Latest / NDV Podcast: Neurodiverse Voices Connect / Creating Change Through Film with Autistic Filmmaker John Clark

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Creating Change Through Film with Autistic Filmmaker John Clark · NDV Podcast: Neurodiverse Voices Connect

• 0:14
  Welcome back to the Neuro Diverse Voices podcast and hello
• 0:19
  season 4. I'm your host, Andrea Costa, and
• 0:24
  I'm so grateful to have you on that side.
• 0:27
  Over the past three seasons we've shared honest, powerful,
• 0:31
  real stories from neuro divergent people, their
• 0:34
  families, educators and mental health researchers, and together
• 0:39
  we've been part of a growing movement towards understanding,
• 0:44
  acceptance and embracing difference.
• 0:49
  This isn't we are going even deeper.
• 0:52
  We will be. Exploring late diagnosis,
• 0:56
  masking, burnout, menopause, mental health, and how neural
• 1:01
  divergent intersects with identity, culture, and lived
• 1:07
  experience. You'll hear from creative minds,
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  parents, and most importantly from neurodivergent people
• 1:16
  themselves in all their complexity and brilliance.
• 1:21
  So whether you've been with us from the very beginning or this
• 1:26
  is your first time listening or watching, welcome This space is
• 1:32
  for you. Let's begin season 4 of the
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  Neuro Diverse Voices podcast. Hi everyone, Another Friday,
• 1:46
  which means it's time for another interview for the Neuro
• 1:49
  Diverse Voices podcast. And this time I have John Clark
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  with me. So John is the creator of two
• 1:59
  award-winning short films, Aspergers and one of It and also
• 2:04
  Snapshots. So he's a film maker, a
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  scriptwriter and a director and he has lived experience of
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  autism and I'm very, very excited to hear more about his
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  real life story. Welcome, John.
• 2:20
  Thank you. Hello.
• 2:21
  Hello, how are you feeling? Yeah, I'm feeling pretty good.
• 2:24
  Thank you. Good.
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  So shall we start by you telling us a bit of what has brought you
• 2:30
  here, your neurodivergent journey?
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  Can you tell us a bit more about that?
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  I think it's just my life, my life's journey, to be honest,
• 2:41
  both in my personal career, the way they've intertwined.
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  So I was diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome when that
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  term was being used when I was about four.
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  And I was told at 10, at an age that I could understand.
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  That's when I started asking questions, thinking what do I
• 3:00
  fit in my normal, excuse me to the questions like that.
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  And I can remember thinking, OK, you know, it was a light bulb
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  moment. And then I thought, OK, this is
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  me and who I am. But then as a teenager, I
• 3:14
  remember that I masked. And when I got to my early 20s,
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  I'd had enough of masking and I just, it became incredibly, it
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  was a huge mental fatigue constantly putting on this
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  front, constantly suppressing these how I'm dealing with
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  sensory processing and social communication.
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  And I think what inspired me to in it for it to inform my work
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  is especially as there was more of increasing awareness and
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  acceptance for autism, you saw more portrayals of autism in the
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  media. And I just decided that I wanted
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  to chime in my own personal lived experiences.
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  And it's sort of snowballed from there, to be honest, in the way
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  that the pair of them have intertwined.
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  Yeah, it's, it's a common journey.
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  So if we, if we, I'm going to, yeah.
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  Just ask about those times when you you felt those challenges,
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  you know, with social interaction and, and all of it,
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  all of that. So how, how did you feel?
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  Did you have any, any support at the time because you had an
• 4:26
  early diagnosis? But how, how did it feel for
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  you? In terms of support at the
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  school, it was more flow in support at primary school, there
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  was this. They were under the impression
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  that because I was academically intelligent, I was just left
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  alone. But then, but it got to a point,
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  I can remember my mum telling me that there was an intervention
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  and it got to the point where even the caretaker within these
• 4:54
  sort of intervention was seeing that I, he could see that I was
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  struggling some. Some days during break time, I
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  would just wander the playground on my own.
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  And because and especially it was a very confusing time before
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  I even knew all about this, I just thought I was different.
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  I was weird, I was strange. So when I started asking those
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  questions and my mum sat me down and told me all about it, then I
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  realized, right, so that's why this is who I am and this is how
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  I go about and deal with things. Like I think about things in a
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  different way. And so that came on to secondary
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  school and a similar thing. There was floating support
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  initially put in place, but because again, I was sort of
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  deemed academically intelligent a lot of the time, excuse me, I
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  was left alone. And the irony behind masking.
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  At the time, I thought if I show my true self, I'm just going to
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  give bullies more ammo, but it backfired because I was then
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  presenting someone completely different to myself.
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  And as time went on, as I was finishing college and
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  university, I just thought, I can't do this anymore.
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  It's too much. And as a result of just being
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  myself, it, it feels more, it feels more free.
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  And I mean, I also do remember I did get support college and
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  university, but because there's as well, because I was masking a
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  lot of the time, I would hide it from other people because I
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  didn't really want people to know that I was getting support
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  at the time. So I do vaguely remember kind of
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  making up excuses about going different places when I'm, it
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  was support reviews because I was on the DSA on the
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  university. So all that kind of things.
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  I used to get help with constructing essays and that
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  because sometimes I'd be, I'd write through something, I'd
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  write through a few paragraphs and it would just look sort of
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  all over the place. And I need someone to sit there
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  and say, does this actually make sense to you?
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  Because I'm looking at all this wall of text and I'm just
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  thinking, I don't, I don't even know what I've wrote.
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  I just, you know, I just type and see what happens.
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  And so with that support, like sort of floating in and around,
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  yeah, it just, I think I felt more free to be myself
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  afterwards. I'd say so.
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  Yeah, it's, it's liberating to, to understand and yeah, it,
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  your, your story kind of shows that you know that moment of
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  your mum sitting down with you and explaining to you.
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  Of course you had the curiosity as well to ask those questions
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  and try to understand yourself. But it's, it's, it's good to see
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  that at least you, you had some support in, in school because
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  it's not the case for many children.
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  So thank you very much for, for sharing that.
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  So let's talk about more exciting stuff, which is your
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  short film Asperger's and what of it?
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  I haven't watched this one yet. I have to be to be honest.
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  So what has inspired you to, to tell your story in, in that way?
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  And how did it feel when the National Artistic Society
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  recognised it and you won an award for it?
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  I was, I was, I was a finalist for that one and the So that's
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  all right. So the National Autistic Society
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  had a film competition back in 2017.
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  It was called Autism Uncut Film Awards.
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  And at that point I'd already made a short film.
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  So branching off when I stopped masking, I just decided I'm
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  going to make a documentary talking all about it.
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  And that was under the title I have Asperger's.
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  So what? And with the National Artistic
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  Site Competition, the brief was that it needed to be 4 minutes.
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  So I decided to take what I already had, which was a 16
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  minute short film and cut it down into a 4 minute short.
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  And in that as well as that as well as Side of Asperger, So
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  what they both begin with a sensory overload.
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  And that's how I, I always wanted to give it a go to try
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  and depict what it feels like for me.
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  So when you watch Asperger's and more of it, it, it opens with
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  that it's about about 30 seconds long and it's just constant
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  rapid cuts. And that because it was just the
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  way I wanted to try and depict it, especially when there's
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  stresses and anxieties and everything just gets too much.
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  And there were some additional things that I filmed to
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  specifically fit as well, but so I can remember filming
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  additional footage about trying to explain how my words and
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  intent get lost between the brain and the mouth.
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  So I drew sort of a little diagram and added little bits
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  and pieces like that. And honestly, I was just so
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  beside myself that I was selected as a finalist.
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  I genuinely didn't think it was going to happen.
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  I got the e-mail through. I was overjoyed.
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  The entire ceremony was at BAFTA 195 at Piccadilly and I thought
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  this is incredible. And so my film was in the
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  aspiring film makers category where it was a finalist with two
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  others and it was just incredible seeing the whole
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  branch and majority of work there and it come from.
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  So I've had this creative slump at this time.
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  So the fact that not only was I selected as a finalist for this
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  competition, but when they shared it on their social media
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  page, they had thousands of views, all of these hundreds of
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  comments of people basically saying thank you and oh, I, you
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  know, I love this film. I identify with it, this, that
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  and the other. And it was, it just, it gave, it
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  gave me such a much lead, much needed boost because I thought
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  that that was the one thing when I started this creative journey
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  by putting a lot of myself into the work because I thought,
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  well, if I chime in my lived experiences, I'm hoping that
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  others can relate. Others can watch it and think,
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  you know, this, I, I can identify with this as well.
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  I, I relate to how sensory overloads feel.
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  I relate to the frustrations of communication issues.
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  And yeah. And then then, yeah, it's just
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  it was this whole incredible experience.
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  And there was me thinking, that's where it's sort of stop
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  and stop and start, start and stop, you know?
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  Yeah, yeah, it's, it's what keeps us going, isn't it?
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  To, to have that, that fulfilment that we with our
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  projects, that we, we are actually helping others and you
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  know, people actually realise that they, they are not alone.
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  So that's definitely incredible, a massive well, well done, well
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  done to you. And you know, looking at the way
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  your diagnosis shaped the way you created the the film that
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  already existed and then you just had to kind of adjust
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  towards the the the criteria for for selection.
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  So that's fantastic. And then more recently there is
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  a snapshot. That one I watched and I had
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  tears in my eyes. Very good, very good short film.
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  And it delves into the challenges of unemployment and
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  job interviews, which can be quite difficult.
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  And it's not surprising that many autistic people are
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  unemployed because the workplace and, and this traditional or
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  conventional interview process is definitely not a fit for, for
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  many. So tell me, tell me more about,
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  about your experiences, because I'm, I'm pretty sure this also
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  came from your experiences of unemployment and, and going
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  through the interview processes and, and struggling with that.
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  Definitely. So over the past decade or so,
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  I've literally applied for thousands of jobs.
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  And so a lot of them, you either don't receive your response
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  back, you get an unfortunately, or we regret to inform or on the
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  off chance of an interview, it doesn't transpire very well.
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  It doesn't pan out very well because I've often had the issue
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  of being unable to translate what I wrote on the application
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  form into into spoken into the, you know, being able to
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  verbalize it. So and a lot of the what you see
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  from the interviewers, the remarks and that I've received
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  similar, a lot of it is based off that.
