Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / The 2025 A.C.E Awards Winners - Sponsored by DanceOne

Transcript

The 2025 A.C.E Awards Winners - Sponsored by DanceOne · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_06: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_06: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_06: This is Making the Impact, a Dance Competition podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_06: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_06: The Dance Won Ace Awards recognized up-and-coming choreographers from across the country, and the 2025 awards showcased a wide variety of unique choreographic voices.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_06: Joining us today are the three runners-up, Tommy Tibble, Maddie Hicks, and Jason Williams, and winner Courtney Barclay to share what their experiences were like as a part of this incredible competition.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: Hello everyone and happy new year from Making the Impact.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's 2026.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's Courtney Ortiz, and I'm here with my co-host on the pod, Leslie Mailer.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: Hey Courtney, happy new year.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yay, I can't believe it's a brand new year, which means a brand new comp season is right around the corner.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_06: You know, it's crazy because it's 2026, and that means like the millennium and the whole like Y2K was 26 years ago.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_06: And then it occurred to me that like the millennial this decade, this era can rent a car now.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_06: You know, it's 26 years old.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_06: We're 26 years into or like I guess you can rent a car earlier than that.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_06: You just pay fees.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_06: Anyway, that's my thought process on 2026.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, yeah.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Remember the millennium?
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: Remember when the world was going to end at the stroke of midnight on year 2000.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: The drama.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it was really, people were really nervous.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_06: And then nothing happened.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_06: And everybody looked around at on like, you know, whatever it was, TRL's New Year's MTV, rocking New Year's Eve, whatever.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_06: And nothing happened.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_06: And people were like, well, moving on.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like people were like, our computers are gonna explode and like all these things.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there was all everything that's gonna reset to year zero, like crazy.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_06: But no, we are still here.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_06: Every year everything is here, and it's 2026.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_06: And are you ready for a new season of competitions?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm ready for a new year.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm ready for a new season.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm ready for yeah, it it's it's gonna be a busy one.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be a busy year like it always is uh in our world.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: We have a lot going on and a lot of traveling and judging and teaching and dance fun.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: But uh I I'm really excited for it.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it's gonna be a great year ahead, everybody.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: And what about you?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Are you looking forward to 2026?
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_06: Oh yes, there's a lot to do.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_06: We have a honeymoon to go on, we have honeymoon to plan.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_06: We've got I've got to work a lot of dance competitions in order to pay for this honeymoon.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so it's gonna be a good year and I'm I'm excited about it.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_06: Uh and hopefully see a lot of you dancers out there.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we're here today in a brand new year on making the impact, and we're actually gonna go back in time to 2025 summer in New York City at the Ace Awards.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: Now, this is uh an exciting event that is back in action, new as of last year.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people may remember it as the Dance Teacher Summit.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: That was a really amazing event that was coming to the East Coast and the West Coast, they would kind of go back and forth with where it would take place back when it existed.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: It was its like relaunch this past summer.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just a great place for dance teachers and studio owners to come and unite with one another, attend different types of classes, business seminars, attend an expo hall.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a the place to be for uh continuing education for dance teachers.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm so, so glad that the summit is back and came back for its first time in about like a five or six year hiatus.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, and Courtney and I had the opportunity to be at the show to see all of the contestants, all the choreography, um, and witness all the winners win.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_06: And it was a really, really, really cool event.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_06: Like, like Courtney said, uh, you know, it's something that people look forward to and everybody was so excited when it came back under the new rebranding of the Dance One organization.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_06: So we are just so excited to speak with these people today and hear a little bit about their choreographic process and what the experience was like for them to be at the Ace Awards this year.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_06: So yeah, we're really looking forward to this chat today and uh stay tuned with all of their social media and follow them when you get a chance because there is a show that will be announced later this year um where they will be able to take part and show more of their work.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_06: So stay tuned to hear more about that.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: And shout out to Dance One for sponsoring this episode.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: Today we're talking with uh the Ace Award winners.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're unfamiliar about what is the Ace Awards, it's a choreography competition and a very prestigious one because so many people look up to being named the winner of the Ace Awards.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: And there are some uh high profile choreographers that you know today that started their career at the Ace Awards and being recognized there.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: So there were 17 different finalists who presented work at the Ace Awards this summer, and there were four winners this year two second runner-ups, a first runner-up, and an official winner, who are all here at the same exact time, joining us right here, right now on the podcast, so we can dive in and learn about them and what their choreography process is like as a creator.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: So, first up, I'm excited to welcome second runner-up of the Ace Awards, and also she's been on the podcast before, season five, episode 182, pursuing a career in concert dance.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm excited to welcome back Maddie Hicks from New York City.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome, Maddie.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, thank you.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for having me back.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_03: I love all you do, and I'm super honored to be here.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: My name is Maddie Hicks, I'm from New York City.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a choreographer, I'm an educator, I'm a dancer, and I'm just really grateful to be here in such amazing company with all these choreographers.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for having me.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yay! Welcome, Maddie.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: All right, our next up is the Tide for Second Runner Up winner.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: This is Tommy Tyball from New York City.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome, Tommy.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, it's so good to be here.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Tommy Tibball.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: I currently uh travel around at many studios like across the country and and teach.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: And my love for dance really stemmed from the concert world and from performing arts high school.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: I went right into opening up my own studio at the ripe age of 18.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: So choreography was my like go-to right away.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just excited to be here.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: And studio shout out, obviously.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Studio shout out, TKO Dance Academy, Queens, New York.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: Let's go, Queens! I'm an Astoria, so we're neighbors.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we are.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome, Tommy.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for joining us.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: All right, next up is a former guest on our podcast, and it was a great episode chat.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: It was a summer bonus episode from season four, episode 149, a conversation on plagiarism in the dance industry.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: Y'all know I love to talk about it.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm so thrilled to welcome back the first runner-up at the Ace Awards, Jason Williams from New York City.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome, Jason.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_04: Hello, how are you?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks for having me.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, thrilled to have you back.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: And please refresh everyone's memory a little bit about you.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_04: My name's Jason Williams.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_04: I'm originally from North Carolina.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_04: I did a long stint in LA.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_04: I did a stint in London.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_04: I've lived everywhere at this point.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_04: Vegas, London, New York.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_04: I'm currently in Paris.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, I've I started dance when I was three, and then I went to the professional world after high school.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_04: Also, you think you can dance, season two, rest in peace with Danielle.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_04: And uh yeah, my career's been going from there.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_04: A lot of TV and film, high school musical, film, the remake, Hair Story Loud.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_04: If it's been on TV and then there has dancing in it, chances are I'm probably in it.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know at this point.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but yeah, and then choreographing all along the way, from studios to dance teams, New York Knicks, Laker Girls, TV film, all the things.