Latest / This Film is Lit / Prequel to Wicked - Aquamarine Fan Reaction, Wicked Three Ways

Transcript

Prequel to Wicked - Aquamarine Fan Reaction, Wicked Three Ways · This Film is Lit

• 0:07
  Speaker A: On this week's prequel episode, we follow up on our Aquamarine listener polls and preview Wicked, the Book, the musical and the 2024 film. Wicked the Book, the Musical, the Film.
• 0:24
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 0:26
  Speaker A: Welcome back to this film. Visit the podcast. We talk about movies that are based on books. It's another prequel episode. We got so much to talk about. We're gonna jump right in, as we always do, to our patron shout outs. I put up with you because your father and mother were our finest patrons. That's why. No new patrons this week. But we do have our Academy Award winning patrons and they are Amanda Nicole Goble, Harpo Rat, justice for Kevins, Mathilde Cottonwood, Steve Ben Wilcox, Teresa Schwartz, Ian from Wine Country, Kelly Napier Gratch. Just scratch. Shelby says, I guess it's a good time to be a sportsball fan. And that darn skag. Thank you all so much for your continued support. Not exactly sure what Shelby's. I guess the, the World cup, maybe Canada. No, they are out already. They went out before the U.S. but I mean, I think, I think Shelby might just speak broadly like people like watching the World cup who are fans of sports. Yeah. So I, but I, I'm trying to think what. I don't think there's really anything, anything else going on. Not that I know baseball, I mean, is like ongoing, but sure. But in US Sports, everything else is on this pause. NBA is over. Maybe changed it during the NBA Finals while the World cup was going on because I think the NHL was also because there is a period where the NHL Finals, the NBA Finals, sometimes the World cup and baseball are all going on at the same time in like June.
• 1:53
  Speaker B: So that is a good time to
• 1:55
  Speaker A: be a sports ball fan, if you like. All just sports generally. Yes.
• 1:58
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:59
  Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. Anyways, thank you all for your continuing support. Katie, it's time to see what people had to say about Aquamarine. Yeah, well, you know, that's just like your opinion.
• 2:12
  Speaker B: Man on Patreon. We had two votes for the book, zero for the movie, and one listener who couldn't decide. Shelby said I had almost the opposite experience. Katie did. I saw the movie when it came out on DVD and I thought it would make a great sleepover movie for preteens. The idea of hiding a mermaid in a water tower is very fun and has stuck with me. We had one just like it growing up. I assume you mean the water tower. The movie has a pretty good message for kids too. I still think all of that, but man, I could not sit through this as an adult. Technically, I have seen this movie before. So I decided to turn it off early and spend my valuable time between work and sleep with Sam and bucky on AO3 instead. No one would know the difference. I didn't know this was a book. It was short and sweet with a good message, too. This one's another tie for me.
• 3:08
  Speaker A: That's fair. I mean, yeah, you. No reason to watch movie you're not enjoying. I thought it was fine. Like, I said it was fine. But if I had seen it before, I'd be like, maybe. I'd be like, man, I already.
• 3:17
  Speaker B: It's probably not something that I would rewatch necessarily, so definitely.
• 3:21
  Speaker A: I mean, short of having a child or something that I would show it to potentially. But, like. Yeah.
• 3:26
  Speaker B: Our next comment was from Kelly Napier, who said it was close, but I picked the book over the movie, mostly because the preteen movie tropes were troping a little too hard for me in the movie. Also, the movie immediately lost points by not giving Aquamarine, a fake, more standard girl name for when she was on land. They all just called her Aqua and never questioned what an odd name it was.
• 3:52
  Speaker A: I mean, you're not wrong. But also, people had weird names, so.
• 3:55
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
• 3:57
  Speaker A: Trying to think. I don't know if I knew anybody with a really weird name, but I definitely. Names are all made up.
• 4:02
  Speaker B: So the movie probably just didn't want to spend time setting that up.
• 4:05
  Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, what would make sense is if a person. Yeah, they all just call her Aqua and never question it. That's the thing. Like, I think it might have been. There might have been one scene where somebody would be like, aqua. Your name's Aqua. She's like, yep. And then you're like, all right. Like that. You know, Because I think people would be like, oh, that's interesting. You'd get a remark about.
• 4:26
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 4:27
  Speaker A: It being an interesting name.
• 4:28
  Speaker B: But. Oh, the movie also lost points because how is a mermaid who needs salt water to survive going to live in a water tower?
• 4:35
  Speaker A: That's a fair point.
• 4:36
  Speaker B: That's why she kept eating the salt
• 4:38
  Speaker A: while she was drinking the salt, I guess.
• 4:39
  Speaker B: But she was vitamin deficient.
• 4:41
  Speaker A: Yeah, I guess. I guess she can. Yeah. Because that is true. Saltwater creatures can get by briefly, I think, in fresh water. Briefly?
• 4:49
  Speaker B: Like how briefly? Because it was pretty brief.
• 4:51
  Speaker A: Also, I will say it might be different with a. I think that's different with the. See, but it's weird because then they have her drink salt water. No, because they breathe water. They breathe underwater. I was going to say I was because in my head I was going like, well, if it's a mammal. Because I'm like, a mermaid's a mammal. If it's like a whale. I'm pretty sure whales can survive because they're not breathing the water. It actually doesn't matter if it's salt or. Or fresh water. You know what I mean?
• 5:15
  Speaker B: So then we're entering, like, the cryptozoology question of is a mermaid a mammal or a fish?
• 5:22
  Speaker A: Yes. Well, but it. Either way, I don't think it. But then again, it doesn't matter because they're magic. So, like. Right, because then I think you get in because. Because your argument be like, okay, if. If your mermaid is one that has to. That breathes water, that can just breathe under.
• 5:34
  Speaker B: She doesn't have gills.
• 5:35
  Speaker A: Yes, she doesn't have gills. But we also don't have any reason to assume she can't breathe underwater.
• 5:40
  Speaker B: Right?
• 5:40
  Speaker A: Like.
• 5:41
  Speaker B: Right.
• 5:41
  Speaker A: She can. We assume.
• 5:42
  Speaker B: We assume.
• 5:43
  Speaker A: Yeah, but she doesn't have gills, which makes it more confusing. If it's a mermaid with gills, then, yes, you could argue maybe it would make a difference between salt water and fresh water. Even without gills, if they can breathe underwater, you would also be like, okay, something's going on there that allowing them to breathe in both fresh water and salt water. But if they're like. If they're like a manatee that is breathing air, if they have to come to the surface to get air, but then can, like, hold their breaths for a long time or something, then it actually wouldn't matter if it was fresh or salt water. Because I think that only matters for fish that are actively exchanging oxygen through the medium. I think. I don't know. That was way more information, way more thought put into that than needed to be. But again, and you can correct on all the people would be like, well, it's a mermaid. They're magic. They can breathe in both.
• 6:34
  Speaker B: So it was interesting to hear y' all comment about where you knew the different actors from. For me, the girl who played Cecilia was Lindsay on Gilmore Girls, in which her character is much more sympathetic than here.
• 6:46
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 6:47
  Speaker B: She's also one of the girls in John Tucker Must Die.
