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The Enneagram Three's Sacred Ease | Performance, Identity & Trusting God with Deanna · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast, the Enneagram for Real Life.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Here is where you'll find conversations where faith meets story and strategy for lasting transformation.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Amy Wicks, here to help you find wisdom and wholehearted rhythms for moments that matter most.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you're learning your type or deepening your spiritual formation, these conversations will remind you that the Enneagram shines a light, but Christ is the transformation.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Deanna, here we are again.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Enneagram 3.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: We only have two more months after this.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: I can't believe that we've done it.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Look at us.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's pretty great.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's gone quickly, actually, when you think about it.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's been a blast.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: I have enjoyed, and I just want to say for our friend listening, if you haven't let us know how much you enjoyed us taking a month for a whole type, let us know.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm hearing a lot of people appreciating that.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is going to be in the vault, if you will, for a long time.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people are going to come back and listen to these and just know, hey, I can look at these four all at once and I can hear about my wing.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: I can hear about my type.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: I can hear about a family member.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: But the three you and I have talked about behind the scenes feels there's a lot of responsibility, some reverence to talk about the three because there's so much that is, I think, misunderstood about the three.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: There's also a lot of variance to a three.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: So we're coming in going, Lord, help us really celebrate and honor this type well.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think too.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I like how you said that reverence, because I I first of all, I don't know a lot of threes and I ignore my three wing a lot.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: But then as I was going through all of this, I thought, oh no, that's not true.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: I actually do pull on this wing quite a bit more.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so I'm excited to see how this plays out.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think there's been a subtle hint of in as you've done work, I've seen the three-wing mended, and I've therefore seen excellence manifested in a way that resembles the work of a three and some of the traits of the three.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel privileged to get to sit on from a coaching, but also just hearing, I don't know what your answers are going to be.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really looking forward to that.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I I do have a three in my house.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I had some fun thinking about this conversation because he's it's my son.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: He's the one at home.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Everything in his life is very amplified and highlighted.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: His age, he's the only kid left right now.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: And we're in the thick of it with him on a lot of levels.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I might have some stories, permission shared to share about him.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: He also doesn't mind me sharing stories.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's that.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I yeah, I'd like to start at help us understand what is happening in the threes' inner world.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: What makes a three a three?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Also, I think this is funny because who I pulled on is also a young man that I do know as a three.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so a lot of it resonates.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I know I've always just loved him.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's just been a natural place to, he's just a very lovable.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh lots of things about that.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I think interestingly, the three's core desire is to feel genuinely valuable.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not for what they've done, which but for who they are, which kind of flies in the face of often being known as the achiever.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then, but they're very competent at getting things done.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: I know a three that we both know who she is like, what you did what in that amount of time, and your brain wrapped around that and made it happen.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's really quite fantastic.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's true.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: I have had a couple of gals who will be on the podcast this month who just went through the wholehearted certification.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: So they're officially wholehearted coaches, on top of some of other certification training they've done, but it has just been uh constantly going wowser, as you would say.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Wowser.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Every meeting they'd come in with what they have done and how they've moved forward and the doors that they've been knocking on, they weren't waiting, they were knocking on them.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really impressive.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Though I think that's sometimes hard, right?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because there is a desire to show their competence, they're part of that competence triad.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: So give us a little peek behind what it is that they project based versus what they are maybe feeling.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think when the achievement stops, it can feel really strangely quiet.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's a tricky place for them to navigate.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it might not feel authentic to them, or in a place where they project all of this achievement and and goodness and pouring things out, but inside there might be still a sense of worthlessness, like they're not accomplishing enough, they're not doing enough things.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that probably yeah, what drives them.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think that is more, it looks like ambition, but maybe feels like survival.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they've learned to do.