Latest / Salish Wolf / #65 Dan Nuttall on Project Quiver

Transcript

#65 Dan Nuttall on Project Quiver · Salish Wolf

0:06
Welcome to Project Quiver, a father daughter journey across
0:09
the globe to capture the artistry and spirit of the
0:12
world's finest traditional bow carvers.
0:14
I'm Todd, the father. Ella is my daughter.
0:17
Together we're on a mission to create a stunning coffee table
0:20
book that profiles more than a dozen master bow years and their
0:23
unparalleled skill. For each chapter, we travel to
0:26
the Bow Years workshop. Carve a bow under his guidance,
0:29
photograph his woodcraft in detail, and share his story here
0:32
on the Salish Wolf Podcast. The book is called Quiver, the
0:36
Art of Life Through Bowcraft and this journey, our living story
0:41
is Project Quiver. Dan, thanks for joining me on
0:50
the show. More than welcome, More than
0:52
welcome. So as we were just talking
0:54
before I hit record, you are based in Southwest England, is
0:58
that right? That's.
0:59
Right. Yeah, in the county of Devon.
1:01
OK. And how long have you been
1:03
there? I was I was born in a little
1:07
town called Brixham, which is one of the three towns that make
1:10
up Torbay. So it's only about 7 or 8 miles
1:14
from where I live now and that's where I was born and raised.
1:16
So I've been here 45 years. What's the area known for?
1:23
What's the area known for? The town that I live in is
1:26
primarily known for tourism. It's got some nice beaches when
1:30
the weather's nice and the sun occasionally shines.
1:33
And yeah, it's got, it's got a nice town, but it's the hometown
1:38
that I'm from. Brixham is the second largest
1:42
fishing port in Brixham in terms of fish landed per annum.
1:47
So it's got a very thriving fishing community.
1:50
And yeah, so it's really known for those two things, tourism
1:54
and fishing. Is there any surfing?
1:59
Some surfing. Surfing is better on the North
2:01
Coast of Devon. So like I said, it's a peninsula
2:05
that sort of juts out in between the Irish Sea and the English
2:09
Channel. The North Coast gets better
2:12
waves, better surf up there. Nice, so tell me a bit about
2:16
your journey in the bow craft. Yeah, so I first started making
2:24
bows would be would have been back in around 2008.
2:29
So I, I was a bushcraft instructor at the time.
2:35
So I was employed as a countryside Ranger in a local
2:40
park where I where where I live and I was very interested in
2:45
bushcraft and wilderness survival.
2:47
And one of the things that that I would do is I would go on
2:52
very, I'd go on lots of different courses to just try
2:55
and hone my skills in different areas of both craft and
2:58
wilderness survival. And one of the courses that I
3:01
booked myself onto was a primitive weapons course, which
3:06
I thought sounded pretty cool. And, and it was and it was
3:09
great. And there was, I had an
3:11
introduction to fint napping. We once we'd napped spearheads
3:17
and arrowheads, we then hafted them into arrows and onto spear
3:21
shafts which was good fun. And on the second day, because
3:26
it was just a 2 day course, we had an introduction to survival
3:30
bow making and it just scratched an itch that I didn't really
3:34
know I had. So I've always been very
3:36
creative and come from a very creative family.
3:40
My mum and my sister are artists, my brother is a graphic
3:43
designer. So we've always had that thing
3:46
with working with our hands. And I, I was taught the basics
3:52
of, I think I made AI made like a Greenwood bow out of Hazel,
3:56
which was very, you know, it was a bit janky and a bit rough.
4:00
And I used AI used a hatchet and my survival knife and a bit of
4:04
paracord and kind of cobbled this maybe in a sort of 5 1/2
4:08
foot bow together. But it worked.
4:11
And once I had once I'd been taught the basics of Tillering,
4:15
then then I was like, oh, now I understand how bows are made.
4:20
And you, because you can look at things before you're taught and
4:23
think how on earth do you even get to this place that that
4:26
you've, you know, that you can have this functional thing.
4:29
But yeah, once I was tall, taught the very basics and I
4:34
turned out a bow that it could at least shoot an arrow.
4:36
It wasn't very good because it was obviously just a Greenwood
4:40
Hazel bow, but it was nice that the instructors of the course,
4:44
they set up a little competition.
4:47
So they had just a straw Bale maybe 2530 feet away and we just
4:52
took turns at doing a bit of target archery.
4:55
And it was, and it was really good fun.
4:57
And I thought, man, there's something in this.
4:59
And there was another guy there who was a little further down
5:03
the road from me in terms of being into bow making and
5:09
archery and, and he had brought along a couple of his bows.
5:14
I think they were Ash. I don't think there's anything
5:16
like you long bows there. But he said, you know, this is,
5:20
this is a really, really good, fun thing, you know, and, and,
5:23
and there's a lot of enjoyment to be had from it.
5:25
And I sort of picked up some of his bows and shot a couple of
5:28
them with his permission. He was.
5:31
And I thought, yeah, I could really get into this.
5:34
And yeah, that's really where it started.
5:37
Yeah. Primitive weapons.
5:40
Yeah. Tell me a bit about the
5:41
bushcraft. What sort of things outside of
5:43
primitive weapons would you make?
5:46
So in terms of bushcraft, when I would run courses, I would do
5:51
things like shelter building, simple sort of a frame brush
5:54
shelters. I would obviously do fire
5:57
lighting, which is the one that a lot of people, a lot of kids
6:00
and adults and everyone in between enjoys doing friction.
6:04
Fire lighting course is part of that.
6:06
Under that same umbrella, I'd do a little bit of a camp cookery,
6:10
sort of basic stuff like that. And oh, I'd also do making
6:16
cordage out of nettles, which was which was really handy.
6:20
And of course was a skill that I could then easily trap fairly
6:23
easily transfer into bow making. Because when it came to making
6:28
the bowstrings, I was like, I've kind of been here before and
6:31
knowing how to lay rope and having to make like a Flemish
6:34
twist and stuff came quite easy to me because I'd had that
6:38
background and things like that. So that's mostly what I would,
6:41
what I would do. And I would go away on a few
6:45
extended bushcraft courses with the bushcraft school that I used
6:50
mostly. And yeah, we've got to go up to
6:53
Scotland for a week on what was called a Wayfarers course in
6:56
skinning squirrels, rabbits, partridges, pheasants and doing
7:02
all this sort of game prep. We built this huge shelter which
7:05
we called the Saxon Lodge and it was this massive great big pine
7:09
built shelter. We only slept in it for about
7:11
two nights because it took so long to build the bloody thing,
7:14
but it was, it took all week to build and then we had two nights
7:18
in it. Constant rain because it was
7:21
November in Scotland. Absolutely freezing, but really
7:24
good. So that's most of the stuff that
7:27
I would do a lot of that kind of thing.
7:29
You can make bowstring out of nettle, right?
7:32
Yeah, you can. Yeah, it's, it's, it always
7:34
surprises me when I, when I read about all the things that people
7:38
make into successful strings that are durable.
7:41
And last. And of course, you know, hemp
7:43
being one that, that we're here in England, that we would, we,
7:46
that we used a lot. But of course silk, you know,
7:48
and when I was young, I never really realised that silk would
7:51
have that tensile strength. But of course, if you lay it,
7:55
you know, into a, into a decent thickness, then of course it's
7:58
going to have that, that strength.
8:00
And yeah, yeah, you can make it out of nettles and have the
8:02
various cordage. Yeah, and flight shooting linen
8:05
is commonly used. Yeah, yeah.
8:07
Linen. Yeah, absolutely.
8:09
Yeah. So I love nettle.
8:13
How do you work with nettle and not get stung?
