Latest / The Elevator Careers Podcast / Difficult Leadership Lessons as an Elevator Company VP | Jeff Pugh

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Difficult Leadership Lessons as an Elevator Company VP | Jeff Pugh · The Elevator Careers Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: I have a team that was supposed to do this stuff, but it was just easier for me to get it done.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: So true.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I had a person I had promoted uh to a sales manager, and I kept doing my same old thing, right?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: And she she kind of came into my office one day and she's like, Why did you promote me?
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Oh, because you're doing a great job.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: You lead the team, you you know, you have all this initiative.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like she goes, then why are you doing my job?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, point taken.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so whether you know how to do it or not is not the point.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: The point is you have a team, you have to trust your team, you put them in a position to be successful or not.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: And again, if you're not, really, you're not learning.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I learned that my role isn't to know how to do everyone's job, it's to support them.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Hello and welcome to the Elevator Careers Podcast brought to you by the All Red Group.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Matt Allred.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: When talent is mission critical, call the All Red Group.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: With industry expertise, top talent, and exceptional customer service, you need the All-Red Group on your side.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: Your priority is our priority.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: Call now.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: 404-890-0445.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: In this episode, I interviewed Jeff Pugh about his journey from being an elevator apprentice to becoming a vice president.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: We dove into his mindset transition from a worker to a leader, some of the tough decisions involved in maintaining a positive work culture, stepping out of one's comfort zone for personal and team growth, and Jeff's experience with turning around struggling branches.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: Jeff, welcome to the show.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much for having me.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'm excited.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: I uh enjoyed our other conversations.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm looking forward to to getting to know you a little bit better and obviously sharing some of your story with with our listeners.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so you've you've made a journey from apprentice to VP.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: What was it that made the elevator trade stick for you?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh for me originally, it was the pay.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: It was uh it was a good job, it was good pay for not really knowing a lot about elevators.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but as I grew into the position or as I grew into the industry, it's really the niche niche of the industry.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: There's only so many people that can actually do this.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: I love the opportunity that, you know, within a few short years, you were at your full pay potential uh as a mechanic.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: And the technical stuff really intrigued me.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many technological advances with these things, and you know, people really don't understand how these things work.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they push a button, they get in, it takes them where they want to go, but the the mechanics behind it are are extremely um detailed and very interesting to me.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, there then there was lots of lots of places to go.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: I could move up.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and that's what really got me was that.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, how how long before you that kind of clicked inside you when you're like, oh yeah, this is it.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: I would say it was probably uh in my second year um as an apprentice.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: The first year I'd missed the cutoff for the schooling, so it was just on the job training, which was fantastic.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: But then as I got into school uh and you know, it's a short um short year really, you know, from September to kind of May, and it's one week, sorry, one day per week.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I think that's what I was like, this is really neat.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I get to work, I get to learn.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't lose any time off work like they do with electricians and plumbers that have to go to school.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then I got that much more interested in the trade itself as I was building these elevators.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and you mentioned a minute ago just kind of the niche nature nature of the trade and how it grabbed you and and obviously kind of applying the the schooling along with the the on the job.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: What was it about that apprenticeship model or maybe the field time that really shaped your growth the most?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think for me, I I was very fortunate and I got to work with some really, really good mechanics.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they they not only mentored me um on the technical side, but they they really pushed me um, you know, to do better, to to be um a good union guy, but also to be a good company guy.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was it was that that really shaped me and and you know I really wanted to perform.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to perform for them, I wanted to perform for the company.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, there's a thing that elevator guys have, or maybe a lot of people have, but when you're driving through a city and you see all these sky skyscrapers and towers, you're like, oh, I built that one, or I, you know, fixed that one or whatever.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that was it was a it was a proud pride thing for me.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I I'm and I and I'm aware of that.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm having uh done a little bit of roofing in my college days, you know, drive past a house or a a building and hey, you know, I did those shingles, whatever the case may be.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's pretty neat.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: You you mentioned uh, you know, that they kind of pushed you to become better.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: What what specifically did that look like?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because I yeah, I know that can go a lot of different ways, right?