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  So when I started writing it, those experiences pretty much
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  informed the story and the moment where there's the
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  experiences on the public transport as well are all based
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  off mine. And it's when because
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  environment and the emotion and what happens on the day always
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  is an important factor to the play, especially when there's a
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  lot going on. The fact that you'd be sat on a
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  bus and every noise, every sight and every smell of everything
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  just great. Sonia it's like now it's down a
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  chalkboard and you know, it's that frustration of also being
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  unable to probably express yourself, especially when The
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  thing is the most difficult thing I've found is hanging on
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  to past and present mistake that that frustration to unable to
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  express yourself properly. And when the past and present
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  mistakes collide and it really wreaks havoc on yourself worth
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  and your well-being, you know, you feel like the worst person
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  in the world because you can't do these simple tasks.
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  You can't go into an interview. You can't get this job.
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  Or if you do get the job, you can't retain it.
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  And then you also get caught in these disclosure cycles as well
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  because you think, yeah, Because you think you're unable to do
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  all of these things that everyone else can do.
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  And you just think, am I not good enough?
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  And it just makes you feel that incredibly low.
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  And that's what we wanted, I wanted to try and depict in
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  SNAPSHOT. But then contrastingly, you've
• 15:50
  got the 2 characters of primary support.
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  So you have a support worker, Janet, and then you have Sandra
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  in the last interview. And these people are based on
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  people that I know, that they're the ones that are accepting and
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  are understanding, the ones that will make reasonable adjustments
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  as well. Because I mean, that was the
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  main, main thing with the story of Snapshot is the fact that
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  these other interviewers, because they, they think to
• 16:21
  themselves, you know, that they sat there and they've got there,
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  but they're unaware that it's always the small distractions.
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  There's always the little things that hardly help and they all
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  add up. So if the second interviewer
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  who's clicking the pen and it's clearly great in him or it's the
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  bright white lights and it's just everything on top of that
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  as well as having to try and convey and sell yourself to be
• 16:43
  able to get up for the job. So and the fact that it's making
• 16:47
  those reasonable adjustments so that someone can thrive.
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  And that was one of the sort of important messages that we tried
• 16:55
  to convey with Snapshot. Yeah.
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  And having, I think having those people who, who kind of get you
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  and, and support you is, is, is key, is, is very important.
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  I'm also curious to know if if you asked for reasonable
• 17:19
  adjustments and they were just denied or did you not feel like
• 17:24
  you would have to let them know that you are near divergent so
• 17:30
  that those reasonable adjustments took place during
• 17:33
  the interviews? Again, I think it was just a, it
• 17:37
  was a disclosure conundrum. It was almost this cycle because
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  you thought, you think, do I disclose my autism and risk them
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  thinking, you know, what's wrong with him?
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  And there's the risk that if I do get the job and then further
• 17:53
  down the line, something happens if I have a meltdown or shut
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  down, and then I've got to explain myself.
• 17:59
  And then I'll say, well, I'm autistic.
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  And then they, they'll probably turn around.
• 18:04
  Well, they've turned around and said, well, why didn't you say
• 18:06
  something in the 1st place? But then also on the other hand,
• 18:09
  if you disclose your autism on the interview, a lot of
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  interviewers kind of see that as a, you know, they, they almost
• 18:17
  get put off by it in it's very most this passive.
• 18:22
  I don't know about discrimination really, but the
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  fact that you know, when you do ask for reasonable adjustments,
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  if you try and ask for them either at the interview in
• 18:34
  specific jobs or while you're working there, I don't know.
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  In my previous experience, you just get the impression that
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  you're asking for the moon, that you're asking for something
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  grand and extraordinary when all you're doing, all you're asking
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  for is just simple adjustments that will help you thrive.
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  And it shouldn't feel like that. It should feel more accepting.
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  It should feel like, OK, well, if you want to be sacked closer
• 19:00
  to this location, then that's fine.
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  There should be that room for flexibility because a lot of
• 19:06
  autistic people, especially those that I know, have so much
• 19:09
  to offer. But it's these barriers, just
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  these initial barriers that have stopped them from firing and
• 19:17
  progressing because it's these, it's almost these snap
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  judgements that people make. Absolutely.
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  I think it's unconscious bias and it it all, it all goes, goes
• 19:30
  back to the stigma that they're still around, you know, neuro
• 19:37
  divergent and this, this lack of understanding.
• 19:40
  Yes, we know that things are getting better.
• 19:42
  There's a lot more information, there's a lot more awareness,
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  but there's still a lot of misunderstanding.
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  We we know that it's it can be quite complex to understand
• 19:52
  because one autistic person is 1 autistic person and.
• 19:55
  Exactly. You know, the uniqueness is so
• 19:59
  evident that you know, my daughter, for example, she has a
• 20:03
  speech and language delay. And I think if you don't know
• 20:08
  much about it, you think that autistic people and children
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  don't just are on are non verbal or they all have a learning
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  disability. Or so there's still a lot of
• 20:19
  work to do in terms of, of informing.
• 20:22
  And I wish also that there was more curiosity from from people
• 20:28
  to, to learn more about it. And I feel like employers when
• 20:33
  recruiting should actually be asking these questions because
• 20:37
  if we make these more, I'm going to say normal, even though I
• 20:42
  don't really like this world. But if if we normalize it, if we
• 20:45
  make it part of of a standard process of interviewing to ask,
• 20:49
  do you need any reasonable adjustments?
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  People will feel more comfortable as well disclosing
• 20:57
  they need anything regardless of being neurodivergent or having
• 21:02
  another type of another type of disability, learning disability
• 21:07
  or physical disability. So yeah, it's about giving equal
• 21:11
  opportunities to to everyone. Definitely.
• 21:16
  Yeah. OK, So in what ways?
• 21:26
  No, before this one. Sorry I got a bit lost when you
• 21:31
  were younger. So was filmmaking always your
• 21:35
  dream? Or, you know, did your creative
• 21:37
  journey just took unexpected turns along the way?
• 21:42
  So when did you find out that you had this creativity within
• 21:45
  within yourself? Film making's been a dream for
• 21:49
  me for a long time. I can remember, though, when I
• 21:52
  was about 9 or 10, I was trying to work out what I wanted to do.
• 21:58
  Part of me one felt about writing.
• 22:00
  Part of me liked the storytelling creating aspect of
• 22:03
  the video games that I played. But it was only when I got to
• 22:08
  the end of secondary school that I decided sort of film making
• 22:13
  because I'd also, I toyed around with the idea of maybe acting or
• 22:17
  a root of comedy or something. But I'd thought it just
• 22:21
  culminated in the idea of maybe being behind the camera, maybe
• 22:25
  writing and or directing films. And as a result, I just went on
• 22:31
  this deep dive and it just became this incredible passion
• 22:35
  of mine. So the sort of films that I've
• 22:39
  watched over the many years. And I think the unexpected turn
• 22:44
  in my creative journey has come from writing what I know.
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  So the irony is not lost on me. The fact that by writing about
• 22:54
  my shared, by sharing writing about and sharing my lived
• 22:57
  experiences, I have progressed a lot more than I thought I'd ever
• 23:01
  did. I ever did.
• 23:03
  The fact that I opened up and I created these documentaries
• 23:07
  about myself and then there was snapshot the.
• 23:11
  There have been more and more opportunities presented to me as
• 23:16
  a result. And it's one thing I'm
• 23:20
  incredibly grateful for. But also, again, there is that
• 23:24
  irony, the fact that I have to write and detail my struggles
• 23:28
  that I've had, especially with unemployment in order to
• 23:31
  progress. But I think that's where the
• 23:33
  most unexpected turn in my creative journey has been, is
• 23:39
  going down that path. Because I've I've always wanted
• 23:41
  to explore different genres and different kinds of stories.
• 23:45
  But I think for the time being, I'm quite happy.
• 23:50
  And I'm very happy the fact that because there's that sense of
• 23:54
  vulnerability, because they're very personal stories.
• 23:57
  And but the fact that when you're reciprocated with nothing
• 24:01
  but gratitude and love and support, it means the world to
• 24:05
  me. The fact that I have taken these
• 24:08
  very deeply personal stories and I've shared them and people are
• 24:12
  relating to them. And as the result, it's just,
• 24:16
  yeah, my creative journey. It's just continuing onwards.
• 24:20
  Yeah, that's, that's fantastic. It's, it's a beautiful journey
• 24:24
  you, you have there. And actually if, if people want
• 24:27
  to watch snapshots and Asperger's, what of it?
• 24:33
  Where can they find it? So on YouTube, if you, I have it
• 24:39
  on my YouTube channel, which is JCLXIV and there should be
• 24:45
  Asperger's and what of it? It's also on the National
• 24:48
  Autistic Society's YouTube channel.
• 24:50
  But I think you'd have to go a bit of a deep, a bit of a dive
• 24:53
  for that one. And Snapshot is currently on the
• 24:58
  the film YouTube channel on Leto OMELETO and it's it's there at
• 25:04
  the moment. And yeah, it's just, I'm sure
• 25:09
  I'm just hoping that the more people that watch, I'm hoping
• 25:14
  they identify and and enjoy these stories.
• 25:18
  Yes, definitely I'll I'll add the links to the episode anyway
• 25:22
  so that the audience can can access it access both of them
• 25:27
  easily anyway. And I'm, I'm quite curious as
• 25:31
  well. So creative arts, sadly, or at
• 25:38
  least that's my understanding, but they, they don't give you a,
• 25:43
  a financial security because it's, it's an area where it can
• 25:49
  be difficult. You know, for some months you
• 25:50
  can have lots of work to do, but then other months you might not.
• 25:54
  So I'm curious to know if you are currently unemployed and if
• 25:57
  you were able to overcome or if if any employer actually made
• 26:03
  those reasonable adjustments for you and if you managed to to
• 26:06
  find a job eventually. So at the minute, something
• 26:12
  which I'll come on to later, I do do part time work for
• 26:17
  advocacy and Oliver McGowan training, but that's sort of
• 26:20
  like a couple of hours here and there.
• 26:23
  It's it's not substantial. And yeah, like you rightfully
• 26:27
  said, with freelance work, it's, it can be incredibly thick or so
• 26:31
  you'll have months and months of nothing and then you'll have
• 26:35
  sort of, this isn't very much like the buses, just everything,
• 26:39
  all these opportunities to present themselves at once.
• 26:42
  But I'm sure it would be, it would be a dream really.