8:17
How do I work with Nettle? Are there tricks to doing it or
8:22
you get stuck? Yeah, well, there's that
8:24
expression, isn't there? Graft the nettle.
8:26
It's essentially you go in, go in and you grab it and you run
8:32
your hand up it and you take all the side leaves off and it
8:34
should be OK. But I've had varying success
8:36
with that, to be honest, Todd, when it when it came to
8:39
harvesting nettles for making cordage, just a pair of gloves
8:42
used to help 9 times out of 10, yeah, you can doubt really just
8:47
went, oh, not all that, you know, grasping the Nestle.
8:50
I think I'll just Don a pair of leather gloves and go in that
8:52
way. It's good medicine if he gets
8:54
stung a few times. Yeah, it is.
8:56
It is. So then the belt bow craft once
8:59
you once you carve that first Hazel bow, which by the way, do
9:01
you have it That's still. Don't you have the Hazel bow?
9:07
I do have a bow that I made not long after that, which was a
9:13
kind of half seasoned ash bow that I made out of a sapling.
9:17
Yeah, but I haven't got my no, I don't know where that is now.
9:19
It's gone back to the earth, which is OK, you know.
9:24
So when you started to get into this more seriously, did you
9:29
just learn on your own or did you have other teachers how to
9:33
how to become more of an occupation for you?
9:36
So after, after my introduction to bow making through the
9:42
primitive weapons course, I did a lot of teaching myself.
9:48
And there's a lot of, of course, especially nowadays, there's a
9:50
lot of really good literature out there, a lot of a lot of
9:56
American bow makers books. Just having a knot in my
9:59
bookshop over there, which I found really, really handy.
10:03
Guys, I'm sure you've heard of Clay Hayes.
10:07
Yeah. So Clay's book.
10:09
Fantastic. Another American maker called
10:11
John Riggs. Yeah, yeah, he's based out in
10:15
California, I think. And he's, yeah, he was his was
10:18
the first book that I bought, I think.
10:21
Yeah. And then lots of online
10:22
resources and just to I'm quite a, I'm quite the autodidact, so
10:28
I don't find it difficult to self teach.
10:31
It's never really been a huge obstacle to me.
10:35
And like I said, with the with the primitive weapons course, I
10:40
had that foundation and I had the basic understanding of
10:44
tailoring and everything. And then a lot of online
10:47
resources and a lot of literature that I read really
10:50
clicked into place. And then obviously going to a
10:53
work, to a workshop and putting it into practice.
10:57
I managed to dial it in mostly on my own mostly.
11:01
I mean, there's definitely things that I've picked up from
11:04
people, but I didn't necessarily go on like some, you know, five
11:08
day sort of war bow class, which I quite fancy even now, But I
11:12
didn't, I didn't find that I I needed to do that so much, at
11:15
least to begin with. So is this a career for you now
11:19
making boss? Budding, budding I I do wish it
11:22
were. It was so, yeah.
11:25
So I've got more of a, more of an online presence now than I
11:29
ever did, but I certainly, I get a, a real kick and a real love
11:35
of doing craft shows. So anything local or even
11:40
further afield that I can attend that accommodates the sort of
11:43
things that I make, I love to go and attend those.
11:47
They're usually 2-3 day event things and I can pack up all my
11:53
stuff into my car. Got like a big sort of marquee
11:57
and all my stock and everything else that I make.
12:01
So along with the bows I make back in hip leather, quivers,
12:08
calico lined, I love to do all that as well.
12:11
Shooting gloves, bow gloves, calico, Longbow bags, braces,
12:15
arm braces. So it's a nice sort of umbrella
12:19
of skills that sit under archery and Bowery because of course all
12:23
those things are what you need in order to shoot the bows.
12:26
So, yeah, so I've got a growing online presence, but not quite
12:31
enough to make it full time, although that is that is the
12:33
goal. So I have my bread and butter
12:36
work that pays the pays the rent in the bills and then I've got
12:39
enough free time because I only need to work part time in that
12:43
job in order to dedicate the rest of it to the bow making
12:46
side of things. And what is that part time job?
12:50
Bicycle mechanic, that's what. That's my trade, yeah.
12:54
So once again it's kind of highlights.
12:56
I've got a, I guess leaning towards practical hands on
13:04
disciplines. That's something that I really,
13:07
really enjoy. I've been doing that for about,
13:10
I don't know, 15 years now. And yeah, so it wasn't, it's,
13:15
it's becoming a bow maker and working with a lot of hand tools
13:19
and going through that kind of process of making a bow is
13:23
different, but it's standing over something with your hands.
13:26
And if I'm trying to fix bicycles, it's not quite the
13:29
same, but there is that trying to transform something with your
13:33
hands, if that makes any sense. And how?
13:37
How has the surgeons of E bikes affected your bicycle mechanic?
13:43
Made it a lot more frustrating, but because essentially what
13:47
when I first got into it, E bikes weren't really on on the
13:52
market. And what I loved about bicycles
13:55
and cycling is that there's a real beauty in the simplicity of
13:59
the machine. A total human powered machine
14:03
that requires no electronics. And they didn't change for a
14:07
very long time too, right? It was the same basic things.
14:10
Absolutely, Todd, this is it. We're talking about, you know, a
14:12
technology that goes way back. You know, if you go right back
14:15
to the origins, you're looking at the 18th century.
14:17
But of course it's refined more in the, in the, you know, in
14:21
the, in the 19th and 20th. But that was one of the things
14:25
that I loved was the simplicity of it, which meant that it was
14:29
once I was accredited and trained, made it very
14:32
predictable and easy, easy to work on.
14:36
But when they started to electrify things, oh, then
14:38
you're talking about fault finding.
14:40
You're talking about getting out your little, you know, sort of
14:45
voltmeter to try and find where the faults is.
14:47
You're talking about lithium cells.
14:49
And you're talking about things that I never had any and still
14:51
don't have any interest in when it comes to bikes.
14:54
But you've got to revolve or die, as they say, in this world.
14:57
To a certain extent, yeah. And so the leather work, when
15:03
did that start? Was that pre bow craft or after
15:06
he started making bows? That, that's a good question.
15:10
That was more or less, more or less hand in hand.
15:14
So like I said, I've got, I come from quite a quite, quite an
15:18
artistic family. So by that I I always found it
15:24
attractive and quite easy to to, to move into different things
15:28
that I thought would be interesting in terms of
15:30
crafting. And of course, with bow Yuri,
15:34
it's just hand in glove with all the accessories that go with it.
15:37
So like I mentioned, making hip quivers, making back quivers,
15:44
arm braces, shooting gloves, bow gloves, calico Longbow bags,
15:47
which sell quite well, those things.
15:50
It just kind of made sense. And if I was going to, like I
15:54
mentioned, go to craft shows, attend, knows I cannot just be
15:59
the one guy with the stand with bows behind him and saying
16:01
here's my bows, but I can fill it out with all this stuff,
16:05
extra stuff. But yeah, it would be just me on
16:08
my own. It's quite an investment in
16:09
labor. I'm really churning out some of
16:11
those things. I couldn't tell you how many
16:13
rivets I've set in my time. Oh, God.
16:16
I've got a mechanical rivet setting, which is a great tool.
16:19
But Oh my gosh, it's just, you know, crank, crank hours and
16:25
hours. It's great to have that blending
16:28
of being able to do all the leather with the bow, bow work
16:31
and it's something now I'm more interested in.
16:34
But I have only only done a bit. Especially on this journey of
16:38
project where we're making bows with different bowyers.
16:41
I've picked up a bit of leather work on the way.
16:42
But yeah, I want to, I want to get into it more.
16:45
Where do you get your leather from?
