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Applied Weight Loss Nutrition in Clinical Practice with Kira Sutherland · Wellness by Designs - Practitioner Podcast

0:12
SPEAKER_02: This is Wellness by Designs, and I'm your host, Amy Skilton.
0:16
SPEAKER_02: And joining us today is Kira Sutherland, who is going to be talking with us all things metabolic health.
0:25
SPEAKER_02: Now, Kira Sutherland is a sports nutritionist and naturopath of 30 years, and she specializes in athletes as well as metabolic health in general.
0:35
SPEAKER_02: I personally have referred a number of clients to Kira for sports nutrition, and she takes amazing care of them.
0:41
SPEAKER_02: And she is based in Sydney, but available online, of course, like most of us are.
0:46
SPEAKER_02: Now we are lucky enough to be having Ciara hosting a webinar for Designs for Health called Applied Weight Loss Nutrition and Clinical Practice from Physiology to Protocol.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: That's coming up in just a week.
0:59
SPEAKER_02: So by the time this episode comes out, that might be available to watch via replay.
1:06
SPEAKER_02: But Ciara, first of all, welcome to the podcast.
1:09
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me, Amy.
1:10
SPEAKER_02: Nice to have you.
1:11
SPEAKER_02: You too.
1:12
SPEAKER_02: It's such a pleasure.
1:13
SPEAKER_02: Always so fun to speak with you about nutrition as far as metabolic health is concerned.
1:20
SPEAKER_02: And probably the primary way most practitioners are working in metabolic health is fat loss or changes in body composition.
1:30
SPEAKER_02: And I know your webinar is going to be deep diving into many aspects of that.
1:36
SPEAKER_02: And today is really about the conversation around that what the landscape looks like for practitioners in the air quotes weight loss space now.
1:46
SPEAKER_02: And as someone who really is done a deep dive in this area and worked in it for a very, very long time, we're very lucky to have your expertise here.
1:56
SPEAKER_02: And I want to open the chat today by asking you what you're seeing as a clinician as far as mistakes being made in the weight loss space.
2:05
SPEAKER_02: Now, that could be the issues you're seeing like patients that are coming to you doing the mistakes they're making based on, you know, perhaps AI recommendations or Google searches.
2:16
SPEAKER_02: But as a broader conversation, what are you also seeing practitioners are missing when it comes to changing someone's body composition?
2:24
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's such a good question.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, I really think you know, as I'm going to speak as practitioners, because I mean we all have our clients showing up with way too much.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're showing up trying to be educated, and I kind of like that, right?
2:38
SPEAKER_01: That whether it's AI or Google, they are advocating for themselves and trying to learn.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: And then booking in with us, they've realized they need that next step to really fine-tune it.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: So I don't mind that they come in and it's, I enjoy the myth busting.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: I think that's part of our job rather than being so scared of how much info is out there for people.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: It's like, no, let me just clarify this for you.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: And because they get 60, 70% of it correct.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: And then you get to do that fine tuning.
3:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, as far as practitioners, I feel like a lot of people are scared of doing weight loss or fat loss or whatever body composition changes.
3:20
SPEAKER_01: It, you know, it's I supervise in student clinics still, as well as clinical practice and educating other practitioners.
3:28
SPEAKER_01: And it's amazing how many people will come through even student clinic, whether they're naturopaths or nutritionists, and they're like, I don't want to do weight loss.
3:36
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, um, that's like 80% of your clients.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: Let's fall in love with weight loss.
3:42
SPEAKER_01: So I actually think the number one mistake is not trying to fall in love with it.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's frustrating, yes, it's hard, but we know so much more now than we used to, and there's so many more tools online or just information.
3:57
SPEAKER_01: We just our understanding of metabolic health in the last decade is beautifully we just we understand so much more of what's happening.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: So I think the biggest mistake is not falling in love with it and then not being prescriptive enough.
4:14
SPEAKER_01: I feel like they give too general of suggestions, whereas the client can get that off of wherever their friends, family, internet.
4:23
SPEAKER_01: We need to be really specific.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not always talking calorie counting, but we need to specifically tell them what to do and not to, because that's what they're paying us for.
4:32
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I think that's great advice.
4:34
SPEAKER_02: And I think I can understand why, you know, practitioners perhaps shy away from it a little bit or feel nervous.
4:41
SPEAKER_02: And because it is a real, as you say, it's an area where we do need to be very specific.
4:46
SPEAKER_02: General information just doesn't cut it anymore.
4:48
SPEAKER_02: Um, in fact, it never did.
4:50
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, we've seen how move more, eat less is working out for everybody, and it's not.
4:56
SPEAKER_02: Well, speaking of which, it is so much more individualized than that.
5:02
SPEAKER_02: And something that you're going to be covering in the webinar that's imminently around the corner, is the common body composition types that you see.
5:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:14
SPEAKER_02: And of course, that's going to inform the kind of recommendations that person will receive.
5:21
SPEAKER_02: Can you just give us a few examples of the typical archetypes that you are treating around shifting body composition?
5:31
SPEAKER_02: And I'm interested to if there are sex-specific differences here too.
5:37
SPEAKER_02: What are you what are we looking at?
5:39
SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, there's so many different ways to look at body composition and archetypes of people.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, if you go back in traditional medicine, Ayurvedic, you know, split up.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm not teaching on Ayurveda, but it they split apart, you know, we all have different ratios of what we call doshas.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: I'm not going into that.
