Latest / GAIN Momentum / The APAC Executive and Deploying Tech in Asian Hotels | with Silvio Reale

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The APAC Executive and Deploying Tech in Asian Hotels | with Silvio Reale · GAIN Momentum

• ​GAIN Momentum episode #80: The APAC Executive and Deploying Tech in Asian Hotels | with Silvio Reale === Adam Mogelonsky: Welcome to the GAIN Momentum Podcast, focusing on timeless lessons from senior leaders in hospitality, travel, food service, and technology. I'm joined today by two fellow gain advisors, Silvio Reale from Bangkok, Thailand, and Brendon Granger from Sydney, Australia. How are you doing? Brendon Granger: Adam, how are you doing? Adam Mogelonsky: Doing great! Silvio Reale: Good morning. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Good morning. Good evening. Um, whichever time zone it is, right? We're all making it happen. Brendon Granger: That's it. Do it again. Adam Mogelonsky: the, well, the, the, I mean this is the whole nature with hospitality is that it's, it really is 24 hours and, uh, we can talk about sleep issues later on down the line, but here we're supposed to talk about the technological nuances. APAC in your respective areas, Australia and Southeast Asia. So let's start with a little bit on your backgrounds in hospitality and hospitality technology. Uh, Sylvia, if you wanna start things off. Silvio Reale: Yeah, sure. Um, it's great to be here. You know, I, um, I stepped into this region some 30 years ago, so I've been in Asia a long time, and I like to say I'm more Asian now than I'm more Australian, Italian. Um, but I fell in love, I guess, with hospitality in, in the 2000 period, um, in early 2000. Um. Prior to that, you know, I worked with the big multinationals like Honeywell and Siemens, always in the automation space. And I just kind of touched hospitality in the sense of, um, providing a, a thermostat to To a hotel. And then I guess that's where I started to realize that a thermostat was not gonna cut it. But, uh, yeah, being in Asia, I have the, um, the luxury of, um, this really ha, you know, dispersonal experience. And, you know, I came from the industrial space where you would walk around with a hard hat and all sorts of goggles and you were worried when something fell onto you too. Walking into a, you know, a five star four seasons hotel. It was much more pleasant to have meetings in a, in, in a resort in Bali than it was on a chemical plant in, um, in Gladstone, for example. Uh, so yeah, that's, that's how I got into hospitality, moving from automation, um, into hotels in the early two thousands. And that's where I am now. Adam Mogelonsky: Interesting transition, Brendon. Brendon Granger: Um, Adam, I went, uh, straight into hospitality after, after school. Um, I loved business at school but didn't want to be in an accountant, and I don't, at the time I didn't know what drew, uh, me to hospitality, but, uh, hospitality degree operations, feasibility consulting, uh, that led me into it working for a number of different vendors. Um, and it wasn't until probably. 10 years ago, uh, going through some documentation. My grandparents, um, had always owned restaurants, but I found my grandfather's passport and he described himself as a Hotelier. Um, so he, he owned a hotel in Paris for many years, but, uh, in Australia I only ever knew him as a restaurateur. But, uh, yeah, that's my background. Adam Mogelonsky: Awesome. Let's, uh, hospitality is a bit of a calling, as you would say. Brendon Granger: I think second, second, second generation. It skipped a generation. Adam Mogelonsky: Skipped one. Well, sometimes it does, right? I mean, same thing with doctors and lawyers. Sometimes it skips a generation, Silvio Reale: I should add to that, coming from an Italian family, I think I grew up with hospitality. You know, Brendon, when you just me, that I, I grew with having lots of people at the, my. Who, you know, she's 85. She's still fit and healthy. She was the master of hospitality, always people at our house. And I guess somehow that gave me that, the grounding or the background to do what I'm doing now. Um, and, uh, you know, really enjoying getting that industry. Adam Mogelonsky: Cool. Well, I'm wondering to segue to hospitality technology, I'm wondering if you could first unpack through the lens of one hotel you like in your respective region. What makes that hotel unique for its region? And maybe a little bit on the culture of your region and how that's expressed through that hotel. Sylvia, do have any opening thoughts there for a hotel in Bangkok or in Thailand or in Southeast Asia in general? Silvio Reale: Well look there, there really are a lot. But you know, two that I currently that stand out, you know, and I'd like to say here in Bangkok and, and I'm maybe a little biased because I'm here, but you know, the CM. Siam at Siam, uh, is a fantastic hotel. It's a small boutique, uh, resort. It's right on the Chara River. Uh, it's very private. Um, in itself. It's a museum of Thai, um, of Thai art and Thai, um, architecture. Um. The service is very unique. You know, you can arrive by boat, you can arrive by car. Um, so, but what really distinguishes it is, is the, is that personal touch and everything is taken into account when, and, and I know the team