16:48
I buy my leather from a merchant who's based in Spain.
16:51
So I find Spanish full grain leather to be of a very good
16:56
quality and which which it's known for.
17:00
So there's a merchant which sells the whole side of a cow.
17:05
Huge, great big. Well, as you can imagine, this
17:07
great big tanned half a cow which lasts me quite a while.
17:11
I can get quite a lot of quivers and and braces out of that.
17:15
And you consider a bracer as probably this much material just
17:18
to wrap around your forearm quivers, you know, maybe this
17:21
sort of, I've got molds and patterns that I obviously score
17:24
around and it doesn't take up too much leather.
17:27
But yeah, I find that I find the Spanish leather to be leather to
17:30
be to be good stuff. And do you turn any of your own
17:33
leather? No, I'd love to, I'd love to get
17:36
into that. But I it's, it's a bit of an
17:41
investment in terms of it's usually space with things like
17:44
that. You know, I've got enough space
17:46
to make bows, but if I start having some tannery hanging out
17:48
the back of my house, I don't know.
17:49
I don't know whether the neighbors would like it.
17:52
But yeah, no, I haven't, I haven't ever got, got got into
17:55
that. I quite fancy it though.
17:58
Yeah. And are you still doing Flint
17:59
knapping? You said you learned a little
18:00
bit in your your primitive weapons course.
18:03
Yeah, I did. Yeah.
18:05
I, I had a quite a resurgence of it in terms of interest around
18:11
20/17/2018 because I remember where I was living at the time.
18:14
I was sat in the garage and I was determined to, to use, to
18:21
practice on. I don't know whether you've ever
18:23
heard of this, but beer bottle ends the bottom of them.
18:27
You tap them out, they, they're really good to, to practice on,
18:30
to nap into arrowheads. And yeah, I had varying success
18:34
and I've got some Flint, some Flint heads.
18:36
But yeah, once, once again, it's, I've been taught the
18:41
taught the, the actual methodology of, of Flynn
18:45
napping. So once you've got that
18:47
knowledge, really it's like everything is like practice.
18:49
Then yeah, yeah. I tend to just buy metal piles
18:53
and put them onto arrows. And then just yeah, at least for
18:57
the for the for the moment anyway.
18:59
So tell me more about your boss. What style do you like to carve?
19:03
Actually, what is your first of all?
19:04
What is your business name? It's Devonshire longbows.
19:08
OK, well, I guess that that implicates the style that you
19:11
like to carve. You like to carve some longbows.
19:13
Are these English longbows or? No, this is where it's where
19:20
it's interesting. In England, a Longbow
19:24
officially, so I've read officially really should
19:30
indicate the like AU rounded belly, English Longbow.
19:34
Cowhorn knocked as you can call crazy, those kind of bows that
19:38
we use historically and they understand that in America it's
19:43
more of a, it's more of a catch term.
19:46
So you could include flat bows in there as well as rounded
19:50
belly as well as. So I tend to go with the
19:54
American sort of identification of a Longbow.
20:00
Because I make, I do make a few rounded belly bows, but I really
20:04
do like flat bows. I like the, I do like a lot of,
20:08
a lot of American bow years. I really admire their, their
20:15
flat bow design. And I 9 times out of 10 use that
20:20
as a, as a design because that's really where I found most
20:24
success. And I really like the aesthetics
20:26
of flat bows as well. I like that wide limb coming out
20:30
from the handle. And in terms of in terms of the
20:36
aesthetics, it's, there's a lot of beauty in utility for me.
20:42
So like an English Longbow, there's not really anything on
20:47
it that's particularly fancy. You could argue that the knocks
20:49
are carved in quite a nice fashion, but really it's just a
20:52
rounded belly, long stave. It's called not any handle wrap
20:56
on it. Nothing that any, nothing that
20:58
particularly differentiates the handle.
21:01
It's just that smooth transition straight into the upper and
21:03
lower limbs. And, and I like that.
21:07
And I find with my designs really, really what it's the
21:13
it's the utility that shapes the design and it kind of results in
21:17
a sort of natural unforced style.
21:20
So as much as I like things like like fantasy and sword and
21:24
sorcery, and I like things like the bows from Lord of the Rings,
21:28
you're never probably going to get me making something like
21:30
that because it's a very fancy take on that design.
21:34
Whereas I find more of a simple design is more of an attractive
21:40
thing for me because it's the utility of it.
21:41
This doesn't have to be too fancy, but that's a bit.
21:44
That being said, I do use different composites and that
21:48
results in a, in a nice contrast of woods, as you can probably
21:50
see from the the recurve up there, she's got this American
21:56
black walnut riser on it. But on the whole, yeah, those,
22:01
those are the types of bozo that I make.
22:03
And you find that whatever it is you do, if you're a Potter or an
22:06
artist, you know, you make shoes, you make clothes, you'll
22:09
find that you, your, your aesthetic will mean that you'll
22:13
settle into a design that is you.
22:15
And I guess that's where people have their signature thing, you
22:18
know? And it's like, oh, that bow
22:20
looks very much like a Joe Gibbs bow.
22:23
That bow looks very much like a clay haze bow.
22:25
That because really, it's what they find appealing that ends up
22:30
in the design. At least speaking for myself,
22:32
anyway. Yeah.
22:35
And you mentioned the design is more influenced from North
22:38
American flat bows. Or are you also doing like the
22:41
Home Guard and the Malaga bed and European ancient Neolithic
22:44
bows and whatnot? Yeah, I do have an interest in
22:47
those in those European bows, sort of like Northern European
22:50
bows. But really I do, I do like the
22:53
like the Native American style of bow.
22:57
And those are probably a little shorter than what what what I
23:00
make. But like I said, I find a lot of
23:03
a lot of products made by by the American bowyers just really
23:08
appeals to my to my sense of style.
23:11
I really like that flat bow style.
23:13
I don't know what it is. It's just something about that
23:15
nice, that broad, that broad limb at the fades.
23:19
I particularly like on on a flat bow and you have that nice kind
23:22
of like 1 inch, 4 inch handle and then it goes out to a nice
23:26
wide 2 inch fade. I like that.
23:29
I think it's a really nice style and it makes for a very
23:32
practical and and a very repeatable bow, if that makes
23:35
sense. So when I'm there with my drawer
23:37
knife and my Jack planes and my block planes and I'm scraping
23:41
away and my farriers rasp, I I like working to that to that box
23:45
dimension. If you like the for that profile
23:48
of the limbs. And also I think I heard that it
23:53
was made scientifically proven that how true this is that the
23:57
the the flat bow profile is the most efficient and strongest
24:02
profile for a for a bow who would to be continuously bent
24:07
and put under tension and compression.
24:09
The forces are more evenly distributed and are less wearing
24:16
on on the bow with a flat bow design.
24:17
So if that is the case, then that's always need to know that
24:21
it helps with the durability of the product.
24:23
Yeah, you mentioned a handful of tools.
24:25
Are you only using hand tools or do you use machines as well?
24:28
No, I, I only use hand tools. So I buy my stock from from a
24:35
merchant up in a place called Staffordshire in the north of
24:37
England, Well, in the, in the, in the Midlands.
24:40
And yeah, it'll, it'll arrive. So I will, I will cut the stock
24:48
on a table saw. So, but in terms of then taking
24:51
the stock and taking it and making it into a bow from start
24:54
to finish, yeah, it's all, it's all, it's all handled.
24:57
So that's roughing out with, with a, with a draw knife.
25:03
And then, yeah, all sorts of things, Jack planes, block
25:08
planes. I use farriers.
25:10
Rasps are really handy tools I find for for for bow making.
