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Cheap Seats · The Schmidt Show PDX

0:14
SPEAKER_02: Welcome back.
0:15
SPEAKER_02: My name is Mike Schmidt, former district attorney turned podcaster.
0:18
SPEAKER_02: Very excited for our conversation today.
0:20
SPEAKER_02: We are talking Portland basketball.
0:23
There's a new owner in Rip City and he did not waste any time
0:27
making his presence felt.
0:28
SPEAKER_02: Tom Dundon, billionaire, now holds the keys to the Trailblazers.
0:32
And almost immediately,
0:33
the conversation has shifted from basketball to money.
0:37
SPEAKER_02: Not his money, by the way, yours.
0:40
SPEAKER_02: Because now the ask is on the table.
0:42
SPEAKER_02: Public dollars to help fund a fully renovated new stadium.
0:46
SPEAKER_02: That's part of his resume.
1:01
the team,
1:01
reports are already surfacing about cost cutting inside the
1:04
organization.
1:05
SPEAKER_02: So here's the tension.
1:07
SPEAKER_02: We love our Blazers.
1:08
SPEAKER_02: This team matters to this community.
1:10
SPEAKER_02: But does that mean we write a check to a billionaire?
1:13
Do we dip into scarce taxpayer dollars at a time when there are
1:16
real pressing needs
1:17
SPEAKER_02: to subsidize a private investment?
1:20
SPEAKER_02: Today, we're digging into that question head on.
1:22
SPEAKER_02: My guest is Jonathan Palvers from RipCityNotRipOff.com.
1:27
We're going to debate whether this is a deal worth making or a
1:29
line the city shouldn't cross.
1:31
SPEAKER_02: And I'll say this up front.
1:32
SPEAKER_02: If you're on the other side of this debate,
1:34
SPEAKER_02: if you think that this deal makes sense,
1:36
SPEAKER_02: I want to hear from you.
1:37
SPEAKER_02: The invitation's open.
1:39
SPEAKER_02: Let's get into it.
1:47
SPEAKER_02: All right.
1:48
SPEAKER_02: My guest today is a lifelong Portlander,
1:52
SPEAKER_02: a hardcore Blazers fan and second command of the Portland Civic Lab.
1:59
SPEAKER_02: My friend Jonathan Pulvers.
2:01
SPEAKER_02: How's it going, Mike?
2:01
SPEAKER_02: It's good to see you.
2:02
SPEAKER_02: Good to see you, man.
2:03
SPEAKER_02: Good to see you.
2:04
SPEAKER_02: I'm so glad you're here.
2:05
SPEAKER_02: You have been up to some stuff.
2:08
SPEAKER_01: Apparently,
2:09
SPEAKER_01: you know,
2:10
SPEAKER_01: I never knew what kind of fire this might catch,
2:13
SPEAKER_01: but it sure seems to have caught one.
2:15
SPEAKER_02: Well, I saw you.
2:16
I saw you on the TV,
2:18
the TV news the other day,
2:20
and I was like,
2:20
hey,
2:20
I know that guy.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: You know, KGW has done a bang up job.
2:24
Evan Watson over there has done a bang up job of covering this
2:26
story about Moda
2:27
Center and the new Blazers ownership and the attempt to
2:31
renovate the arena and the
2:33
SPEAKER_01: fight over public money.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: He's done as good a job as anyone.
2:36
SPEAKER_01: I want to I want to give a shout out to him.
2:37
awesome well i am excited to get into all that but really um
2:41
i'm first excited to
2:43
get into uh game three tonight man oh man uh i am so stoked i'm
2:48
going i'm taking my
2:50
six-year-old son uh that is what memories are made of it's like
2:54
thrilled out of his
2:54
mind we shelled out to sit in the nosebleed nosebleed seats
2:59
what's a nosebleed
3:00
SPEAKER_02: ticket go for
3:01
SPEAKER_01: Uh,
3:01
SPEAKER_01: we probably someone knows how to do better than I did,
3:04
SPEAKER_01: but we paid 120 a pop to sit in like one of the last rows of the arena.
3:10
SPEAKER_02: And you know what?
3:11
Your son is going to remember this the rest of his life and
3:14
it's going to be the
3:14
SPEAKER_02: best 120 a pop you ever spent.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh, that's how I'm choosing to look at.
3:19
SPEAKER_01: There's no other way to look at it.
3:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:21
You know,
3:22
one of my fondest memories of watching the Blazers was a decade
3:27
ago or so.