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: You you know, depending on who it is and and how they perform, but what do you find?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: What did you find most impactful for you?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think they gave me the opportunity.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: So as you're as you're going through constructing an elevator, there's obviously a whole bunch of different things that go into it.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but they gave me the opportunity where you know we would do one component together and the next one I would do kind of on my own.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: So they really challenged me to learn learn the trade, learn um, you know, how things go.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, they were there to support me, and it was always safe.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: There was nothing ever uh you know unsafe.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it was more just hey, okay, you've seen it once now or seen it twice, let's let's see what you can do.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think that was probably the biggest part of it.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and obviously they're believing in you, right?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: Showing you that that, hey, I've I've demonstrated I I believe you can do this, and here's your chance to to show me and and holler if you get stuck, right?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's one of those things, um, you know, and I I tell this to all the young guys that come in the trade is you know, just keep an open mind, ask questions, be willing to learn.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I coach my son's hockey, and it's all about effort and attitude.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you show up with the right effort and you put in the attitude, uh, the right attitude, and you put in the effort, you're gonna be just fine.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: So you talked about some of your your mentors, you know, certainly as an as an apprentice.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: What other I don't know, mentor influences did you have as you uh continued to move up through the organizations?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I again I I had so many different um positive influences in my life.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you got to start from home.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: I had a really, really good upbringing.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Both my parents worked very, very hard.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they instilled the the work ethic, they instilled, you know, the confidence to to not be afraid to fail.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think that was you know really where where I learned all that.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I wanted what they had.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted the nice house and stuff like that.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I knew they had sacrifices, they they worked, you know, long hours.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, then when I got the opportunity to work with some some of these great mechanics um, you know, that were that were uh very well respected in the industry, uh I just took it and ran with it.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, whether it was one of the old adjusters working on the 1960s, you know, relay logic stuff or you know, the adjuster that was working on the brand new technology, I just all in and and tried to learn as much as I could.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of hungry for you know, just teach me, right?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's I'm sure that's paid off many times over just your desire to learn.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's what it is.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Is just I wanted more.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: I always wanted more.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and of course I failed.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there were there were times where I was, you know, blowing up circuit boards because I, you know, made a mistake.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's it's like anything, you know, we get a new one, you put it back in, and you don't make the same mistake, right?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: You gotta, I mean, if you're anything like me, I'm right, I I I learned by doing the wrong thing.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: I learned to tie my shoes by tripping and landing on my face a few times.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you're not uh if you're not feeling, you're not learning, right?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I think the the bigger picture is not being afraid to fail.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: There's there are so many instances where people were like, I don't want to make a mistake.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you're you're not gonna grow as fast as you're gonna do that.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: You can't learn it.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, so it's okay to take a chance.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, making a mistake is is part of the learning process.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: You can't can't learn otherwise.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so one one thing about you know growing, moving up, you know, is is a lot of people really seem to struggle with moving from doing the work to leading people to do the work.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: And what would you say was maybe the hardest part of that transition for you?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think for me, you know, to to be a leader, to be an effective leader, it's really about connecting.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think what I bring to the table is a little bit different.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't have an MBA education.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've got, you know, um a college background, you know, business management type thing.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I think for me it's I take those experiences that I learned from.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: I had some really good experiences and I apply them to what I do every day.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: I listen, I try and connect with the team, with the individual of the team.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um and for me it's about being consistent, you know.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: I have a saying here, um, we don't accept mediocrity.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to be the best, you can't accept mediocrity.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so I try and instill that good behavior uh into my teams, into the leaders of the branches and to their leaders of the field, you know.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh coming from the field, it gives me a different perspective, you know, than coming up on the sales side of things.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a different connection with the field, you know, we can actually talk the language.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that that helps as well.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: Did you find it challenging to to move into a leadership role or or was it more just kind of a smooth, hey, we're just gonna connect and I'm gonna expect you to, you know, to perform?