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RTC136: "My boss asked me to dinner but made me split the bill..." · The Curve

0:00
Welcome to Raising the Curve, a podcast designed to teach you everything that you need to know to be better with your money.
0:06
Come and learn alongside me, Sophie Hallwright, a total beginner from the finance expert Victoria Harris.
0:12
So I've asked all of the questions you wish you could so that finance, investing and growing your wealth actually makes sense.
0:18
Yes, it's expert education but with promise will not be boring. And in the wise words of sheer...
0:22
My mom said to me, you know sweetheart, one day you should settle down and marry a rich man.
0:28
My mom, I am a rich man. Come and talk and learn and laugh with us because together we really can raise the curve.
0:36
We've got a brand new, I was about to say segment but it's kind of an ongoing episode isn't it?
0:41
Yeah, it's like a curve tangent.
0:42
A little off-shoot from our podcast.
0:46
Since we've been doing the curve podcast we've had so many awesome DMs from people who have had weird wonderful awkward curveballs.
0:55
You know the sorts of things you talked to your friends about, relationship problems, think that but there's some kind of money angle in there.
1:02
So we decided to call this curveballs.
1:04
It's a way of bringing the community into the podcast more and helping with any money related issues that you might be having.
1:10
And I love the name curveballs. So these creative genius.
1:15
We thought we need to get an expert in because, you know, well Sophie and I are great at some things.
1:20
It's not this.
1:21
And so we didn't want to give advice. So we were like, let's get an expert in.
1:24
So we've got the incredible Dr. Liv who is Australia's leading relationship expert.
1:29
She's known for guiding people through things like love, family relationships, business connections.
1:35
And she was just like a modern day cupid. She was insane.
1:39
And also she kind of really spoke to me personally to the point that I was like, okay.
1:44
She was like shifting on the couch like awkwardly like, okay, okay, back to the other curveballs.
1:51
She's got a really diverse background.
1:53
So she's worked in relationships and psychology and teaching and coaching.
1:57
She's done hypnotherapy, which is something I've always been interested in.
2:01
But she essentially combines academic expertise with practical strategies.
2:06
So whether that be a romantic relationship, a friendship, whatever.
2:10
She was a really perfect person because a lot of the curveballs that come through
2:14
are not just romantic situations between partnerships.
2:17
A lot of them were friends or family members.
2:19
So we're going to jump straight to that.
2:22
But if you have any curveballs that you would like us and Dr. Liv to talk about
2:27
or give you some kind of resolution then just send us a DM.
2:30
It's three throw to her now.
2:31
Let's do it.
2:32
Do you want to read the first one?
2:41
Yeah.
2:42
Okay.
2:43
Brace yourself.
2:44
Brace yourself.
2:45
Hi.
2:46
I have a bit of a curveball.
2:47
I'd love to hear your thoughts on.
2:48
So basically I work for a company based in the US, but I'm living in the UK.
2:52
Last week my boss came to visit and he suggested we go to a really nice restaurant.
2:56
In my head I thought, oh my god, yum.
2:58
I've always wanted to try the certain restaurant.
3:00
But when it came to paying for the bill, he asked to split it with me.
3:03
I was kind of shocked because it was 90 pounds.
3:07
And if it was just a catch up, I would have 1,000% suggested that we just go to a cheap pub.
3:11
He knows exactly what I earn, which is only 45,000 pounds.
3:14
Is it fair for me to feel a little bit gutter that he didn't pay for the meal?
3:17
Especially when he suggested the fancy restaurant.
3:20
I would love to hear your thoughts.
3:21
Yeah, no way.
3:22
He definitely should have paid for that.
3:25
That's what I mean.
3:27
Being a boss myself, there was just no way I would take my team to an expensive restaurant and expect them to pay.
3:36
It's so awkward and rude.
3:39
And don't forget, she was invited.
3:42
So you don't get invited to a dinner and then say how you can also have half the bill.
3:47
He's inviting her to dinner.
3:49
I also think if your boss lives in the States and you're working remotely,
3:53
there's not a whole lot of work culture.
3:56
You know, like you're working remotely.
3:58
He's visiting like one guy or the girl.
4:02
That's almost like team building more out.
4:06
Like it should be up to him to be like, love you working for it.
4:09
You know, like a little bit of...
