Latest / WOC and Allies: Business and Career Realtalk with Elaine Lou Cartas / 127: 2026 Marketing Trends: Why My ‘Losing’ Pitch Still Drove Sales (with Monica Schrock)

Transcript

127: 2026 Marketing Trends: Why My ‘Losing’ Pitch Still Drove Sales (with Monica Schrock) · WOC and Allies: Business and Career Realtalk with Elaine Lou Cartas

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Happy New Year.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited for you to listen to this episode.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: It is one of my most listened to podcast episodes.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: It is on the 2026 trends.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're like, Elaine, why should I listen to it?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let me drop some stats that has happened in my business.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Despite 2025 being very difficult for fellow business owners, it's been great for me.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: I looked at my stats on Spotify.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast itself, my audience has grown by 996%.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it is one of the most shared podcast shows.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I know you're gonna like this episode, so you're gonna want to share it with a friend or two.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Second, just so you know what good email open rates are.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: That means you're opening the email to read it.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's 20%.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: This last year 70 to 75%.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: A good click rate.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Clicking on hyperlinks.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: One to two percent is good.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Mine?
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Nine to ten percent.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like Elaine, you don't even have a big following.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have a big podcast production because I'm not focused on doing the most.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: My goal is to work with 15 clients at one time because I care about client results and experiences.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: This is why I have 300 plus client reviews that you could check out on my website at elanelew.com forward slash testimonials.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: So in this episode, I am joined by my former client, my friend.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: I've also hired them, Monica Schock, who's a marketing expert.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: And this isn't just talking about trends we predict for the year.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: We also give you actionable steps.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: So you're gonna want to take notes, you're probably gonna want to pause, or you're probably gonna want to listen to this again if you're driving right now.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: So grab your coffee, tea, andor boba, and let's drop the beat.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone play sports?
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: I want to hear it out loud.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: What did you play when you were a kid?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: So just like you going to a stadium to a field, I was in a rain.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: I knew my transfer, I know how to pivot, I knew how to block.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know a tie for 25 years.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's exactly like communications and conversations.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Elaine Cartes.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a business and executive coach.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: But my favorite title, oldest daughter of a Filipino immigrant farmer.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, please give a round of applause.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: I have to worry how to communicate between my family and their country to disview culture.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I founded Conscious Conversations to help small business owners, companies, and teams with their people so they improve their process and profit.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: I have online courses with USC, Brown, Duke, John Hopkins, and I have worked with Fortune 500 executives like Coca-Cola, Visa.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want to learn how to improve your people and process it, have a conscious conversation, then come talk to me, goddylene.com, and don't worry, I won't punch you.
• 3:12
  unknown: Okay.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to one of our popular episodes.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Back at it.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 2026 marking predictions.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to start it.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: I want to start this podcast um a little different.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: A replay on a pitch where I did not win, but I did those calls from.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: We just watched it, by the way.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we just did the replay, but I thought that was a great start to let's talk about trends for 2026.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, who's Monica?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, who are you?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_03: I know it's been a while, um, but I'm back.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know if we did 2025 trends.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_03: I want to say we maybe did.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we did.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_03: I sent you the email.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Clearly, Monica's not reading it, but and clearly this is not written by AI because AI would have been like, and we read 2025 predictions.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: By script.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_03: No, no script here.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um yes, hello everyone.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Monica Schrock.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: I'm um a marketing automation and email marketing specialist.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I've been doing marketing for geez, um, almost 20 years.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, went to school for it back in the day, graduated into the 2008 Christmas.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I've been learning.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: So uh yeah, I'm here with some experience from working for nonprofits um in many sectors, environmental justice, cancer prevention, um, working at the Portland Trailblazers, um, working with clients from small businesses to uh large organizations.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm here to talk about some marketing trends with Elaine, which is one of my favorite things to do every single year.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: And Monica is a former client, and I am a former client of theirs too.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: And more importantly, we are friends.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_03: More importantly, most importantly.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: So let's get straight to it because we just heard the replay of the pitch.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um but it's also a great start.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_03: Really good, by the way.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's talk about that.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, a little like claps to how hard it is to pitch yourself and one minute and 14 seconds is impressive.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I also I can see why you got sales spells from that, even though you didn't win.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know what?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I've been, I'm a psychic, but one of the first trends we want to talk about is personal branding.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: I just did a LinkedIn post on this.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_03: Did you see it?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, I did it like a week ago.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you calling me out that I'm not a good friend of yours?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: I would never really be doing a 30 like that.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, why would you not show it?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: Here we are, still years later, not seeing the things that we want to see from our friends.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay, here.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: I I found it.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I mean, similar to that post than this, you know, it's interesting.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna just give you context.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: This is the last day of a conference for women-owned businesses.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: It is 10 in the morning, people are over it, and I'm in a room full of women.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll just be honest, everyone was like ready for like the sob story.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh my gosh.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: I was I'm serious.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I knew what was gonna happen.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, how can I wake these people up?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, let me go into sports.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like you would think I would do like male energy, like I wouldn't do male energy.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, no, no one's gonna do male energy right now.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Let me let me do sports right now.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it captivated people.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, sports is not male energy.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, by the way.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Monica wasn't correcting me.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: I just I'm just saying, I know that one.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, no.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_03: You just unfortunately stereotype listening that sports, although stereotypically, like you said, male energy, are not male energy, which is why you did it.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: And personal and talk about personal branding.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've seen my stats like boy Thai, Thai kickboxing has the most watches on my Instagram.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: People don't care about my business stuff.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like business, business continues to roll on.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_03: We have to do it, but it's all the other stuff that's more exciting.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's like who's this bad beat?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, I'll be honest, there's this subconscious bias.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why would an Asian woman do martial arts?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, because I was bullied.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's why.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: But, anyways, let's talk about your post.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Why is personal branding so important in this world of AI?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, it's AI, and it's just I've seen so many people put their identity into the company they're working for instead of separating their identity from the name, the brand of the company.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like you need your own brand outside of that, because what did I say in this post?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just gonna look.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, it's let's see.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll put the post in the show notes too.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: So if you because here's the problem with it if you end up leaving the company, if the company ends up letting you go, um, which by the way, I saw a video yesterday that America's the only, and don't quote me, but the video said America's the only country where it's not illegal to just lay people off to have higher profits.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_03: So since we live here, and that's a possibility, right?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: And if you spend years giving yourself to this company, I see it happen in my backyard a lot.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_03: Nike, Adidas, like these are huge companies that have had huge layoffs, especially Nike.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and people put a lot of themselves into this work, and it's like a big deal to work for these companies, right?