5:56
SPEAKER_01: But in the West, or you know, yeah, in the West, if we go and look at um body types like ectomorph, endomorph, that's a little bit hard to get your head around.
6:08
SPEAKER_01: So I'm actually gonna introduce um the system I understand with six body types, but I'm gonna quite simplify it for just looking at, you know, when we say we have to do individual medicine or individual health for people, looking at so we're gonna break it down by male and female or sign male, female at birth.
6:29
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna look at body shape, we're gonna look at muscle mass.
6:33
SPEAKER_01: Is this person, you know, by sex, we have different ratios of fast twitch to slow twitch fibers, which I know is not that big of a deal in it.
6:43
SPEAKER_01: Well, it is a big deal because it it depends how better we are at fat burning or not.
6:48
SPEAKER_01: We're also looking at, you know, where we store fat, depending on sex, um, how that makes us more metabolically flexible or not.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: So I really want to bring in kind of that big picture view of who has better access to doing what, and then how our hormones come in and interfere and help or don't help with such situations.
7:11
SPEAKER_01: And also just different body types have different.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go a lot into chrononutrition and you know, because we're not all supposed to wake at the same time and go to bed at the same time.
7:22
SPEAKER_01: We're not actually all supposed to have breakfast at the same time.
7:25
SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna go into the body types more likely to gain weight, and we're gonna look at their chrono-nutrition or chrono life that should be kind of focused.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: Because we all say to people, oh, circadian rhythm, you know, blue light, you know, we go through all the stuff, but we then don't individualize it.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: So I'm actually gonna try to take it to that next level of which even which systems get more stressed out, depending on body type and things like that.
7:57
SPEAKER_01: I hope that made sense.
7:59
SPEAKER_02: Yes, that makes perfect sense.
8:01
SPEAKER_02: And I really appreciate that there's those lenses to look at each of your patients through in order to triage what needs to be done and then refine it.
8:12
SPEAKER_02: I think, you know, circadian biology has had a huge um spotlight thrown on it in the last few years, which of course is incredibly powerful, but understanding your own particular biology is the level beyond that.
8:26
SPEAKER_02: So on the micro, micro scale.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:29
SPEAKER_02: I'm curious to know what is the most common patient type you see.
8:33
SPEAKER_02: Is there a threat or is it a bit of a mixed collection?
8:38
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it is mixed, especially if you're working with people hitting perimenopause and beyond, because the body types that kind of got away with a lot that have never had to look at weight loss, all of a sudden hormone cascades are changing, situation life situations are changing, and you know, we've all heard that what I used to do isn't working anymore.
9:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's a big thing because then you have these people who haven't had to be aware, now need to be aware.
9:08
SPEAKER_01: They don't always, they're not always the easiest clients to work with because they haven't had to worry about it in the past.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: Whereas, yes, there are two or three body types that are, you know, more sensitive to cortisol, more sensitive to stress, um, especially in the morning.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, and they will put on weight a lot quicker, harder to take it off, more likely to have thyroid issues.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, we are gonna kind of look at what that is and better rhythms for those people, definitely bringing it down, you know, even to the point of yes, we all know we need to eat protein.
9:43
SPEAKER_01: You know, I used to rabbit on about protein forever, and all my ex-students that are practitioners are always like, anytime I think of protein, I think of you.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: And it and now it's like, that is the big thing.
9:53
SPEAKER_01: And I wasn't, you know, I was just coming from a science background, always.
9:57
SPEAKER_01: But it's funny that it's now so prevalent.
10:00
SPEAKER_01: But there's there's minor changes on how you deliver the protein and the timing of it, depending on body type or what the person's trying to do.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: So it's also playing with that individually and you know, amounts and how to look at it, how to calculate stuff.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: That's I'm gonna go into that.
10:18
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, absolutely.
10:20
SPEAKER_02: That sounds fantastic.
10:21
SPEAKER_02: And I'm love to ask you a little bit more about hormones.
10:25
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I also love the fact that perimenopause is now something that has exploded across, you know, the internet, and women of our generation are quite happy to speak about it when previously it was very much a subject that you didn't talk about.
10:41
SPEAKER_02: Tell me, what are you seeing like hormonally, the the influences that are impacting women when they reach that chapter?
10:49
SPEAKER_02: And and you know, of course, there are women who've maybe struggled with weight their whole life, but for the others where things were quite balanced until that hormone started to shift, what are you seeing starts to get wobbly or out of relationship with the other hormones?
11:06
SPEAKER_01: I mean, well, there's always thyroid, right?
11:08
SPEAKER_01: We're always gonna have to look at that, but really looking at what is what has happened to their overall metabolism, not just thyroid, but how they're, you know, what's going on with their gut, how they're producing digestive enzymes versus what's going on with leptin and greelin and insulin resistance that wasn't there before.
11:29
SPEAKER_01: And all of a sudden it is because they're losing muscle mass and through dietary and lifestyle and stress.
11:36
SPEAKER_01: So that I mean, every hormone is just that whole cascading impact of loss of progesterone and then the nervous system, you know, everything having to resettle itself on a different level of hormones and the impact that that has, especially to their nervous system.
11:54
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that cascade of what can happen, right?
11:56
SPEAKER_01: So you're, you know, you can't regulate the nervous system as well, cortisol goes up a little bit, and then you're not sleeping as well, and then everything gets thrown out.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, I think, especially Perry and beyond, that cortisol melatonin sleep architecture is so, oh my gosh, so crazy tricky, but not if we go after it.