• 6:50
  Speaker A: I've never seen John Tucker Must Die, but I recognize her from the poster. As soon as he said that, I think she's in the poster. I recognize her from that movie. I was like. I remember seeing her, like, in advertising for that movie.
• 7:00
  Speaker B: The actor who played Raymond was the douchey boyfriend Brad in the third Bring it on movie. Bring It On. All or nothing. The one with Hayden Pantiere.
• 7:10
  Speaker A: All right, fair.
• 7:11
  Speaker B: I had to keep reminding myself when I saw him on screen that his name wasn't Brad in this, and we were supposed to be rooting for him.
• 7:18
  Speaker A: Fair.
• 7:19
  Speaker B: So three things I've never seen.
• 7:21
  Speaker A: Yeah, same.
• 7:24
  Speaker B: And I know it probably will surprise people that I've never seen Gilmore Girls.
• 7:27
  Speaker A: I was a little surprised you've never seen any Gilmore Girls.
• 7:30
  Speaker B: I think at this point I'm not going to.
• 7:32
  Speaker A: Probably not.
• 7:33
  Speaker B: I've held out this long.
• 7:35
  Speaker A: I don't have a ton of interest in watching it. Not that we can't, but I don't have a ton of interest in watching it.
• 7:40
  Speaker B: Like, also at this point, I think I've heard, like, so much discourse, and particularly since they did the, like, the reboot and whatever, that I'm just like, I'm good.
• 7:51
  Speaker A: Yeah. I also. It's just, like, a drama, right? It's just, like, about people living in, like, a town.
• 7:57
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 7:58
  Speaker A: There's no, like, hook. Right. Like, there's not like a. There's not, like a supernatural element or anything like that.
• 8:04
  Speaker B: No, I think it's.
• 8:05
  Speaker A: Or even, like, one of them's a detective or. Or, you know, like Veronica Mars or. It's nothing like any of that. It's just, like, normal people living their lives in a town.
• 8:13
  Speaker B: Yeah. I think it's just, like, a space of life.
• 8:15
  Speaker A: Okay. That's. I'm just genuinely unsure. I had no idea.
• 8:18
  Speaker B: I think. And don't come for me, Gilmore Girls people. If I'm wrong about this, I think the hook is that her mom is, like, a single mom, and they're kind of, like, relatively close in age because her mom had her really young. I think that's the hook.
• 8:37
  Speaker A: I don't know. Yeah. I was just curious, because I'm always curious what a hook with a show is. You know what I mean? There's gotta be some angle that is, like, what the show is. But we're watching Madren right now. The hook of that show is both it is a period piece, but also it's about advertising. Like, it's about this industry, you know, like, it's not really what it's about, but it's. That's, like, the thing that is happening in the show that is the vehicle for which the show revolves around. And so I was just interested in Gilmore Girls. Like, if there's a thing that, like, you know, propels the show forward or whatever, or if it literally is just like, here are these people living their
• 9:12
  Speaker B: lives, like, seven Heaven or something that's it.
• 9:14
  Speaker A: Okay, that's. That's fine. I'm just genuinely curious because I have no idea.
• 9:20
  Speaker B: All right. Our last comment on Patreon is from justice for Kevin's AKA Nathan, who left several comments across platforms this time and justice for Kevins said, I just don't think you can go wrong with either version. I voted for the book because I think its message is an important one, but this movie is right in my wheelhouse world. It's tropey teen comedy. Goodness. It's one of the better examples the POD has found of complete. Completely different, but both very good. I loved the handyman character accepting the wish nonsense y' all mentioned and thought he had 11th hour Deus ex machina written all over him, even though it eventually made no sense. I was also excited that he gave an answer to the W versus M question because the shading made it obvious, and it would have driven me crazy if they didn't acknowledge that. Perhaps that's just because I'm the guy who likes to point out weird, interesting things like that to audiences that are often less than totally interested in them.
• 10:24
  Speaker A: Well, gonna prove you right here immediately. I don't even have any idea what you're talking about.
• 10:30
  Speaker B: So at the beginning of the movie, when they first encounter the, like, creepy handyman character, he holds up a sign and says, like, is this an M or a W?
• 10:40
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 10:41
  Speaker B: And I don't remember what it ended up being.
• 10:44
  Speaker A: I don't remember that at all. That happened in the movie. Yes.
• 10:47
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 10:48
  Speaker A: I don't remember that moment at all.
• 10:50
  Speaker B: Yes. I reassure you. It happened in the movie.
• 10:54
  Speaker A: What was the context of it? Do you remember? Like, is he. Like, what is the sign? Why is he asking?
• 11:02
  Speaker B: It might have just been, like, an individual letter. Like, he was doing letters, like, on a marquee or something like that.
• 11:08
  Speaker A: Oh, okay. That would make sense. Like, he's putting up the sign and that would make sense for his character. Like, he's putting the letters on, like, the sign out front and he's asking. Okay, sure.
• 11:19
  Speaker B: Over on Facebook, we had one vote for the book and zero for the movie. I went ahead and counted all of Nathan's comments as votes for the book.
• 11:29
  Speaker A: I think that's fair.
• 11:30
  Speaker B: And Nathan said y' all accurately identified Aquamarine as a manic pixie dream girl. But I do find it interesting that this film actually predates the coining of that term by Nathan Rabin in his review of 2007's Elizabethtown.
• 11:46
  Speaker A: I didn't know.
• 11:47
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's where that was.
• 11:48
  Speaker A: That Recent.
• 11:48
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's where it came from, actually.
• 11:51
  Speaker A: I've seen Elizabethtown years ago, but I don't remember anything about it.
• 11:54
  Speaker B: I mean, the coining of the term actually comes after, I would say a lot of examples of manic Pixie dream girls. Yeah.
• 12:03
  Speaker A: 100%.
• 12:04
  Speaker B: Perhaps even like the biggest one, which I would say is Ramona Flowers.
• 12:09
  Speaker A: She's one of. Yeah, I mean definitely.
• 12:11
  Speaker B: Like one of the like big examples.
• 12:14
  Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I mean also after the one, the other big one, another huge one. Isn't that. I think she is. I've actually never seen this movie, but Kate Winslet in Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, isn't she like kind of a quintessential manic picture? I could be wrong. Like I said, I actually haven't seen the movie, so I don't know for sure, but just based on her appearance and like what.
• 12:39
  Speaker B: I little seen that movie either, but I do feel like her character comes up in that conversation a lot.
• 12:44
  Speaker A: Yeah. As like a example of that.
• 12:46
  Speaker B: Yeah. Over on Instagram, we had one vote for the book, two for the movie, and one listener who couldn't decide. Tim Wahoo said, movies are always better. Consistent as usual, Tim and Nathan said. Speaking of predating things, the end of this movie reminds me a ton of the ending of Frozen. A storm calmed and a princess rescued through the power of non romantic love. And I do think. Cause we had a minor disagreement in the episode about that being a cliche plot point. And I think probably the reason I perceived it as such is that I think that has been done quite a bit more since this movie came out.
• 13:31
  Speaker A: Yeah, I definitely see it could. To be fair, I forgot that that was. I've seen Frozen once and I don't. Yeah. Didn't really remember like what the ending was, but I. I have a vague memory now because it's. It's her sister. Right. Yeah. And so, yeah, it's definitely been done since then, but. Yeah. And surely before.