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it sometimes it can be a lockword because maybe one week your peers, the next week you're the you're the foreman or you're the superintendent, and it's like, oh yeah, I think um, you know, again, it's all it's all for me was all in the experience and all in managing people.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: That was the hardest thing to learn.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: I it wasn't necessarily the job.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um going from you know, the field to the supervisor, I knew what those guys were doing.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I knew the day-to-day stuff.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it was easy to relate to those guys.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Where it was challenging was like you said, going from, hey, we're having lunch today to now I'm your boss.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: That was a little challenging, you know, and you know, I would never make them do anything that I wouldn't do.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I'd expect them to have their lunch and their coffee and whatever else.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think it was about being related, relatable to them and say, hey, listen, guys, we got a job to do.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: How we do it in every building is a little bit different.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I trusted them.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: I trust to do the right thing, you know, and support them.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: Really, that was that's the biggest thing is to support them.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I mean, going from, you know, the supervisor to the vice president was I think I'm answering a different question here, but that was uh the supervisor and district manager was the hardest transition.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: I I worked crazy hours to try and figure this thing out.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: I went from managing, you know, eight or nine mechanics that I understood their job to managing you know 20 people in the office, sales side, you know, operation side, um, trying to understand what a district manager is supposed to do from the numbers.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Different skill set, right?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you're you're going from kind of being you know, able to touch the work to no, you got to be two steps away from it just to just to see what's going on in your office.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, when when as a supervisor, you know, I could jump on a job site with a guy and just get my hands dirty, let's do this.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: When you're when you're a district manager, it's trying to appease so many different people, so many different jobs, so many different things.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: You have the union you have to deal with, you have the operations, the sales, you have you know, my bosses, and and so on and so forth.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, so in some cases, you know, it got to a point where it was just easier for me to do the work.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, for example, like um, you know, if we're doing a sales meeting or whatever, I would go ahead and do all the updates and all that stuff.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: I have a team that was supposed to do this stuff, but it was just easier for me to get it done.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's that true.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I had um I had a person I had promoted uh to a sales manager, and I kept doing my same old thing, right?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And she she kind of came into my office one day and she's like, Why did you promote me?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Oh, because you're doing a great job.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: You delete the team, you you know, you have all this initiative.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: I I I just I appreciate sport, blah, blah.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: She goes, then why are you doing my job?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yeah, point taken.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it went from a mindset change to hey, whether you know how to do it or not is not the point.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: The point is you have a team, you have to trust your team, you put them in the position to be successful or not.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: And again, back to the same concept if you're not feeling, you're not learning.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I learned that my role isn't to know how to do everyone's job, it's to support them, you know.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I always say that you don't always have to have the answer.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but you have to be able to get it for them, you know what I mean?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that was the best explanation from going from a hands-on to a support function, because that's what it is.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's really a like a do-it to a support.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then going from you know, that transition from district manager to vice president was a relatively easy one, very similar to the mechanic to supervisor.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: So now supporting branch managers.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, hey, I did this for eight years.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: I know exactly when they say, Hey, you know, I'm having this challenge, yes, I know exactly the challenge you're having.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then the experience comes in where, hey, this is what I did in the past, it worked really well, or we create new processes or whatever the case is.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and you talked about, you know, having to having to make mistakes, having, you know, that's where experience comes from, right?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: So when when they say, hey, you know, share, share some ideas or hey, I need some help, it's like, yeah, I um I tripped over this one too, right?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: And here's what what eventually worked, and now I have something to share.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: And but again, it's it's you know, at the same time, you know, you you want them to kind of go it on their own a little bit too.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: You want them to come in with a solution.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: You don't just want to say, oh yeah, this is the answer.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, no different than when you're you know you're sitting next to your son doing math and it's like, I know the answer, but you're gonna struggle, you're gonna get it.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just not gonna give you the answer.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, unless of course it has to do with some sort of security or safety and whatnot, and then you know, it's all case by case, but typically it's you know, hey, how are we gonna get through this together?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, as long as it's not, like you say, not dangerous and they're not in in peril, yeah, then then the struggle is is valuable.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: And and so yeah, stepping back, biting your tongue, that can be, I imagine, right, the the hardest thing.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: And and I know even, you know, just and in my small company, right?