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The internet you see isn’t real · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:26
  Well, hello, everyone, and welcome to the 10 Penny Files.
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  I'm your host, Dr.
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  Sherry Tenpenny.
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• 2:02
  Now, let's get started.
• 2:04
  Today's conversation is with one of the most important independent journalists worldwide, Sarah Westall is to talk about her work and her popular podcast, business game changers.
• 2:17
  Sarah, welcome so much to the 10 Penny Files.
• 2:19
  It's such an honor to have you here with me today.
• 2:22
  Oh, thank you so much for having me.
• 2:24
  You know, for those who aren't familiar with your work, maybe they don't listen to a lot of business podcasts.
• 2:30
  Uh, tell our audience a little bit about your background and about your investigative work that you've been doing for so long and do it so well.
• 2:37
  Well, thank you.
• 2:38
  Well, I've been doing this for almost 15 years now.
• 2:42
  And the show did start off as a business, you know, game changers, a podcast about business, and I still have a good foothold in that air arena.
• 2:52
  But it's always about it was about the edge of change, you know, where the world's going when it came to business and tech and uh new inventions and just it was exciting, right?
• 3:04
  And then you do that and you learn a lot.
• 3:07
  You run into things that you didn't realize the world was the way it was.
• 3:11
  Like we have the ability to have free energy.
• 3:13
  Well, why don't we have that?
• 3:14
  What we have the ability to cure all these diseases.
• 3:16
  Well, why aren't we doing that?
• 3:18
  And then you run into the world of blackmail and you run into, and so you start to realize how the world really functions.
• 3:25
  You can't do the edge of change without running up against that wall.
• 3:29
  And so, and and with the world resetting, and there's a lot of different inputs to that.
• 3:36
  Uh you um you can't just cover the you know, the edge of change without covering the entire geopolitical reset and global economic reset that's occurring right now.
• 3:49
  It's just not possible.
• 3:51
  And so that intersects into all aspects of life.
• 3:55
  And uh so I cover that, and I really try to do justice to where that change is, but we get into some dark areas and some light areas, you know, it's not all dark, but we have a lot of obstacles that we need to clear out of the way in order to get to for humans to thrive, right?
• 4:12
  I mean, you're spending a lot of your time doing that, and that's ultimately where where we want to get to, but that's what I cover.
• 4:20
  You know, I cover all those things.
• 4:22
  So you know, it seems it does seem as though all sorts all sorts of of roads are colliding at the same time right now.
• 4:29
  I mean, between what happened with all of the COVID nonsense and the World Economic Forum and the exposure that's happening through the Epstein files and all of the different things just seem to be um, you know, the Bible says, you know, all things hidden will come to light.
• 4:45
  Well, it seems like they're all coming to light at the same time and being able to just explode onto the scene.
• 4:52
  And at the same time, we end up with um uh a lot of contradictory evidence that it makes it difficult to know who to believe.
• 5:01
  How do you sort some of those things out?
• 5:04
  Well, it's very hard.
• 5:06
  And one of the first people that I interviewed, or one of the deep investigative work I did was with Detective Rostin, Jimmy Boots Rothstein.
• 5:15
  And he uh um I it's amazing I actually had that opportunity.
• 5:19
  I got to know him over the years, and he taught me, he took down more pedophile networks than anybody.
• 5:25
  He's very well known.
• 5:26
  He's a legend in the intelligence world.
• 5:28
  His informant was Roy Cohen.
• 5:30
  And Roy Cohen is uh was a legendary blackmailer in New York City, had Hoover uh blackmailed, and um he was uh notoriously Donald Trump's mentor in the 80s, and he flipped at the end of his life and decided he wanted to take down all these pedophile networks.
• 5:50
  He was raised in an orphanage where he was just ruthlessly abused and used and then turned into that himself.
• 5:57
  And at the end of his life, he was funding these orphanages and helping to take down these pedophile networks.
• 6:02
  You can't take down those pedophile networks without having a really high-level informant.
• 6:07
  And that was his informant.
• 6:10
  And so I did a six-part series with them.
• 6:13
  I spent hours with him on this, you know, interviewing them and diving into it.
• 6:17
  And one of the things he taught me was you can't trust anything that you read.
• 6:21
  You have to verify yourself.
• 6:23
  And I know that's incredibly difficult for people who are trying to make sense of the world.
• 6:28
  But I think the important thing is is to check your own gut, what makes the most sense, and then um read different and look at different sources, and then um create a community and do the best you can.
• 6:42
  And I'm sorry that's such a crappy answer, but I think that's the truth.
• 6:47
  I mean, we should have learned from the Russian or the Russiagate files.
• 6:50
  Those were all made up intelligence.
• 6:53
  That's not unusual.
• 6:55
  Made up intelligence is what we're dealing with right now because that is fifth generation warfare.
• 7:00
  They are making up intelligence to do their own agendas.
• 7:03
  And so we have to be able to read through that.
• 7:05
  We have to see what makes sense and what what makes sense.
• 7:08
  We have to be able to have um some critical thinking skills so that we can weed through it ourselves, and we can't blindly trust anymore.
• 7:17
  We can't blindly trust authority, period.
• 7:20
  You can't do that.
• 7:21
  And you know, and with AI coming on the scene so strongly, it seems though it was probably less than two years ago.
• 7:28
  Somebody sort of floated the concept out into the general public about AI, and it seemed like it was some far-off thing.
• 7:35
  But look in such a very short period of time, probably 12 to 15, 18 months.
• 7:40
  It's become mainstream and used every day for all these things.
