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Predicting Your Divorce · Pursuit of Sassiness

0:04
Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, thanks for coming back and coming along this
0:07
Speaker 1: journey with me. Like I mentioned in the previous episodes,
0:11
Speaker 1: I'm in the middle of a divorce. The end of
0:13
Speaker 1: my marriage played out on reality TV, which really did
0:17
Speaker 1: add an extra layer that's already difficult and a painful process.
0:22
Speaker 1: As I found myself deciding to end my marriage, I
0:25
Speaker 1: realized that I really didn't have a clue about the
0:28
Speaker 1: divorce process. So I'm super excited for our guest today
0:33
Speaker 1: because I have so many questions and I'm sure this
0:36
Speaker 1: conversation will resonate with many of you. Welcome family law
0:41
Speaker 1: attorney Dennis Bentrano, who also hosts his own podcast called
0:45
Speaker 1: The DRV Law Show Podcast.
0:47
Speaker 2: Hi Dennis, Hey Michelle, how are you good to meet you?
0:50
Speaker 2: Good to meet you.
0:51
Speaker 1: I'm so excited and I've been watching you for years.
0:54
Speaker 1: I love I think you're so insightful and everything I've
0:58
Speaker 1: seen on social media is incredible.
1:00
Speaker 2: You're very knowledgeable in what you do.
1:03
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. I'm glad to be on the show.
1:05
Speaker 3: It'll be a good opportunity for us to chat about
1:07
Speaker 3: the process.
1:08
Speaker 1: Absolutely, so I kind of want to start from the
1:11
Speaker 1: very beginning. You know, most people when they get married,
1:14
Speaker 1: they don't plan on getting divorced. So what is that
1:17
Speaker 1: first thing someone should do when they start contemplating leaving
1:21
Speaker 1: their spouse.
1:22
Speaker 3: I always tell people when you utter those words for
1:26
Speaker 3: the first time, I want a divorce, or threaten the divorce,
1:30
Speaker 3: or you're having an argument back and forth and that
1:32
Speaker 3: thought even crosses your mind, that's the point at which
1:36
Speaker 3: you really need to, you know, step back and I
1:40
Speaker 3: think be really thoughtful about the decision, because clearly it's
1:45
Speaker 3: something you're contemplating and it's a huge decision to make.
1:49
Speaker 3: Not that I'm discouraging people from doing it, but really
1:52
Speaker 3: be thoughtful about, like making that ultimate decision. And once
1:56
Speaker 3: you know that that's a direction you need to go
2:00
Speaker 3: in in your life to reach that next phase of
2:02
Speaker 3: your life or to turn that proverbial page, then it's
2:06
Speaker 3: time to start surrounding yourself with a group of people
2:09
Speaker 3: who are really just going to be your support team.
2:12
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And for myself, you know, I did have friends
2:16
Speaker 1: that were in the divorce process, so it was helpful
2:19
Speaker 1: for me. They recommended attorneys, But I feel like if
2:23
Speaker 1: you don't have friends who are in the same boat
2:25
Speaker 1: as you, there's just so much there's just so much
2:28
Speaker 1: information out there, Like what do you look for when
2:31
Speaker 1: you're trying to find the right divorce attorney.
2:36
Speaker 3: That's a hard one. I think choosing the right lawyer
2:41
Speaker 3: can be one of the most difficult decisions you'll make,
2:43
Speaker 3: especially right out of the gate. But I think, look,
2:45
Speaker 3: there's a couple of tips that I would have in
2:47
Speaker 3: that regard. I think, certainly read reviews, Certainly consume as
2:54
Speaker 3: much information as you can that's out there, because right
2:56
Speaker 3: now we're at a very unique point in time in
2:59
Speaker 3: that there's so much free information out there about navigating
3:04
Speaker 3: the process. So start consuming that free information that's out there.
3:08
Speaker 3: Read some reviews, take a look at some websites, and
3:12
Speaker 3: then just go in and meet with people. I will
3:14
Speaker 3: tell you the best divorce lawyers are also really good people,
3:20
Speaker 3: and they tend to exude a level of confidence about
3:23
Speaker 3: their craft. And you would be surprised how insightful a layperson,
3:27
Speaker 3: somebody goes no legal training at all, can be about
3:30
Speaker 3: choosing the right lawyer if they take their time and
3:33
Speaker 3: they're thoughtful about it. When you go into a lawyer's office,
3:37
Speaker 3: you know, nine times out of ten you're gonna know
3:39
Speaker 3: you're gonna walk in the office. It's gonna look organized,
3:41
Speaker 3: it's gonna look like a well put together operation. And
3:44
Speaker 3: then when you meet with that lawyer, you know they're
3:46
Speaker 3: gonna sit down and they're gonna talk to you.
3:49
Speaker 4: The good lawyers.
3:50
Speaker 3: Are gonna make you feel like you're in the right place,
3:53
Speaker 3: and you'd be surprised. Trust your gut, you'll know.
3:55
Speaker 2: I feel the same way.
3:56
Speaker 1: I interviewed a couple lawyers and I just, you know,
4:00
Speaker 1: somebody who understood me, and I connected with them, and
4:03
Speaker 1: I just felt like they would really push for me.
4:06
Speaker 1: That's who I ended up going with.
4:08
Speaker 3: Here's an important piece about that, Michelle.
4:10
Speaker 4: Think about this.
4:11
Speaker 3: You interviewed a few lawyers. That's a really important tip
4:16
Speaker 3: right there. Make sure you don't go into a lawyer's
4:19
Speaker 3: office like, oh, I'm gonna find this lawyer, this one
4:21
Speaker 3: looks good, I'm gonna choose this one today. Don't go
4:24
Speaker 3: into it in that way. Interview a few lawyers and
4:26
Speaker 3: see where you feel comfortable.
4:28
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I think I actually learned the wrong the
4:31
Speaker 1: hard way. I learned the hard way because initially we
4:35
Speaker 1: tried working with a mediator and we didn't ask any
4:39
Speaker 1: questions and we just kind of found one and hired her,
4:42
Speaker 1: and it just was not a good person for us
4:45
Speaker 1: to work with.
4:45
Speaker 3: I tell people when I do consultations, I say, after
4:49
Speaker 3: I do a consultation with a client, I'll say, I
4:51
Speaker 3: want you to go home and think about this, and
4:54
Speaker 3: I want you to call us back if you feel
4:57
Speaker 3: like we're a good fit for you. And that speaks
5:01
Speaker 3: volumes anybody that's trying to like, Oh, don't worry about it,
5:04
Speaker 3: I'll take care of it.
5:05
Speaker 4: I've got it all settled for you. I've got y'all
5:07
Speaker 4: to get y'all taken care of.
5:09
Speaker 3: Be cautious about those sort of approaches and those types
5:13
Speaker 3: of personalities in either divorce mediation or in divorce law.
5:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you.
5:19
Speaker 1: And so I didn't know anything about a mediator, And
5:22
Speaker 1: so what do you know, if somebody can't afford an attorney,
5:28
Speaker 1: what do you recommend.