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think I almost picture constantly climbing out of a sense of failure, especially if things aren't panning out how they set a goal on or based on how much effort they put out.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I I just have often seen threes kind of pull their, it's like they're trying to get above, almost as if they're swimming or drowning in a sea of failure all the time, which is a lot of the narrative for three, even though some of us would never call it failure, deem it that, or understand how much of that feeling is there, I kind of see the three trying to catch their breath and find their way uh over above it.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that's, I think what like you hinted out when it gets quiet or when the stop is there, that can feel really overwhelming, which leads us to that fear of feeling worthless.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us a little bit more about the fear, desire, longing, and all of that in there.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think with striving, it can really produce an energy for them.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: When I was asking my source, he's sad actually that he felt even in the exhaustion, there's an energy for him because he's been accomplishing.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's usually this deep knowing that ultimately this won't bring satisfaction, though, on the deepest level.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a sense of worthlessness, I think, when they're unable to complete what they've accomplished, and that can be from any range of work to working out, to parenting, to whatever that ends up looking like.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I think a feeling of satisfaction can come close, though, when they're being rewarded, say in a work setting or accomplishing awards in other areas of their life.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: It can have this little almost a sliver of actually feeling that accomplishment.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever experienced that leaning at all?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: I know we've talked about the five-wing is really strong.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: You can relate to that, tap into that easily, identify, resonate.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: The three-wing, though, is there.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: And as we've talked about in the whole hearted process, the desire is to be using both and flying further and faster, working both together, and understanding that each of our wings add a needed flavor depending on the environment.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we might in one environment use more of a five-wing or a three-wing if you're in Egram 4.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm curious for you, any personal stories that rose to the surface as you were thinking about that and and as you have engaged with it more?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think probably I had maybe a bias towards three for some reason.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Perhaps it was a personality thing with a particular person.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: But and so maybe ignored it a little bit.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I think I think probably I had a response even as a child to get attention from being performative.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: For being, I was the oldest of four kids and um would feel validated in that.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: I was, you know, I didn't have a hard time in school.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: So all of those kinds of things were validating for me and trying to avoid any type of failure, which led me down a path really of ending up people pleasing a lot, always trying to cover up feeling like I maybe wasn't enough or worthy because I was failing in these areas that I set out to that maybe I had no business even setting out to do, right?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting, yeah.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if um I think value that came without achievement, though.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think even now, as an old lady, you are not an old lady, stop, older lady.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think I have this thing because I said I'm almost 60, so I just think, where are these things that aren't serving me any longer?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let's get to the bottom of them, and that's enough now.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so that where there's areas that come without achievement, and people are actually just seeing my character and speaking to that instead, it can it could feel it at first felt really confusing.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: When I could get to the place where I'm just accepting that because I'm like, okay, the Lord is seeing me.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: I can sense that He's seeing me through these people, and um, so it can help me tap into that sense of being loved and knowing, especially when it comes from a trusted source where that person has been vetted in my life or whatever.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's it interrupts the patterns of me not being able to receive that.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious to hear you distinguish between the longing desire element and it when it comes to goals, accomplishments, and success and failure, because that feels all tangled up and knotted in some ways, and almost as if a three doesn't know how to naturally delineate and separate out how all of those mean, it feels like it's all big ball of hardship and heartache.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe as I just even say those words, how have you seen a three approach those uniquely and yet the same way?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is almost like this big.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: I just almost had a picture in my head, Amy, of a ball of string.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: This is exciting.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was thank you, Jesus.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: A thought.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh, that's kind of like a ball of string that you just pull on one and see if you can unravel it, see if that is the piece.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: But really, um, setting goals is a difficult thing for me to do.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that is tied up in that.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: And because I'm not sure.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have some thoughts about that?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like where where it gets tied up.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking about the woman who has done some work, so has some language around these things, understands some of the inner, the inner directive, maybe not even knowing what direction to go, but understanding these terms, these phrases almost feel like a ping in themselves because there is such a drive and desire for accomplishment.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: So getting things done.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: But getting things done alone isn't satisfying because they want the getting things done to accomplish something.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: And the idea of accomplishing something is very defined, or there's a very narrow definition of what that success is, because the outcome needs to be successful.