• 7:44
  And with the AI videos now, where they only have to listen to a person's voice imprint for something like seven seconds to be able to replicate it, and then they can use your face.
• 7:55
  To me, that's very scary because I'm sometimes watching some a little video clip or something on Instagram, and then you realize that something's not right, and then it comes to your consciousness that it's probably AI generated.
• 8:09
  And it's really scary for people like you and and me that talk about edgy topics to difficult things.
• 8:16
  I can get concerned sometimes that somebody's gonna take my voice imprint and my face and make me say something that I never said, and that will put you into some sort of uh corruption thing, or say that you're, you know, we're gonna shoot the president or something, and you never said any of those things.
• 8:33
  Does that is that a concern that you have?
• 8:36
  Have you delved into that at all?
• 8:38
  Well, I I think it's a concern whether it's AI or not.
• 8:41
  I think you can do you can read your voice.
• 8:43
  We we have that technology for a long time.
• 8:46
  We can read your voice, we can read your face and do that.
• 8:49
  I think there's so little percent of stuff that's true AI, um, where the actual intelligence where it's learning upon itself versus just basic logic with vast amounts of data.
• 9:02
  Uh, and I think that's the majority of what we're seeing.
• 9:05
  But regardless, it's it's incredibly powerful.
• 9:08
  And what you can do with that technology is absolutely incredible, and it is a very real threat.
• 9:15
  I mean, I don't know how you get around that stuff other than starting to develop uh other kinds of skills, you know, start developing your ability to read energy and I I know this seems really out there, but we have to be able to humans have more skills than we uh have been able to tap into because we've been told they're not real.
• 9:40
  And we do we sense things.
• 9:42
  We know when we just sense danger, just like animals do.
• 9:46
  They run to the higher ground because they sense danger.
• 9:49
  We can tell, like Erica Kirk, the vast majority of people read just felt like she wasn't telling the truth.
• 9:55
  We have those um abilities.
• 9:58
  We just have to get better at sensitive.
• 10:00
  That we I think that's our best defense when we have no other way to be able to see if something's true or not because we don't have access to it.
• 10:11
  I mean, I don't know, I don't have good answers on some of these things.
• 10:14
  I mean, you know, it's gonna be really really hard.
• 10:18
  Just the conversation that needs to be had, and that people are wanting to hear what people that are on the mainstream cutting edge have to say about it, what your thoughts are about it.
• 10:28
  You know, you've been around technology for a really long time.
• 10:31
  In fact, you were involved with elements of the internet back in the early 90s.
• 10:35
  What was your role in that and what did you do?
• 10:39
  Well, thanks for asking.
• 10:41
  Uh, I don't talk about it as as much as I should probably should.
• 10:44
  I was uh I have a computer science uh systems engineering degree from the um University of Minnesota College of Engineering.
• 10:54
  And uh that's where I started.
• 10:56
  I also have a business uh background and business, uh I have a uh not a minor and emphasis in business management, and then I went on to get my MBA and I didn't finish it because I built the business, a multi-million dollar business, but I also taught at the University of Minnesota at the business school.
• 11:11
  And I did that for about five years before they didn't like what I was saying.
• 11:15
  And I think it was my interview with you that got me can, which is okay because it was truth, right?
• 11:22
  And I think now they're it's it's a different that was 2016.
• 11:26
  But what I did is I was uh hired at Enterprise, which we had upwards of 90% of the frame relay make it market, which was the internet base of the internet.
• 11:37
  We were building the next generation data network.
• 11:42
  And um, at that point, the baby bills were restricted to certain areas, but when it came to the internet, we didn't have that restriction.
• 11:49
  So we had upwards of about 90% of the entire internet market at that time.
• 11:54
  And I was promoted many times, and I ended up being the director of systems and development for that organization.
• 12:01
  So I was responsible for managing all their systems development and design.
• 12:06
  Before I did that, I was doing um their data modeling.
• 12:10
  We modeled out the entire network.
• 12:13
  And um, that's where I learned, you know, a lot of people call that AI now.
• 12:18
  I don't, I never called it AI.
• 12:19
  I think you could use it as a base for machine learning.
• 12:22
  But that was that's what a lot of people call sophisticated AI when it really is just um a really well-structured data model that you have access to.
• 12:32
  But I was responsible for that.
• 12:33
  I learned a lot from that.
• 12:35
  And then I did, you know, what I did afterwards.
• 12:38
  Um, and we I learned a lot.
• 12:40
  I I learned a lot about how the entire network worked, how data structures work, how the infrastructure work.
• 12:48
  I learned how people think from the inside.
• 12:50
  Um, I understand really broad level system thinking, which is what we need to get to because universities train you in silo, very narrow-minded things.
• 13:01
  You don't, they don't have the ability, which we need to learn how to do, especially with AI coming on.
• 13:06
  We need to start valuing system-wide level thinking, broad categories.
• 13:11
  That's why a show like yours is so excellent.
• 13:13
  You're you're you can't stand it.
• 13:15
  I can tell you need to be a broad, you're a broad thinker that needs to go across many domains.
• 13:20
  And we have trained our populace to think that only certain silos, you know, very deep knowledge is what is valued.
• 13:30
  And we have no way of of looking and valuing and educating people across domains as a system-wide thinker.
• 13:38
  And where the world's going, that's what we need, especially with AI and teaching people how to get there.
• 13:44
  And that's my background.
• 13:45
  I mean, that's what I've done and been pretty much since I was a college kid.
• 13:51
  And uh I was trained to think that way and to operate that way.
• 13:55
  And uh I weirdly now think that, you know, you you kind of stumble into where you're at.