• 13:48
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 13:49
  Speaker A: I don't know if it was.
• 13:50
  Speaker B: I doubt Aquamarine invented that.
• 13:52
  Speaker A: No. But. But to my point, I think that. I don't think it was as prominent and maybe in children's.
• 14:00
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think you're right.
• 14:02
  Speaker A: Prior to this.
• 14:03
  Speaker B: Yeah. Nathan also said here, I don't remember what order y' all read comments in. So I amuse myself by referring to my comment on other platforms, regardless of whether the listener will understand what I'm speaking of. But it worked out for you this time, Nathan.
• 14:17
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yes, it did. And I want to say I'll Clarify again, even more that I think it's specifically the thing that I think is unique, kind of unique about it, which is shared with Frozen, is that it is set up as a traditional romantic, which I might have said this in the episode. I don't remember.
• 14:35
  Speaker B: Yeah, you did.
• 14:35
  Speaker A: Okay. That is set up as a traditional romantic kind of fairy tale thing. But then the love that actually matters is like platonic love. That. As opposed. Because there are plenty of, even before Aquamarine, plenty of stories where the power of friendship or friend love or whatever is the thing that saves the day. But it's the specific subversion of the romantic with the platonic in this that I think is a little more unique.
• 15:00
  Speaker B: Over on Blue sky, we had one vote for the book and zero for the movie. And Nathan said, I agree that Emma Roberts is really good in this film. I like her generally. And my favorite of her roles is as the eponymous lead in Nancy Drew.
• 15:17
  Speaker A: Was that a movie or a show?
• 15:19
  Speaker B: That one was a movie.
• 15:19
  Speaker A: That was a movie.
• 15:20
  Speaker B: Despite being a seemingly easy choice for the pod, that movie is actually not based on any one book, but just a new adventure. The so close and yet so far away.
• 15:30
  Speaker A: I assume there are other Nancy Drews we could do. It's probably not the only adaptation. Maybe not.
• 15:36
  Speaker B: They are. They did. There was an adaptation, like, I want to say, around the time we started doing the podcast. Maybe a little later than that of, I think, the Hidden Staircase. I've never seen it.
• 15:51
  Speaker A: I do remember you talking about this,
• 15:53
  Speaker B: but other than that, I don't know.
• 15:56
  Speaker A: I don't know. Interesting.
• 15:58
  Speaker B: I had also. I had forgotten that Emma Roberts was. I had forgotten.
• 16:02
  Speaker A: Yeah, I had no idea. I don't. I don't know if I've even heard of that.
• 16:06
  Speaker B: That did inspire me to make a slight schedule change. So, Nathan, you might like next month's Patreon bonus episode.
• 16:15
  Speaker A: There you go.
• 16:18
  Speaker B: And finally, over on Goodreads, we had two votes for the book and zero for the movie. Nathan said, this book is just so good. I know Katie already said a lot of this, but it nails the feeling of things ending. This isn't something I left behind in childhood, so the message still really resonates with me now. It's hard to say goodbye and sometimes so easy to avoid making new beginnings, because you know where that leads. My favorite run of the book was Claire's warming to the new girl who will live next door. Slowly progressing from only speaking with her to save her from a fire, to liking her enough, to wanting to tell Hailey about her in her letters at the end. This was definitely about a girl wanting to be loyal to her friends, but I loved it as an example of how important it is to always keep making New Beginnings, even when it seems like the endings are so hard. And finally, our comment from Miko, who said the movie wasn't bad, but it was clearly aimed at a younger audience. So was the book, but it felt much more mature on its exploration of the subject. I'll give my vote to the book. I honestly believe the wish was just something Aquamarine made up to get the girls on board with her plan to date Raymond. The wish turning out to be fake might have complicated the relationships in the end a bit, but could have been a nice lesson about things not always having an easy fix.
• 17:40
  Speaker A: Is it talking about in the movie or. Yeah, okay.
• 17:44
  Speaker B: Like if at the end she had been like, oh, like I actually.
• 17:47
  Speaker A: I can't have made that wish come true. I just said that to get you. Which would actually make her character feel more in line with the character from the book that you described to be something.
• 17:55
  Speaker B: Yeah, a little bit.
• 17:56
  Speaker A: Because she's. Yeah.
• 17:58
  Speaker B: So our winner this week was the book with seven votes. Even though I think most of them were from Nathan to the movies. 2.
• 18:06
  Speaker A: I mean, even with that, even if you boil all his votes down to one vote, it's still like five to two or no, like four to two or something like three to two. It still wins.
• 18:15
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 18:16
  Speaker A: I think even if you combine all
• 18:17
  Speaker B: of his votes, seven votes to the movies too, plus our two listeners who couldn't decide.
• 18:23
  Speaker A: There you go. Thank you all so much for your your feedback. We love getting it. Katie. It's time now to learn a little bit about Wicked the life and times of the Wicked Witch of the West.
• 18:36
  Speaker B: Are people born wicked
• 18:40
  Speaker A: or do they
• 18:41
  Speaker B: have wickedness thrust upon them? You're green.
• 18:54
  Speaker A: I am. Welcome new students to Shiz University.
• 19:01
  Speaker B: Ms. Elphaba, you can room with Ms. Galinda. Popular. I know about popular. Oh, I saved you some space, by the way. Do you really think this is fair? I do not. I was promised a private suite, but thanks for asking. The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the west is a 1995 dark fantasy novel by American author Gregory Maguire. The novel is presented as a biography of the Wicked Witch of the west, whom Maguire names Elphaba Throp.
• 19:35
  Speaker A: Mm.
• 19:36
  Speaker B: The Wikipedia article. I had to put this down verbatim. The Wikipedia article describes it as, quote, a cynical, adult oriented revision of the characters and setting of L. Frank Baum's 1900 children's novel the Wonderful wizard of Oz along with its sequels and 1939 film adaptation. Cynical adult oriented revision, I feel like really gets to the heart of what I've heard. This is it is the first novel in the Wicked Years series and was followed by Son of a Witch in 2005, A Lion Among Men in 2008 and out of Oz in 2011, plus a number of short stories since 2012. The novel began the way that all great novels do, with the author contemplating the nature of evil.
• 20:33
  Speaker A: Yeah. I mean fame I you can make that argument. That is been the birth of many,
• 20:39
  Speaker B: many, many an art piece.
• 20:42
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 20:43
  Speaker B: In a 2008 interview following the release of A Lion Among Men, McGuire stated, quote, if everyone was always calling you a bad name, how much of that would you internalize? How much of that would you say, all right, go ahead, I'll be everything that you call me because I have no capacity to change your minds anyway, so why bother? By whose standards should I live?
• 21:07
  Speaker A: Can I introduce you to a book called Frankenstein? Mr. McGuire sounds like this does sound.
• 21:14
  Speaker B: Yes. Very similar to some of the points made in Frankenstein. Up to that point, Maguire had only written children's literature, which I did not know. I only know of his like adult I know I knew this one. And then he wrote another one. I can't think of the title of it right now. That is about. It's like from the point of view of one of the ugly stepsisters in Cinderella.
• 21:38
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, I wasn't aware. Yeah, I'd never heard this person's name before. So I mean, I knew the book existed, but I couldn't have told you who the author was.