• 26:45
  It'd be ideal to have that offer of substantial full time work,
• 26:51
  something you know, especially more financially substantial and
• 26:55
  more fulfilling in particular, because that's often the trouble
• 27:01
  at the moment. I've not only got to support
• 27:03
  myself, but there's also my wife and our daughter and in tow.
• 27:07
  And it's trying to be mindful of that because I never, it was
• 27:11
  never my intention to graduate from university and then have to
• 27:15
  go on to benefits. That was never the plan.
• 27:18
  It was just something that happened.
• 27:20
  I remember at the end of university I started to panic
• 27:23
  because I thought I've got nothing at the end of this and
• 27:27
  and if there was an initial reassurance, oh you'll be fine,
• 27:30
  you'll be all right. But no, I remember receiving my
• 27:33
  degree in July and by the October I was at the job centre,
• 27:37
  so I'm fully aware of the struggles.
• 27:41
  I'm always my ears firmly pressed to the ground with their
• 27:44
  developments and news all the time about what's happening.
• 27:49
  And again, never the intention. I've always wanted to have that
• 27:53
  because it's, it's more, it's more fulfilling.
• 27:56
  And the fact that I've had the struggle with all these jobs
• 27:59
  that I've applied to over and over and over, you get caught in
• 28:02
  the cycles and it's just frustrating and and feels quite
• 28:05
  degrading at times. Yeah, and even now the
• 28:09
  government is making cuts on, on benefits for disabled people
• 28:15
  and, and people who are neuro divergent.
• 28:17
  So I'm, I'm really sorry to hear that from your side that that's
• 28:25
  the case. And it really saddens me to, to
• 28:28
  know that this is the case across the country for, for many
• 28:32
  other people that there's definitely more that, that we
• 28:37
  can do. Not we.
• 28:39
  But while talking about it and putting it out there already,
• 28:42
  hopefully is making a difference.
• 28:46
  But yeah, it it shouldn't be this way.
• 28:49
  And when when you think about other than your film making,
• 28:53
  which is your passion and you know what you do for, for love,
• 28:58
  what other what, what other job would you see yourself doing?
• 29:04
  Because I also feel like it would be very difficult for you
• 29:08
  to be in a typical office environment, for example, or
• 29:14
  what would you see yourself doing that's not film making?
• 29:19
  I think part of me would love to expand on the advocacy work that
• 29:25
  I'm doing at the minute, you know, because that's just
• 29:28
  something that's here and there. You know, I think, I think it's
• 29:32
  banding into that because I have a lot of feel to offer in that
• 29:37
  field in particular. Yeah, so we need more advocacy
• 29:45
  roles across the country. So hopefully, yes, that that
• 29:52
  will happen at some point soon. And now another film.
• 30:00
  So you're now working on I'm. I'm not sure if I'm going to
• 30:04
  pronounce it correctly. Is it idol Idol.
• 30:07
  Yeah, Idol, idol, which sounds incredible.
• 30:14
  Can you tell us more about the the themes it's going to to
• 30:18
  explore and why it was important for you to challenge society
• 30:23
  binaries? So when I moved to Peterborough
• 30:28
  3 1/2 years ago, I was trying to network and connect and I
• 30:33
  connected with metal arts culture there.
• 30:36
  And they had they had a residency that I wished to earn
• 30:40
  this like to apply for. And I was just constantly seeing
• 30:45
  on the news this the mainstream narrative, as you said, the the
• 30:49
  social binaries, this dichotomy that either disabled people are
• 30:54
  perceived as lazy scroungers on benefits or contrastingly
• 30:58
  Paralympic superheroes with unrealistic expectations.
• 31:03
  So I coined the term idle and the way I spell it is IDOLE
• 31:07
  because it's a play on the words idol as in lazy and idol as in
• 31:11
  idolizing. And of course that and that's
• 31:15
  why there's also a cross through the O.
• 31:18
  So the eventual aim would be it would be an anthology of three
• 31:22
  short films and it would be informed by the research and
• 31:25
  development that I undertook during the residency.
• 31:29
  So we they helped me organize a call out and I spoke to a good
• 31:34
  dozens of different people, walks of life within various
• 31:38
  death, disabled and neurodivergent communities.
• 31:41
  And they would share their lived experiences with me because I
• 31:48
  just I felt as well that it's very important to challenge
• 31:52
  these binaries because of the knock on effect of it's held on
• 31:55
  media portrayals. I mean, years and years ago you
• 31:59
  had Rain Man, which still there are some people that will refer
• 32:04
  to it now, which, you know, I mean, back then is savant
• 32:07
  syndrome, which is completely different.
• 32:10
  Cut the fish. But then you also have
• 32:13
  documentaries and it's many, many imitators afterwards such
• 32:17
  as Benefit St. And so you've got all of these,
• 32:21
  all of these presumptions, all of these microaggressions and
• 32:24
  SNAP judgements that we almost deliberately just got on
• 32:30
  benefits and we don't want to do work when that's not the case.
• 32:33
  There's, there's literally nothing else for us.
• 32:36
  So it's either this, it's either that or out on the streets,
• 32:40
  there's not really any choice. And this is the other thing,
• 32:43
  especially with the pip cuts as well that people don't
• 32:48
  understand. They think, oh, you're getting,
• 32:50
  you're getting an extra bit of a bit of a side earning here, but
• 32:54
  people don't realise that that money is actually going on
• 32:58
  helping us thrive and just just function on a day-to-day basis.
• 33:02
  And this is what they fail to understand that we need that
• 33:05
  money just to be able to get to places and be able to do things
• 33:10
  as well, you know, because there's nothing else.
• 33:12
  There's no other support. And it's also challenging how
• 33:16
  we're we're human like everyone else.
• 33:19
  We're three-dimensional when we're not.
• 33:21
  These cardboard cutouts, them can be placed in yes or no tick
• 33:24
  boxes. We're, we're people you know,
• 33:27
  and especially when it comes to diagnosis, especially when it
• 33:31
  comes to the medical field with neurodivergence in particular,
• 33:36
  it isn't a case of yes and no. It's a case of assessing the
• 33:39
  person socially as opposed to, you know, where, where do you
• 33:44
  score on where do you score on the chart really?
• 33:47
  And that's what I'm aiming with, with idle as well, is not only
• 33:52
  focusing on neurodivergence, but also chronic illnesses, a lot of
• 33:56
  hidden disabilities that we can't see.
• 33:59
  So my wife has fibromyalgia. It's something she's struggled
• 34:03
  with for the best part of nine years.
• 34:06
  And the frustration that she's had with previous GPS that other
• 34:12
  presumptions are made, You know, especially, especially when you
• 34:16
  get the impression there's an incredibly sort of sexist
• 34:20
  approach when it comes to GPS, women in particular.
• 34:23
  So when she just goes and she's trying to share a genuine
• 34:26
  problem, a genuine ailment, and has been previously dismissed
• 34:30
  with the, oh, it's because you're a woman.
• 34:32
  Oh, it's because of your hormones.
• 34:33
  Oh, it's because of this. And it's absolutely disgusting
• 34:36
  that that all of this diagnostic overshadowing, especially with
• 34:40
  neurodivergence as well, when you've got people, you've got, I
• 34:43
  mean, my experience have gone through particular things in the
• 34:47
  past and it's just been dismissed as, oh, that's just
• 34:49
  your autism. Oh, it's just, and you're not
• 34:51
  looking at the problem properly. So you've got all of these
• 34:54
  people struggling and get caught on all of these poverty and
• 34:57
  medical cycles. You know, they're trying to
• 35:00
  they're trying to get by and they're struggling because
• 35:04
  they're not being seen or listened to properly.
• 35:06
  And that's what I was wanting to focus with these free films.
• 35:11
  But at the minute, where it is, it's is the case of funding.
• 35:17
  That's the way on stage I'm at. I'm hoping in the foreseeable
• 35:21
  that I'm able to crowdfund it. That's the only route I can see
• 35:25
  this taking. And if I can get that support
• 35:28
  and backing, then it would mean the world to me that I'm able to
• 35:31
  share these other people's lived experiences and for people to
• 35:34
  set up and think and realise we're not all Azis branches and
• 35:38
  benefits and we're not all of these people with these
• 35:41
  yardsticks set. Because there's a phrase in
• 35:45
  particular that I remember encountering, which I, I quite
• 35:48
  love, where someone had wrote. I don't like the phrase.
• 35:53
  If they can do it, what Like, if I can do it, why can't you?
• 35:56
  I prefer the phrase. I can't believe I did that
• 36:01
  because it is, especially with chronic illnesses and yeah, and
• 36:04
  newer divergent as well. People don't either behind the
• 36:08
  scenes. There are times when it can take
• 36:11
  my wife a long time to sort herself out, to get up, to get
• 36:15
  ready for going out somewhere. You know, if especially those
• 36:19
  with chronic illnesses, they use an analogy of spoons or energy
• 36:24
  pennies and that and it's, and it's having to spread yourself
• 36:28
  across the day. And this is what people failed
• 36:30
  to see because they just think, oh, they're up and about,
• 36:32
  They're fine. They don't see the internal
• 36:34
  struggle and that's something that I'm wanting to continually
• 36:38
  challenge at the moment. Yeah, it's very easy to judge
• 36:43
  when you're not when you're not going through it and have no, no
• 36:48
  visibility of of how you know how things can can be a
• 36:55
  challenge on on a with simple things that that you have on
• 37:00
  your on your daily basis, like getting out of bed, you know,
• 37:05
  brushing your teeth, everything. So yeah, I'm very excited.
• 37:09
  I really hope that you managed to get the the funding.
• 37:13
  And yeah, if I can, if we can help sharing the link for
• 37:19
  crowdfunding more than happy to, to support with that and also
• 37:22
  happy to to the night because that's, that sounds very, very
• 37:26
  exciting. So you mentioned already the
• 37:30
  kind of impact that you you hope to, to have with idle, but are
• 37:37
  you hoping to have to create an impact also within the industry,
• 37:41
  not just with, with the the neuro divergent or or disability
• 37:46
  audience? Hopefully I think so.
• 37:51
  If people within the industry see these stories, then I
• 37:56
  suppose it might actively encourage them to refine the
• 38:01
  work approach. I know that they already have
• 38:04
  access coordination coordinators as well as well-being
• 38:07
  coordinators as well. I think it's, I think it's just
• 38:12
  continuing that, that more positive route because it's,
• 38:17
  it's making those reasonable adjustments again so that you
• 38:21
  don't have people that were desperate, disabled,
• 38:24
  neurodivergent, as well as those chronic illnesses and hidden
• 38:28
  disabilities not being able to thrive, almost being pushed out.