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm excited to be here.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: Happy to have you back on the pod, Jason.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for being here.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: And the winner of the 2025 Ace Awards.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm meeting her for the very first time right now, and we share the same first name.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm excited to welcome Courtney Barclay from California.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome, Courtney.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, thank you guys so much for having me.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: I am not too flashy at all.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm born and raised in Southern California, and I would say I've made my 15-year-long career just in teaching kids.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the creative director of a studio called Evoke Dance Movement in Carlsbad and have been since day one.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that studio and working with those kids um on the daily has allowed me to get my work out there enough such that I'm hired at studios all over the country, and I get to go to lots of different studios with lots of different competition tracks.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm able to flex a lot of different styles within Contemporary.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I just choreograph and teach kids every year, and it's great, it's humble, but it's lovely.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I have a question right away off the bat for you, Courtney.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess it could be a quick question for everybody since I am curious about this.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: I heard a rumor while I was at the the Ace Awards that your dancers were some of the youngest that were presenting work on stage.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: Is that true?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: My uh dancers are my students.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: And not one of one of them was a graduate, like a recent graduate, like 2025 graduate.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: So fresh, freshly graduated.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I think honestly, I think that that's kind of the magic of my work.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Specifically that piece for the Ace Awards is because I I've worked with some of those kids for 10 years.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not just the choreography, but it's also the teaching that's at the forefront of the work.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, they were some of the youngest, but hopefully um budding professionals soon enough.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, they're ready.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: They are so ready, they move beautifully.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: And Leslie and I were lucky enough to witness all we got to sit in the audience and watch the Ace Awards this summer, which was such a great show.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: It was a fantastic every single choreographer, if you're listening out there or a finalist, like shout out to you all because I was taking notes as I was going and I was like, this is so hard.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how they're gonna make this decision because every every piece was so unique, so innovative, really great like music choices and styles that we haven't seen, and just a really, really great show.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: So congratulations to all of you for your achievement here.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm so thrilled to learn more from you about your choreographic process because a lot of people, I'm sure, look up to you now, especially seeing who were the winners and who got recognized and why.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I'd love to dive into this fun choreography chat with you all.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_06: Awesome.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_06: Well, thank you again for being here, everyone.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_06: It's it's always amazing when we can get everybody's schedules lined up to make all of this happen.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_06: So thank you for doing whatever you did to make this happen.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_06: I want to start first of all because you know, Courtney and I were lucky enough to be there and witness all this, all this work, which was awesome, but plenty of people did not.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_06: So I'd like to start with everybody describing their piece a little bit.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_06: Tell us the name of the piece, the style, um, and a little bit about why you chose to present this at the awards.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_06: Um and let's start with Tommy.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so the style I was always intrigued by just athleticism within dance and how I can fuse that into storytelling.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: I just feel like these songs were just two songs that were always on kind of like on the back burner for me, and they were never, I feel like, the right moment to use.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the titles of the song is The Deep Freeze, and the other is a pairing to it called Winter.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's music by The Big Scary, and they're like an awesome band that I've always admired.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: And the music just always spoke to me.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it really just kind of came together where the two pieces just the two songs merge perfectly.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: And we did have length limits, so we I knew I couldn't go over the four limit mark.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: So that was a little bit challenging, but I think overall just the the music spoke to me right away.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: I knew that this is what I wanted to do.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: And you had a smaller cast, actually, Tommy, compared to uh most.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like Tommy and Courtney had the smaller cast, Maddie and Jason had larger companies um in your ensemble.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: So how many people were in your P's?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I had nine dancers, which in my brain I thought was huge.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_05: Oh yeah.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I props to everyone that did more than that.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: I taking on nine, I was so overwhelmed.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: I will say that I run a studio uh seven days a week.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: I teach seven days a week at my studio.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: I choreograph probably 45 group numbers.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: This was something that I ran from 9 p.m.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: to midnight after I got my classes at my studio and just with nine bodies and working with their schedules was a whole process.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: So once I actually went there and I saw 20 plus bodies and I was like, how in what is happening?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like how like just to everybody that had a a bigger ensemble because it was just so I was just inspired.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: I I've I've truly felt the same when when I would see different casts come out.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, how did they keep coming?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like how in the world did you get this many dancers' schedules to align?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, especially if you're working with professionals or freelance dancers, because everyone has regular like different types of jobs and a lot of people I'm sure were donating time to do this.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: So, Maddie, let's jump over to you.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: Same thing because you had a large cast.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: How many were on yours?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: I had 30, I believe.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_03: It was insane, but I just have to shout out so many people that made it possible because I could have never done it alone.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: First of all, my composer Ben Waters created beautiful music.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: And this whole piece actually was originally created, shout out to Joe Lentieri because it was created for the NYCDA Destiny Rising concert to get more funding for their college foundation.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I had the impossible task to create a 30-cast piece in two days for that.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_03: Two days for Destiny Rising.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_03: For Destiny Rising, yeah.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I did that last March.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_03: I prepped a ton with my assistant, and we made the whole piece so that we could come in and like set it because it was like 30, 30 kids I'd never even worked with before.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what are you gonna do?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_03: So I made it and I didn't expect much.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_03: And then I was in the audience and I was like, I I've never worked with that many numbers before.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_03: That's why I was really, I was really scared and also impressed at the end.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, oh, I really love like seeing so many bodies through the space.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_03: I felt like it was really powerful and it showed this new side to my work.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: And so when I got into this, I was like, is it crazy if I try to reset this on professionals?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: And then that's my shout out to my incredible assistant, Nicole Hagen, because without her, she's the spreadsheet lady.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_03: And with all the spreadsheets of everyone's availability, we broke it down and found the days that uh 10 people could be there, the days that 10 people could be there, the days could 10 people could be there.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: And those were the sections that those people automatically went into.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: Genius.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_03: And then Saturday before the show on Sunday was our first verse sold everybody together.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_05: So wow.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_03: It was like math.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_03: It was crazy.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_06: It really does sound like math and spreadsheets.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_06: And I'm like, shout out to the people in the creative world who can use a spreadsheet because Nicole Hagin.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: That's why like you got it from your people who can do things that you can't do.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_06: That's amazing.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it was a it was a team, it was it took a village.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I was so grateful.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_03: I think that everybody that like donated their time and and supported the work, I'm just so, so appreciative for.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: And the cast ranged from age like 20 to 35.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_03: So there was a wide, a wide range in my piece.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: But everyone I'd worked with before, I kind of have a good amount of people in New York that I pull from and I've been creating a lot of films with and hiring for things.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: So everybody was just gung-ho, and I'm really grateful.