• 14:01
  And I think it's um what we really need right now is more people that can think like that if we're gonna solve these problems.
• 14:09
  You know, your background with all of that with business and IT and insider sort of looking, like you said, seeing from the inside out, has uniquely positioned you into a place where you can foresee some of the dangers that where we are and where we're going and understand it.
• 14:27
  How how do you interpret what you're seeing now based on your background?
• 14:31
  Well, I think that coupled with the media background I have, where I'm seeing the censorship and the the algorithmic control um uh first person, coupled with my understanding of how that's done from a system standpoint, gives me a different perspective.
• 14:49
  It's almost horrifying because I know how they can control it and understanding that the government has been so deeply involved in that and how they it's broader than one corporation.
• 15:00
  They've implemented a control structure that's above these big tech platforms that they all share.
• 15:07
  I mean, just like the um the user ID, the digital ID, that's all shared across all these different uh platforms, and they've created a meta structure, right?
• 15:19
  And that's very much government controlled.
• 15:22
  And it's it's completely against everything that we uh held dear in this country as far as um not just for freedom of speech, freedom of speech is extremely important, uh, not just so I can speak, but you can hear what I am saying.
• 15:36
  And we if COVID didn't teach you that, I don't know.
• 15:39
  I mean, that's probably the biggest lesson of COVID is that these poor people got poor information and their loved ones died because of it, or they're walking around with some kind of crippling uh side effect because they simply were not allowed to hear information that would have allowed them, would enable them to understand and make different decisions about their families and their lives.
• 16:02
  And and so that's so critically important.
• 16:05
  But on top of that, they're also making decisions on business and trade.
• 16:10
  Who can be make money, who can have power in this society, who has the ability to make a difference in the public sphere and the minds of, you know, it's not organic, it's not the what the people want.
• 16:24
  It's what they want you to be able to see, and they're making the decisions of who can, you know, from a business enterprise standpoint, the people who make money have the resources to then do other things.
• 16:36
  They're cutting people off at their knees of not being able to not only have influence from a uh speaking, but have influence to even have the resources to do the next stage of things, you know, no matter what business you're talking about.
• 16:50
  So these are antitrust issues that are much broader than uh anybody has even thought about and understanding how the systems are written and designed and controlled, enabling them to do this is horrifying for my perspective.
• 17:05
  So I have both ends of that spectrum.
• 17:07
  I'm on the front end and I can see the back end and how how incredibly important it is for people to understand the level of control they have at a algorithmic level and get involved because so much of the decision-making power is now at the algorithm level.
• 17:27
  We used to see people run these processes, and we used to be very involved because people did it.
• 17:31
  It became it was obvious for for us.
• 17:33
  We could see them doing the work.
• 17:35
  We were actively engaged and had opinions.
• 17:37
  Soon as that same activity is put into an algorithm and people don't see it, they stop engaging, criticizing, and putting their input into it.
• 17:48
  And now it's in a black box.
• 17:50
  And we we have to change our thinking and say those algorithms are our right to analyze and to dispute and to make decisions about because people used to do that work, and now it's the algorithm, and we have the same right to uh question those activities.
• 18:07
  Well, you know, speaking of algorithms, you've had some run-ins and some opinions about Google.
• 18:13
  And Google has got that you feel like Google has gone beyond far beyond censorship of independent journalists, and now they target and even do character assassination designed to strip people of their livelihoods, discredit their work, and ultimately to destroy them.
• 18:28
  In fact, I think you have recently filed a lawsuit with Google, if I remember right, and the federal government.
• 18:34
  Where are you with that lawsuit?
• 18:36
  And how does your lawsuit differ from other uh freedom of speech lawsuits that have been taking on the big tech companies for their censorship things that happened during COVID?
• 18:46
  Well, I think this one's gonna be a landmark one, and uh, you're one of the disinformation 12 or dozen, aren't you?
• 18:52
  Yeah, I am.
• 18:53
  So you're in you're working with the same people I am who've been working on this for a long time, right?
• 18:58
  Yeah.
• 18:59
  My case is is similar to yours, but a little different in the sense it's a little it it's um uh uh cleaner and more compact.
• 19:08
  Uh and that it's it's just so obvious what they what they've done, you know, reinstating me and then not stating me and making things up, claiming I'm harassing and bullying people, but not a single strike or warning was related to that.
• 19:23
  It was all medical misinformation because I interviewed PhDs and MDs who didn't agree with the narrative.
• 19:30
  Um I mean, it just made no sense.
• 19:32
  Bringing me back for for two days, claiming that I am now harassing and violating policies, which they didn't give me a single strike, and all four videos that went up were vanilla and couldn't possibly have violated any of their policies, then bringing me back and throttling me.
• 19:48
  But there was more too.
• 19:50
  There was impersonation channels that were up, two of which were both monetized.
• 19:55
  One was posting all of my content, um, of which they didn't find any.
• 20:00
  Problem with, um, but it was monetized.
• 20:02
  I couldn't get that content down.
• 20:04
  Um, I went through all the different channels.
• 20:07
  It was when you did a good Google search, it came up first.
• 20:10
  Uh at my my original content came up nowhere, but all that stuff did.
• 20:14
  You go to Google Gemini, is that really Sarah Westall?
• 20:17
  Yes, that's Sarah West.
• 20:18
  So why do you know what Sarah West saw?
• 20:20
  All these things are why it is because it has source, you know, links back to all these, all these reasons why it's Sarah Westell because Google wouldn't possibly do something like this, right?
• 20:31
  Of course not.
• 20:32
  Yeah.