• 38:33
  And I'm hoping that by giving them that, that chance that and,
• 38:40
  you know, bringing that further equity into the industry.
• 38:45
  And I'm just, I'm hoping and if my films contribute towards
• 38:49
  that, then you'll be better for it.
• 38:52
  Yeah, definitely. And how, how do you ensure
• 38:57
  representation of deaf, disabled and neurodivergent communities
• 39:01
  in in your work? I think we kind of covered it,
• 39:03
  but is there anything you would like to add more specifically?
• 39:08
  It's just having the stories guided by the one or a
• 39:11
  collection of the lived experiences, which is what I've
• 39:13
  been doing, you know, rather than half baked research, you
• 39:18
  know, a quick Google or Wikipedia glance, which it can
• 39:22
  often come across that way in certain in certain films or
• 39:25
  programs that you watch. So with the short film Snapshot,
• 39:29
  the lead actor Josh, who's like he was, he was absolutely
• 39:32
  brilliant. He's autistic.
• 39:34
  And so he was one of 13 newer Divergent actors that were
• 39:38
  interviewed for it. And this was during lockdown.
• 39:40
  So we had to do this all via Zoom and self tapes.
• 39:43
  And I can remember he said that how he strongly identified, he
• 39:47
  said, this is this is my life. This is the sort of thing I'm
• 39:49
  going through. So when we actually came to
• 39:52
  workshop in it on the Zoom and then when we managed to film it
• 39:56
  in 2021, we would workshop the parts and we'd think, OK, how,
• 40:02
  how would you deal with the situation?
• 40:04
  How would you do this? How, how would you feel about
• 40:07
  that? And it definitely helped he when
• 40:11
  he spoke about it before. Which were on set as well as in
• 40:17
  other interviews that him and I have done together.
• 40:20
  He threw, he said about how he threw so much of himself into
• 40:23
  it. He tapped a lot of his
• 40:25
  vulnerabilities into the role as well.
• 40:28
  And I'm sure when you were watching it, I'm hoping that
• 40:32
  that's what comes across as well is because of how he relates to
• 40:38
  a lot the frustration of not being able to get his point
• 40:41
  across. And yeah, it's just, I think
• 40:45
  that's the that's the key thing is making sure that you've got
• 40:49
  that lived experience in forming the story and, and, and for it
• 40:54
  to be sort of the, you know, person centred and, and more
• 40:58
  heartfelt in particular. Yeah, it's keeping the the the
• 41:04
  authentic. I never know how to say this
• 41:05
  word authentic, authentic. That's that's easy.
• 41:10
  That's OK. Yeah, that's all right.
• 41:13
  Yeah. And that's how it comes across.
• 41:15
  It really feels like, you know, he had, when I watched it, that
• 41:20
  he had actually gone through all of that.
• 41:23
  And I think that makes it distinct from, you know, any
• 41:27
  other media representations that that you see, that you you feel
• 41:30
  it's more staged and because the person might not have gone
• 41:35
  through that. So, yeah, well done again for
• 41:39
  that. And has your identity ever been
• 41:42
  misunderstood or boxed in by the industry, and how do you
• 41:47
  navigate that? So the moment because of my area
• 41:52
  of focus, I do get a feeling that I might be pigeon holing
• 41:56
  myself, but I am hoping to change that once I've said my
• 42:01
  pieces. As I've said before, the current
• 42:03
  work at the minute is very much a this is me.
• 42:06
  This is who I am and who these people are and the world and the
• 42:10
  people that we currently navigate through.
• 42:13
  You know, I'd all would love to branch out to different genres
• 42:16
  one day. And I think with being
• 42:21
  misunderstood, I've often unintentionally rubbed people
• 42:26
  out the wrong way. I know as well that there's this
• 42:31
  driving push for more working in class writers, directors, film
• 42:37
  makers and creatives, which I myself am working class.
• 42:41
  But because of how I write and how I and how I speak, sometimes
• 42:47
  I get the impression that people think I'm pretending, which I'm
• 42:49
  not. Why would I pretend?
• 42:51
  And, and that's actually been a genuine problem.
• 42:54
  There have been some people out there who are middle and upper
• 42:58
  class and pretend to be working class, which I think is quite
• 43:00
  obscene. And, and that's the thing, it's,
• 43:05
  I think it's, it goes back to the whole thing about being on
• 43:09
  benefits and that financial entitlement.
• 43:11
  There's been an often misconception that disabled
• 43:14
  people are rich, which, you know, we're not.
• 43:17
  We, we have the money there to help and support it.
• 43:20
  And a lot of the time it's just barely breaking even.
• 43:24
  And all of that is just helping us get by.
• 43:27
  So I tend to find at times that I have two barriers because
• 43:31
  yeah, I've, I've always been working class the way I've been
• 43:35
  brought up and everything like that from from when I was
• 43:38
  younger. And yeah, I think that's where I
• 43:43
  have my current struggles and barriers at the moment, and it's
• 43:48
  just hoping to strive for more equity within both fields, to be
• 43:54
  honest. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's really, I
• 44:00
  don't get it's this pretending, people thinking that you are
• 44:03
  pretending when you know, you kind of recognized already that
• 44:07
  you've must for most of your life and and you know, just you
• 44:11
  being yourself, the fact that you speak in a certain way
• 44:13
  doesn't mean that you are pretending.
• 44:17
  Again, it goes back to the misunderstanding of of all of
• 44:23
  this. And hopefully one one day that
• 44:25
  will that will change. So you mentioned you deliver
• 44:29
  Oliver McGowan training. Can you share what that involves
• 44:34
  and why it's so important, such an important piece of the puzzle
• 44:38
  when striving for disability equity?
• 44:42
  So through my research and development with IDLE, I was
• 44:46
  signposted to this line of work and when I applied for so I knew
• 44:52
  the story of Oliver McGowan. So I'll, I'll do a quick run
• 44:56
  through of it. It's an incredibly tragic story.
• 44:59
  So Oliver McGowan was this amazing young man and his life
• 45:03
  was cut short through poor practice of medical neglect.
• 45:07
  So he had epilepsy and he was in and out of hospital with
• 45:10
  seizures and the way his staff would ignore his hospital
• 45:15
  passport and they would neglect him and they would continuously
• 45:18
  put him on this antipsychotic medication that it was
• 45:21
  incredibly sensitive to and tragically led to his death.
• 45:25
  And his mother Paula is an incredibly tenacious woman.
• 45:28
  She's campaigned for years to put forward this mandatory
• 45:32
  training, this Oliver McGowan training to be taught among NHS
• 45:35
  carers, doctors, nurses. And the way it works is it's 2
• 45:42
  tiers. So you have tier one which is
• 45:45
  training done over webinar and computers and teams meetings.
• 45:48
  And Tier 2 is in person where we stand and speak.
• 45:52
  And so we we work in teams of three.
• 45:54
  There's myself who is a Co trainer with lived experience of
• 45:57
  autism. I also have a Co.
• 45:59
  There's also a Co trainer with lived experience with a learning
• 46:02
  disability. And then there's the facilitator
• 46:05
  and we developed the script, we've delivered the script, but
• 46:08
  in between we're also chiming in our own personal lived
• 46:11
  experiences because it gives that additional personal human
• 46:15
  touch. And a lot of people actually
• 46:17
  that come away from it find it more enriching, more
• 46:20
  enlightening than just reading through the e-learning or the
• 46:25
  textbook. The fact that they could come
• 46:26
  away and they've got genuine examples of these people like
• 46:30
  myself who've stood up and spoke about our lived experiences.
• 46:34
  And the main aim is to make sure that stories like Oliver's don't
• 46:38
  happen again, that autistic people and people learning
• 46:41
  disabilities are listened to. You know, the, the, the common
• 46:45
  mantra that is often pushed for out is asked listen and do.
• 46:50
  And that's making sure that doctors, nurses and whoever does
• 46:53
  that. And honestly, when I first came
• 46:58
  across this job and I went for the interview, it was probably
• 47:01
  one of the best interviews that I ever had.
• 47:04
  I got there, there were reasonable adjustments made
• 47:06
  regarding the lights. And I just, I just spoke about a
• 47:10
  lot of things that I've spoke about with you.
• 47:12
  I actually shared my film with them, which they thought was
• 47:15
  incredibly powerful and they loved it.
• 47:17
  And as a result, I've been doing this part time right for over a
• 47:21
  year now. And I find it very rewarding,
• 47:25
  especially when we're getting Oliver's story across and Iron
• 47:30
  Iron and as well as the other Co trainer, we're sharing our lived
• 47:33
  experiences and hopefully making people understand that it's more
• 47:37
  a social model rather than a medical model that the person is
• 47:41
  seeing, the person's just seen that it's holistic.
• 47:45
  And it's, it's just something that I've really enjoyed doing.
• 47:53
  And I'm hoping helps strive towards disability equity.
• 47:57
  Because if we can get more doctors and nurses, and
• 48:01
  potentially if this training gets rolled out into schools and
• 48:04
  prisons as well, the fact that we can have that additional
• 48:07
  understanding, awareness and acceptance, it will just make
• 48:10
  life, especially within that field, a lot easier.
• 48:14
  I think as previously spoke about diagnostic overshadowing
• 48:18
  as well, which is, is quite a problem.
• 48:21
  And, but by having this training put in place, doctors can then
• 48:25
  see like if, if their autism is either on the medical record or
• 48:30
  they, they, they declare it. And you know, because there's
• 48:33
  this whole talk about, you know, you don't have to have a formal
• 48:37
  diagnosis. If you know your own mind,
• 48:39
  you'll know if you're neurodivergent and that's
• 48:42
  absolutely fine. And it's making sure that it's
• 48:45
  not the be all and end all in the spotlight, but also not
• 48:49
  pushed aside to the background. That is something that is OK.
• 48:52
  I know this is here. And if they can see that the
• 48:55
  person is struggling either with lights or noises, then they can
• 48:59
  make reasonable adjustments. They can have ear defenders or
• 49:02
  if someone's getting fidgety, they might if they've got a box
• 49:05
  of century toys. And it's all those little things
• 49:07
  that can just make a huge difference that this person is
• 49:11
  able to open up to their doctors and just say what what's wrong
• 49:15
  or you know what, what the ailment is, what the, what the
• 49:18
  issue or problem is. And then hopefully the doctor
• 49:21
  will be able to signpost them towards sorting it.