5:31
Speaker 3: I wholeheartedly believe in the divorce mediation process.
5:35
Speaker 4: I really do.
5:36
Speaker 3: I think it's something that should work for most couples,
5:42
Speaker 3: not all most, And I'll put a little asterisk next
5:45
Speaker 3: to that, it's not you know, mediation can take on
5:49
Speaker 3: multiple different forms, right. It can be two parties working
5:52
Speaker 3: with a mediator, It can be two parties with their
5:57
Speaker 3: own lawyers working with a mediator, or it can also
6:01
Speaker 3: be the lawyers taking a large role and really being
6:03
Speaker 3: involved in representing their clients in the context of the
6:06
Speaker 3: mediation process. I mean, look, it's going to vary from
6:08
Speaker 3: state to state and from you know, county to county
6:11
Speaker 3: what the rules are. But I will say, generally speaking,
6:16
Speaker 3: going into the divorce process, like I need to find
6:21
Speaker 3: something that's fair in the form of an amicable resolution
6:26
Speaker 3: that will get me to the other side. If that's
6:28
Speaker 3: the mentality of both parties, mediation can work.
6:33
Speaker 1: Uh.
6:33
Speaker 3: And then you just need to figure out which which
6:37
Speaker 3: you know, system, which which type of mediation works best
6:40
Speaker 3: for you. I always suggest, like, look, especially if it's
6:43
Speaker 3: kids and there's a lot of complexities, and it's a
6:45
Speaker 3: long term marriage and there's high assets, you know, you
6:48
Speaker 3: probably best off each having your own lawyer and then
6:51
Speaker 3: trying to work with a mediator on the things that
6:55
Speaker 3: would be too costly or wasteful in terms of legal
6:59
Speaker 3: fees having the lawyers go back and forth and back
7:02
Speaker 3: and forth and back and forth.
7:03
Speaker 2: I didn't know that. So you could have both an
7:06
Speaker 2: attorney and a mediator.
7:07
Speaker 3: You can and the situations that we typically do. So
7:11
Speaker 3: we have two certified divorce mediators here, I'm one of them.
7:15
Speaker 3: We have multiple divorce attorneys, so we deal with every
7:19
Speaker 3: type of scenario in terms of in the context of mediation.
7:23
Speaker 3: We have situations where we're just the lawyers just sitting
7:26
Speaker 3: on the sidelines, advising along the way, giving legal advice,
7:29
Speaker 3: making sure that the agreement that you ultimately reached in
7:32
Speaker 3: your case is fair to you, and making sure whichever
7:35
Speaker 3: whatever written agreement you ultimately arrive at is correctly properly
7:40
Speaker 3: drafted to ensure that it protects your interests.
7:42
Speaker 4: We do that.
7:43
Speaker 3: We've also been the mediator where there's lawyers. Each party
7:47
Speaker 3: has their own lawyer and we're the mediator in the middle.
7:50
Speaker 3: So I do think that tends to be the more
7:56
Speaker 3: thorough approach. It is a little bit more costly, but
7:58
Speaker 3: I do think it's worth it. It's, like I said,
8:01
Speaker 3: complexities in your case where you feel like it's very
8:03
Speaker 3: important to have a lawyer representing your interests, and yet
8:06
Speaker 3: you really want to try to, you know, just get
8:09
Speaker 3: a fair resolution and reach an agreement together.
8:12
Speaker 1: I know it's a really broad question, but like I
8:14
Speaker 1: had no idea going into a divorce, like, what can
8:17
Speaker 1: the timeline be like realistically?
8:21
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, it's funny I get this question
8:24
Speaker 3: all the time and I usually tell people my fastest,
8:27
Speaker 3: my quickest divorce that we've ever completed here was sixty
8:31
Speaker 3: days start to finish. So that's from the date they
8:33
Speaker 3: came into the office and sign a retainer agreement until
8:36
Speaker 3: the date we had a judgment of divorce in hand.
8:38
Speaker 3: So but that's like hyper speed. And that was a
8:41
Speaker 3: situation where it's straightforward, limited assets, not a lot of
8:45
Speaker 3: complexities with kids, and the parties came in and they said, hey,
8:48
Speaker 3: you know, we've reached an agreement. We really just want
8:50
Speaker 3: you guys to draft it up for us. And we
8:52
Speaker 3: did that and we got it done pretty quickly. But
8:53
Speaker 3: I have also seen those cases where and again these
8:57
Speaker 3: are rare.
8:58
Speaker 4: But you do have them.
9:00
Speaker 3: A judge, you know, you change judges in your case
9:02
Speaker 3: because the end of their term comes up, lawyer dies
9:06
Speaker 3: or they change lawyers. And those cases are cases that
9:09
Speaker 3: have pended for years, you know. In addition to obviously
9:12
Speaker 3: there's motions back and forth and people are arguing about
9:15
Speaker 3: the you know, the silliest things. So I think with divorces.
9:18
Speaker 3: It's one of those things where it can be as
9:20
Speaker 3: short as as possible, say sixty days, it can also
9:24
Speaker 3: be years. And that's why, like I said, I think
9:27
Speaker 3: it's very important when you go into the process that
9:31
Speaker 3: you understand it is a humongous life change for both parties.
9:38
Speaker 3: It can be such a complex not just from a
9:41
Speaker 3: legal standpoint, but also from a mental and emotional standpoint.
9:44
Speaker 3: Process to go through that you really need to you know,
9:48
Speaker 3: get organized, understand the you know, and approach it in
9:52
Speaker 3: stepwise fashion. Like, Hey, for the mental and emotional I
9:55
Speaker 3: need to get a support team with me. I need
9:57
Speaker 3: to have friends. I need to have a good lawyer.
9:59
Speaker 3: I need to have maybe a counselor with me. Maybe
10:01
Speaker 3: I need a divorce coach. You know, get prepared, get
10:04
Speaker 3: a list of the things you need to do to start,
10:06
Speaker 3: you know, a to do list, and then you know,
10:08
Speaker 3: go down through the process.
10:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I can say, even for my mental health,
10:13
Speaker 1: like it's very taxing to constantly get emails and try
10:17
Speaker 1: to find information and don't like I can't even imagine
10:20
Speaker 1: not having a lawyer or some guidance.
10:23
Speaker 4: It's a tough process.
10:24
Speaker 3: And again I think for us as the lawyers. I
10:27
Speaker 3: want to be your legal expert. Obviously, I'm so familiar
10:30
Speaker 3: with every facet of the divorce process in that I've
10:33
Speaker 3: done it for twenty five years, from everything for the
10:35
Speaker 3: most simple divorce to the most complex, you know, acrimonious,
10:39
Speaker 3: multimillion dollar construction company divorce. But I want to be
10:43
Speaker 3: your lawyer. I don't want to be your counselor, and
10:45
Speaker 3: I can't be your friend. But I want to tell you, hey,
10:49
Speaker 3: you know, get get your support team together, do the
10:52
Speaker 3: things you need to do to get your emotions under control,
10:54
Speaker 3: and make sure you're okay mentally right, to really be
10:58
Speaker 3: patient to get the right result throughout your case. And
11:01
Speaker 3: then I'm going to help you get the fair result.
