44
  won't
• 5:45
  remember
• 5:45
  it
• 5:45
  to
• 5:45
  say
• 5:46
  it.
• 5:48
  To
• 5:48
  say.
• 5:49
  But
• 5:49
  you
• 5:49
  can
• 5:49
  experience
• 5:50
  it
• 5:50
  and
• 5:51
  say
• 5:51
  it
• 5:51
  at
• 5:51
  the
• 5:51
  same
• 5:52
  time.
• 5:52
  That
• 5:53
  means
• 5:53
  presence
• 5:54
  is
• 5:54
  somewhat
• 5:54
  available.
• 5:57
  So
• 5:57
  an
• 5:57
  experiencer
• 5:58
  has
• 5:59
  to
• 5:59
  be
• 5:59
  there
• 6:00
  in
• 6:00
  some
• 6:01
  sense.
• 6:03
  Yes,
• 6:03
  the
• 6:04
  experience
• 6:04
  has
• 6:04
  to
• 6:04
  be
• 6:04
  there.
• 6:05
  But
• 6:06
  I'm
• 6:06
  not
• 6:06
  talking
• 6:06
  about
• 6:06
  the
• 6:07
  experiencer.
• 6:07
  I'm
• 6:08
  talking
• 6:08
  the
• 6:08
  mention
• 6:09
  of
• 6:09
  knowing
• 6:11
  has
• 6:12
  to
• 6:12
  be
• 6:12
  there.
• 6:13
  Now,
• 6:13
  something
• 6:14
  you
• 6:14
  alluded
• 6:15
  to,
• 6:15
  John
• 6:16
  several
• 6:16
  times,
• 6:17
  which
• 6:17
  is
• 6:17
  the
• 6:17
  needs
• 6:17
  of
• 6:17
  the
• 6:18
  individual
• 6:19
  soul.
• 6:20
  Because
• 6:20
  you
• 6:21
  cannot
• 6:21
  have
• 6:21
  experience
• 6:22
  of
• 6:22
  any
• 6:22
  kind.
• 6:23
  Knowing
• 6:23
  or
• 6:23
  not
• 6:24
  knowing,
• 6:24
  being
• 6:25
  or
• 6:26
  without
• 6:27
  a
• 6:27
  being.
• 6:29
  You
• 6:30
  know,
• 6:30
  we
• 6:30
  don't
• 6:31
  know
• 6:31
  if
• 6:31
  God
• 6:32
  knows
• 6:32
  itself
• 6:33
  without
• 6:34
  any
• 6:35
  organization.
• 6:36
  You
• 6:37
  know,
• 6:38
  like
• 6:38
  when
• 6:38
  people
• 6:38
  say,
• 6:39
  how
• 6:39
  does
• 6:39
  God
• 6:39
  know
• 6:41
  itself?
• 6:42
  Nobody
• 6:42
  knows
• 6:45
  because
• 6:46
  nobody
• 6:46
  there.
• 6:48
  So
• 6:49
  for
• 6:49
  us
• 6:50
  to
• 6:50
  know
• 6:50
  being,
• 6:51
  there
• 6:51
  has
• 6:51
  to
• 6:51
  be
• 6:51
  an
• 6:52
  individual
• 6:52
  being.
• 6:53
  Because
• 6:54
  always
• 6:54
  the
• 6:55
  knowing
• 6:55
  of
• 6:55
  being
• 6:55
  is
• 6:56
  by
• 6:56
  an
• 6:56
  individual
• 6:57
  being
• 6:58
  or
• 6:58
  through
• 6:58
  an
• 6:58
  individual
• 6:59
  being.
• 7:00
  So
• 7:00
  I
• 7:01
  don't
• 7:01
  agree
• 7:01
  with
• 7:02
  Advaita
• 7:02
  Vedanta
• 7:04
  that
• 7:04
  the
• 7:05
  world
• 7:05
  is
• 7:05
  superimposed
• 7:06
  in
• 7:06
  it.
• 7:07
  It's
• 7:07
  not
• 7:07
  superimposed
• 7:08
  in
• 7:08
  it.
• 7:09
  It
• 7:09
  is
• 7:09
  manifested
• 7:10
  from
• 7:10
  it.
• 7:12
  Pure
• 7:12
  being,
• 7:12
  a
• 7:13
  pure
• 7:13
  awareness
• 7:14
  manifests.
• 7:15
  It
• 7:16
  forms
• 7:16
  itself
• 7:17
  into
• 7:17
  the
• 7:17
  form.
• 7:18
  Take
• 7:18
  forms,
• 7:20
  you
• 7:20
  see,
• 7:20
  and
• 7:21
  these
• 7:21
  forms.
• 7:21
  That's
• 7:22
  more
• 7:22
  closer
• 7:23
  to
• 7:24
  take
• 7:24
  the
• 7:24
  form.
• 7:25
  It's
• 7:25
  called
• 7:25
  display
• 7:26
  or
• 7:28
  displays
• 7:29
  the
• 7:29
  world.
• 7:31
  Some
• 7:31
  distinctions
• 7:31
  here,
• 7:31
  Hameed.
• 7:32
  So
• 7:33
  you're
• 7:34
  saying
• 7:34
  that
• 7:35
  your
• 7:35
  experience
• 7:36
  echoes,
• 7:37
  for
• 7:37
  example,
• 7:38
  think
• 7:39
  of
• 7:39
  Kashmir
• 7:39
  Shaivism
• 7:41
  with
• 7:41
  its
• 7:41
  Shiva
• 7:42
  manifesting
• 7:44
  or
• 7:44
  Shakti
• 7:45
  actually
• 7:45
  manifesting.
• 7:46
  And
• 7:47
  you're
• 7:47
  disagreeing.
• 7:48
  You
• 7:48
  said
• 7:48
  with
• 7:49
  Advaita
• 7:50
  Vedanta
• 7:51
  that
• 7:52
  the
• 7:52
  world
• 7:52
  is
• 7:52
  a
• 7:52
  superimposition.
• 7:54
  But
• 7:54
  my
• 7:55
  understanding
• 7:55
  is
• 7:56
  that
• 7:56
  is
• 7:57
  that
• 7:57
  it's
• 7:57
  more
• 7:57
  that
• 7:59
  the
• 7:59
  experience
• 8:00
  of
• 8:00
  the
• 8:00
  world
• 8:00
  as
• 8:01
  separate
• 8:01
  from
• 8:02
  Brahman,
• 8:02
  as
• 8:03
  distinct,
• 8:03
  as
• 8:03
  reified,
• 8:06
  is
• 8:07
  the
• 8:07
  result
• 8:07
  of
• 8:08
  a
• 8:08
  superimposition.
• 8:09
  Yes,
• 8:10
  that's
• 8:10
  true.
• 8:11
  That's
• 8:11
  true.
• 8:12
  But
• 8:12
  they
• 8:13
  do
• 8:13
  say,
• 8:13
  however,
• 8:14
  that
• 8:15
  the
• 8:15
  individual
• 8:16
  mind
• 8:16
  is
• 8:20
  the
• 8:20
  exposure
• 8:21
  they
• 8:21
  call
• 8:21
  a
• 8:22
  convenient
• 8:22
  fiction.
• 8:25
  And
• 8:25
  I'm
• 8:25
  saying
• 8:25
  it's
• 8:25
  not
• 8:26
  a
• 8:26
  fiction,
• 8:26
  it's
• 8:27
  true.
• 8:28
  Being
• 8:29
  manifest,
• 8:30
  individual
• 8:30
  being
• 8:33
  not
• 8:33
  a
• 8:33
  fiction.
• 8:34
  A
• 8:35
  being
• 8:35
  doesn't
• 8:35
  need
• 8:36
  fiction
• 8:36
  to
• 8:36
  know
• 8:36
  itself.
• 8:38
  It
• 8:38
  knows
• 8:39
  itself
• 8:39
  through
• 8:39
  truth,
• 8:40
  through
• 8:40
  reality.
• 8:41
  So
• 8:42
  that
• 8:42
  is
• 8:42
  my
• 8:42
  main
• 8:43
  disagreement
• 8:44
  with
• 8:45
  Advera
• 8:45
  Vedanta.
• 8:46
  I
• 8:46
  love
• 8:46
  Advaita
• 8:46
  Vedanta.
• 8:47
  But
• 8:47
  when
• 8:47
  they
• 8:48
  say
• 8:48
  that
• 8:48
  part
• 8:48
  about
• 8:49
  illusion.
• 8:51
  The
• 8:52
  world
• 8:52
  is
• 8:52
  an
• 8:52
  illusion.
• 8:53
  It's
• 8:54
  an
• 8:54
  illusion
• 8:54
  when
• 8:55
  you
• 8:55
  see
• 8:55
  it
• 8:55
  as
• 8:55
  separate.
• 8:57
  But
• 8:57
  the
• 8:57
  world
• 8:57
  can
• 8:57
  appease
• 8:58
  without
• 8:58
  being
• 8:58
  separate.
• 9:00
  And
• 9:00
  then
• 9:00
  it's
• 9:01
  not
• 9:01
  an
• 9:01
  illusion.
• 9:02
  It
• 9:02
  is
• 9:02
  the
• 9:03
  expression
• 9:04
  of
• 9:05
  reality,
• 9:05
  the
• 9:05
  expression
• 9:06
  of
• 9:06
  truth.
• 9:07
  It's
• 9:07
  also
• 9:07
  God.
• 9:09
  It
• 9:09
  is
• 9:09
  the
• 9:09
  face
• 9:10
  of
• 9:10
  God.
• 9:12
  So
• 9:12
  you're
• 9:13
  suggesting
• 9:13
  something
• 9:14
  sounds
• 9:14
  closer
• 9:14
  to
• 9:14
  Aurobindo,
• 9:15
  who.
• 9:17
  Who
• 9:17
  also
• 9:18
  was
• 9:18
  concerned
• 9:18
  about
• 9:19
  the
• 9:19
  implication
• 9:20
  that
• 9:20
  this
• 9:20
  is
• 9:21
  all
• 9:21
  just
• 9:21
  illusion
• 9:22
  and
• 9:22
  rather
• 9:23
  wanted
• 9:23
  to
• 9:23
  recognize
• 9:24
  its
• 9:24
  fullness,
• 9:25
  its.
• 9:25
  Its
• 9:26
  beauty,
• 9:26
  Manifestation,
• 9:27
  presence,
• 9:28
  et
• 9:28
  cetera.
• 9:29
  Yeah,
• 9:29
  and
• 9:29
  that's
• 9:30
  why
• 9:30
  he
• 9:30
  had
• 9:30
  many
• 9:31
  different
• 9:31
  levels
• 9:32
  of
• 9:32
  consciousness
• 9:33
  to.
• 9:34
  So
• 9:35
  and
• 9:35
  Kashmiri
• 9:36
  Shaivism
• 9:36
  does
• 9:36
  that
• 9:36
  too
• 9:37
  go
• 9:38
  different
• 9:38
  levels
• 9:39
  and
• 9:39
  for
• 9:40
  different
• 9:40
  levels
• 9:40
  of
• 9:40
  manifestation,
• 9:41
  where
• 9:41
  the
• 9:42
  manifestation
• 9:42
  can
• 9:42
  get
• 9:43
  smaller
• 9:43
  and
• 9:44
  more
• 9:44
  discriminated
• 9:45
  and
• 9:45
  all
• 9:45
  that.
• 9:46
  But
• 9:48
  to
• 9:48
  bring
• 9:48
  in
• 9:49
  something
• 9:50
  that
• 9:51
  John
• 9:51
  said,
• 9:52
  we
• 9:52
  talk
• 9:52
  about
• 9:52
  the
• 9:52
  logos,
• 9:53
  what
• 9:54
  Kashmir
• 9:54
  Shaivism
• 9:55
  called
• 9:55
  Shakti,
• 9:57
  I
• 9:57
  call
• 9:57
  Logos
• 9:59
  connected
• 10:00
  to
• 10:00
  the
• 10:00
  Greek
• 10:00
  logos.
• 10:01
  Later,
• 10:01
  another
• 10:02
  meeting
• 10:03
  which
• 10:03
  means
• 10:03
  what
• 10:04
  makes
• 10:04
  things
• 10:05
  manifest?
• 10:07
  The
• 10:07
  property
• 10:08
  in
• 10:09
  true
• 10:09
  nature
• 10:10
  that
• 10:10
  manifests
• 10:11
  things.
• 10:12
  Because
• 10:12
  if
• 10:13
  you
• 10:13
  just
• 10:13
  took
• 10:13
  pure
• 10:14
  awareness,
• 10:15
  you
• 10:15
  know,
• 10:15
  it's
• 10:16
  just
• 10:16
  there.
• 10:17
  How
• 10:18
  does
• 10:18
  manifestation
• 10:19
  happen?
• 10:20
  You
• 10:21
  see,
• 10:22
  there's
• 10:23
  a
• 10:23
  talk
• 10:23
  about
• 10:23
  display.
• 10:25
  And
• 10:26
  Mahamuda
• 10:27
  talks
• 10:27
  about
• 10:28
  manifestation
• 10:29
  manifest.
• 10:31
  But
• 10:31
  there's
• 10:32
  a
• 10:32
  process
• 10:32
  there.
• 10:33
  There's
• 10:33
  a
• 10:33
  force
• 10:34
  there
• 10:34
  that
• 10:34
  does
• 10:35
  that.
• 10:35
  And
• 10:36
  that
• 10:36
  usually
• 10:36
  I
• 10:37
  call
• 10:37
  the
• 10:37
  logos.
• 10:37
  And
• 10:38
  we
• 10:38
  want
• 10:38
  to
• 10:38
  spend
• 10:39
  that
• 10:39
  a
• 10:40
  meeting
• 10:40
  by
• 10:41
  about
• 10:41
  it.