• 16:05
  unknown: Cool.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_06: And Tommy, were your were your cast members your students or were they other professionals or a combination?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_06: No, it was such a combo.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was okay.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: They weren't they were some were former students of mine.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I wanted already I knew I wanted something that was just out of the competition realm for me.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I purposely did not go to any of my current students.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: That was my main thing.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't want it to feel like favoritism with I didn't want any pull on the kids.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: I I went and reached out to every person I've worked with at one moment in time.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: I pulled people from Florida, I pulled people from different, just every anyone that kind of stuck out to me that I've worked with in this crazy journey of just competition dance, but now there are grown professionals in the world.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I just plugged them in from just all different places.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_06: Nice.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_06: All right.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_06: Let's go on to Jason.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_06: Tell us all about your piece.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_04: My piece was called The Experience, and it was a jazz, jazz, jazz, jazz piece.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um jazz.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_06: We were screaming.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_06: I was screaming.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_04: And I just wanted to, I just wanted to come into the place and kind of like, I don't know, my personality.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_04: I I like to walk in and like shape things up a little bit.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_04: And I knew that I knew that kind of majority would be like in the contemporary world with what they're presenting.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_04: And so I just wanted to come in like with some hard-hitting, like in your face, like here we are, you know, kind of kind of vibes.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_04: I pulled dancers, all of my dancers were professional dancers.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_04: Uh in their people in shows, like we had Colton who's currently in Jeff Hunter, and uh they're all in all all different aspects of the professional world um in New York City.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I had an amazing assistant, uh, Natalie Reid.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_04: Well, her maiden name is Reed, but it's Lesnar now.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_04: She was my assistant who helped me organize everything because I had around 30 dancers as well.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_04: And I just set the schedule and I said, if you can make it, um, if you can't, love you, see you next time.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's just what it was.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_04: This is the schedule, these are the times, and let me know.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, so I just kind of stuck to that, and that kept me without having to think about other people coming in and out or whatever.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_04: And so everyone just made it work.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_04: We the dance was, you know, very uh cathartic for me and for the dancers, and I wanted it to be it, it really was emotional for me because it really nailed it hit, it it like drove home the the intentions I had.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_04: And I wanted everyone to just feel like they were watching like inside of a dance studio.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_04: Like I wanted it to be reminiscent of the time that you were taking that jazz class at your studio, like you were taking Frank Catch's class at BDC, or like that that night at the studio that everyone's so full out and the mirrors are fogged out, like those good days back in the studio.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um, that's what I wanted it to like feel like.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_04: And I knew that a lot of dance teachers um would understand because you know, like they were like my teacher growing up was such a jazz dancer, and um, I knew that a lot of teachers there would understand the the the symbolism of it all.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_04: And they all came up to me and they were like, I I was that girl, I was in that number.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_04: Like I was like, uh, good, love it.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, and everybody was so sweaty, and like you said, I could I could just envision like the sweaty mirrors and the sweaty windows.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_04: And well, we did.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_04: I had this like had this little, we had like what's it called, uh, like sunblot spray that we all like we sprayed on each other to make us like look sweaty.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_04: It worked a silicone like lubricant to put in the hair to make it look like sweaty.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, yeah.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_06: It felt very flash dance.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, that's what I wanted it, even how it started.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_04: Like I wanted it to feel like you know, like you learned the combo.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_04: All right, here we go.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_04: Like very kind of like chorus line 2005.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I that's a great that's a great description because it definitely felt that way.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: It was and I feel like everyone was highlighted in a in a great way and just potabarething across the stage.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_06: Amazing triplets, so they were everywhere.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: Love, love, love.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: All right, Courtney, the winner.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: What inspired this piece?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: How did you create it?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: Describe it for us.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: Tell us more.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, my process is super, super different.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I because I teach and create all the time, um, I didn't create a piece specifically for the Ace of Words.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this piece is actually from a few years ago, two or three years ago, um, 2022.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: I've been sitting on this song for a long time.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: The song is called Here Comes River by Patrick Watson, who is a beautiful singer, composer.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: He makes the most beautiful, like ethereal yet grounded music.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: And grounded is always my vibe, grounded and honest.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I my daughter, I have two kids.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so my process is always like derived from where I am like as a mother and balancing that with a career.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I was about to go into a fall season of choreography, and this song just hit me, and it's it hit me right at as I was starting to travel and leave home and not be a mom and just be a choreographer.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: And the song is just about racing for impact, essentially, seeing the big river of everything in your life coming at you and knowing that it's just gonna wash over you and you have to take it.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so the song is beautiful and inspirational always.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: I created it slow and steady on my dancers.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: I was able to select seven dancers randomly that year, seven beautiful artists, honest dancers that trusted me.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: And we just created in 30 minutes each week, we created little bits of this, of this organic, lovely, authentic moment.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then in applying for the Ace Awards, it's kind of like I need to sort of reinvent or establish a second part of my career now that I am a full fledged mother and can get back into my career.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so I knew I needed to apply for the Ace Awards just to kind of get.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Spark going again.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: And this was the piece that I picked because, regardless of any external validation or lack of, I loved the piece.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: I loved the process.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: I love the dancers.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: I loved how I felt in it.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: I love how the song makes me feel even after hearing it 50 times.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so I knew that I'd be able to have tough skin if I didn't get selected.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then obviously being selected was truly amazing.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then the process in New York was phenomenal with those students.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know, the whole process was just sort of a celebration of my career thus far and where I have been and now looking forward where I am potentially going.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: So totally, totally different.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: It was such a beautiful piece.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: I mean thank you.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: And again, even just also knowing that those dancers were younger students, it they were truly dancing like professionals.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: And the whole stor the whole like follow-through of your story, it was so clear and just very, very well executed.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: You're welcome.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: And and as with everyone's, and something that I want to mention as someone who watched all 17 pieces, for me, as I was observing and taking notes and trying to decide like who would I pick, you know, things like that.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: I felt like that it all it came down to execution for me.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: Because even though it is a choreography competition, right, you're judging the choreography when everything is so good, right?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's sometimes hard to get past if the execution wasn't as strong as it could have been, even though you see what your the choreographer was going for, but the dancers weren't executing it to the extent that it needed to be to be comparatively better than the one before or after it.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that that was an interesting observation for me watching more of a choreography competition that I do think can translate into competitive dance too, right?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: When you're like, okay, who executed it better?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: But um, I could see the visions in all of your pieces come to life because of the cast of dancers that you hand selected for it, whether they were hand selected or they happen to be available and can make it happen, you know?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you like in Jason's scenario, like you said, like, hey, these are the dates you get you can do it or you can't.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: What if like some of your favorite dancers that would have been your hand selects couldn't swing it?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: Then that's just, you know, now you're now you're picking other dancers and you're hoping that they're gonna be at the level that you need, you know what I mean?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: And like that's the hard puzzle piece too of something like this, that it is a choreographic competition, that you're funding yourself and you're making this happen.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: And people are oftentimes donating or getting a small stipend or whatever it is.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: So that was an observation that I I was taking in as I was watching, and I was like, wow, this is this is tough like to make these visions come to life.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: And y'all succeeded at that.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think with in my process was like, um, yeah, I said that these are the dates and this is these are the times let you know, like you know, either either you can make it or not, but it was like a curated group chat.
• 25:03
  unknown: Exactly.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_04: You still can selected them.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_04: That was you didn't post it on your Instagram story and was like, no, no, no, come join the experience.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_04: Like I just thought send it out to as many people that as I knew that I knew obviously from like teaching in New York, like I have a you know, a good repertoire of dancers that I can pull from.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_04: And so I was like, I know that all these dancers can execute.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_04: So, like within these who can, and then you know, those that showed up showed up in exactly Slate.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_06: Amazing.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_06: They did, everybody did.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_06: I want to know.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_06: So when is when did you apply?
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_06: When did you find out?
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_06: Like, what's the timeline of this situation?
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_06: And then did you have parameters in terms of rehearsal process, or did they just say show up with a piece once you got in?
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you could actually um submit a piece of choreography, and that's not necessarily the piece that you had to have in the show.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, so it was pretty it was pretty open-ended, and it didn't there weren't any parameters as in terms of it had to be a freshly filmed piece, it had to be a brand new piece.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no parameters.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Not that I saw or if you do.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_03: I think they prefer they asked for um, I think it was a max of four minutes, is that right, for our sh for the show.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember when I saw that, it was like I don't have a four-minute piece that I feel confident in.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because a lot of a lot of my work for the concert world is like 10 minutes minimum.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: But I had this piece that I I mentioned I did for Destiny Rising was actually six minutes.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I submit a little longer and just like put in it, please consider I'll I'll cut it down, I promise.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: And then luckily they they were like totally, it's fine, just make sure it's four for the show.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: And then I just cut it down.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_03: But that is what I submitted, just a longer version.