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: And if it's not successful, the pendulum swings to it must be a failure.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: And yet their drive is to accomplish and to get things done and efficiently.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's almost like they keep chasing something that's so elusive because they it all folds into each other.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: And unless something happens to have that big moment that they've been longing for, they may not even get it.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: And even then, my guess, and at least what I've witnessed, is that moment isn't satisfying in itself.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it just is a there's just a goal line that's been moved down the field.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like there it's always just 10 or 20 yards away, out of reach, out of grasp.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't know.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: I guess I think through that, and I I have so much compassion because even as they talk about it, that feels really exhausting.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think too in that um there's like this loss of their self because it is, it feels unachievable when all that wants to be happening is achievement.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, so there's that, you know, juxtaposition of going, huh, okay, I'm almost there.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: I can see it, I can feel it, I can pull on that part and unravel it.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then, ah, that wasn't quite.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it, and I think really, you know, as we think about our relationship with the Lord, that that is really at the crux of all types of people, is like we really think we're chasing after something that's gonna satisfy us, and unless it's him, it isn't.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that applies here too.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: I am excited to get to some of that hopeful practical element that we're gonna share even in just a few minutes here, because just as I said, even feeling that exhaustion for the three, and I I see it in my son right now.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'm gonna end up we're right, we're recording this the week before.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think tomorrow I'm gonna be writing a substack kind of themed on this.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: So a little bit early for the three, but it's just it's something that I I sense the Lord's not letting me let go.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: But part of the illustration is watching my son, son's football team struggle.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously he's 16, he's the boy, emotional awareness.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: He's fairly emotional, emotionally aware, all things considered, but obviously there's just an age issue here.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: But he loves football and he's really good.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: And a five, I would say five talent football player where he can he can roll in three to five different positions on the team, both offense and defense, play well.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: His name is constantly being called over the loudspeaker for making the play, the tackle, whatever.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: But our team is 0-3 and we've played the easiest teams on the roster.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now, there's more to that story for now.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think what I'm trying to share to him and invite him to consider is that his, even though the whole team isn't experiencing the win and the success that he would define, that he himself is experiencing the wins and is moving forward and is accomplishing great things in his role himself.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: And even as a team player, it's not that he's trying to steal the show, he's just contributing because he really wants it for the team.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that's that's an interesting element for a three to be able to separate out and look at the you're moving forward, even though the outcome hasn't yet happened how you wanted, and you maybe don't have the big W that you're going for.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: But the fact that you're doing these things and you're improving along the way, whether it's at your craft or your skill or with relationships, whatever it is, that those are still wins.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: So um I know there's a lot there.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be curious though to just touch on this because I do see this both both sides of this coin, but the idea that a three is sometimes a known as a chameleon or a little bit of a shape shifter, not merging like a three, not in that similar way where they're losing themselves, but almost in order to get environmental rewards or adjusting to fit and find belonging.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's true.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: I would agree with those things.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think too, from the young man I spoke to, he said when he started to learn to detach himself from what how was it that he said just people's perception of him?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Then he was able to like I think that for your son as well.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: If he can detach people's perception, just because the team is losing doesn't mean that everyone is right at that time, right?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it can feel like yeah, the shape shifting, I think, like I said before, starts when you're young and you're getting rewarded for all of the attention of accomplishing things and searching for that.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I think though that that is a big key is just detaching and recognizing their own worth in their own, like you said, like your son, in the roles that he's playing.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't necessarily depend on all the other I mean it does as a team, but you know what I mean.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, in fact, I keep reminding him that several players from their team currently and previously, and that their records really no different, have still been recruited for from really great schools, not your top 10 or anything like that.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: But there's still, if you are showing up with excellence as an individual, um, there's still, it doesn't mean your dreams die with the team.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a kind of an interesting thing to help him sort through.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious, I want to, I want to double tap a little bit more on the shape shifting, the chameleon-esque nature of the three, because I feel like this, and it'll probably come out in some of the conversations I'm gonna have this month, but I think this is why sometimes it's hard for a three to discover they're a three.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: I have seen people arrive at it quickly, but I have had podcast episodes, numerous of them over the years, about why it's so hard to be a three.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Three, you know, people who just three was not the one that they were necessarily looking at, or they had such a hard time wrapping their mind around it.