• 20:32
  And so, well, uh, so I I had to sue them.
• 20:36
  I had well, I had three letters for my turn after going through their customer service ignored, going through the formal DMCA um takedown process with five different letters and uh emails and stuff, and they ignored that.
• 20:49
  They ignored two letters for my attorney to take these down.
• 20:52
  My third one after I threatened to soon we're suing you, screw you, we're suing you.
• 20:57
  They finally took it down and um reinstated my channel.
• 21:01
  But we are still in the lawsuit, but that didn't end there because they had me uh shadow banned and restricted.
• 21:09
  They also did not, for some reason, their Google Safe Search was not implemented when it came to me.
• 21:16
  And we all know that Rumble is I don't know, we all know, but Rumble's videos don't come up on the Google search, and Rumble is in a lawsuit against them saying that's antitrust and you you can't just exclude our videos from all search.
• 21:29
  But when it came to me, Rumble videos came up and the rumble videos that came up was porn star confession videos with my name next to it.
• 21:38
  Oh my goodness.
• 21:39
  Yeah.
• 21:39
  First page Google search results.
• 21:41
  If you did Sarah Westall podcast, a bunch of that came up.
• 21:45
  And um, that was up for at least a couple weeks because I don't know how long it was up, at least two weeks after I identified it.
• 21:52
  And I had, you know, like our our joint friend Renette Zenom, who's in California, I'm in Minnesota.
• 21:56
  I had people in Texas look at it.
• 21:58
  It was all over the country.
• 21:59
  It wasn't just me seeing that.
• 22:02
  It was them seeing it too when they were taking uh video recordings of it.
• 22:06
  And I was also, yeah, so I was in Sacramento, and I think um Renette, wherever she is in California, and then in Austin, Texas area.
• 22:13
  There's many different areas I had to look for that because I wanted to make sure it wasn't just me seeing it and that we could identify it.
• 22:19
  But what that shows is that their Google Safe search didn't strip out porn uh material when it came to me.
• 22:26
  And so their sensors there, which is I I know what it's as a as a systems architect, it's not hard.
• 22:34
  Just your Google Safe Search should not falter when it came to just me, right?
• 22:40
  And for some reason, Rumble videos came up when it was just me.
• 22:44
  And there was even worse stuff than Porsche confessions.
• 22:46
  I mean, there was stuff I won't repeat um uh on air because it's so crude and so disrespectful that I won't repeat it.
• 22:55
  And uh what I'm learning is that they and Google Gemini is when it told me this.
• 23:00
  I was doing research with them, and they're saying that's like a smoking gun, Sarah.
• 23:04
  They all they took down their Google Safe Search, allowed hackers to exploit the vacuum that's now there.
• 23:12
  And um, I did more research into it, and their engineers know it's a it's a loophole and a problem, and they allowed it to happen.
• 23:20
  So, but the problem is the courts uh we need sophisticated people in these court systems who aren't corrupt that can see this.
• 23:29
  You know, if I tell an average person that this is what's really going on, they glaze over, they don't understand it.
• 23:35
  You you have to it's so sophisticated that the courts don't get it, and they trust this what Google saying, well, trust me, we didn't do anything wrong, right?
• 23:45
  Trust us.
• 23:47
  And I think I think we're we're hitting a point in history where trust us doesn't work any longer.
• 23:54
  And the you know, it will be a big win for our side to just get discovery.
• 24:03
  I want discovery because no matter where this thing ends, getting to discovery is a huge win for everybody.
• 24:11
  And that's what we need because we've been shut down.
• 24:14
  These courts have been so controlled that we've been shut down.
• 24:17
  As soon as anybody does anything, they shut it down and say they have immunity.
• 24:22
  Section 230 didn't give them immunity to abuse me on an international scale.
• 24:27
  It didn't give them that that kind of immunity.
• 24:30
  It didn't give them the immunity to shut down businesses and decide who the winners and losers are across our entire country and world.
• 24:38
  That's not what this immunity, that's not what Section 30 didn't give them the right to destroy our entire entire constitution and free enterprise.
• 24:46
  It does not give them that right.
• 24:48
  And so this, these are important lawsuits to just take back basic freedoms, period.
• 24:56
  Yeah, you mentioned, you know, with me being one of the disinformation dozen that was mentioned.
• 25:01
  I was the only person that Biden mentioned by name, probably because I have a catchy last name that he could remember, you know, of the and our lawsuit is going along, and we're almost to the place of discovery, also.
• 25:13
  They we're we're suing Facebook and Google and um Meta, and I think there's one other one other company, and it's um it's moving forward, and all of them have troops and troops of lawyers trying to shut us down to sure trying to move the jurisdiction from Florida to California, which would be in their favor.
• 25:32
  And so we're fighting that.
• 25:34
  But we've we've been doing pretty well.
• 25:36
  In fact, Jeff Childers is uh is our represent and his children's law firm is the one that's representing us.
• 25:42
  And um, so I just want to say this very before we go to the break that the disinformation has a dense uh has a has a GoFundMe that's going on.
• 25:50
  And 100% of the money from the GoFundMe goes to legal fees, and it's just simple things like every when they have to uh uh file a response response to uh to lawsuits.
• 26:02
  There's like 15 lawyers on the other side of the aisle, and each one of them has to get an individual copy of what this response is.
• 26:09
  And the response is maybe 40 pages long times 15 people.
• 26:13
  So that's paper and ink and copying and postage and you know, it's just uh endless amount of money, and that's you know what these big companies try to do to us little people who are trying to file us against them is to you know, they just try to bankrupt you or take all your money or just get you worn out to where you say just forget it.