• 26:48
  unknown: Okay.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_04: No, I was just curious.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_04: Did everyone do the piece that they submitted?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_04: Did yeah.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I did.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_04: I did.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I I I didn't.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_06: You didn't?
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, interesting.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_06: Well, so Jason, why did you choose make that choice?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_04: My spirit said do something different.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_04: I'm very spirit-driven when it comes to dance.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_04: Like, and I what I submitted was the opening number from my show that I did in New York last year at the O'Neilly Theater.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and it was the opening number, and it was very joyful, and you know, like it was very funky and groovy and kind of like a step-touchy vibe.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_04: And I just knew that I wanted to like come in like a little bit like more like and I taught that combo.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_04: Actually, the crazy thing is I had this combo in my archive on my phone from 2012.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_04: And it was a combo.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_04: It was just a combo that I made up to pump it up one day, and then I kind of pulled it back and I was like, that's fun.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_04: And so I taught it at steps just to see like what the vibe would be, like what the reaction would be.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um and everyone was like, Oh my god.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_04: And then it like kind of went viral as far as like the combo.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, okay, well, that's a good sign.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_04: Um and so then it I then turned it into because it was pump it up, like, you know.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_04: Pump it up, you guys.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_04: Don't you know?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_04: And the song that like everyone knows, and kind of like it's one of those songs that's like, well, I, but when you I don't know, it just it does something to my spirit.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_04: And so I just was like, let's just go with that.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_04: And so we ended up, I ended up switching to that.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_04: And we only had I only did the week prior to the ace awards with my rehearsal period.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_04: So we maybe had like five days prior to, yeah.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_04: Just because I wanted to consolidate it.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: I have more two more questions that are coming as we were talking.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: Did everyone do like we just said four minutes, but did you do a four-minute piece or was anyone shorter than four minutes?
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_04: I was like 352.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: So we we were leaning more towards the four versus like a two-minute or a three.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: We wanted to take the maximum amount of time that we could do.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I was like a four ten.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you broke the rules, Maddie.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_03: Technically, the music ended at 402, and then we had a slow walk off.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, we'll do it.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then speaking of music, would you say in your in your choreographic process, is music one of the first things that you use to begin your creation?
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: Or are you creating a phrase and then finding music that matches, or do you come up with a theme or a vibe?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: And how does it work?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: What's the process looking like?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: Whoever wants to go, you could I'll go.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I'm just speaking.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: Tell us.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: Tell us, Jason.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_04: I music leads me into whatever direction it wants to go.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_04: And that's why um, you know, the Jason Williams experience is the experience because it's an experience for me.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know what my classes are until I'm told.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_04: Like I and some days it's a song that I hear in a coffee shop, and I'm like, oh, this French ballad.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's great.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_04: We're gonna we're gonna do that.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_04: And it's you know, so it's like it's always led by music first, and then kind of whatever whatever that music does for me internally or mentally, and then I create according to, but it's song first for me for sure.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Me too.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: I can't I can't physically choreograph to anything um that doesn't like connect to me honestly and connect to with my with my experiences in some way, shape, or form.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Now, it's usually always about some sort of internal struggle, but I have to relate it to that.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then if I have a dancer or a group of dancers, the subject has to be applicable to them.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: So usually I don't do anything about love because I think it's weird with kids to choreograph about love.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, always music driven has to connect to me on a deep emotional level, um, and then has to connect to the subjects that I'm uh choreographing for because they more so than me have to connect to it purely and honestly.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, the work doesn't make sense.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: So it sounds like intention is talked about, especially when you're working with younger students.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that that's something that's often lost when I see dances at competition in particular, not that you know, but we all teach kids at competition, judge kids at competition.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's very clear when the dancers know what they're dancing about or don't know what they're dancing about.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: And or if the topic or the theme is going completely over their head and it was a choice by an adult that they just really wanted to get this piece out, and it's like, but the dancers don't even know.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it wasn't even discussed.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_06: No, just make this face here, do this contraction here, and it's supposed to be angry or whatever.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Just to me, that that idea in and of itself should like is a crime.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we're teaching kids how to feel through movement.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so to put something to plaster something on them that they don't feel genuinely and authentically makes no sense.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: I almost think it's in some ways can be very wrong to do that to a child, you know?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, my two cents.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: Go, Maddie.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_03: I was just saying in addition to intention, which I think go hand in hand, is my work is like so grounded in quality and my my studying of quality and how to create it and how to educate with it.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_03: And those the educating part is very challenging.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I I personally have liked to keep the the studios I go to um very minimal and and ideally relatively local because I think it's really hard for me to transfer everything I want qualitatively into a group piece in one day and leave.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_05: Yep.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I've just so many times like watched it months later and been like, ah, where did it go?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_03: Where did it go?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I I I think that my work is so about feeling and how we hold feelings in our bodies and how we can express that.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I wanted to create a piece that showed the power in in that.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I needed dancers that I think the most beautiful thing is very, very patient dancers who can hold space like they don't need to be doing a million things to hold that space.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_03: So that's hard to find, I think.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm grateful I had 30 of that.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_06: I was about to say, and you found 30 of them, so that is amazing.
• 33:23
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• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: And Maddie, do you start with music or no?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_03: Again, I had amazing music from my composer.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: He's brilliant and I loved I love the music.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_03: I think it carries the piece.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like I think without that music, we wouldn't have placed him.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: But I do think I start with a feeling usually, and then I find music that backs my feeling.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_06: Well, so wait, did you like have this piece of music commissioned or did you go to him and say, Do you have something for me?
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: What?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so he commissions a lot for me, but this was when I went to him for the Destiny Rising, and I was like, I want something original that feels like this.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_03: And he usually he's also a dancer in the company.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_03: He's he was like, I am so busy.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think of this that I have?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_03: And sent me some things.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_03: So it it is his original work, but I believe this one was was more like, what do you think of this?
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_03: Got it.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_03: Cool.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's really cool.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: I wish more people did that.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I don't know.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: We spend so much money, it is expensive.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't know.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I feel like that this makes sense for you to s to invest in in a unique original music for another unique original piece of art that you're creating for a choreography competition.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like last thing you want is to get to a choreography competition and have the same song as somebody else, you know.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_06: Another jar of hearts.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: You're like a love jar of hearts, though.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: Never mad when it comes on, but never mad, but too many of them.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: Tommy, what's your process of music?
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: Music for me for sure has to come first.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I like my car is my sanctuary.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: I know, like, born and raised in New York City, and people are like, wait, you drive everywhere.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, my car is where, which is probably so unsafe, the music needs to come.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I have like 4,000 songs just on shuffle and I never know what I'm gonna what I'm gonna get.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just constantly shuffling.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like full, like I always say whatever car is next to me looks over.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's no, and I'm like, sometimes I'll get to the place, I'm like, how did I get there?