• 10:42
  You
• 10:42
  know,
• 10:42
  it's
• 10:42
  a
• 10:43
  very
• 10:43
  profound
• 10:45
  dimension
• 10:46
  of
• 10:46
  our
• 10:46
  true
• 10:46
  nature.
• 10:47
  Amit,
• 10:48
  I
• 10:48
  want
• 10:48
  to
• 10:48
  quote
• 10:48
  you
• 10:48
  something
• 10:49
  because
• 10:49
  I
• 10:49
  love
• 10:49
  it
• 10:50
  so
• 10:50
  much.
• 10:50
  It
• 10:50
  summarizes
• 10:51
  so
• 10:51
  much.
• 10:52
  You
• 10:52
  say
• 10:53
  when
• 10:54
  you
• 10:54
  introducing
• 10:55
  pure
• 10:55
  awareness,
• 10:56
  as
• 10:56
  you
• 10:56
  point
• 10:56
  out
• 10:57
  this
• 10:59
  ultra
• 10:59
  simple
• 11:00
  pure
• 11:01
  awareness,
• 11:01
  you
• 11:02
  say
• 11:02
  that
• 11:02
  as
• 11:03
  the
• 11:03
  ground
• 11:04
  pure
• 11:05
  awareness
• 11:05
  pervades,
• 11:07
  constitutes
• 11:07
  and
• 11:08
  transcends
• 11:09
  all
• 11:09
  Forms.
• 11:11
  There's
• 11:12
  a
• 11:12
  lot
• 11:12
  in
• 11:12
  that.
• 11:15
  Yeah.
• 11:16
  Well,
• 11:16
  I
• 11:16
  mean,
• 11:18
  all
• 11:19
  the
• 11:19
  boundless
• 11:19
  dimension,
• 11:21
  including
• 11:21
  divine
• 11:22
  love
• 11:22
  and
• 11:22
  pure
• 11:23
  presence
• 11:23
  and
• 11:23
  pure
• 11:24
  awareness
• 11:24
  and
• 11:25
  other.
• 11:25
  They
• 11:26
  all
• 11:26
  transcend
• 11:27
  all
• 11:27
  form
• 11:27
  because
• 11:28
  they're
• 11:28
  formless.
• 11:30
  They're
• 11:30
  dimension
• 11:31
  of
• 11:31
  formlessness.
• 11:32
  But
• 11:32
  I
• 11:32
  talk
• 11:33
  forms
• 11:33
  as
• 11:34
  five
• 11:35
  dimensions,
• 11:36
  which,
• 11:37
  you
• 11:37
  know,
• 11:38
  I
• 11:38
  don't
• 11:38
  know.
• 11:38
  It's
• 11:38
  a
• 11:38
  good
• 11:39
  or
• 11:39
  bad.
• 11:39
  Many
• 11:39
  teachings
• 11:40
  don't
• 11:40
  differentiate
• 11:41
  them
• 11:41
  that
• 11:41
  way.
• 11:42
  They
• 11:42
  just
• 11:42
  talk
• 11:42
  about
• 11:42
  the
• 11:43
  ground
• 11:43
  and
• 11:44
  the
• 11:44
  forms.
• 11:46
  One
• 11:46
  thing
• 11:47
  I
• 11:47
  want
• 11:47
  to
• 11:47
  sort
• 11:47
  of
• 11:48
  connect
• 11:48
  the
• 11:48
  two
• 11:49
  dimensions,
• 11:49
  the
• 11:50
  pure
• 11:50
  being
• 11:51
  and
• 11:51
  pure
• 11:52
  awareness,
• 11:54
  which
• 11:54
  is.
• 11:55
  You
• 11:55
  know,
• 11:56
  how
• 11:56
  many
• 11:56
  of
• 11:57
  the
• 11:57
  spiritual
• 11:58
  teachers
• 11:59
  talk
• 11:59
  about
• 11:59
  how
• 12:00
  mind
• 12:00
  is
• 12:00
  the
• 12:00
  problem.
• 12:02
  Mind
• 12:02
  is
• 12:02
  in
• 12:02
  the
• 12:03
  way.
• 12:03
  We
• 12:03
  need
• 12:03
  to
• 12:03
  be
• 12:04
  free
• 12:04
  of
• 12:04
  mind.
• 12:06
  Of
• 12:06
  course,
• 12:06
  that
• 12:06
  was
• 12:07
  made
• 12:07
  very
• 12:08
  explicit
• 12:08
  and
• 12:09
  distinct
• 12:09
  by
• 12:10
  Krishnamurti.
• 12:12
  If
• 12:12
  you
• 12:12
  remember,
• 12:12
  he
• 12:13
  was
• 12:13
  against
• 12:14
  mind.
• 12:17
  Mind
• 12:17
  is
• 12:17
  the
• 12:18
  enemy.
• 12:19
  And
• 12:20
  he
• 12:20
  is
• 12:20
  right.
• 12:21
  Except
• 12:21
  not
• 12:21
  completely,
• 12:23
  because.
• 12:23
  Because
• 12:23
  we're
• 12:24
  seeing
• 12:24
  he
• 12:24
  two
• 12:24
  levels
• 12:25
  of
• 12:25
  mind.
• 12:26
  When
• 12:27
  we
• 12:27
  talk
• 12:27
  about
• 12:28
  pure
• 12:29
  presence,
• 12:29
  that
• 12:30
  is
• 12:30
  knowing,
• 12:31
  I
• 12:31
  mean,
• 12:32
  he
• 12:32
  talk
• 12:32
  about
• 12:33
  stillness.
• 12:34
  Well,
• 12:34
  he
• 12:34
  knows
• 12:35
  stillness.
• 12:37
  What's
• 12:37
  that?
• 12:38
  It's
• 12:39
  mind.
• 12:41
  You
• 12:41
  know,
• 12:42
  it's
• 12:42
  knowing.
• 12:43
  If
• 12:43
  it's
• 12:43
  knowing,
• 12:44
  it's
• 12:44
  mind.
• 12:45
  You
• 12:45
  know,
• 12:45
  mind
• 12:46
  basically
• 12:47
  means
• 12:47
  knowing.
• 12:48
  I
• 12:48
  mean,
• 12:49
  as
• 12:49
  long
• 12:49
  as
• 12:49
  there's
• 12:50
  no.
• 12:50
  There
• 12:50
  is
• 12:50
  mind.
• 12:51
  It's
• 12:51
  just
• 12:52
  not
• 12:52
  the
• 12:52
  ordinary
• 12:53
  mind
• 12:54
  as
• 12:54
  the
• 12:54
  basic
• 12:55
  mind,
• 12:56
  which
• 12:56
  is
• 12:56
  what
• 12:57
  the
• 12:58
  pure
• 12:59
  presence
• 12:59
  shows.
• 13:00
  That
• 13:00
  there
• 13:00
  is
• 13:00
  such
• 13:00
  a
• 13:01
  thing
• 13:01
  as
• 13:03
  mind
• 13:03
  that
• 13:05
  is
• 13:05
  not
• 13:05
  an
• 13:05
  obstacle,
• 13:07
  in
• 13:07
  fact,
• 13:07
  is
• 13:08
  needed
• 13:08
  for
• 13:09
  realization.
• 13:09
  Without
• 13:10
  it,
• 13:10
  there's
• 13:11
  no
• 13:11
  realization.
• 13:12
  I
• 13:12
  mean,
• 13:13
  what
• 13:13
  I
• 13:13
  remember.
• 13:14
  Gurdjieff
• 13:15
  brought
• 13:15
  that
• 13:16
  point
• 13:17
  distinctly
• 13:18
  when
• 13:18
  he
• 13:19
  talked
• 13:19
  about
• 13:19
  stupid
• 13:20
  saints.
• 13:21
  Do
• 13:22
  you
• 13:22
  remember
• 13:22
  that?
• 13:22
  Stupid
• 13:23
  saint,
• 13:23
  meaning
• 13:24
  that
• 13:24
  somebody
• 13:25
  who
• 13:25
  is
• 13:25
  but
• 13:25
  doesn't
• 13:26
  know,
• 13:26
  he
• 13:26
  is
• 13:28
  like
• 13:30
  he's
• 13:30
  realized,
• 13:31
  but
• 13:31
  he
• 13:31
  doesn't
• 13:31
  know
• 13:32
  it.
• 13:32
  There
• 13:33
  is
• 13:33
  no
• 13:33
  knowing.
• 13:34
  So
• 13:35
  he
• 13:35
  calls
• 13:35
  a
• 13:35
  stupid
• 13:36
  saint.
• 13:38
  He
• 13:38
  can't
• 13:38
  teach,
• 13:39
  can't
• 13:39
  do
• 13:39
  anything.
• 13:39
  He
• 13:39
  just
• 13:41
  pure
• 13:41
  and
• 13:42
  simple
• 13:42
  and
• 13:44
  has
• 13:45
  all
• 13:45
  the
• 13:45
  qualities
• 13:45
  of
• 13:46
  realization,
• 13:47
  but
• 13:47
  not
• 13:48
  useful
• 13:48
  for
• 13:48
  anybody,
• 13:50
  but
• 13:51
  they
• 13:51
  live
• 13:51
  in
• 13:52
  peace.
• 13:52
  He
• 13:52
  called
• 13:53
  them
• 13:53
  stupid
• 13:53
  saints.
• 13:55
  I
• 13:55
  don't
• 13:55
  know
• 13:56
  if
• 13:56
  there
• 13:56
  are
• 13:57
  many
• 13:57
  people
• 13:58
  like
• 13:58
  that,
• 13:58
  but
• 13:58
  I
• 13:59
  think
• 14:00
  some
• 14:00
  of
• 14:00
  us,
• 14:01
  sometime
• 14:01
  once
• 14:01
  in
• 14:01
  a
• 14:02
  while,
• 14:02
  we
• 14:02
  are
• 14:02
  stupid.
• 14:02
  Satan
• 14:03
  says
• 14:03
  we
• 14:03
  are
• 14:03
  a
• 14:03
  being
• 14:04
  and
• 14:04
  not
• 14:04
  knowing
• 14:04
  it
• 14:05
  cause
• 14:05
  this.
• 14:06
  That
• 14:06
  would
• 14:06
  be
• 14:06
  good.
• 14:07
  But
• 14:08
  the
• 14:08
  thing
• 14:09
  I'm
• 14:09
  pointing
• 14:09
  to
• 14:09
  here,
• 14:10
  mind
• 14:11
  is
• 14:11
  not
• 14:11
  an
• 14:11
  enemy.
• 14:14
  Knowing
• 14:14
  is
• 14:15
  not
• 14:15
  an
• 14:15
  enemy.
• 14:16
  It's
• 14:16
  beautiful.
• 14:17
  The
• 14:17
  obstacle
• 14:18
  is
• 14:19
  the
• 14:19
  reified,
• 14:20
  conceptual,
• 14:22
  representational
• 14:23
  mind.
• 14:24
  If
• 14:24
  we
• 14:24
  take
• 14:25
  that
• 14:25
  to
• 14:25
  be
• 14:26
  reality,
• 14:29
  the
• 14:29
  knowledge
• 14:29
  of
• 14:29
  that
• 14:30
  mind
• 14:30
  to
• 14:30
  be
• 14:30
  reality,
• 14:31
  that's
• 14:32
  the
• 14:32
  obstacle.
• 14:34
  So
• 14:34
  the
• 14:34
  trap
• 14:34
  is
• 14:35
  more
• 14:36
  an
• 14:36
  unskillful
• 14:37
  relationship
• 14:38
  to
• 14:38
  mind
• 14:39
  or
• 14:40
  attitude
• 14:40
  or
• 14:41
  understanding
• 14:41
  of
• 14:41
  mind
• 14:42
  rather
• 14:42
  than
• 14:42
  mind
• 14:43
  itself.
• 14:44
  Yeah.
• 14:45
  So
• 14:45
  meaning
• 14:46
  it's
• 14:46
  not
• 14:47
  knowing
• 14:47
  that
• 14:47
  is
• 14:48
  the
• 14:48
  issue.
• 14:49
  It
• 14:49
  is
• 14:50
  the
• 14:50
  Reified
• 14:51
  knowing,
• 14:52
  it's
• 14:52
  not
• 14:52
  even,
• 14:53
  you
• 14:53
  know,
• 14:54
  there
• 14:55
  are
• 14:55
  different
• 14:55
  levels
• 14:56
  of
• 14:56
  how
• 14:59
  ignorance
• 14:59
  develops.
• 15:01
  First
• 15:01
  there's
• 15:01
  pure
• 15:01
  awareness.
• 15:02
  There's
• 15:03
  no
• 15:03
  concept,
• 15:04
  no
• 15:04
  knowing.
• 15:05
  Then
• 15:06
  pure
• 15:06
  awareness
• 15:07
  manifests
• 15:08
  the
• 15:08
  concept
• 15:09
  of
• 15:09
  being
• 15:10
  and
• 15:11
  knowing
• 15:12
  being,
• 15:13
  that
• 15:13
  is
• 15:13
  the
• 15:13
  first
• 15:14
  concept.
• 15:14
  Then
• 15:15
  from
• 15:15
  that
• 15:15
  emerges
• 15:16
  other
• 15:16
  concepts.
• 15:17
  The
• 15:17
  concept
• 15:17
  of
• 15:18
  love,
• 15:18
  concept
• 15:18
  of
• 15:19
  peace,
• 15:19
  concept
• 15:19
  of
• 15:20
  space,
• 15:21
  and
• 15:21
  all
• 15:21
  the
• 15:22
  way
• 15:22
  to
• 15:22
  concept
• 15:22
  of
• 15:23
  an
• 15:23
  apple
• 15:23
  house,
• 15:24
  all
• 15:24
  of
• 15:24
  that,
• 15:25
  all
• 15:25
  these
• 15:26
  are
• 15:27
  inherent,
• 15:28
  manifestation
• 15:29
  of
• 15:29
  reality.