3:28
We literally,
3:29
I think,
3:29
had the last two seats in the arena backs against the cement
3:33
wall.
3:34
SPEAKER_02: You know, the rafters are partially blocking some review.
3:38
SPEAKER_02: They were playing the Lakers.
3:40
SPEAKER_02: And it was just it wasn't playoffs.
3:42
SPEAKER_02: It was but it was just Portland basketball.
3:45
SPEAKER_02: There was not an empty seat in the house.
3:47
SPEAKER_02: And you're playing the Lakers.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: That's a great rivalry.
3:51
I always tell my son or my friends,
3:53
you know,
3:53
he's like,
3:54
so who's our second favorite team?
3:55
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, whoever's playing the Lakers, dude.
3:58
SPEAKER_02: That's exactly right.
3:59
SPEAKER_02: That's exactly right.
4:01
SPEAKER_02: Well,
4:01
SPEAKER_02: you know,
4:02
SPEAKER_02: this will be a little bit dated,
4:03
SPEAKER_02: unfortunately,
4:04
SPEAKER_02: by the time we get this episode out early next week.
4:08
But what are your predictions so that you will be held to them
4:12
immediately upon airing of this?
4:15
SPEAKER_01: I still.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: think it's a big time uphill slog to win this series against the Spurs,
4:19
especially if as looks likely when Bunyama comes back either
4:22
tonight or on Sunday.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: He went through shoot around today,
4:26
SPEAKER_01: so things are looking,
4:27
SPEAKER_01: you know,
4:28
SPEAKER_01: pretty positive for him,
4:29
SPEAKER_01: which is great.
4:29
SPEAKER_01: You always want to play against the
4:30
SPEAKER_01: the other team's full compliment, and he's a special player.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: I think we have a really fun team,
4:37
SPEAKER_01: a really spunky team,
4:38
a team that when they play together is really dangerous to
4:42
really almost anyone.
4:45
I'm not going to get out over my skis and say that we could
4:47
take this series,
4:48
SPEAKER_01: but I think we could take it to six and get another home game,
4:53
SPEAKER_01: and Tom Dundon would have to shell out for more per diems.
4:57
SPEAKER_02: Well, we're going to get into the per diems.
4:59
SPEAKER_02: I'm glad you brought that up.
5:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:01
SPEAKER_02: All right.
5:01
SPEAKER_02: So before we do jump into the topic du jour,
5:05
the Moda Center and renovation costs and things that I think a
5:08
lot of people are
5:09
SPEAKER_02: really kind of struggling with,
5:10
SPEAKER_02: myself included.
5:13
SPEAKER_02: Who's your favorite blazer on this team?
5:17
SPEAKER_01: That is a great question.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: I will say,
5:20
SPEAKER_01: Avdia,
5:21
just the leap that he has made this year and how unstoppable he
5:25
is once he gets
5:26
SPEAKER_01: going downhill.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: I don't think he's a player without flaws.
5:30
I don't think he is the best player on a great team,
5:34
but he has shown so much.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: I guess maybe another answer would be Lillard.
5:39
SPEAKER_01: Technically, Lillard is technically fair, fair, fair.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: But I really have I've enjoyed getting to know
5:47
SPEAKER_01: Almost all of their games.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: Not you, Chris Murray, but everybody else.
5:52
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
5:54
SPEAKER_02: Chris Murray catching strays in here.
5:56
SPEAKER_02: He played some minutes down the down the stretch in game, too.
5:59
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I am aware that he plays minutes.
6:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I feel similarly.
6:03
SPEAKER_02: I was not stoked about that.
6:04
SPEAKER_02: Well, you and my six year old agree.
6:07
SPEAKER_02: Denny Abia is the man.
6:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:09
SPEAKER_02: My nine year old is a huge young Hanson fan.
6:13
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
6:13
SPEAKER_02: You know, and he's not been shook of that.
6:15
Like when we drafted him,
6:17
he was excited about he was immediately caught the hype.
6:19
I think we actually went to a preseason game and young got
6:22
significant minutes.
6:23
SPEAKER_02: And so he was into it right right away.
6:25
SPEAKER_02: The fans are really, I think, behind him.
6:28
SPEAKER_02: And then he you know, he hasn't really made much court time this season.
6:31
SPEAKER_01: You know, he's a rookie.
6:32
SPEAKER_01: He's got lots of time to develop.
6:33
SPEAKER_01: Clearly, there's a lot of raw skill to work with.