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_03: But then you leave or you're laid off or whatever happens, and then it feels like you're starting from scratch because your whole identity, your whole working identity was working for this company.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe you don't even get to share the projects you did.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe you can't even do that, which is sometimes the case, right?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like you can't always be like, I did this thing at this company.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's not like a portfolio that follows you necessarily.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes it is, but your name should carry weight when that logo isn't behind it.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what personal branding is really about.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_03: That logo doesn't need to be attached to your name for your name to carry weight in rooms that you're not in, you know?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_03: So that's that's a big thing for me.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: I loved what you said in the rooms that you're not in.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: I will also say personal branding is what do people say about you when you're not in the room?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: And what you're known for.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: And this doesn't mean being an influencer.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like I think a lot of people get those things like it, and it can, but I think a lot of people are like, I don't want to be an influencer.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_03: Having a personal brand is not being an influencer.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like they are not mutually exclusive.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_03: They can be the same thing, but they're not.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_03: And like you said, it's like making sure that your voice, your values, your track record carry weight wherever you go, even if you're not in the room.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think so.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: What I've noticed this past year, I feel like I mean, these are just facts.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not trying to brag about myself, but I feel like I've exploded my thought leadership with my I know I'm bragging.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Conscious conversations.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I say that because I've really just have owned like this is what I've seen and observed.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: These are frameworks I've noticed, this is what's working.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, in terms of my personal brand, it's like conscious conversations and communications.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, how did I integrate sports and doing Muay Thai and showing I'm boxing on stage?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Because it's I knew that if I leaned into the human element, the soft skills, it's gonna make me stand apart, especially in this world of AI and automation.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: And you know from knowing me that my personal brand has always been the same.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's for those that visually can't see, there is a basketball planner with leaves on it.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: I hear a big plan coming out of the case.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: Also kind of inappropriate.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the Michael Jordan poster just shows his legs, not him shooting in the hoops, Monica.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of inappropriate.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: No, but that, you know, coffee and comics has always been a big thing for me.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, a little more like introverted, but sports, basketball, sports is a huge thing for me.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I did work for the Portland Trailblazers, which was an amazing, I'll brag, an amazing accomplishment for me to be hired without knowing anyone there and applying on LinkedIn for a marketing position.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: But even though now, after leaving and going full freelance again, my clients don't have anything to do with sports.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: I do have a podcast called Play Like a They about, you know, queer non-binary people in sports.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Plug if you're interested.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, hey, hey, we're in a different podcast, run a different podcast, focus.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: My personal brand.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: But my clients are nonprofits and like in like local government departments that it has nothing to do with sports.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I actually wanna so I just did a talk at California Water Association on communication and public speaking.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason why is because they're talking to so much stakeholders, right?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: They are procurement staffers, talking to small business owners as well as colleagues.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it is the communication, the storytelling, the data, similar to Monica.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: I have a background in nonprofits as a fundraiser.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um y'all, like people don't know what they're doing when it comes to marketing.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: So even a little, a little one thing you do from this podcast episode will change the game for you as we talk about sports.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, I do want to ask when it comes to personal branding, what is one thing you do suggest people do?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Think about brainstorm.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, we talked about this before where it's like, you know, when people sometimes think that you have to share like everything online.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_03: And honestly, you don't even need an Instagram to have a personal brand.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: Your personal brand is very much like, for me, it's very much rooted in like values and like what kind of like makes me happy.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: So when people, when I am like, ooh, comics, I love coffee, I love basketball, and people know that's what makes me happy, and that's what they think about.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_03: I have so many people that like send me something about comics, send me something about basketball, and like those relationships form with no real goal in mind.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: They just form organically and naturally.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the thing we've always talked about with relationships, you know, if we want to correlate it to business, is these things happen naturally because people are like, oh, I'm liking the values, you know, how you work, how you communicate with people.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's easy for me to have a conversation with you, to work with you.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: I can tell, you know, if we've had a conversation about what I do that I know what I'm that I know what I'm doing.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like these things are not like mutually exclusive.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like how you work and who you are, and getting clients um and getting jobs are absolutely connected, you know?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, me doing the pitch with Muay Thai, which I had no idea by the way in the beginning.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Someone comes up to me and I have a meeting with him.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, My son does Muay Thai.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, very cool.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I exactly I want my team to hire you to do executive coaching.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then we found out we live three blocks away from each other, so we're meeting up like in a couple weeks.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's who you are.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: And also, I feel like we're so old now, but like pre-COVID, this we are.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: I know, stop.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: But one of the best advice I've gotten.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh you, me for sure.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, you're definitely older than me by like a year or two.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: But one of the best advices I did get, I feel like this is more of a pitch to love sports, which you should.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one of the best advices I got from a former boss of mine, she was like, Elaine, just just pick a team.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't matter what team, it doesn't matter.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: It will be easy conversations with people.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, it is, yeah.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I will say, like, you know.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_03: So Dodgers, Dodgers, yeah, there you go.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_03: Dodgers.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_03: Lakers, even their Monica Hayes.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: I've never hated the Lakers, but you're from LA.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: So you're you're in it.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like you're in.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's the like, you know, Monica, watch my audience.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: Los Angeles is one of my top cities listening.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, watch your mouth.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Watch your mouth.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: That's where you're from.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_03: Do I want to see a championship ever again from the Lakers or the Celtics?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Let's change topics, Monica.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: This is not respectful.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: You're at my home.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm disrespectful.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm disrespecting you enough.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: But I will say, like, to that, like, I'm passionate about like sports and like non-binary um trans people in sports and like women's sports specifically.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: I go to tons of games.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_03: I travel for it.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to Unrivaled in Miami at the beginning of January.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I love women's sports or sports in general.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I have play like a day, my podcast, as the banner on my LinkedIn.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_03: And it's something I lead with.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: Even though, to be honest, y'all, I'm not super consistent with it.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like Sarah and I put out an episode maybe like once a month.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_03: But like we we like when things come up that we want to talk about it, we talk about it and we put it up there.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: And like so many times I've had people be like, Oh, I thought of your podcast when I was talking to my friend because they're really interested in this, and they introduce me, and then that turns into something, whether it's a friend or a work relationship or whatever.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_03: So it's just like leading with a little bit of your interest um goes a long way.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I will say with like even applying to jobs, like obviously being a freelancer, a personal brand is very important.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like, because that's like I I need people to to find me, connect with me, like, you know, you know, find that that conversation starter, like you're saying.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_03: But even with I think people are afraid to leave with their personal brand when they're applying for jobs.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I will say, for me, like I've always put a lot of personality in my cover letters and my resumes.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_03: I've like, you know, gave myself a summary, I've led with some personal details, things like that, even like made a little like what you know, landing page where people can go and learn more about me.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like, there is nothing wrong with leading with your personal brand and personality.