12:21
SPEAKER_01: It's just a lot of work, right?
12:23
SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
12:24
SPEAKER_01: I mean, slightly separate to this, but it's hilarious if you ever, you know, most of us are friends with a bunch of other naturopaths.
12:31
SPEAKER_01: But if you travel or go to a conference with naturopaths, it's hilarious if you share a house and you're all, okay, so my friends are all my age, which is period and menopause.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: The amount of stuff we would all show up, like our night protocol of what people are taking, is like, it's absolutely hilarious what goes on.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: And you know, in the and I'm laughing about that, but in the webinar, we are going into kind of especially top five things that I use.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: We will talk about more than five supplements or five nutrients, but it's just it's so funny the different combinations that people you know what I'm talking about, right?
13:11
SPEAKER_01: People, and I think it's just, but we are practicing what we preach, and you know, we're all working on it with our own bodies as well, right?
13:20
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
13:20
SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm traveling at the moment and I'm actually just laughing hysterically on the inside because I have a sleep kit that has my red blue blockers.
13:29
SPEAKER_02: I've got a little red light that I use instead of blue light.
13:32
SPEAKER_02: I've got melatonin, I've got mouth tape, I've got my magnesium oil, I've got my, you know, my essential oil stick.
13:39
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's it's hilarious.
13:41
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, this is just a like a rite of passage for perimenopause, I feel.
13:46
SPEAKER_02: And you you made a good point about the melatonin cortisol piece, because that also significantly influences leptin.
13:54
SPEAKER_02: I know, for you know, it's such a catch-22 because when progesterone starts to subside and the nervous system becomes a lot more sensitized, that impacts sleep.
14:05
SPEAKER_02: But knowing that leptin is required to dock between 10 p.m.
14:09
SPEAKER_02: and midnight to the hypothalamus if people are still awake or they've been exposed to blue light till 9 p.m.
14:13
SPEAKER_02: and then they switch the light off, you can inadvertently later too, right?
14:17
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, far too late.
14:20
SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
14:21
SPEAKER_02: You can be inadvertently setting these things up.
14:23
SPEAKER_02: And it's those habitual choices that can end up placing you down a row that you never intended to see yourself hit.
14:31
SPEAKER_01: No, and that leptin grelin, what signals what, and and just you know, we're learning so much more about it lately, too, with all the GLP1 um and other medication coming out.
14:42
SPEAKER_01: We are really getting into that finite of what the body is doing and how.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: And it's, I think it's such an interesting.
14:49
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've always been fascinated by weight loss.
14:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's such a fascinating area at the moment.
14:56
SPEAKER_01: It's like, and I don't even know what the percentages are anymore.
15:01
SPEAKER_01: 65, 70 percent of the population is overweight or obese.
15:05
SPEAKER_01: 80% are probably trying to lose weight, even if it's those last two or three kilos.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: It's just it's such an area.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: Like I say, you need to fall in love with it.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: I don't have to sell it to you, but um yes, yeah.
15:18
SPEAKER_02: Well, there isn't one health condition that isn't impacted by metabolic syndrome for a start, and carrying extra body fat and or being underweight and muscle lends itself to other, you know, degenerative, aging, you know, metabolic diseases.
15:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:37
SPEAKER_02: And so, regardless of what a patient is coming in to see you for, if their body composition is outside of ideal, it's an opportunity to really support somebody to feel better and improve their other parameters too.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh, yes.
15:54
SPEAKER_01: And even, you know, with everyone looking at, you know, peptides, GLP ones and all of those things, you know, it's that's an opportunity for us to support, because everyone's, you know, oh my gosh, they're losing too much muscle mass, they're losing all this muscle mass along with the body fat.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's true.
16:11
SPEAKER_01: But that's also, yes, it might be a little bit accelerated, but that's what happens in weight loss anyway.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: You can't spot lose unless you're really overweight and under muscled.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: If you just start a weights program at the same time you're doing weight loss, but you have to be very unfit for that.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: It is possible to kind of lose body fat and gain muscle, but most of us can't do that.
16:35
SPEAKER_01: And so, yes, there's all these, they're not, are they side effects of the medication or side effects of just weight loss?
16:43
SPEAKER_01: But that's where we have this beauty to step in and teach everybody all the things, the other things they need to be doing to try to maintain muscle mass because sarcopenia is a huge issue, not just perimenopause and beyond, but for everybody.
16:57
SPEAKER_01: You know, they're now saying longevity-wise, how much muscle you hold, huge impact on longevity, because actually, what they should be saying is how many mitochondria you have still functioning really optimally.
17:12
SPEAKER_02: Um, I think sarcopenia, I particularly see that most commonly in women, far less commonly in men.
17:20
SPEAKER_02: I think diet culture and restriction and and that old, you know, fat, like a low fat diet, wherefore typically low protein is a major issue.
17:31
SPEAKER_02: In fact, thinking of an old client who was was the perfect storm, an aerobics instructor, you know, in the 80s, 90s.
17:40
SPEAKER_02: So doing six hours of cardio a day and restricting, restricting.
17:44
SPEAKER_02: And she got down to one meal per day.
17:48
SPEAKER_02: And she was, I think, 35, 40 kilos overweight and fat, but like 12 kilos underweight and muscle and in perimenopause.
