Latest / Early Edition with Ryan Bridge / Michael Johnson: New Zealand Initiative Research Fellow on $131 million dollar education package

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Michael Johnson: New Zealand Initiative Research Fellow on $131 million dollar education package · Early Edition with Ryan Bridge

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Now Erica Stanford says the punt on structured literacy is
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: already paying dividends.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Writing in year six, Mathematics are increasing by five percent
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: and six percent, respectively. This exceeded our expectation.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Now we've got this announcement of pouring one hundred and
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: thirty one million dollars out of the budget into education
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  Speaker 1: targeting reading, writing, maths years zero through eight. Michael Johnston
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  Speaker 1: is with US New Zealand Initiative Research Fellow Chair of
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: the Education Ministerial Advisory Group. Good morning, good morning Ryan.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: This money enough in going in the right places.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: I think so. I think getting the early literacy and
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  Speaker 2: mathematics right is key to a whole lot of other
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: success later on. So it's a very good thing to
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  Speaker 2: support to make sure that our teachers have the tools
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  Speaker 2: and the training they need to deliver all of this.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: And hats off to them. They've got some really good
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: results already in writing and math.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: When we say they need the tools, what tools do
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  Speaker 1: they not have? I mean it's reading. This need a book,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: don't you or is it not?
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: As sim well, we're looking at particular kinds of books
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: being supplied called decodable texts and They're really useful to
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: establish the correspondences between spelling and sound because all the
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: words in them are regularly spelled, which means they conformed
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: to those rules. So that's an important for a particular
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: stage of teaching reading.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Did these results just blow up this argument around structured
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: literacy that it was going to be this terrible thing?
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  Speaker 2: Well, it certainly isn't a terrible thing. If it's causing
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  Speaker 2: a left in writing. It takes a while to bed
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: these things in, so I'd expect to see the same
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: happening and reading before long. I certainly think the data
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: challenged that argument.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Yes, and it sort of bigs the question why we
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: were led down that path and stayed on it for
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: so long, you know what I mean?
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I mean there was a bit of ideology
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: behind it.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that sounds like it was. Okay, So we've got
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: our resources come, our teachers seem to be on board.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: What more do we need to do to turn this
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: ship around?
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: We just need to keep at it, you know, for
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: a few years. Unfortunately, educational reform doesn't follow a political timetable,
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  Speaker 2: so you don't necessarily see booming results in one electoral cycle.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: It takes time for the practice to bed in and
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: for the techniques to show in the data.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: You worried about where the money is coming from. I mean,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: the unions are obviously a bit concerned about This has
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: been partly reprioritized from other places. We're just not sure where.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Well, it may be other parts of the economy or
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: government spending. I doubt that that we cuts to other Well,
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: we've got the fees free thing being cut for universities
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: and I support that because it's a failed policy. It
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: hasn't done anything to lift enrollments at the university from
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: low associo and backgrounds. That's a lot of money that
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: I think that's going into vocational education at the other
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: end of education that I very much doubt that we'll
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: see any money cut from the school sector.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it wouldn't make much sense at a time like this, Michael.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Just a final question. I don't know whether you've been
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: across overnight. Eric Schmidt, who's a former Google boss, was
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  Speaker 1: speaking to a bunch of students Arizona State and they
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: were all booing when he was talking about AI. All
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: the students, you know, they about to graduate from university,
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  Speaker 1: go and get jobs. Except AI has swooped in there
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  Speaker 1: and taken the jobs from them. What do you tell
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: people about AI? You know, what on earth do you study?
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: Do you bother studying? What do you do to make
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: sure you get a job at the end of all
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: of this education?
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Well, to be honest, at the school end of things,
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't change all that much. I mean, it's fine
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: for some older kids to learn what AI is, and
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: we certainly need to teach young people to learn use
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: it responsibly. But there's a great danger if we think
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: that we can just throw it at education, Willy Nilly
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: will have a whole lot of kids who don't learn
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  Speaker 2: any knowledge for themselves. And if they don't learn any knowledge,
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: they can't be creative and they can't think critically. So actually,
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: what we need to do in education is not changed
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: all that much by the advent of AI. It doesn't
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: really change what kids need to learn, except that they
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: do need some specific skills around using AI well and
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: not have to undermine their learning.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Doctor Michael Johnston, New Zealand Initiative Research Fellow with me
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  Speaker 1: this morning for more from early edition with Ryan Bridge.
• 4:37
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