• 15:31
  They're
• 15:31
  all
• 15:32
  have
• 15:32
  mind
• 15:33
  in
• 15:33
  the
• 15:33
  sense
• 15:33
  there
• 15:34
  is
• 15:34
  knowing.
• 15:36
  However,
• 15:36
  then
• 15:37
  those
• 15:37
  can
• 15:37
  be.
• 15:38
  Each
• 15:39
  one
• 15:39
  of
• 15:39
  those
• 15:40
  can
• 15:40
  be
• 15:40
  isolated
• 15:41
  in
• 15:42
  the
• 15:42
  mind,
• 15:43
  our
• 15:43
  individual
• 15:44
  mind,
• 15:45
  and
• 15:46
  remembered
• 15:47
  and
• 15:47
  made
• 15:47
  into
• 15:48
  a
• 15:48
  category.
• 15:49
  We
• 15:49
  call
• 15:50
  a
• 15:50
  mountain
• 15:50
  or
• 15:51
  an
• 15:51
  ocean
• 15:52
  as
• 15:52
  a
• 15:52
  category
• 15:54
  and
• 15:54
  that
• 15:55
  is
• 15:55
  reified,
• 15:56
  made
• 15:56
  separate
• 15:57
  from
• 15:57
  everything
• 15:58
  else.
• 15:58
  The
• 15:58
  ocean
• 15:59
  has
• 15:59
  nothing
• 15:59
  to
• 15:59
  do
• 16:00
  with
• 16:00
  the
• 16:00
  earth.
• 16:00
  With
• 16:01
  the
• 16:01
  mountain
• 16:01
  it
• 16:02
  is
• 16:02
  just
• 16:02
  an
• 16:02
  ocean
• 16:03
  and
• 16:03
  ocean.
• 16:03
  Water
• 16:04
  is
• 16:04
  water,
• 16:07
  you
• 16:07
  is
• 16:08
  you,
• 16:08
  I
• 16:08
  am
• 16:08
  me.
• 16:09
  We
• 16:10
  are
• 16:10
  two
• 16:10
  different
• 16:10
  things.
• 16:11
  That
• 16:12
  is
• 16:12
  a
• 16:12
  reification
• 16:13
  of
• 16:14
  the
• 16:14
  concept
• 16:14
  of
• 16:14
  you
• 16:14
  and
• 16:15
  me.
• 16:16
  And
• 16:16
  the
• 16:16
  reified
• 16:17
  concepts
• 16:19
  is
• 16:19
  the
• 16:19
  mind
• 16:20
  not
• 16:20
  as
• 16:20
  an
• 16:20
  obstacle.
• 16:22
  Can
• 16:22
  I
• 16:23
  say
• 16:23
  something
• 16:23
  here,
• 16:23
  Hameed?
• 16:24
  I
• 16:24
  think
• 16:24
  it's
• 16:24
  very
• 16:25
  liberating.
• 16:25
  What
• 16:26
  you
• 16:26
  just
• 16:26
  said
• 16:27
  is
• 16:27
  that
• 16:28
  in
• 16:28
  your
• 16:28
  teaching
• 16:29
  the
• 16:29
  mind
• 16:30
  is
• 16:30
  not
• 16:30
  the
• 16:30
  enemy
• 16:31
  and
• 16:32
  the
• 16:32
  individual
• 16:33
  is
• 16:33
  not
• 16:33
  the
• 16:33
  enemy.
• 16:34
  They're
• 16:34
  both
• 16:35
  accepted
• 16:36
  and
• 16:36
  they're
• 16:36
  part
• 16:37
  of
• 16:37
  divine
• 16:38
  reality,
• 16:39
  if
• 16:39
  I
• 16:39
  understand
• 16:39
  it.
• 16:40
  Exactly,
• 16:42
  exactly.
• 16:43
  So
• 16:43
  wait,
• 16:44
  that's
• 16:44
  something.
• 16:45
  I
• 16:45
  mean
• 16:45
  that
• 16:45
  is
• 16:45
  amazing,
• 16:46
  but
• 16:47
  we.
• 16:47
  Need
• 16:47
  things
• 16:48
  get
• 16:48
  settled
• 16:49
  though,
• 16:49
  you
• 16:49
  know,
• 16:50
  for
• 16:50
  people,
• 16:51
  they
• 16:51
  don't
• 16:51
  know
• 16:52
  there
• 16:52
  is
• 16:52
  such
• 16:52
  a
• 16:52
  thing
• 16:53
  as
• 16:53
  basic
• 16:54
  concept
• 16:54
  and
• 16:54
  ordinary
• 16:55
  concepts,
• 16:56
  and
• 16:56
  they
• 16:57
  don't
• 16:57
  know
• 16:57
  that
• 16:57
  ordinary
• 16:58
  concept
• 16:58
  can
• 16:59
  be
• 16:59
  reified
• 16:59
  or
• 16:59
  not.
• 17:00
  You
• 17:00
  can
• 17:00
  have
• 17:00
  an
• 17:01
  ordinary
• 17:01
  concept
• 17:01
  without
• 17:01
  reifying
• 17:02
  it.
• 17:03
  You
• 17:03
  see
• 17:04
  the
• 17:04
  moment
• 17:04
  you
• 17:04
  reify
• 17:05
  it,
• 17:05
  that
• 17:06
  another
• 17:06
  level
• 17:07
  and
• 17:09
  the
• 17:09
  mind
• 17:09
  as
• 17:09
  an
• 17:10
  obstacle
• 17:10
  is
• 17:10
  the
• 17:10
  reifying
• 17:12
  mind
• 17:12
  that
• 17:13
  uses
• 17:13
  concept.
• 17:14
  But
• 17:14
  you
• 17:14
  see,
• 17:15
  for
• 17:15
  reification
• 17:16
  to
• 17:16
  happen,
• 17:16
  there
• 17:17
  has
• 17:17
  to
• 17:17
  be
• 17:17
  concept.
• 17:19
  In
• 17:20
  pure
• 17:20
  awareness.
• 17:20
  There's
• 17:21
  no
• 17:21
  concept,
• 17:22
  so
• 17:22
  no
• 17:23
  possibility
• 17:23
  of
• 17:23
  reification.
• 17:24
  That's
• 17:25
  why
• 17:25
  it
• 17:25
  is
• 17:26
  feeling
• 17:26
  of
• 17:26
  greater
• 17:27
  freedom.
• 17:28
  Because
• 17:29
  pure
• 17:30
  being,
• 17:31
  although
• 17:31
  it
• 17:32
  is
• 17:32
  a
• 17:32
  freedom
• 17:33
  and
• 17:33
  it
• 17:34
  is
• 17:34
  truth
• 17:34
  and
• 17:35
  reality,
• 17:36
  it
• 17:36
  has
• 17:36
  the
• 17:37
  possibility
• 17:37
  of
• 17:38
  reification
• 17:39
  because
• 17:39
  there
• 17:39
  is
• 17:40
  knowing.
• 17:42
  It
• 17:42
  is
• 17:42
  not.
• 17:42
  The
• 17:43
  knowing
• 17:43
  itself
• 17:43
  is
• 17:44
  not
• 17:44
  the
• 17:45
  problem,
• 17:46
  but
• 17:48
  there's
• 17:48
  a
• 17:48
  nascent
• 17:49
  possibility
• 17:51
  of
• 17:51
  thing
• 17:52
  developing
• 17:52
  into
• 17:53
  reification
• 17:54
  and
• 17:55
  pure
• 17:55
  awareness.
• 17:55
  There
• 17:56
  is
• 17:56
  no
• 17:56
  concept,
• 17:57
  so
• 17:57
  there's
• 17:57
  nothing
• 17:58
  to
• 17:58
  reify,
• 18:00
  nothing
• 18:00
  to
• 18:00
  become
• 18:01
  ordinarily
• 18:02
  basic
• 18:02
  or
• 18:02
  ordinary
• 18:03
  and
• 18:03
  reify
• 18:04
  none.
• 18:05
  There's
• 18:05
  no
• 18:05
  knowing.
• 18:07
  And
• 18:07
  one
• 18:08
  of
• 18:08
  the
• 18:08
  implications
• 18:08
  of
• 18:09
  this
• 18:09
  that
• 18:09
  you
• 18:09
  point
• 18:09
  to
• 18:10
  amid
• 18:10
  is
• 18:10
  that
• 18:12
  awareness
• 18:13
  cannot
• 18:14
  be
• 18:14
  conceptualized.
• 18:16
  As
• 18:16
  is
• 18:17
  true
• 18:17
  to
• 18:17
  a
• 18:17
  large
• 18:17
  extent
• 18:18
  with
• 18:18
  all
• 18:19
  phenomena,
• 18:19
  we
• 18:19
  really
• 18:20
  can't
• 18:20
  do
• 18:20
  complete
• 18:21
  justices.
• 18:23
  For
• 18:23
  example,
• 18:23
  Nagarjuna
• 18:24
  said
• 18:26
  we
• 18:27
  cannot
• 18:28
  do.
• 18:29
  We
• 18:29
  cannot.
• 18:30
  Well,
• 18:30
  Let
• 18:30
  me
• 18:30
  quote
• 18:31
  someone
• 18:31
  actually
• 18:32
  Radhakrishnan,
• 18:33
  the
• 18:33
  Indian
• 18:34
  philosopher
• 18:34
  who
• 18:35
  was.
• 18:36
  Who
• 18:36
  was
• 18:36
  also
• 18:36
  became
• 18:37
  president
• 18:37
  of
• 18:37
  India.
• 18:38
  He
• 18:38
  had
• 18:38
  a
• 18:38
  beautiful
• 18:39
  quote.
• 18:39
  He
• 18:39
  said
• 18:39
  the
• 18:39
  real
• 18:40
  transcends,
• 18:41
  surrounds
• 18:42
  and
• 18:42
  overflows
• 18:43
  our
• 18:43
  miserable
• 18:44
  categories.
• 18:45
  Which
• 18:46
  puts
• 18:47
  it
• 18:47
  rather
• 18:47
  graphically.
• 18:48
  But
• 18:48
  you're
• 18:49
  pointing
• 18:49
  out
• 18:49
  specifically
• 18:50
  with
• 18:50
  regard
• 18:51
  to
• 18:51
  awareness,
• 18:52
  that
• 18:52
  because
• 18:52
  of
• 18:52
  its
• 18:53
  very
• 18:54
  nature,
• 18:55
  which
• 18:56
  one
• 18:56
  can't
• 18:56
  even
• 18:57
  say
• 18:57
  is
• 18:57
  real
• 18:58
  or
• 18:58
  not
• 18:58
  real,
• 18:59
  that
• 18:59
  it
• 18:59
  absolutely
• 19:00
  transcends
• 19:01
  categories.
• 19:03
  Well,
• 19:03
  I
• 19:04
  just
• 19:04
  say
• 19:04
  I
• 19:04
  understand
• 19:06
  awareness
• 19:06
  as
• 19:06
  Hameed
• 19:07
  is
• 19:07
  speaking
• 19:07
  about
• 19:07
  as
• 19:08
  being
• 19:08
  the
• 19:09
  space
• 19:09
  that
• 19:09
  everything
• 19:10
  arises
• 19:10
  in.
• 19:11
  And
• 19:12
  I
• 19:12
  just
• 19:12
  kind
• 19:12
  of.
• 19:12
  I
• 19:13
  don't
• 19:13
  know
• 19:13
  if
• 19:13
  I
• 19:13
  grok
• 19:13
  that
• 19:14
  or
• 19:14
  get
• 19:14
  it
• 19:14
  or
• 19:14
  it's
• 19:14
  a
• 19:14
  concept,
• 19:15
  but
• 19:15
  that's,
• 19:16
  that's
• 19:16
  the
• 19:16
  understanding.
• 19:17
  And
• 19:17
  it,
• 19:17
  it.
• 19:18
  I
• 19:18
  don't
• 19:18
  know,
• 19:18
  it
• 19:18
  does
• 19:19
  something.
• 19:19
  It
• 19:19
  liberates
• 19:19
  me
• 19:20
  in
• 19:20
  some
• 19:20
  way.
• 19:21
  Well,
• 19:22
  I
• 19:22
  mean,
• 19:22
  both
• 19:23
  are
• 19:23
  true.
• 19:24
  And
• 19:26
  the
• 19:26
  thing
• 19:27
  is
• 19:27
  about
• 19:29
  awareness.
• 19:29
  I
• 19:30
  think
• 19:30
  Nisargadatta
• 19:31
  Maharaj
• 19:32
  described
• 19:33
  it
• 19:33
  one
• 19:33
  time
• 19:34
  in
• 19:34
  a
• 19:34
  way
• 19:35
  more
• 19:35
  complete,
• 19:36
  more
• 19:37
  similar
• 19:37
  to
• 19:37
  the
• 19:38
  way
• 19:38
  I
• 19:38
  know
• 19:38
  it.
• 19:39
  When
• 19:40
  he
• 19:40
  says,
• 19:41
  as
• 19:41
  he
• 19:42
  talks
• 19:42
  about
• 19:43
  his
• 19:43
  realization,
• 19:44
  many
• 19:44
  things,
• 19:45
  but
• 19:45
  one
• 19:46
  of
• 19:46
  the
• 19:46
  time
• 19:46
  he
• 19:46
  says,
• 19:47
  as
• 19:47
  awareness,
• 19:49
  I'm
• 19:49
  not
• 19:50
  aware
• 19:50
  of
• 19:50
  myself
• 19:52
  as
• 19:52
  awareness,
• 19:53
  I
• 19:53
  don't
• 19:53
  know
• 19:53
  myself.
• 19:55
  Because
• 19:55
  awareness
• 19:55
  doesn't
• 19:56
  know
• 19:56
  itself.
• 19:57
  If
• 19:57
  it
• 19:57
  just
• 19:58
  looks
• 19:58
  at
• 19:58
  awareness
• 19:59
  and
• 19:59
  no
• 19:59
  forms,
• 20:01
  there's
• 20:01
  no
• 20:01
  knowing.