11:03
Speaker 1: And something I didn't know, Like I've always heard the
11:06
Speaker 1: term before, but it's never really discussed, you know, prenups.
11:10
Speaker 1: And recently I even learned about post once you're married.
11:14
Speaker 1: Once you're married, that can be very helpful. I wish
11:19
Speaker 1: I had more information about that. And it's like you
11:21
Speaker 1: kind of get scared, like you're getting married to somebody.
11:23
Speaker 1: The last thing you're thinking about is like, hey, let's
11:26
Speaker 1: do a prenup, right, But what do you think about prenups.
11:30
Speaker 3: And listen, I think prenups in a lot of ways
11:32
Speaker 3: get a bad rap. I mean, if you watch the
11:34
Speaker 3: content that I put out there, I've spent twenty five
11:37
Speaker 3: years handling divorce cases. The best way for me to
11:39
Speaker 3: help people is take that twenty five years of experience
11:42
Speaker 3: for people and work backwards.
11:43
Speaker 4: Okay, what could we have.
11:45
Speaker 3: Done to help us either through the process or to
11:50
Speaker 3: help us land in a better relationship or even keep
11:54
Speaker 3: that relationship intact? And I think, I think you know
11:58
Speaker 3: prenups is one of the things, and it's not for
12:01
Speaker 3: the reasons that you know. The reason why I'm pro
12:04
Speaker 3: pren up is not for the reasons people think I'm
12:07
Speaker 3: pro prene up as much for the fact that it's
12:10
Speaker 3: transparency at the outset as anything else. So think of
12:15
Speaker 3: it like this, Before you get married, don't you want
12:17
Speaker 3: to know what each of your finances is like? Don't
12:20
Speaker 3: you don't you want to know what each of you
12:23
Speaker 3: expects from the other should the worst happen? Because that
12:26
Speaker 3: speaks volumes about people's personality and the person that you're
12:30
Speaker 3: ultimately going to dedicate your life to. And I think
12:34
Speaker 3: you know I'm finding that young professionals in today's day
12:38
Speaker 3: and age are doing them more and more frequently. So yeah,
12:43
Speaker 3: I'm a big proponent of prenups, and just as much
12:48
Speaker 3: because it gives you transparency before you commit your life
12:52
Speaker 3: to someone as any other reason.
12:55
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and talk to me about how people change during
12:59
Speaker 1: divorce and can even be unrecognizable.
13:02
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, it's funny because.
13:05
Speaker 2: You got people at their worst.
13:08
Speaker 3: One hundred percent out there worth. So a couple of
13:10
Speaker 3: a couple of things I'll share with you on that point.
13:12
Speaker 3: I think you know, I heard this saying the other day,
13:15
Speaker 3: and I think it's one hundred percent true. The person
13:17
Speaker 3: you divorce is not the person you married.
13:21
Speaker 4: They're a different person.
13:22
Speaker 3: And I think that's true not only because people you've
13:26
Speaker 3: all when they change over time, and they also can
13:28
Speaker 3: get nasty when the divorce process you know, comes on,
13:32
Speaker 3: But I think you know also because in those sorts
13:36
Speaker 3: of circumstances, you know, they they just change over time.
13:42
Speaker 4: So I think.
13:44
Speaker 3: It's just important when you're choosing someone to dedicate your
13:49
Speaker 3: life to. When we keep get going back to you know,
13:51
Speaker 3: like rewind, like, how do we start from a good
13:53
Speaker 3: point in these circumstances?
13:55
Speaker 1: Uh?
13:56
Speaker 3: And I always tell people like, if you're dating somebody,
14:00
Speaker 3: take a look at how they treat their worst enemy.
14:03
Speaker 3: Take a look at how they treat someone who makes
14:06
Speaker 3: them mad.
14:07
Speaker 4: How do they react.
14:09
Speaker 3: Are they the type of person that's going to chase
14:11
Speaker 3: down somebody in a road race situation and go to
14:14
Speaker 3: kick their windshield in? I mean, is this the sort
14:16
Speaker 3: of person because you want to prepare for what is
14:19
Speaker 3: this person going to be like in the worst possible circumstance.
14:25
Speaker 2: That is such great advice.
14:27
Speaker 1: That is amazing because I remember even with my ex,
14:30
Speaker 1: like I loved him so much, and I saw how
14:34
Speaker 1: he treated people when they did him wrong or he
14:37
Speaker 1: was unhappy and it wasn't good. You know, his first
14:40
Speaker 1: thought was like I want to sue you. I want
14:42
Speaker 1: to get revenge. And I never thought of it like
14:45
Speaker 1: I could one day be that person.
14:48
Speaker 3: You could one day be on the other end of it.
14:51
Speaker 3: So I'll give you a perfect, perfect example in my life.
14:53
Speaker 3: They're a handful of people's people in a circumstance that
14:56
Speaker 3: I dealt with recently who went far out of their
15:00
Speaker 3: way to do wrong to me and wrong to my kid. Right,
15:04
Speaker 3: But now I see them on a regular basis, and
15:06
Speaker 3: I say Am I gonna harbor animosity towards this person.
15:09
Speaker 3: Am I gonna dedicate energy to go after this person?
15:13
Speaker 3: Or am I gonna say, you know what, what's in
15:15
Speaker 3: the past is in the past. It's over and done with.
15:17
Speaker 3: If they're nice to me, I'm gonna be nice to them,
15:21
Speaker 3: you know. And that's why, like I always say, like,
15:23
Speaker 3: if there were ever a circumstance where I were to
15:25
Speaker 3: split from my wife and we've been happily married for years,
15:29
Speaker 3: I would never go out of my way to try
15:31
Speaker 3: to take something from her that was hers, or try
15:34
Speaker 3: to or try to just get back at her just
15:37
Speaker 3: for petty, you know, anger sort of things. And I
15:41
Speaker 3: think that speaks to people's character. It really does. So
15:44
Speaker 3: while you know, yes, it's true that people change over time,
15:47
Speaker 3: and yes, the divorce process does get people to an
15:51
Speaker 3: ugly place. And yes, you know, in the divorce process
15:54
Speaker 3: most people are what they've always say is like two
15:56
Speaker 3: or three degrees away from their normal base line personality
16:01
Speaker 3: because such a stressful event. Yes, all those things are true,
16:04
Speaker 3: but you know, good people are gonna be good people
16:07
Speaker 3: at their core.
16:09
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and that is I think one of the best
16:12
Speaker 1: advices I've ever heard because it happened to me, and
16:17
Speaker 1: you know in the beginning, you just don't think like that.
16:20
Speaker 1: And I feel like looking at it first, like worse
16:23
Speaker 1: comes to worse, what's going to happen?