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't that's why I'm like, maybe it sounds unsafe.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: I fully have no clue sometimes how I go place to place.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: I have a full like three minute piece by the time I'm done.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I like I'm kind of in like a blackout mode.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'll drive, I get there.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like from it's what hits me in the car, what's like I'm like, oh, this is hitting.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like I always say, like, I don't care about music until it's in my car speakers.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: I need to know if it hits in the car.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_06: I think I think a lot of our listeners will relate because we a lot of our listeners listen in the car.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_06: So I definitely think there's teachers out there who have do the exact same thing.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so more things that I'm thinking of as I'm sitting here and and replaying your dances in my head and a lot of the dances from from the Ace Awards.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: There was quality that you were talking about, Maddie, style, uh, technique happening on stage.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: There wasn't really many tricks in sight on that stage at the Ace Awards.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: There was understanding of connecting our movements and transitions and dynamics that also matched the style of the individual choreographer.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: I really felt like that the dancers in each piece really understood that uh style vocabulary that made that choreographer's voice unique, which is why they even got into the competition in the first place.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: And they were able to bring that out and display it to the audience.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: Anything else even connecting to your own pieces that you felt like existed, um, that maybe made your piece stand out or made you a finalist in an award like this because I want to just kind of emphasize the fact that tricks didn't exist because in competition land, we think that that's all that matters.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: And this was a choreography competition where four of these dance, uh the choreographers that are here right now, I'm really trying to play back.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, there might have been like a double pirouette maximum somewhere.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: There might have been like a beautiful, like elongated tilt that falls off the leg that gets passed off to it into the hands of someone else, or something like that.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: But what was the type of quality of movement that was displayed in your pieces or or that you witnessed from others that you felt like might be different than what you see at competition?
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think like Maddie said, the quality I think is paramount.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think that when you're choreographing an original work or an intentional piece of art, I think that a double turn, unless it's like a killer double turn in a jazz heel boots in Jason's, right?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't think a double turn like translates to anything emotional or intentional or indicative of the music.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I think with us and with the choreography we're displaying at this level, I guess, it's about texture and it's about patience and it's about that quick transition from hard to soft um that matches and pairs perfectly with the music.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think there are so many other creative ways to express.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think in this landscape, a trick or a leg has any resonance compared to staleness or compared to a nice deep contraction or compared to eye contact with your fellow dancer on stage.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_04: So I agree.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_06: When being being an observer from all of these, you know, one of the things that stood out to me was the like there's clear technique in every single piece.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_06: And the technique informed the style and informed the quality of movement.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_06: So, like you said, Courtney, even in Jason's piece, where it was like, I was looking at jazz technique.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_06: And for me, like I prefer to see a technical piece over something that is a little bit more emotional.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_06: Like I I really resonated with Jason's piece because it made me feel like I was in that time and place.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_06: Like that, it it put me right there.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_06: And it was because of the technique being displayed.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_06: And so, but you know, even in a tap dance, I was looking at some of the tap pieces, which was really cool, you know, to see tap displayed in such a, like we were saying, like a high-level, you know, sort of competition.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_06: You know, even some of the quote unquote tricky things you see in tap do take a huge level of technique.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_06: And again, from the amount of people that were there, it was really, really refreshing to see like sharp, clean, just beautiful, beautiful technique from everybody.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_02: Within the styles that you know, because there was every style of dance.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_02: But majority contemporary, you know, have to have to say.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: But there was a lot of variation within the contemporary styles that we also saw.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_06: But there was no mistaking what we were seeing.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_06: And I think that's kind of like once you get up to this level, there is no ambiguity about what I am looking at.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_06: I am looking at jazz technique, I'm looking at contemporary technique.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_06: Shit.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, which is which is nice.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_04: That's what brings me to what I was gonna say.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_04: I, as someone who like works when uh worked on conventions and competition world, I would see jazz and I was like, this isn't jazz.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_04: This is contemporary movement to a jazzy song.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_04: This isn't jazz.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_04: And so that's why I really wanted to emphasize like jazz, like the root, the heart, the soul, the soul being the operative word there of jazz and bringing it to the forefront of this is what this is jazz.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_04: There's no like, I mean, there's like you know, everything evolves and everything shifts, but like this is jazz.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_04: Like this is what this is.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_04: You can style it differently, you can slow it down, you can speed it up, but like ultimately this is the soul of jazz and like the root of jazz coming from a place where, as like a black queer man, and really identifying myself in an early age as a jazz dancer and understanding the the roots of jazz and where it comes from, and just being able to display that over through the stage through there was like some whacking moments, there was just like jazz technique, there was like some, there was like effort, there was like all of that emerged into it.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that the technique stuff, like, you know, for me, less is more, and I think for all of us less is more.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_04: And so, like when it was a tricky thing, it was like, okay, so let's just do lag down.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_04: Like, it doesn't need to be a black.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_04: We all can do the but just let's do a nice little click, just a flick, nice, make it hot, and then put it back down and then start and just go back to the jaadlops or like go back to the stair, you know.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_04: So it was just like splashes of it just to show it's like, okay, this is what we're working on with and this is what it is, but we it wasn't relying upon the choreographer.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_04: I was not relying upon tricks from anybody, you know.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think that we're we're saying is, you know, technique and tricks are two different things, like we all, you know, believe, and and technique supports the tricks, sure, but technique supports movement.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_03: And we all we all use the technique to support our movement for sure, but left out the tricks.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: For me, I just feel like they're a little bit um, like they lack the intention.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I I think that I could speak for all of us and and all the choreographers that every piece felt very like very Jason, very Courtney, very Matty, very Tommy.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that we were seasoned artists.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_03: We've studied and analyzed and and grown in many directions in order to like I know I couldn't have made what I made uh in presenting.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um even two years ago.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_03: So it's you know, it's just a testament to how much um experience and work that we all put in to find our unique voices.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: I think that is so important uh for choreographers to discover for themselves.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why you all are successful and recognized, is because you have put the work in to find your voice.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: And there are a lot of choreographers out there who have dreams of of this is what I want to do, but they still haven't found their voice or their identity as a creator.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I I think that you know it takes time, but you have to be patient with yourself.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: Trial and error, getting feedback from other people, you know, all of those things matter for anyone listening who is aspiring to be one of these four choreographers one day, or maybe considering entering into one of a choreography competitions that exist out in our industry, you know, be patient with yourself and finding the right group of dancers to work on, um, being inspired by the music, learning figuring out your creation process is really important.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: And another thing, also like connecting back as a guest choreographer too, and we were all for all of the studio owners out there listening who heard that all of these choreographers, a majority of them, like to have music influence them.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: They have to be inspired by the music to then create something magical.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_02: If you're a guest going into a studio and the studio says, I want you to create to this song, that is going to prevent us from creating our best work, most likely.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: Unless like we are loving the jam.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: But you also have to ask, like, do you like it?
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_02: Are are you connected?
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: Do you connect to this?
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's a very it's gonna be a very different dance than if you trusted the choreographer for their vision to give you what works for them.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: Have you guys ever experienced anything like that as guest choreographers?
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: Go Tommy.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I think that's so important.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I feel like my life right now is was kind of in that sentence that you just said.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: I find myself like growing, which is great, um adding studios to my list and and branching out, but within that, I'm finding a certain feel of like, what if you did this and like I have this song?
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: Or they, which is the new thing, which I'm on the fence about still, but they want to dance to this.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: Or it just it's something that I and I'm and I'm always like, what?
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm like, but you're hiring me.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like my my vision, what am I feeling right?
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what am I inspired to do on your kids, and that will be the best product.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: That should be the final product, whatever, you know, trust me, what I'm you know, my pathway, whatever it is, that you're hiring me for that reason.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever piece you saw that inspired you to hire me came from a deep place that it took time.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: This was the song, this was the progression, this was the vision.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it's almost like there's almost like a fast track to I guess because I'm a studio owner also, so I see it both ways.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I own my studio.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm, you know, we rarely have guest choreographers come in.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: I said a lot of it, but I always wondered like, would I ever even say, like, hey, can you do this?