4:11
Yeah, absolutely.
4:12
You miss out on that if you're working remotely.
4:14
You don't get that team bonding experience.
4:16
What do you suggest she could have done in that situation though?
4:19
Like how do you navigate that conversation at the time?
4:22
I think there's a power play here as well.
4:25
That's her boss.
4:27
So she's going to feel a little bit intimidated to question,
4:31
you know, are you paying?
4:33
Is this on the company?
4:34
She's just, you know, like it's an awkward conversation.
4:37
So depending on sort of her status in the organization,
4:41
depends on the quality of the conversation she's going to have, right?
4:44
I also feel a little bit like if...
4:48
I mean, firstly, I would never do that.
4:50
I think that's really uncomfortable.
4:52
And actually, I've got so many friends just for context in London,
4:55
who are earning similar amounts to what this girl messaged in.
4:59
And they have to be so careful the times that they go out for dinners.
5:04
It's a really pick and choose.
5:06
Maybe you want to try some out because it's expensive.
5:08
I would be fuming and so gutted if the one time that I'd spent my like monthly going out budget
5:15
was with my boss without realizing it.
5:17
Yeah, I don't know if she could have had foresight in interviews
5:21
because the assumption is my boss is coming
5:24
and he's going to take me to dinner.
5:26
You know, that would be her assumption.
5:28
So yeah, I think it's a very big power play.
5:31
Is it like afterwards maybe sending an email and saying,
5:34
hey, just wanted to check was that dinner?
5:38
Something you'll be reversible.
5:40
Yeah.
5:42
Because I actually don't have enough money for my rent.
5:46
You don't want to be in a good place.
5:48
No, you can't like, you can't like, it's funny.
5:50
I actually have a similar story and I remember travelling heaps for work
5:55
and we had to pay for flights upfront in accommodation
5:59
and then we'd get all reimbursed with work when we would return
6:02
and we'd have all our expenses and everything.
6:04
And I remember this one trip I couldn't afford.
6:07
Like I didn't have any money to pay upfront.
6:10
And I knew I was going to reimbursed my work, it wasn't an issue.
6:12
But I remember talking to my parents about it,
6:14
and I borrow money off you so I can pay for this flight
6:17
for then to go on this work trip.
6:19
And my parents were like, absolutely not.
6:21
Just ask your work to pay for it or to front load your,
6:26
you know, or give your credit card or something.
6:28
And I was just like, absolutely not.
6:30
I was like, because then I'm telling them,
6:32
I'm shit with my money, I can't afford certain things.
6:35
And it was like this whole dynamic.
6:37
And then I, anyway, I picked up my big girl pants and I didn't say that.
6:41
And they were like, oh, of course, like, yes, so sorry.
6:44
We didn't even think, you know?
6:46
And I was just like, here I was stressing.
6:49
And of course there's going to be people my age that can't fork out,
6:53
like sometimes you're a couple of thousand dollars for a work trip.
6:56
Yeah. And I was just like so glad I had that conversation.
6:59
I think for her, maybe afterwards when he's asked to split the bill,
7:04
it could be something where she turns around and says,
7:07
oh, I'm sorry. I thought that was a work, a work dinner.
7:12
I thought that was a professional dinner.
7:13
I didn't realize it was personal or splitting the bill.
7:16
Oh, it's just so good.
7:19
I feel really sorry for her because I honestly am why she didn't do it in the moment.
7:22
Yeah. No, definitely my take is he should have paid.
7:25
My agree. I think it's a unanimous he should have paid.
7:28
And I think the best approach now since she hasn't significantly
7:31
think while they were going to pay.
7:33
Also, sorry, side note.
7:34
I think a good thing to do in that situation is to joke about it.
7:37
Like to bring a bit of light in us be like, oh, come on.
7:39
It's going on the company hard surely.
7:40
Yeah.
7:41
You know, as like a way to lighten the mood and be like,
7:44
are you even joking?
7:46
I think the next time she's asked it in us, she can joke about it.
7:50
So do I need to bring my parents credit card or is it your shoutout?
7:53
Yes.
7:54
Yeah.
7:55
That's a good one.
7:56
And if you're too awkward to do something about it now in hindsight
7:59
because it feels like it's the moment's gone and you just feel to awkward,
8:02
that's a good approach for next time either bring it up at the bill or before you go.