17:56
SPEAKER_02: And it was just such an unfortunate set of circumstances, but you can see how those habitual choices really led her down that path.
18:05
SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, it sounds like you're going to be deep diving into all of that in the in the webinar.
18:11
SPEAKER_02: I'd love to hear your thoughts on you you already touched on it.
18:15
SPEAKER_02: We, you know, we might see patients coming into our clinic for weight loss, or they clearly do need to lose some body fat as part of you know addressing their health.
18:24
SPEAKER_02: What happens if they're on a GLP one?
18:27
SPEAKER_02: Either they're about to start, they they're already on one, they've been on it for a while.
18:31
SPEAKER_02: How does that shift the advice that you might be giving?
18:34
SPEAKER_02: Is there extra things you have to consider?
18:36
SPEAKER_02: Are there things you would do differently?
18:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, I I thought about that because you and I were talking earlier.
18:43
SPEAKER_01: And you just really, I don't actually think what we have to tell them changes that much, but we just have to really reinforce certain important things, probably like chrononutrition, protein amounts.
19:00
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna have to, well, what does change?
19:02
SPEAKER_01: They have no appetite or very low appetite.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: So actually knowing they are gonna undereat calories, but that's part of the point of them being on a GLP one.
19:12
SPEAKER_01: So really focusing on what calorie what macros they need to be doing and when, as well as fiber and keeping that gut motility going.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but you know, the health of that becomes really important.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: And again, exercise.
19:27
SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't, I'm not an exercise physiologist, I'm not a personal trainer.
19:31
SPEAKER_01: I have plenty of people I refer them to, but you know, I won't do weight loss with a client unless they're exercising.
19:38
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you got to your second appointment to be moving, I will refer you to whatever you need.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: But if they're not exercising, I don't want to be doing weight loss with them or fat loss because A, it's going to be so much slower.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: B, I'm trying to upregulate their fat adaptation.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: I want the exercise for holding the muscle.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, we're trying to avoid.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I will go into the lecture a little bit on adaptive thermogenesis, like how the, you know, when we under-eat calories, because you it is calories in, calories out, plus about 50 other things, but we still do need to top calories.
20:16
SPEAKER_01: You know, the body knows what to do to save itself in times of famine, and it has this adaptive thermogenesis where it just turns everything down so it doesn't need as much, or even just looking at the idea once you're smaller, you have to eat less.
20:34
SPEAKER_01: And people forget that, right?
20:36
SPEAKER_01: They're like, oh, I'm 30 kilos less.
20:38
SPEAKER_01: That means I need less calories per day.
20:41
SPEAKER_01: So just that whole how all of that combines together.
20:45
SPEAKER_01: It's important for everybody, but especially when we're doing a G when people are doing a GLP agonist.
20:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:52
SPEAKER_02: So it almost sounds like the requirements are very similar, but there are some additional constraints like a loss of appetite, which might impact protein, you know, fiber consumption, for example, fiber.
21:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, all of those.
21:07
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, the new superfood.
21:09
SPEAKER_02: I'm so here.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: Totally the new superfood.
21:12
SPEAKER_01: It's so funny.
21:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm so glad to see the backside of kale.
21:15
SPEAKER_01: I can't even tell you.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't like kale, I have to admit that.
21:19
SPEAKER_01: That's that's um, other greens are good.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: Um fiber.
21:24
SPEAKER_02: Huge fiber, yeah.
21:25
SPEAKER_02: Thank goodness proteins shuffled over to make some room for for that.
21:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:32
SPEAKER_01: I need them holding hands, is what I do with fiber protein.
21:36
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I love it.
21:37
SPEAKER_02: Well, speaking of like those aspects, we've got those macro aspects where we're, you know, managing caloric intake.
21:46
SPEAKER_02: We're looking at the ratio of the macronutrients and how that serves their goals and how their body's responding to that in addition to an exercise program of some description.
21:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:57
SPEAKER_02: If we were to drill down more into my Micronutrients now.
22:01
SPEAKER_02: I'd love to hear about your favorite children as far as supplements go when it comes to, you know, changing body composition.
22:10
SPEAKER_02: And I think it's important we're clear what that means because weight loss, when we say weight loss, we really mean fat loss.
22:17
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
22:18
SPEAKER_02: However, with body composition changes, there's often a requirement there also to increase muscle.
22:24
SPEAKER_02: Or we might have someone who, you know, colloquially is referred to as skinny fat.
22:29
SPEAKER_02: They're actually not overweight, but they're horribly under muscled and therefore, you know, even insulin resistant to a degree, even though they are slim.
22:37
SPEAKER_02: But if we were to sort of just talk generally, what are some of the tools you often find yourself recommending as part of a protocol?
22:47
SPEAKER_01: So um, oh my gosh, where's the list?
22:51
SPEAKER_01: Yes, where's the things?
22:53
SPEAKER_01: I want to say creatine, because I know yeah, creatine, I feel like it's a superhero at the moment.
22:57
SPEAKER_01: Creatine is another superhero, although there are times where we shouldn't be doing it.
23:01
SPEAKER_01: But yes, creatine, like my top five, probably that I'm onto at the moment with clients would be creatine, protein powders, but also collagen.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: I use a lot of collagen with clients, even though it's not a whole protein powder.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna go into that.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: There's a time and a place for collagen, which I love.
23:21
SPEAKER_01: And it yeah, great satiating long story.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: We'll go into it.
23:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, magnesium, how could we not do magnesium?
23:29
SPEAKER_01: That's probably if I can only give one, it's probably magnesium.
23:33
SPEAKER_01: You know, the clients that are like, I'll take one supplement, and you're like, oh, I don't know what to do.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
23:39
SPEAKER_01: Um and um I am going into OEA.
23:43
SPEAKER_01: Don't make me pronounce the word, but um, for those not doing GLP ones, we have OEA, which I love, and um have been playing a lot more with clients over the last you know, six months or so.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: Um so I'm gonna go into explaining a little bit about how that works and how that gets used.
24:05
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, those are probably, I mean, there's some, you know, you got your B vitamin, I can hear everybody else going, but what about this?
24:11
SPEAKER_01: You know, B andocitol, and I mean, there's a million, you know, you got your berberines and you like, well, you know, your nervous system herbs.
24:19
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't even have time to go into that.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: But you know, if you're not chilling the person out or getting them to sleep, it's not gonna happen.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: So yes.
24:31
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, I don't even, yeah, I could list a thousand things, but those were both my biggies, or those are the biggies, OEA, magnesium, creatine, collagen.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: What did I forget?
24:44
SPEAKER_01: Those are kind of my big focus in this one, just because there's so so much impact on like with the insulin resistance and energy production, and yeah, yes.
24:55
SPEAKER_02: Uh, can we chat a little bit more about OEA for a moment, only because it is a fairly new ingredient in the Australian market.
25:03
SPEAKER_02: And I think practitioners are still getting their heads around that.
25:07
SPEAKER_02: PEA has been around for a while.
25:08
SPEAKER_02: This certainly sits in the same family, but has a different role to play entirely, and most specifically around satiety signaling and therefore appetite regulation.
25:22
SPEAKER_02: And it's being positioned.
25:26
SPEAKER_02: I shouldn't say it's being positioned.
25:28
SPEAKER_02: Let's say the word on the street is how it's being useful.
25:32
SPEAKER_02: How it's being used is to reduce food noise, which of course is what GLP1s are, you know, touted for.
25:40
SPEAKER_02: And I'd love to hear your reflections on what it's doing and what you're seeing, how it's actually working in clients, like what kind of feedback you've been getting.
25:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:51
SPEAKER_01: So um, I'm gonna leave how it's doing it for the lecture because to just come out with it.
25:57
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna get it wrong.
25:58
SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna, I'm gonna waste from my slides on that.
26:02
SPEAKER_01: Right.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: As for clients, because I think, yeah, we'll go into that, not too deep.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: There's lots of information, yeah.
26:09
SPEAKER_01: But um look, food noise, I love the term food noise.
26:13
SPEAKER_01: I just think, and I know it's been around for a while, but it's starting to really be there.
26:19
SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, food noise versus satiety, and and when there is good satiety, there is no food noise or there's less food noise.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: And I'm just finding it amazing.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: People, you know, some people feel a bigger impact than others.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: I play around with usually I'll give it twice a day, but we'll play around trying to give it before meals.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: But if they forget, they'll do it after.
26:43
SPEAKER_01: I'm tending to position it before the meals where they have their bigger issues, especially.
26:49
SPEAKER_01: Like for the majority of my clients and for myself, I know my food noise is much worse in the evening, right?
26:56
SPEAKER_01: I'm I can forget to eat during the day.
26:59
SPEAKER_01: I do eat, but um I love food too much to not eat.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I know when I start hitting lunch and then to dinner, especially, my food noise is hideous.
27:11
SPEAKER_01: So, with a lot of clients, we have that discussion.
27:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, one of my things in weight loss is to change one meal at a time with clients, right?
27:20
SPEAKER_01: If if you have to overhaul the whole diet, besides, you know, protein amounts, all this stuff.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, let's start with breakfast.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: Let's do just an amazing breakfast that's like on point.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: We'll go into the lecture for 80 reasons why that's the big meal to really go after first.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: But then, you know, lunch for some people, depending on where they are, it can be really hard to access a good lunch, or there's too many options if they're, you know, out of the house.
27:46
SPEAKER_01: So I will often use it right before lunch, or I especially use it before dinner just to kind of curb that food noise that occurs, especially after dinner.
27:57
SPEAKER_01: And so much of that is more emotional than physiology for clients.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: And so really addressing it and having that, yeah.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: I've just found it really just, you know, does it completely get rid of it?
28:09
SPEAKER_01: No, but just that quieting is fantastic.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: And and people that don't want to do GLP ones, which is a lot of people, they feel it's not a perfect replacement by any means, but GLP ones are also not perfect.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: It's just such a great adjunct to feel supported in that area.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: I've definitely had, you know, some people are like, it was completely a game change, and other people are like, I can feel it, but not, you know.
28:37
SPEAKER_01: Yes, depends on all their other drivers, right?
28:40
SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
28:41
SPEAKER_02: I think again, that comes down to the role of personalizing your protocols, which I know you're going to go into for each of those presentations.
28:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:50
SPEAKER_02: Another thing that you're covering is the often overlooked drivers of fat loss or fat gain.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: And you mentioned chrononutrition, you've touched on sleep, stress cortisol patterns, appetite hormones.
29:04
SPEAKER_02: But something else that you are going to be speaking about, and I'd love to just hear a little bit more about it from you today, is non-exercise activity thermogenesis.
29:16
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
29:16
SPEAKER_02: What is that?