• 26:32
  I just I just can't do it anymore.
• 26:33
  But we have to keep going, as so do you.
• 26:35
  And our GoFundMe for people that that are interested and want to support what we're doing is GoFundMe.com forward slash deliberate dash dozen.
• 26:45
  Deliberate dash dozen is what our GoFundMe is.
• 26:48
  And so uh we hope that some of you are listening to this.
• 26:51
  Do you have a GoFundMe, Sarah?
• 26:52
  Are you raising money for your lawsuit too?
• 26:55
  Well, I probably need to have one.
• 26:57
  I mean, right now they can donate to me.
• 26:59
  Yeah, I paid, I paid the original chunk on my own because I'm just like, I just got to go forward.
• 27:04
  And I raised um a couple hundred thousand when I took I led a lawsuit to the Ninth Circuit with a bunch of us that got kicked off.
• 27:12
  And um, I now I'm doing this on my own, and I just I get so tired of asking people for money, you know.
• 27:18
  I'm like, I'm just gonna put in a lot myself.
• 27:21
  But if we get to this point, that this next phase, um, I don't I don't have endless money, so I'm gonna need some help on it, right?
• 27:29
  Well, you need to go set that up, and we'll help to support you to get you get money raised because these are issues of our times, and these aren't just about you, and they're just not about me and the disinformation doesn't.
• 27:41
  This is about our constitution and our ability to maintain integrity, freedom of speech, and to not let these big big organizations, these big tech companies just shut us down just because they can because of their money and their power.
• 27:57
  I would say it's a civilization level thing.
• 28:00
  I think it's that serious.
• 28:02
  I totally agree with you.
• 28:04
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• 28:06
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• 36:29
  So welcome back to the show for the second part here.
• 36:32
  Let me change gears a little bit, especially since you live in Minnesota.
• 36:37
  What's going on up there regarding to the fraud investigations and arrests?
• 36:41
  I mean, it was like explosion and then silence.
• 36:44
  We haven't really heard much more about it.
• 36:47
  We we think that some of the protests have died down.
• 36:49
  We're they're still getting rid of some of the illegals.
• 36:52
  But what's happening to the 17 billion dollars that evaporated?
• 36:56
  I don't know, but I sure would like to have that fraud be on the center of the news again.
• 37:02
  I think it was used as a flash point for their narratives, right?
• 37:07
  It it and that they got everybody up in arms from all over the place looking at the mistakes of ice.
• 37:16
  Okay.
• 37:16
  When you're taking down hundreds of thousands of people across the country and thousands in Minnesota, you're gonna have a certain amount of mistakes and you're gonna have some bad apples.
• 37:27
  And if all you focus on is the mistakes, while you have these people that are in their face hardcore, you're gonna have you're gonna create this problem.
• 37:38
  And so if you sat and you listened to NPR, you would have thought that these were literally Nazis coming in to take away good people who are just hardworking, who are like the Anne Franks of this world.
• 37:49
  In fact, they even use a 12-year-old girl and compared her to Anne Frank.
• 37:54
  They were doing that 24-7, right?
• 37:56
  So that was their that was their narrative of what they were trying to do.
• 38:01
  And uh, I mean, who doesn't want criminals off our street, right?
• 38:05
  We we have to.
• 38:06
  I think the right went too far, and they started bashing everybody under the sun too, calling Somalians garbage.
• 38:13
  They went too far, and I don't know if that's on purpose, too, to create this division.
• 38:17
  Most people don't think that people who are Somalian are just automatically garbage, and they also um want the criminals off the street, right?
• 38:26
  That's the middle ground.
• 38:27
  That's like the sane ground.
• 38:28
  And so I want ice there taking criminals off the street, and but I don't want you calling everybody under the sun garbage because they're from a particular country.
• 38:38
  And so I think we created this perfect storm of BS that they could use to fight and create a narrative, and the average everyday person was disgusted.
• 38:48
  I think that's what happened.
• 38:50
  And in the meantime, the real important things like the fraud network, where they truly are using these NGOs and these uh charity groups, and uh they're stealing so much from us, allowing criminals to be there.
• 39:05
  Minnesota was a sanctuary city, not only for illegals, but for abortion and for transgender issues.
• 39:12
  So we are in this weirdo alliance up here of I don't know what they're I think it's an experimental.
• 39:21
  I covered this about three years ago at conferences.
• 39:24
  You know, this I said this is the most extreme legislation in the country, and it's coming for you.
• 39:29
  Is what I said.
• 39:30
  And I think it's coming for a lot of the 18 other states that are coming.
• 39:33
  They're really working hard to get this extreme legislation through that is much like Canada.
• 39:38
  And the average person here in Minnesota doesn't agree with it, but they're so in a bubble with this media control network that they don't even know what's really going on.
• 39:49
  They don't know.
• 39:50
  And if they're not developing critical thinking skills, they think that Nazis are literally coming in and taking people away.
• 39:57
  And that's because they're focusing on the 12 mistakes.
• 40:00
  Mistakes that the ice made, right?
• 40:01
  And then they're blowing it out and they're doing it 247, and it looks like everybody under the sun is being falsely accused when they're really citizens.
• 40:08
  And so, and you all you have to do is plant a couple bad apples, too.
• 40:12
  You don't even know who the bad apples are.
• 40:14
  They could be planting the apples.
• 40:15
  You don't know.
• 40:17
  But the problem is I don't want criminals in our in my state.
• 40:21
  I don't want criminals anywhere.
• 40:23
  The fraud is over the top.