8:06
Make sure you know if you're paying for it or not because then you can choose the location.
8:10
What if you did get to the point of swing the bill and you didn't have the money?
8:13
Like, what?
8:14
I think that's her point.
8:15
She's like 90 pounds for dinner when you're on 45,000 pounds.
8:19
But what if you genuinely had no way to pay for that?
8:23
I mean, she would have to call it.
8:25
She would say, I'm sorry, I wasn't anticipating paying for the bill.
8:28
I didn't bring the money or I don't have it.
8:31
It's so funny because even hearing you say these things, it's like making me feel really a he.
8:35
I know.
8:36
Like, I know that you're right and I know that that kind of straight and to the point communication
8:41
is so important.
8:43
But it goes against everything we've been told as woman to be polite, to not be like,
8:48
you know, ruffling feathers.
8:50
Like, what are you laughing at?
8:51
The next curve ball.
8:52
Oh, what?
8:53
Oh my gosh.
8:54
Sorry.
8:55
Go on.
8:58
These are anonymous curve balls that have been sent in.
9:02
Okay.
9:03
This one was actually fixed.
9:04
I used it as inspiration and I didn't tell it that we were going to use it.
9:06
Give it to us.
9:07
Come on.
9:08
Come on.
9:09
Maybe you just, all right.
9:10
Well, you're just going to say what happened now.
9:12
Okay.
9:13
High curve team.
9:15
Okay.
9:16
Well, I knew you wouldn't share it.
9:18
I know.
9:19
Okay.
9:20
So we had on a first date last week.
9:24
We met at a cafe while, don't know, and decided to go for a pizza date.
9:28
To see the scene, he chose quite a shit spot.
9:30
I think it was Nando's, but the pizza chain.
9:33
It was pizzeria's.
9:34
And when the bill came, he asked to split it.
9:37
Now, I realized this sounds a little snobby, but it cost about 35 pounds.
9:42
We didn't get drinks.
9:43
It wasn't expensive.
9:44
I would have assumed he would get it.
9:46
And I know I'd get the next one, but that's not what happened.
9:49
I'm also conflicted about going a second date because I already feel as I would
9:52
financially misaligned what are your thoughts to preface this.
9:56
This is the first first date I've been on where the bill has been split
10:01
and they haven't played for it.
10:02
And I remember coming back into the office and the girls were like, how was the date?
10:07
And the first thing I was like, he's put the bill.
10:11
And the fact that that was the thing that I hung on from the date wasn't like
10:16
great chat, great looking guy, you know, anything like that.
10:20
But I do feel a bit snobby.
10:22
Can I ask you, apart from the bill issue, what was the date like?
10:28
If you had to take that part away, tell me about the date.
10:31
It was really good.
10:33
And we even spoke about a second date.
10:35
Yeah, it was like the conversation was flowing all of that.
10:38
And then I think the splitting the bill almost put a bad taste in my mouth,
10:43
which is horrible to say, but you're being honest.
10:46
I think it's good.
10:47
I also had two pieces of pizza and he had the risk.
10:53
Very important detail.
10:54
Thank you for sharing.
10:55
You got ripped off.
10:56
No, there's two things happening here.
10:59
I'm going to put it out there.
11:01
He could be not sure how to take a woman that is successful
11:07
and feels like he wants to give you the platform of an even playing field.
11:12
And it's not that he couldn't pay it.
11:15
He could, but he chose, he didn't know whether to go there or not.
11:19
And he was like, I'll just split it so we're on this even playing field
11:23
and she doesn't feel like I don't think she's capable.
11:26
Well, didn't he say something like that?
11:29
No, but I think that was probably it because there was a long pause
11:34
when she came with the machine.
11:37
But I also think it's a bit tough for me and in those situations
11:42
when it's a male, female date
11:46
and they don't want to, what's the word, a mess?
11:50
Insult us by paying.
11:53
They don't know how we're going to react.
11:55
Like you say, you're a successful woman.
11:58
Okay, I don't want to insult her.
12:00
I wanted to give her the platform to pay if she wants.
12:03
But I'm like, insult me.
12:05
Yeah.
12:06
But everyone's different.
12:07
That's the thing.
12:08
Some people really don't want to be paid for.