there quite well, and I work with them quite, quite often. So that's one property. And from there I can say. The Chaum group who can give you everything from wellness and luxury and city living in their, in their property. But one thing that they don't compromise again, is that personal touch. That welcome, you know, so I talk, you talk to the owner and they call themselves Chaum Grand because they want that experience to be grand. And that's what's very unique about the hospitality, the hotels in Asia. More so because, because we can have a high. Guest to staff ratio. Staff to guest ratio. That's why you can get that, that personal touch. It's. In Thailand as part of the culture here? Uh, you know, again, being biased, I, I think that t themselves have this natural warmth and well and welcoming. It does, does sort of, you know, walk, you know, the, it's is similar in the Philippines, in in Vietnam, um, and Singapore, but in Thailand I think it's very unique. And so those two points and those two hotels I think really stand out. There are many others, of course, in a similar, in a similar fashion. Adam Mogelonsky: Brendon in any in Australia or uh, or New Zealand. Brendon Granger: Yeah, Adam, the hotel, uh, hotel and hotel group that I point to. Um, it's the QT in Sydney. I think we've talked about it before. It's part of the Ridges event. Um, which dates back to the 19 hundreds, like they run cinema groups here. But what's unique about the QT Sydney is it's, um, it's ient, it's cheeky, it's layback, it's cool. Um, you know. There is a use of technology when you get in the lift. If it's one person, if you're on your own, the music is, is queued to play. You know, are you lonely tonight? Or if it's a whole group of people, then it will be, um, you know, a party, uh, type song. And that's the lift has just got senses in it to determine, you know, what music it should be, playing. Um. It's an old, it's an old, um, retail building, so it's just eclectic in nature. But, the girls that greet you, um, at the street level, uh, beautifully, beautifully dressed and cheeky, they all wear red wigs. Um, it's, it is, I suppose it expresses the Australian culture itself that it is. Um, a little bit, laid back a little bit, you know, because, 'cause we all came from convicts originally at one point in time, sort of bit irreverent, you know, we, we thumb our noses to authority. Um, and so that, that QT have done it well. And there's obviously one in Singapore now as well, but born in Australia. Adam Mogelonsky: My, uh, my ancestors in Australia were not, uh, prisoners of Mother England, not Pammies. yeah. Yeah. You know, fingers crossed. Right? Uh, you know, that elevator example is really cool 'cause it reminds me of the classic workaround they had, which was, uh, the story goes, people were complaining that the elevators were too slow. They were too slow. So this whole team was put together to say, we wanna make a faster elevator. Let's make a faster elevator. And then some guy came around and said, no, no, no, just, just put mirrors in the elevator so people can look at themselves. Right? So it's almost the, the Disney solution to people waiting in line was not to make the lines move faster, but to make the lines entertaining. And that's the same principle, using technology in a creative way. Brendon Granger: Yep. It is. Silvio Reale: Yeah. Yeah. Certainly in Bangkok they do a lot of that. I mean, digital signage, you know, I loved this, this. The elevators here. There are some hotels that do that sort of stuff too. Lots of mirrors and they do magic things with those mirrors and digital signage. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. So cool. And you think that's the elevator experience, which is one little nuance that a lot of the hotels aren't even thinking about. So, uh, Silvio, back to you. Let's shift to technology here and let's talk. what is unique about technology to Southeast Asia that other people within and without maybe are not thinking about? Silvio Reale: The advantage we have in Southeast Asia is that we don't have legacy. So, you know, the industry in Australia, for example, render I'm stand corrected. And, and, and, and maybe the US does have some legacy. Um, and, and they tend to keep doing the things the same way. So my experience has been here that the Asian developer is, is ready to do something different. So I'd like to say that I'm kind of the godfather of technology here in this region. First to bring, to bring automation into, into our country, or bring automate, I mean, I take Thailand as an example. The work, the, the term GRMS. Guest stream management system is, you know, just didn't exist. No one knew what it was. That industry didn't exist. and I kind of kicked that off by educating, educating that market. And some of the, some of the first movers in, in, in Thailand were local brands. We presented a concept that was international and they went with it. So what's different about Asia? I think they take the risk. Yeah. Everything has to have an ROI and, and there is an ROI with the GMS system, there is an ROI. On, on investing in the right technology, and there is that appetite here to do it right and to be different, to be different to that other hotel down the road. Uh, so, COVID has accelerated. Adopt of