6:37
SPEAKER_01: You can see the flashes of what what,
6:39
SPEAKER_01: you know,
6:40
might be if he puts his nose to the grindstone and takes a few
6:44
years to learn.
6:46
SPEAKER_01: I certainly wouldn't give up on it.
6:48
SPEAKER_01: I don't think we just drafted him for likes in China or whatever.
6:52
SPEAKER_01: I think it's certainly a possible thing down the road.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: So credit to your son for sticking with it.
6:57
SPEAKER_02: There you go.
6:58
SPEAKER_02: Well, and I love that.
6:59
SPEAKER_02: I love that he's stuck with him.
7:00
SPEAKER_02: So I'll take my personal.
7:03
SPEAKER_02: So watching Denny this year has just been electric.
7:06
SPEAKER_02: He's been so exciting.
7:07
SPEAKER_02: I was so stoked to see a trailblazer in the all-star game again.
7:10
SPEAKER_02: Unbelievable.
7:12
SPEAKER_02: But I'm going to go with Jeremy Grant.
7:15
SPEAKER_01: OK,
7:15
SPEAKER_02: and I'm going to tell you why I'm going to go with Jeremy Grant,
7:17
SPEAKER_02: not because I think he's the best player in this iteration of the team,
7:21
SPEAKER_02: but he's from Syracuse,
7:23
SPEAKER_01: played in Syracuse.
7:24
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
7:24
SPEAKER_02: I grew up in Syracuse.
7:25
SPEAKER_02: Very important connection.
7:27
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
7:27
SPEAKER_02: Hometown connection.
7:29
SPEAKER_02: You know, Carmelo Anthony brought us a championship in 2003.
7:32
SPEAKER_02: Jeremy was not on that team, but he was on subsequent teams.
7:35
SPEAKER_02: So I've kind of followed his his career.
7:37
SPEAKER_02: So he gets the Syracuse points, but he also is.
7:41
SPEAKER_02: He seems like the coolest blazer.
7:44
SPEAKER_02: Like,
7:44
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
7:44
SPEAKER_02: cool in ways that I can't touch,
7:47
SPEAKER_02: like the way he dresses and moves and drinks coffee and goes to food.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: Like this guy is he is maybe maybe echoes of Brian Grant.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: No relation.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:02
SPEAKER_01: He is related to Horace Grant, is he not?
8:04
SPEAKER_01: Oh, is he?
8:04
SPEAKER_01: I believe he's Horace Grant's son.
8:06
SPEAKER_01: Oh, maybe Harvey Grant's son.
8:08
SPEAKER_01: I didn't know that.
8:09
SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty sure.
8:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:10
SPEAKER_01: Well, you get to fact check.
8:12
SPEAKER_02: There you go.
8:13
Well,
8:13
he's an impressive guy,
8:14
a fashion icon,
8:16
and it just seems like a really cool,
8:19
cool guy.
8:19
SPEAKER_02: All right.
8:20
SPEAKER_02: Well, all right.
8:21
SPEAKER_02: There we have it.
8:22
SPEAKER_02: I like your prediction.
8:23
SPEAKER_02: Tonight's final score is going to be.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to say Spurs one twenty three Blazers one eleven.
8:34
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I know it hurts.
8:36
SPEAKER_01: They're talented even without Wimby and they're going to be mad.
8:39
SPEAKER_01: They're going to be mad like like a hornet's nest is mad.
8:42
SPEAKER_02: All right.
8:43
SPEAKER_02: Well, I hope you're wrong and we will know in a few days.
8:46
SPEAKER_02: But I'm excited for you that you get to go to the game tonight.
8:50
Well,
8:50
let's let's get to the the the topic at hand,
8:54
why I invited you in here.
8:55
SPEAKER_02: I think what I first saw what you have been up to,
9:01
SPEAKER_02: it was not on the news,
9:03
SPEAKER_02: but it was on a website.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we have a website called Rip City, not ripoff.com.
9:10
It's a website that my colleague Edon Kralowitz started and it
9:15
really like tapped a
9:16
SPEAKER_01: vein,
9:16
SPEAKER_01: I think.
9:17
I think there were Blazers fans out there who were who were
9:20
excited about keeping
9:21
the team here and renovating Moda Center if we need to do that
9:25
to keep them here.
9:27
But not into the ill will that it would engender to spend a
9:33
bunch of good money
9:35
SPEAKER_01: after bad public money doing that.
9:38
I think that the economic proposition that stadium renovations
9:41
present is pretty weak.