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes have to just wait and see what they come up with.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes it's so so creative, it's like, oh, I'm glad I didn't say anything because that's better than my idea.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's exactly what it is.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's it gives them confidence, right?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: You're trying to build confidence on them.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, if they come to you with a with a problem, it's right away, it's it's a conversation.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what do you think?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: How how do you think the best way to handle this?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I already have my ideas, but like you said, you're taking away their creativity and their their thought process, right?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's great.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so uh in you know, in a previous conversation, you had shared uh what I thought was a powerful analogy, just that you know, toxic employees are like a cancer, either it spreads or you cut it out.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: And uh to me, that's gotta be one of the hardest things of just becoming a leader.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm curious, how do you assess when it's time to to make those difficult decisions?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I mean, you want to talk about failing.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, I've done this a couple of times.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and my you know, my nature typically is I'm I'm very forgiving and you know, I I wholeheartedly believe in second chances.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I always for me it's um if there's a if there's a big decision to be made, and it could be whether uh regarding an employee, it could be um, you know, a business decision or whatever the case is, you know, there's the hamster wheel is going 100 miles an hour, and you know, if I can't lay my head at night and that thing shut off, then I know it's not the right answer or the right solution.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um so you know, for me, when it comes to toxic or or you know cancerous people, I have let it go too long in in a couple of cases, and what it does really is it just brings down the whole branch, it brings down the whole business because you know, whether you want to, you know, bury your head in the sand, it's happening and everyone sees it's happening.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: And as a leader, if you don't do anything, then you're condoning it.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, for sure.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're responsible for it, essentially.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: You're accepting that behavior.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: So you have these guys, these people that are just killing themselves for you, and then you have this other that aren't, you know.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: So really what happens is you can catch it pretty quickly.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: I can catch it pretty quickly now, but back in the day, it's like, oh my god, I'm gonna have to do their job, or I'm gonna have to do this, or someone else is gonna have to.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: And the ironic thing is when I acted on it, when I was able to sleep at night, um all of a sudden it was it was like spring.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: All the flowers are coming back, um, snow was melting, the dynamic of the branch and the business was fantastic.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: And all of a sudden there's hands out, hey, I got this, or oh, hey, I'll do this.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it created a completely different environment where everyone was there to to support, and it was like I said, it was just like a a huge weight lifted off everyone's shoulders, you know, and that's happened a couple of times, you know, and and when I came out here, uh it was pretty easy to see that there were same same things.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it didn't take long to act and and rebuild the team, you know.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: So how do you go about having some of those conversations?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, let's say you walk into a new region and it's like especially having been through it a couple times, right?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, okay, I can see that you know, maybe there's an issue around so-and-so.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: How do you kind of wade into that to kind of start to assess?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, the I think the important thing is to have conversations because there's there's two sides to every story.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: And we're so we're so quick to jump on one side or another without actually getting all the details.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I I try and I try and assess everything on my own.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: I I sit down, the one-on-ones, you know, hey, what's going really well, what's not going well.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, at this point in my career, it's not hard to look at the numbers and you know get a pretty quick assessment, uh, whether it's compliance, whether it's you know, bottom line dollars, sales, or or whatever the case is, and you, you know, you you kind of target a couple of things, ask some questions, and and then make your assessment from there.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: I always believe, like I said, there's you set the clear expectations.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Here are the expectations.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you get the buy-in.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: Do you agree or disagree?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Or hey, what do you think?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then you go from there.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: And if the expectations aren't met, then you have to move on.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: You said that you uh kind of held on too long a time or two.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: My my question is, what is too long?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: Is it is it more of a feeling of how it's affecting the office, or is it two months?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: Or I'm just curious what what you kind of So it you know what?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's um there's two things.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: One, it's the attitude, the attitude of your of your people.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can tell.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: You can just walk around, you can tell people are just mopey or whatever.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um the telltales for me, sick days, you see people taking more and more sick days, which is a which is a big one.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: You look at where's the performance, is there performance issues?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think that's the the biggest thing is just the the temperature of the of the branch or the business to really identify this.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess to answer my own question a little bit, if if the temperature is is dropping rapidly, the the amount of time may be irrelevant, right?