• 40:25
  I did uh interview with Senator Fincham from Arizona talking about how deep the mortgage fraud is across the country, where they were using these NGOs and these uh networks to take out a mortgage for like 600,000, right?
• 40:40
  Mortgage, which is a fairly standard mortgage, especially in higher end cities, uh, more expensive cities that that is.
• 40:46
  And then there would be a parallel transaction for like 60 million dollars.
• 40:51
  That's the fraud and the laundering.
• 40:53
  That's the common thing that we're seeing going on.
• 40:56
  And it's hiding behind these transactions.
• 40:59
  And in Minnesota, we were seeing it with all these um charity groups and networks.
• 41:04
  What Doge uncovered with the fraud is was incredible.
• 41:08
  It's really important.
• 41:09
  Now, I don't know what necessarily completely trust what their goals are with covering this fraud.
• 41:14
  Are they bringing in a technocratic uh government system and taking down this system?
• 41:20
  Are two big global factions fighting?
• 41:22
  I think that's true.
• 41:24
  And um, do we need to take down this corrupt fraudulent system?
• 41:28
  Yes, we do, but we also need to hold account the other guys to make sure they don't strip our freedoms away either at the same time.
• 41:35
  So we have multiple things going on, but without people being educated and informed on this, while most of us are censored and shadow banned and sidelined, we're screwed.
• 41:47
  Yeah, and you know, and then there's the collateral damage, you know.
• 41:50
  When Trump said, well, we're just, you know, until we get this figured out, we're just cutting off all money going to support Medicaid and child care centers and autism centers and things like that.
• 42:00
  I mean, I have a friend, you know, Jen Larson, Jennifer Larson, who has three different autism centers that she's built over 20 years.
• 42:08
  And what she says is that in her centers, they take the most severe autistic kids, the ones that nobody else will take them and nobody else wants them.
• 42:18
  They're they're violent, they have to have, you know, 24 hours of supervision, and you know, really, they are really specialized severe cases.
• 42:27
  And she hasn't had gotten any Medicaid money for three months.
• 42:30
  She's had to fund large payrolls out of her own pocket.
• 42:34
  And the last time that I talked to her, which was probably maybe three weeks ago now, and she testified in front of Congress.
• 42:41
  Um, she was on Fox News, she was on all these places saying, please don't hurt people like me who are doing good things for the most severely autistic kids in the location of where I am.
• 42:54
  You're hurting us because of the fraud that someone else committed.
• 42:58
  And she was about to shut down her centers.
• 43:00
  She had unpaid leave going on with people, and where are those kids going to go and what's going to happen to those families?
• 43:06
  What's going to happen to those employees?
• 43:08
  I mean, the collateral damage that nobody's really talking about because that's she's, I think she has three, maybe four centers, but she's one person.
• 43:18
  And she mentioned that she was in a collap collaborative of like 20 other business owners that have several similar types of businesses, and they've been cut off from the money too, and they've done nothing wrong.
• 43:29
  Nothing wrong.
• 43:30
  And that's the sad part is that the level of fraud that we're seeing in the state is so extreme that they are coming in and taking an axe to everything, and there's good people caught up into that environment.
• 43:46
  And that's not okay either.
• 43:48
  But when so it's this perfect storm of garbage, right?
• 43:52
  We have to figure out how to figure, we have to find out who the good players are and not hurt them because that's an angel working.
• 44:00
  I mean, these are angels working with autistic kids.
• 44:02
  I mean, these are great people, and we're hurting great people who have already put themselves out there nonstop, right?
• 44:10
  It's like these people need to be lifted, not held down.
• 44:14
  But that's where the NPRs come into play and they use that.
• 44:19
  They use that as a means to keep their corruption going.
• 44:24
  It's so ugly and so awful.
• 44:26
  And they're not pointing to, instead of pointing to um, let's get rid of the fraud, they're saying it's isolated and not very big.
• 44:34
  Meanwhile, they're pointing at all this other bad stuff to try to get ice out of here instead of cooperating with them so that people like your friend isn't hurt while we can still get rid of the fraud and the abuse.
• 44:46
  It's it's asinine to watch it go on.
• 44:49
  And to me, that's the most evil is when they take that and use it to commit crime.
• 44:54
  And I can't understand.
• 44:56
  Maybe you're you're more boots on the ground about these things than I am.
• 45:00
  But it's just hard for me to understand how there are people who live in America who are Americans who are fighting to keep illegal criminals here and fighting against ice and saying we're not gonna cooperate, we're gonna keep those people here.
• 45:15
  I mean, what is the end game in that?
• 45:17
  And what is the purpose of that?
• 45:20
  The purpose is they're completely in a bubble.
• 45:22
  And the media, I've been listening to the NPR, that's why I keep bringing up NPR and the local media.
• 45:27
  They are completely in a bubble.
• 45:30
  And the uh they're making ice look like they're a bunch of Nazis and focusing on their mistakes, and you can even feed people in to make mistakes on purpose or do whatever.
• 45:39
  I don't know, but the there's mistakes going on, and there's bad apples, and that's all they focus on.
• 45:46
  And then they're not told the other side of the story at all.
• 45:50
  And that's where I was saying that that NPR and these people, these media companies are using cases like your friends against it to allow criminals to maintain here.
• 46:00
  They're not being um uh they're they're just not being genuine.
• 46:05
  They're not saying I want to get rid of crime, I want to get I we will work with you.
• 46:09
  Let's get rid of these criminals.
• 46:11
  I don't want human traffickers in our state.
• 46:13
  Let's get rid of them.