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just curious, based on your experience, whether with this friend, but I know you've worked with clients who are three and engaging with threes, why do you think it's it's difficult?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think actually it ties in with their weakness, or what is the other word that people use for weakness?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: I was thinking about that.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: I can't pull it up right now.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, their vice.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, and so I think deceit is actually what their weakness is.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: So when it's tied into that, I think even the connotation of deceit bring brings negativity, right?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: But really it more expresses in the ability for them to be able to flex or pivot into that chameleon-esque kind of quality to get their connection and to have recognition.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it might be tied up in that because it's seen as a place of weakness.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: But really, I think truly, what I have seen that's kept out of the passion or weakness or whatever, having others reflect things back to me helps me to see and embrace those parts of me.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: That the deceit doesn't show up in a type three as lying, which we probably would say that, but they in fact have an innate ability to pick that out of other people.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: I can't believe they can sniff that out if someone's being untrustworthy or lying.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: So the deceit doesn't show up like that for them, but maybe just in the way that they might be.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Lying to themselves in not searching for or what they're trying to make the connection with, right?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Or recognizing that they are flexing here or they're pivoting and maybe they don't have to.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe even deceiving themselves around failures, that reframing that kicks in to not feel it themselves because of the feeling repression, not wanting others to see it because they don't want the shame from other people's vantage point or their assumptions of their life or accomplishment of goals or lack thereof.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it is, I think, I think that's been a really interesting thing because there's been two terminologies about that shadow side, both the word deceit and vanity have been used over the years and by different coaches, and there's been different pushback on it.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think I can see how they interplay with one another, because depending on the subtype as well, there's sometimes the deceit about the vanity of a three because you don't want to appear that there's vanity here or that you even want significance because no, I don't want the limelight.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: And but part of not wanting the limelight is the fear of what happens because the spotlight's on you, and therefore are people going to judge you success or failure.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's a unique element that this is where the Enneagram at first blush looks so simple and easy in nine types, but it gets really nuanced and somewhat complicated because these these turns of phrase, these the words, the language around it, the reflection that people are invited to in this, I think a three in particular has a more challenging time because there's even an element like a nine who has the perspective of all nine types.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think a three has uniquely shown up in the room as they think they're supposed to.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: Not quite like a four, but in order to achieve a level of success and what the room is demanding or desiring from them.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: So um it's not cut and dry.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I I can think of all the examples and all the stories I've had over the years, and it doesn't really formalize well or fit in a nice, nice, tidy sentence.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think too um, being in the heart triad, in the middle of the heart triad, right?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: When they're going either to a nine or a six, the shame is the underlying.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: So the deceit would show up in that is they're trying to avoid the shame and where that is just this low hum, this shame piece.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that probably interacts with that as well.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: On to a few of the more positive elements of the conversation where I like to live.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I want to talk about the the Enneagram three and the relationship with God or even some of the practices that help her move from her starting point and get her to the place that she's wanting to go.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think probably um when a type three can get into a place of receiving from God rather than striving for his love, that it would feel more like blessing and freedom in their spirit and the ability to interact with his love.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think, and then recognizing it doesn't have to be in their own strength.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think here is where the vanity might show up that a relationship with God reveals that success in the world is vanity.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting, yeah.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then so the relationship with him helps to share a view of eternity and not be focused so much on the temporary things with the ability to detach from the outcomes or what people are thinking, like I said before, uh, more easily.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think actually there was a scripture and my source, I'm gonna keep calling him that because that's so Yeah, that's a good that's great.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: So he chose Romans 8 38, was what really spoke to him.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: But as I was reading through the chapter and I was thinking about how call how Paul's continuing to teach about the life and the spirit here, and and that this is the conclusion for how to respond and how much God is for us.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: I really just felt like I need to read a little bit of that, if that's all right.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Please, always okay.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I'm just gonna start at all of this is so rich.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Romans eight is I mean, Romans, yeah.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right, but I'm gonna go past where it says, you know, how we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who've been called according to his purpose, and then further down on in verse 31 says, What then shall we say in response to these things?
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: If God is for us, who can be against us?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: He who did not spare his own son, but gave him up for us all, how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen?