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you need to act quicker because it's so toxic.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: And and you one more thing I should I meant I failed to mention is is the attrition rates.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: If people are leaving, people typically don't leave jobs, they leave bosses, they leave environments.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: And again, if you have a stagnant boss or leader that doesn't, I say boss, not a leader, because I think those two two titles are completely different.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if if they're not if they're not seeing change and they see the boss accepting the behavior, that's a that's a telltale sign as well.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for digging into that a little bit more because uh yeah, that's insightful.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, kind of back to uh, I guess on a bigger scale, you know, you lead a region that covers a massive geography, uh 400 people.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: What does culture look like at that scale?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it's about consistency, right?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And what I do here in Calgary is what they do in Edmonton, is what they do in Saskatchewan and Winnipeg.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it starts from the top down, right?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: And when I go visit the branches, the first thing we always talk about isn't about the profitability or the big sales.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's about, hey, everyone got home, everyone's getting home.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's all that matters.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: And you build a culture around safety and compliance.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: The rest will follow.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're leading, you know, 300, 400 people, it's making sure that the leaders of those areas are towing the line, right?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: And making sure that we're all in agreement with with how we're going.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: But that's that's the biggest thing.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: And and to be to be relevant, you know, I I have a thing I call the follow-up Fridays.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I will call one or two people that I haven't talked to in a while.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it could be a mechanic in Saskatchewan, which I did last week, um, or it could be you know a sales guy in Winnipeg.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's just a phone call.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's not an email, it's not a text, it's uh yeah, hey, check it in, what's going on?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that you know helps with hey, you know what?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: We all care for each other, um, everyone's listening.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, he took the time to pick up the call and give me a call, you know, and it helps me also get the temperature of the branch what's going well, what's not going well, um, and I get it from the Mechanics point of view, and I also get it from the office point of view.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's the biggest thing.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I try and get out there myself to see everyone, you know, grab coffee with someone.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's really just staying relevant, to be honest with you.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and you and you talked about, you know, when you go visit, you know, you're not just hammering the the financials.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, the financials speak for themselves, right?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: You get the reports, you get the spreadsheets, you have access to their to their system.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: You already know those answers.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: And yet I have been in companies in the past where, you know, let's go hammer those results.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: How do you think that would affect your people differently if two hours into your first meeting, that's all you say, and then it's like, oh, by the way, how are you doing?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it it sets the tone.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: It sets the tone of and and it's clearly demonstrates the priorities.
• 22:46
  unknown: Yeah.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: If your priorities are numbers, well, then it's numbers.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I promise you they're not going to be as good as they could if the priority was the people.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's at the end of the day, the numbers are the numbers, but you need people to to execute, you need people to do the work.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: And if they're engaged and content, then the numbers will come.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's amazing to me how much how much better the numbers are when the people are happy, right?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: When the when the team is cohesive, it's uh it's amazing.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: That some people don't see it that way.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely not.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: And and again, it's it's one of those things where, you know, pick up the phone.
• 23:25
  unknown: Yeah.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: Pick up the phone.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: If someone calls you, pick up the phone.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, uh, I I I take great pride in that.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: My phone's always on, whether, you know, good or bad on vacation, you know, they call, hey, you know, I need to talk to you about something.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because you you can't let that stuff fester, right?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: And you want to be approachable and available.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's huge.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you you also mentioned in the past, uh, you know, one of the leadership principles is that comfort equals stagnation.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: How do you intentionally stretch yourself and and really help your team, you know, push your team or invite your team to do the same?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's kind of what we talked about before, right?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's enabling them to make decisions.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's by doing things that make you uncomfortable, you know, having those tough conversations, uh, whether it be with a customer, whether it be with a fellow employee, a mechanic, whatever the case is, you gotta get out of that comfort zone and and you you have to take a little more risk and do things that you wouldn't normally do.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone knows that if you if you come to me with a problem, you better have a solution or a couple solutions.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there are cases where it's like, I have no idea what to do here.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: But in most cases, it's you get them thinking and I don't need an answer today.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: Go back home, you know, think about it, whatever.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that's the biggest thing is just pushing people out of their comfort zone.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like I understand you're a salesperson, but hey, why don't you go do a site visit, you know, with an operations guy, or or vice versa.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's that's the biggest thing is just push them outside of their comfort zone.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: Well, uh what strikes me there is that you know, comfort zones exist because of fear, right?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh, hey, I'm safe here, I'm not safe over there.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: But what I've heard you say is you've you've made it a safe place for people to get out of their comfort zone and an expectation that that not only are you gonna get out, but you're gonna be okay, right?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: You're not the world's not gonna fall, you're not gonna, you know, you're not gonna die.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: Let's let's challenge you to get beyond what you're comfortable with, yeah, and you're gonna learn something.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, it's it's it's like every experience, right?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Be comfortable with being uncomfortable.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: When yeah, and you know, when you have all these different experiences and you're like, wow, that's a that's a good one.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really not too sure how to deal with that right now.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you write it down, you think about it, whatever, and you know that's that's the biggest thing is just being be comfortable being uncomfortable.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I and I think that if you allow the comfort zone to constrain you, it only goes one direction.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's to continue to shrink versus pushing beyond it, continually pushing beyond it.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna you're gonna grow it, right?