technology. Now you do have early adopters and you have those who just sit on the fence and wait for everybody else to happen. And I think everyone's learned that during COVID, those are well waiting, got left behind because during COVID, many properties decided, let's do that stuff now. We don't know when we're gonna reopen again. We've got some money, we've got something here. And they, they took the risk to invest and have their properties ready, uh, to. Take the, that that came and I think that's good. So yeah. They're ready to take the, um, take the, the risk. They're looking for innovation and they're looking to do something different and better and, and be an icon for, for themselves or their family. As you know, a lot of, one thing maybe that a little bit different here is a hotel is an icon for the family here. As so, you know, you build a hotel and you tend to build it for your legacy family. So generally. You know, you, you need some money to build a hotel on these, and in, in, in Asia, there's lots of single families who own maybe 5, 6, 7 different properties. But it's a, it's a legacy that they will leave for the family that's, that, you know, that they have. And, and I think that's a little different. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, that's, that's an incredible insight. You know, I was just thinking about the whole idea of saving face. As a cultural aspect. And if hotels are not just assets, but they're a reflection of your family and of your life, then yes, you, you, you have a responsibility to make them as good as possible and to have them reflect your family values and, and the legacy you wanna leave on. And that's, that's a very profound insight and I wish that translated to the rest of the world. Silvio Reale: Yeah, I mean, just take Marriott as a brand, Mr. And Mr. Marriott, you know, I'm sure when they, when they envisage that, that's what they reflect in their brand. And I, and you're right, Adam. Um, you know, certainly I, I work with a lot. Of the local brands and their values are put into the property. how they treat their staff, uh, apart, you know, how they treat their guests is a, is a top priority, but it's also an icon and a beacon for them and their family. Adam Mogelonsky: Brendon, how does that differ from, uh, from down under. Brendon Granger: It's probably a little bit similar, Adam. It, it depends on the hotels. I mean, I, I referenced the event group, the Ridges group. You know, they're a local Australian brand. They've always used technology to their benefit. Um, I remember back in the early nineties, they were working on single guest profile back then on as four hundreds and system 36 ERs at each property. And you know, and there are hotel groups that still don't have that nail today, but so they put a lot of time in that and they saw that that was a real point of differentiation for them. I think what we have seen though, uh, certainly in the Australian market is as more brands come in, you know, Marriott, um, a core initially, to be honest, and I think I can say it, but the guys at a core in Australia would say, well, that's fine. What Paris. They can say whatever they want, but we're here in Australia and we'll do what we want. What, what I have noticed is that there's more compliance coming through. Um, they're probably following brand standards a little bit more, and I think it's probably related to obviously, um, legislation. Privacy. Cybersecurity is a big one. Of course, you know, everybody's. He's paranoid a, about cybersecurity and making sure that you are on compliant hardware, um, to, you know, for that, for that purpose. Uh, similar to Silvio , we don't have the, Asian wealth, but we do have a number of, um, influential people here. There's a, there's a plastic surgeon, Jerry Schwartz, a second generation Hotelier. He personally owns 17 hotels, or his family does. But his parents started that legacy and I had the privilege of working with his parents, uh, when I was a junior at a PMS vendor, and they bought a hotel in Kings Cross we were talking about before. Um, his dad was a dentist. He ran his dental practice out of, you know, like there was a retail level. And they went on to buy, I think three or four hotels. Um, and Jerry's expanded on that, and he owns probably one of the, um, most beautiful properties here in Sinnia. The Sael Darlene Harbor, um, is just a premium property, so it's a little bit similar. I mean, he's doing that obviously. Uh, there's a pride in, in taking on that asset. Or he actually purchased that from the developer brand new. Um, yeah. Silvio Reale: I mean, to add to that again, in Southeast Asia, uh, take Bangkok, actually most of the Asian. Regions, you know, the local brands have learned from the internationals and probably taken the best of them, um, and, and then created their own brand. And this is something also that's a little different here, that, that, again, it's to do with that safe face. But, uh, I would say particularly Bangkok here, that a local brand can match, uh, an international brand very easily. Um. When it comes to technology, standards, security, they all comply. Uh, I think, uh, the hotels have learned that particularly, again, post COVID. The technology is very important. So the adoption of technology is not as