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: And another thing that happens if you're trying to get a job in that way, if it signals to you if that company is going to have a problem with you having with who you are, like who you are as an individual.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_03: And if they're gonna try to just get you to, you know, kind of like suppress that to be one of their guests.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: I will say um I sent a proposal and so for a company, and they're like, just put a Google Doc.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: This is not me.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna do Canva.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna put my colors up there and pictures and videos.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I put I put a personalized video.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: And at first they rejected me because I was too expensive, but then for another RFP, and then I send the one in Canva with my personality and who I am.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, oh, we're going to hire, yeah, because I put who I am.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: And also, if people think I'm too much, I ain't the right person for you.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, exactly.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: We talked about this because I'm also too much.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: This is why we friends.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Why we friends.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's why we're friends.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: We've been talking a lot about personal brands.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: So action item from that is like what makes, you know, what do you love doing?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Lead with that as an interest.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: Something that you're excited to talk about.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have to be super vulnerable.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not about people like, you know, being it's not some, it shouldn't be something that you, in my opinion, let me know what you think, Elaine.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_03: It shouldn't be something that you feel like necessarily that you're getting out of your comfort zone sharing.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like this thing should be in your comfort zone.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, Monica has um shared this with me and my other clients too.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: One exercise you should do.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't want to share everything.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Just like you have like a list of things that you want to share, have a list of things you do not want to share.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: These are things I will not share.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: These are hard stops.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like I have friends who are mothers who are like, I am not going to share pictures of my kids.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And like, that's great.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is something that you should honor.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Or I'm not going to share this very I mean, I have stuff to say about that.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not going to share this very traumatic experience.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people share their traumatic experiences to sell, which is kind of it is bothersome to me.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like kind of that's fair.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: That's fair.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: And if you don't want to talk about, like you're like, I don't want to talk about my health or whatever.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_03: I just want to talk about sports, or I want to talk about, you know, that I like this mystery books, whatever, like whatever it is that you like.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's more, it's like a pros and cons list.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_03: Do a, you know, green light, red light on what you want to like share with people and incorporate the green lights into your conversations, even within your career business.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I want to go to a second trend that I've noticed.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it's how you are with other people.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: I can't believe that would be a marketing trend, but we'd be living in a post-2020 world, digital, yeah, like, and I mean, it was trending, the Gen Z stare, right?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: How do we interact?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: I am so like removed from this.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even know.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I've seen the videos, but I'm just like, it's because you make your own coffee.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: So the trend.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_03: I know, and I do I do go get coffee.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: I work at two coffee shops in Vancouver, Washington, where I live, and there are Gen Z people working there.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know, I guess they're just not giving the stare.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_03: But I have I have seen videos, but I will say, okay, it's how you are with people.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_03: Here we are.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_03: So like I don't find that to be an obstacle.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm Monica's an introvert.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_03: I also want to say that.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and that might not sound like I'm an older millennial, I'm 39.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, you know, like a 19-year-old could be my my child.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_03: So let's just get that out of the way.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: But like, I'm gonna come in to this coffee shop if we just want to use this as an example, even though I haven't really experienced it.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm gonna come in and maybe this is why I haven't experienced it.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: Who knows?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm gonna come in, I'm going to be myself regardless.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not afraid to show, like, I'm not afraid to talk to this parista, no matter what, like where they're at in their workday.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: But I've also worked in customer service.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_03: So if someone's giving me a little less than I've experienced in other places, like customers, you know, like personality-wise, like to me, I go straight to, well, maybe they're not having the best day, but also they don't owe me anything anyway.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_03: But like, for me, I'm just like, I'm gonna be who I am with anyone, and whatever they're giving me back is totally fine.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: It has no reflection on me because I'm gonna keep being how I am with people regardless.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_03: That part.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's like being unattached to it.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I will, I will be honest when I did my pitch, right?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: That we heard earlier.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I know these are all women.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: I should lean into like my sad sob story.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so I'm not tired.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I'm not, yeah, sorry.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't mean to like make fun of that, but I just knew people are gonna lean into it.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what makes me different and unique?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Let me do Muay Thai.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: But it also shies away from the fact that like we don't have to have that to, you know, be like in our power or like move forward or like this doesn't, you know what I mean?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like there doesn't, we don't have to have it and we don't have to share it.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: No, just honor it one.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but like how you are with other people, and we've talked about this.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: If you go to my website, yes, I'm doing a plug on my website, ElaineLou.com.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, we put a lot of work into our websites.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but there are pictures and videos of me interacting.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Acting, not AI generated.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And the feedback I get from people who want to work with me, I'm like, I ask, why do you want to work with me?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you want to schedule a call to see how it looks like to work with me?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: It was like your energy.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: I get that a lot too.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: One energy, but two, I back it up.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, 300 plus client reviews.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: You could check it out at elanelew.com slash testimonials.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if I told you, but so I I MC'd for this HR retail conference.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I had to do that.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: Which was great.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like major was there, um, Signet Health.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: We got Skims, Journeys, Paxson, a lot of big companies.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: Come back for the dreams and the world.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: One guy comes up to me and he's like, so, and I read his energy.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, so how'd you get this gig?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how did you MC and speak for two panels?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I knew exactly what he meant.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh, you thought I got this because of my personality.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, yeah.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Or because of what I look like or look at.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was like, you thought this because of my energy and personality.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh, and actually, my website has 300 plus client reviews.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I get hired.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, people come, yes, attracted to my personality and energy, but it's backed up by the results.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's about both.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I think, you know, there is a certain time if you don't have all that backup to lead with confidence.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_03: So beat you up.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: Beat you up.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: So lead with confidence.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_03: Some people call it fake and fake until you make it.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: And in the beginning, you sometimes have to.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_03: You have to lead with confidence and talk that you know how to do the thing that you are starting to do.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_03: And then you get little projects here and there, and then you're you have that backup, right?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: But like when you have it, it's like, I don't need to prove to you why I'm here.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love it.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Don't you love when people underestimate me, underestimate you?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then they're like, wait, how'd you get that contract?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: How do you know that person?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, because I'm Oh, yeah.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: I never talk about what I do.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_03: I never talk about really what I do, or not never, but not a lot.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_03: And then when I do, people are like, oh.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, yeah.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: I know you just see me loving basketball and all these things, but yeah.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: After my pitch, because I was like name dropping like leaders I've been working with, they're like, How'd you get the contract?