• 49:25
  Yeah, yeah. That's, that's the, the ideal
• 49:28
  world that we are all aiming for.
• 49:32
  And it's great to see this kind of training taking place as
• 49:37
  well, especially in in the medical world, because you would
• 49:43
  expect that they would be the ones who are more informed and
• 49:47
  would be able to to support you. And sadly, that's, that's not
• 49:52
  the case. And we have Oliver's story kind
• 49:56
  of proving that. So yeah, very grateful from on
• 50:02
  on behalf of of the community that you are delivering this and
• 50:07
  and it's a job that you're passionate about.
• 50:11
  So what are the biggest misconceptions that you
• 50:14
  encounter around autism, especially in professional
• 50:18
  environments like film or or training?
• 50:22
  The I think that we all like the same things to behave in exactly
• 50:27
  the same way that we I mean, yes, we share traits, but a good
• 50:33
  analogy that often you use in Oliver McGowan that can be
• 50:36
  applied everywhere. So before used to have the
• 50:40
  spectrum which was just the line and it was often the now
• 50:43
  outdated terms, high functioning and low functioning.
• 50:46
  But a better term now is the spiky profile which is a
• 50:49
  circular spectrum. And and again, it's all
• 50:52
  environmentally dependent really.
• 50:57
  So within professional environments, it's all the, IT
• 51:03
  all fluctuate and everything happens day-to-day.
• 51:08
  And so with the reasonable adjustments, I'll give you an
• 51:11
  example with snapshot. So we filmed it over 5 days, but
• 51:15
  we ensured that in each location we filmed in, there was a
• 51:20
  breakout room in case things got too much.
• 51:23
  And so it was always there. So in case any of us got
• 51:27
  overwhelmed or anything, we could just go there, just have a
• 51:30
  lie down, have a breather because and I think you know
• 51:36
  with them the misconception because just because on the
• 51:40
  outside we are presenting fine, we're doing OK.
• 51:45
  It's a completely different story on the inside, especially
• 51:48
  if it's a particularly bad day. And I think having the option
• 51:54
  to, you know, having the option of having those reasonable
• 51:58
  adjustments, having that more comfortable and accepting
• 52:01
  environment might help new intervention people open up more
• 52:06
  in particular. But I mean more misconceptions.
• 52:11
  Let's say if meltdowns do happen, a lot of people I've
• 52:16
  known still think meltdowns are very similar, similar to a
• 52:21
  tantrum that a child has, which is completely, it's not the
• 52:24
  case. Tantrums are a form of gaining
• 52:27
  attention where a meltdown is everything's reached breaking
• 52:30
  point and this is too much. I need to leave.
• 52:33
  I don't know how to articulate this because my brain is so
• 52:36
  overloaded. And then you have, you know,
• 52:38
  you've got the internal of a shutdown where you just withdraw
• 52:40
  and everything closes off. Just the brain needs to reset
• 52:43
  and you need to decompress. And going back on saying about
• 52:47
  reasonable adjustments, especially within professional
• 52:50
  environment, again, you get the impression that people think
• 52:54
  you're a bit of a diva when all you're doing is just asking for
• 52:58
  things here and there. You know, is there a room where
• 53:00
  I can go and sit for a minute? Is there somewhere with more
• 53:03
  dimmer lights? Because these lights are very
• 53:04
  overpowering. Is there?
• 53:06
  And that's all we're asking for really.
• 53:09
  And the fact that when people think that we're all incredibly
• 53:13
  talented and that we all, we all have a like a special talent OR,
• 53:17
  or all this that and the other is not the case either that
• 53:20
  we're these the savants, you know, But I mean with me and my
• 53:25
  film making and a lot of people think, oh, you know, it's a
• 53:28
  special interest in that. And yes, it is.
• 53:30
  But there are times where I can personally switch off from that
• 53:34
  and I can switch off from my disability advocacy as well.
• 53:38
  It's not the be all and end all. I've I've got life outside all
• 53:41
  this. It's just, I think the the only
• 53:44
  way to describe it, especially when when Neo divergent people
• 53:49
  have those particular passions and hobbies that they lean into,
• 53:53
  I think it's just something that you you always drawn back into
• 53:57
  it. So I'll tend to if I'm not right
• 54:00
  in, I'm watching various different things all the time
• 54:03
  and I'm always sitting there and I'm always taking note about how
• 54:07
  scenes start and finish, how it drives towards the next part.
• 54:11
  And that's all going on internally.
• 54:13
  And that feeds that sort of passion of mine with the
• 54:15
  advocacy. I'll often keep my head to the
• 54:17
  ground in terms of news with the current pit cuts as well.
• 54:23
  But I mean, there, there comes a point where you risk burning
• 54:27
  yourself out, especially if you're, if you're driving.
• 54:31
  If I'm driving myself into this passion for too long and you
• 54:34
  weigh yourself out, especially when there have been times when
• 54:37
  I've been applying for application forms and similar
• 54:40
  and there have been rejections, it can feel very downheartening
• 54:44
  and you feel like you just want to distance yourself from it all
• 54:48
  completely. But I mean, when I was
• 54:50
  mentioning creative slumps earlier, that's basically is
• 54:55
  what's happened. I'd, I'd create all of this
• 54:56
  work, I'd made these documentaries and I thought,
• 54:59
  well, I'm done with that. Now I'm just going to
• 55:01
  concentrate on being a dad and being, you know, looking after
• 55:05
  my wife and all that. And then only then as as as
• 55:08
  always, as is unexpected. Then you get people sort of
• 55:12
  approaching you. I mean, the opportunity for
• 55:14
  Snapshot came on the back of the short documentary that was
• 55:18
  screened at the National Artistic Society Film Festival.
• 55:22
  I got approached about that and it always happens when you least
• 55:25
  expect it as well. Yeah, absolutely.
• 55:28
  I have many instances as well of of the same situation, yeah, of
• 55:36
  saying, OK, that's, that's enough.
• 55:38
  And then suddenly things happen when when you least expect them.
• 55:44
  Always. Yeah, I always like that.
• 55:48
  So as someone with lived experience, how do you balance
• 55:52
  telling your truth with the pressure to represent a whole
• 55:56
  community? I don't feel much pressure in
• 56:01
  representation that I do this work to share lived experiences
• 56:05
  and to inspire others to do the same.
• 56:09
  I think my pressure mainly comes to ensure that the authenticity
• 56:14
  and honesty comes across more than anything.
• 56:16
  That was my main thing, especially with Snapshot was
• 56:19
  making sure. So we actually, when we first
• 56:22
  started developing it and we were granted funding for it via
• 56:24
  BFI, I contacted the National Autistic Society and asked for a
• 56:29
  few pointers. So in the opening you have his
• 56:31
  support worker try and calm him down and he offers and she
• 56:35
  offers a stress ball and the hand movement that she makes.
• 56:39
  That was through a consultation through National Autistic
• 56:41
  Society, because I asked them if you have someone in care,
• 56:46
  autistic person who's having a meltdown, the arms everywhere,
• 56:49
  the frustration, everything is too much.
• 56:51
  What how would you, how would you try to defuse the situation?
• 56:54
  And that was one of sort of many techniques suggested because you
• 56:58
  want to get it right. There's been.
• 57:00
  So there's a film from a few years back from the musician Sia
• 57:06
  called Music, which I remember got a lot of scrutiny and a lot
• 57:09
  of backlash from its autistic representation in particular.
• 57:14
  And I saw there's the use of unnecessary restraint, which if
• 57:19
  he was to actually sort of use on autistic people, it's just,
• 57:23
  it's horrible. It's just like it's and it also
• 57:26
  reminds me as well of what happened to poor Oliver as well.
• 57:30
  He was restrained in an in an inappropriate way when all he
• 57:34
  was doing, he was stemming, he was trying to, he was trying to
• 57:37
  vocalize, he was trying to verbalize his concerns
• 57:41
  basically. And he was stimming.
• 57:42
  All he wanted to do was while he was waiting for another
• 57:44
  consultation, he got out of his bed and he wanted to pace, but
• 57:48
  they were saying, no, you can't pace.
• 57:49
  You've got to get back into bed. And as a result, he would fight
• 57:51
  and they felt always putting up a fight.
• 57:53
  Do you see what I mean? So it's it's ensuring that
• 57:59
  authenticity is there. So in Snapshot she is there.
• 58:03
  The character of Janet has helped in trying to fuse the
• 58:06
  situation when it's too much and it's getting those parts right.
• 58:10
  And it's making sure that that sensory overloads and that
• 58:14
  obviously a lot of it comes from my lived experience, but it's
• 58:17
  making sure that, you know, just because it my lived experience,
• 58:21
  I'm hoping that others relate and have similar as well.
• 58:26
  And that's quite important to me with this line of work in
• 58:30
  particular. Yeah, but it doesn't mean that
• 58:34
  everyone will will see you as as this model for how autism
• 58:41
  displays in in everyone. And again, it's very important
• 58:44
  to to highlight that one autistic person is 1 autistic
• 58:48
  person. I think it's kind of common
• 58:52
  sense, right? Because even if we don't think
• 58:55
  about neuro divergent versus neurotypical, we, we are all
• 59:02
  unique, we all have our DNA, we are all different beings.
• 59:07
  And this is what makes the world in, in, in, in my experience,
• 59:11
  It's what makes the world a better place and it's what makes
• 59:14
  us better persons as well. I you know, the fact that I
• 59:20
  moved to, to the UK and I'm in Oxford, which is a multicultural
• 59:26
  city. I feel like it shaped me so much
• 59:32
  having expanded my horizons and meeting so many different people
• 59:35
  from different cultures. And, and again, we're not even
• 59:38
  talking about adding neuro divergent to to the mix then,
• 59:42
  but it's about each of us being being unique and, and bringing
• 59:46
  our unique talents and and values in in into the world.
• 59:51
  That's, that's how you know that that's that's why I use loads of
• 59:56
  colours, for example, with, with a podcast, because I really like
• 1:00:02
  the rainbow and, and all of these colours because it's, it's
• 1:00:05
  yeah, to me, it's like it's just beautiful.
• 1:00:09
  And that's how I, I, I perceive or I idealise the world to, to
• 1:00:14
  be at some point. So, yeah, thank you for sharing.
• 1:00:20
  And now let's talk about you being a dad and.