fast as we would like, but it is better and better understood today than it was before. And again, when you are building your first empire, you wanna do it right? So they go out and get the best, you know, I, I was with a developer recently who traveled the world and stayed at all different brands. And when I was talking about this and that, he would say, but I didn't see that. I didn't see that. And, and, you know, so, uh, or I did see that, or this was good, that was bad. So that's the other, the other thing that I think that, that is a little different about the Southeast Asian landscape. Brendon Granger: I think Adam in Australia a little bit. The US labor costs are significantly higher than they are in Asia. We need to use technology wherever we can to, you know, to streamline operations and, uh, you know, make sure the hotel's as efficient as it possibly can be. Silvio Reale: In it's similar. We have a different challenge. We have a language barrier between the guest and the staff. So this is where technology really helps it. It helps from streamlining the workflows, you know, simple things like a guest asking to send towels to the, to the guest room, or just, you know, I, I need my linen refreshed, or whatever. That can be a, a big task. and, uh, when you've got a 600 room hotel and, and 20% of those guests, even 10%, ask that you need the runners, you need the technology. But most of the, in the past, the problem was just the language barrier. Because the person on the phone didn't speak English and the person answering the phone didn't speak English. So that was the, and this is where technology really has changed a lot, because now you can use a line app or you can use WhatsApp, or you can use a, a hotel app and you can talk to it or text it in your own language, and the person on the other side can, can understand your request. So this is a, you know, a major breakthrough. And then. Integrating. You know, I, I was at a conference, uh, a couple of days ago. Integrations are there now. Everyone's integrated. That's a great thing. Not necessarily do all the integrations work as they should, but it's a must have today that if I pick up the phone and ask or text and I want something sent to my room, that it's, it's gonna happen. And if it's not happening within a certain period of time, that the duty manager, you know, hopefully doesn't get escalated to the general manager. But if it's necessary, it should. And that. Is becoming more the norm than, than, you know, it's a nice to have. So yeah, technology in Asia is, is also important and I feel it's, yeah, we don't, we still have the luxury of having more staff to guess ratio, but we also need the technology to help the staff do their job better. You know, again, staff really wanna take care of their guests and I've seen them sometimes really frustrated that they can't communicate. In the way that they would want to. Adam Mogelonsky: This is all incredible advice. If you un if you're able to unpack it in terms of just language barriers, saving on labor, everything. And I'm wondering for any technologists out there and they're thinking we're either trying to sell into Southeast Asia or Australia, or we're thinking about, uh, get, trying to make an impact in these, in these territories, what would you advise? Uh, those companies to pay attention to and to look at either, you know, anything from data compliance to knowing what, what motivates buyers, uh, you know, showing an ROI, what would you advise? Hmm. Silvio Reale: Alright, go ahead, Southeast Asia. First up, you need be patient. One of the, uh, experiences or that I've had is that that vendors come into this region and they feel that in six months they're, they're gonna have, they're gonna own the market, and they know nothing about the region. So you need to have patience, and you need, you need to also be ready to be, to localize your brand, localize your people. I if you're an international vendor and you want to do business in Asia, you need to understand Asia. There is a different way of selling here than you would have in the US or even Australia. Relationships are always important. Doesn't matter where, but there is certainly. You know, a very high building a relationship here. And you know, I, I, I can speak from experiences because I've, you know, I've moved from brain A to brain B and back to brain A, but yet I've kept the same customer sets. So you must build that relationship and that's, you know, for anyone that wants to come out here, one, you need to have patience and you need to have kind of semi long runway. 