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna have a bigger, bigger comfort zone, bigger influence, bigger ability to to make a change.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: And it reminds me, you know, when you and I had talked before, you talked about taking over Ottawa and later Calgary and how change happened fast.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm talking about uh discomfort and comfort zones.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what what do you believe are the essential steps to turning around a struggling branch?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm sure a lot of it was outside your comfort zone.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, absolutely.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Ottawa was different because born and raised, um, I knew a lot of the people really well.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, the mechanics I knew very well.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it was a little bit different because there's a lot more personal ties.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was pushing myself uh as a district manager to form different relationships with everyone.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, as a leader, now not a friend, you know, and you know, that line, it was very difficult in Ottawa to get across.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and it took me longer than it did, let's say, in Calgary, but it that was the biggest thing was to understand, hey, listen, yes, we're so cordial, we're still, you know, acquaintances or whatever you want to, you know, the barbecues and all that stuff, that's gotta stop, you know, because it's gotta be equal.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: If they see a leader, a district manager went out for dinner with the same guys, it's it's a perception, right?
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, when I came to Calgary, I knew I knew some of the people already because of diff different meetings and and whatnot.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: And they they knew who I was.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I mean, I've been here 24 years, so I'm uh a fossil guy out.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: But uh so when I came here, it was, like I said, relatively easy to get in there, meet some people, coffees, what's good, what's not good.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the numbers were not great uh at the time.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: We had a couple of jobs that were not going well, you know, and then shortly thereafter we had a uh you know, good person leave, and it was pretty evident, pretty clear that there's had to be some some changes here.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if you uh start to see a good person step away, you know, it sounds like you were at least keyed into okay, this uh something's got to change because we can't afford that.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: There was dynamics here that just weren't great.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, good people, really good people, smart people that cared, but the dynamic was not good.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it was okay, this has to stop.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I came here later in the years and compliance was an issue.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, at the time I was told, hey, listen, you don't understand the Western way, everything's fine.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, okay, yeah, I'm I've been here five minutes, sure.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: No, you know, no problem.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: I look forward to learning the Western way.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then I just said next year, we're not gonna be in the same position.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because if we're not compliant next year, well then this is a problem for me.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: We were not compliant again.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so I was like, and I, you know, again, coached the whole way through, come up with a game plan, processes.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: So following year, made the change, made some moves, uh, rebuilt the team.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: People here that were just dying to flourish, you know, but they were being held back and and stagnant.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'll recite one of my favorite books there is Good to Great.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm driving the bus and I put the the right people in the right seats.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, some had to go to the back of the bus, some moved to the front of the bus.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: Some had to get off the bus, probably.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: And there was a couple that actually, yeah, they had to they had to get off.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was their stop.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and and it sounds like having the right people in the right seats and and the right people on the bus is is really critical to everything we're talking about, from leadership to performance to to making change.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you don't have that, you get nothing, right?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: You're trying to swim upstream and and losing ground.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 29:33
  unknown: Yeah.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: You have no chance.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: You really have no chance.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the business will run, but it was, you know, people get hurt.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: That that really bothered me.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I I again I come from the field, I come from that background, and there's no reason for it.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's no excuses.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: I I believe that while incidents are not 100% preventable, you cannot prevent every incident.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: There's accidents, they're pulled accidents for a reason, but I believe you can prevent an injury.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: If you take the right steps, do the right planning, making sure you're not in the line of fire, you will be fine.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: And we've proven this, you know, we've proven this time and time again.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: And even some mechanics, they they had to get off the bus too because they didn't they just chose to work unsafe.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that I mean when you choose to do that, I have a problem with it, you know.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I always argued that people are like, oh, I don't have time to do this, or I have time to that.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like you make the time, and I promise you, you plan your work and you work your plan, not only will it be safer and more compliant, we're gonna do better profit-wise.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: And sure now now we're one of the fastest growing, you know, year-over-year regions.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh profitability.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: You've uh been two years now, incident-free, recordable free.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone's happy, and you know, the the company's moving in a direction at a very, very rapid pace, and the team is engaged and we're getting there.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's almost like they couldn't couldn't see it, right?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: Just believing that it's kind of a limiting belief, like, oh, I don't have time to be safe.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, but if you start by prioritizing that, you'll find out that, hey, not only do you have time, you have less less downtime, you didn't you don't hurt anybody or yourself, or you know, and and then the time magically shows up.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: It it it does.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, again, I I always use the analogy of people at home, right?