• 46:14
  I don't want people committing fraud in our state.
• 46:17
  Instead, they're ignoring the human trafficking, they're ignoring the drug trafficking, they're ignoring the fraud and only focusing on those mistakes, and these guys are Nazis.
• 46:26
  And then that's what these people, that's why it gets back to freedom of speech.
• 46:31
  While the the reason they're able to do this is because they're suppressing voices like us and not allowing these good natured people to hear the truth and to hear at least both sides and to hear something, and they're not even willing to good faith work with people to say, let's get these criminals off the street, let's end this fraud.
• 46:50
  I think that there's a lot of bad apples that are in politics who are benefiting and getting greased in the background.
• 46:57
  And then they're using the media and this this emotional, they know how to emotionally get to these naive people who are not very informed, and then they become their minion mob.
• 47:09
  And this minion mob would be horrified if they knew what it was that they're fighting for.
• 47:14
  I totally agree.
• 47:16
  Do you ever think on any level?
• 47:18
  I mean, we talk about um like Fauci and Burks and you know, Collins and all of those people, and then now you go down the line over into like what Newsom has done.
• 47:30
  They say that the fraud in California is even worse than in Minnesota.
• 47:33
  What's happening in Minnesota, what's happening in other states?
• 47:36
  They're trying to pass this pesticide immunity bill to, you know, let the pesticide companies spray 55,000 chemicals unregulated on all of our food and in our air and in our water, that 10% of those have already been banned in Europe and EU.
• 47:52
  I mean, all of these things that are just crushing down on America.
• 47:57
  Do you think there really really is going to ever be any accountability for these for what for the people that are doing these things to the American people?
• 48:06
  Well, first I want to talk about it being worse in Minnesota or worse than Minnesota.
• 48:10
  And I want to say that Minnesota is smaller, so I think percentage-wise, but it might be, I mean, I don't know, because I know when they were doing the um sending sick people into nursing homes, Minnesota had the largest percentage per um capita, and we were extended two months longer than every other governor, but yet they skate, skated and didn't talk about it in the media.
• 48:30
  I don't know how we got around that.
• 48:31
  We also also have Keith Ellison, who used to be the head of the DNC, he's our attorney general.
• 48:36
  I think they went after Minnesota um because we are smaller and we the same reason they use us as a test bed is the same reason they went after us.
• 48:47
  So I think it's um that was a political strategy move.
• 48:51
  I think California and New York are larger, more powerful, so they're harder to go after.
• 48:55
  I think um from uh corruption standpoint because they're larger and bigger, they have Silicon Valley, they have Wall Street in those two places, which are big power centers in our country.
• 49:06
  They um are strategically going after them differently.
• 49:10
  And uh I think that the corruption level that could be involved with that is uh deeper and more impactful for the country because of those two reasons.
• 49:19
  And I think that can will we ever get past it?
• 49:22
  We're not gonna get past it when we have things like the Jeffrey Abstein case not ever being prosecuted.
• 49:27
  This these are very real crimes.
• 49:29
  These people, the blackmail network.
• 49:31
  I I did a thing, you know, circling back to detective Rothstein back in 2016, 2017.
• 49:37
  I quote I was the first one to to bring out the phrase blackmail is a currency of the powerful.
• 49:42
  That is a very true statement, and I think people are seeing that now without fixing this underlying black male power system that's in place, uh, and is holding people accountable.
• 49:55
  We we aren't gonna thrive as human beings.
• 49:58
  I mean, we're gonna be stuck in this.
• 50:00
  This corrupt cesspool of incredible crime and evil when these are the kinds of people that are running our country.
• 50:07
  And Epstein is just the tip of the iceberg.
• 50:09
  I mean, that's the first.
• 50:10
  I was in Rothstein's driveway the day Epstein committed suicide in quotes.
• 50:14
  And he said to me, Sarah, this is just the tip of the iceberg.
• 50:18
  But what's important about this case is it shows you how the operation is actually running.
• 50:23
  And it shows you how these things actually work.
• 50:26
  And until we start to detaw this and hold people accountable, we aren't going to make a difference.
• 50:33
  This has to get out.
• 50:34
  And we have to fight shoulder to shoulder with even the people on the other side of the aisle.
• 50:39
  The people with the blue hair and the rings in their noses.
• 50:42
  We need to fight side by side with them because they don't want child predators running around either.
• 50:48
  They don't want this kind of evil festering.
• 50:52
  And nobody is safe when this is these are the type of people running our world.
• 50:59
  Well, amen to that.
• 51:00
  I mean, I couldn't have said it better myself, because it's really true.
• 51:03
  I mean, the the cesspool that that has been allowed to happen inside of our country over the years that I've had several uh different people on my show that we've we've talked about the degradation of the of the educational system in this country, the degradation of the spiritual uh values in this country.
• 51:22
  You know, I remember growing up when I was in the fourth grade.
• 51:25
  My teacher was a was a nun who was one of those nuns that would take a ruler and smack your knuckles on the back of your hand.
• 51:32
  But we started every day, and we walked into class and we said the Pledge of Allegiance, and we said uh I think it was the Our Father that we said, and most of the people in the class were not Catholic, but we they did it anyways, you know.
• 51:44
  And so when they threw uh, you know, God and the Bible and out of the out of the schools and and they made the churches too wishy-washy and set the set the world on set the America on fire with the abortion rates that have gone up and all the things that have happened here.
• 51:59
  It's like the the core values of our system have just been rotted.
• 52:05
  I mean, we don't even teach history much in school anymore.
• 52:08
  We don't talk about civility and civil classes of what civil society is supposed to look like.