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I wouldn't just because I know the other side, I would feel like that would just deflate the choreographer before the process even started.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's so important to trust the people that you're hiring.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: And there's no, I would say, my advice would be there's no fast track to because you heard a cool song in the car that, oh, and they're a great choreographer, that aligns.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: That always does not align.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't it doesn't work that way.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: So trust us because that's why you're hiring us.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: I will say I I vet the studios that I go to like extensively.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and when I mean vet, I am like, send me all the videos, send me every single kid, give me a ranking of the kid from like what number one to 50.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: I need to know every single ounce of information about those kids as humanly possible because then I can then be inspired by a song where I can understand what track, what sort of dance might behoove them, right?
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like on my students at Evoke in Carlsbad, I can create and explore because I have time and I have trust.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: But on a weekend in 10 hours, I don't have that.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's important that I get it right for them.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: And if that means that I'm choreographing something super different than my heart and soul would create on naturally, then that's fine.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: I just need to know what that direction is and I need to be inspired within that lane.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm okay with that lane because I'm getting paid for that lane, but I just need to make the right choice.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, everybody needs to be on the same page about like what the expectations are and what the end product is gonna be.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, yeah.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_04: A lot of the times if I go into a studio that I haven't worked with before, I uh I also like you know scan their Instagram and stuff as well.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_04: But one of the things, and and I know I'm crazy and for this, a lot of people are like, Jason, you're wild.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_04: I kind of enjoy being thrown into like a big question mark room.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I kind of enjoy it because then I'm like, let's work with what this is.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_04: Let's let's make let's make this play the best version of it.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_04: Like I've gone into some studios that like don't win, but then when I leave, they win because I made them look like I'm like, oh, I can make you look good.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_04: I can work with this and like well, okay, so only you have a leg.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_04: So only you think like we'll we'll we'll play with it, you know?
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_04: I kind of find it fun.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_04: I kind of I kind of find it fun.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_04: I know it's crazy, but I kind of sometimes I ask for most of the times I ask for if I haven't worked with them before, I ask for a masterclass before I get started.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_04: And I within the masterclass, I'm like, it's open to everyone in the studio because I might see someone that you might not have picked to be in December that is someone that I need.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_04: And so I'll just kind of cultivate the space there.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_04: And a lot of the times, I mean, I think I built enough trust.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_04: I think people would trust me enough to come in and just kind of they're like carte blanche, like whatever, you know.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_04: Like sometimes I'm in the middle of the studio and I'm like, do you have hats?
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, do you have a do you have a bench?
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_04: And I just like literally just in the moment create.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_04: I I like creating on the spot like that.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_04: I don't do much pre-pro.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just I just like going in and getting dirty and making it happen.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_05: Lucky.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_05: Lucky.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_04: It's years, it's years of it, it's years of it, and it's years of and it's work that I've done with myself of trusting my own dopness.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_04: And trusting that if it comes to my mind, then it's good.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_04: And also being okay with telling someone, a kid in the room, that that's not it.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_04: So if I'm like, do this and this, I'm like, mm, that I love you, that does not look good on this.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_04: So we're gonna try something else.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_04: I don't have time to teach you how to make that look good.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_04: So you're just not in this part.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_04: Next, come on, like moving, moving forward.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's a work environment.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I'm like, this is not personal, this is a process.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_04: And you're now in it, and this is very indicative of what it will be in the real world.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_04: So, like, no hard feelings, and it, you know, and it always usually 99%.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_04: I can't really think of a time where there was like, you know, a broken heart afterwards.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_04: It normally like they're like, oh my god, that was they feel involved, they feel a part of our like, oh no, she's she's better with this part, you she should do it.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, yay, and we it becomes very, you know, involved in that way.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_06: And that is one of those things that like is it's a it is a learning experience for the kids too when you approach things that way.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_06: And even for the parents, you know, you have a lot of parents out there.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_06: Why is she in the back row?
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_06: Why is she never in the front?
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_06: Well, because she's important back there too.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_06: The back there person's just as important.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_06: If we don't have the back there person, then there's nobody back there.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's the like there was one time I went in as a guest choreographer, and I guess I picked a dancer for a feature that never gets picked for anything, you know, and it's and then like the mom comes up to me after, oh my gosh, you've completely paid your life.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I you changed my dancer's life.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like this means so much.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_02: You have no idea, you know?
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I don't know, I was just doing my thing in the moment, you know.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_02: That person was doing that best, so I picked them.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and I've I've sort of, as a creator, become similar to you, Jason, where like when I first started as a young choreographer, I was so stressed.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: I had to walk in with like at least a handful of phrases prepped and ready, and I would like have a whole minute of the dance created.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then I learned that sometimes they can't execute it and I'm gonna have to change it anyway.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: So why am I doing all this pre-prep if they can't even do it?
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_02: And now I'm at a point where I just like as long as I have a song that I vibe with, then I can walk in and I can start a cre start to create.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_02: But I think the challenging aspect for me and cure and I know some of you shared your process length for ACE awards, but it's the time restraint that's hard.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_02: Is getting things done in this amount of time when you're limited.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I know even for Ace, you guys had that.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like Jason, you said you only had the week leading up.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Maddie, you did it in chunks and then pieced it all together.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_02: And then you Tommy, you were doing it post a whole night of teaching at nine o'clock until midnight, you know?
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like so, how much time collectively did you put or did you as the choreographer, let's say it includes pre-pro rehearsal time?
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_02: Oof.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_02: I want to have an idea for a four-minute piece.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_02: So how long does that take a choreographer to create?
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, for me, for Ace War specifically, obviously, I did it.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: We do our choreography weekly.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: So 30 minutes each week for three months, I guess.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: Which I mean, a half an hour, 15 minutes is like it's like really like 20.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's like 15 when you get in, you review the material.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's like insane.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_02: Four counts of eight.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's crazy.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you get that's insane.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: I procrastinate, so usually I'm like, let's twiddle this time down.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I just, it's it's not the funnest process.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it creates more organic phrases that are a little bit more like day by day, which is kind of cool.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: But when I go in to create something on a weekend, I need like at least 10 hours now.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if it's because my work has become more intricate, um, more detailed.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many movement patterns, and I need everything to flow correctly and I need everything to make sense.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like I will get caught on a move and be like, it says breath.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: What does that mean?
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: What does that mean?
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I will have to do the right thing all the time, not just a thing, a good enough thing.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: I have to do the right thing because I'm whatever.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: So 10 hours, but even then sometimes I just can't get there, you know?
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, so hard.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think I've ever left I've never left the studio having not finished.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_04: And I always end up with more time than I need.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's good.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like that is, and that's just I mean, there's I can think of one of the teachers that I one of the studio owners that I teach for in Canada.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_04: It's like I can hear a voice now.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_04: Cause I'll be like, just give me Friday and Saturday, give me Friday, Saturday, and like half day Sunday.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I'm just like, just clear the kids' schedule and tell them that they're at studio.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_04: Like they're just with me.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_04: It's my weekend, and the parents get to go do whatever they want.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_04: Like bring lunch, bring a sleeping bag, whatever, we're here.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_04: And then I'll let you go when I'm done.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, and we're usually just kind of like in and out, you know, we just kind of like bunker down and get it done.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_04: Like, um, but yeah, 10 hours is usually a solid, a solid once it's for me, it's like once I get that first, once I get the intro, like the first 20 seconds, the first paragraph, then we're like, we're good to go.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_04: But that first paragraph can take me about like maybe an hour, two hours, you know.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_04: Totally.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_02: And then for your dance for the Ace Awards, how long did that take?