25:14
Once again, all stuff that I learned in books from Clay Hayes
25:17
and John Riggs and other mostly American bowriers.
25:20
And yeah. And then it's just, it takes
25:23
longer, but I like, I like the, I like this the, the, the human
25:30
speed, if that makes sense. So when things are made on a
25:33
machine, obviously it expedites the job so much quicker.
25:36
But I like to work at that human hand tool speed, just one,
25:42
because I, I tend to foster more of a more of a sort of bond
25:47
with, with the bow that I'm making.
25:50
And also, there's a much more gracious margin to error.
25:56
So if you slip on a band, so you're going to find you've
25:59
probably gone too deep too quick, you know?
26:03
But when you little slip with the draw knife, you can go hang
26:06
on. Then you can just catch it
26:07
before it really starts to tear in.
26:10
Yeah. And but then, of course, the
26:11
more you make bows, the less of those mistakes are made.
26:15
But I do like that slowed down process.
26:18
And also that's the way my ancestors would have made bows,
26:21
you know? So I like that.
26:22
That's that sort of connection there.
26:25
What kind of wood do you like working with?
26:27
So in terms of species, I'm a big fan of Hickory, which of
26:33
course is very popular in your neck of the woods, not so much
26:37
here. So all of my hickory's imported
26:41
from North America and I love it.
26:44
I find it just a lovely wood. It's obviously very tough.
26:48
Most people who don't really know anything about bone making
26:50
will think of tool handles, of course.
26:53
And, and it's just a wonderful word.
26:55
I really like how you don't have to be so conscious of the of,
27:03
of, of the straight grain. Obviously with some species you
27:05
want to look at a, a stock stave site down from one end to the
27:09
other and you really don't want too much runoff.
27:12
So, but with Hickory, you don't have to consider that as much.
27:16
And it's just a really dense word.
27:19
And I love that light blonde look of the wood as well.
27:24
And yeah, it's tough to work with, but it makes really,
27:27
really great bows. And I've turned out some, some
27:31
some nice bows with Hickory lemon wood from Mesoamerica,
27:37
from those countries around. There is once again, very
27:40
popular wood that a lot of bowyers use.
27:42
And I myself like it. Very easy to work, very
27:45
forgiving. Does it tear out?
27:47
That's one of the things that Hickory will drive you up the
27:50
wall where you can, no matter how sharp.
27:52
I get my plane blades on a Japanese whetstone and then, you
27:56
know, I got absolutely razor sharp.
27:58
And then Hickory just has this tendency, this kind of lift and
28:02
tear out bits of the grain. Then you end up with a bit of a
28:05
divot that you don't have to sand down to that level.
28:08
So it can be tough and lemon wood doesn't doesn't have that
28:12
problem. It's it's a really nice
28:14
compliant with to work within very, very dense grain and a
28:18
kind of lovely sort of dark orangey color, which is nice,
28:21
especially when you contrast it with with like a like a Hickory
28:24
laminate or something. I'm so excited about lemon wood.
28:27
It's I'm in Costa Rica and there's a lot of lemon wood
28:30
growing here. So that's what right I'm, I'm
28:32
going to be harvesting soon. I'm building a workshop right
28:35
now and then soon as that's really then I'll be harvesting
28:37
some lemon wood. What shapes does lemon wood take
28:41
too? Well, flat bills I'm presuming,
28:43
but can you also do other shapes?
28:46
Yeah, you could. I, I've, I've mostly made flat
28:50
bows from it. Like I said, that's really my
28:51
sort of bread and butter design. I'm not too sure how well it
28:56
would take with a rounded belly. I know that Hickory is quite
28:59
weak in compression, certainly in relation to its to its
29:04
tensile strength. So when I've said, oh you know,
29:07
what about like a rounded belly on 4 ends people?
29:09
No, no, no, no, damn, no, you can't go doing that because it
29:11
will just develop crystals and stress fractures and you'll end
29:15
up with a very poor bow. So yeah, I, I haven't made any
29:20
rounded bellied bows from lemon wood, but I find it a very, very
29:24
good wood to to heat band as well.
29:27
Once again, very compliant. And you can really, you know,
29:30
you can really pull it into some quite tight curves and clamp it
29:34
on with bar clamps. And, and it doesn't, it doesn't
29:37
complain. It doesn't delaminate the way
29:39
something that's quite open grained like red oak wood, which
29:43
I, which I do use as well, mostly historical bows that I've
29:47
made, as in bows I made many years ago, because it's a good
29:50
starter wood, red oak, quite easily accessible from lots of
29:54
merchants. And but heat bending it, it
29:56
doesn't like it in instance to lift off Christ, you know.
30:01
So what the lemon wood are you using?
30:02
SAP, wood and hardwood. I am just using hardwood.
30:07
Just hardwood. Yeah, just the deep orange
30:10
hardwood and I'm quite a fan of laminating my lemon wood bows
30:16
with Hickory. So Hickory, as you know, we've
30:19
just sort of touched on excellent, intense are
30:22
incredible. I've demonstrated to people I've
30:25
I've planned down a hand, planed down a maybe like a 2 eighths
30:31
inch thick strip of Hickory and I've taken that and I've pulled
30:34
it end to end and people go, Oh my God, it's like plastic.
30:37
I said, yeah, it's like nature's PVC Hickory, wonderful word.
30:41
So that I usually marry to a lemon wood stave.
30:50
So then I'll have that lovely white sort of blonde Hickory
30:55
laminate and that deep orange. But I find you're then matching
30:58
the strength of compression in lemon wood to the strength, the
31:01
tensile strength of the laminate, which is Hickory.
31:04
OK, so lemon wood's not as good under attention.
31:08
I, I'm not too sure whether it's particularly bad on detention.
31:14
It's just that I know that Hickory is very good on
31:17
detention. So I'm taking the strength of
31:19
that word right and marrying it just to make a more, a more
31:23
powerful bow because I can then marry it, take those two
31:26
strengths and then glue them together and make a nice bow.
31:30
That way and so I haven't cut down any lemonade yet.
31:34
So I haven't seen the sapwood. How thick is the sapwood?
31:39
I tend to get my lengths. Without that one.
31:42
Yeah, yeah. So as you can imagine, there's
31:45
not too many lemon wood trees growing in southern England,
31:49
which there was. They're quite a large tree,
31:52
aren't they? They get to quite a size.
31:53
Is that right? They vary quite a bit.
31:57
Right outside I'm looking at one that's probably 14 inches in
32:01
diameter. On the other side of my place, I
32:04
have one that's probably 18 inches, but then I've seen some
32:08
pretty big ones that are several feet in diameter.
32:12
But also like I don't know if they've been if the forests have
32:16
been cut down around here or the jungle, because most of the ones
32:20
that I'm finding here are fairly small, probably 12 inches and
32:24
under. But they grow pretty tall.
32:27
So they have a, a pretty robust canopy, a lot of foliage, a lot
32:33
of wildlife lives in them. So I'm trying to be very
32:36
selective because I don't want to be cutting down bird nests
32:38
and whatnot. So, but yeah, so I'm just
32:41
scouting right now and I only recently learned how to identify
32:46
them because I, I was, wasn't aware of what this particular
32:50
tree was. And then when someone told me, I
32:52
was like, that's the, that's the tree I'm looking for.
32:54
And now I see now I can find them everywhere.
32:58
So yeah, I don't know much about it.
33:00
Oh, sorry. What's that?
33:01
I was just going to say sorry to butt in, but it it's of course,
33:04
it's got quite a confusing name because people say, oh, like a
33:07
lemon tree. You like not a lemon tree, no.
33:09
Exactly. Yeah.
33:10
So when I I first started looking here in Costa Rica, I
33:13
was asking for a lemon wood and no, it didn't work.