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I didn't know you were a big deal.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, yeah.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I don't have to talk about it.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't need to.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I I think people should work with me because they won once.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: And if it's not a good fit, that's fine.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: But in terms of how there's nothing wrong with talking about it.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: I just want to say, like, talk about it, brag about it.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: For me, what do men do all the time?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: What do men do all the time?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: We're not telling women not to do that for sure.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I would say that I like that I'm being talked up by people like when I'm not there.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: And like I don't have to talk about it because people are referring me to people, and that's how I get work.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's 100% how I get work.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_03: 100%.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't get leads on my website.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_03: I don't get like I don't put any time into that.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's a hundred percent how I get new clients, and work is fully referrals from past clients and intros, you know, from people who just know me.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Just be really good at your work.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: And if you want to know, these are two questions I've learned that especially this time of year, end of year, well, this is gonna be coming out beginning of the year.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because it's the beginning of the year, people have that energy.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of asking people, what do you do?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's like, what do you do?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because that helps you decide if you're gonna talk to them or not, ask them, hey, what's something exciting you're working on?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a good one.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Or what's your goal for the year?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that helps you have a conversation.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_03: So it's not all of like what's something exciting you're working on, working on.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's a good one.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because that could also be personal.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: It could also be like I'm working on my dribble or my free throw, you know?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm getting my three point percentage up.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, what?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: I do want to know, Monica, what's what's something exciting you're working on for 2026?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_03: Something exciting I'm working on.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, well we're doing personal.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we're well, we're doing a little bit more.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_03: We're dabbling in some blogging for play like a day.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_03: So Sarah and I are going to Unrivaled, which is a three-on-three league created by two WNBA players.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_03: This is the second season, very exciting.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_03: We're going to Miami.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and we got these, we got some microphones, so we're gonna like dabble in that.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm a little bit excited because, like, you know, this is something we're super passionate about.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: So we're gonna like put a little bit more into it, and I think that's that's gonna be really cool.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's exciting.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, getting in front of the cameras is a little different for me though.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I've done it, but not in a long time.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: So it'll be challenging.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_03: It'll be challenging too, but it'll be good.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's a big era for sports coming up, you know.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: We especially here in LA, we have the All-Stars.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: Olympics.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, World Cup.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: NBA All-Star.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, NBA All-Stars.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then World Cup, Olympics, and then Super Bowl again here in LA.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: So all right.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like we gotta talk about what everyone wants to talk about.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: Drop it like it's hot.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_03: AI.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: What a year.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: What a year for air for AI in many, in many facets.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think a lot of times when we say it, people think ChatGPT or Gemini or that five, um, which is the main event.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: For now, by the way, for now.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like it will shift and change.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you all remember AOL email?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's gone.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: Well, there's also, you know, there's AIs within CRMs, within marketing um programs.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: There have been for a long time, but now they're just a lot more like in your face.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I will say, like, you know, I'll, it's so interesting because I'll write an email from scratch with no help from AI.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_03: I'll put it into MailChimp, like clients who have a MailChimp, I'll put it in there.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_03: And even like before I send it, it'll just be like, you know, this part of this is generated by AI, even though none of it was.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_03: So we're in a very interesting like time of just like blanketing everything as AI has touched it.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_03: Which I'm like not super like I would say I'm not super happy about, even because even when it isn't, like I've had friends be in school where their their professors have accused them of that, and they're like, I did not use AI to write this.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_03: And AI has adapted like the whole thing is it's a learning machine.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's adopted language that we use in writing.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: So it's this very interesting thing.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like I saw this thing where it's like, you know, not using MRN dashes or whatever because AI uses them, and and it was like a quote from Office Face that was like, Why should I stop using it?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_03: He's the one that sucks.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, yeah, it's it's an interesting thing.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: And then it's something where it's like, yeah, it's here for now.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like you said, like, you know, who knows?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_03: But it's like you can't really treat it like it might be gone because then it's like if it's not, you're kind of in a pickle.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you're you're in a pickle.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, a lot of trending, a lot of trending things are saying like everything like copy and pasted for AI is gonna be out in 2026.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I think it was already out in 2025.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think that was everything.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean like it's like I feel like when I'm in people's emails, people we even know, and I read them like this is so written by AI.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I am not interested.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Something I want to brag about with like my emails that I've been working on with Monica.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: So just so you know, 20% open rate and a one to two percent click rate.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Open rate is when you open the email click reads when you click on the link for an email.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: Those are good.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's like good.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Last year I was at 60% open rate.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: Where did you start at when we started working together, by the way?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: 20, 20%.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: No, was it?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_03: No, it was like lower.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, hey.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Some of your emails have like eight.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: Stop, stop.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_03: Don't that's old me.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_03: That's old me.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: I know, but you need to give me credit for what I did.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_03: I remember asking for credit, right?
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: I am.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Did I not say we?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_03: Did I not say like I want people to see how big this increase is because when did we start working on it?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like maybe 2021.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: It was 2021.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it was okay, fine, 10%.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then I hired Monica.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and and what is it now?