'cause it does take you some time to be that new player. Um, you need to. Be ready to localize your, your solutions and, and see how it fits in this market. So you need to do some studies and you know that relationship building is very important, which means you really need to understand the culture. And, and I always say I'm still in Asia because I just, able to, to fit into Asia. Maybe we, Aussies are better than other, than other nationalities, but there are. Like it and, and are successful in Asia or you're not. And uh, and I think part of it is, is that cultural, relationship building and being tenacious and being honest. Adam Mogelonsky: What about for, uh, down under. Brendon Granger: I'd echo that as well. You need to, to localize your product. Obviously there are certain, um, things in the Australian market if, uh, um, you know, tax is, tax is relatively simple. There are some other real estate type compliances. Um, having local knowledge is interesting. I mean, I've had people from Europe trying to sell product here, um, and post demo, the hotel has said to me. They've never worked in a hotel here. They just don't understand. They were talking about, you know, the person who sits in the housekeeping office waiting for, you know, a guest to ring up for towels. We don't have that luxury. There's no one sitting there in housekeeping ready to answer the phone. Um, so that, you know, they were put off by the fact that that person didn't know the market. So as to, to Sios point, having local. Representation, somebody you can work with. Um, and personally, I do that for a lot of overseas companies. That's my role. I act as ambassador, uh, for those companies. Um, timing, it does take time. You need to be patient. Um, relationships are really important. But I think the other thing is you need to be, Uh, flexible with integrations. You will find local property management systems in the Australian market that you have not come across before that are prevalent here. Um, and the other thing is you need to be flexible when it comes to pilots. You know, you're going to need to create a lighthouse, you know, for want of a better term with a, with a customer, because the first thing I find is it doesn't matter if the product is installed in. You know, thousands of sites in the US an Australian Hotelier will say, show me someone locally who's got it and who's achieved an ROI with that product. And it often takes, you know, you have to win someone over. And I suppose to Sylvia's point, uh, relationships are really important in the hospitality industry. Um, you know, I've, I've been lucky enough to work with GMs across four or five hotels. Every time they move hotel and open a hotel, they give me a call and say, Brendan, we're gonna need your help with this and with this, and with that. And that's all about relationship because they know at the end of the day that I'm gonna look after them and make a recommendation on an excellent product for them. Silvio Reale: I think that's a very cool point, that whatever, you know, you, you must be able to deliver and support that product. So if it's, you know, the lighthouse, um, example is very good. I mean, in Asia, we're always the first, and, and I'm probably, again, the, I always call it the startup guy again, I, I said earlier, the godfather of automation, but I brought in so many new products and we were the first ones, but you need to do it right. You need to be there and you need to deliver what you say. You do that and it's fine. And we've seen so many companies just, you know, I call 'em the Cowboys 'cause they come in and take, you know, bang, bang and, and they're out and they just don't survive. And, uh, so it's very unique. Uh, but it's very possible and it's great opportunities and, um, you know. Brendon and I are, you know, part of this GAIN organization. And, and, and that's why we're here because we know this market very well and we easily can, not easily, nothing is that easy, but we can certainly facilitate the business, um, because we are the local guys who, who have felt the pain of doing business in this region. Brendon Granger: Yeah, good point, Silvio. Adam Mogelonsky: So in terms of building those relationships and also getting local knowledge to understand the market specifically for technology, I've always found that the. The key first step is go to a trade show, see what's out there, meet with other vendors, attend seminars, everything. So for, again, for people who are listening, what, what trade shows would you advise for hotel technology? To get a land, to get, to get, uh, a lay of the land, right? Brendon Granger: Oh, oh, thank you. Sovia. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Brendon Granger: In Australia, there's, there's really only one, uh, predominant, um, hospitality show. It's no vacancy. Uh, it's been good for a number of years here. Um, it's a combination of technology and other hospitality products, but it's an, it's an excellent show. There is also something that was more of a, um. Sort of development, uh, show originally, uh, called Ahe, but it's now become probably a secondary education, um, networking event. It's held annually. It was literally just last week in Adelaide. It's probably in, its in its 15th year and it's now gone in Singapore, um, Japan, New Zealand as well. Um, so that's a good way to, to meet people, to work out who's who. having said that, you know, I've, I've worked with some overseas companies that have sort of gone to those shows and not been able to meet the people they want to. Um, whereas when I've gone with them, um, we're able to, because of leveraging the years of, um, you know, tenure in, in the industry, being able to, um, you know, arrange meetings for them. So that's Australia. Silvio Reale: Yeah, and I, I think it's even harder. Um. You'd mentioned Brendon, no vacancy. So for the first time, no vacancy now, which has uh, been a very successful hospitality event in Australia, is moving to Bangkok or moving to Asia. So in