• 1:00:24
  And how that has shaped or shifted your perspective as a
• 1:00:27
  film maker and an advocate. I think it's kept me grounded,
• 1:00:33
  really. I never expected to become a
• 1:00:37
  dad, to be honest, but the paternal instinct seemed to just
• 1:00:42
  come naturally to me. I, I grew up around for siblings
• 1:00:46
  of my own and yeah, just, a lot of it was just using how my mum
• 1:00:55
  brought me up with my daughter. And I think within my work, it's
• 1:00:59
  just a sense of trying to represent a degree of honesty
• 1:01:04
  and integrity and just hoping that it's something that my
• 1:01:10
  daughter can aspire to in terms of whatever she wants to do with
• 1:01:13
  her life as she grows up. Yeah.
• 1:01:16
  And what, what do you learn from her?
• 1:01:18
  And how what you learn from her influences how you you you move
• 1:01:22
  through the world. Keeping that creativity and
• 1:01:27
  imagination alive is often lost, you know, to the weight of
• 1:01:32
  modernity and adulthood in general.
• 1:01:34
  As you grow up, you you because you've got other
• 1:01:36
  responsibilities, all of that just gets put on the back
• 1:01:39
  burner. So it's having that additional
• 1:01:42
  balance of seeing in the world with that childlike wonder of
• 1:01:46
  imagination, but also balancing it out with the pragmatism as
• 1:01:50
  well. So it's, I always find it
• 1:01:52
  fascinating. She, she's incredibly creative.
• 1:01:55
  She, she loves Minecraft, She's always making things, she's
• 1:01:59
  always drawing, she's always building things with Lego and it
• 1:02:05
  they're definitely things that we both try and nurture and we
• 1:02:09
  just feed into her interests really.
• 1:02:11
  And. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, that's very
• 1:02:15
  true. I when I was younger, my
• 1:02:19
  creative side is still here because we also tend to think
• 1:02:23
  about creativity in, in the sense of, you know, arts and,
• 1:02:27
  and drawing and, and writing. But I used to write a lot.
• 1:02:31
  And then with, with, with time, I just lost it because, yeah,
• 1:02:36
  you just become busy being an adult and it feels like you have
• 1:02:41
  no time for for anything. So it's really great to see
• 1:02:45
  that, you know, you feed onto her creativity.
• 1:02:48
  But that makes total sense coming from you.
• 1:02:52
  And what's one thing you wish more people understood about
• 1:02:55
  being artistic and being creative?
• 1:02:59
  That we might express, excuse me, that we might express ideas
• 1:03:05
  in different ways. So each approach from each
• 1:03:08
  individual's different and if any issues occur, providing
• 1:03:14
  rational and reasonable explanations for any
• 1:03:17
  compromises. So I think I can't remember when
• 1:03:21
  I saw it, but I remember watching a video about someone,
• 1:03:25
  an autistic person in the workplace and their boss was
• 1:03:29
  getting frustrated that them because they were asking them to
• 1:03:31
  do something in a certain way or they were asking them about,
• 1:03:34
  they were informing them of a certain change in a certain way.
• 1:03:38
  And all the autistic person was asking was why.
• 1:03:41
  And the boss was getting more and more frustrated.
• 1:03:43
  It was just a story they relayed and the and this person was
• 1:03:46
  saying how the boss was getting more and more frustrated because
• 1:03:49
  they were just asking why we're not being awkward or anything
• 1:03:53
  like that. We just want to know the, the,
• 1:03:55
  the, the logic, the reason behind the compromise.
• 1:03:58
  So then we could say, OK, now I understand why.
• 1:04:01
  Now I can move on with it. And I think, you know, we're,
• 1:04:04
  we're not being provoked, we're not trying to wind people up.
• 1:04:07
  We just want to know why, why, why is this happening?
• 1:04:10
  Why is this change happening? And, and I mean, a lot of the
• 1:04:16
  time me personally, I can be quite flexible with that.
• 1:04:20
  But it's, I think especially with employers and just other
• 1:04:24
  people in general, it's being mindful like we've, we've both
• 1:04:27
  been saying about how every autistic, every neurodivergent
• 1:04:30
  person is different. And there might be some people
• 1:04:34
  that will question and ask why about these different things.
• 1:04:39
  Yeah. And I don't understand really
• 1:04:43
  why is it so difficult to give the background or to explain to
• 1:04:47
  someone why this is being asked of you.
• 1:04:52
  So, yeah. And what does disability
• 1:04:57
  equality mean to you? Not as a concept, but as a lift
• 1:05:01
  daily mission, because that's what you do as an advocate.
• 1:05:06
  So the eventual end goal is that autism and neurodivergence are
• 1:05:12
  seen no different than the colour of someone's hair.
• 1:05:15
  Now, as I said before, not spotting it in the foreground,
• 1:05:18
  not ignored in the background. It's there, it's acknowledged,
• 1:05:22
  but most importantly, it's understood and accepted so that
• 1:05:26
  reasonable adjustments and different ways of communicating
• 1:05:30
  aren't, you know, overly scrutinized all the time.
• 1:05:34
  And I'm aware you'll still get some people, you'll still get
• 1:05:37
  microaggressions and snap judgements.
• 1:05:39
  You're still, you know, you'll never, you will never eradicate
• 1:05:42
  that prejudice. Unfortunately, that's something
• 1:05:45
  that's always going to exist because it goes back to the
• 1:05:48
  preface of I don't like you because you're different.
• 1:05:52
  And that's something that's always existed within our
• 1:05:54
  society. So I think with disability
• 1:05:58
  equity, it's just trying to strive for more acceptance as
• 1:06:04
  lived daily mission. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 1:06:08
  And what's next for you both creativity and personally?
• 1:06:14
  Any aspirations in the near future?
• 1:06:18
  So creatively, I'm working on another project within
• 1:06:22
  Peterborough. So it's under the title of
• 1:06:26
  What's Changed and it's looking at the 30th anniversary of the
• 1:06:31
  Disability Discrimination Act. And the idea would be we're
• 1:06:35
  going to host a series of workshops within the city,
• 1:06:39
  various art workshops and getting various people who wants
• 1:06:42
  to come along. The various art forms of people
• 1:06:45
  can even come to something art related or, or sound.
• 1:06:50
  And the idea would be is just getting that creative expression
• 1:06:53
  and people answering those questions about sharing those
• 1:06:56
  lived experiences and in their words, thinking over like the
• 1:07:01
  last 30 years or how throughout their lifetime.
• 1:07:05
  Because the the aspirations to get various generations walks of
• 1:07:09
  life, how societal perception of disability has changed.
• 1:07:15
  And the idea would be I would collect all of this together and
• 1:07:18
  create it as a little short film and prepare and sort of project
• 1:07:23
  it in a pop up exhibition where in the exhibition you would have
• 1:07:26
  the other people's artwork. So that's something that's
• 1:07:29
  currently in the pipeline at the minute.
• 1:07:33
  And I mean, think of a create creatively.
• 1:07:37
  I'm hoping that one day I would love to elongate my short film
• 1:07:44
  Snapshot into a feature length. There's so much more to explore,
• 1:07:50
  especially with it. With the feature idea, a lot of
• 1:07:54
  it would come from my struggles with PIP.
• 1:07:57
  So nine years ago I transitioned from DLA to PIP.
• 1:08:01
  I went for the assessment and they said no.
• 1:08:04
  And then a nine month fight which almost made this homeless
• 1:08:08
  almost racked to something crippling amounts of debt.
• 1:08:12
  It went, you have the you have the initial rejection.
• 1:08:17
  Then there was the mandatory reconsideration, which it was
• 1:08:21
  almost like they did the equivalent of just to take a
• 1:08:23
  glance at it and it had to resort to challenging it at a
• 1:08:27
  magistrate's court in order and thank that via a tribunal.
• 1:08:31
  And thankfully that was successful.
• 1:08:33
  But the fact that all of that shouldn't have happened in the
• 1:08:37
  1st place because I have something that's lifelong.
• 1:08:41
  And this is the thing when it comes to the pit cuts as well,
• 1:08:46
  the these are lifelong conditions.
• 1:08:49
  They fly trade, sure, but they're always there.
• 1:08:52
  You know, I was born autistic and that's never going to change
• 1:08:56
  along with others and other new divergent people and just other
• 1:09:00
  other chronic illnesses and hidden disabilities.
• 1:09:03
  They are always going to be there.
• 1:09:05
  And the fact that there's still that mindset of, oh, just
• 1:09:09
  because I can't see it, oh, it means it, it means it doesn't
• 1:09:12
  exist. Or oh, you were, you were fine
• 1:09:14
  on Tuesday. Why not fine on Wednesday?
• 1:09:16
  And, and then this is the frustrating thing with it.
• 1:09:19
  And I think that's one of my goals is to create that film,
• 1:09:23
  just to put it out there and say, look, this, this is my
• 1:09:26
  lived experience. And I'm sure there is many other
• 1:09:28
  people that relate to this frustration.
• 1:09:32
  You know, the fact that we, we have to justify ourselves, we
• 1:09:37
  have to, we have to explain this is who we are.
• 1:09:41
  And this support is not just all about the money, the amount of
• 1:09:45
  other things that PIP can entitle you to the amount of.
• 1:09:49
  So I have a bus pass which has benefited me.
• 1:09:54
  And when I applied for it, they needed a copy of the form.
• 1:09:57
  So I had to upload the form. So it's all those, it's all
• 1:10:00
  those reasonable adjustments and those small changes.
• 1:10:03
  And it's not all financially based.
• 1:10:05
  And the fact that you get the impression that you feel like a
• 1:10:09
  burden, a financial burden, it's not right when we're when we're
• 1:10:12
  just, we're, we're people like everybody else.
• 1:10:17
  Yeah, I'm, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm speechless because none of this
• 1:10:24
  should be, should be happening. It should be common sense that,
• 1:10:29
  you know, we, we we can think about those people who might
• 1:10:33
  take advantage of it, but then what?
• 1:10:36
  What about the others who actually need it and and needed
• 1:10:39
  to to survive? A lot, a lot of those, sorry, a
• 1:10:44
  lot of those that take advantage of a microcosm, they're a 1% of
• 1:10:49
  a 1%. You know, just just because Joe
• 1:10:53
  blogs down on the road did it doesn't mean everyone else is
• 1:10:55
  going to do it. It's that one person and then
• 1:11:00
  making that snap judgement thinking, oh, it's such a
• 1:11:03
  dangerous precedent. It it doesn't.