• 21:45
  Speaker B: So. But in searching for an effective way to write about the nature of evil, Maguire mused on how villains in children's literature are often one dimensional stock characters. Having had a lifelong fascination with both Baum's books and the 1939 film, he decided to take the stock character of the Wicked Witch of the west and retell her story using according to a 2021 interview that he gave. He gave the same large scale and broad moral messages found in the novels of Charles Dickens. Okay, so a lot going on here.
• 22:22
  Speaker A: Yeah. Interesting.
• 22:24
  Speaker B: Wicked received mostly positive reviews. Publishers Weekly called it, quote, a fantastical meditation on good and evil, God and free will, which combined puckish humor and bracing pessimism.
• 22:39
  Speaker A: All right.
• 22:40
  Speaker B: Kirkus Reviews called it, quote, a captivating, funny and perceptive look at destiny, personal responsibility and the not always clashing beliefs of faith and magic. And Library Journal recommended the book to quote, good readers who like satire and love exceedingly imaginative and clever fantasy.
• 23:03
  Speaker A: So far, all of these reviews make me think that I might like this book. Maybe, I don't know, the bracing pessimism doesn't do much for me. But other than that, that bracing pessimism makes me go, maybe I won't like it. But other than that, everything else I was like, oh, it sounds interesting.
• 23:18
  Speaker B: The New York Times was a notable outlier, criticizing the novel's strident politics and moral relativism. Reviewer Machiko Kakutani argued that Maguire quote shows little respect for Baum's original story, stating that it turns a wonderfully spontaneous world of fantasy into a lugubrious allegorical realm in which everything and everyone is labeled with a topical name tag.
• 23:46
  Speaker A: Hmm.
• 23:48
  Speaker B: Okay, so we'll figure out what that means.
• 23:50
  Speaker A: I need to see more of the review to I don't know if that gives me enough
• 23:57
  Speaker B: in 2005, following the early success of the musical adaptation, Wicked spent 26 weeks on the New York Times bestseller list. Aside from that musical and the films that we'll be discussing, Wicked was also adapted as a graphic novel in 2025, and according to a 2009 interview that McGuire gave, there were plans for a non musical TV adaptation, although that mini, that miniseries never actually entered production. Yeah, so womp womp on that. So it is my understanding that the musical and consequently the films made heavy changes to the source material. I read through a couple articles trying to figure out how Gregory McGuire felt about that, and I'm not 100% sure. The impression I got was that he didn't necessarily dislike the adaptations, but it also kind of felt like he was being nice about it. Okay, so in a 2021 interview, he said of the musical quote, the biggest change they made was to my ending. I felt a little aghast, but came around to it because the messages remained the same. Time is short. Cherish who you love and what you do matters. He also dedicated the 2005 sequel Son of a Witch to the cast of the musical. I was not able to find the
• 25:29
  Speaker A: exact verbiage of this, however, makes sense. I would also dedicate my next book to the people that made me rich. Yeah, if I was guessing, he probably got relatively wealthy following the musical, becoming I'm sure a big smash success.
• 25:44
  Speaker B: Like, I don't, you know, I don't think that. Like, obviously the book was not unsuccessful
• 25:50
  Speaker A: right before the musical, but there's no way it was.
• 25:52
  Speaker B: And it's it is hard to get rich just off of a book Especially
• 25:56
  Speaker A: one book that it does open.
• 25:58
  Speaker B: You get rich from your book being made into a movie or in this case, a runaway success Broadway musical.
• 26:04
  Speaker A: And then movies. Yeah, and a bunch of stuff that you are getting rights paid for in perpetuity.
• 26:11
  Speaker B: Of the first film, I didn't look at anything he said about the second film, so we could save that for the next prequel. But of the first film, he stated in a 2024 interview, quote, I hardly recognize it as my book anymore. The novel's Elphaba is sharp and opinionated and powerful. In the film, Cynthia Erivo is also sharp, opinionated, and powerful, but she's also lovely. And that is a very interesting conundrum. I look at her performance with awe, thinking, how could you carry it out? He also said that the movie was, quote, far better than it has any right to be.
• 26:50
  Speaker A: I agree with that exact sentiment.
• 26:52
  Speaker B: Make of that what you will.
• 26:53
  Speaker A: But based on my memory of this movie from seeing it, I think twice. Yeah, that is. My exact feeling, is that it was far better than it had any right to be.
• 27:03
  Speaker B: I mean, I.
• 27:04
  Speaker A: Of the first one, I have not even seen.
• 27:06
  Speaker B: We'll get to it.
• 27:07
  Speaker A: I haven't seen the second one, so.
• 27:08
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, we'll get to that.
• 27:09
  Speaker A: We'll get to that when we get to it. But. All right, that was it for Wicked, the book. Now we're gonna learn a little bit about Wicked, the music. Please, everyone, take your seats. In today's ars, a real sorcerer who possesses true magic has become all too rare. Absolutely remarkable.
• 27:44
  Speaker B: That was you who made all that happen. How did you do it?
• 27:48
  Speaker A: I don't know.
• 27:48
  Speaker B: I've never known
• 27:51
  Speaker A: you come with me.
• 27:54
  Speaker B: Of course not.
• 27:55
  Speaker A: You.
• 27:56
  Speaker B: You. The Untold Story of the Witches of Oz is.
• 28:02
  Speaker A: I did not know it had a.
• 28:03
  Speaker B: It does. It has a subtitle. Nobody. Nobody uses it. Yeah, but it does.
• 28:07
  Speaker A: Wild. I had no idea.
• 28:09
  Speaker B: So this is a musical based on the aforementioned novel by Gregory Maguire with music and lyrics by Stephen Schwartz and book by Winnie Holzman.
• 28:19
  Speaker A: Not a relative, right?
• 28:21
  Speaker B: Not that I know of.
• 28:21
  Speaker A: The music and lyrics. I mean, I would claim him. I was about to say, it's not
• 28:26
  Speaker B: that I know of.
• 28:27
  Speaker A: And there's only one Schwartz family in this country. There's not that many of them.
• 28:30
  Speaker B: Yeah, we're all related. For anyone not overly familiar with musicals book in this sense, book by Winnie Holzman basically means anything that isn't the music and lyrics. So, like, the overall plot and story structure, any spoken dialogue, stage directions, placement of the songs, etc. So Wicked was actually Holzman's Broadway debut. But you will probably recognize some of Stephen Schwartz's other work, which includes the musicals Godspell and Pippin, or I think his two other, like most known ones. Neither are particular favorites of mine, but he also did a lot of work on musical films in the 90s, including Disney's the Hunchback of Notre Dame, Pocahontas, Enchanted, and the Prince of Egypt. Spoilers, all bangers.
• 29:26
  Speaker A: Yes, all great.
• 29:27
  Speaker B: So, following its publication, Gregory Maguire had released the novel's rights to Universal Pictures, where it had kind of been languishing, not for very long, but like, they weren't really doing anything with it. Then in 1998, Schwartz persuaded Maguire to release the rights to a stage production while making what Schwartz himself called a quote, impassioned plea to Universal producer Mark Platt to realize Schwartz's own intended adaptation. And Platt was apparently persuaded. He signed on as joint producer of the project, along with David Stone and John B. Platt. I assume they're related. I did not check on this. Yeah. In a 2021 interview, Gregory Maguire recalled Schwartz's push for Broadway over Hollywood, stating, quote, steven said, the reason you're not getting a good script for this is because everyone knows that people in Oz sing. A straight film is not going to hit the heart like a musical does, okay? And I. That's fair. People in Oz do sing.