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's crazy.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_03: 75%.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: 10%.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: And that is not just attributed, and I'm seeing nine to 10% click rate.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it was 1% last year.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and we were trying to get it up.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: We were spending so much time get trying to get it up.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um sorry, that sounds so wrong.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: It does.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_03: My mind's dirty.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_03: I realized that like immediately.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_03: Immediately, but we did get it up.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um but like those numbers are astronomical.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think this will help.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna give you guys the top subject lines and open lines.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: So my scuba diving panic attack, when tired of being tired, before you bring it all down, try this, and then having a mid-career in life crisis.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: And what I've gotten from that, what's interesting, is people don't want experts.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: They want real humans.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: They want, like, I'm giving stories of like I had a panic attack learning how to do scuba diving, but then I also related like, and this is how it relates to the city.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: That seems pretty normal.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, a panic attack trying to scuba dive.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: I've like thought about like dying.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: I almost killed, I almost killed Elber, by the way.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not joking.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: I took out, I forgot what it is for the freaking out.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, and then I moved it out of his mouth.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then thankfully our instructor was there.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: He's he's alive.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't not do this purposely.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: He's fine, everybody.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, but anyways, storytelling is more important because uh AI doesn't go, doesn't have a personal life.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I will say too, just to like back up the email stuff, it it we did do a lot of work, like audience work, like who who would in, you know, who is in your audience, who's content.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, taking people off your list who have not opened in a year.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like email marketing is a very like there is, you know, there is story behind it, but it's very much interpreting analytics and not being afraid to remove people from your list that are not engaging.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like the numbers are this.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: The numbers are not, I have 20,000 people on your list.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_03: If Elaine has 4,000 and is getting these numbers, it's much more valuable to any company, you know, than than that.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: So that's something to think about too, is like I from one of my clients, I just removed, like, it's now been maybe eight months since I joined one of my clients, and um they were emailing about 30,000 people and had a lot of cold contacts in another system that they moved over, so everything tanked.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, open rates, click rates, everything tanked.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: So I went in there and was like warming people up, doing re-engagement strategies.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: And then after a few months of those things, whoever had not opened the last 50 campaigns, I was like, you're out.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: Delete.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_03: Delete.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: So we went from emailing about 30,000 people to almost 70 because we were adding people from their other systems, but we were in re-engaging and warming people up and doing, you know, different strategies.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_03: So there is a lot of strategy.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_03: I I like I can't downplay how much strategy goes into email marketing.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's not just like write an email and hit send.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_03: There is a lot of like interpretation and analytics in it, which is so exciting to me.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_03: Elaine knows I love it.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_03: But this transformation is not something you see every day.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I it's interesting when I was looking even at the click rates.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: The hey, schedule a call of me doesn't work.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, the one that had the most clicks, it was like 10.6% was yeah, so I stopped drinking for nine months, listened to this episode.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: That yeah, it was like, okay, what's a thing that I've undergone that, okay, they want to read?
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: As opposed to like really salesy, because uh I'm just saying that I get a lot of emails because I am a student.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: I love seeing what other people are doing.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then I open it, and then what ends up happening majority of the time, which I'm sure you feel, is like this is AI.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: What the fuck?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna stop reading this.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I am I try to be discerning too, because I know that a lot of times AI sounds like advocacy writing.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: AI sounds like certain advocacy writing is something that people flag for like AI more than anything else, and that is what advocacy writing has sounded like for years, decades.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_03: And then people are like, this is AI.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's not.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_03: This is how people have been writing for nonprofits, advocacy groups, activists forever.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: So that's something that's a like beef I have with it a little bit, is sometimes there's a little too much of a jump to this is AI, when really like there are certain types of writing that the machine has learned.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what people sound like.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm not saying that's always the case, but I do think there needs to be a little more discernment when it comes to that.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I have seen people like, I saw someone was like, someone emailed uh just a regular email to a colleague, and the other person was like, this sounds like AI, and the other person emailed back and was like, No, I'm just autistic.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I love that.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_03: Calling people out on it is kind of crazy.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like, in a way, because mind your business a little bit.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I actually love that, you know.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if you've seen it, but so we're recording this December 23rd before Christmas, but Porsche came out with a commercial where it's like, this is not AI, it's human-made, and it's a cartoon, like old school cartoon.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, we can get into the art stuff, which is like, you know, I've I've had some acceptance around that business marketing writing is, you know, a certain percentage has been replaced with AI, and that's just an acceptance point that I'm at.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like we have to adapt within my field to survive.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_03: But when it comes to art, I'm like hard stop, bro.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_03: Hard stop with the AI.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_03: Not I'm I'm 100% hardstop.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even I mean, people think I'm crazy, but when people schedule a sales call with me, I send a personal video.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: I use Bomb Bomb and I have a whiteboard with their name on.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it says Monica, press here, play here.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: So people know I handwritten it.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: I made the time to do a video, and it's come a long way.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was looking at my sales conversions.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's 70%.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's huge.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's the automated shit.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, thanks for scheduling a call.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: Excited to talk to you.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: No, I like go more personally.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: What's up?
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, hey, I checked you out on LinkedIn and Instagram.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_03: I also And it makes people feel special.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like, honestly, like we've talked about it when we first met June 28th.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, what crazy thing did I do to you?
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't crazy, but for me it was startling.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: We're friends still.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_03: It was a result.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_03: We're friends.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_03: What did I do?
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_03: Elaine was having her first event of her business ever, and you were going through personal contacts as you do to invite people to this event.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_03: I think a friend, so Kat was a friend of a friend of yours or went to high school with someone that was.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we still don't know who exactly it was, by the way.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I can't remember.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_03: So my my best friend was a like uh two degrees away from Elaine and got invited to this event.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_03: And she was like, Do you want to go?
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, cool.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I signed up.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_03: And then whatever, how many minutes or an hour later, get a text that's like, I'm so excited that you're coming to my and it wasn't an auto text.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_03: It was Elaine texting me.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: Because it was a blue bubble.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_03: It was a blue bubble.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's my iPhone.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't an SMS.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_03: There was no, there was no option to stop because it was a real person texting me.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I was like, oh, like for and and like in that moment, I was like, oh shit, like, okay, like this is, and I didn't feel like it was like weird.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_03: I was just like, oh, this is different.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't usually get this.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_03: It put a little more pressure on where I was like, oh, okay, this person knows I'm coming now.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_03: So, but I think in a way, it's like people could are gonna do what they're gonna do either way, but there was something about it and everything like that, where you're like, oh, I feel like this person cares if I'm there or not.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_03: I'm that you felt that you felt that.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, this is not about this podcast episode's not about us, Monica.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: But we also talk about personalization, right?