• 20:05
  And
• 20:05
  that
• 20:05
  is,
• 20:06
  I
• 20:06
  think,
• 20:06
  very
• 20:07
  astute
• 20:08
  and
• 20:08
  might
• 20:09
  escape
• 20:09
  most
• 20:10
  people
• 20:10
  when
• 20:10
  they
• 20:11
  read
• 20:11
  it.
• 20:11
  When
• 20:12
  he
• 20:12
  says
• 20:13
  as
• 20:13
  awareness,
• 20:14
  I'm
• 20:14
  not.
• 20:15
  I
• 20:16
  don't
• 20:16
  know
• 20:16
  myself.
• 20:17
  Another
• 20:17
  word
• 20:17
  myself,
• 20:19
  not
• 20:20
  really.
• 20:21
  More
• 20:24
  tells
• 20:24
  me
• 20:25
  he
• 20:25
  really
• 20:25
  knew
• 20:25
  pure
• 20:26
  awareness.
• 20:26
  Non
• 20:26
  conservative.
• 20:28
  No,
• 20:28
  he
• 20:29
  wasn't
• 20:29
  talking
• 20:29
  just
• 20:30
  about.
• 20:30
  He
• 20:31
  started
• 20:31
  with
• 20:31
  I
• 20:32
  am
• 20:32
  as
• 20:32
  you
• 20:32
  know.
• 20:33
  But
• 20:33
  he
• 20:33
  goes
• 20:34
  on,
• 20:34
  he
• 20:34
  said
• 20:34
  I
• 20:34
  am
• 20:35
  the
• 20:35
  beginning.
• 20:36
  And
• 20:36
  he
• 20:36
  goes
• 20:36
  on
• 20:37
  to
• 20:37
  just
• 20:37
  being
• 20:38
  called
• 20:39
  the
• 20:39
  rock
• 20:39
  of
• 20:39
  awareness,
• 20:40
  the
• 20:41
  awareness
• 20:41
  that
• 20:41
  is
• 20:41
  not
• 20:42
  aware
• 20:42
  of
• 20:42
  itself.
• 20:46
  So
• 20:46
  awareness
• 20:47
  is
• 20:47
  more
• 20:48
  fundamental
• 20:49
  in
• 20:49
  this
• 20:49
  sense
• 20:51
  than
• 20:51
  pure
• 20:52
  being
• 20:53
  because
• 20:54
  it's,
• 20:56
  I
• 20:56
  mean,
• 20:56
  they're
• 20:57
  all
• 20:58
  dimension
• 20:59
  of
• 20:59
  true
• 21:00
  reality.
• 21:01
  More
• 21:01
  fundamental
• 21:02
  in
• 21:02
  the
• 21:02
  sense
• 21:02
  is
• 21:03
  less
• 21:03
  conceptual.
• 21:05
  A
• 21:05
  being
• 21:05
  has
• 21:06
  knowledge,
• 21:06
  whereas
• 21:07
  awareness
• 21:07
  doesn't.
• 21:08
  Doesn't.
• 21:09
  So
• 21:09
  knowledge,
• 21:10
  although
• 21:10
  we
• 21:10
  think
• 21:10
  of
• 21:10
  it
• 21:11
  as
• 21:11
  a
• 21:11
  good
• 21:11
  thing,
• 21:13
  it's.
• 21:13
  You
• 21:14
  can
• 21:14
  be
• 21:14
  without
• 21:15
  it
• 21:15
  for
• 21:15
  a
• 21:15
  while
• 21:16
  at
• 21:16
  least.
• 21:17
  You
• 21:18
  just
• 21:18
  there
• 21:19
  and
• 21:19
  not
• 21:19
  know
• 21:20
  that
• 21:21
  you're
• 21:21
  there
• 21:21
  or
• 21:21
  anything.
• 21:22
  You're
• 21:22
  just
• 21:23
  aware
• 21:23
  of
• 21:23
  everything
• 21:24
  and
• 21:25
  you
• 21:25
  can
• 21:25
  function,
• 21:26
  do
• 21:26
  all
• 21:27
  kind
• 21:27
  of
• 21:27
  thing,
• 21:27
  but
• 21:28
  everything
• 21:28
  happens
• 21:29
  spontaneously,
• 21:29
  naturally,
• 21:30
  on
• 21:30
  its
• 21:30
  own,
• 21:32
  without
• 21:33
  thinking
• 21:33
  that's
• 21:34
  possible.
• 21:35
  And
• 21:37
  so
• 21:37
  there
• 21:37
  is.
• 21:39
  The
• 21:39
  freedom
• 21:40
  is
• 21:40
  more
• 21:40
  palpable
• 21:41
  there
• 21:43
  than
• 21:43
  it
• 21:44
  is
• 21:44
  in
• 21:44
  the
• 21:44
  other
• 21:44
  dimension,
• 21:45
  like
• 21:45
  love
• 21:46
  or
• 21:47
  presence.
• 21:48
  It's
• 21:48
  freedom.
• 21:49
  But
• 21:49
  here
• 21:50
  freedom
• 21:50
  is
• 21:50
  more
• 21:50
  palpable
• 21:51
  in
• 21:51
  the
• 21:51
  sense
• 21:52
  that
• 21:54
  the
• 21:54
  possibility
• 21:57
  of
• 21:57
  reification,
• 21:58
  the
• 21:59
  possibility
• 22:00
  of
• 22:01
  ignorance
• 22:01
  is
• 22:01
  not
• 22:02
  there.
• 22:04
  And
• 22:04
  I
• 22:04
  mean
• 22:05
  the
• 22:05
  knowledge
• 22:06
  for
• 22:06
  the
• 22:06
  possibility
• 22:07
  of.
• 22:07
  To
• 22:07
  be
• 22:08
  there.
• 22:11
  I
• 22:11
  mean,
• 22:11
  and
• 22:11
  you've
• 22:12
  mentioned
• 22:12
  freedom
• 22:13
  several
• 22:13
  times
• 22:13
  and
• 22:14
  just
• 22:15
  which
• 22:15
  seems
• 22:16
  so
• 22:16
  important.
• 22:17
  I
• 22:17
  just
• 22:17
  want
• 22:17
  to
• 22:18
  point
• 22:18
  to,
• 22:19
  or
• 22:19
  invite
• 22:19
  you
• 22:19
  to
• 22:19
  say
• 22:20
  more
• 22:20
  because
• 22:21
  you
• 22:22
  have
• 22:22
  a
• 22:22
  unique.
• 22:23
  You
• 22:23
  have
• 22:24
  so
• 22:24
  many
• 22:24
  unique
• 22:25
  contributions,
• 22:25
  but
• 22:26
  one
• 22:26
  of
• 22:26
  them
• 22:26
  is
• 22:26
  that
• 22:26
  you
• 22:27
  point
• 22:27
  to
• 22:27
  multiple
• 22:27
  kinds
• 22:28
  of
• 22:28
  freedom.
• 22:30
  Yeah.
• 22:34
  You
• 22:34
  notice
• 22:34
  that?
• 22:35
  Yeah,
• 22:36
  I
• 22:36
  did.
• 22:37
  I'm
• 22:37
  intrigued.
• 22:41
  You
• 22:41
  keep
• 22:42
  layering
• 22:42
  them.
• 22:43
  It's
• 22:43
  like,
• 22:43
  oh,
• 22:43
  there's
• 22:44
  more.
• 22:44
  There's
• 22:44
  more.
• 22:47
  Well,
• 22:47
  when
• 22:47
  you
• 22:48
  experience.
• 22:48
  When
• 22:49
  I
• 22:49
  experience
• 22:50
  myself
• 22:51
  as
• 22:53
  one
• 22:53
  of
• 22:53
  the
• 22:53
  aspects
• 22:54
  I
• 22:55
  am
• 22:55
  the
• 22:55
  presence
• 22:56
  of
• 22:56
  love
• 22:56
  or
• 22:57
  presence
• 22:57
  of
• 22:57
  clarity
• 22:58
  or
• 22:59
  the
• 22:59
  present
• 22:59
  peace
• 22:59
  is
• 23:00
  freedom.
• 23:00
  It's
• 23:01
  free.
• 23:01
  Presence
• 23:02
  is
• 23:02
  free.
• 23:03
  It
• 23:03
  is
• 23:03
  free
• 23:04
  of
• 23:04
  anything,
• 23:05
  any
• 23:07
  limitation,
• 23:07
  any
• 23:08
  suffering
• 23:08
  and
• 23:08
  all
• 23:09
  of
• 23:09
  that.
• 23:10
  So
• 23:10
  that's
• 23:10
  freedom.
• 23:11
  To
• 23:12
  be
• 23:12
  pure.
• 23:13
  Divine
• 23:13
  love
• 23:13
  is
• 23:14
  freedom.
• 23:15
  Freedom,
• 23:16
  it
• 23:16
  is
• 23:16
  itself
• 23:18
  not
• 23:18
  contaminated
• 23:19
  and
• 23:20
  not
• 23:20
  constrained
• 23:21
  by
• 23:21
  anything.
• 23:22
  The
• 23:22
  same
• 23:22
  thing
• 23:22
  with
• 23:22
  pure
• 23:23
  being.
• 23:24
  And
• 23:24
  it
• 23:25
  keeps
• 23:25
  getting
• 23:26
  subtler
• 23:28
  and
• 23:30
  the
• 23:30
  possibility
• 23:30
  of
• 23:31
  being
• 23:31
  ensnared
• 23:32
  less
• 23:32
  possible,
• 23:34
  you
• 23:34
  see.
• 23:35
  So
• 23:36
  that
• 23:36
  is
• 23:36
  in
• 23:36
  the
• 23:36
  bodily
• 23:37
  dimension.
• 23:37
  But
• 23:38
  I
• 23:38
  have
• 23:38
  other
• 23:38
  dimension
• 23:39
  where
• 23:39
  there's
• 23:40
  freedom
• 23:40
  comes
• 23:41
  in
• 23:41
  other
• 23:41
  ways.
• 23:42
  But
• 23:43
  that
• 23:43
  takes
• 23:44
  us
• 23:45
  even
• 23:45
  outside
• 23:45
  of
• 23:46
  this
• 23:46
  book,
• 23:49
  Degrees
• 23:50
  of
• 23:51
  Freedom.
• 23:52
  There
• 23:52
  are
• 23:53
  other
• 23:54
  one
• 23:54
  who
• 23:54
  go
• 23:54
  to
• 23:55
  what
• 23:55
  I
• 23:55
  call
• 23:55
  the
• 23:55
  third
• 23:56
  or
• 23:56
  the
• 23:56
  fourth
• 23:56
  turning.
• 23:57
  In
• 23:57
  this
• 23:57
  teaching,
• 23:59
  freedom
• 24:00
  appears
• 24:01
  independent
• 24:02
  from
• 24:03
  the
• 24:03
  ground
• 24:03
  of
• 24:04
  being.
• 24:06
  And
• 24:06
  I
• 24:07
  hope
• 24:07
  that
• 24:08
  before
• 24:08
  we'll
• 24:08
  finish,
• 24:09
  we'll
• 24:09
  revisit
• 24:10
  your
• 24:10
  books
• 24:10
  Runaway
• 24:11
  Realization
• 24:12
  and
• 24:12
  Alchemy
• 24:12
  of
• 24:12
  Freedom.
• 24:13
  Where
• 24:14
  maybe
• 24:15
  independent
• 24:16
  from
• 24:16
  the
• 24:16
  ground
• 24:16
  of
• 24:17
  being.
• 24:17
  Yeah,
• 24:18
  but
• 24:19
  we
• 24:19
  are
• 24:19
  here.
• 24:20
  We're
• 24:20
  dealing
• 24:21
  with
• 24:21
  the
• 24:21
  ground
• 24:21
  of
• 24:21
  being,
• 24:22
  ground
• 24:22
  of
• 24:22
  awareness
• 24:23
  and
• 24:24
  the
• 24:24
  question
• 24:24
  of
• 24:25
  ground.
• 24:26
  Because
• 24:26
  if
• 24:26
  you
• 24:26
  go
• 24:27
  third
• 24:27
  turning,
• 24:27
  there's
• 24:28
  no
• 24:28
  ground.
• 24:30
  Here
• 24:30
  we're
• 24:30
  talking
• 24:31
  about
• 24:31
  ground.
• 24:32
  You
• 24:32
  see,
• 24:33
  Mahamudra
• 24:34
  always
• 24:34
  talk
• 24:34
  about
• 24:34
  ground.
• 24:36
  Dzogchen
• 24:36
  always
• 24:37
  talk
• 24:37
  about
• 24:37
  ground.
• 24:38
  And
• 24:39
  Vevi
• 24:39
  Dhan
• 24:39
  always
• 24:40
  talk
• 24:40
  about
• 24:40
  ground.
• 24:41
  If
• 24:41
  you
• 24:41
  go
• 24:41
  third
• 24:42
  turning,
• 24:43
  a
• 24:43
  ground
• 24:43
  is
• 24:43
  a
• 24:44
  concept.
• 24:46
  There's
• 24:46
  no
• 24:47
  ground.
• 24:48
  And
• 24:48
  then
• 24:48
  that
• 24:49
  is
• 24:49
  scary
• 24:50
  for
• 24:50
  most
• 24:50
  people.
• 24:52
  For
• 24:52
  there
• 24:53
  to
• 24:53
  be
• 24:53
  no
• 24:53
  ground,
• 24:54
  to
• 24:54
  be
• 24:54
  ground.
• 24:55
  You
• 24:56
  know,
• 24:57
  the
• 24:57
  mind
• 24:58
  or
• 24:58
  the
• 24:58
  soul
• 25:00
  feels
• 25:00
  more
• 25:00
  comfortable
• 25:01
  with
• 25:01
  the
• 25:01
  ground.