• 30:34
  Speaker A: It is fair.
• 30:34
  Speaker B: They do be singing.
• 30:35
  Speaker A: They do. So.
• 30:36
  Speaker B: Stephen Schwartz was now faced with the task of condensing the novel's dense and complicated plot into a sensible script. To this end, he collaborated with writer Winnie Holzman to develop the outline of the plot over the course of a year. The book, lyrics, and score for the musical were then developed through a series of readings in these developmental workshops. Kristin Chenoweth, the actress whom Schwartz had in mind when writing the character, joined the project as Glinda. Stephanie J. Block played Elphaba in the workshops before Idina Menzel was cast in the role in late 2002. Of the musical's deviations from the novel, Schwartz stated in a 2007 interview, Primarily, we were interested in the relationship between Galinda, who becomes Glinda and Elphaba, the friendship of these two women, and how their characters lead them to completely different destinies. Wicked officially opened on June 10, 2003, at the Curran Theater in San Francisco. The cast included Kristin Chenoweth as Glinda, Idina Menzel as Elphaba, Robert Morse as the wizard Norbert, Leo Butz as Fiero, Michelle Federer as Nessa, Rose Carol Shelley as Madame Morrible, John Horton as Dr. Dillamond, and Kirk MacDonald as Bach. Following this out of town tryout, which received mixed critical reception, probably because they
• 32:03
  Speaker A: had to watch the second half of It's My Feelings on this musical aren't.
• 32:11
  Speaker B: The creative team made extensive changes before its transfer to Broadway. Holzman recalled, quote, stephen Wisely had insisted on having three months to rewrite in between the time we closed in San Francisco and when we were to go back into rehearsals in New York. That was crucial. That was the thing that made the biggest difference in the life of the show. That time is what made the show work. So basically, they opened in San Francisco, they got all the feedback from the critics, and then they said, okay, let's go fix some shit. And then they opened in New York and the musical made its Broadway premiere in October of 2003 at the Gershwin Theater. With most of the original production team and cast members, Wicked was Then nominated for 10 Tony Awards in 2004, including Best Musical book, orchestrations, original score, choreography, costume design, lighting design, and scenic design. While receiving two nominations for Best Actress for both Menzel and Shenoweth, Idina Menzel won the Best Actress award and the show also won the award for best scenic Design and Best Costume design. However, notably losing best book, original Score, and ultimately best Musical to Avenue Q. Right.
• 33:29
  Speaker A: It's the Avenue Q year. A big upset.
• 33:35
  Speaker B: However, Wicked had the last laugh. It is currently still running on Broadway.
• 33:42
  Speaker A: Didn't it just close? Am I crazy? What was it something else maybe just closed? I thought something else that had been running forever.
• 33:47
  Speaker B: Just that might have been Phantom.
• 33:48
  Speaker A: I think it was. I think maybe I was thinking of Phantom.
• 33:51
  Speaker B: The musical surpassed 1 billion in total Broadway revenue in 2016, joining the Phantom of the Opera and the Lion King as the only shows to do so. In 2017, it surpassed the Phantom of the Opera to become Broadway's second highest grossing musical as of 2026.
• 34:11
  Speaker A: Do you know what the first is? Is it Lion King?
• 34:13
  Speaker B: It's the Lion King. Yeah.
• 34:14
  Speaker A: Makes sense.
• 34:15
  Speaker B: It's the one you can take your kids to, right? Yeah, that's safely. You could take your kids to Wicked. You could, but they're not gonna have as good of a time as if the Lion King.
• 34:24
  Speaker A: Absolutely not. Yeah, 100%. All right. And now we're gonna learn a little bit about Wicked, the film.
• 34:33
  Speaker B: Something has changed within me.
• 34:39
  Speaker A: She doesn't a twink.
• 34:40
  Speaker B: When anyone thinks something is not the same. Of course she does. She just pretends not to. The wonderful wizard of Oz Summons you to the Emerald City.
• 34:55
  Speaker A: Come with me. What?
• 34:56
  Speaker B: To meet the wizard.
• 34:57
  Speaker A: Why couldn't tesl me? This is your moment. I'm come. I am the Great and terrible. Wicked is a 2024 film directed by John M. Chu, known for Crazy Rich Asians, now youw see me two Jim and the holograms, GI Joe retaliation, step up 3D, step up 2, the streets and others. It was written by Winnie Holzman, as you mentioned, who also wrote Once and Again My so Called Life and a couple episodes of the Wonder Years back in the day. And as you mentioned, she wrote the book for Wicked. It was also co written by Dana Fox who wrote the Lost City, Cruella. Isn't it Romantic? How to Be Single and Couples Retreat, among other things. I imagine Cruella was the thing they were going on there for a while. Probably.
• 35:50
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 35:50
  Speaker A: Because I believe Cruella came out a few years before Cruella was.
• 35:55
  Speaker B: I've actually heard that one is pretty good. I wouldn't mind watching.
• 35:58
  Speaker A: Cruella was 2021, so she probably came in 2021, 2022 to touch up the script before they started filming after Cruella
• 36:05
  Speaker B: was get the ladies who does sympathetic villains.
• 36:08
  Speaker A: Yes, exactly. The film stars Cynthia Erivo, Ariana Grande. Is it Ariana or Ariana?
• 36:13
  Speaker B: I think it's Ariana.
• 36:14
  Speaker A: Okay, Ariana Grande, Jonathan Bailey, Ethan Slater, Bowen Yang, Peter Dinklage, Michelle Yeoh and Jeff Goldblum, among many others. Has an 88% on Rotten Tomatoes, a 73 on Metacritic and a 7.3 out of 10 on IMDb and it made 758.8 million against a budget of 1 million. Huge smash success. Was nominated for 10 Oscars and it won two of them including Best Production Design and Best Costume Design. But it was also nominated for best Picture, Best Actress, Best Supporting Actress, I think. Or maybe just two best Actors. I think it might have been similar to I can't remember but for a ton of Oscars that honestly, I don't know if it should have been nominated. I like the movie, but that that's 10 Oscars for that movie is crazy. Although a lot of them are things like production design and costume design, which is like sure, fine. Like I get that all makes sense, but I don't know about all the. Definitely shouldn't have been nominated for best Picture.
• 37:08
  Speaker B: I don't know. I mean I would have to see what. I mean not. But I'm. I'm also one of those people who's always happy to see like a non Oscar y movie get nominated for things.