• 1:11:06
  A lot of us you'll, you'll find the amount of people within the
• 1:11:12
  disabled, disabled and neurodivergent community are
• 1:11:14
  probably the most honest, hard working people you'll ever meet.
• 1:11:18
  You know, and we all have, we all have our ups and downs, we
• 1:11:22
  all have our struggles, but a lot, you know, we're, we're
• 1:11:26
  primarily honest. Why, why would we go out of our
• 1:11:28
  way to pretend? You know, you'd make a very good
• 1:11:33
  actor if you could pretend all of this.
• 1:11:37
  You know, I, I, I couldn't fathom trying to pretend my
• 1:11:40
  lived experiences. I honestly couldn't.
• 1:11:45
  Yeah, I, I, I just don't don't get it, but yeah, thank you for
• 1:11:50
  sharing your your experience and it's very exciting.
• 1:11:53
  Those, yeah, the, the creative projects that, that you have
• 1:12:00
  they yeah, I, I, I was trying to picture it in, in my head, you
• 1:12:05
  know, the film and all these, the, the creativity workshop and
• 1:12:08
  then having the all the artwork displayed together.
• 1:12:12
  It sounds really, really good. Maybe I'm able to to attend
• 1:12:16
  whenever you do the exhibition. So keep me posted on that,
• 1:12:20
  please. That would be.
• 1:12:21
  Oh definitely I will for sure. Yeah, and going back to money,
• 1:12:29
  if someone gave you a blank cheque and full creative
• 1:12:33
  freedom, what story would you tell tomorrow?
• 1:12:38
  If not, I do the, the feature length script that I mentioned,
• 1:12:43
  I'd, that'd be the first one. Because getting that out there,
• 1:12:47
  the whole this is me who I am, this is what I've experienced.
• 1:12:51
  And then just going off from there and showing, you know,
• 1:12:55
  that that creative side to it, all of these ways that I can
• 1:13:01
  help depict and portray and get in a lot of the people who
• 1:13:05
  helped bring Snapshot to life on that on board as well.
• 1:13:10
  I've often said as well to the actor in Snapshot, I'd love to
• 1:13:15
  work with him again and do a lot more with him because he was
• 1:13:18
  just fantastic and giving him that opportunity as well.
• 1:13:24
  But I think that if if if not idle, it would, it would be that
• 1:13:28
  one. It'd be Eva or it's just getting
• 1:13:30
  those most important stories out there.
• 1:13:35
  That sounds like yeah, we just keep dreaming and wishing for a
• 1:13:38
  blank cheque to make dreams come true.
• 1:13:41
  It's it's very sad to see that money still makes so much
• 1:13:47
  difference in in our lives and the things that that we want to
• 1:13:51
  do. It shouldn't be we shouldn't
• 1:13:53
  have this all of all of our wishes and dreams should not be
• 1:14:00
  depending dependent on on money, but it is what it is.
• 1:14:07
  And what advice would you give to other neuro divergent
• 1:14:11
  storytellers who are trying to break into the film industry?
• 1:14:16
  So I remember being asked a similar question when.
• 1:14:21
  So I did an interview with National Autistic Society and
• 1:14:24
  I'd pretty much give the same sort of advice, which is just
• 1:14:29
  tell whatever stories you feel most passionate about in any way
• 1:14:33
  you want. You know, find a way to channel
• 1:14:36
  and protect, project your vision, even for others to see
• 1:14:40
  or simply just for the fun of it.
• 1:14:41
  Because when you, when you're putting videos on YouTube, you
• 1:14:45
  know, a lot of people think, oh, it's about view counts and
• 1:14:48
  algorithms and this, that and the other.
• 1:14:49
  It's fair enough for audience engagement, but it only takes
• 1:14:53
  that one view for someone to watch your film and think, I'd
• 1:14:56
  like to work with you. I'd like to do more with you the
• 1:14:59
  fact that it took that one person to watch Asperger's and
• 1:15:03
  what of it and think I like what you're offering and it's steam
• 1:15:07
  rolled from there. And another thing in terms it's
• 1:15:11
  incredibly difficult, especially to break into the film industry.
• 1:15:14
  I mean, I still often feel like get the impression that I'm on
• 1:15:19
  the outside, but and also when I've slowly progressed, imposter
• 1:15:25
  syndrome often often raises ugly head, which it's easier said
• 1:15:30
  than done, but it's you have to kind of justify to yourself and
• 1:15:34
  say, you know, you are here, you did this work, you shared this
• 1:15:37
  work. You know, you're not, you didn't
• 1:15:39
  just stumble in here. You didn't pay your way in here,
• 1:15:42
  did you? You know, and it's very
• 1:15:44
  difficult to to try and convince yourself of that, but also to
• 1:15:48
  not let any criticism deter you either right from yourself, if
• 1:15:52
  you I can be my own worst enemy or others.
• 1:15:56
  And to try and not burn yourself out if writer's block visits
• 1:16:02
  because I've had writer's block before.
• 1:16:04
  And you push and push and push and you want to get the words on
• 1:16:07
  the page, but you physically can't.
• 1:16:09
  You've got the wall. But in the end, you just
• 1:16:10
  mentally burn yourself out. And I think about trial and
• 1:16:14
  error and fine, eventually finding your voice and writing
• 1:16:18
  style the chances are others want to hear and a vision that
• 1:16:23
  others will want to see. And like I've said about
• 1:16:27
  creative slumps and wanting to give up, patience and
• 1:16:31
  perseverance is paramount. I'd say just it's much like with
• 1:16:35
  any other aspirational career choice.
• 1:16:38
  Definitely, yeah. And I totally relate with
• 1:16:41
  imposter syndrome. I find myself very often
• 1:16:44
  thinking why? Why am I doing here?
• 1:16:46
  Is this good enough? Am I good enough?
• 1:16:48
  Why maybe I shouldn't be doing the podcast, But then it's it's
• 1:16:52
  what you were saying. You know, if it's your passion
• 1:16:56
  and yeah, it's part of yourself, it kind of becomes an extension
• 1:17:00
  of yourself. And then you just cannot live
• 1:17:03
  without it any longer. So yeah, I totally relate.
• 1:17:09
  And who is your biggest support on your journey?
• 1:17:13
  When growing up, it's my mum, bar none.
• 1:17:16
  So I was diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome when I was 4
• 1:17:20
  by a speech therapist. My mum told me that she said
• 1:17:24
  your son is a textbook case. And she sat there and thought,
• 1:17:28
  well, what's Asperger's syndrome?
• 1:17:30
  What's that? And she explained how it was on
• 1:17:32
  the autism spectrum because obviously this was, I'm a child
• 1:17:35
  of the 90s. So this was a term that was used
• 1:17:37
  and diagnosed. Obviously it's not anymore, but
• 1:17:40
  she took all that information and she went straight to the
• 1:17:44
  library. She combed for every book, she
• 1:17:46
  she deeply researched it and she supported me in the best way
• 1:17:51
  that she could, as well as juggling my the siblings when
• 1:17:53
  growing up and for that I will forever remain indebted.
• 1:17:58
  Now my mum is one of my biggest inspirations.
• 1:18:03
  She's an, she's incredibly tenacious.
• 1:18:05
  She's one of these people that pull no punches and you know you
• 1:18:09
  can never put the wall over her eyes, never.
• 1:18:12
  She will see for it all. And at the moment, at present as
• 1:18:17
  well, I've always got my mum. She's always there on the other
• 1:18:20
  end of the phone. But also my wife and daughter
• 1:18:23
  are a huge support at the moment as well.
• 1:18:26
  And it's, it's these people that I'm these close group of people
• 1:18:30
  that I'm incredibly blessed to have on my personal and creative
• 1:18:34
  journey. Yeah.
• 1:18:36
  Yeah, it's those people are very important to to have around us
• 1:18:41
  because they they make a huge difference.
• 1:18:44
  And how do you treat yourself with regards to your well-being?
• 1:18:49
  So this is something I've struggled with for a long time.
• 1:18:53
  I only recently had therapy in the last year about it.
• 1:18:57
  So it was something long term and for years I often used to
• 1:19:01
  venture down these forms of extreme self deprecation.
• 1:19:07
  And I think it all stemmed from when I was bullied when I was a
• 1:19:10
  teenager. So it was, I don't, I'd have all
• 1:19:14
  of these other problems that I'd go backwards and forwards for
• 1:19:16
  counselling for, but well-being was something that almost, it
• 1:19:20
  was something that in my mind, it didn't matter.
• 1:19:23
  You get into this mind process where you think, oh, it's only
• 1:19:26
  me. It doesn't matter.
• 1:19:27
  As long as everyone else is OK, I don't matter.
• 1:19:31
  You know, it's never been truly kind to yourself.
• 1:19:36
  And as a result, last year it got to a boiling point where I
• 1:19:42
  almost pushed everyone away as a result of it.
• 1:19:46
  I almost, there's so much like that went wrong because it was
• 1:19:52
  something that had festered, something that I'd not properly
• 1:19:55
  dealt with, you know, it was and as a result of my behaviour it
• 1:20:00
  was, it was a reason but not an excuse.
• 1:20:03
  But through this therapy, it was thinking right.
• 1:20:07
  I need to deal with this properly.
• 1:20:08
  I need to take more time than I've ever done before to self
• 1:20:13
  prioritise, you know, and be more kind to my body.
• 1:20:17
  And my mind as well as my body, because before you think, when
• 1:20:23
  you get in that mindset, if there's anything that you feel
• 1:20:26
  is wrong in the ailment, you think you put it off.
• 1:20:28
  You don't go to the doctors, you think, Oh no, it's only pain.
• 1:20:31
  I'm all right, I don't mind. In your mind, you get in that
• 1:20:34
  process of I don't matter when you clearly do.
• 1:20:39
  And it's those cycles that, like I said, it's only taken me
• 1:20:43
  recently to break free of and say, no, you know what?
• 1:20:46
  Actually, I do matter. And I'm and all these people
• 1:20:49
  that care for me, all these people that love me, that
• 1:20:53
  appreciate me for who I am. And it's also more importantly
• 1:20:56
  taking that and taking that love and kindness in yourself because
• 1:21:02
  as an autistic person, you're constantly at times at your
• 1:21:06
  wit's end with yourself. You have this internal conflict
• 1:21:09
  that never ends. You have particularly bad days
• 1:21:14
  when you're trying to navigate seeds of people when something
• 1:21:18
  goes horribly wrong where you you, you train is half an hour
• 1:21:22
  late. Or it's this, this, that and the
• 1:21:24
  other. Or it might just be a
• 1:21:26
  particularly nasty exchange you had with someone and that sits
• 1:21:29
  with you for the rest of the day.