33:16
So here it's called either degamme or salomo.
33:19
I've heard of degamme. I've heard that that's a a local
33:23
word for it, yeah. Yeah.
33:25
And I think Costa Rica more local is Salomo, but in in
33:30
Nicaragua, it's the national tree and there it's Arizona's, I
33:35
believe Arizona's deggummy. But anyway, it's protected
33:37
because it's the national tree in Nicaragua, but it doesn't
33:42
seem to have the same distinction here.
33:43
It's, it's actually not like a very the bark of it is it kind
33:49
of reminds me of a Yew Tree really, the way it kind of
33:53
almost looks like it has like a, a skin disease, so to speak.
33:56
And it's very like very flaky sort of.
34:00
But yeah, I'm I'm excited to season some and start working on
34:05
it, see how it, see how it does. Yeah, Yeah.
34:09
Unfortunately, all we've really got around here that grows in
34:12
real abundance is ash, which makes serviceable bows.
34:19
But you really wouldn't put it on a list of woods to make
34:22
really good bows from. It's not bad.
34:24
It was used for hunting bows in Europe and, and, and here for
34:29
centuries, long, long time. But you wouldn't really consider
34:32
making a really good, durable bow out out of ash.
34:35
Yeah. And.
34:37
You might find some Bowers who argue with that, but yeah, yeah.
34:41
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd seen some really, really
34:43
nice ash bows. Yeah, yeah, My, my first real
34:48
success outside of the course that I went on was like I
34:54
mentioned was it was an ash sapling that I cut down.
34:58
And yeah, I, I've, I've still got it.
35:02
I'm not sure where it is right now, but it's maybe out in the
35:05
garage. But it's, yeah, it's a real ropy
35:08
old thing and it's kind of twisted limbs.
35:10
But do you know what it's still, it's still tillered and it still
35:13
shits, but my God, it looks horrendous.
35:16
Looks like I was like a like a blind Bowie out of go at making
35:20
a bow. You know, it's quite, it's quite
35:22
rough. But yeah, it does prove that,
35:24
that, you know, it's still going.
35:26
And that was a little ash sapling.
35:28
Yeah. So maybe I'm being a bit harsh.
35:29
So you're importing most of your staves?
35:32
Is that what I'm hearing? Yeah, so like I said, because I
35:35
like to work with, you know, things like lemon wood and
35:37
Hickory. Where do you get the lemon wood
35:39
from Cuba? Or where else in.
35:43
Central America. I didn't.
35:45
Yeah, I did make sure that that the that the merchant was
35:49
ethical because I'm the last thing I would want absolutely
35:53
was to be making bows out of, you know, virgin rainforest.
35:57
God, I hope that's not the case. But it says on their website
35:59
that they're ethical. It's all it's all farmed and
36:01
sourced and I'm like, OK, so, yeah.
36:05
So mostly stuff from North America and yeah, white Maple
36:10
once again, another American species is I think was that what
36:13
you call hard Maple in America? Is that a?
36:16
I'm not a Maple answer, there's so many kinds of maples.
36:19
Yeah, Sugar Maples, another one isn't.
36:23
It. Yeah, yeah.
36:24
But this is definitely like a like a white Maple, similar
36:27
colour to Hickory with really lovely, very definite ring
36:33
patterns, grain patterns going all the way up and it makes
36:36
really nice flat bows. I've made some really lovely
36:39
those with white, white Maple and.
36:41
I was speaking at the Bowyer recently.
36:43
I think they were using Norway Maple.
36:46
Oh, OK. I don't know.
36:47
Yeah, yeah, I've not had any experience.
36:50
I mean, there's so, so much out there.
36:51
And of course people will tend to, if they're going to go out
36:55
and source the width and they're going to be using whatever's
36:57
local to them, and that can be as varied as anything.
37:00
Yeah. So are you, do you have like
37:02
physical stores that you can walk into and buy this stuff or
37:05
are you ordering from people who are importing at it?
37:09
I am buying mine from timber merchants, so businesses that
37:14
are whole wholesalers essentially, that have great
37:17
stacks of wood from all over the world, you know, or meat like
37:21
African Alphazalia and babinga and lemon wood and Hickory and
37:26
bamboo and great piles of the stuff.
37:28
And you just go in and say, yeah, I love that piece.
37:30
It's so far gone into those places, isn't it?
37:33
Yeah, yeah, it's great. Wow.
37:35
Yeah, it's brilliant. I love it.
37:37
It's it's it's like, it's just yeah, it's wonderful.
37:40
But it's it's quite sobering when you go to the checkout
37:43
because my God, wood is expensive.
37:45
On some of them, I've looked at some pieces like, well, that'd
37:48
be beautiful and done the math and it's like, wow, just like
37:51
the wood for this bow is going to be like $700.
37:54
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've, I think the most
37:56
expensive, I've always probably lemon wood staves.
37:59
They are for maybe an 80 inch by three inch.
38:05
It's going to cost me getting on somewhere probably over 300 lbs.
38:09
So maybe knocking on for $500 or something or thereabouts, you
38:13
know? Provide you with some cheaper
38:15
lemon wood at some point here, yeah?
38:17
Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah, but this is the thing in,
38:22
but I do find that, you know, that that's quite a thick stave,
38:25
at least for the pose that I make.
38:26
So I can get a few out of that, you know, at least two, maybe
38:32
even 3 depending if I make a, a thinner bow.
38:35
And then when I sell them, then I make that back, obviously so,
38:39
but it's, it's a very expensive commodity nowadays, isn't it?
38:42
Yeah. And are these stores selling
38:43
them as raw lumber or are they cut down on the boards
38:48
variation? You can buy it in both, but
38:52
mostly it's cut down into boards and kiln dried.
38:55
The classic timber that you buy, but but of a of a of a good
39:01
quality. And the the merchant that I use
39:04
is the only merchant that I've come across to date that has a
39:09
has a dedicated Longbow section. It has, it has like bow makers
39:14
wood, which I think is great because you've got different
39:17
sections and here's for the guitar makers, here's for the
39:20
luthiers, furniture makers, here's for the this and that and
39:23
here's for the bow makers. And I'm like, well, that's
39:25
pretty good because there's not many of you out there that are
39:28
having a have dedicated sections for bow makers.
39:32
And it's good because it obviously shows that they must
39:34
have put in a bit of research into the stock that they sold to
39:37
know what was what was good wood.
39:40
But there's they've they chop and change it a bit, which is
39:45
good depending on the availability.
39:47
And recently they've got a load of Orange Osage, which I'm like,
39:51
oh, that'd be nice to have because I know that's along up
39:53
there with the English U or Alpine U, whichever you used to
39:57
use. Orange Osage is absolutely like
39:59
king of bow woods, You know, especially in North North
40:02
America. It's just really sort of
40:05
unbeaten really, isn't it? It makes fantastic bows.
40:08
Are you? Yeah, no, it makes fantastic
40:10
bows. Without a doubt.
40:11
There are some people are going to say Pacific U is better.
40:13
Some people will say Osage Orange is better.
40:15
Yeah, yeah. That's true.
40:17
That's true. Actually, that's a good point.
40:19
I've just forgotten, of course, that you've got the Pacific U.
40:21
Yeah, we got an abundance of U in the Northwest, so.
40:24
Yeah, that's great. This is what this is the the the
40:27
thing here in England, of course, historically we chopped
40:29
all our U forests down and any of EU that you'd find now
40:33
English U taxes is is going to be.
40:38
Protected right? Yeah.
40:39
It's going to have like preservation orders on them.
40:42
Yeah. And.
40:42
And a lot of them are old, old, old, old.
40:45
Like thousands. Of.