• 37:20
  Speaker A: Sure. I don't disagree with that. I just think they should be really good ones. That like Sinners is a non Oscar movie that got nominated for Oscars that I think should have been nominated for Oscars because it's incredible. But again, it's not a bad movie. I just don't know if it's Best Picture. Whatever. The Oscars don't matter. It doesn't matter. Who cares? I am going to more explicitly read Wikipedia than I normally do here because I just didn't have time to do notes this week. My work week is fucked. So in the 90s, Universal Pictures received a pitch from Demi Moore and producer Suzanne Todd and writer Linda Woolverton for a film adaptation of the book. As you mentioned earlier, which is revisions novel of L. Frank Baum's story, other actresses had apparently expressed interest in adapting the novel included Whoopi Goldberg, Claire Danes, Salma Hayek and Laurie Metcalfe. And they had also all been considered for lead roles along with Michelle Pfeiffer, Emma Thompson and Nicole Kidman. Nicole Kidman as either Elphaba or Glenda would have been hilarious. I'm not sure who it would make more sense for her to play. Probably Elphaba. But boy, none of those names stick out to me as like, you should be in this. Like, right. I'm just like, I'm trying to. I could see Whoopi as Elphaba, actually. I think she could pull that off. Probably not, Glenn. Claire Danes could. No, not. I don't know, man. None of those people strike me as like the right people for this job. But whatever. Wolverton had been hired to write the screenplay and Robert Zemeckis was considered as a potential director back in the 90s, which would have been interesting in 98. Stephen Schwartz, as you mentioned, persuaded Universal to adapt it as a musical. And that's a whole separate thing that you already talked about. In 2011, plans for a film adaptation kind of reared back up specifically of the musical this time, not of the book. At that time. Chenoweth, Menzel, Lea Michele and Amy Adams were all rumored as potential leads in the film 2011.
• 39:18
  Speaker B: That makes sense.
• 39:19
  Speaker A: Yes. Obviously Chenoweth and Menzel were still young ish enough to play the role. Lea Michele and Amy Adams probably from like Lea Michele from Glee. Glee and Amy Adams probably from Enchanted. Right. That was. Yeah, probably the reason they were all rumored. And some directors that were considered. J.J. abrams. I would have loved to see the J.J. abrams, Wicked, Rob Marshall, James Mangold, which would have been interesting. And Ryan Merkel what has he done? James Mangold, probably you. The thing you would most known for. For is he did Logan the Light.
• 39:54
  Speaker B: Yeah, I know. I know what you're talking about.
• 39:56
  Speaker A: I'm trying to remember. He's done a bunch of. That's selling him way short on his career. No, that's not. Yeah, he did Logan. More recently, he did a Complete Unknown, the Timothee Chalamet, Bob Dylan movie he did. He was involved with Dial of Destiny, and I think he wrote On Dial of Destiny, the Indiana Jones movie that came out a few years ago that was not very good. He hasn't directed a ton of stuff. Ford versus Ferrari was him. He also did the Wolverine from 2013, the one that came out before Logan Night and Day, which is that, like Tom Cruise. He also did 310 to Yuma, which is a good movie. He did Walk the Line, which is interesting. And I could see maybe why he would be considered. Because Walk the Line is like a musical.
• 40:44
  Speaker B: Right.
• 40:44
  Speaker A: Kind of thing. I think it's a musical. Technically, I've never actually seen it, but he also did Girl Interrupted, which I didn't know that, so. But he's a good director. He's done lots of interesting stuff over the years. Interesting choice for. I guess Girl Interrupted is probably the reason he would be considered for this. Maybe.
• 40:58
  Speaker B: And then Ryan Murphy.
• 41:00
  Speaker A: Yes, Ryan.
• 41:01
  Speaker B: Ryan Murphy on paper makes so much sense.
• 41:05
  Speaker A: Yes. I think it would have been atrocious.
• 41:08
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 41:08
  Speaker A: But on paper, something there that makes so much sense. There's definitely something.
• 41:14
  Speaker B: Especially in 2011.
• 41:15
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he was doing like, 2011 is when he started doing American Horror Story. Obviously had been doing Glee at that point.
• 41:23
  Speaker B: 2011 was like the height of Glee too.
• 41:25
  Speaker A: Yes. So it totally makes sense. He makes sense again. James Mangold's interesting. Rob Marshall makes sense. J.J. abrams is crazy to me. I don't even understand who would have ever thought J.J. abrams should make this is so we. I don't. I don't get that at all. I don't even see the connection with other projects he'd done that'd be like.
• 41:42
  Speaker B: Maybe he. Maybe he was a big fan.
• 41:44
  Speaker A: Maybe he's a big fan. I guess he was.
• 41:46
  Speaker B: Maybe he was like, I want to be considered for this. Maybe he loves the musical.
• 41:50
  Speaker A: Maybe. But it's just nothing about it strikes me as the type of story he usually. It's just so. I don't know. So interesting. Anyways, after Les mis's success in 2012, the project was greenlit, aiming for a 2016 release. Then after a Ton of development and stuff, stalling and blah blah, blah. It was announced in 2016 that the film would come out in 2019 with Stephen Daldry directing, primarily known for Billy Elliot. The film and the directed the stage. Like the musical adaptation or whatever. Billy Elliot. Daldry was reportedly considering Lady Gaga and Shawn Mendes for the roles of Elphaba and Fiero, which I thought was interesting. Lady Gaga's Elphaba would have been something. On August 31, 2018, Universal put that on hold to accommodate their production schedule and gave the film adaptation of Cats the release date that was formerly held by Wicked.
• 42:46
  Speaker B: And that went really.
• 42:47
  Speaker A: That went great.
• 42:47
  Speaker B: That went great.
• 42:48
  Speaker A: That went fantastic.
• 42:49
  Speaker B: Everybody loved it.
• 42:50
  Speaker A: Everybody loved it. No problems whatsoever. On February 8th of 2019, Universal then announced a new release date of December 22nd, 2021. On April 1st, 2020, Universal put Wicked on hold again to the COVID 19 pandemic and gave Sing2 the 2021 release date. Then on October 20th of 2020, it was announced that Daldry had left the production due to scheduling conflicts. And on February 2, 2021, it was announced that John M. Chu would take over as director. In November 2021, Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande were cast as Elphaba and Glinda. Dove Cameron, Renee Rapp and Amanda Seyfried were all. All reportedly auditioned for the role of Glinda. I could see any of those.
• 43:35
  Speaker B: I still think Dove Cameron would have done a really good job.
• 43:37
  Speaker A: She would have been great. I mean for Glenn. I honestly. At least in the first movie, Ariana Grande does great. So I have no complaints about her.
• 43:44
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, she ended up being great in the movie.
• 43:46
  Speaker A: But I do think Dove Cameron would have been really good. She's fantastic in that show that just became a musical.
• 43:53
  Speaker B: Yes,
• 43:55
  Speaker A: yes. Haven't seen the musical. Have seen.
• 43:57
  Speaker B: We really liked the show though. We recommend that to musical fans.
• 44:01
  Speaker A: If you're a musical fan, go watch Schmigadoon on Apple tv. We actually should. I would like to re. Watch that sometime because we. I don't remember anything about it, but I remember liking it. I will. We will warn you, they only made two seasons so it's not like it really matters. Like the story kind of ends.
• 44:15
  Speaker B: But I also. I did want to get to this era of musicals. So that's the most disappointing.
• 44:20
  Speaker A: That's the most disappointing thing. We didn't get to the. The era of musicals where I know more of the. The musicals we stopped before. Like. Yeah, the ones that I really like. So. But anyways, very good show. Jonathan Bailey was announced in September of 2022, having beat out Cooper Coke. I don't know who that is, but also both Nick and Joe Jonas.
• 44:39
  Speaker B: Really?