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: You're going to mount a TV on the wall and bring the TV down, and you know, you don't read the instructions, you don't need to do that.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you go upstairs and you grab a couple of things, you're like, oh, I forgot this, go back upstairs.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I forgot that, go back up.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, now you're making now you're making like five or six trips.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: When when had you when you unloaded the TV, had you looked at everything you needed, you would have grabbed everything you needed, and it would have been one step.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as it relates to safety, it it becomes a little bit more compounded because what if you forgot your harness?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, oh, I'm just gonna hop on this car real quick.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's when accidents happen, right?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we have um and it's it's every it's everyday life, truthfully, uh, where we have this, you know, we diminish it, we diminish the risks, right?
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's one of our one of our big things here where we've done this so many times that we don't even recognize the hazard.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, how I how I explain that is there's times where we have to get other trades on top of the elevator to check sensors at the top of the hoistway.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Mechanic gets on there, we do our thing, you get the electrician on there, whoever, they're like, oh my god, you guys ride on these things, you know, and they're kind of wow, this is crazy.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: But for us, it's just it's like eating a lunch, no problem.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's just walking a tight rope and hey, we do it every day.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: But to your point, I mean, in a fraction of a second, that could all change, right?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: With one little misstep, one little, you know, like I say, forget the harness, you, you know, whatever.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: And it's unforgiving.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: Well, um, Jeff, I got one more question for you, and I appreciate you being with me.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: And and uh, you know, this has been a lot of fun.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: The uh the final question, you know, as you look back across your career from handling tools, overseeing hundreds of people, what's one lesson you hope that the next generation of leaders hears loud and clear?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think for me, if I had one, I would say don't be afraid to ask for help.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be afraid to ask.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: I struggled with that a lot, you know, as I as an early manager, where I was afraid to ask for help because I didn't want people to think that I didn't know what I was doing.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: When the reality of that, I just created more stress for myself and my family and everything else, right?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, working 14, 16, 18-hour days to try and get through when I could have asked someone, hey, what do you think about this?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Or hey, do you know about this?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and it would have saved me so much time and and anxiety and everything else.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: When I relate that back to my mechanic days, where you're on a job site trying to fix something, and you're like, well, someone else has must must have faced this, right?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you and you and you call someone and they're like, oh yeah, it's it's this.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I just saved myself two or three hours.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: I saved a company two or three hours.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't have to bang my head against the controller.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I could move on.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that would be the biggest thing, you know.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be afraid to ask.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: Let me ask you just a little bit more on that.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: So as a leader, like you said, I'm afraid they won't, you know, think that I know what I'm doing.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: Is it people on your team?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: Is it higher-ups?
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: What was the hardest group of people to ask?
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when I first started as a district manager, I was really afraid about what people would think of me if I didn't have all the answers.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: I felt at the time that I needed to know everything right away.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: I really didn't.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, truthfully, all it did was, you know, I get created more problems for myself, stress-wise, and everything else.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I took away the power for my people, my teammates.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I I know how I feel when you know I have a you know, executive call me and say, hey, Jeff, um, hey, how would you handle this situation or how would you handle this problem?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: You instantly get that feel of, oh my god, they they need me, they they want, you know, and you feel inclusive, right?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's that's what I took away from my team initially.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: And now it's it's the exact opposite.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Now I I I really push people, like I said, out of their comfort zone.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: And hey, what do you think?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: How do you handle this?
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's really what it was.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: I was a it was a total perception thing.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was not even ego, it was more just I didn't want them to think that I didn't know what I was doing.
• 35:23
  unknown: Yeah.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: When the reality I really didn't know what I was doing when I first took it over.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: Didn't want them to see in the truth, right?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's it was so true.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's awesome.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for for being with me today and and sharing your insights uh over your your career.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's been a lot of fun.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I appreciate the time and the opportunity.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for listening to the Elevator Careers Podcast, sponsored by the Allred Group, a leader in elevator industry recruiting.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: Please visit our YouTube channel at Elevator Careers or check us out online at elevatorcareers.net.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: Please like and subscribe.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: And until next time, stay safe.