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the whole thing, like marketers like thing always, and I get it, is that first name, merge tag, and an email is not personalization.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I can't tell you how many times I've read that in the last couple of years.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, you're right, but at the end of the day, it's like this your type of personalization because you have like, you know, you have high offers, higher offers.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_03: So you can be a little more free.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: If you have high offers like mine, and yeah, I ain't cheap, everyone.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: No, yeah.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like if I am because I only work with 15 clients at one time, and so I want to show the individualization by sending that message.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll okay, I will be transparent and honest.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, this happened to me um a couple years ago.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: This is the boo-booing mistake I had, but I was working with a client, it didn't end up well.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I was doing the individualization and then I have people fill out a welcome packet.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: And before our first session, I didn't read the welcome packet.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: That was on me, okay?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: That was not on her.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then she was like, You hyped yourself up by building this relationship, creating a video, individualizing it, but you didn't even do this for our first session to Pratt.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, fuck, you're right.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: Mind you, like we ended the contract, but then I had to ask myself, like, how do I continue showing that throughout my coaching?
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, follow through.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: And even like since you've worked with me as a client, Monica, like now I actually have a dashboard when I work with clients and an action items for it.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: So like it feels like sports in a way.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's not just, I think people think marketing is like, how do I get the client or customer?
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: But people forget marketing is also through the duration of the relationship.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's the entire life cycle.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like you're the life cycle of that client relationship ended after that, and you learned what you have to do.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, I am doing this again.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_03: And that happens in all industries.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_03: We're mostly talking about services here because that's what both of us do.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not exactly a consumer packaged goods expert, I will say.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_03: But personalization in um consumer packaged goods or product marketing or e-commerce looks a lot different.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_03: But I will say also, it's a lot of work to do behavior pathways with like, you know, your e-commerce site or things like that.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_03: So be gentle with yourself.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_03: I know you're probably hearing that personalization that if someone does this and someone does this, you need a special pathway for people, and it is great.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_03: Automation is great, and you want to be able to personalize based on like what they'd clicked on on your website and what they showed interest in.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it's a lot.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, you could create all of that, but you could honestly individualize it.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, here's a tip they schedule a call, you find their Instagram or LinkedIn and be like, hey, I saw you scheduled a call.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to see you.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I see you went to this school.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: I went there too.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, find a commonality.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to be this automated, crazy thing.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, or even example.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I remember when type form was very popular, it's still kind of popular to use a form.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good one.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I was like, why am I gonna spend X amount per month on this when people are used to Google forms?
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_03: Spending on it?
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's not necessary.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, why don't I just use what I have?
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think we just like overcomplicate.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like we overcomplicate it just because it's trending and everyone else is using it.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no, think of the consumer.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: What are they used to?
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: How can I make this super simple for them?
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I think, you know, talking about AI, like there's there's so many reasons, you know, I don't like it.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_03: But if we're we're talking about for people's businesses specifically, and specifically like other marketers or business coaches or people with your own services, um, you know, small business owner that doesn't have the budget to hire a marketing person, um, which is a real thing.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, like you said, we're not cheap.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like, and we work really hard, I will say.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_03: For your neighbor, your friend, your neighborhood marketer, we work really hard.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like, content is a lot, analytics is a lot.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I will say, like, you know, I'll I'll like I will sing this from the mountaintops, like you have to pay people like well to do, you know, a good marketing job because it's a ton of work.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_03: But um, and you know, some people take advantage, and I understand that.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_03: But I will say, if you uh are using any type of AI for your business, and this is likely ChatGPT or Gemini or something, um, you know, think about how it is a tool to support you and your goals, but don't think about it as a like fix for your business.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yes.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I do use AI.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, hey, like review this.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: Or I'm like, there's this one line.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not have this transition is just not working for me.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let me edit this.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, great tool for subject lines.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but sometimes I'm like, uh, excuse me, this is too corporate for me.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, but still, like make sure you're writing your own stuff, use your voice.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how you know, it's really important to keep your voice and be able to express it, you know, to to do those things, to feel those things in your business for your clients.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I would say strike a balance.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think that's the trend too, is people are starting to notice, like you said, even if you know, people aren't being as discerning, it's like people are gonna notice if you're putting an effort in, or if you're not, or if you're just not worrying about transitions, not worrying about if things feel a little like sound a little bit like stiff, things like that.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I think in what we do, it's it's inevitably here, but it's gonna be really important if it isn't here to be able to write emails on your own.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: What it's interesting.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: I I I closed two recent clients.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because of my emails, and they've been in my email list for about a year, which is new, actually.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: Usually people just find me and want to hire me.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the feedback they've gotten, I just love how you write your emails and they want to know how to do that, do it themselves, whether it's email, LinkedIn, it doesn't matter what content.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so, an exercise I told them to do that I do that you, the listener, can do as well, is like on a Friday or when I'm just feeling it, being reflective, it's about there's about to be a big ass storm here in LA.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I'll just reflect what are common trends and themes I'm hearing from clients in my audience.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: What's a big story or lesson I learned this past week?
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: And whatever that is, and I mind you, it's obviously confidential.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying it's Monica who discovered like Monica went through this and then I helped her do these names.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: But it's just I share that story or that reflection or lesson.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it really resonates with people.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, we're both millennials, older millennials, where it's like, go back to the days of like Zangin Live Journal of Yeah.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: What did I learn?
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_03: We're we're back, we're back to long form content and physical mail is a big one that I've seen where it's like a bro, even like when I was like maybe well, I guess it was like 15 years ago.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_03: Sheesh.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_03: But I still like have nonprofit clients that send out physical mailers in half the entire time they've existed.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_03: So like those have not gone out of style in certain things.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_03: But like I've I've like, I have hired people based on them putting flyers on my car in LA.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like, because for me, I was like, you made the effort to put this flyer on my car.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_03: And like I wouldn't have found you any other way.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_03: So like if you're, you know, there, but but you know, I think I've heard a little bit, but I agree, like physical mail, I think is gonna come back.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_03: People are tired of only getting bills and in the mail.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's really nice to get something that's a little more personalized.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_03: And then um, you know, I think long form is is coming back, like blogging, like you were saying, like not live journaling, but a lot of Substack has been growing a lot um this year for sure.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like a lot of people are like, why don't you Substack?