November and, uh, November 18th, no vacancy, a two day event will be hosted in, in Bangkok. And gain, of course, is the exclusive, not of course, we've become the exclusive networking partner, uh, with Terra. What's very, what's been missing in Asia? First up, there's nothing like a high-tech USA. There's lots of these little things that are going around. So the, so we now have a platform that can bring something like a HITEC to, to Asia. But on top of that, I think we're now, it gives us a, it gives the industry and gives this team that's running this no vacancy event, the ability to bring. The best in class thought leaders on stage to bring, you know, so far the vendors that have signed up for the floor space, they are top tier, you know, and, and, and also there are new startups that are going to also sign in as well. But with the, you know, as a team here teaming up with Terrapin and Gain and, and all of our friends in, in the industry, we've been able to, we're, we're structuring something that's gonna be very unique. So it's applied for, for that. This is what's been missing. What also has been happening in the region, if I, if I may add, is all these other events like ITB and Hicap and hc, they're all great. Um, however, I've gone to all of them and it's always the usual suspects. It's always the usual, usual format. That's what we want to change in the no vacancy event. That's our goal, and I think we. There are some new, new, uh, uh, new organizations. I, I'd like to give. The We Hub team in Vietnam who I think have created a, a great, uh, format and platform that they call Meet the Experts, which is, which is held two times a year. One in bank, uh, one in, um, in, uh, ho Chi Minh City, and one in No. And then they have what they call these Hoka, which is like the Oscars events, which are true networking events. With sea level people. We just had one in Bangkok, uh, last week. It was awesome. It was at the Ani, the brand new, and I invited some first timers and they were just amazed at the level. But it's really, and it's not hard sell, networking just happens naturally. But what, how that event is complimented. Is with, with a business section session prior to that. So, you know, uh, by invitation only because you, you don't want that session to be full of vendors. but the messaging is all about the market. And, you know, this particular messaging event was all about branded residences. So these sorts of things are happening, you know, in Dubai. Um. Plug for this guy for, for my good friend Petman. But the, the hospitality network runs a two day event, so things are happening in this region and, and that's great. and that's how we bring on stage, um, technology and where we have the opportunity also to give something back to educate, educate the market on the trends. And what should, you know, what people should be looking at by mixing the, the speakers with not only subject matter experts, but also true host hoteliers that you know, that live and breathe the technology every day. Adam Mogelonsky: That's a really good summary. So to close out here, uh, you mentioned trends, so let's focus on hotel tech trends that are upcoming. What do you both see that is that one cool thing that can really help hotels to innovate on a technology front for the next, let's say 18 months to two years? Silvio Reale: Well, I'll let Brendon talk about the trends, but something that I must say that I think is missing right now from the technology we talk, there's a lot of talk about sustainability in Asia, and some of it, I hate to say, but a lot of it's just greenwashing writing down some numbers and cleaning, you know, removing plastics is a good thing. What I'm seeing is, is kilowatt hours or electricity just. Wasted just air conditioning just flowing out into, into the open space. We still are not yet. Uh, and this is probably because there's no, there's no government incentive. This is, you know, above the equator. Um, energy costs are high, but we still, you know, I still see brand new hotels opened and they've got a key card in, in there as the energy saver, or I have nothing. So the air conditioning just runs every day, 24 hours a day. And, uh, so I would really like to see the, you know, this change. And I'm really an evangelist here, and I'm really passionate about this particular thing because I've been knocking on doors for a long time talking about this, and it just seems to, it seems just to be ignored. The chandelier in the lobby gets more attention and the bathtub gets more attention than putting in. Thermostat. Right. Adam Mogelonsky: Right. I was, I was gonna say, if you could, you know, with your knowledge in GRMS, could you offer a solution like, is it PIR occupancy sensors, or how would you solve that in from a 2025 prop tech and. Uh, system solution. Silvio Reale: Great question. So yes, the, the key card was a nineties, 1980 technology, or, or it was a very old technology. We now have what I call occupancy based LodgIQ, using PIR sensors or, or using, and you know, you don't need to have these high accurate microwave sensors, but you do need to have A-G-R-M-S platform that has. The LodgIQ ability to do all of the what if, what, what, what, what, what? You know, what if what? That, and the occupancy based LodgIQ having some