• 25:02
  What
• 25:03
  is
• 25:03
  it
• 25:03
  like
• 25:03
  to
• 25:03
  realize
• 25:04
  that
• 25:04
  there's
• 25:05
  no
• 25:05
  ground?
• 25:06
  Is
• 25:06
  it
• 25:06
  a
• 25:06
  liberation
• 25:07
  or
• 25:07
  is
• 25:07
  it
• 25:08
  scary?
• 25:08
  Or
• 25:09
  how
• 25:09
  did
• 25:09
  you
• 25:09
  experience
• 25:09
  that
• 25:10
  at.
• 25:10
  The
• 25:10
  beginning
• 25:11
  is
• 25:11
  scary,
• 25:11
  confusing,
• 25:12
  disorienting.
• 25:13
  And
• 25:13
  then
• 25:13
  at
• 25:14
  some
• 25:14
  point
• 25:14
  I
• 25:14
  realized
• 25:15
  it
• 25:15
  is
• 25:15
  more
• 25:15
  freedom.
• 25:18
  Yeah.
• 25:20
  And
• 25:20
  one
• 25:20
  of
• 25:20
  the
• 25:20
  freedoms
• 25:21
  you
• 25:21
  point
• 25:22
  to
• 25:22
  amid
• 25:23
  is
• 25:23
  the.
• 25:24
  Is
• 25:24
  the
• 25:25
  freedom
• 25:25
  that
• 25:25
  comes
• 25:25
  from
• 25:26
  transcending
• 25:27
  conceptual
• 25:28
  dichotomies.
• 25:29
  And
• 25:29
  you
• 25:29
  point
• 25:29
  out
• 25:30
  that
• 25:30
  as
• 25:30
  an
• 25:31
  extension,
• 25:31
  as
• 25:31
  it
• 25:32
  were,
• 25:32
  of
• 25:32
  your
• 25:32
  discussion
• 25:33
  of.
• 25:34
  Of
• 25:34
  your
• 25:34
  discussion
• 25:35
  of
• 25:35
  non
• 25:35
  conceptual
• 25:36
  awareness,
• 25:36
  you
• 25:37
  point
• 25:37
  out
• 25:37
  that
• 25:38
  most
• 25:39
  of
• 25:39
  our
• 25:39
  experience
• 25:40
  and
• 25:41
  understanding
• 25:41
  of
• 25:42
  reality
• 25:42
  is
• 25:43
  structured
• 25:44
  by
• 25:44
  a
• 25:45
  variety
• 25:45
  of
• 25:45
  dichotomies.
• 25:46
  For
• 25:47
  example,
• 25:47
  the
• 25:47
  manifest,
• 25:48
  the
• 25:48
  Unmanifest,
• 25:49
  spiritual,
• 25:50
  mundane
• 25:51
  or
• 25:52
  concept
• 25:53
  of
• 25:53
  being
• 25:54
  and
• 25:54
  doing,
• 25:54
  which
• 25:55
  I
• 25:55
  certainly
• 25:55
  want
• 25:55
  to
• 25:55
  get
• 25:55
  into.
• 25:56
  But
• 25:56
  maybe,
• 25:56
  maybe
• 25:57
  you'd
• 25:57
  like
• 25:57
  to,
• 25:58
  or
• 25:58
  certainly
• 25:59
  like
• 25:59
  to
• 25:59
  invite
• 25:59
  you
• 26:00
  to
• 26:00
  talk
• 26:00
  some
• 26:01
  about
• 26:01
  this
• 26:01
  general
• 26:02
  idea
• 26:03
  of
• 26:03
  our
• 26:03
  entrapment
• 26:04
  in
• 26:04
  dichotomies.
• 26:06
  Yeah,
• 26:06
  that's
• 26:07
  true.
• 26:08
  You
• 26:08
  see,
• 26:09
  but
• 26:09
  dichotomies
• 26:10
  are
• 26:11
  conceptual.
• 26:12
  There
• 26:13
  are
• 26:13
  no
• 26:13
  dichotomies,
• 26:14
  not
• 26:14
  conceptual.
• 26:16
  So
• 26:16
  the
• 26:18
  conceptual
• 26:18
  world,
• 26:20
  especially
• 26:20
  when
• 26:21
  you
• 26:21
  get
• 26:21
  the
• 26:21
  ordinary
• 26:22
  mind
• 26:23
  based
• 26:23
  on
• 26:23
  dichotomy,
• 26:25
  you
• 26:25
  know,
• 26:25
  the
• 26:26
  way
• 26:26
  we
• 26:26
  understand
• 26:27
  things
• 26:27
  in
• 26:28
  ordinary
• 26:28
  sense,
• 26:29
  and
• 26:29
  we
• 26:30
  need
• 26:30
  the
• 26:30
  dichotomy,
• 26:31
  you
• 26:31
  know,
• 26:32
  to
• 26:32
  understand
• 26:33
  the
• 26:33
  short
• 26:33
  and
• 26:34
  long
• 26:34
  and
• 26:35
  big
• 26:35
  and
• 26:35
  small,
• 26:36
  you
• 26:36
  know,
• 26:37
  practically
• 26:38
  speaking,
• 26:38
  it's
• 26:39
  needed.
• 26:39
  That's
• 26:39
  why,
• 26:39
  you
• 26:40
  know,
• 26:40
  psychologists
• 26:41
  talk
• 26:41
  about
• 26:43
  it's
• 26:43
  an
• 26:44
  achievement,
• 26:44
  psychological
• 26:45
  achievement,
• 26:46
  because
• 26:46
  it's
• 26:47
  needed,
• 26:47
  you
• 26:47
  know.
• 26:48
  However,
• 26:50
  those
• 26:50
  dichotomy,
• 26:51
  when
• 26:51
  we
• 26:51
  go
• 26:51
  deeper
• 26:52
  into
• 26:52
  our,
• 26:53
  into
• 26:53
  our
• 26:53
  being,
• 26:54
  when
• 26:54
  we
• 26:54
  are
• 26:56
  this
• 26:56
  spiritual
• 26:57
  liberation,
• 26:58
  those
• 26:58
  dichotomies
• 26:59
  can
• 27:00
  be
• 27:01
  stumbling
• 27:01
  blocks
• 27:02
  on
• 27:02
  the
• 27:02
  way.
• 27:04
  Any
• 27:05
  dichotomy
• 27:06
  such
• 27:07
  as
• 27:07
  spirit
• 27:07
  and
• 27:07
  matter.
• 27:08
  Yeah.
• 27:09
  Out
• 27:09
  becomes
• 27:10
  a
• 27:10
  dichotomy
• 27:11
  or
• 27:12
  dichotomy
• 27:13
  of
• 27:13
  being
• 27:14
  or
• 27:14
  non
• 27:14
  being.
• 27:17
  For
• 27:17
  instance.
• 27:19
  That's
• 27:19
  a
• 27:19
  deep
• 27:20
  dichotomy.
• 27:21
  Philosophers
• 27:21
  deal
• 27:21
  with
• 27:22
  it
• 27:22
  all
• 27:22
  the
• 27:22
  time.
• 27:24
  But
• 27:25
  that's
• 27:25
  a
• 27:25
  deep
• 27:26
  question.
• 27:26
  Hopefully
• 27:27
  we'll
• 27:27
  get
• 27:27
  to
• 27:27
  it
• 27:27
  in
• 27:28
  more
• 27:28
  detail
• 27:28
  at
• 27:29
  some
• 27:29
  point.
• 27:30
  You
• 27:30
  know,
• 27:31
  we're
• 27:31
  dealing
• 27:32
  with
• 27:32
  these
• 27:32
  two
• 27:33
  parts
• 27:33
  about
• 27:34
  pure
• 27:34
  presence
• 27:35
  and
• 27:35
  pure
• 27:36
  awareness
• 27:38
  here
• 27:38
  and
• 27:39
  transitioning
• 27:40
  from
• 27:40
  one
• 27:40
  to
• 27:41
  the
• 27:41
  other
• 27:41
  and
• 27:42
  how
• 27:42
  they
• 27:42
  could
• 27:42
  be
• 27:42
  both
• 27:43
  present
• 27:44
  at
• 27:44
  the
• 27:44
  same
• 27:44
  time
• 27:45
  as
• 27:45
  one
• 27:45
  dimension,
• 27:47
  which
• 27:48
  is
• 27:48
  awareness.
• 27:48
  Knowing.
• 27:49
  It
• 27:49
  is
• 27:49
  awareness,
• 27:51
  you
• 27:51
  see,
• 27:54
  which
• 27:54
  is
• 27:54
  really
• 27:54
  the
• 27:55
  basis
• 27:55
  of
• 27:55
  the
• 27:55
  ordinary
• 27:56
  mind.
• 27:57
  The
• 27:57
  ordinary
• 27:57
  mind
• 27:58
  has
• 27:58
  awareness
• 27:58
  and
• 27:59
  has
• 27:59
  knowing.
• 28:01
  Have
• 28:01
  you
• 28:01
  noticed
• 28:01
  that
• 28:03
  the
• 28:03
  ordinary
• 28:03
  mind,
• 28:05
  it's
• 28:05
  aware
• 28:06
  of
• 28:06
  its
• 28:06
  thoughts,
• 28:07
  aware
• 28:09
  it's
• 28:09
  perceived,
• 28:10
  but
• 28:10
  it's
• 28:11
  also
• 28:12
  that
• 28:13
  knows
• 28:13
  what
• 28:14
  it's
• 28:14
  aware
• 28:14
  of.
• 28:15
  And
• 28:16
  without
• 28:17
  them
• 28:18
  you
• 28:18
  can't
• 28:19
  have
• 28:19
  a
• 28:19
  mind.
• 28:21
  And
• 28:22
  one
• 28:22
  of
• 28:22
  the
• 28:22
  things
• 28:22
  you
• 28:23
  point
• 28:23
  out,
• 28:23
  Amit,
• 28:23
  is
• 28:24
  that
• 28:24
  our
• 28:25
  so
• 28:25
  called
• 28:25
  ordinary
• 28:26
  awareness,
• 28:27
  actually
• 28:27
  when
• 28:28
  we
• 28:28
  recognize
• 28:29
  it
• 28:29
  for
• 28:29
  what
• 28:29
  it
• 28:29
  is,
• 28:30
  we
• 28:30
  find
• 28:30
  that
• 28:30
  it
• 28:31
  is
• 28:32
  a
• 28:32
  much
• 28:33
  more
• 28:33
  profound
• 28:35
  radical
• 28:35
  awareness.
• 28:37
  Yeah,
• 28:38
  because
• 28:38
  awareness
• 28:39
  is
• 28:39
  always
• 28:39
  awareness.
• 28:41
  So
• 28:41
  usually
• 28:42
  in
• 28:43
  the
• 28:43
  ordinary
• 28:44
  experience
• 28:46
  we
• 28:46
  are
• 28:46
  aware,
• 28:47
  but
• 28:47
  we
• 28:47
  don't
• 28:48
  recognize
• 28:48
  the
• 28:48
  awareness
• 28:49
  for
• 28:49
  what
• 28:50
  it
• 28:50
  is.
• 28:51
  We
• 28:51
  only
• 28:51
  know
• 28:52
  the
• 28:53
  function
• 28:53
  of
• 28:53
  awareness,
• 28:54
  which
• 28:55
  is
• 28:55
  sensitivity
• 28:56
  or
• 28:56
  perceptuality.
• 28:58
  And
• 28:59
  that
• 28:59
  is
• 28:59
  what
• 29:00
  the
• 29:00
  cognitive
• 29:01
  scientists
• 29:02
  deal
• 29:02
  with.
• 29:04
  All
• 29:04
  the
• 29:04
  theories
• 29:04
  of
• 29:05
  consciousness,
• 29:05
  of
• 29:06
  cognition
• 29:06
  that
• 29:06
  the
• 29:06
  neuroscientists
• 29:07
  and
• 29:08
  scientists
• 29:08
  are
• 29:09
  dealing
• 29:09
  with
• 29:10
  is
• 29:10
  more
• 29:11
  the
• 29:12
  process
• 29:13
  of
• 29:14
  perception
• 29:15
  and
• 29:15
  recognition
• 29:16
  of
• 29:16
  what
• 29:16
  we
• 29:17
  perceive.
• 29:18
  They're
• 29:18
  not
• 29:18
  looking
• 29:18
  at
• 29:19
  the
• 29:19
  ontology
• 29:19
  of
• 29:20
  it,
• 29:22
  not
• 29:22
  looking
• 29:22
  at
• 29:23
  the
• 29:23
  ground.
• 29:24
  And
• 29:24
  they
• 29:25
  don't,
• 29:25
  they
• 29:25
  don't
• 29:26
  claim
• 29:26
  they're
• 29:27
  looking
• 29:27
  at
• 29:27
  the
• 29:27
  ground.
• 29:27
  They
• 29:27
  don't
• 29:28
  even
• 29:28
  conceptualize.
• 29:29
  There
• 29:29
  is
• 29:29
  a
• 29:30
  ground.
• 29:33
  I
• 29:33
  mean,
• 29:34
  can
• 29:34
  I
• 29:34
  ask
• 29:34
  you
• 29:34
  something
• 29:34
  that's
• 29:35
  been.
• 29:36
  Anyway,
• 29:36
  I
• 29:36
  want
• 29:36
  to
• 29:36
  take
• 29:37
  the
• 29:37
  opportunity
• 29:37
  while
• 29:37
  you're
• 29:38
  here.
• 29:39
  You
• 29:39
  studied
• 29:40
  physics
• 29:41
  at
• 29:41
  Berkeley,
• 29:42
  one
• 29:42
  of
• 29:42
  the
• 29:42
  great
• 29:42
  universities
• 29:43
  even
• 29:43
  taught
• 29:43
  there.
• 29:44
  And
• 29:44
  I.