16:25
Speaker 2: I think that's actually the best approach.
16:33
Speaker 1: How do you feel about people staying in marriages when
16:36
Speaker 1: they are unhappy and they have children?
16:38
Speaker 3: Well, I love that. Feel like you're modeling it. And
16:42
Speaker 3: I'll give you an example. Or watch the video on
16:44
Speaker 3: TikTok the other day, right, and they were talking about
16:46
Speaker 3: father's raising daughters, and they said, one of the best
16:50
Speaker 3: things you can do if you're a father raising a
16:52
Speaker 3: daughter is to treat her mother well because you are
16:57
Speaker 3: teaching her how she can expect to be treated by
17:01
Speaker 3: a partner when she gets older. What can she expect
17:05
Speaker 3: from her partner? Can she expect to be ridiculed? Can
17:09
Speaker 3: she expect to be you know, built up? Can you
17:12
Speaker 3: Can she expect somebody who's going to encourage her and
17:15
Speaker 3: motivate her and inspire her or can she expect that
17:20
Speaker 3: it's going to be the other direction? So I think
17:22
Speaker 3: if you're in a relationship where your partner and I
17:26
Speaker 3: think this especially goes for women and fathers and daughters,
17:28
Speaker 3: because particularly it's something close to my heart because I
17:31
Speaker 3: have a daughter right and I always am mindful of
17:35
Speaker 3: trying to treat her mother well. Just keep in mind,
17:39
Speaker 3: if you're in a relationship where your husband is treating
17:42
Speaker 3: you poorly and your daughter is watching that happen over
17:46
Speaker 3: and over again, you are modeling what she can believe
17:51
Speaker 3: she can expect from another from her partner as she
17:54
Speaker 3: gets older.
17:54
Speaker 4: So yes, I.
17:55
Speaker 3: Believe if you're in a situation where you know it's
17:58
Speaker 3: toxic or worse she had its abuse, or it's a
18:01
Speaker 3: situation where you're just gonna never get to the next step,
18:04
Speaker 3: the next page in your life leading to happiness in
18:07
Speaker 3: your life, you need to get out of it.
18:09
Speaker 1: I'm very happy you said that because my life coach
18:12
Speaker 1: actually told me that, and that's how I opened up
18:15
Speaker 1: my eyes because I never saw it that way. I
18:17
Speaker 1: didn't realize, like, my daughter is going to watch how
18:22
Speaker 1: a man treats me. And he had asked me like,
18:25
Speaker 1: would you want a man to treat your daughter that way?
18:28
Speaker 3: And listen, just let that statement lie for a little
18:32
Speaker 3: for a few minutes. I mean, listeners need to really
18:35
Speaker 3: take that to heart. Would you want a man to
18:39
Speaker 3: treat your daughter that way.
18:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think I've gotten a lot of criticism that,
18:45
Speaker 1: you know, thinking the old school way, like no matter what,
18:48
Speaker 1: even if you're unhappy, you stay in the marriage. And
18:52
Speaker 1: I think it's the complete opposite.
18:55
Speaker 3: It is it is, And I think the toxicity for
18:58
Speaker 3: kids they soak up.
18:59
Speaker 4: Give another piece of information.
19:02
Speaker 3: A lot of the divorces that I get where women
19:05
Speaker 3: come forward and they say, hey, it's it's time for
19:08
Speaker 3: me to pull the trigger and say and you know
19:09
Speaker 3: what they say was the was the proverbial last straw.
19:13
Speaker 3: Their kid said something to them. Their kid said, Mom,
19:18
Speaker 3: it's it's time. Mom, it's you can't keep putting up
19:22
Speaker 3: with this. Kids know when they're and they're soaking it
19:25
Speaker 3: up like sponges. We think that, you know, oh they're
19:28
Speaker 3: they're in their bedroom and they're sleeping, or they're hiding
19:30
Speaker 3: around the court.
19:30
Speaker 4: Listen, my daughter will.
19:31
Speaker 1: They're always listening. That is something I learned. Even with
19:34
Speaker 1: my four year old daughter. It's like, oh, yeah, they
19:37
Speaker 1: have double ears.
19:38
Speaker 4: The ears, the walls have ears, for sure. Oh yeah,
19:42
Speaker 4: we've all had those. Middle of the night. My daughter
19:44
Speaker 4: will and she's like listen, she's like a cat.
19:46
Speaker 3: Burglar in the middle of the night, I'll she'll just
19:48
Speaker 3: her head will pop out from behind the date bed
19:51
Speaker 3: in our bedroom and there she is.
19:52
Speaker 4: I didn't even hear it come in.
19:54
Speaker 2: These kids are smart nowadays.
19:56
Speaker 4: They are.
19:58
Speaker 1: So as an expert in your field, can you spot
20:02
Speaker 1: a couple who's doomed before they even know it?
20:05
Speaker 3: Ooh yeah, yeah, I can spot the signs. I mean again,
20:10
Speaker 3: and I think, you know, I hate to keep coming
20:13
Speaker 3: back to this, but I think, especially for women, you know,
20:16
Speaker 3: one of the good one indicator for me is like,
20:20
Speaker 3: and I was thinking this as we were talking earlier, like,
20:23
Speaker 3: are you with a partner who would be comfortable when
20:27
Speaker 3: you're in the spotlight and there in the shadows?
20:30
Speaker 2: M good way?
20:31
Speaker 3: They always need to be like, well, I'm in the
20:34
Speaker 3: spotlight and you're back here?
20:35
Speaker 4: Is that the dynamic there?
20:37
Speaker 1: You know?
20:38
Speaker 3: And there are times where and that was one of
20:39
Speaker 3: the other pieces from that video that I watched, like,
20:42
Speaker 3: you know, there are times where you know you need
20:46
Speaker 3: to be in the lead. They need to be building
20:48
Speaker 3: you up, they need to be supporting you, they need
20:50
Speaker 3: to be behind you, and then you do the same
20:52
Speaker 3: for them. But it can never be a circumstance where
20:55
Speaker 3: they're trying to take away from you. You know, I've
20:57
Speaker 3: seen those relationships like you're out of you know, cocktail
21:00
Speaker 3: or whatever, you know, you know, like Harry and Harry
21:03
Speaker 3: and Sally go to the party and like, you know, yeah,
21:05
Speaker 3: oh you know Sally never you know, she's she's not
21:08
Speaker 3: very smart, she doesn't know yo.
21:09
Speaker 4: She'd never lit, are you kidding?
21:12
Speaker 3: You hear stuff like that, Like if you talk to me,
21:15
Speaker 3: either in my wife's presence or outside of her presence,
21:19
Speaker 3: you will hear me talk about her like she's a
21:22
Speaker 3: fucking rock star. Excuse my friends, because she is. That's
21:26
Speaker 3: but right, I'm inspired by her, I'm motivated by her,
21:29
Speaker 3: and sometimes I look at her, I'm like, shit, I
21:33
Speaker 3: gotta I really got to pick up my game, man,
21:36
Speaker 3: this lady's killing it.