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_04: I would say probably like 12 hours.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_04: Two, four, six, eighteen.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, twelve-ish hours.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we were done.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_02: Easier when you're working with pros and dancers that you know too.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah, for sure.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we were done by Ace of Wars was on a Saturday, right?
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_04: Was it on Saturday or Friday night?
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, Saturday night.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_04: We were done like maybe Thursday, and then we just kind of like ran it Friday and Saturday.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_06: Wow.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_06: And like again, with the people who are listening, like this was just the whole process, including cleaning, like including getting it tight, like stage ready.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_04: And then wardrobe was a whole nother thing because I am such a I need the looks.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_04: I went through every everyone specifically, like hair, makeup, eyelashes.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_04: Like I get very down to like accessories, like I need the look to look.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_04: I some had some girls take off their nail, they're like, that nail color, we can't do that.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's just it's very, I just like it to, I want it to look like a you know, a company, like a full-fledged overall look.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, it's it's a full full process for us all.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_04: And then I think some of our some of our numbers, some of our people were in each other's stuff.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, oh yeah, me and Jason shared a few.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say, yeah.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we shared you shared some of your dancers.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_03: They were playing double duty because we had such we had similar size casts, we have similar communities in New York, and I remember I talked to a few of mine, and they were like, it does surprisingly works with Jason's schedule.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, that was like heck, yeah, magical.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I thought I recognized dancers coming back out for round two in another dance.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh, didn't I just see?
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_04: Like, we had like these dancers are so like versatile and just can do whatever, and it was just cool to see that.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was so versatile.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_03: They were like killing it, Sassy and Jason's, and then coming out like so calm, and it was awesome.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, I mean, I'll echo what everyone said.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_03: I think it depends on the piece and where I'm going and what I'm working on.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_03: And but for this, I mean, everybody on their own probably spent significantly less time than me.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_03: But I guess if I put it all together, I would say like 15-ish hours.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_03: And if we're counting like spreadsheets and meetings, we're up to like 20.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_03: And then like again, like just it took a village.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I also was really picky about the costumes, and I bought a ton.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_03: I bought like 50 because they're 30.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_03: I bought like 50 different versions of white mesh.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_03: And then on the side, actually, some of the dancers we shared, like Natalie, they were really into it.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_03: They were cutting all of them and helping me with it while I'm working on other sections, and like it was just really incredible everybody coming together.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, costumes take a while, scheduling takes a while.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_03: It all takes a while to put your heart and soul into something.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_03: I went to wasn't gonna throw it on stage, not being so proud of it.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_02: And then Tommy, how many rehearsals did you all have?
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we did.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we rehearsed like that Monday.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think, like Jason said, we were done around the Thursday.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, so just the week leading.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we like started on the Monday.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was probably like nine to twelve Monday through Thursday.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I think that's why I explored outside of my competition kids because number one, they were already in class with me, and I was like, Yeah, it was like fine.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then like people were coming in.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_01: I remember them still looking like who are these people coming?
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like we were like, it was like the night shift.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: I was calling it TKO after dark.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_01: We just had we just it was a different vibe, and just they were that's I mean, I'm so thankful for them.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_01: It was just they whatever I threw at them, they were like, Oh, you want me to move?
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_01: How like the movement really derived from like the pelvis?
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like I started with it was an improv, I just improved like for probably four hours, like uh a week before that, and I just pulled little pieces and bits and pieces of things that I liked in my own improv and I sent it to them and I was like, study this, whatever this is.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, We're moving, like how would a soul move and how like it originates from the I kept coming back to this pelvis movement and it ended up being all over in my piece.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, get ready for your like they came in on day two and they were like, I they were like, my glutes, my like they were like, I was like, I told you it's gonna be like everything is gonna uh derive from the pelvis.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it was about like a total, I would say like 10 hours.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think that's that's actually less than I expected out to be honest, about everybody's creation, because I feel like something that you're so proud of that you're gonna put into something as prestigious as a choreography competition, you know, as perfection perfectionists like we are in our creative process, you can continue to analyze and look and change this and edit that and sculpt this.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_02: But it sounds like that a lot of us didn't have the time to be able to do that.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm sure you probably watch your dancer, oh, I want to would have changed that section or I would have i you know tweaked this or whatever.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_02: But sometimes there's a deadline and you gotta get a dance on stage, and that's what the it ended up being.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it was, you know, everything that you could have dreamed of.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe if you revisit it, there might be modifications and things like that.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_02: But that's the hardest part about being a creator, I think.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what's so special about what your situation, Courtney, even though you only have 30 minutes of pop, which feels like you can't get anything done, at least you can kind of keep revisiting it and then retweaking and re-readjusting and that's the one that's the one thing that is great about working with kids or students or whoever dancers each week is you get the ability to edit um and come back and revisit if things feel wrong.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_00: I will say leading up to the rehearsal, uh leading up to the ace awards.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_00: So they had done the piece and completed the piece two years ago, but then execution, speaking of execution, we did spend another probably total like eight hours like here and there.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because you can you can clean them into um still feeling authentically, that it can still look great, you know.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to strip it away of authentic emotion and attention, but it can still be clean and great.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we did spend time continuing to work on that.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_02: With that, I want to just like highlight what you just said, especially knowing that all the all the other three were working with professionals, adults, and you are working with kids, um, like older kids, like teenagers, like 15 and older.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_02: That cleaning probably does need to take time for a a student because they're a student.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_02: They they need that eight, eight hours of cleaning.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, professionals are expected to be clean right away.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the difference.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's true.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_02: And that is the difference between becoming a pro and not being ready to be a pro.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, y'all, there's no time for cleaning.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_02: When you become a pro, you better be clean.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you know, and that is the most that's and that's again when execution comes into play.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's like if you would have put that same dance, like if if we would have put Jason's dance on students, 15-year-olds, it wouldn't be the same dance that I watched at the Ace Awards.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I mean?
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_02: Same same with Maddie, same with Tommy's.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_02: It would not be the same dance because they and in the same restrictions of time without a clean rehearsal.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_06: Definitely.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_06: And I remember saying that to you, Courtney, at like literally at the event, I was like, they're all so clean.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_06: Like, yeah, and and I knew that nobody had spent a year and a half on this dance with the same people every week, like like a competition studio does, you know, or any kind of studio.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_06: But that's just, it really does go to show that like once you get to a certain level, cleanliness is just the expect the expectation.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_06: There's no other way to do it.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_00: I do also want to give them a little bit of credit.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm uh, I don't think I could have hired seven professionals that would have done my routine, like my students said.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that there is something also very important about the relationship between student and their teacher or just a choreographer that they're familiar with, right?
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think professional choreographers always have a quick go-to group of people because they know and they get it.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_00: And exactly I just there's never there's not a a world in which seven professionals would have gotten it with the same quality and authenticity as my students, but right it's to be expected because they know me.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_00: They know me in Brian out as a choreographer.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_06: And that's what I think is again with like the uniqueness of everything we saw at that at that show.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_06: Like you, you could you could see everybody's just unique vision and personality come through, and the people who executed everything, you know, there's a reason everybody was there, and there's a reason you four are here, you know, at the top of the cream of the crop, kind of.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_06: So yeah, we were just, I mean, I had never been to an ace awards before, Courtney, had you?