• 29:45
  When
• 29:45
  I
• 29:45
  was
• 29:45
  in
• 29:45
  grad
• 29:46
  school,
• 29:46
  I
• 29:46
  Fritjof
• 29:47
  Capra,
• 29:47
  I
• 29:47
  was
• 29:47
  his
• 29:47
  assistant.
• 29:48
  So
• 29:48
  I
• 29:49
  became
• 29:49
  introduced
• 29:49
  to
• 29:49
  the
• 29:50
  world
• 29:50
  of
• 29:50
  quantum
• 29:50
  physics.
• 29:51
  And
• 29:51
  I've
• 29:51
  kind
• 29:51
  of
• 29:51
  followed
• 29:52
  it.
• 29:52
  And
• 29:52
  I
• 29:52
  don't.
• 29:53
  I
• 29:53
  don't
• 29:53
  speak
• 29:53
  the
• 29:53
  language
• 29:54
  of
• 29:54
  complex
• 29:55
  mathematics,
• 29:55
  but
• 29:56
  I
• 29:56
  try
• 29:56
  to
• 29:56
  understand
• 29:56
  as
• 29:57
  much
• 29:57
  as
• 29:57
  I
• 29:57
  can.
• 29:58
  But
• 29:58
  it
• 29:58
  seems
• 29:59
  that
• 30:00
  they're
• 30:00
  in
• 30:00
  a
• 30:00
  cul
• 30:01
  de
• 30:01
  sac
• 30:01
  right
• 30:01
  now
• 30:02
  in
• 30:02
  general,
• 30:03
  because
• 30:03
  they
• 30:04
  are
• 30:04
  ignoring.
• 30:07
  The
• 30:07
  stuff
• 30:07
  that.
• 30:07
  You'Re
• 30:07
  talking
• 30:08
  about,
• 30:08
  ontology,
• 30:09
  the
• 30:09
  ground
• 30:09
  of
• 30:09
  being,
• 30:10
  emptiness
• 30:11
  and
• 30:12
  fullness
• 30:12
  and
• 30:12
  all
• 30:12
  these
• 30:12
  things
• 30:13
  you're
• 30:13
  talking
• 30:13
  about.
• 30:13
  And
• 30:13
  it
• 30:14
  seems
• 30:14
  to
• 30:14
  me
• 30:14
  there's.
• 30:14
  There
• 30:15
  would
• 30:15
  be
• 30:15
  a
• 30:15
  place.
• 30:15
  I
• 30:16
  mean,
• 30:16
  consciousness.
• 30:16
  They
• 30:17
  don't
• 30:17
  like
• 30:17
  that
• 30:17
  either.
• 30:17
  It's
• 30:18
  like
• 30:18
  one
• 30:18
  quadrant
• 30:19
  trying
• 30:19
  to
• 30:20
  figure
• 30:20
  out
• 30:20
  the
• 30:20
  nature
• 30:20
  of
• 30:20
  reality.
• 30:21
  And
• 30:21
  it's
• 30:21
  not
• 30:21
  working
• 30:22
  very
• 30:22
  well.
• 30:23
  So
• 30:24
  I
• 30:24
  just
• 30:24
  imagine
• 30:25
  something
• 30:25
  that
• 30:25
  would
• 30:25
  be
• 30:25
  called,
• 30:26
  like,
• 30:26
  integral
• 30:26
  physics.
• 30:27
  That
• 30:28
  takes
• 30:28
  this
• 30:29
  knowledge,
• 30:29
  plus
• 30:30
  the
• 30:30
  scientific
• 30:30
  knowledge
• 30:31
  and
• 30:31
  bringing
• 30:31
  it
• 30:31
  together
• 30:31
  in
• 30:32
  some
• 30:32
  kind
• 30:32
  of
• 30:32
  whole
• 30:32
  where
• 30:32
  you
• 30:32
  would
• 30:33
  actually
• 30:34
  have
• 30:34
  wisdom
• 30:34
  or
• 30:36
  more
• 30:37
  understanding
• 30:37
  about
• 30:37
  the
• 30:38
  nature
• 30:38
  of
• 30:38
  what
• 30:38
  is.
• 30:43
  Well,
• 30:44
  yeah,
• 30:44
  I
• 30:44
  mean,
• 30:45
  I
• 30:45
  think.
• 30:47
  Yeah,
• 30:47
  science
• 30:49
  as
• 30:49
  it
• 30:49
  started
• 30:50
  as
• 30:50
  practice,
• 30:51
  is
• 30:51
  not
• 30:51
  attempting
• 30:52
  to
• 30:52
  really
• 30:52
  understand
• 30:53
  the
• 30:54
  ground
• 30:54
  of
• 30:54
  reality.
• 30:56
  And
• 30:57
  it
• 30:57
  might,
• 30:57
  at
• 30:58
  some
• 30:58
  point
• 30:58
  recognize
• 30:59
  it
• 30:59
  will
• 30:59
  need
• 31:00
  to.
• 31:01
  To
• 31:01
  keep
• 31:02
  the
• 31:02
  progress
• 31:04
  further.
• 31:04
  You
• 31:04
  know,
• 31:05
  I
• 31:06
  think
• 31:06
  that's
• 31:06
  possible.
• 31:07
  We
• 31:07
  don't
• 31:07
  know
• 31:08
  will
• 31:08
  that
• 31:08
  happen.
• 31:10
  And
• 31:10
  as
• 31:10
  you
• 31:10
  know,
• 31:11
  there
• 31:11
  are
• 31:11
  many
• 31:11
  scientists
• 31:12
  who.
• 31:14
  Neuroscientists,
• 31:15
  who
• 31:15
  have
• 31:15
  advanced
• 31:16
  theories
• 31:17
  of
• 31:17
  consciousness.
• 31:19
  Theories
• 31:19
  explain
• 31:20
  what
• 31:20
  consciousness
• 31:21
  is,
• 31:22
  you
• 31:22
  know,
• 31:23
  like
• 31:24
  Rajah
• 31:25
  Pendros,
• 31:25
  for
• 31:25
  instance,
• 31:28
  consciousness
• 31:28
  and
• 31:29
  microtubules
• 31:30
  and
• 31:30
  quantum
• 31:31
  processes
• 31:32
  and
• 31:33
  neurons.
• 31:36
  But
• 31:37
  he
• 31:37
  admits
• 31:38
  that
• 31:40
  we're
• 31:40
  not
• 31:40
  close
• 31:41
  to
• 31:41
  understanding
• 31:41
  consciousness.
• 31:43
  Even
• 31:43
  though
• 31:44
  he
• 31:44
  has
• 31:44
  a
• 31:44
  theory
• 31:45
  and
• 31:45
  he
• 31:45
  defends
• 31:45
  it
• 31:45
  and
• 31:46
  all
• 31:46
  of
• 31:46
  that.
• 31:46
  He's
• 31:47
  humble
• 31:47
  enough
• 31:47
  to
• 31:48
  know
• 31:48
  that
• 31:48
  we
• 31:48
  are
• 31:48
  at
• 31:49
  the
• 31:49
  beginning
• 31:49
  of
• 31:49
  understanding
• 31:50
  things.
• 31:51
  There's
• 31:52
  another
• 31:52
  physicist,
• 31:53
  Italian,
• 31:54
  Federico
• 31:55
  Fagan
• 31:56
  Eigen,
• 31:57
  I
• 31:57
  think
• 31:57
  his
• 31:57
  name,
• 31:58
  who
• 31:58
  is
• 31:58
  advancing
• 31:59
  a
• 31:59
  theory
• 32:00
  of
• 32:00
  consciousness
• 32:01
  in
• 32:01
  the
• 32:01
  last
• 32:01
  few
• 32:02
  years.
• 32:02
  When
• 32:03
  he
• 32:03
  talks
• 32:03
  about
• 32:04
  consciousness
• 32:05
  as
• 32:06
  primary.
• 32:09
  His
• 32:09
  theory
• 32:10
  is
• 32:10
  that
• 32:10
  consciousness
• 32:11
  and
• 32:11
  will
• 32:12
  are
• 32:12
  primary
• 32:12
  meaning,
• 32:13
  consciousness
• 32:13
  and
• 32:13
  choice
• 32:14
  are
• 32:14
  primary
• 32:16
  and
• 32:17
  other
• 32:17
  things.
• 32:18
  And
• 32:20
  although
• 32:21
  he
• 32:22
  has
• 32:22
  some
• 32:22
  spiritual
• 32:23
  experience,
• 32:24
  he
• 32:24
  knows
• 32:24
  the
• 32:24
  consciousness.
• 32:25
  So
• 32:25
  he
• 32:25
  trying
• 32:25
  to
• 32:26
  make.
• 32:26
  I
• 32:26
  don't
• 32:26
  know
• 32:27
  if
• 32:27
  he
• 32:27
  makes
• 32:27
  it
• 32:27
  mathematical
• 32:28
  because
• 32:28
  the
• 32:29
  scientists
• 32:29
  will
• 32:29
  not
• 32:29
  accept
• 32:30
  it
• 32:30
  unless
• 32:31
  he
• 32:31
  could
• 32:31
  put
• 32:31
  it
• 32:32
  into
• 32:33
  symbols
• 32:33
  and
• 32:33
  mathematics
• 32:34
  and
• 32:35
  something
• 32:35
  that
• 32:35
  can
• 32:35
  be
• 32:36
  verified.
• 32:37
  But
• 32:38
  he's
• 32:38
  trying
• 32:38
  to
• 32:39
  do
• 32:39
  it.
• 32:39
  So
• 32:39
  there
• 32:39
  are
• 32:40
  people
• 32:40
  trying
• 32:40
  to
• 32:40
  do
• 32:41
  it
• 32:41
  that
• 32:41
  way.
• 32:42
  You
• 32:42
  know,
• 32:43
  Hameed
• 32:43
  how
• 32:43
  far
• 32:44
  do
• 32:44
  you
• 32:44
  think
• 32:44
  mathematics
• 32:45
  can
• 32:45
  take
• 32:45
  us?
• 32:50
  I
• 32:50
  have
• 32:50
  friends
• 32:50
  who
• 32:50
  are
• 32:51
  pure
• 32:51
  mathematicians.
• 32:54
  They
• 32:55
  think
• 32:55
  that
• 32:55
  mathematics
• 32:56
  itself,
• 32:58
  itself
• 32:59
  is
• 33:00
  transcendent
• 33:01
  activity.
• 33:03
  And
• 33:05
  I
• 33:05
  remember
• 33:06
  Roger
• 33:06
  Penn
• 33:06
  wrote
• 33:07
  in
• 33:07
  his
• 33:08
  book
• 33:13
  Emperor
• 33:13
  with
• 33:14
  no
• 33:14
  Mind
• 33:14
  or
• 33:15
  Thing,
• 33:15
  he
• 33:15
  called
• 33:15
  it
• 33:17
  1989.
• 33:18
  Yeah.
• 33:18
  He
• 33:18
  talked
• 33:19
  about
• 33:19
  how
• 33:19
  mathematics
• 33:22
  comes
• 33:22
  from
• 33:23
  Platonic
• 33:24
  realm.
• 33:26
  And
• 33:27
  some
• 33:27
  mathematicians
• 33:28
  think
• 33:28
  that
• 33:29
  mathematics
• 33:30
  are
• 33:30
  discovered
• 33:31
  because
• 33:32
  there's
• 33:32
  a
• 33:32
  realm
• 33:32
  of
• 33:33
  math.
• 33:34
  And
• 33:34
  there's
• 33:34
  a
• 33:34
  disagreement
• 33:35
  in
• 33:35
  the
• 33:36
  mathematician
• 33:36
  and
• 33:37
  philosophers
• 33:38
  whether
• 33:39
  mathematics
• 33:40
  is
• 33:42
  math
• 33:42
  is
• 33:42
  a
• 33:43
  discovery
• 33:44
  or
• 33:44
  is
• 33:44
  it
• 33:45
  creation,
• 33:46
  development
• 33:46
  of
• 33:47
  the
• 33:47
  mind.
• 33:49
  Well,
• 33:49
  let's
• 33:49
  say,
• 33:49
  for
• 33:50
  instance,
• 33:50
  Euclid
• 33:51
  Theorem,
• 33:51
  for
• 33:52
  instance,
• 33:53
  is
• 33:53
  not
• 33:53
  a
• 33:53
  creation.
• 33:55
  That
• 33:55
  is
• 33:55
  a
• 33:56
  property
• 33:56
  of
• 33:56
  reality.
• 33:59
  It
• 33:59
  is
• 33:59
  true
• 34:00
  everywhere
• 34:00
  there
• 34:01
  is
• 34:02
  flat
• 34:03
  space,
• 34:04
  meaning
• 34:04
  not
• 34:05
  warped
• 34:06
  space.
• 34:08
  Euclid
• 34:09
  Theorem
• 34:10
  can
• 34:10
  be
• 34:10
  proven
• 34:10
  by
• 34:11
  anybody,
• 34:12
  you
• 34:12
  know,
• 34:13
  anywhere.
• 34:13
  So
• 34:13
  in
• 34:14
  that
• 34:14
  sense,
• 34:15
  Euclid
• 34:15
  Theorem
• 34:16
  is
• 34:17
  the
• 34:17
  Platonic
• 34:18
  form.
• 34:19
  So,
• 34:21
  I
• 34:22
  mean,
• 34:22
  I
• 34:22
  don't
• 34:23
  know.
• 34:23
  I
• 34:23
  mean,
• 34:23
  that's
• 34:24
  a
• 34:24
  big
• 34:24
  topic.
• 34:24
  You
• 34:25
  know,
• 34:25
  it's
• 34:26
  interesting
• 34:27
  to
• 34:27
  talk
• 34:28
  with
• 34:28
  scientists
• 34:28
  about
• 34:29
  this,
• 34:29
  especially
• 34:29
  the
• 34:30
  ones
• 34:30
  who
• 34:30
  are
• 34:30
  trying
• 34:30
  to
• 34:30
  understand,
• 34:32
  especially
• 34:32
  quantum
• 34:33
  theory.