21:37
Speaker 4: And and you know, but that's what it's supposed to be.
21:41
Speaker 3: So when you see a dynamic where that's not present,
21:44
Speaker 3: or it's like, you know, I'm picking up this for
21:46
Speaker 3: him or I'm doing that for him, and like, yes,
21:48
Speaker 3: you're going to do it for each other. But if
21:50
Speaker 3: it's not a give and take, if it's not a
21:51
Speaker 3: two way street, then you got to question what you're doing.
21:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that will always change throughout life. There's always
21:58
Speaker 1: going to be one person.
21:59
Speaker 2: That achieves more, does more, and it's the cycle of life.
22:03
Speaker 1: It's and so being there for one another, having that
22:06
Speaker 1: partnership is so important. And you know marriage is supposed
22:11
Speaker 1: to be many many years, so it's like there'll be
22:14
Speaker 1: ups and downs, but supporting on one another is crucial.
22:18
Speaker 4: It's one hundred percent. And it's funny.
22:20
Speaker 3: I was watching a video that I consume a lot
22:22
Speaker 3: of social media content, not just to get ideas for
22:24
Speaker 3: my own stuff, but but just because I love the area.
22:29
Speaker 3: But they said there's three things your spouse should be doing.
22:32
Speaker 3: They should either be motivating you and inspiring you to
22:36
Speaker 3: be the best you you can be and be like
22:38
Speaker 3: your cheerleader. Or they should be helping support you. Or
22:42
Speaker 3: they should be getting the hell out of your way.
22:45
Speaker 3: And I somewhat disagree with the last one. But they
22:48
Speaker 3: can't be bringing you down, they can't be holding you back. Now,
22:52
Speaker 3: I think it's it's cheerleader or motivating and supporting you.
22:56
Speaker 3: I don't even think it should be a neutral. I
22:58
Speaker 3: don't even think they should be sitting in a situation
23:00
Speaker 3: where they're just staying out of your way. I think
23:02
Speaker 3: they should be behind you the whole way, all of it,
23:05
Speaker 3: and it definitely should never be where they're holding you
23:07
Speaker 3: back or discouraging you.
23:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, the end of my first season, I remember not
23:14
Speaker 1: to go too much into detail, but I was having
23:16
Speaker 1: brunch with my ex and my daughter and we had
23:20
Speaker 1: just finished a whole season, and out of nowhere, he
23:23
Speaker 1: just kind of kept saying, like, you should thank me
23:26
Speaker 1: that I put you on TV, and kind of bringing
23:29
Speaker 1: me down. And that was another moment that I opened
23:32
Speaker 1: up my eyes. I'm like, you're supposed to be my husband,
23:35
Speaker 1: my partner, thank you, Like this is something we did together,
23:39
Speaker 1: Like we should be celebrating together. You shouldn't try to
23:43
Speaker 1: pull me down. And I felt like that's what kept
23:45
Speaker 1: happening to me.
23:46
Speaker 2: It was always about him and never about.
23:49
Speaker 1: Me and diminishing me, and that is what broke me
23:53
Speaker 1: down at the very end, and I was like, what
23:55
Speaker 1: am I doing?
23:56
Speaker 2: My worth is like I don't deserve this.
23:59
Speaker 1: I don't deserve to have somebody treat and talk to
24:02
Speaker 1: me like that.
24:03
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, one hundred percent.
24:05
Speaker 3: I mean they have to be a situation where they're
24:07
Speaker 3: giving you the credit that you deserve. And again we
24:11
Speaker 3: come back to the situation I was talking about earlier.
24:13
Speaker 3: You have to be in situations where they are comfortable
24:18
Speaker 3: giving you there and a lot of it, I think
24:20
Speaker 3: is ego.
24:21
Speaker 4: It's like, oh, it's got to be me. It's got
24:22
Speaker 4: to be me.
24:22
Speaker 3: It's always got it's always got to be all about me.
24:25
Speaker 3: That's fine. I love ego to the extent that it
24:28
Speaker 3: means that you're confident and that you're you're driven to
24:31
Speaker 3: get ahead. But you got to check that damn ego
24:34
Speaker 3: and support your partner, you know, and you got to
24:36
Speaker 3: let them know how much you appreciate them.
24:39
Speaker 4: It's funny.
24:40
Speaker 3: I was watching an interview the other day about from
24:43
Speaker 3: u Selena Gomez and Bennie Blanco and they were talking
24:46
Speaker 3: about their relations.
24:47
Speaker 2: I've seen that so many times.
24:48
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I love it so much. He supports
24:51
Speaker 4: her so much. I love it.
24:53
Speaker 1: And I think that's why people love it, because men
24:56
Speaker 1: don't support women as much as they should.
24:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and that and let me tell you so
25:01
Speaker 3: here's so here's what's so funny about that. You know,
25:05
Speaker 3: you'll you'll hear from like the guys on my social media's.
25:07
Speaker 4: Oh that's a SIMP. That is a BS.
25:10
Speaker 3: That is the most confident man, the man who does
25:14
Speaker 3: not feel challenged by the fact that his woman is
25:19
Speaker 3: his wife.
25:20
Speaker 4: His partner is just amazing.
25:22
Speaker 3: As a matter of fact, they should feel complimented by
25:24
Speaker 3: it and support them in every way they can.
25:27
Speaker 4: That's why I love those videos, those clips of that.
25:29
Speaker 4: I love it so much.
25:30
Speaker 1: Me too, And you can see that she appreciates that
25:33
Speaker 1: and she loves him that much more because she has
25:36
Speaker 1: such a supportive partner.
25:39
Speaker 3: And he is not challenged one iota buy it, and
25:43
Speaker 3: neither is she. And that's what makes for the great partnership.
25:47
Speaker 3: And great partnerships are what they're really at its core,
25:50
Speaker 3: what great marriages are about.
25:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm curious for myself, Like, do you see now
25:56
Speaker 1: more women asking for the divorce and filing first?
26:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, the percentages have always been higher for women. It's
26:03
Speaker 3: roughly about sixty five or so percent filed by women.
26:07
Speaker 3: But I think, you know, there's good reason for that.
26:12
Speaker 3: But I think the funny part about it is people think,
26:16
Speaker 3: because of those statistics, and I think mainly men think
26:19
Speaker 3: because of those statistics that women are just like, oh uh,
26:22
Speaker 3: this guy doesn't work.
26:23
Speaker 4: I want a divorce.
26:25
Speaker 3: That is not the way it works.
26:29
Speaker 4: On average.