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_03: I can't tell you how many times I've heard people have asked me that.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, um, I don't want to do another thing.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_03: I appreciate it.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I just and it doesn't have to be crazy, like you're doing direct mail marketing, getting the list, segmenting all that stuff.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yesterday I wrote a handwritten card to someone.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's huge.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's it and nobody does handwriting cards.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: Usually it's like typed up.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_03: And like in, you know, um, mailboxes are full of just bills and spam these days.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_03: And like we're our attention is pulled in so many ways digitally that it's so overwhelming that it's nice.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_03: Whenever I get something from someone and they've handwritten it and I get to like, you know, it's nice.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like the word of 2025 has been overstimulated, which is true.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: I have been everybody's been feeling overstimulated.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the surface level is which is why I'm like, I think long form's coming back.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_03: I think people actually like reflecting and you know, making connections, you know.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_03: I also I think the term storytelling is overused too.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like every year, every second, I hear people be like, it's all about storytelling.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_03: Storytelling is in, blah, blah, blah.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, human stories have always been in, by the way.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_03: This is not even like a trend.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like, it's just like, I swear, everyone, every time someone says storytelling, I like want to lose my mind.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like in a marketing, like in a marketing sense.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: But you know what's interesting though?
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: I know we talk about storytelling, and yes, that's important, but people don't know how to use storytelling.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, but what does it mean?
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_03: I've asked people all the time.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, cool, you said the word, but like what does that mean to you?
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_03: What does that look like?
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: Because people love to say words like that, you know, like on a panel or on a thing, but I'm like, that wasn't helpful.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I want to add this.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know we kind of brainstorm what we're gonna talk.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: A fourth thing is like people want like real action.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what can you help them do?
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I say this because I speak a lot, and how I've messaged myself is I am not a mode motivational speaker.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: I am well you're very motivational in that video.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, it was a pitch, so I had to well, I'm just saying.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: But when I pitch when I pitch myself to do workshops and speaking you just like, I'm not a motivational speaker, I care about integration for you to take action.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so the feedback I've gotten, and I was at a talk last year, 200 plus um executives, and there was big names.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna share their big names, but it was all storytelling, but there was no like action.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was just like a feeling like, oh, I feel like, yeah, I'm inspired because she went from this to this.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: But where was the action?
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: As opposed to little old me, I'm not a celebrity yet.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, people are on the floor, but like I really appreciate your workshop because you actually gave us action to do.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like people are kind of tired of the like feeling, like make me feel good to like tell me like strike a balance for sure.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_03: I think you know, we've we've we've said that like, you know, the surface level is kind of out, and that's part of that, right?
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like a surface level story where you're like, yeah, but you actually didn't like say much there.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know what I mean?
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's like good for you for overcoming that, but yeah, but and then I feel like the whole, oh, the preachery, like you should do this, this, and this, like, done.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, not not that.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's more of a this is what I learned.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: These were things I did that you could try to implement too, not the do do do do luxury.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_03: And this worked for me, so it can work for you.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_03: Not true necessarily.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_03: But I yeah, I do think that it's like people going deeper is gonna be part of it.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_03: And again, you get to choose how what that looks like.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, it doesn't need to look like how someone else gets goes deeper.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think that's why you know, blogs, podcasts, people go deeper on podcasts, which is why people are kind of trending back to that.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, as opposed to like, I mean, what you know, we love seeing audio trend funny videos on on Instagram, TikTok, whatever.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_03: Instagram for me, because I'm an older millennial.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_03: But I see the trend, you know, a couple weeks later.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_03: But but like at the end of the day, what is that giving us now?
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we're all like a lot of people are fatigued from it.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's every single content creator re like redoing the same audio.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes they're literally the exact same thing because they they've seen someone else do it and it go viral.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just like this, this formula is is cannot keep tiring.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_03: It's tiring.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's tiring.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, it's like, yeah, sometimes it's cool to go on go and see like funny videos and like, you know, don't even get me started on the streaming stuff because it's out of control.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_03: But I saw this thing the other day, it was like, I read books, I love to read books because they have no ads.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, I a lot of you know, a lot of people who are blogging, you know, bigger podcasters do have ads, and I get that.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like, if you want to keep if you want to do something for your full, like, you know, almost full-time thing, like, you know, it needs to be funded.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think a lot of times people are just going for, like you said, being less bombarded by quick things all the time.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_03: And just like we want to go to even like just so many people wanting to go to the Portland, the WB is coming back to Portland.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_03: People are so excited.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like going to sports games, like not even just not even the it doesn't have to be the expensive ones.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like, we have a lot of like, you know, college development leagues, soccer leagues, baseball leagues here that are very cheap to go to.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_03: We have like a minor league hockey team, and people, the amount of people that go to these things because they want to experience something that isn't like just you know, making their eyeballs glaze over it.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's like it's growing and like I think it's gonna keep growing.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I think people want that connection for sure.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_03: And they always have.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_03: We've talked about this, but the fatigue is like I feel like this like digital era that grew um because of you know, lockdown and in-person being, you know, unattainable because it wasn't safe has now is now like running its course in the sense that like people were just burnt out on the digital code.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, a huge lesson like two years ago, um I was doing a newsletter and a podcast every week.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: So that's two emails sent out every week.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then I realized that we were just creating this machine of content, but it was content that wasn't great.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I had to ask myself this hard question, which you, the listener, should ask is what's enough content for me to give my undivided attention to?
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, I just realized two emails a month and two podcasts a month, and that's it.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: Even then, like even then, it's a lot.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I'm like, I'm gonna just do one podcast this month.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's the energy I have.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: But people appreciate it because people know the time and energy put into it as opposed to, oh, I need to do two, I need to, you know, this is how many podcasts I said I was gonna do this month.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: I need to go do it.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: People know that energy when you're just doing the most without yeah, when you're like forcing it.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_03: That's why Sarah and I with play like a day.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_03: We're just like, if we're not feeling like talking about something, we're I mean, Monica, how'd we plan this podcast?
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we were like, we saw an email about marketing trends that we both get.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, should we do a podcast?
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like literally was a text message like, hey, when you do a podcast.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, okay, here's my booking link.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then here we are.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_03: Here we are.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_03: Here we are.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the sets we know is that having a long podcast episode isn't it for this audience.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to hear from you what are big takeaways or actions you would like our listeners to go with.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um the takeaways, I think that like I will say, from what I've seen, even when people have done like trending content, gone viral, gotten lots of followers, but they've gotten followers on like just trending content, there's not action taken by that audience.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like maybe people are sharing it to their friends, and a lot of them probably are.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_03: But that there's no action past sharing it in the past.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's the real question.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: How much, how many clients and how much money did you make?
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's a real That's the real question.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_03: That's the real question.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_03: How many views?
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's not like and that's always been the question.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_03: Because at the end of the day, I don't think anyone really wants to spend that much time creating content.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like the goal is to be able to do less, right?