29:17
SPEAKER_01: How are we utilizing that for our patients?
29:20
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
29:21
SPEAKER_01: So we will go into exercise in general.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: Again, I can't be too descriptive on that, but you know, we all know we need to be doing strength training, but we also need to be doing aerobic exercise or zone two, which we call and I actually have some zone information for everyone because everyone's talking zones, and they're like, I don't know what zone two is.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what's, you know, any exercise is awesome exercise, in my opinion.
29:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so again, that's our most controlled part of our metabolism.
29:54
SPEAKER_01: It's what we can have the biggest effect on, is how much we move or not.
29:58
SPEAKER_01: Whereas knee it or any non-exercise.
30:03
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, any activity, neat activity, neurogenesis.
30:06
SPEAKER_01: We got it, we got it.
30:09
SPEAKER_01: However, you're supposed to say, I'm sure in different countries we can say it differently.
30:12
SPEAKER_01: Yes, that is your incidental movement, literally.
30:16
SPEAKER_01: It's like the scientific word for that.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: So, how much you shake, you know, are you a, you know, a leg shaker?
30:23
SPEAKER_01: Are you a fidgeter?
30:25
SPEAKER_01: You know, those people that are constantly moving actually have a much higher NEAT than the people that don't.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: But also like having a stand-up desk going for a 15-minute walk after you eat, which is incredible for your metabolism and glycemic control.
30:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, but all those incidental movements.
30:47
SPEAKER_01: But the problem is, as we calorie restrict, which we have to do in weight loss or fat loss, your body naturally tells you not to move as much.
30:59
SPEAKER_01: Like there's actual biochemistry saying slow it down, sit on the couch and literally don't shake.
31:06
SPEAKER_01: Like it's amazing how the body tries to make you adapt.
31:10
SPEAKER_01: So also just having, you know, NEAT is about being aware of the fact that are you or are you not moving?
31:18
SPEAKER_01: I'm sitting at a stand-up desk right now.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, yes, I won't do a podcast standing because I am a fidgeter and I already move enough.
31:25
SPEAKER_01: I know that.
31:26
SPEAKER_01: But um having my stand-up desk versus using it are two different things, right?
31:31
SPEAKER_01: So it's about remembering all that stuff we need to be doing as well.
31:34
SPEAKER_01: So we'll we'll look into that.
31:37
SPEAKER_02: Yes, okay.
31:38
SPEAKER_02: This I'm already excited for this webinar.
31:41
SPEAKER_02: I'm absolutely going to be on there live.
31:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:44
SPEAKER_02: I'm also really excited to listen to what you have to say about some of the other mistakes I think practitioners can make overlooking, I guess, the warning signs or the patterns around under eating, overtraining, poor recovery.
31:59
SPEAKER_02: Can you speak to that a little bit today?
32:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:03
SPEAKER_01: So I think, and this is Kira's opinion more than science, but um I, you know, as a sports nutritionist, and people joining have maybe been in other metabolic health.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: I did female metabolic health last year for Designs for Health.
32:21
SPEAKER_01: Learning to eat around exercise has massive impact on your glycemic control and what you can and what you should or shouldn't eat around training gives you so much more options.
32:37
SPEAKER_01: And so we're really going to talk about how to eat around training and why that is important for fat loss versus you know doing the wrong, you know, you do all this exercise and then not fueling properly around exercise actually can cripple you a little bit metabolically.
32:55
SPEAKER_01: Like not massive, that's probably a big statement, but it can cause problem, it puts the brakes on things that that you've shouldn't be doing.
33:03
SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna talk about that.
33:05
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna talk about, I mean, under eating for the volume of training, we'll see how far I can get into that.
33:11
SPEAKER_01: I did talk about that a lot last year for Designs for Health, but we will touch on it about eating at the right time for your body feeling safe to be like, oh yeah, it's okay to let go of this body fat.
33:22
SPEAKER_01: So we do go into that.
33:24
SPEAKER_02: Fantastic.
33:25
SPEAKER_01: Down in six hours.
33:27
SPEAKER_02: Yes, we do.
33:28
SPEAKER_02: We need like a part two and a part three.
33:30
SPEAKER_01: Download your brain.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: I know.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: And we were talking before this started, and I'm I'm playing, you know, the last minute playing with my slides, and I'm like, oh my God, like what do I gotta say versus not say?
33:42
SPEAKER_01: But anyway, we'll get there.
33:43
SPEAKER_02: Yes, we will get there, absolutely.
33:46
SPEAKER_02: Well, I think, you know, one of the other aspects I find practitioners really are challenged by when it comes to fat loss clients is when their patients arrive at a point where they have been adhering to everything but they plateau.
34:05
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
34:05
SPEAKER_02: Can you share with us like some of the big reasons why a patient could be doing everything that you've said and on paper it should be working, but it doesn't, or it stops working?
34:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: So that um, you know, the dreaded plateau, you know, uh the way I try to explain it to my clients too is it's okay to plateau.
34:24
SPEAKER_01: It's your body settling and sorting out its kind of new you, and then we can pause for a moment and then go at it again.
34:33
SPEAKER_01: So I do try to premise plateaus as not being a bad thing.
34:37
SPEAKER_01: Your body's trying to kind of, yeah, as I said, reorient itself.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: Why we hit plateaus, your body gets used to the exercise you're doing.
34:46
SPEAKER_01: We actually need to change up exercise, not be your own, you know, you don't jog on Mondays and wait on Tuesday.