12:11
And so it's, I think actually it comes down to just having a conversation
12:14
about like, how do you feel?
12:15
I mean, I don't know.
12:16
I think Dr. Lurve might may need to button here
12:19
because I'm absolutely not a relationship expert.
12:21
But I imagine, yeah, you're right.
12:23
It's hard for guys.
12:24
That's right.
12:25
There's two options.
12:26
One of them is the one that we suggested about him giving you an even playing field.
12:31
The other one is you're not financially aligned.
12:34
Basically, it doesn't matter how much fun you have at some point.
12:37
If you're not financially aligned,
12:39
it's a value proposition in a relationship.
12:42
And the relationship ultimately won't work.
12:45
Can you elaborate on that?
12:47
Yeah.
12:48
So your values around finances are just as important as your values around family,
12:53
around connection and intimacy, around spirituality.
12:57
They're all moving parts to the big puzzle.
13:01
And that's why we see so many relationships fall apart
13:04
when their financial values do not align.
13:07
When you say they do not align.
13:09
Because I guess if we're using this as an example,
13:12
let's just say, for argument's sake, he did have the money
13:15
and he is financially pretty sound.
13:18
Are we saying values or what they have at that time?
13:23
Because it's really different to say like,
13:25
we like spending money on similar things with similar aspirations.
13:28
But if at that point in time they're not able to,
13:31
like I'm just, I just love to clarify that.
13:34
Absolutely.
13:35
So you've got values as in the way you like to interact with finances
13:42
and what you do with it.
13:44
Or you've got the value is in the dollar amount of how much you have.
13:50
So you could be with a gentleman that is filthy rich,
13:55
a multimillionaire billionaire.
13:57
But the way his values around money and the way he interacts with money
14:02
and the way he's either stringent, open, he shares
14:07
all of those type of values that go with the money
14:10
makes a difference on how he deals with money in the relationship.
14:14
So it's not the value as in he had the money at the time
14:18
because you could go with somebody that is quite wealthy
14:22
but they will still split the bill and they can afford it.
14:26
Is it something like being with someone that's like,
14:29
well, no, everything should be split 50-50.
14:32
That's my value.
14:33
Like in terms of what I value is that everyone splits 50-50
14:38
and yours might be like, well, no, I think it should be proportionate on income.
14:42
Yeah.
14:43
I think.
14:44
Do you know is it kind of like that?
14:45
It can be because you're looking,
14:47
the difference is you're looking at equality versus being equitable, right?
14:52
Yes, yes.
14:53
And this is kind of what I mean because I think you can meet people
14:56
who maybe you're aligned from a value standpoint but not from an equity standpoint.
15:01
So you might date someone who can afford to go on a super yacht in Greece
15:06
but has misaligned values around money
15:09
or you could date someone that one day wants to go on a super yacht in Greece
15:13
but can't currently afford it but the way that you approach finances is similar.
15:17
Do you know what I mean?
15:18
I think it's there's equity and there's equality.
15:22
No, I think it's values and equity.
15:25
There's equity.
15:26
Help us.
15:27
We're misaligned.
15:28
No, because you're both saying or you're both saying the same thing.
15:33
You're just using different words.
15:35
Okay.
15:36
Right?
15:37
You're both ultimately saying the same thing.
15:39
It's what is how you interact and the relationship you have with money
15:45
is going to fit with the relationship the way I have a relationship with money.
15:49
So if you are quite generous and you are a type of person that, you know,
15:55
your love language is gifts or, you know, experiences or, you know,
16:00
and you're going to date somebody that doesn't even appreciate gifts
16:05
or being generous or giving them an experience.
16:08
It doesn't work unless you learn how each other, each other's value system.
16:15
Values trump everything.
16:17
It doesn't matter how many dollars you have in the bank account.
16:20
Values will always trump anything in a relationship.
16:23
But it's just interesting because like, I think if we look at Vic who is so generous,
16:28
like she's so generous, maybe that's why that felt really misaligned for you
16:32
because you would be someone that would be like, I'll pay for it.
16:36
And so the fact that he didn't, it's not so much that he, whether or not he has the money,
16:40
it's the fact that he didn't opt for the generous option.
16:44
And for you, that's what you value.
16:46
Yeah, yeah.
16:48
So Victoria, in that scenario, I wouldn't say I wouldn't go on a second date.