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: It is God who justifies, who then is the one who condemns no one.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Christ Jesus, who died more than that, who was raised to life, is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Who shall separate us from the love of Christ shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: As it is written, For your sake we face death all day long.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: We are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then, no, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: That was perfect.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: I what the phrase that kept coming to my mind, well, actually had two things.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: One of it was one of them was benevolent detachment.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a phrase I've said often or used often in different circumstances.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: This is a John Eldridge phrase I've learned from him.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I think of the three in particular wrestling through that benevolent detachment when it comes to outcome.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe even more than their kids or relationships, but the outcome related to the effort that they have put in and the invitation in the releasing of it, not acquiescence in the sense of being irresponsible or not trying anymore or going to the sloth nine, but uh, I'm gonna keep showing up for this thing that is on my heart and the dream in my body, and I'm gonna still go for it and the trade, as you have taught us, the anticipation or expectancy instead of expectations.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a beautiful word of encouragement that it's possible as a three to land in a grounded space of peace and ease that I know they long for because I see it, I see it day in and day out in my kiddo, but also with those that I've coached and continue to work with.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because the weariness that has set in, it's that heavy yoke and a burden of unease.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's good when they can move to their high side of nine and pull on all the peace, you know, that's needed in their spirit and just um really keep loosely in their hands the outcomes of just holding it loosely and but still striving for the excellence that they desire, still working towards what they could accomplish and just leaving it in God's hands to bring the outcome, right?
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: As we wrap up here, I would love to hear what the recommendation is for spiritual practice or a daily habit.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think right reading Romans 8 could be a great one, a place to begin for sure.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: But maybe your source had some recommendations too.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think we got that far, actually.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this just all comes from you get all the credit then.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think probably that yeah, just re just the reminder that you're already enough, that there's nothing that God's love will change.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: I do think probably meditating on this scripture would be great.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: That was Romans 8, 31 to 39.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: I read.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: And just knowing that he won't leave you, that being enough on their own won't really ever truly satisfy.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: But you could probably do something just even simple during the day, I think.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, just pick one simple thing to do where you will have a sense of accomplishment and finish that, slowing it down, taking breathers in between when you're just furiously.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you can interrupt those brain patterns quickly, but but just being just settled, just more, just asking God to give you a settled spirit, even in the achievement, even in seeking after the things that you're looking for.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think that would be a big part of it.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think I want to encourage the woman who's listening who finds herself raising her hand to the three inner longings and directives, but a word about the matric, because so often you have created this measurement in your mind about something related to even maybe an everyday thing, that you go to bed and you put your head on your pillow, and all that you can meditate on is how you fell short of that.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that the Lord is not looking at your to-do list or your accomplishments and holding you to this line that you have in your mind.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: And he's saying, Good job, sweetheart.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so proud of you.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that some wisdom that I've tried to offer for threes that I've heard has been helpful is learning to exchange that conversation at the end of the day.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: I obviously love examine and going through that, but part of that is going through and thinking, how much did they love today?
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: What are the ways that they showed up, offered presents, took a break, and they're gonna recount the list, but could it be a different list?
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's such sweet beauty that develops after that because it it shifts what you're looking for, and it even reminds you through the day what is it that I want to remember at the end of the day?
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: And there's always a list, and there's always a further goal to reach and another obstacle to conquer, hills to climb, worlds to win.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: But oftentimes the gift in the present of loving people well and showing up for them, and at the end, even showing up for yourselves and receiving all that God is saying about you and towards you in love and acceptance, and He's proud of you, exactly how it is right now.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, there's always more, but this is also just enough in this moment.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, anyway, interrupt the narrative.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's the word that came to mind when you were saying all of that.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's like interrupt the narrative, go, okay, I didn't quite do that, but I did do this and this, and and just give yourself credit where it's due in those moments.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is so good.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I am thrilled that I have several Enneagram threes ready and willing to be on the podcast.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: It is not like the Enneagram five where I am begging, I am pleading, I am offering big things.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, just kidding.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I have threes, threes ready, ready to share some of their story and their experience.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm hopeful because I feel that there's, I think we both are going.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: Do we know enough about the three to share here today that was real?
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope that our three friend listening feels honored, feels seen, and also knows even better stories are around the corner that you'll be raising.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, that's me, me too.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really good.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you, Deanna.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: Enneagram two month is around the corner.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: But in the meantime, I pray that our threes really receive the truth that they are worthy and loved before they do a thing.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, amen to that.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for joining me for the Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: If this conversation spoke to you, please share it with a friend.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: You can also visit simply wholehearted.com to take the free Enneagram quiz and also get your personalized podcast playlist specific for your Enneagram type.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: And remember, friend, your starting point doesn't have to be your stuck point.