26:30
Speaker 3: Women spend years painstakingly, you know, trying to restore the
26:36
Speaker 3: merits or relationship and send signals and communicate and like
26:40
Speaker 3: and end up in a situation. And that's why when
26:43
Speaker 3: you get to the divorce process, many women have been like,
26:47
Speaker 3: you know, like like the situation we were talking about earlier,
26:50
Speaker 3: just like feeling like, you know, they did all these
26:54
Speaker 3: things and they get no credit and there's no support,
26:56
Speaker 3: and they're like mentally and emotionally, it's about getting past that,
27:00
Speaker 3: getting to that next level. That's why the mental and
27:02
Speaker 3: emotional peace is so important at the outset of the
27:04
Speaker 3: divorce situation, because you know, the ladies have really spent
27:09
Speaker 3: a long time pining over this decision, and it's one
27:12
Speaker 3: of the toughest decisions they have to make.
27:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't imagine a woman just wakes up one
27:17
Speaker 1: day it's like, Okay, I want to file for divorce.
27:19
Speaker 2: No, of course not. It takes so long.
27:23
Speaker 3: It does, And I think women really internalize it in
27:28
Speaker 3: my experience that they feel a sense of shame, they
27:32
Speaker 3: feel a sense of failure, they feel a sense of
27:36
Speaker 3: like like it's like it's their fault in a way,
27:40
Speaker 3: and in as part of the process, you know, one
27:44
Speaker 3: of the most important things you could do is like
27:46
Speaker 3: unpack all of that. You don't get through all of
27:49
Speaker 3: that because clearly it's not your fault and manute and
27:52
Speaker 3: in many cases it's very small percentage your fault, if
27:57
Speaker 3: at all.
27:57
Speaker 1: So I did think it was my fault because I
28:01
Speaker 1: was the person who made the final decision. But now
28:05
Speaker 1: with therapy, I've learned that no, it's I just did
28:08
Speaker 1: the right thing, and I did the right thing for
28:10
Speaker 1: myself and for my daughter.
28:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think the funny part about it is
28:14
Speaker 3: that usually the people on the other side of those
28:16
Speaker 3: circumstances will use every clever trick that they can to
28:20
Speaker 3: keep your self esteem, you know, and keep your motivation
28:24
Speaker 3: to get to the next level down right. They'll say, like,
28:27
Speaker 3: you know, perfect sample, which is like until what you
28:29
Speaker 3: were talking about earlier. They'll say like, well, you'll never
28:32
Speaker 3: find anybody who will love you as much as I do. Well,
28:34
Speaker 3: how does that devalue that person?
28:37
Speaker 1: Oh?
28:37
Speaker 3: Well, they're only you know, how could they possibly find
28:40
Speaker 3: somebody as great as this other person to love.
28:43
Speaker 4: Them like they love them?
28:44
Speaker 3: Well, no, they're worth that and so much more. And
28:48
Speaker 3: that's why again, like that Benny Blanco thing, like I
28:51
Speaker 3: tell her I love her every day and she gets
28:53
Speaker 3: tired of it, and I you know, explained to you know,
28:55
Speaker 3: talk to her about how great she is and where
28:57
Speaker 3: you know, as guys, we're not great at that.
29:00
Speaker 4: You know.
29:00
Speaker 3: I think it takes effort, It takes work. But you know,
29:03
Speaker 3: for any guys that are listening, say, if you are
29:05
Speaker 3: with a great lady, go home and tell her today
29:08
Speaker 3: you're fucking awesome, man, Like I am so.
29:10
Speaker 2: Lucky to be And how easy is that?
29:12
Speaker 1: How easy is it to give an affirmation, to give
29:15
Speaker 1: a compliment, to just be like, hey, you're amazing.
29:18
Speaker 2: I think that's all women really want.
29:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think I think just people in general
29:23
Speaker 3: want to feel appreciated, and I think especially for women,
29:27
Speaker 3: especially for the ones who are really killing it, who
29:29
Speaker 3: are doing it all, which which comprises a large majority
29:33
Speaker 3: of the women that we represent. They're doing everything, they're
29:36
Speaker 3: with the kids, they're with businesses, they're making the money,
29:38
Speaker 3: they're taking care of, doing all these things. And then like, well,
29:43
Speaker 3: you didn't do this for me, or you didn't You'll
29:45
Speaker 3: never find anybody else who are going to love you
29:46
Speaker 3: like I do im.
29:47
Speaker 4: I was like, whoa.
29:48
Speaker 2: Wait a second, Well show.
29:49
Speaker 4: You right right.
29:51
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm looking in from the outside saying this,
29:54
Speaker 3: This lady's way out of your class, dude.
30:02
Speaker 2: A couple more things I wanted to ask.
30:05
Speaker 1: So I was having a dinner with my girlfriend who's
30:07
Speaker 1: also getting divorced, and so something she said to me
30:10
Speaker 1: that I had never even thought of. She was like,
30:12
Speaker 1: you know, when you're in the divorce and you're in
30:15
Speaker 1: a room or in the house with the ex, you know,
30:18
Speaker 1: an argument can get heated and you can start screaming.
30:22
Speaker 1: And she actually knows a lot of people who call
30:25
Speaker 1: nine one one or gets arrested, and it was kind
30:29
Speaker 1: of a joke, but she was like, no, this is
30:30
Speaker 1: actually very important because nobody talks. She's like, if I
30:33
Speaker 1: would have known, I wouldn't have dialed nine one one.
30:36
Speaker 1: But you're just in the heat of the moment, Like,
30:39
Speaker 1: what what do you suggest when you are in a
30:43
Speaker 1: room and you know you're just arguing and it just
30:48
Speaker 1: gets heated.
30:51
Speaker 4: You know.
30:51
Speaker 3: I always try to counsel clients to keep things as
30:54
Speaker 3: vanilla as is possible. I think it starts from a
30:57
Speaker 3: situation where again the same. You have to remember that
31:02
Speaker 3: the same dynamic throughout that developed throughout your marriage. The
31:07
Speaker 3: other party, especially if it's a toxic relationship, is going
31:10
Speaker 3: to think post divorce, business as usual. I'm gonna talk
31:14
Speaker 3: to you the way I used to talk to you.
31:16
Speaker 3: I'm gonna treat you the way I used to treat you,
31:18
Speaker 3: and for many it's poorly And I think the shift
31:23
Speaker 3: is to realize you don't need to tolerate that. You
31:26
Speaker 3: don't need to listen to that. If they're gonna raise
31:29
Speaker 3: their voice, or they're gonna curse, or they're gonna do
31:32
Speaker 3: or they're gonna direct any communications towards you that have
31:36
Speaker 3: no useful, reasonable purpose, like talking about what the pickup
31:41
Speaker 3: and drop off is gonna be for the kids, or
31:43
Speaker 3: talking about how you're gonna you know, how you're gonna
31:45
Speaker 3: filew your taxes, walk out the door, goodbye. Absolutely, phone call,
31:50
Speaker 3: phone call, click. I don't need to tolerate that anymore.
31:55
Speaker 3: I'm not your whipping post. Okay, I'm not gonna be
31:58
Speaker 3: bullied and I don't need to listen to this garbage.
32:01
Speaker 4: Now.