• 44:40
  Speaker A: For the role of Fiero, apparently. Oh, yep. On April 26, 2022, Chu announced that the adaptation will be filmed in two parts, the second being Wicked for good. Saying that it was difficult to incorporate the entire story into one movie without, quote, doing some real damage to it and compromising the story. He said it was decided to split it into two films because doing so would allow for, quote, depth and surprise to the journeys for these beloved characters. End quote. At one point, Stephen Schwartz thought he might. And I've heard this. So this is IMDb trivia facts now that we're getting into. And I've heard this one repeated.
• 45:13
  Speaker B: I've heard this one too.
• 45:14
  Speaker A: I assume it's true. I'm sure they talked about an interview, but apparently Stephen Schwartz, the head, at one point thought to modernize Glinda's big number popular by giving it more of a hip hop style rhythm. And apparently it was Ariana Grande herself who was dead set against this saying, quote, absolutely not. Don't do it. I want to be Glinda, not Ariana Grande playing Glinda.
• 45:35
  Speaker B: That's fair.
• 45:36
  Speaker A: That is fair.
• 45:37
  Speaker B: That is totally fair.
• 45:37
  Speaker A: She does still end up being Ariana Grande playing Glinda because it's impossible not to be when you're Ariana Grande.
• 45:42
  Speaker B: She's that famous. She's famous.
• 45:44
  Speaker A: One of the most popular pop stars in the world, like.
• 45:47
  Speaker B: But I understand.
• 45:49
  Speaker A: Yes, and that was a good choice. Yeah, that was a very good instincts on her part to do that and not. Yeah, 100%. The horse Fierro rides in this film is named Jack and it is apparently the horse that Jonathan Bailey rides in Bridgerton, or at least rode or like in some of the earlier seasons. Marissa Bode plays Nessa Rose in the film and actually has a disability and uses a wheelchair. And according to IMDb, this is the first time in Wicked's history that the character had been portrayed by an actress with a disability. I believe that that seems insane to me in all of the productions of Wicked over the years that they had never once cast a person in a wheelchair.
• 46:25
  Speaker B: No, I would believe. I would believe that.
• 46:26
  Speaker A: That's. I mean, I, you know, I guess I can. Look, I can believe it. I'm not saying because I understand the discrimination.
• 46:32
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 46:33
  Speaker A: I'm just saying that still seems crazy just based on how many productions of Wicked have been that's done over the years. But you know, yeah. It took a team of four braiders to achieve Elphaba's micro braids. The braiders came to set to work on the custom wigs. In total, there were 10 Alphaba wigs, though most of them were for Revo's doubles rather than for her herself. And, and her look in the film was very much. And I didn't include it here, but it was very much her input. Based on her input, both the micro braids and her fingernails apparently were things that she wanted to to bring to the character. Specifically. Director John Chu told CBS this Morning that George Lucas cold called him to rave about the musical after he saw it at a screening.
• 47:14
  Speaker B: Wow.
• 47:15
  Speaker A: So that had to be fun. Just get a call from George Lucas out of nowhere. Hey John, I just saw and I can't now do it. I sounded more like Owen Wilson. I can't do a George Lucas. Sabrina Carpenter auditioned twice for the role of Glinda. Of this director John Chu said, quote, physically Carpenter was flawless as Glinda and she's a very charismatic performer, but she didn't have the vocal range required for the role. The moment we saw Ariana Grande's tape, we knew she was our Glenda. End quote. Grande is famous for her soprano voice while Sabrina Carpenter's vocal range is a three octave alto, according to IMB Trivia. I'm just taking their word on that. I don't know anything about. I mean, I know Grande famously has a much higher as a soprano. I don't know anything about Sabrina Carpenter singing voice, but that matches with what I know of their music. So getting to some reviews. Kyle Smith of the Wall Street Vernal. Vernal. The Wall Street Journal called Wicked, quote, the most entertaining film of the year and the most dazzling live action Hollywood musical since Chicago Jazz Tangay. A Variety hell of a name. I don't even know if I pronounced that right, but cool name of Variety called it, quote, a musical masterpiece that is much more than we could have ever expected, end quote. They also praised choose direction, the performances and the sets and costumes. Antonio Blythe of Deadline Hollywood said it was, quote, a blast from start to finish. Delicious, hilarious romp that shows off Erivo and Grande's next level talent and laugh out loud comedy chops. They serve up every number with surprises, delights and genuine depth. Manola Dargis of the New York Times wrote that, quote, erivo is the strongest role in this splashy, overly long movie, end quote. While Gregory Elwood of the Playlist said, quote, grande often delivers startling depth to her character before jumping into a musical number that will have you grinning from ear to ear in end quote. Peter Bradshaw of the Guardian thought Jonathan Bailey was a standout performance, writing, quote, he uncorks an outrageous scene stealer as the heterocamp Fiero, end quote. Peter Travers, writing for ABC News, said that his performance was, quote, a display of song, dance and acting virtuosity, end quote. And that dancing through life his character's musical number or, sorry, dancing through life his music character's musical number was described as, quote, the adaptations being biggest musical accomplishment by Entertainment Weekly's Christian Haloub. The Oz Dust Ballroom and Defying Gravity scenes were cited as among the best of 2024 by Variety and Looper, respectively. This is an Ariana Grande stand editing this. Let me just put a list of filmmakers who said they liked the movie. By the way, guys, Steven Spielberg liked this and it's like, what the fuck are we. Who cares what. Like, it's just a weird. Not even a review. It's just people who say a lot
• 49:59
  Speaker B: of these names I don't even recognize.
• 50:01
  Speaker A: I know most of them. And it is. I think it's an intentionally. That's why I think it's like an Ariana Grande stand or something, because it's a weird mixture of people like Joe Dante is like the Gremlins director Adam McKay is the guy who did. Oh my God, what was the one about the stock market crash in the big short and like, don't look up. Sean Baker is the guy who did. I think he did Anora. I think that might be Sean Baker. I might be blunt in that. But he did. If it's. If that wasn't him. But I think it was. He did a bunch of other movies like Tangerine and stuff. He does like edgy, like interesting, weird movies. Drew Goddard's the guy who did the Martian, like, wrote the Martian and directed and wrote Cabin in the Woods. So is this like a weird. It's a mishmash of people who have. Anyways, very interesting. What we're. I'm just going to include this. Now. What we've been talking about is there's a list on Wikipedia at the bottom of the review section that is filmmakers that praised the film. And it includes Steven Spielberg, George Lucas, Oliver Stone, Joe Dante, Adam McKay, Sean Baker, Drew Goddard, William Goldenberg, Ronaldo Marcus Green, Laurel Parma, Rich Pepiat, Nicholas Stoller and Jewel Taylor. And I just thought it was very interesting that the bottom of the critic reviews. They just have a list of directors and movie People who liked the movie, which just seems like a strange thing to put in this to me. Anyways, finally getting to some negative reviews. Odie Henderson for the Boston Globe called Wicked, quote, visually unappealing and said it can't handle the tonal shifts. Authoritarianism. Authoritarianism and broad comedy make strange and uneasy bedfellows.
• 51:48
  Speaker B: I would.
• 51:49
  Speaker A: That's a weird thing. I disagree. I disagree with that. But. But, yeah, I don't disagree with the visually unappealing necessarily. It's a mixed bag.