40:46
Them much years old, aren't they?
40:48
Absolutely. Yeah, Some of them, yeah.
40:50
Twelve, 1500 years old. It's amazing.
40:53
And of course, the last thing I would ever want to do is to
40:54
touch. A tree like that?
40:55
No. No.
40:56
But it's. In our travels, when we were
41:00
interviewing all the Bowyers for our book, we were, my daughter
41:03
and I were in a lot of European countries and there's a an
41:07
abundance of you. But like in Austria, it's
41:10
protected. You can't do it.
41:13
But everywhere we went, like especially in cities, like in
41:15
Salzburg, we went to Saint Golan in Switzerland.
41:18
And just some big, old beautiful use.
41:20
Lots of them. Lots of.
41:22
Yeah. Yeah, it's, at least in my
41:25
experience, it's not, it's not the easiest to come across.
41:28
I mean, I've tried looking in the right places, but a lot of
41:30
people that turn out, a lot of you war bows.
41:33
I think the first question is like, where are you?
41:35
Where are you from? I think you just have to find
41:38
probably word of mouth. But there's lots of wood
41:41
merchants that do not sell wood used stays.
41:44
They may sell, you know, like raw edged pieces of you to make
41:48
into a coffee table, things like that.
41:50
Of course, totally useless bow making.
41:52
But in terms of use stays for the purpose of making like a war
41:56
bow, yes few and far between. I mean people are doing it and
41:59
I'm like where are you getting all your U from?
42:02
Well, it's really sad too, because in the northwest, U is
42:07
definitely not protected and it's not the opposite.
42:10
No, no, it's civic. U is not considered a lumber
42:14
wood. And so we still have the
42:17
practices of of just our deforestation practices are
42:22
literally just like cut down an entire mountainside.
42:25
And so I was with Jamie McDonald, a Raven, big bows, who
42:28
makes beautiful English long bows exclusively from Pacific U.
42:32
He's got an incredible stock at Pacific U, but he took us into
42:35
the forest around his home and literally its entire
42:41
mountainsides are being wiped out.
42:42
And they want the cedar and they want the fur.
42:44
And EU just gets pummeled into the earth broken like as the big
42:48
machines drive over. So he took us to see like when
42:51
he was, I'll show you one of my favorite tracks of yew trees.
42:54
And we got there and the machines were taking them like
42:57
crushing them. While we as you were there.
42:59
Yeah, yeah. It was like we were taking
43:01
pictures of carnage of just these little yew trees.
43:04
Literally. There is one picture with
43:06
massive fur logs probably 20 meters long.
43:14
Some of them are meter and diameter stacked up into this
43:17
big pyramid of logs. And there was this one Yew Tree
43:20
that was growing like up through the cracks and out of out of the
43:24
log pile. And it was just everything
43:25
around that was just absolute devastation.
43:28
Yeah, it's really sad. So an abundance of Pacific you
43:32
to use because it's being just destroyed otherwise, right?
43:36
But it's actually illegal to harvest it too, so.
43:40
Not because. Well, just in Canada.
43:42
I'm speaking specifically because the forests that are
43:46
being deforested are on crown land.
43:49
The crown is a nod back-to-back to your country.
43:52
It still governs Canada and so crown land.
43:55
They only allow the big logging companies to harvest wood.
43:58
They don't allow individuals or artisans to harvest wood.
44:02
And so the big logging companies are all about getting as much
44:06
lumber as they can. So they come in, destroy an
44:08
entire mountainside, destroy the you would.
44:11
And even if you know, like that's being torn down tomorrow,
44:15
can I go harvest that? You you got to do it illegally.
44:19
This is the crazy thing. It's really frustrating.
44:22
Yeah, that's that's, I never knew it was like that.
44:26
I thought I imagined you as a desirable crop as it is maybe
44:32
more in Europe or certainly from people that are like bow makers.
44:35
It's like, yeah, king of woods, really.
44:37
And. Well, what it is like these, I
44:40
think most of these, most of the the lumber companies are they're
44:45
trying to get bored lumber and the yew and the Pacific
44:49
Northwest it's it's a fair bit smaller, very much smaller when
44:54
compared to the fir trees and the cedar trees.
44:56
So a Yew Tree that's 300 years old is gonna be like a tenth of
45:01
the size of a fir tree or a cedar tree that's the same age.
45:04
You can't get many boards out of that where fir, cedar, you can
45:08
get a lot of boards out of that. So I think that's part of it.
45:11
You is like, and when we went through the forest, Jamie was
45:13
shown, it's like, yeah, this you like these yew trees are the
45:16
same age as the fir and the cedar trees.
45:18
And again, the cedar and fir trees were meters and meters in
45:22
diameter and the yew trees were like 10 to 14 inches.
45:26
Like much much different. When it comes to choosing
45:30
species that are going to produce the most yield, then
45:34
yeah. If you stick AU next to a
45:36
Douglas fir, it's like, well, you can't compete because it's
45:39
such a slow growing, long lived tree.
45:41
Like like we were saying, Todd, you know, some of these
45:43
specimens 12115 hundred years old here.
45:46
And you know, Tobias first shoots up, competes with its
45:49
competitor for the light. So it's really straight growing.
45:52
Well, here we are. We forget EU, we've got all the
45:55
fur we need. And like you're saying, Todd, if
45:57
you're going to cut it into long straight boards for floorboards
46:00
and for framing houses, you can't win.
46:04
Which is, yeah, it's just just a shame.
46:07
A real shame. Wow.
46:08
I didn't know it was it was like that.
46:10
Because it's difficult, or more certainly more difficult to come
46:13
across you and source you, at least in my experience here in
46:18
England. I think we'll have a few photos
46:20
in the finished book that when we went to visit Jamie, we took
46:23
some photos of that carnage. I think a few of those photos
46:27
will end up in the book. And that's.
46:28
Yeah, it's, it's pretty sad to see, especially when, as you and
46:32
I know and so many others, it's if you have to take down the
46:38
tree, at least use it. And it's such an such an amazing
46:41
word. But ideally, don't take down the
46:43
tree, you know, selectively harvest what it is that you
46:46
want. You want that for a tree.
46:47
OK, well don't kill everything else within a 50.
46:49
Meter radius. No, this is it.
46:52
This is this is like, well, it's a bit like the Buffalo, isn't
46:55
it? You know, Yeah.
46:56
You kind of take it for its skin and leave a whole animal rotting
46:59
in the Prairie. And you think, my God, that's
47:01
such like such an insult to the animal, you know, and unlike the
47:07
Yew Tree that's, you know, spend all its quiet existence sucking
47:10
up all the nutrients to put into itself to grow, and then it's
47:13
just trampled on the foot, not even not even used as the most
47:17
basic lumber. It's just considered a like a
47:21
just almost like an understory. So just crushed under foot.
47:25
Anything this is this could be so it's could be used, you know,
47:29
entirely by so many craftspeople, a lot of wood
47:33
turners that I know they love you and it's a beautiful wood to
47:37
turn obviously with that contrast in that deep orange
47:40
heartwood and then that blonde sapwood and it's a beautiful you
47:44
can people make all sorts of things which I've seen out of
47:46
you and there you go just knowing that all these trees are
47:49
just getting felled and it's the modern world, isn't it?
47:54
Industrial society at its finest it.
47:56
Is, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's a sad thing.
48:02
You have any family then any kids?
48:05
No, so I've got a long term girlfriend, but we we don't have
48:09
kids. My parents live, like I said, in
48:13
in in my hometown, which is only a few miles away.
48:16
So they're over there and my sister lives in in the next town
48:19
along with my brother-in-law and nephew.
48:22
So it's nice I get to be around my family.