16:55
I would actually take the second date.
16:59
And I would actually give him feedback about what that date felt like for you.
17:04
And this is hard, this is a hard conversation, right?
17:07
Women struggle with this because, and this is why we don't ever get what we want
17:11
because we find it really difficult to talk about what we want.
17:15
And we almost feel like they've got to get it right the first time,
17:18
otherwise that's it.
17:20
But sometimes they need a little bit of hand holding.
17:23
This is such a good point.
17:25
If it means that you have the second date and Rahe, you have this conversation
17:30
and you say, you know, I really enjoyed our date last time.
17:34
It ticked all of my boxes.
17:36
There was probably one thing that I felt uncomfortable with.
17:39
And I'm going to be transparent with you.
17:41
I've actually never split a bill with somebody.
17:43
And that was the first experience I've ever had.
17:46
And I just wasn't comfortable with it.
17:48
But everything else was okay.
17:50
Most men would be okay.
17:52
I feel awkward for you. It's not even happening.
17:54
There's poor boy being a little content punching bag.
17:57
Right.
17:58
Most women will be, it's the women that don't feel okay with that.
18:02
We go straight to our gut.
18:04
We go, oh, that's cringe.
18:06
The blocs appreciate the feedback.
18:09
They are struggling to work out how to navigate the dating scene.
18:14
And because they don't know what to do for women anymore.
18:17
Do they open the door?
18:19
Do they pull out the seat?
18:20
Do they, you know, hold our hand?
18:22
Do they hold the umbrella for us?
18:24
Do they, you know, pay for our dinner?
18:26
A lot of them are struggling because they know that you're quite confident and capable.
18:31
Will I offend this woman?
18:33
I really like her.
18:35
And I don't want her to think that I don't think she's capable.
18:38
But I still want to look after her.
18:40
Oh, this is such a good conversation.
18:42
Because I'm just even thinking about the time.
18:45
Because I really appreciate when someone carries my bag.
18:48
For example, because I just can't be bothered.
18:50
It's not that I can't.
18:52
I'm just like, well, it's so easy for you.
18:54
Your huge and have way bigger muscles can just pick that up.
18:56
So I'm fine with that.
18:59
I hate that.
19:01
I would rather struggle with team bags than...
19:05
But why it's so weird?
19:07
Because it's like, they're my bags.
19:09
I can do it.
19:10
I can hold them.
19:11
Yeah.
19:12
No.
19:13
Victoria, I'll tell you something now.
19:16
You're a beautiful intelligent woman.
19:19
Thank you.
19:20
I agree.
19:21
You deserve for somebody to hold your bags and appreciate your femininity.
19:26
You don't have to have a set of boobs and a set of balls at the same time.
19:32
You not allowing a man to do that for you.
19:38
This is a gift.
19:40
This is not saying you can't carry your own bags.
19:43
This is you meeting men at a masculine vibrational level.
19:51
Which means you won't end up ever in a relationship,
19:54
because you'll be like a mate.
19:57
And even if you do end up in a relationship,
19:59
it'll always be with someone that is less than you vibrationally,
20:02
because he'll always let you carry your bag.
20:05
We've had some penny drop moments.
20:07
I can sit the eyes glazing over.
20:09
I'm like, I think...
20:12
No, it's just like...
20:14
And this is...
20:15
Yeah, I've been doing a lot of work on this.
20:17
It's very confronting, but in a good way.
20:22
Yeah.
20:23
It's probably time if you're working on it,
20:27
because you normally work on the stuff that you're ready to unpack.
20:30
But for you, I would be saying probably reflect on why is it you want to meet men
20:37
at the same level as that they come to you.
20:40
We are women.
20:41
We have a very different vibration.
20:44
And we are our best in every part of our lives when we act like women.
20:49
Men are built physically different to us for a reason.
20:54
Our strength is in our femininity.
20:57
Our strength is in our ability to lean on a man
21:00
and let him do what he needs to do while we flourish
21:03
and do what we love and want to do.
21:05
How does that work?
21:07
I know we are going in terms of equality.
21:09
Yeah.
21:10
In terms of wanting to earn as much as them, be equal participants in the workforce
21:17
and all of that while still being like, hold my bags.
21:21
I want to be feminine and I want to be more of a traditional role.
21:24
I think you're hearing them differently.