• 51:59
  Speaker B: Odie, have you ever heard of a little musical called Cabaret?
• 52:03
  Speaker A: Yeah. That is an absurd thing to say. Authoritarianism and broad comedy make strange and uneasy bedfellows that famously. They.
• 52:11
  Speaker B: Famously. They do not.
• 52:12
  Speaker A: They do not. Yeah. That the producers, I think, is. Yeah. Would be another example. Yeah, Tons of the. The. Literally. Is it not called the. The fucking. There's a very famous Charlie Chaplin film where he plays Hitler.
• 52:28
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 52:29
  Speaker A: And like a broad. It's called. Oh, the Dictator. Or. No, no, the Dictator is the Terrible. The terrible one from a few years ago with.
• 52:39
  Speaker B: Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
• 52:42
  Speaker A: I can't remember any of these people's names.
• 52:44
  Speaker B: It's okay.
• 52:46
  Speaker A: The guy who plays Borat. Yeah. He made a movie called the Dictator. It might even also be called the Dictator, but there's a film, Charlie Chaplin film, with a very famous speech at the end about authority. And the whole thing is like a satirical critique of authoritarianism. Anyways, and then James Berardinelli, writing for real reviews, said, quote, although Wicked, Part 1 has its share of high points, some of which aim very high, the filmmakers seem to have embraced the concept of bloat as a beneficial characteristic. And then finally, writing for RogerEbert.com, christy Lemeyer said, quote. When it's all about the spectacle of big, splashy production numbers, this prequel to the wizard of Oz is thrilling, but that. It's far less effective.
• 53:27
  Speaker B: Or.
• 53:27
  Speaker A: But, sorry, but far less effective is the way chu wedges in the movie's heavier themes of authoritarianism. End quote. So, yeah, I don't remember how I feel about that in relation to this movie, but we'll get to that when we get to that. As always, you can do us a favor by heading over to Facebook, threads, Blue Sky, Instagram, Goodreads, any of those places interact. We'd love to hear what you have to say about stuff we talk about. You can also support us by hanging over to patreon.com this film is like, support us there. Get access to bonus content and other good stuff. Katie, where can people watch Wicked?
• 53:56
  Speaker B: Well, as always, you can check with your local library or if you still have a local video rental store, you can check with them. Otherwise, you can stream this with a subscription to Peacock. Appears to be the only place on Peacock.
• 54:11
  Speaker A: Didn't you. It was on HBO previously, but I
• 54:13
  Speaker B: probably was at one point. Or you can rent it for around $4 through Prime Video, Apple TV, YouTube, Fandango at home, or Flicks Fling.
• 54:24
  Speaker A: Amazing. I'm interested to see what this book is. I have like two pages in. I'm struggling to start reading it. Not to read it. I haven't even.
• 54:33
  Speaker B: I'm struggling to start reading it. I'm not. I'm excited to talk about this. I'm not particularly excited to read the book.
• 54:42
  Speaker A: Yes, that's where I'm at. And so I'm struggling to read the book. Yeah, because as we said, we've both seen this movie and both liked it.
• 54:49
  Speaker B: I liked this movie and I was absolutely like, look, I was a theater kid from 2004 to 2008. I know Wicked, Right. I was utterly convinced that the movie was going to be a disaster. Like up until we were sitting in the theater.
• 55:06
  Speaker A: Yeah, I thought it was gonna be bad. Even while we were watching it the whole time I was like, it's gonn bad. And then it just kept not being bad.
• 55:14
  Speaker B: Now we have not seen the second one. No, we have only seen the first one. We both enjoyed the first one. I also, like, I do think this is going to be an interesting series because there is a layer of adaptation in between the book and the movie that we're not really used to. But we have both seen.
• 55:32
  Speaker A: Yes, we've seen the musical.
• 55:33
  Speaker B: Yes. On stage. Actually, it was because of the movie that you saw it. Because I said, over my dead body will you see the movie without seeing it on stage first?
• 55:44
  Speaker A: Yes, I had heard many of the songs.
• 55:46
  Speaker B: We made a special trip to Memphis to see the touring production of Wicked.
• 55:52
  Speaker A: Yeah, I, I'd heard many of the songs because I also. I wasn't a theater kid during this time period, but I was friends with theater kids during this time period. And so the soundtrack, absolutely inescapable. The soundtrack was inescapable. I've listened to. To Define Gravity so many times in my life and, and in Cars in high school and stuff like that, but had never seen the musical until, like, we saw it and obviously saw the film when it came out. And yeah, I, I thought the movie was great. The musical, it's good. The first half is way stronger. Than the second half, in my opinion. Which is part of the reason I wasn't even super interested in seeing the second movie. Because then when the second movie came out and everybody's like, it's not as good as the first one and not really that good, I was like, well, I already didn't like the second music or the second half of the musical, Second act of the musical that much. So if the movie is, like, didn't really improve upon it then, which now I have heard, maybe I've heard conflicting reports. I've seen other people say that actually like the second one and that it did actually improve on. I don't know. So I don't have no idea. I'm interested to see.
• 56:49
  Speaker B: I am interested to see. And I. I said it so many times. When they announced that they were making it as two movies, people probably got sick of hearing me say it. But like this, the instant I heard that, I was like, I don't know how they think they're gonna do that. Because the second half of the musical is a bummer.
• 57:08
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yes. But I mean, to be fair, I don't.
• 57:11
  Speaker B: Like. It makes sense in conjunction with the first half. Narratively, it makes sense, but, like, as two separate things. Like, how are you gonna do that anyway? We'll get to that in part two of the summer series.
• 57:23
  Speaker A: Because I actually could see it the other way of being, like, there's an argument that if you do because the second half is a bummer, you make it its own movie. You can add a bunch more stuff to it and. And tweak it and. And.
• 57:34
  Speaker B: And make it.
• 57:34
  Speaker A: And turn it into something that has a more satisfying.
• 57:38
  Speaker B: Right.
• 57:38
  Speaker A: Arc and conclusion than the second half of the musical does and where. Whereas if you were to do it as one movie, you know, and you're. And you're more closely followed the musical and just the second half of the movie was kind of the. I don't know. I. I could actually see it working, but you would have to change a lot, I think. But I don't know. We'll see. I have no idea. Like I said, I don't know what they changed. I don't know what they didn't change. I also don't remember the second half of the musical that well. But. Well, anyways.
• 58:04
  Speaker B: Because it's not as good as the first half.
• 58:06
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
• 58:07
  Speaker B: Anyways. Not that it doesn't have a tie point.
• 58:09
  Speaker A: It has its moments. I'm not. Yeah, I'm over. Probably overly critical of the second half, but it's just it's so hard to compete. When you end your first act on Defying Gravity, that number, it's, I.
• 58:20
  Speaker B: You're not getting better.
• 58:22
  Speaker A: You're not getting back to that high. It's like, I don't know. You know? It's like putting the siege of Helms Deep at the beginning of your movie, you're like, what do we do now? Like, I don't know. Like, yeah, it's tough. So, anyways, come back in roughly one week's time. My episode might be a little bit late, depending on how long it takes us to read the book, but we will get it out next week. Until that time, guys, Galison, Binary Pals, and everybody else keep reading books, watching
• 58:47
  Speaker B: movies, and keep being awesome.