• 52:15
  And our courts have been captured and corrupted.
• 52:18
  You know, it's um it it it's there's so many elements that need addressed and need to be brought forward into a just a holistic umviolent environment that it's almost like where do you start with this?
• 52:35
  It's really it's it's really a challenge.
• 52:37
  Well, we have to clean up what what I just said.
• 52:40
  I think you you can't have that level of corruption on top.
• 52:44
  And um, they you know, our founders said that our constitution isn't gonna work without an ethical people, a moral people.
• 52:53
  And that's just basic.
• 52:55
  And basic morality and ethics cross all religions.
• 52:59
  So we're not necessarily saying that you only have to be Christian, but you do have to have a moral base.
• 53:04
  You can't view child trafficking as something that is uh, you know, okay, depending on how you look at it.
• 53:11
  And I've had too many people saying that everything is okay depending on how you look at it.
• 53:16
  And I'm like, no, it's not okay.
• 53:18
  We need to know what that red line is.
• 53:20
  Hurting children is not okay.
• 53:23
  And I don't care where you are.
• 53:25
  If you think that's okay, you don't belong here.
• 53:28
  You belong in prison, period.
• 53:30
  And if you're implementing and if you want that opinion, you better not act on it because as soon as you act on it, you're going away.
• 53:36
  That's the attitude we have to have because you can't have a civilization without clear-cut understanding of what these red lines are, and that's a clear red line.
• 53:46
  Defrauding people, stealing from people.
• 53:48
  I'm working with uh Miles Franklin, Andy Sheckman on helping people get their IRAs back because they've been scamming this big gold, you know, silver rush that's happening.
• 53:58
  A lot of people put their IRAs, their entire life savings in these IRAs, and we they'll have something like a million dollars, and it's worth like 400,000.
• 54:07
  They're just stealing their IRA money or their life savings.
• 54:10
  And we've been we're helping people.
• 54:12
  I've had hundreds of people come in and we're helping people get their life savings back.
• 54:15
  That's a red frickin' line.
• 54:17
  You know, these are red lines, and we have to understand as a society what are red lines.
• 54:23
  And we have to, we used to understand these things.
• 54:26
  You can differ all you want.
• 54:28
  I'm a libertarian leading person.
• 54:29
  You can do whatever the hell you want.
• 54:31
  You can become a woman or a man if you want if you're an adult.
• 54:35
  I don't care, do it.
• 54:36
  But don't force it on children who haven't the mind to make that decision and make a decision when they're 12 that they never want to reproduce again.
• 54:45
  We have to understand where these lines are.
• 54:48
  And we gotta get that back.
• 54:50
  I totally agree.
• 54:52
  Well, Sarah, we've got about two minutes left.
• 54:54
  Final words on this whole topic, these great topics we've been talking about today.
• 55:00
  Okay.
• 55:00
  Well, I you know, I think we got a lot of good people out there.
• 55:03
  They're listening to you.
• 55:04
  They they are, they understand, they're good, they're in there.
• 55:07
  We need them to help them get involved as much as possible.
• 55:11
  They need to help us.
• 55:12
  We need to help them.
• 55:13
  Everybody needs to form communities.
• 55:15
  And like I said earlier about understanding the black boxes of these algorithms.
• 55:20
  Don't be afraid to learn some science and engineering and and get involved that way.
• 55:26
  You don't necessarily have to have a degree to start to engage in that way.
• 55:30
  You we've got to get more people informed.
• 55:32
  But please support me and the work that I do.
• 55:35
  You can go to Sarah Westall dot substack.com or Sarah Westall.com, sign up for my newsletter.
• 55:40
  Um, also share my work, subscribe.
• 55:43
  I'm suppressed just like you are.
• 55:44
  That's why I'm suing.
• 55:46
  Uh, the only way that with this information gets out there is if we share it and we help each other get this information out.
• 55:52
  So thank you so much for having me on your platform.
• 55:55
  I really appreciate it.
• 55:56
  Well, I really look forward to sign, I'll sign up for your Substack and get other people directed over in that direction too, because the information that you bring out and the people that you have access to that you interview on your show are just over the moon.
• 56:09
  I mean, they're just really, really good interviews, thought provoking, and it's just exactly what we need today.
• 56:14
  We need people to think.
• 56:16
  Imagine that.
• 56:18
  Just think.
• 56:19
  Yeah, and I don't, I don't tell you exactly what to think.
• 56:22
  I just try to give you stuff and say, well, think about it.
• 56:24
  What is this?
• 56:26
  A hundred percent.
• 56:26
  And that's but people have to think.
• 56:29
  They have to get their heads out of their phones and uh off of their Xbox and do some critical thinking and put some of those uh skill sets in place.
• 56:38
  So, Sarah, I want to thank you so much for joining me here today.
• 56:41
  This has been a great conversation.
• 56:43
  It'll be really, really good uh now and in the future.
• 56:46
  So with that, I close out with my one of my favorite verses from the Bible I close all my podcasts with, which is Romans 12 12.
• 56:52
  Rejoice in hope, be patient in trouble and be persistent in prayer.
• 56:56
  Remember to lean into God, trust him, he will never let you down.
• 57:00
  We'll see you tomorrow right here on AmericaOut Loud.news and iHeartRadio.
• 57:04
  You can listen to our shows on X on Rumble and on Instagram.
• 57:08
  You can also find them on DR10penny.com.
• 57:10
  So we'll see you here tomorrow or the next time on the 10penny files.
• 57:14
  Have a great rest of your day, everybody.
• 57:16
  Goodbye and God bless.