34:52
SPEAKER_01: Like you don't do the same thing forever.
34:53
SPEAKER_01: You have to change it up.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, as I talked about before, when your body is smaller, you need to readjust your calorie intake.
35:02
SPEAKER_01: So sometimes you've got to redo calculations for people.
35:05
SPEAKER_01: And that's exciting but depressing when we're like, you need 200 calories less a day for the size you are, but that's how it is.
35:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, why else do they hit plateaus?
35:14
SPEAKER_01: Adaptive thermogenesis.
35:15
SPEAKER_01: So, do we need to take a break from the diet?
35:18
SPEAKER_01: I'm a huge fan of cyclical dieting.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: I'm a huge fan of um not doing calorie restriction every day, but playing with it, having more calories some days, less calories other days.
35:31
SPEAKER_01: And so I will often bring in other things.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, when people have been doing it for a while, it becomes habit, but then some other habits will slide in.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: So we double check about are you actually stopping eating a couple hours before you go to sleep, or what's happening with the stress and the circadian rhythms?
35:51
SPEAKER_01: And oh my gosh, there's so many.
35:53
SPEAKER_01: It's like going back to the start, but checking off what they they learned about, but they haven't done is one of those things that I do.
36:00
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, basically, usually a plateau is adaptive thermogenesis, or you know, you're gonna need to look at the hormones again.
36:10
SPEAKER_01: Is their thyroid still happy?
36:12
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, there's so many things.
36:14
SPEAKER_02: So many things.
36:15
SPEAKER_02: So by the sounds of it, come to the webinar to learn about all of the things.
36:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and also is the client really telling you what they're doing, let's be honest.
36:23
SPEAKER_01: True.
36:24
SPEAKER_01: Like, and I love my clients, but what they say they're doing versus what they're doing, I'm like, is it time for a food diary again?
36:30
SPEAKER_01: Are you gonna send me photos of everything you're eating?
36:33
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you always have to be careful too.
36:35
SPEAKER_01: If people have that borderline or they have previous eating disorders, it's a totally different ball game of how I kind of approach.
36:43
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's not a different, just how we word things.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: You have to, you know, be more cautious what I ask them to do.
36:49
SPEAKER_01: But um yeah, you just gotta kind of revisit your original goals and decide what what's next.
36:55
SPEAKER_01: Because you don't do everything at once, right?
36:58
SPEAKER_01: Like you can't tell them to do 25 things.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: So you're layering, hopefully, not having too big of a plateau.
37:05
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
37:05
SPEAKER_02: And also it's a journey where you're re-reestablishing trust with, you know, between someone and their body, and you're almost taking them through a user manual to support them to not only get to the goal that they wish to arrive at, but be able to maintain it.
37:22
SPEAKER_02: And you're essentially setting up habits that were perhaps missing or shifting habits that were not helpful to their longevity and their metabolic health.
37:33
SPEAKER_02: And that takes time, unfortunately, and repetition.
37:36
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's not that we're doing a diet and then you get to go back to what you were doing before.
37:43
SPEAKER_01: The way I premise it is we might be stricter now, but these are like permanent changes.
37:48
SPEAKER_01: These are what you should always be doing to an extent.
37:51
SPEAKER_01: You know, what does maintenance look like versus the actual action?
37:56
SPEAKER_01: As well as, you know, sometimes when people hit plateaus or when they're done with the weight loss and they're at where they want to be, then you have to think about, you know, theoretically, is there a set point theory where the body is then like, oh, I want to get back to where I was, and it starts fighting with lepton greelin' and insight.
38:13
SPEAKER_01: Like you, you have to defend your weight loss more vigorously than when you were trying to lose the weight.
38:22
SPEAKER_01: That unfortunately is, you know, we think we're like, oh, I'm at my goal, and then it goes, it's a mess.
38:28
SPEAKER_01: So it's actually harder once you hit that goal weight.
38:33
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
38:34
SPEAKER_02: Can I have but one last question for you?
38:37
SPEAKER_02: Um, I I mean, I have many questions, but I will save them to the webinar.
38:41
SPEAKER_02: But I would love to know how you navigate and support your patients for mindset, because I find, particularly in this day and age with instant gratification so easy to come by elsewhere, shifting people's understanding to you are learning skills for life, you are changing your lifestyle, you are learning to nourish yourself consistently in a way that actually serves your goals, which does not mean you're eating perfectly 24-7 and can't, you know, have anything fun ever again until you die.
39:16
SPEAKER_02: But how how do you find it works best to shift people from, oh, I just need to lose 20 kilos and I want the fastest way possible to you're actually learning how to love your body for life.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:29
SPEAKER_01: It's such a good question.
39:31
SPEAKER_01: I think it really depends on each person and the conversations you have all the time during.
39:37
SPEAKER_01: And I think it reflects back to what I said before.
39:40
SPEAKER_01: You are not saying this is fast weight loss, and then and then you can do whatever.
39:46
SPEAKER_01: It's I'm like, this is what you should always be doing.
39:49
SPEAKER_01: So I feel like I do that the whole time.
39:52
SPEAKER_01: Um mindset.
39:55
SPEAKER_01: What else do I do?
39:56
SPEAKER_01: I educate, I guess my mindset kind of focus.
40:00
SPEAKER_01: If I think they need a psychologist or an eating, you know, someone who's really good with, you know, issues around food and eating.