21:26
I might be wrong, but it's different to say I want a traditional role
21:29
to letting someone step into something that's easy for them, i.e. lifting a bag.
21:33
Because it's so easy for them.
21:35
I don't know, maybe Dr. Love you can button.
21:38
So you've got this underlying mindset or belief
21:43
and I'm going to call it a limiting belief about a man helping you
21:48
equals you are less than.
21:51
Oh my gosh.
21:53
Huge unlock.
21:55
You're so right.
21:57
I've never thought of it like that.
21:58
I reckon it was with everyone.
22:00
People helping me means that I am less than.
22:06
Oh my God.
22:07
That's why I hate asking for help.
22:10
I can do it.
22:11
I'm fine.
22:12
But it's more prevalent differently in relationships.
22:15
And so, Victoria, what you find is that you will go through life alone
22:22
and being alone also equates to feeling lonely.
22:27
So you can be as busy as you like, but you will feel lonely
22:32
because the women of the village rely on people.
22:35
We don't do it on our own.
22:37
This is not where I thought this podcast was going.
22:39
At all.
22:41
But I'm glad in that.
22:43
So can we just circle back then to how we can sit in a place of feeling feminine,
22:48
whether it be dating in relationships,
22:50
while also feeling powerful in our jobs, feeling like we're equals
22:54
because I think there is, it's so much how people use toxic masculinity
22:58
all the time in the wrong setting.
23:01
I think that the idea of quality, verse, lenient,
23:04
your feminine is often really muddy.
23:06
Can we just clarify what you mean there?
23:09
It's really muddy.
23:10
Just like it is muddy as in for men not knowing what masculinity looks like.
23:14
You know, is it the traditional, I'm strong, let me carry your bags
23:18
or is it, I feel strong enough as a man to let you be as successful as you want
23:23
and for me to be proud that you were earning that much money
23:26
without me putting a glass ceiling.
23:29
That's masculinity, right?
23:31
We're both like, I'm sure.
23:33
We experienced it.
23:35
You can't, I know for sure Victoria hasn't,
23:37
because she won't, she wouldn't allow it,
23:40
because it's too risky to go there,
23:42
because all we do, we protect ourselves constantly, constantly.
23:47
So as a woman, being feminine,
23:50
it doesn't mean you're putting the apron on
23:53
and you're doing the domestic chores.
23:55
That's not it.
23:56
If you look at the pure essence of a woman,
23:59
it's about we have a womb.
24:02
We are creative.
24:04
We need to be doing the things we love.
24:06
We have flow, we have emotions.
24:08
We need to be fluid.
24:10
When we lose the fluidity and we lose our creativity
24:14
because we are so bent on not being less than,
24:18
we become masculine, we become very, very stern,
24:22
we become very controlled in the way we do things.
24:25
And we lose our flow.
24:27
That's exciting.
24:28
I'm like, mix, mix.
24:30
Okay.
24:32
So Victoria, have the second date.
24:36
Have the second date.
24:38
Okay.
24:39
Nice.
24:40
Okay, I'm going to read the next one.
24:43
Please promise that this will remain anonymous,
24:46
because it was all good as fuck.
24:48
I was with my now ex for seven years.
24:50
We were engaged, so I paid for things like flights,
24:52
upgraded our accommodation,
24:54
above what I knew that he could afford
24:56
and just generally put more money into experiences that we had.
25:00
Now, since we're separating and officially considered de facto,
25:03
is that the same in Australia,
25:05
where if you're with someone for like a couple of years,
25:07
you're technically the same laws apply financially,
25:10
if you've been to give birth to them.
25:12
Yeah, yeah.
25:13
He's entitled to half my house, which I put more into,
25:15
and front foot of most their invasions.
25:17
I'm feeling a bit better about it.
25:19
I don't know how to approach it now that we're separated.
25:21
It's all getting messy.
25:22
He's wanting to take more than what he should be entitled to,
25:26
given I didn't take the time off to have kids or anything.
25:30
So I think what maybe what she's meaning is,
25:32
it wasn't as though he deserves to take half of her stuff
25:36
because he wasn't supporting her and taking time off work, maybe.
25:40
Feeling awkward, talking to friends about this,
25:42
so any thoughts or help would be really appreciated.
25:45
Does she have children?