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like generally.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_03: It is.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I don't see that really happening for people for the most part, maybe a tiny percentage of people.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_03: But for the most part, even those tiny percentage of people making content that get to make money off of it have to just keep chasing, you know, that machine.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_03: I think.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_03: And now, I mean, uh if we're gonna talk about AI, it's gonna come fucking crashing in making content, which is horrifying.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_03: But here we are.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_03: So I would say that the deeper connections that you can make with people that has never been on trend has always just been the way that people are and the way that like commerce works, you know.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like if we want to talk about commerce instead of capitalism, like my goal is like commerce within my community, like helping.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: Define commerce, just in case people don't know what commerce is.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_03: The exchange of goods and services.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_03: I would say for our for our value, for what we bring to the table, um, not for the sake of, you know, exponentially like, you know, multiplying dividends and profits for shareholders and just making companies money.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um but you know, that commerce between people in these communities we have, um, building those deeper relationships, you know, like taking care of each other in that way.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're going to be in that corporate world, not losing yourself in it, like we talked about at the beginning, um, knowing that you are bringing value to it, but it is not your identity, you know.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: I I like giving the metaphor of remember back in like in school, you should get straight A's.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_01: And when you get straight A's, you get the job when you go do the job interview.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, when you go do your job interview, do they ask you like what was your GPA?
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: What your GPA was?
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's the same thing.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: You a client wants to work with you.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_01: How many followers do you have?
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: I want to work with you.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: No, they don't care about that shit.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_01: They care about like what were your results?
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: Did you work with a client like me?
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_03: Were you able to create and execute a marketing plan for a local business?
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_03: Whatever.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is why people have a trust issue because it's like, oh, this person has a million followers.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: They must have their shit together.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, a lot of people are even smarter than that.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: They realize, oh, they just show the same two to three client testimonials.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, people are just so much smarter than that.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then what you were just saying in terms of commerce, I've leaned into the I work with 15 clients at one time.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_01: And because of that, the clientele I get, they're like, I actually like that you only work with a few people and you care about the service.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and Monica, you and I are very similar.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, dude, just put me at an event.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just not honestly put me on a panel.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but it's not, it's not the I'm sure you get annoyed.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's not because we're gonna be the like, oh my gosh, look at me, center of attention.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_01: We know our shit.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_01: And when people meet us, they know that we know our shit.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I've gotten the same feedback as like, you know, it gives that like how are you with people, like you were saying from the beginning.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how are you interacting with your like fellow, you know, people at the event or the crowd or just people you're talking to one-on-one.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_03: But it it is like if you can back it up.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_02: Back it up.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like, you know, it's that's that's how you create those deeper relationships.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_01: So people obviously fell in love with you in this episode.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if people want to get to know more of your work, want to work with you, want to connect, how can they find you?
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you can find me at monicashrock.com, S-C-H-R-O-C-K, but I'm sure it'll be in the show notes.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_03: And then um MoneyShrock on Instagram.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um I love that Instagram handle, by the way, MoneyShok.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_03: Very basketball driven.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um find me on LinkedIn too, MonicaShrock.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you'll see the play like a day uh cover image.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then Monica, you've worked with me.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_01: I always ask in every episode, what do you want to share about your experience breaking with me for those that might be interested?
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I had the pleasure of working with Elaine for as her client um for a few years.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll say, I always like I always say this, I'm a broken record, is that I didn't feel like I had to be anyone else other than myself.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like Elaine was very much like I if I was like, ooh, I don't feel like I want to do that, she's like, cool, let's find another, let's find another way to do that, another solution, something that keeps you grounded in who you are.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_03: So I've always loved that about you.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: And on that note, I'm gonna add a bonus trend is the plug and play material.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't work anymore, which is what Monica and I have been sharing right now, or what we even shared about each other.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, you saw me as a human, not just like, you need to do this because it worked for me and other people.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_03: This is a this is a great example, too, is I've always tried to have packages for my services because it would be easier for me.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't work.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like I have to do custom proposals and like you don't want to be in a label, Monica.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_03: You're not that type of person.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_03: I would like to because it'd be so easy, it's so much easier than doing custom stuff.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_03: But like my clients don't they don't fit the same thing every time it doesn't work.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_03: So I have to do, you know, bespoke uh customers.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: Same.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, since I've worked with you, how I've changed is like now when I share proposal, like okay, these were the goals we talked about, measurements, action items.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not the stage one of our work together is gonna look like it's stage two.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: Then it's like I'm just someone going through your factory.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it doesn't work for me, maybe.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Monica, thank you for texting me, forcing me to do this episode.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_01: I know I love to to just uh step onto your podcast whenever I I know and plug in another podcast that she that they're in.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh it's not a competing podcast.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm just kidding.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Monica.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_01: What did I tell you?
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_01: Did I not tell you you were gonna get all these actions?
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're like, oh, this is great, but you were driving, you were doing something, then go back and re-listen to this episode because there was a lot of gems in here.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_01: And if you are like me or Monica, you're probably frustrated with the uh AI, like how do I how do I do this?
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_01: And remember, it's not about doing the most.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's not being this content machine.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's about understanding, okay, what parts do I want to share about myself?
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_01: What parts do I not?
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_01: How can I be myself authentically?
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_01: So if you found this episode helpful, share this with a friend or two.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_01: Send them a personal message like, hey, this was a great podcast episode.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I learned on marketing.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_01: You should consider listening to it.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_01: And this is why.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_01: And if you enjoyed it, please leave a five-star rating in review.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: We created this podcast for accessible education for all.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: My team and I have worked really hard on this.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_01: So leave that review.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_01: It allows other people to find this episode.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're like, Elaine, I want more.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: I want to know how you've been able to get incredible results like you did with Monica and with your 300 plus client testimonials that you could check out at elanelew.com forward slash testimonials.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe you're interested in working with me, then schedule a call with me at elanelew.com forward slash call.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's E-L-A-I-N-E-L-O-U.com forward slash call.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_01: During this call, you'll get three action items towards your goals.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_01: By the end of the call, if it's a great fit to work together, great.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'll share with you how it may look like to move forward and work together.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_01: And if it's not a great fit, great.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'll refer you to other people and resources.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: So either way, it's a win win situation for you.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm excited for you in this new year.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited for all the exciting things you're doing and your goals.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll catch you on the next episode.