32:01
Speaker 3: Obviously you do that in consultation with your lawyer, because
32:03
Speaker 3: sometimes you want to be strategic about that because a
32:05
Speaker 3: lot of times they'll surreptitiously try to like draw you in. Well,
32:09
Speaker 3: I'm going to try to push their buttons until they
32:12
Speaker 3: get aggravated, and then I'm going to go to the
32:14
Speaker 3: judge and say, well, they wouldn't talk to me about
32:15
Speaker 3: the kids.
32:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, because would that affect the custody agreement or does
32:19
Speaker 1: that affect it?
32:20
Speaker 4: Can? It can?
32:22
Speaker 3: But I think it's it's important to draw that line.
32:26
Speaker 3: It's important to know that that raising the voice foul
32:32
Speaker 3: language any level of abuse. I mean certainly anything physical
32:37
Speaker 3: should does not and should not be tolerated. And I think,
32:42
Speaker 3: you know, I have to be cautious when we're in
32:43
Speaker 3: this space because if you're in a situation where there's
32:47
Speaker 3: been physical violence, or there's been any level of domestic
32:51
Speaker 3: violence in the past, absolutely one call the police. Your
32:57
Speaker 3: safety is the most important thing, and everything follows from that,
33:03
Speaker 3: your physical and then mental and emotional safety, physical safety,
33:07
Speaker 3: police right lawyer, prosecution, those sorts of things. You know,
33:12
Speaker 3: the hotline you can always reach out to if you
33:14
Speaker 3: need to find a way to get safely out of
33:16
Speaker 3: a domestic violence relationship. You can just google hashtag the hotline.
33:21
Speaker 4: But other than.
33:22
Speaker 3: Immediate safety safety plan police. If it's just verbal and
33:26
Speaker 3: there's no domestic violence, you don't have to tolerate it.
33:29
Speaker 1: And as easy as that sounds, that is so hard
33:33
Speaker 1: in the moment. It is you want to go that
33:37
Speaker 1: back and forth and prove your point, and you.
33:40
Speaker 4: Know do you do?
33:42
Speaker 3: But I think what is that doing to you? If
33:45
Speaker 3: you do that, it's eating you up. And that's why
33:48
Speaker 3: let's back up a little bit. I want you to
33:52
Speaker 3: unpack all of the proverbial shit you dealt with in
33:57
Speaker 3: that relationship throughout. Unpack that in a therapist's office and
34:01
Speaker 3: deal with it. Okay, I know, you know, and I
34:06
Speaker 3: think people don't appreciate how much there is to deal
34:09
Speaker 3: with prior to the divorce process. Because once you get
34:12
Speaker 3: your arms around that and work with your counselor your
34:15
Speaker 3: therapists to develop mechanisms to deal with this person on
34:19
Speaker 3: the other side of your situation, you will be in
34:22
Speaker 3: a healthy space to say, I'm going to take this.
34:26
Speaker 3: I don't need to prove any point to them, I
34:28
Speaker 3: don't need to answer to them in any way. There's
34:30
Speaker 3: no remnant of the broken relationship that I need to
34:33
Speaker 3: air my grievances with them.
34:35
Speaker 4: I'm done with them.
34:36
Speaker 3: The best thing you can do for yourself and to
34:40
Speaker 3: prove anything to them is to walk out the door.
34:42
Speaker 1: That's my philosophy now, and it took me some time
34:45
Speaker 1: to learn. I was like, I don't need to deal
34:46
Speaker 1: with this. I don't have to hear it.
34:48
Speaker 2: I have a lawyer email done one hundred percent, thank you.
34:52
Speaker 1: And then I want to ask two questions that I
34:55
Speaker 1: get asked often. I think I know the answers to this,
34:58
Speaker 1: but a lot of women don't. You know a lot
35:00
Speaker 1: of people have a lot of women have beautiful, big
35:03
Speaker 1: engagement rings and they're like, what do I do? Do
35:06
Speaker 1: I give it back to them? And I said that
35:09
Speaker 1: it's a gift. That's what I was told. Is that correct?
35:13
Speaker 4: It depends on your state. So let's put it this way.
35:16
Speaker 3: I'm a New York state divorce lawyer. So typically the
35:19
Speaker 3: engagement ring is a gift and it's you know, and
35:22
Speaker 3: it's dealt with in that way through the through the
35:24
Speaker 3: divorce process. But I think I would be cautious about
35:27
Speaker 3: it and talk with your lawyer about your state's laws,
35:31
Speaker 3: because remember, divorce laws will vary from state to state.
35:34
Speaker 1: Okay, and these are conversations you really need to have
35:37
Speaker 1: before you get married, like how can you get married
35:40
Speaker 1: to somebody spend the rest of your life with them,
35:42
Speaker 1: but don't know their financial situation?
35:45
Speaker 3: Let that lie for a little bit, because I'll tell
35:47
Speaker 3: you that is a piece of very valuable sound advice.
35:51
Speaker 3: And not just understand how important what you just said is.
35:54
Speaker 3: It's not just about the divorce process, but it's just
35:59
Speaker 3: as much about building a relationship that will last. It
36:04
Speaker 3: starts with transparency. Know how that person's going to react
36:09
Speaker 3: in the worst possible circumstance.
36:12
Speaker 4: Know how they make their money.
36:14
Speaker 3: Know what their debts are, Like, what are their assets
36:17
Speaker 3: if we were divorce, what do you expect from me? Well,
36:20
Speaker 3: I want you to be a stay at home mom,
36:22
Speaker 3: but I don't want to give you any assets if
36:23
Speaker 3: we divorce. We'll wait a second. If I'm helping you
36:28
Speaker 3: build all this money and then you want to just
36:30
Speaker 3: walk out the door that your so again, I think
36:34
Speaker 3: the prenup is a way, like you said, to have
36:37
Speaker 3: transparency from the outset.
36:40
Speaker 4: Know all of these things.
36:41
Speaker 1: Okay, And what is it called the post Once you're
36:45
Speaker 1: already married.
36:46
Speaker 3: There's a post nup. So in post nups, it's funny,
36:49
Speaker 3: there's a there so. So in New York State, we
36:53
Speaker 3: do divorce agreements, which is generally a written contract and
36:56
Speaker 3: agreement that provides for every possible issue that would come
37:00
Speaker 3: up in the context of your divorce case. You can
37:03
Speaker 3: do it prior to the marriage it's called a prenup.
37:05
Speaker 3: You can do it post the marriage, and during the marriage,
37:08
Speaker 3: which is called a post up. And then if you're
37:11
Speaker 3: doing it in anticipation of a divorce, it's typically called
37:14
Speaker 3: a separation agreement. And then in the context of your
37:17
Speaker 3: divorce case, the written contract that settles all the issues
37:21
Speaker 3: if you reach an amicable agreement between the two parties,
37:23
Speaker 3: is basically called a divorce settlement agreement. All four of
37:26
Speaker 3: these agreements need to meet the same standards under the
37:29
Speaker 3: New York State divorce law, very similar in sum and substance.