40:06
SPEAKER_01: I I guess I really try to do it more.
40:10
SPEAKER_01: Is this a permanent change about how you should?
40:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:14
SPEAKER_01: That's really interesting.
40:15
SPEAKER_01: I think it's the dialogue that happens the whole time and new things come up all the time.
40:21
SPEAKER_01: Do I make my clients see me all the time?
40:22
SPEAKER_01: No, most weight loss clients I only see every month.
40:25
SPEAKER_01: If we find that's too far and they go off track, I'll pull them in closer, you know, two weeks or three weeks.
40:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, oh we, you know, we just talk about food noise.
40:37
SPEAKER_01: And I guess really I'm a big fan of playing at where are you having your issues, whether it's food noise, whether it's evening, other people it's going out to drink with friends, it's peer pressure.
40:51
SPEAKER_01: I guess I try to figure out what their triggers are.
40:54
SPEAKER_01: We learn about them together, and then we do coaching around how they can advocate for themselves in social situations, or you know, we I think I do a lot of that conversation really about what is it you and your food noise versus oh, I can't do this because it's not social, or you know, it's like yes, that makes perfect sense.
41:18
SPEAKER_01: I do a lot of conversation like that, but I'm not a psychologist and I definitely do send people on if they need it.
41:25
SPEAKER_01: I think even understanding the idea of food noise is so empowering because so many people have beaten themselves up over willpower and why am I not perfect at this and why can't I do this?
41:41
SPEAKER_01: So we look at food noise, we look at dopamine and serotonin levels, we look at the drivers of what's going on for them and why, and realizing they're not broken.
41:52
SPEAKER_01: It's part of their biochem that is causing some of the issues.
41:56
SPEAKER_02: I think that's empowering in itself, having people understand their physiology and what's really happening, and then naming those things like food noise, and then helping them bring awareness to their triggers as to what you know will pull them away from the path that they want to actually walk.
42:14
SPEAKER_02: And I think the overarching theme that I picked up from there is is it is a relationship of coaching and support and encouragement and just repetition around what you're doing and why.
42:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:28
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I can see it's again, it's not a quick fix, is it?
42:31
SPEAKER_01: It is a No, and their life situation.
42:34
SPEAKER_01: Are they taking care of others?
42:35
SPEAKER_01: Are they cooking for others?
42:37
SPEAKER_01: Are they like, but what's the budget?
42:40
SPEAKER_01: It there's so many things.
42:42
SPEAKER_01: I was talking to a client the other day, and I'm like, we need you need to, we they need to be doing this.
42:48
SPEAKER_01: And they're like, Yes, but it's just I don't have enough time in the day.
42:52
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, you literally, I actually just called her on it.
42:55
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you literally have just said you don't have enough time in the day for yourself, and I'm not okay with that, right?
43:01
SPEAKER_01: I'm not okay that that's like that's the whole point, right?
43:06
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, you're deprioritizing yourself over others, and and hence the result that you have today.
43:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
43:14
SPEAKER_02: It can just boil down to that.
43:15
SPEAKER_02: It is tricky, and and this is definitely one of those areas where a psychologist might be helpful to look at where someone isn't, you know, holding boundaries, prioritizing themselves, over functioning.
43:26
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, it is complex.
43:27
SPEAKER_02: And I suppose to wrap up the conversation, because of all of those elements, I can see why some practitioners are like, oh, I don't want to do weight loss.
43:36
SPEAKER_02: It's you know, there's so many facets to it.
43:39
SPEAKER_02: But actually, it can be incredibly rewarding.
43:41
SPEAKER_02: It just requires, you know, you know, a the right mindset um to really support patients.
43:48
SPEAKER_02: So look, if for practitioners who are listening to this, if you have been avoiding looking at weight loss, all of you um, you know, this is your sign to come along to the webinar with Cura and fall in love with it.
44:04
SPEAKER_02: And for practitioners who are already working in this space, as you said, the last decade, the the research that's come out at the most exponential rate has allowed us to refine and really hone in on things in a way we did not have access to before.
44:21
SPEAKER_02: So even if you do love this and you're working in this space, this is an excellent opportunity to come and learn and really go deeper and broader and up-level yourself too.
44:33
SPEAKER_02: So, yes, May 26th, if you're listening to this uh beforehand, otherwise, the replay is available on the website.
44:40
SPEAKER_02: Well, Kira, thank you so much for your time today.
44:43
SPEAKER_02: That was a great conversation.
44:45
SPEAKER_01: It was good, yeah, always good to see you.
44:47
SPEAKER_01: And I'm excited for this one.
44:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm really excited.
44:49
SPEAKER_01: Now I'm gonna go flip my slides around a bit more.
44:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
44:53
SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to see we have a focus here.
44:55
SPEAKER_01: Anyway.
44:56
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, I love that.
44:57
SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm really looking forward to it, Kira.
44:59
SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be fantastic.
45:00
SPEAKER_02: And I really think there were so many takeaways from this conversation around metabolic health.
45:05
SPEAKER_02: For anyone who wants to connect with Kira, she you can find her on Instagram under Uber Health.
45:11
SPEAKER_02: And to our beautiful audience, thank you for joining us today.
45:16
SPEAKER_02: And remember, you can find all of the show notes and our other podcasts on the Australian Designs for Health website.
45:23
SPEAKER_02: I'm Amy Skilton, and this is Wellness by Designs.