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_02: Me neither.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_06: So it was really kind of a special opportunity to be able to to see this back back in action in New York City.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I'm especially back.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_06: There were there were participants from other countries.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_06: There were people from all over the country, you know, showing work, which was also really cool and inspiring to see that it's not just people in hubs that are doing good work out there, you know.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_02: Well, y'all, this was such a great chat.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_02: Again, thank you for carving out time and your schedules on so many different time zones to chat dance with us and your choreographic process.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_02: I hope that all of our listeners out there learned something about what it takes to become a successful choreographer in all different sides of our beautiful dance world.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_02: And give a go check out all of these fantastic choreographers on social media, on Instagram, on YouTube.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_02: Look at their work.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_02: Take a peek and see why, what what makes you feel something when you watch them?
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_02: Why are they standing out to the rest?
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of them are convention teachers, a lot of them are guest choreographers, and a lot of them you might even be competing alongside at competition with some of their routines as guests or with their studios.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_02: So be on the lookout for them in our beautiful dance world.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you to Maddie, to Tommy, to Jason, to Courtney for being here on the podcast.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_05: Thanks for having me.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you so much.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_02: Such a pleasure, y'all.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so would you all be willing to share one final thought to lead us out of this episode?
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever you want to share to uh aspiring choreographers, to teachers, to dancers, to studios, to uh future Ace Awards, uh Participants, whoever you want to speak to, to just lead us out with your final thoughts.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_03: I will say I made for so long so many bad dances.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_03: And to this day I still make bad dances.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_03: And just keep making.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_03: Make bad work.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_03: I look back at when I was in school and I made this weird piece that was like half in silence and half to Anaconda.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like what was I thinking?
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_03: But like I needed to sorry?
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_03: It was just so random.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean I look back and I think, you know, thank God how far we have come.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_03: Look at that.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I still make things today that I'm like, I'm proud of it and I stand by it, but you know, it doesn't connect to everyone.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_03: So I guess I'm just saying keep making.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's not gonna connect with everybody.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_03: Make those bad dances so that one day they're not so bad.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_04: I will speak to the dance studio owners and the teachers, since that's primarily like who listens to this podcast.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_04: I would say I would encourage to diversify your training for your your students' training as much as possible.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_04: And not just in styles, but in the people that you bring in.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_04: I look at a lot of the summer intensives or the programs that you know people bring in, and I look at the teachers and I'm like, wow, this is a lot of the same um, same race, same voice, you know, like and I just think that it's such a disservice to your students to not let them be exposed to things outside of their comfort zone in the in the confines of their studio, which is such a safe space and perfect space for them to be stressed and for them to experience new movement.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_04: I I was blessed as a uh as a team, my teacher, I mean, we brought she brought in everybody, you know.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_04: And so I just think I would like I would love to encourage studio owners to, you know, just expand their horizons, you know, as far as who they're bringing in and why they're bringing them in.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_04: I know a lot of the times teachers kind of stick to like I'm like, you literally take from these same teachers at the convention that you're going to next weekend.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_04: So like why pay them more?
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_04: Like, do the thing, but do whatever you're doing, you know.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I know you want to like you know say the graces of whatever, but um I just think that as a artist, and less as a business, I get the business aspect of it, but as an artist training artists to expose and to expand their mind and diversity in their training, because the more versatile they are as a dancer, um, the better they're gonna be the longer the more longevity they'll have in a career, whether they want to be in commercial dance, TV film, concert dance, whatever, I think the best dancers out there are dancers that can come from my number, that can also go into Maddie's number, then also can go into Tommy's number, then also can go into Corey's number.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_04: Those are the dancers that I want to work with.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that would just behoove you as a studio owner, as a teacher, to you know, expand your horizons and get out of your com out of your comfort zone.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think for choreographers, I think the biggest piece of advice I would say is just to spend extra time and effort to find your authentic idea, um, your authentic voice.
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think in the dance culture there are so many trends.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I just think we can so easily get sucked into the latest trendy thing, whether it's a piece, whether it's a move, whether it's a costume choice, it's just everywhere and it gets rewarded.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, it's hard to it's hard to step away from the reward of what's trendy, but I think when you're training and developing dancers and artists and developing your own artistic voice, really settling in and trusting your ideas without them being filtered by outside forces is really important.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think anything is valid if it comes along with intention.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_00: You can make the craziest idea look so powerful and feel so powerful for an audience if it just comes with commitment and with trust.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_00: So do the extra work, make it authentic.
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I would say um patience too.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_01: My biggest advice would be understanding patience within yourself, within your mental space, within your work.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like there's well, which I touched on before, but there's like this fast track now that like everybody wants it like instantly.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say the same advice for choreographers.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_01: Just because we jump into choreographer land doesn't mean it's also there's also a fast track there.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that can go hand in hand with like how much I see people charging nowadays that are like a fresh out of like, you know, but I think overall, like they want this instant, like I'm at the top.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I would just say for anybody that wants to enter a competition like this and maybe doesn't get selected, you need to like learn patience within yourself and in your work.
• 1:10:51
  SPEAKER_01: I would think that's my biggest thing.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you can get it wrong.
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like we, I mean, everybody just kind of touched on it's okay to get it wrong and try and try again and just like keep pushing.
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think that like everybody wants it instantly.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_01: I know a lot of also peers and younger choreographers that submitted for this exact competition and were just like bummed out of their life that they didn't make it.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, when I was 18, I was like, I'll do the smaller for$100.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'll do it.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just wanted to create, and I feel like that we're missing that a little bit.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_02: We hope you enjoyed our chat with the 2025 Ace Award winners.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_02: Congratulations to Tommy, Maddie, Jason, and the winner of the 2025 Ace Award, Courtney Barclay.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_02: Be sure to follow them on Instagram.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_02: You can find Courtney at CourtneyRay Barclay, Jason at the Jason Williams Experience, Maddie at MaddieHicks, and Tommy at Tommy Tit.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_02: Mark your calendars.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_02: The Ace Awards are back this summer at the Dance One Summit in New York City.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_02: If you are a choreographer interested in applying, submissions open in February 2026.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_02: Learn more on their website at DanceOnesummit.com.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_06: Don't forget to follow Making the Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Podcasts, and pretty much everywhere you listen to podcasts.
• 1:12:10
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• 1:12:16
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• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_06: Join now at Impact Dance Adjudicators.com slash Platinum Premium or click the link in our show notes.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_02: Get ready for the Dance One Summit in 2026.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_02: The experience for studio owners and teachers shaping the future of dance to unite, share, and inspire.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_02: Attend the Dance One Summit for Impactful Movement Classes, hands-on workshops, business seminars, and exclusive industry insights.
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_02: Coming to you this summer 2026.
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_02: Mark your calendars for August 13th through 16th in New York City.
• 1:12:56
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• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_02: Use the promo code 100SUMIT2026.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_02: Learn more and secure your spot today at DanceOnesummit.com.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_06: Season 7 continues in the next few weeks with a day in the life of a dancer on tour, a throwback episode, and an episode all about partnering.
• 1:13:20
  SPEAKER_06: We'll see you then.