48:24
Quite, quite. Do you have anyone, Do you have
48:26
anyone to share your passion with?
48:27
Anyone who's close to you that's somewhat interested in the
48:31
ballcraft? Well, it's one of those very
48:34
niche things that people, I think most people I've met like
48:39
the idea of archery more than bow Yuri, which I understand
48:44
because it's usually the route to to knowing about bows.
48:47
I mean, everyone obviously obviously knows what bows and
48:49
arrows are, but you don't. Most people go, oh, that looks
48:53
like fun. Could I have a go at shooting
48:55
it, you know, or firing it, as they say.
48:56
And I said shooting a bow. Come on.
48:59
And so like, but with my girlfriend, she's she's shot my
49:04
bows a few times. She's got a nice long garden,
49:08
which is very handy. And yeah, but in terms of
49:13
getting people on board, bow making in the in the new year,
49:16
I'm really going to be pushing bow making courses.
49:19
I think that's a really good thing to offer people.
49:23
A lot of people love it. And once you, I guess once you
49:26
empower people with knowledge in anything, but of course, in this
49:30
case, bow making, and you can turn out this thing which has
49:34
been part of our history for thousands upon thousands of
49:38
years. And you can turn out that thing
49:40
like your ancestors did. And then you can shoot an arrow
49:43
from it. And you made that thing.
49:45
There's a lot of interest for that.
49:47
A lot of interest. So yeah, that's something which
49:50
I'll be starting up in the workshop, starting with just
49:52
one-on-one so as not to overwhelm myself.
49:55
I don't want to be like that teacher that goes into a class
49:59
full of 30 children that are all aging 7 to 9 and I'm like, Oh my
50:03
God, help me. What have I done, you know?
50:08
So have you taught anyone yet? Have I taught?
50:12
No, I haven't. OK.
50:14
No, not only people that have shown an interest when I'm in
50:19
the workshop and then I and then I say, OK, this is how this is
50:22
done. This is how that is done.
50:24
But when I've gone to craft shows I've had, I've had a lot
50:26
of interest from, from the public and people are saying, Oh
50:29
yeah, you know, can you do you offer courses and really keen a
50:32
lot of middle-aged guys maybe that get to a point where I
50:36
don't know, maybe they're approaching retirement and they
50:38
get kind of itchy feet for doing something and they think, oh, I
50:41
can really sink my teeth into that.
50:43
So let's see what happens with that.
50:45
What's your workshop like? So my workshop is actually a
50:49
shared workshop and it's about about a 10 minute walk from
50:53
where I live and it's very nice. It's like an old, yeah, I guess
50:57
it was a stables at 11 point. It's an old brick building,
51:01
very, very long. And it's a great space.
51:03
And I've, I've got my bench and all my, all my tools down there.
51:07
And attached to the workshop is a, is a, is a pottery.
51:10
So it's full of creative people constantly turning out, you
51:15
know, lots of pottery. The kilns are there and I've
51:17
made friends with the Potters. So it's a really good community
51:21
space and yeah. And I've got my, my corner and I
51:26
go down and I'm a key holder so I can just go in and whenever I
51:28
want, sometimes stay late into the evening working on the
51:31
latest project and then it's only 10 minutes down the road.
51:35
And it's it's nice, it's a good space.
51:36
I like having be being in a space that's shared by other
51:40
people. Yeah.
51:41
It's nice to have your own little workshop, but it's also
51:43
nice sometimes to find that, you know, you've got other
51:47
craftspeople around you. You can be quite inspiring as
51:49
well, especially when people go Oh, that's amazing.
51:51
Well, I, when I've tillered a bow and I string it and I look
51:55
at it and they go, oh God, that's great.
51:57
Or when I'm tillering it and they're watching the limbs flex
51:59
and they're just like, oh, that's brilliant.
52:01
And then I'll go and have a chat with them about their pots in
52:03
the pottery. So it sort of feeds in.
52:05
It's nice. Yeah, yeah, it's nice too, to
52:07
have some separation from your home because as most, most
52:12
Bowers, we can get lost in our work.
52:14
And it's like, I'm just going to go for 10 minutes and just work
52:17
on this, this knock and, and then two hours later.
52:21
Very, very, very. 4 hours later. Yeah, it's very, very true,
52:24
Todd. I was, I was in the the workshop
52:27
the other day and the kind of it must have been about knocking on
52:30
for about 6:00 in the evening, which is quite unusual because
52:32
usually I'll spend well, I don't know, but I'll usually leave
52:36
some sometime in the early to mid afternoon.
52:39
And I was just, yeah, working away.
52:41
And, and what you said is it's, it's something which I entirely
52:45
agree with. It's good to be able to step
52:47
away from these, these, these places where we where we craft
52:50
and where we make things. And if you're kind of constantly
52:54
living with around it, it can get a bit fatiguing and you can
52:58
be a bit like, oh, I just want to get away.
52:59
I don't want to look at another bloody bow this week, you know,
53:01
even though it's, but, you know, sometimes it's just a bit, it
53:07
can just be a bit, yeah, a bit sort of overwhelming.
53:09
So it's nice to have that opportunity to be, to be able to
53:13
go and do what I do just a short distance away and not sort of
53:18
have to go in and turn on the lights and it's all dark and
53:20
nobody's there and it's cold. It's usually a bit of activity
53:22
already. So it's nice to have that.
53:24
I think I've struck a good balance there.
53:26
Nice. How long were you carving before
53:29
you started selling those? How long was I?
53:35
So I started selling them. Let's see, where are we, 2025,
53:41
maybe around just under maybe 10 years maybe.
53:48
Yeah. I like, like a lot of people who
53:51
are who are craftspeople. You, you start off by the word
53:54
of mouth and people who work with you, people who know you,
53:57
they go, oh, that's great, I didn't know you made bows.
53:59
And they go away and they go, I quite fancy that.
54:01
And they come back and see you and say, can you make me one of
54:04
those? So in my workplace, in my
54:07
workplace, my, my, it was like the store manager and then the
54:10
shift manager. And then other people would kind
54:12
of go, oh, wow, that's great. You've made these bones.
54:16
Yeah. And then I started more taking,
54:19
taking an online presence more, more seriously.
54:23
So I've got a, I've got an Etsy shop.
54:25
And then. Yeah.
54:26
And in the new year, I'll, I'll start up a dedicated website so
54:31
that I can start to offer both making courses like like I
54:34
mentioned, Todd, so I could do that on there.
54:37
Yeah. And and the craft shows which
54:40
are which are a good pull. They are where I really make
54:42
most of my sales throughout the year.
54:44
And I just I love them. I I love attending craft shows
54:48
and talking about the process as much as I love making them.
54:53
It's I really, really get a get a kick out of it.
54:56
It's great. And of course, when I get good
54:58
custom, it just builds upon itself and it's great fun.
55:02
Really enjoy it. So that's and those are.
55:04
Those are pretty common in England, right?
55:06
Yeah, yeah, we've got them in every county and they vary from
55:12
weekly, sort of like market stalls where you may have people
55:16
who make, you know, cakes and sort of things and food and
55:20
produce like that and sell it off.
55:21
And, oh, you'd have, you know, sort of, you know, all sorts of
55:24
different small cottage industries.
55:27
And then they go up and you may have ones that are like summer
55:31
craft fairs and maybe Christmas craft fairs.
55:34
And then you'll have ones that maybe come around just once a
55:37
year. So there's, there's a city
55:41
called Exeter, which is the main city in Devon, in the county
55:46
where I live. And they have a big summer craft
55:50
show and it's, it's brilliant. So I've been doing that for a
55:55
few years now and they have like brought in big sturdy marquees,
56:01
sort of three by three metre marquees, big scaffold built
56:04
things. So they're, it's, it's, it's
56:05
really good. And yeah.