• 34:33
  You
• 34:34
  remember,
• 34:34
  I
• 34:35
  mean,
• 34:35
  one
• 34:35
  thing,
• 34:37
  Penrose
• 34:38
  and
• 34:38
  Fagan,
• 34:39
  I
• 34:39
  was
• 34:40
  watching
• 34:42
  dialogue
• 34:42
  between
• 34:42
  them.
• 34:44
  We're
• 34:44
  talking
• 34:44
  about
• 34:45
  consciousness
• 34:46
  and
• 34:46
  quantum
• 34:47
  theory
• 34:47
  and
• 34:48
  how
• 34:48
  quantum
• 34:49
  theory,
• 34:49
  quantum
• 34:50
  mechanics,
• 34:51
  there's
• 34:51
  a
• 34:52
  need
• 34:52
  for
• 34:52
  the
• 34:52
  observer,
• 34:53
  which
• 34:53
  means
• 34:54
  a
• 34:54
  need
• 34:54
  for
• 34:54
  consciousness.
• 34:56
  It
• 34:56
  has
• 34:56
  to
• 34:57
  be.
• 34:57
  And
• 34:57
  that's
• 34:57
  where
• 34:58
  Federico
• 34:58
  comes.
• 34:59
  He
• 34:59
  said
• 35:01
  free
• 35:01
  will
• 35:01
  mean
• 35:01
  you
• 35:02
  choose
• 35:02
  to
• 35:03
  make
• 35:03
  this
• 35:04
  experiment,
• 35:04
  not
• 35:04
  that
• 35:05
  one,
• 35:06
  you
• 35:06
  know,
• 35:07
  so
• 35:08
  he
• 35:08
  thinks
• 35:08
  of
• 35:08
  it
• 35:08
  as
• 35:09
  fundamental.
• 35:10
  Penrose,
• 35:11
  of
• 35:11
  course,
• 35:11
  doesn't
• 35:12
  agree
• 35:12
  with
• 35:12
  that.
• 35:13
  He
• 35:13
  thinks
• 35:15
  there
• 35:15
  was
• 35:15
  a
• 35:15
  collapse
• 35:16
  of
• 35:16
  the
• 35:16
  wave
• 35:16
  function
• 35:17
  before
• 35:17
  there
• 35:17
  was
• 35:17
  life,
• 35:18
  before
• 35:19
  there
• 35:19
  was
• 35:19
  consciousness.
• 35:20
  So
• 35:21
  there's
• 35:21
  a
• 35:22
  big,
• 35:22
  deep
• 35:22
  topic,
• 35:23
  you
• 35:23
  know,
• 35:24
  I
• 35:24
  don't
• 35:25
  know
• 35:25
  whether
• 35:25
  we
• 35:25
  could
• 35:26
  do
• 35:26
  it
• 35:26
  ourselves
• 35:27
  here.
• 35:27
  We
• 35:27
  try
• 35:28
  to
• 35:28
  understand
• 35:29
  the
• 35:30
  spiritual
• 35:30
  world,
• 35:31
  you
• 35:31
  know.
• 35:32
  Yeah.
• 35:32
  To
• 35:33
  transition
• 35:33
  to
• 35:34
  understanding
• 35:34
  the
• 35:34
  physical
• 35:35
  world
• 35:35
  from
• 35:35
  that
• 35:36
  perspective.
• 35:37
  Although
• 35:37
  there
• 35:37
  are
• 35:37
  many
• 35:38
  theories
• 35:38
  that
• 35:39
  try
• 35:39
  to
• 35:39
  do
• 35:39
  that.
• 35:40
  I
• 35:40
  don't
• 35:40
  think
• 35:41
  any
• 35:41
  one
• 35:41
  of
• 35:41
  them
• 35:41
  is
• 35:42
  still,
• 35:42
  you
• 35:43
  know,
• 35:43
  is
• 35:43
  accepted
• 35:44
  or
• 35:44
  hold
• 35:45
  much
• 35:45
  water
• 35:45
  yet.
• 35:48
  Well,
• 35:48
  your.
• 35:48
  Your
• 35:48
  work
• 35:49
  certainly
• 35:49
  has
• 35:49
  helped
• 35:49
  me
• 35:50
  to,
• 35:51
  I
• 35:51
  don't
• 35:51
  know,
• 35:51
  feel
• 35:51
  like
• 35:51
  I'm
• 35:52
  getting
• 35:52
  down
• 35:52
  to,
• 35:54
  you
• 35:54
  know,
• 35:54
  getting
• 35:54
  down
• 35:55
  to
• 35:55
  basic
• 35:56
  reality
• 35:57
  more
• 35:57
  than
• 35:57
  physics.
• 35:59
  Oh,
• 35:59
  yeah.
• 35:59
  For
• 36:00
  exponentially.
• 36:01
  Yes.
• 36:01
  I
• 36:02
  appreciate
• 36:03
  that
• 36:03
  you
• 36:03
  do
• 36:03
  that,
• 36:04
  that
• 36:04
  it's
• 36:05
  helping
• 36:05
  you
• 36:06
  get
• 36:07
  down
• 36:07
  to
• 36:07
  basic
• 36:07
  inexperience,
• 36:09
  but
• 36:09
  still
• 36:10
  doesn't
• 36:10
  mean
• 36:11
  I
• 36:11
  can
• 36:11
  put
• 36:11
  it
• 36:11
  in
• 36:11
  mathematics.
• 36:13
  I
• 36:13
  can't
• 36:14
  put
• 36:14
  it
• 36:14
  in.
• 36:14
  I
• 36:14
  tried,
• 36:15
  actually,
• 36:15
  years
• 36:15
  ago.
• 36:16
  Yeah.
• 36:17
  You
• 36:17
  said
• 36:17
  there
• 36:17
  were
• 36:17
  too
• 36:17
  many
• 36:18
  variables.
• 36:18
  You
• 36:18
  just
• 36:19
  couldn't
• 36:19
  get
• 36:19
  it
• 36:19
  done.
• 36:21
  I
• 36:21
  couldn't
• 36:22
  find
• 36:23
  tokens
• 36:23
  or
• 36:23
  some
• 36:23
  mathematician
• 36:24
  friends
• 36:24
  say,
• 36:25
  well,
• 36:25
  we
• 36:25
  might
• 36:25
  find
• 36:26
  the
• 36:26
  variable.
• 36:28
  I'm
• 36:28
  glad
• 36:28
  you
• 36:28
  can't
• 36:28
  amid,
• 36:29
  because
• 36:29
  I
• 36:29
  certainly
• 36:30
  wouldn't
• 36:30
  understand
• 36:31
  it.
• 36:33
  I
• 36:33
  don't
• 36:33
  know.
• 36:34
  It's
• 36:34
  possible.
• 36:34
  You
• 36:34
  know,
• 36:35
  I
• 36:35
  thought
• 36:35
  at
• 36:35
  some
• 36:36
  point
• 36:36
  I
• 36:36
  might.
• 36:36
  I
• 36:37
  actually
• 36:37
  I
• 36:37
  wrote
• 36:38
  the
• 36:38
  differential
• 36:39
  equation,
• 36:40
  you
• 36:40
  know,
• 36:40
  a
• 36:41
  partial
• 36:41
  differential
• 36:41
  equation
• 36:42
  they
• 36:42
  call
• 36:42
  it,
• 36:43
  except
• 36:43
  I
• 36:44
  didn't
• 36:44
  know
• 36:44
  what
• 36:44
  the
• 36:45
  variable
• 36:46
  I
• 36:46
  needed.
• 36:46
  And
• 36:47
  now
• 36:47
  I
• 36:47
  was
• 36:48
  dealing
• 36:48
  with
• 36:48
  the
• 36:48
  quantum
• 36:49
  theory,
• 36:49
  you
• 36:50
  know,
• 36:50
  in
• 36:50
  a
• 36:50
  way
• 36:50
  to
• 36:51
  now
• 36:51
  they
• 36:52
  have
• 36:52
  the
• 36:52
  quantum
• 36:52
  field
• 36:53
  theory.
• 36:54
  And
• 36:54
  I
• 36:54
  hear
• 36:54
  that
• 36:55
  there
• 36:55
  might
• 36:55
  be
• 36:56
  more
• 36:56
  way
• 36:56
  of
• 36:56
  doing
• 36:57
  it
• 36:57
  from
• 36:57
  that
• 36:57
  perspective,
• 36:58
  but
• 36:59
  I
• 36:59
  don't
• 36:59
  understand
• 37:00
  enough
• 37:00
  to
• 37:00
  really
• 37:01
  use
• 37:01
  it.
• 37:02
  Well,
• 37:02
  let
• 37:03
  me
• 37:03
  throw
• 37:03
  in
• 37:03
  another
• 37:03
  perspective,
• 37:04
  Hameed.
• 37:05
  And
• 37:05
  that
• 37:05
  is
• 37:05
  for
• 37:06
  Ken
• 37:06
  Wilber
• 37:07
  edited
• 37:07
  a
• 37:07
  book
• 37:08
  Quantum
• 37:08
  Questions
• 37:09
  in
• 37:09
  which
• 37:10
  he
• 37:10
  took
• 37:10
  excerpts
• 37:11
  from
• 37:12
  a
• 37:12
  variety
• 37:13
  of
• 37:14
  physicists,
• 37:14
  primarily
• 37:15
  quantum
• 37:15
  physicists,
• 37:16
  talking
• 37:17
  about
• 37:17
  consciousness
• 37:18
  and
• 37:18
  of
• 37:18
  course
• 37:18
  the
• 37:18
  great,
• 37:19
  some
• 37:19
  of
• 37:19
  the
• 37:19
  great
• 37:20
  founders
• 37:20
  had
• 37:21
  spent
• 37:21
  a
• 37:21
  lot
• 37:21
  of
• 37:22
  time
• 37:22
  on
• 37:22
  that,
• 37:23
  as
• 37:24
  you
• 37:24
  well
• 37:24
  know
• 37:24
  better
• 37:25
  than
• 37:25
  I.
• 37:25
  But,
• 37:27
  but
• 37:27
  I
• 37:28
  remember
• 37:28
  Ken
• 37:29
  concluding
• 37:29
  that
• 37:30
  anyone
• 37:30
  who
• 37:30
  tries
• 37:31
  to
• 37:31
  tie
• 37:32
  a
• 37:32
  theory
• 37:33
  of
• 37:33
  fundamental
• 37:34
  reality
• 37:35
  and
• 37:35
  consciousness
• 37:36
  to
• 37:36
  the
• 37:36
  latest,
• 37:38
  latest
• 37:38
  variation
• 37:39
  of
• 37:39
  quantum
• 37:39
  physics
• 37:40
  is
• 37:40
  trying
• 37:40
  to.
• 37:40
  Trying
• 37:41
  to
• 37:41
  peg
• 37:41
  the,
• 37:42
  the
• 37:43
  trans
• 37:43
  temporal
• 37:44
  and
• 37:44
  the
• 37:45
  eternal
• 37:45
  to,
• 37:46
  to
• 37:46
  the
• 37:46
  transient.
• 37:47
  So
• 37:48
  yeah,
• 37:50
  I
• 37:50
  agree.
• 37:51
  I
• 37:51
  think
• 37:51
  it's
• 37:51
  true.
• 37:51
  I
• 37:52
  mean
• 37:53
  at
• 37:53
  the
• 37:53
  present
• 37:54
  time
• 37:54
  we
• 37:54
  cannot
• 37:55
  do
• 37:55
  it.
• 37:55
  I
• 37:55
  don't
• 37:55
  think
• 37:55
  it's
• 37:56
  doable.
• 37:57
  Who
• 37:57
  knows
• 37:57
  how
• 37:58
  humanity
• 37:59
  develops
• 38:00
  in
• 38:01
  10,000
• 38:02
  years?
• 38:03
  Who
• 38:03
  knows?
• 38:04
  Might
• 38:05
  find
• 38:05
  out
• 38:05
  our
• 38:05
  physics
• 38:06
  won't
• 38:07
  work
• 38:07
  without
• 38:07
  taking
• 38:08
  into
• 38:08
  consideration
• 38:09
  something
• 38:10
  about
• 38:10
  our
• 38:10
  true
• 38:11
  nature.
• 38:11
  It's
• 38:12
  possible.
• 38:12
  I
• 38:12
  don't
• 38:13
  know
• 38:13
  you
• 38:13
  know
• 38:13
  what
• 38:13
  I
• 38:14
  mean,
• 38:14
  but
• 38:15
  I
• 38:15
  can
• 38:16
  imagine
• 38:17
  it,
• 38:17
  but
• 38:17
  I
• 38:17
  don't
• 38:18
  know
• 38:18
  it.
• 38:19
  It's
• 38:20
  not
• 38:20
  functioning
• 38:20
  that
• 38:20
  way
• 38:21
  so
• 38:21
  far.
• 38:23
  No,
• 38:23
  it's
• 38:24
  not
• 38:24
  within
• 38:24
  my
• 38:25
  grasp.
• 38:26
  I
• 38:26
  don't
• 38:26
  know
• 38:26
  the
• 38:27
  grasp
• 38:27
  of
• 38:27
  humanity
• 38:28
  do
• 38:28
  that.
• 38:29
  Certainly
• 38:30
  not
• 38:30
  within
• 38:30
  mine.
• 38:31
  But
• 38:31
  coming
• 38:31
  down
• 38:32
  to
• 38:32
  something
• 38:33
  I
• 38:34
  might
• 38:34
  possibly
• 38:34
  understand,
• 38:35
  is
• 38:35
  there
• 38:35
  anything
• 38:36
  you'd
• 38:36
  like
• 38:36
  to
• 38:36
  say
• 38:36
  amid
• 38:37
  before
• 38:37
  we,
• 38:38
  before
• 38:39
  he
• 38:39
  conclude?