25:47
No.
25:48
So I think the thing is they were together for seven years.
25:50
She put more money into their house, into, you know,
25:54
upgrading accommodation, things like that.
25:55
She obviously had more like disposable income.
25:58
Now they're separating.
25:59
He is entitled to half,
26:01
and she's feeling really annoyed about it because...
26:04
She's obviously gone above and beyond.
26:06
She's gone above and beyond throughout the relationship.
26:08
And she has more money and she's put more into the house
26:11
and they haven't had kids or anything,
26:13
so they've both just been working their own jobs.
26:16
Yeah.
26:17
Unfortunately, that's a really hard position.
26:19
I know that in, I don't know if it's in the UK,
26:22
you can just sort of like sift through
26:25
what your contribution looked like financially
26:27
and do a percentage base.
26:29
So you can go to court and fight
26:32
what your financial interest is in those assets.
26:36
But, you know, at the end of the day,
26:38
it's the lawyers that get the money
26:40
and you're fighting and you don't know when it ends.
26:42
Like, or do you go to meet...
26:44
The other option is to go to mediation
26:46
and put it on the table and say,
26:48
hey, this is the truth.
26:51
I think it's a big learning from this.
26:54
It's like putting it in writing beforehand,
26:58
particularly around the house in terms of,
27:00
okay, I've only put in...
27:02
I've put in 80%, you've put in 20%,
27:05
when we sell it,
27:07
that's what you get back.
27:08
I don't know.
27:09
I actually know a few people this has happened to the same.
27:12
I know, I've got a couple of clients
27:14
going through this at the moment
27:15
and they are literally getting seven years worth
27:19
of bank statements,
27:20
bank mortgage statements,
27:22
where the payments came from.
27:23
There's almost like a paper trail that they've had to get
27:26
to then say to the court,
27:28
here we go.
27:30
That's so messy.
27:31
This is how I paid for everything.
27:33
This was my contribution.
27:34
It becomes messy.
27:35
Sounds expensive.
27:37
Yeah.
27:38
And expensive.
27:39
Yeah.
27:40
It's the worst part of this is the bitterness you feel.
27:43
How annoyed would you be if you were like,
27:45
damn, I didn't know I should have put this in writing.
27:47
And now, because things have turned a bit sour,
27:50
he's able to actually take a lot more
27:52
than he should be able to.
27:53
That would really suck.
27:55
Yeah, but Sophie,
27:56
I think do you mean put things in writing prior
27:58
to the relationship?
27:59
Is that what you mean?
28:00
Or just as you're going?
28:02
Well, yeah, I would say prior.
28:04
I think when you get...
28:05
If you've got assets,
28:06
whether it be a house or stocks
28:09
or businesses or anything,
28:12
looking into getting a prenup of some description
28:15
that says,
28:16
going into this relationship,
28:17
these are my things,
28:19
is kind of clever.
28:21
And we've spoken about this a lot,
28:23
but I just...
28:24
I've heard so many times...
28:26
I know if you have kids,
28:27
it's really important that...
28:29
that looks completely different.
28:31
But I think if you haven't taken time out of your career
28:34
and someone hasn't had to support the other person,
28:36
and more or less you've been independent financially,
28:39
to all of a sudden be de facto
28:41
and then be able to access each other's assets 50-50,
28:45
when there's been no real sacrifice
28:47
from one or the other person,
28:48
feels a bit wrong.
28:50
Yeah, it's very unfair.
28:51
So I don't know.
28:52
I would say almost you need to look at getting therapy
28:56
for how you're feeling,
28:58
because it's like knowing what we know about prenups,
29:00
there's not a lot she can do.
29:02
I would think so better.
29:04
Yeah, you don't want it to be impacting you as you move forward,
29:09
because like an experience like this,
29:11
impacts financial decisions moving forward,
29:14
relationships moving forward,
29:16
investments moving forward,
29:18
do you trust people again?
29:20
Like there's so many things that come up from an experience like this.
29:23
It's almost like financial trauma
29:25
you take into your next relationship
29:27
and you might be so anal
29:29
in terms of your finances with the next person.
29:32
Yeah, it's kind of like drawing a line in the sand,
29:35
moving on and realising that was a special case.
29:38
What can I learn,
29:39
but not change my behaviour in terms of substantially.