motion sensors in the room, then detects that there's no one in the room. It then puts the air conditioning into some offset mode, which allows you to save energy. And of course it has an impact on the chillers, right? When we talk about energy savings, it's a, it's more than just what you're doing in the room, but if you manage that energy consumption in the room. Then you have a great opportunity, and we've been saying it for a long time, that you can save anywhere from 10% to 30%, and that's possible. And on top of that today, what's really good today is that it's validated. So there are systems out there that that are true energy management and measurement systems. So not only do they manage energy. Not only do, can they give you a dashboard that tells you all of this, but in real time, you know what the energy saving is per guest stay and how that relates to the CO2 that's being saved. How many trees have you saved by not running the air con or by reducing the energy consumption? And there's a whole lot of other things that you can do as well. So yeah, that's the way we're going. and it must work. And it does work. If you work with. Reputable international brands that understand the space. And, and that's one thing that I really point out, that there's lots of copycats, and those copycats are definitely lower cost, but there's always something that you're not getting. when the differential is too much, um, between the others. Adam Mogelonsky: Cool. Brendon, what about Australia? Brendon Granger: Well, Silvio and I share the passion with regards to. Sustainability. Um, it was actually a topic that I spoke, uh, did a solo presentation last year at no vacancy because similar in the Australian market, you know, we've talked a lot about sustainability, but we are reaching, you know, 2030, um, where we actually said that we would meet these Paris requirements. Um, so it's getting a little bit more serious here. There is legislation that you must have some form of, uh, energy saving, but to Silvio's point, uh. Too many properties are still using the key card, which is completely ineffective. Not only is it ineffective, what we're starting to see is more and more properties are moving to towards mobile key. When the guest gets to the room, because they've used them, their mobile device as the key, they've got nothing to put in that slot. So. That's creating workload for the staff because I know of one hotel that you know has 30, 40 rooms of corporates per night. Um, they have to go up at sort of 11 o'clock in the morning and put a key card into each of those slots. What they've now pretty much decided to do is don't bother doing that. We'll just leave them in, which negates all of the energy management. Full stop. But one of the trends I am starting to see here, Adam, um, and I think it's, it's. Probably a global trend, but our guests are choosing to communicate more and more now via SMS WhatsApp line, WeChat, depending on where they're from. And hotels up until now have been struggling to channel all of that communication into one point and to provide feedback in a timely manner. So. I'm working with the guys at Canary. Um, they have a unified, uh, platform. not only is it unified, but it's using AI to answer about 85% of those guest messages, um, which is really positive. 'cause we, you know, we've taken another solution out of a hotel that was unifying it, but then the staff still had to actually go in. Reply to each request and what they thought when they originally put the system in it was going to improve their guest feedback scores. It actually reduced them because obviously when a guest sends an SMS, they expect instantaneous feedback, not, they don't wanna wait an hour, two hours. Um, so that's certainly something, um, there's a lot, um, a lot of the technologies around obviously enhancing the guest experience. But also reducing labor costs wherever we can. there's a lot of pressure in the Australian market, um, on margins. You know, the cost of, we talk about the cost of living. At the end of the day, the cost of business has become higher as well. So whilst average rates have increased, post COVID, energy costs have gone up by 30%. Um, food costs have gone up substantially. Um, and labor costs, uh, have as well, so. We're starting to see robots come into play, particularly in housekeeping as well, in a number of properties just to help from a labor saving point of view. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. It's so incredible how much you can do with technology, but you, you're both, you know, brushing over hundreds of hours of work to solve and implement these specific solutions. So, you know, very commendable for being able to summarize it. Um, and even, even, you know, insider baseball, I was thinking just when I mentioned that, that for those who don't know, PIR passive infrared, you know, there's so much insider. Terminology and alphabet soup of the lexican of figuring all this out. for now, thank you both so much. This has been a delightful conversation. Um, truly fantastic advice, both in general for the technology that's upcoming and then for entrances in both, both of your respective regions. Silvio, thank you, Brendon. Thank you. Brendon Granger: It's been. Silvio Reale: Thank you, Adam. Thank you, Brendon..