• 38:41
  Well,
• 38:42
  we're
• 38:42
  talking
• 38:42
  about
• 38:44
  this
• 38:44
  time
• 38:45
  about
• 38:46
  knowing
• 38:46
  and
• 38:47
  awareness
• 38:49
  and
• 38:49
  I
• 38:50
  think
• 38:50
  these
• 38:50
  are
• 38:50
  very
• 38:51
  important
• 38:51
  thing.
• 38:53
  Knowing
• 38:54
  is
• 38:54
  fundamental
• 38:55
  to
• 38:55
  the
• 38:55
  universe.
• 38:58
  Knowing
• 38:58
  is
• 38:59
  inherent
• 39:00
  in
• 39:00
  our
• 39:00
  true
• 39:01
  nature,
• 39:02
  even
• 39:02
  though
• 39:02
  it
• 39:02
  requires
• 39:04
  a
• 39:04
  being
• 39:04
  like
• 39:05
  a
• 39:05
  human
• 39:05
  being
• 39:05
  for
• 39:06
  this
• 39:06
  knowing
• 39:06
  to
• 39:08
  express
• 39:08
  itself.
• 39:09
  But
• 39:09
  that
• 39:10
  knowing
• 39:10
  depends
• 39:11
  on
• 39:11
  awareness,
• 39:13
  which
• 39:13
  is
• 39:15
  the
• 39:16
  underlying
• 39:17
  ground
• 39:18
  of
• 39:20
  transparency
• 39:21
  or
• 39:23
  thought.
• 39:23
  General
• 39:24
  call
• 39:24
  it
• 39:27
  empty.
• 39:28
  Empty
• 39:29
  clarity
• 39:33
  as
• 39:34
  just
• 39:34
  clarity
• 39:34
  with
• 39:35
  no
• 39:36
  fullness
• 39:37
  present
• 39:37
  has
• 39:37
  fullness.
• 39:38
  You
• 39:38
  see
• 39:39
  awareness,
• 39:40
  you
• 39:40
  can't
• 39:40
  say
• 39:41
  it
• 39:41
  has
• 39:41
  fullness.
• 39:41
  It's
• 39:42
  very
• 39:42
  ephemeral,
• 39:43
  very
• 39:44
  light,
• 39:45
  very
• 39:46
  completely
• 39:47
  non
• 39:47
  substantial.
• 39:50
  And
• 39:51
  it
• 39:51
  is
• 39:52
  important
• 39:52
  to
• 39:52
  realize
• 39:53
  both
• 39:54
  are
• 39:54
  possible.
• 39:55
  I
• 39:55
  mean
• 39:55
  sometimes
• 39:56
  people
• 39:56
  were
• 39:56
  looking
• 39:57
  for
• 39:57
  one
• 39:57
  but
• 39:57
  not
• 39:58
  the
• 39:58
  other.
• 39:58
  But
• 39:58
  there's
• 39:59
  no
• 39:59
  reason
• 39:59
  to
• 40:00
  choose,
• 40:01
  no
• 40:01
  reason
• 40:01
  to
• 40:02
  accept
• 40:03
  one
• 40:03
  or
• 40:03
  reject
• 40:04
  the
• 40:04
  other.
• 40:04
  There
• 40:04
  are
• 40:05
  two
• 40:05
  sides
• 40:05
  of
• 40:06
  the
• 40:06
  same
• 40:06
  thing.
• 40:08
  It
• 40:08
  can
• 40:08
  be
• 40:09
  pure
• 40:09
  being,
• 40:11
  completely
• 40:11
  being.
• 40:12
  The
• 40:12
  fullness
• 40:12
  of
• 40:12
  reality
• 40:13
  and
• 40:13
  richness
• 40:14
  or
• 40:14
  could
• 40:15
  be
• 40:15
  empty,
• 40:16
  transparent.
• 40:18
  Just
• 40:19
  perception.
• 40:25
  Ah,
• 40:25
  well,
• 40:28
  that's
• 40:28
  a
• 40:28
  very
• 40:28
  nice
• 40:29
  thing
• 40:29
  to
• 40:29
  leave
• 40:29
  us
• 40:29
  with.
• 40:30
  We
• 40:31
  can
• 40:31
  be
• 40:31
  both.
• 40:32
  We
• 40:32
  can
• 40:32
  be
• 40:33
  all.
• 40:33
  So
• 40:33
  you
• 40:34
  think
• 40:34
  we
• 40:34
  did
• 40:34
  it,
• 40:34
  Roger?
• 40:35
  We
• 40:35
  managed
• 40:38
  just
• 40:38
  in
• 40:38
  this
• 40:39
  chapter
• 40:39
  for
• 40:40
  the
• 40:40
  listeners,
• 40:40
  or
• 40:41
  they
• 40:41
  might
• 40:41
  be
• 40:41
  able
• 40:42
  to
• 40:42
  access.
• 40:43
  Read
• 40:43
  it.
• 40:44
  Well,
• 40:46
  we
• 40:46
  made
• 40:46
  a
• 40:47
  good
• 40:47
  try.
• 40:49
  Yeah.
• 40:49
  And
• 40:49
  sometimes
• 40:50
  your
• 40:50
  mind
• 40:50
  begins
• 40:51
  to
• 40:51
  crack
• 40:51
  with
• 40:51
  all
• 40:52
  this
• 40:52
  stuff
• 40:52
  and
• 40:52
  some
• 40:52
  light
• 40:53
  gets
• 40:53
  in.
• 40:55
  That's
• 40:55
  how
• 40:55
  I
• 40:55
  experience
• 40:55
  it.
• 40:56
  So
• 40:56
  thank
• 40:56
  you
• 40:56
  so
• 40:56
  much.
• 40:57
  There's
• 40:57
  a.
• 40:57
  It's
• 40:57
  a
• 40:57
  real
• 40:58
  teaching
• 40:58
  and
• 40:58
  transmission
• 40:59
  that
• 40:59
  happens
• 41:00
  for
• 41:00
  me.
• 41:00
  Hopefully,
• 41:02
  you
• 41:02
  know,
• 41:02
  it
• 41:03
  is
• 41:05
  helpful.
• 41:06
  You
• 41:06
  know,
• 41:09
  I
• 41:09
  mean,
• 41:09
  I'm
• 41:10
  thinking
• 41:11
  if
• 41:11
  somebody
• 41:11
  listens
• 41:12
  to
• 41:12
  this
• 41:13
  conversation,
• 41:14
  they
• 41:15
  can
• 41:15
  read
• 41:16
  those
• 41:16
  chapters
• 41:17
  and
• 41:17
  maybe
• 41:18
  are
• 41:18
  able
• 41:18
  to
• 41:19
  sort
• 41:19
  of
• 41:19
  get
• 41:19
  into
• 41:20
  them,
• 41:21
  you
• 41:21
  know?
• 41:22
  Yeah,
• 41:22
  indeed.
• 41:23
  And
• 41:25
  the
• 41:25
  chapters
• 41:26
  we've
• 41:26
  been
• 41:26
  discussing
• 41:27
  today
• 41:27
  were
• 41:27
  the
• 41:28
  final
• 41:28
  part
• 41:28
  of
• 41:28
  chapter
• 41:29
  18,
• 41:30
  which
• 41:30
  in
• 41:31
  which
• 41:31
  we
• 41:31
  discussed
• 41:32
  the
• 41:32
  reification
• 41:33
  and
• 41:33
  the
• 41:34
  way
• 41:34
  out
• 41:34
  of
• 41:34
  reification
• 41:35
  through
• 41:35
  inquiry.
• 41:36
  And
• 41:36
  then
• 41:37
  we
• 41:37
  moved
• 41:37
  into
• 41:38
  chapter
• 41:39
  19
• 41:39
  on
• 41:39
  awareness
• 41:40
  and
• 41:40
  the
• 41:40
  non
• 41:40
  conceptual
• 41:42
  and
• 41:42
  which
• 41:42
  we
• 41:43
  began
• 41:44
  to
• 41:45
  touch
• 41:45
  into
• 41:46
  pure
• 41:46
  awareness.
• 41:47
  And
• 41:47
  it's.
• 41:48
  It's
• 41:49
  incomprehensible
• 41:51
  or
• 41:51
  transcendent.
• 41:53
  No
• 41:53
  word.
• 41:54
  I'm
• 41:54
  trying
• 41:54
  to
• 41:55
  find
• 41:55
  words
• 41:55
  and
• 41:55
  of
• 41:55
  course
• 41:56
  I'm
• 41:56
  realizing
• 41:56
  that
• 41:56
  no
• 41:57
  word
• 41:57
  does
• 41:57
  it.
• 41:58
  But.
• 42:00
  But
• 42:01
  the
• 42:01
  non.
• 42:01
  Non
• 42:02
  awareness
• 42:02
  and
• 42:03
  non
• 42:03
  conceptual,
• 42:03
  perhaps
• 42:04
  we'll
• 42:04
  leave
• 42:04
  it
• 42:04
  at
• 42:04
  that.
• 42:05
  And
• 42:05
  they're
• 42:06
  very
• 42:06
  profound
• 42:07
  chapters
• 42:07
  and
• 42:07
  certainly
• 42:08
  worth
• 42:08
  deep
• 42:09
  study.
• 42:09
  So
• 42:10
  thank
• 42:10
  you
• 42:11
  so
• 42:11
  much,
• 42:11
  Hameed.
• 42:12
  Yeah.
• 42:13
  And
• 42:13
  thank
• 42:13
  everyone
• 42:13
  for
• 42:14
  being
• 42:14
  here
• 42:14
  with
• 42:14
  us
• 42:14
  and
• 42:14
  going
• 42:15
  on
• 42:15
  this
• 42:15
  journey.
• 42:16
  Good
• 42:16
  talking
• 42:17
  with
• 42:17
  you.
• 42:17
  Until
• 42:17
  next
• 42:18
  time.
• 42:18
  Okay,
• 42:19
  thanks
• 42:19
  for
• 42:20
  watching.
• 42:20
  Thank
• 42:20
  you.
• 42:21
  Another
• 42:22
  discussion.
• 42:23
  Yeah.
• 42:23
  Thank
• 42:24
  you.
• 42:24
  Thank
• 42:24
  you.
• 42:24
  Yeah,
• 42:25
  take
• 42:25
  care.
• 42:26
  You
• 42:26
  too.
• 42:27
  Thank
• 42:28
  you
• 42:28
  very
• 42:28
  much
• 42:29
  for
• 42:29
  being
• 42:29
  a
• 42:29
  part
• 42:29
  of
• 42:30
  this
• 42:30
  conversation.
• 42:31
  We
• 42:31
  hope
• 42:31
  that
• 42:31
  you
• 42:32
  were
• 42:32
  moved,
• 42:32
  as
• 42:32
  we
• 42:33
  are
• 42:33
  moved,
• 42:33
  being
• 42:33
  part
• 42:34
  of
• 42:34
  it
• 42:34
  ourselves.
• 42:35
  We'd
• 42:35
  also
• 42:36
  like
• 42:36
  to
• 42:36
  say
• 42:36
  that
• 42:36
  this
• 42:37
  is
• 42:37
  being
• 42:37
  funded
• 42:38
  by
• 42:38
  Roger
• 42:38
  and
• 42:38
  myself.
• 42:39
  It
• 42:39
  comes
• 42:39
  out
• 42:39
  of
• 42:39
  our
• 42:39
  pockets.
• 42:40
  So
• 42:40
  if
• 42:40
  you
• 42:40
  would
• 42:40
  like
• 42:41
  to
• 42:41
  help
• 42:41
  us
• 42:42
  to.
• 42:42
  Mainly
• 42:43
  to
• 42:43
  get
• 42:43
  this
• 42:43
  podcast
• 42:44
  out
• 42:44
  to
• 42:44
  more
• 42:44
  people
• 42:45
  because
• 42:45
  the
• 42:45
  bigger
• 42:45
  audience
• 42:46
  have.
• 42:46
  Which
• 42:46
  is
• 42:46
  steadily
• 42:47
  growing,
• 42:47
  but
• 42:47
  the
• 42:47
  more
• 42:48
  people
• 42:48
  we
• 42:48
  can
• 42:48
  reach
• 42:48
  and
• 42:49
  the
• 42:49
  more
• 42:49
  marketing
• 42:49
  we
• 42:50
  can
• 42:50
  do,
• 42:50
  the
• 42:50
  more
• 42:51
  positive
• 42:51
  effect
• 42:51
  we
• 42:52
  can
• 42:52
  have
• 42:52
  on
• 42:52
  the
• 42:52
  world.
• 42:53
  So
• 42:53
  we've
• 42:53
  done
• 42:53
  a
• 42:53
  couple
• 42:54
  of
• 42:54
  ways,
• 42:54
  but
• 42:54
  we'd
• 42:54
  like
• 42:54
  you
• 42:55
  to
• 42:55
  buy
• 42:55
  us
• 42:55
  a
• 42:55
  cup
• 42:56
  of
• 42:56
  coffee.
• 42:56
  Very
• 42:56
  simple.
• 42:57
  And
• 42:57
  I
• 42:57
  do
• 42:57
  that
• 42:58
  with
• 42:58
  podcasts
• 42:59
  that
• 42:59
  I
• 42:59
  support
• 43:00
  and
• 43:00
  I
• 43:00
  find
• 43:01
  it's
• 43:01
  very
• 43:01
  satisfying.
• 43:02
  So
• 43:02
  thank
• 43:02
  you
• 43:02
  for
• 43:03
  your
• 43:03
  help.
• 43:03
  Thank
• 43:03
  you
• 43:04
  for
• 43:04
  your
• 43:04
  presence
• 43:04
  and
• 43:05
  thank
• 43:05
  you
• 43:05
  for
• 43:05
  all
• 43:05
  you
• 43:06
  are
• 43:06
  and
• 43:06
  all
• 43:06
  you
• 43:06
  do.
• 43:07
  We
• 43:07
  love
• 43:07
  you.