56:07
And then it's just like you have your sort of open shop frontage
56:10
and I have all my bows and everything on display and it's
56:13
great. And because it's free to attend,
56:14
you get a great footfall from all the people around the city.
56:17
And yeah, I, I love it. And you get to chat with all,
56:20
all sorts of people, students, younger people, kids, moms,
56:24
dads, elderly people, retired people, and every kind of person
56:29
from all around the world. And it's, it's great because
56:31
it's something that is instantly recognized as well.
56:35
It's not so modern or so niche that people go, what's that?
56:38
Everyone looks at a bow and goes, there's a bow and it
56:41
piques people's interest. So that's usually how it goes
56:44
year on year. It's the craft shows.
56:47
Do you go to any specific archery shows?
56:50
Do you have any of those? Yeah, I, I, I don't.
56:54
That's a good question. Make this a good think about.
56:57
Yeah, No, I don't. I, I imagine that there is not.
57:03
There's definitely some. There's some big events like in
57:05
the States like ETAR and Tennessee Classic.
57:10
So they're just like these huge archery Jamboree is for
57:13
traditional and primitive archery.
57:15
So people come and camp on like a large acreage for three or
57:19
four days and they have all sorts of 3D courses and
57:21
competitions and carving bows. Some of them bring in, you know,
57:27
quite a few, 100 people to each of them.
57:30
And then my daughter and I were in Slovenia recently and we went
57:34
to Lake Blett and they have a beautiful castle there.
57:38
And one of the reasons I wanted to go is because online it said
57:41
they had an archery exhibition. Turned out it was a few months
57:45
previous because I believe in May they had a big European, not
57:49
a big one. They had their first archery
57:51
competition permit of archery. And so a lot of bowyers from all
57:55
over Europe came to that. It looked like from what I could
57:57
tell from the the photos and the information so.
58:00
Yeah, we're really. We're thinking about attending
58:02
some of those events. Once we get our book physically
58:04
published, then we'll load the different archery events and.
58:08
Yeah, fantastic. In England you tend to get not
58:13
so much a big Jamboree, which would be dedicated to archery,
58:15
although I wish, I hope that becomes the thing.
58:18
But that's where the North Americans are.
58:19
You're you're very, very good at that.
58:21
You have these big dedicate probably because you've got a
58:23
lot of space as well, but you've got these big shows that are
58:26
very dedicated to one thing and they just you, well,
58:30
everything's on a bit more of a smaller scale here.
58:32
And in terms of archery, what we do have, which is fantastic, is
58:36
you'd have more of like the reenactors and they would be in,
58:40
they would be in, let's say, like, you know, some castle in
58:45
like Monmouth. And they'd all be dressed up in
58:47
their 14th, 15th century garb with their English war bows.
58:52
And that's really great because that taps directly into the
58:54
English historical archery, which is lovely.
58:58
But that tends to be a bit more on a smaller scale.
59:01
And in terms of, yeah, everyone getting together, we do.
59:04
I did attend a, a, a bushcraft show.
59:08
It was like a bushcraft and outdoor show.
59:09
And it was the first that I had that I was aware of that that
59:13
was taking place in Devon, just in the next town along where
59:17
where I live. And it was a brilliant success
59:19
and it was really great. And I hope the guy does it again
59:22
next year. But it was brilliant.
59:24
I've got a lot of interest in that.
59:25
And maybe that's, you know, something that that I would hope
59:30
to see more of. And there are more of these
59:32
things that are around in England, bushcraft shows,
59:35
outdoor shows. So lots of bushcraft instructors
59:38
and people selling knives and all things like that.
59:41
Yeah, usually. Very cool.
59:45
It's a fascinating world, I know.
59:48
Those. Of us who are in it are fully
59:50
lost and immersed and most people don't understand at all
59:53
but. But so I was just going to say I
59:57
I've I've not met anyone who pulled up, pulled a face.
1:00:02
Like what? Why do you do that?
1:00:04
Most people are like, wow, that's really interesting.
1:00:06
Tell me more. Yeah, this is you do it, isn't
1:00:08
it, Todd? Yeah, and I teach archery here
1:00:10
in Costa Rica and I just had a guy come over 2 days ago.
1:00:13
He hasn't shot a bow since. He was in, like, typical camp
1:00:17
when he was a kid, and by the end, nobody wanted to buy one of
1:00:21
my bows. It's just something that I get,
1:00:24
really. And other people I have come,
1:00:26
like, can you please teach me how to make a bow, which is one
1:00:28
of the reasons I'm making a workshop.
1:00:30
So yeah. Brilliant.
1:00:31
Good to hear a lot of people are really drawn to it.
1:00:34
And so it's they are, they are. It's fascinating.
1:00:37
It really is. It's it's one of those things
1:00:40
that I guess it's deceptively simple.
1:00:43
People say, oh, well then you just bend.
1:00:45
It's like, no, you don't just bend a piece of wood when you
1:00:47
were young and you run around the garden and you've had some
1:00:49
bamboo canes. Well then yeah, you can do that.
1:00:52
But that's not really people do think that.
1:00:54
They say, well, don't you just kind of bend the wood into like
1:00:58
shape? And I've had people ask me, so
1:01:00
do you, do you steam the limbs? And I'm like, no, you don't know
1:01:05
the tips to make Rico. They're looking at me like I'm
1:01:08
speaking Chinese. And I have to explain to them
1:01:10
that it's the tension inside that when they go, oh, yes, of
1:01:13
course. It's like stored energy.
1:01:15
And I'm like, yeah, that's it. Yeah.
1:01:17
But it's. Yeah, it does fascinate people.
1:01:19
And it's nice to be a part of a yeah, of a real yeah,
1:01:22
enthusiastic community of film makers.
1:01:25
Yeah, it's good stuff. Well, thanks for the chat today,
1:01:28
Dan. Can you let the listeners know
1:01:29
where they can find out more about you?
1:01:32
Yeah, so if you Google Devilish Longbows then you can find my
1:01:38
Etsy shop on on there. Oh, I'm also on Instagram under
1:01:43
Devilish Longbows again. And yeah, those are the 2 main
1:01:47
places. And a website's coming in the
1:01:50
new year. Website will be coming in the
1:01:52
new year and I'll be sure to update that on my Instagram
1:01:55
page, of course. Yeah.
1:01:57
And there'll be both making courses available in the new
1:02:00
year to those that are wanting to learn the dark arts.
1:02:04
Yeah, maybe a little bicycle bow shooting too.
1:02:08
Sounds like they're well equipped.
1:02:10
Well, we don't use horses much over here anymore, so I guess if
1:02:13
you be like a mounted Archer like the.
1:02:15
Mounted Archer. Like Mongols or the Turks?
1:02:18
You could or the Hungarians. I can make a little composite
1:02:20
bow and go along and try and keep balance.
1:02:23
Maybe it could be a recipe for disaster though.
1:02:26
Might be. Thanks again.
1:02:29
I appreciate it and thanks for reaching out.
1:02:30
It's been nice getting to know you.
1:02:32
And you, Todd, it's been a pleasure.
1:02:34
Thanks very much. Thanks for listening to Project
1:02:44
Quiver on Salish Wolf. Follow our journey on Instagram
1:02:48
at Project Quiver as we seek out the world's most extraordinary
1:02:51
traditional boat years and join our newsletter at
1:02:54
projectquiver.com. Our coffee table book, Quiver,
1:02:58
The Art of Life through Bow Craft, arrives in 2026.
1:03:02
We are honored to share with you the beauty, history, and magic
1:03:05
of traditional archery.