• 1:21:31
  And all of that just continues to add up.
• 1:21:33
  And you just keep going back to that mindset of, you know, I'm
• 1:21:38
  the problem, you know, I, I'm not good enough.
• 1:21:41
  I'm not, I, I don't deserve to be here.
• 1:21:45
  I don't deserve this. And, and that's the thing.
• 1:21:47
  And as a result, you end up neglecting yourself.
• 1:21:50
  So it's very, it's incredibly important to, if you ever reach
• 1:21:57
  that point, you know, to try. And I know it's, it's incredibly
• 1:22:01
  difficult when you try to venture down roots of therapy.
• 1:22:05
  It's waiting times and this that and the other, but I think it's
• 1:22:09
  just trying to push through all that really and finding that
• 1:22:13
  help and support in particular, which is what I eventually got
• 1:22:17
  and I'm incredibly grateful for, to be able to step back and
• 1:22:21
  realise this isn't healthy behaviour.
• 1:22:24
  This is not how you should be treating yourself.
• 1:22:26
  This is not how you should be viewing your well-being, you
• 1:22:29
  know. Yeah, it's, it's about
• 1:22:32
  recognising that yeah, something is is off and it it shouldn't be
• 1:22:38
  like that. And and therapy or counselling
• 1:22:42
  helps massively, even though I feel like there's still quite a
• 1:22:46
  lot of stigma around it. Definitely.
• 1:22:50
  But it's also good to see that you hear more and more people
• 1:22:55
  using therapy and counselling services because yeah, we, we
• 1:23:00
  are very bad at prioritizing ourselves.
• 1:23:03
  And, and we don't even realize that if we are not well with
• 1:23:07
  ourselves, then we we will not be well for our children and,
• 1:23:11
  and for our family who who love us and who are around us every
• 1:23:16
  day. So it's it's, it's that knock on
• 1:23:19
  effect, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 1:23:23
  It's the oxygen mask analogy. You know if you are on a plane,
• 1:23:28
  you need to put the oxygen mask on yourself before you put it on
• 1:23:33
  on your child. Exactly.
• 1:23:35
  It's the same, but yeah. And if you were a superhero or
• 1:23:41
  had a superpower, what or who would that be and how would you
• 1:23:45
  use it in your advocacy mission? I'm not sure about being a
• 1:23:51
  superhero because I don't know it's, that's that way of
• 1:23:54
  responsibility. But I mean, in terms of
• 1:23:56
  superpower, all I could, all I can think of is a way of slowing
• 1:24:03
  down time. So there was enough hours in the
• 1:24:07
  day to be able to do what I need to do.
• 1:24:10
  And I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate being able to
• 1:24:14
  do that, especially neurodivergent people, that time
• 1:24:17
  to decompress and to recharge, especially when at times it
• 1:24:22
  feels like the people in the world around them is moving at
• 1:24:25
  1,000,000 miles an hour. Yeah, yeah, it's good.
• 1:24:31
  I had never thought about that, but yeah, that would be amazing
• 1:24:36
  if you had that superpower. It would make life easier.
• 1:24:40
  Yesterday we had I attended the workshop at work and one of the
• 1:24:47
  questions for for us to reflect on was if you had another day in
• 1:24:52
  the week, what else would you would you do with it?
• 1:24:58
  So yeah, it, it would actually be better not having an another
• 1:25:02
  day in a week, but actually to slow down the time and then you
• 1:25:06
  are able to do more or do things not in such a rushed pace
• 1:25:11
  because sometimes it's what it feels like these days.
• 1:25:14
  You know, everything is, is a rush.
• 1:25:16
  And when you try to breathe, then you have a million things
• 1:25:20
  piled on your To Do List because you try to step back and and
• 1:25:25
  have a bit of a breath. But then, yeah, so that's
• 1:25:28
  definitely a great superpower to to have.
• 1:25:33
  And John, I don't know how much you are into music, but if, if,
• 1:25:39
  if you were, if there was a song that captures your your journey
• 1:25:42
  either as a parent or a creator or or just personally, what song
• 1:25:47
  would that be and why does it resonate with you?
• 1:25:50
  So there's a song by an electronic artist called Square
• 1:25:54
  Pusher and it's called Iambic 9 Poetry.
• 1:25:59
  So it's it's quite, there's a lot of jazz and electronic
• 1:26:03
  influence in it. And it starts off simple enough.
• 1:26:06
  You've got sort of this, these lovely melodies and harmonies
• 1:26:09
  and the drum beat kicks in and it quite, it's very, it starts
• 1:26:13
  off very sort of rudimentary, but as the song progresses it
• 1:26:17
  grows more complex and as the synthesise and everything grow
• 1:26:21
  builds, it grows more emotionally potent.
• 1:26:24
  And there comes a part sort of right near the end where the
• 1:26:27
  drums just feel scatter shot and it plays faster.
• 1:26:30
  And I relate to that a lot because it reminds me of the
• 1:26:34
  unpredictability of life and also the way you have to roll
• 1:26:37
  with the punches. Just everything.
• 1:26:40
  You think you've got a hold of everything.
• 1:26:42
  And then you get a curveball like COVID, and you know, you've
• 1:26:47
  got all of these things to deal with.
• 1:26:48
  You think everything is plain sailing.
• 1:26:51
  And then you've got all of these other things that you've got to
• 1:26:54
  juggle and that. And yeah, it's a song that I
• 1:26:58
  actually keep coming back to. I don't know why.
• 1:27:01
  I find it quite ironic, especially when you can resonate
• 1:27:05
  with instrumental music more because when the music just
• 1:27:09
  speaks for itself and breathes as well.
• 1:27:12
  Yeah, yeah, I need to listen to that.
• 1:27:15
  I don't know it, but it sounds by the way you and I love the
• 1:27:19
  description that that you created for it.
• 1:27:22
  So yeah, I'm quite curious to to listen to it.
• 1:27:25
  Thank you. And if you could go back in
• 1:27:29
  time, what would you tell your younger self?
• 1:27:34
  I'd say you'll be fine, that things will fall into place,
• 1:27:39
  just not in the way you're going to expect it to, and that you'll
• 1:27:43
  be happy and to focus on only what matters to you.
• 1:27:47
  The phrase that I've often used is if it's a storm in a teacup,
• 1:27:54
  it's not worth brewing. Very true, very true.
• 1:27:59
  And what are your hopes for the future?
• 1:28:02
  To continue the film making and advocacy eventually branch out,
• 1:28:07
  as I've said, into different kinds of films because you do
• 1:28:10
  risk that pigeonhole in. But like I said, I feel it's
• 1:28:14
  important that I tell these stories 1st and then I move on
• 1:28:18
  and personally be as good as a father and a husband that I can
• 1:28:24
  be. And I'm hoping as well to go
• 1:28:27
  back to my driving lessons because I lapsed a few years ago
• 1:28:33
  and I'm hoping, so I excuse me, I had a recent diagnosis of late
• 1:28:40
  onset type 1 diabetes. So as a result, I now need to
• 1:28:44
  apply for a medical driver's license and go through all of
• 1:28:47
  that. And I'm hoping that I I pass
• 1:28:50
  fourth time around so. Yes, good luck with that.
• 1:28:56
  I'm sure you will like it actually took me 3 times in the
• 1:29:00
  driving test, not not in the the theory tests.
• 1:29:03
  So yeah, there there was one of the situations back in the day
• 1:29:08
  that I was feeling like, why can I not do this?
• 1:29:11
  You know why, why is it that people pass it first and I have
• 1:29:14
  to be repeating it. And so, yeah, we, we can do it.
• 1:29:19
  It just takes a bit slight, slightly longer for us.
• 1:29:24
  But good luck with it. And finally, if you're hard at a
• 1:29:29
  voice, what would it tell us? I'd like to think it would tell
• 1:29:35
  you what I've been trying to tell you today, just through
• 1:29:38
  when I talk, right, or through a lot of the work that I do.
• 1:29:43
  You know, part of me is hoping that it comes across better
• 1:29:48
  really than without having that worry of miscommunication,
• 1:29:52
  especially with with between the mind and the and the mouth.
• 1:29:56
  Really. That's because you just know,
• 1:30:00
  especially I know you have gut feelings, but you also have
• 1:30:04
  heart feelings about the different things.
• 1:30:07
  And it's very much like when you're create, when you're
• 1:30:12
  watching other films and programmes, you can almost get
• 1:30:17
  the impression that so much heart and soul was to put into
• 1:30:21
  something. And I think as well, on the
• 1:30:23
  opposite end, you know, when you've put a lot of sort of your
• 1:30:29
  heart and self into something else, and not just creatively,
• 1:30:32
  but within your personal life as well.
• 1:30:35
  Yeah. Yeah, thank you so much, John.
• 1:30:39
  It has been an absolute pleasure to interview you and hear more
• 1:30:44
  about your projects and your your personal life.
• 1:30:46
  Thanks for sharing all all that you all that you did today.
• 1:30:51
  And yeah, I'll Add all the links to your films and, and yeah, the
• 1:30:56
  Oliver McGowan training as well. And yeah, hopefully we can do
• 1:31:02
  this at some point when you release Idol and then you can
• 1:31:07
  tell us about it then. Hopefully.
• 1:31:09
  Thank you very much for having me.
• 1:31:11
  You're very welcome. It was a great pleasure to have
• 1:31:14
  you. Thank you.
• 1:31:16
  Thank you. Thank you so much for listening
• 1:31:35
  or watching this episode of the Neuro Diverse Voices podcast.
• 1:31:40
  Also, a huge thank you to today's guest for sharing their
• 1:31:43
  story with such honesty and insight.
• 1:31:48
  If you found this episode valuable, please share it with
• 1:31:52
  someone who might need to hear it.
• 1:31:55
  And don't forget to subscribe, leave a comment, or follow us on
• 1:32:00
  social media. It really helps others finding
• 1:32:04
  the podcast. You can find all links to
• 1:32:07
  everything we talked about today in the episode description.
• 1:32:11
  This podcast is about connection, community, and
• 1:32:16
  change. So let's keep the conversation
• 1:32:19
  going. Until next time, take care, be
• 1:32:23
  kind to yourself, and keep embracing difference.