37:33
Speaker 3: So pren up, yes, transparency, do it early. Post up
37:38
Speaker 3: is a situation where if your marriage is on the
37:41
Speaker 3: rocks but you're trying to work on it, and you say, hey,
37:44
Speaker 3: we're going to jump in with both feet to counseling,
37:47
Speaker 3: but just to prepare in advance if the worst does happen.
37:50
Speaker 3: If this counseling fails and the relationship and we're unable
37:54
Speaker 3: to restore the marriage a relationship we want to while
37:57
Speaker 3: we're thinking clearly and while we're not at loggerheads with
38:01
Speaker 3: each other, you know, sort out what would happen in
38:04
Speaker 3: the event of a divorce, and in those sorts of
38:06
Speaker 3: circumstances you do the post numb.
38:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the best time to do it.
38:09
Speaker 1: And I wish I was told and I knew about that,
38:12
Speaker 1: because I would have done it when I was first
38:15
Speaker 1: thinking about it, and that would have saved so much
38:17
Speaker 1: time and a headache. And I think it would just
38:20
Speaker 1: it would have made the process much easier. So I
38:23
Speaker 1: think it's important to know about that, even when you
38:26
Speaker 1: are married, you can still have a post.
38:28
Speaker 4: Not it is one hundred percent.
38:31
Speaker 3: And like I said, I think there are so many
38:33
Speaker 3: emotions and the average divorce case, there are so many
38:36
Speaker 3: emotions swirling in the context of a divorce case because
38:41
Speaker 3: think of it, every aspect of your life is going
38:44
Speaker 3: to change. And in addition to the fact that many
38:47
Speaker 3: people still harbor, you know, remaining remnants of the broken
38:51
Speaker 3: relationship that they need to that they've kind of feel
38:53
Speaker 3: like they need to get back at the other side on.
38:55
Speaker 3: And in addition to those things that are kind of
38:58
Speaker 3: swirling around, you also have a SITCHI and that where
39:00
Speaker 3: your entire life is being turned upside down. So in
39:03
Speaker 3: the context of that, we expect you, as divorce lawyers,
39:06
Speaker 3: like hey, think clearly and be reasonable and try to
39:09
Speaker 3: plan for you know, when we settle this divorce case,
39:12
Speaker 3: what your life is going to look like five or
39:13
Speaker 3: ten years from now. People are thinking like, I don't
39:15
Speaker 3: even know what I'm having for breakfast tomorrow. Well, I'm
39:17
Speaker 3: gonna be living six months from now. How how can
39:19
Speaker 3: I think clearly about that? So again, I think when
39:22
Speaker 3: you're outside of the divorce process, when there's not that pressure,
39:27
Speaker 3: do the post note just in case. It's the most
39:30
Speaker 3: cost effective thing you can do, and it will save
39:32
Speaker 3: you months, years, tens of thousands of dollars and a
39:36
Speaker 3: whole lot of aggravation and anxiety in the divorce process.
39:40
Speaker 2: What a life lesson. Well, thank you. I'm so happy.
39:45
Speaker 1: I hope this was very helpful for others because it
39:48
Speaker 1: is to me and I'm still learning even being in
39:50
Speaker 1: the middle of it, Like I learn every single day,
39:53
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I wish I knew that before and
39:55
Speaker 1: I wish there were, you know, I saw little clips
39:57
Speaker 1: on tiktoks. I would see you all the time, and
40:01
Speaker 1: that little guidance here and there can make such a
40:03
Speaker 1: big difference.
40:04
Speaker 3: So thank you, Thank you so much, Michelle, and listen,
40:07
Speaker 3: I want to I want you to appreciate and understand
40:11
Speaker 3: how valuable what you're doing is, because people who are
40:14
Speaker 3: going through it right now what I tell them on
40:17
Speaker 3: a regular basis, consume as much free content as you
40:21
Speaker 3: can about the process and what happens.
40:24
Speaker 4: And it's a magical thing when people gain.
40:26
Speaker 3: So when you go into the divorce process, there's a
40:28
Speaker 3: whole bunch of unknowns, and the anxiety comes from the unknowns.
40:33
Speaker 3: As you go through it and share what you've dealt
40:36
Speaker 3: with and share your insights, you're making some of the
40:39
Speaker 3: knowns or the unknowns for people knowns, or at least
40:43
Speaker 3: they have an idea on what they can expect, and
40:45
Speaker 3: that information brings down their anxiety and gives them calm.
40:51
Speaker 3: And calm is what people need more than anything else when.
40:54
Speaker 4: They're going through the divorce process. So thank you for
40:56
Speaker 4: what you do. Keep doing it.
40:58
Speaker 2: Thank you.
40:58
Speaker 1: And I've also never been anxious person, and it's the
41:01
Speaker 1: first time that. There are times I'm reviewing emails, I'm like,
41:05
Speaker 1: I have anxiety, Like anxiety is a real thing.
41:10
Speaker 4: And you can feel it in your chest.
41:11
Speaker 1: It's like yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, I'm starting to
41:15
Speaker 1: breathe better and good. I'm still in the middle of it,
41:19
Speaker 1: but hopefully one day that will be in the past
41:21
Speaker 1: and I can move to the future. And lastly, I think,
41:26
Speaker 1: you know, when people get divorced, what is that rate
41:30
Speaker 1: of redivorce? Because I still believe in marriage. I still
41:33
Speaker 1: want to get married in the future one day.
41:36
Speaker 4: I think.
41:38
Speaker 3: I think the one statistic we haven't come up with
41:41
Speaker 3: is what's the divorce rate for remarriage for people who
41:46
Speaker 3: take the time to heal, who take the time to
41:49
Speaker 3: unpack the baggage left.
41:51
Speaker 4: Over from their first marriage.
41:52
Speaker 3: I think we don't really have a reliable statistic on
41:55
Speaker 3: that yet, but I think ultimately someday we will. The
41:58
Speaker 3: second marriage rate is higher than the first marriage, right,
42:01
Speaker 3: and it goes up from there. So first marriage little
42:04
Speaker 3: over fifty percent, second marriage a little over sixty percent,
42:07
Speaker 3: third marriage like seventy something percent. It's and it's in
42:09
Speaker 3: large part because when people lead their first marriage 're
42:13
Speaker 3: going into a second or a third one to fill
42:15
Speaker 3: a void, and they shouldn't be trying to fill the
42:18
Speaker 3: void with another person. They should be trying to fill
42:22
Speaker 3: the void with their new sense of self. Yeah, and
42:26
Speaker 3: I think if you unpack everything from your first relationship,
42:30
Speaker 3: work on being the best you you can be, you'll
42:33
Speaker 3: be in a situation where that void is filled by
42:36
Speaker 3: a greater.
42:37
Speaker 4: You, and then you will attract the right partner.
42:40
Speaker 3: And those marriages, I think are the ones that are
42:42
Speaker 3: going to last.
42:43
Speaker 1: Perfectly said, all right, having to thank you, good to
42:47
Speaker 1: talk with you, Michelle, have a great take you too
42:49
Speaker 1: if they care. Bye.