29:43
Oh, yeah.
29:45
And she may go and change her behaviour.
29:47
She may turn around and say,
29:48
you know what, the next one,
29:49
I will do a prenup.
29:50
And then some people don't like that.
29:52
A lot of people go into relationships
29:54
and when you start to talk about a prenup,
29:56
they're like, you don't trust me.
29:57
Like this relationship is not based on trust
29:59
and I don't want to do it.
30:02
I just want to say to this person,
30:04
obviously will remain anonymous.
30:06
I feel really sorry for you.
30:08
And it sucks that you're feeling like this.
30:10
And it also sucks that you feel like you can't talk to your friends about it.
30:13
Because I think...
30:14
Yeah, that's hard.
30:15
Yeah.
30:16
You need people that you can discuss things with
30:19
to get perspective,
30:21
to have support to work through things.
30:23
I also think, don't look at this as...
30:28
This will severely impact you financially going forward.
30:31
I think if you kind of focus on the fact that like,
30:35
oh my god, I'm losing this amount of money
30:37
to him,
30:39
then that will just consume you.
30:41
And like how much better off I could have been if I had that.
30:43
Like it's just like,
30:44
okay, this was a shitty situation.
30:46
The best way to move forward
30:48
is just to have a positive,
30:49
a more positive mindset.
30:51
And put systems and processes in place,
30:54
it doesn't happen again.
30:55
Because otherwise it will just eat you up.
30:58
No, that's a really good piece of advice.
31:00
It's like people that buy houses
31:02
and the property market goes down,
31:03
they sell it, they've lost money,
31:05
or make a terrible investment decision
31:07
and they're never invest again or never...
31:09
It's like, no, no,
31:10
you're not going to get it always right.
31:12
But like, the sooner you can change your mindset and move on,
31:16
the better off you'll be.
31:18
That's what I...
31:19
That's the analogy I was going to use.
31:21
I was going to use it
31:22
and relate it back to a financial decision.
31:24
And that's ultimately this relationship
31:27
was a bad financial decision.
31:29
Minus the relationship part of it.
31:32
Okay.
31:33
So I think in finances when you think about,
31:36
you know, the mindset of failure,
31:39
there is no failure if you learn from your mistake
31:42
and you get up again
31:43
and you do something different.
31:45
And she has skills that are transferable.
31:48
She had skills that were able to get her in a position
31:50
that she was financially in a good position before,
31:53
which means she takes those skills with her.
31:56
And she just replicates what she's done before
31:58
and she makes money the same way she did in the past.
32:02
So he can't take away the skills that she's got.
32:05
He may be able to take a monetary value
32:08
but he can't take away the skills that you've got to make those.
32:11
You can go out fishing, baby,
32:12
and you can get as much fish as you want.
32:14
I love that.
32:15
So true.
32:16
You can't take away my skills.
32:18
Also, I'm just like,
32:19
I would...
32:20
We have so many more of this to get through.
32:21
Maybe we can do it another time.
32:23
Yeah, yeah.
32:24
We've got so many good ones.
32:25
We've got so many good ones.
32:27
What we'll do is we'll wrap this up here
32:29
and jump on a game that was so helpful.
32:32
Maybe we can do a one-on-one session.
32:35
It's like I didn't have time for a meal.
32:37
This would be really great for me.
32:39
It's definitely jump on again.
32:41
But I thank you so much for your time.
32:43
It's really great getting a different perspective as well,
32:47
because I've done this so many times
32:49
before in terms of having financial conversations,
32:51
but getting an expert in was super, super helpful.
32:53
So thank you so much.
32:54
No worries.
32:55
And appreciate you have a very busy day.
32:57
So, yeah, thank you so much for doing it all the way from Australia.
32:59
Thank you, ladies.
33:00
Thank you for having me.
33:02
Thank you so much for listening to Raising the Curve.
33:04
These conversations are designed to teach you
33:06
everything you need to know to be better with your money,
33:08
saving, to investing, to talking with your friends
33:10
about your salaries or that stuff.
33:12
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33:13
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33:15
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33:16
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33:17
Let us know what you thought about the episode.
33:18
And it only takes one second,
33:20
and it would really make our week a month, our year.
33:23
Yeah, yeah.
33:24
So please do it.
33:25
Okay, love you.
33:26
Bye.