9:43
There's a stack of evidence,
9:45
Stanford,
9:45
Brookings,
9:46
National Bureau of Economic Research.
9:48
SPEAKER_01: Any economist,
9:49
SPEAKER_01: left,
9:49
SPEAKER_01: right,
9:49
or center will tell you this is not a good economic development
9:52
proposition for a
9:53
SPEAKER_01: community,
9:54
SPEAKER_01: no matter what the Blazers say otherwise.
9:56
And we wanted to sort of like combine those two threads of the
9:59
love and care that
10:01
this city and this state have for the Blazers and being smart
10:06
with scarce public
10:07
SPEAKER_01: dollars.
10:08
SPEAKER_01: And it really caught fire.
10:09
I'm aware of the research,
10:12
or at least I've not read it,
10:13
but I'm aware that it exists.
10:14
And this has been a conversation that cities have been having
10:17
for a long time now,
10:19
SPEAKER_02: uh,
10:19
SPEAKER_02: that these types of investments,
10:21
SPEAKER_02: um,
10:21
SPEAKER_02: don't pay off in the long run.
10:23
SPEAKER_02: They don't create the jobs that are promised.
10:25
The jobs that are created are not high paying,
10:27
uh,
10:27
good livable wage jobs.
10:30
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so in the end, it's, it's not a good deal for public money.
10:34
At the same time,
10:35
I will just say as,
10:36
as a human being who loves this team,
10:40
and loves this city,
10:42
it would be really hard for me to envision losing the
10:48
trailblazers.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: We agree 100%,
10:51
and that's at the top of our website and at the top of every
10:54
chat I have about this
10:56
SPEAKER_01: is we need to keep the blazers here.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: And the good news is they're staying.
11:02
SPEAKER_01: And the reason they're staying is because it would cost them far,
11:06
SPEAKER_01: far more to leave than it would cost them to stay,
11:10
even if they have to negotiate with us a little bit instead of
11:14
just boss us around.
11:15
SPEAKER_02: Well, that kind of leads into another thing.
11:18
It's been interesting to see just in the two weeks that the new
11:24
owner has kind of
11:24
SPEAKER_02: emerged and is being vetted for the first time by the public.
11:29
And we're seeing all kinds of wild things coming out about what
11:34
he will and will
11:35
SPEAKER_02: not spend dollars on,
11:36
SPEAKER_02: money on.
11:37
SPEAKER_02: So it is,
11:38
SPEAKER_02: I think at the end of the day,
11:39
SPEAKER_02: at least the way he's acting,
11:42
SPEAKER_02: you got to think that if it doesn't make dollars and cents,
11:44
SPEAKER_02: then he's not going to do it.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: I thoroughly agree,
11:47
SPEAKER_01: and it's important evidence,
11:49
SPEAKER_01: and I don't say that to denigrate him personally.
11:51
SPEAKER_01: I'm not really here to do that,
11:53
SPEAKER_01: but if he were to try to leave,
11:56
it would be a relocation fee to the NBA in the neighborhood of
11:59
$400 million.
12:01
He'd have to deal with litigation from Portland and Oregon and
12:05
be in the hundreds
12:05
SPEAKER_01: of millions of dollars between legal costs and what he'd have to pay in a
12:08
SPEAKER_01: settlement.
12:09
SPEAKER_01: He
12:09
have to get back the good faith standard in the nba
12:11
constitution which says that if
12:13
we negotiate with him in good faith they they can't leave um
12:17
which we're clearly
12:18
doing um and there's nowhere for him to go there's no ready
12:22
arena anywhere else
12:22
he'd face some many of these same problems or worse any other
12:27
metro he tried to
12:27
leave for and uh not to mention you know walking away from
12:31
whatever subsidy we
12:33
SPEAKER_01: decide to give him because clearly
12:35
SPEAKER_01: you know,
12:36
SPEAKER_01: if I had my way,
12:37
SPEAKER_01: it would be zero,
12:37
SPEAKER_01: but clearly we're headed toward giving him something.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: So I think,
12:42
SPEAKER_02: yeah,
12:43
SPEAKER_02: just when you add up those numbers,
12:44
he's they're asking for $600 million to renovate the stadium is
12:48
my understanding.
12:48
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
12:49
SPEAKER_01: And we can talk about that.
12:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:50
SPEAKER_02: So so you just said 400 million relocation fee,
12:54
SPEAKER_02: hundreds of millions of dollars in litigation,
12:56
SPEAKER_02: all kinds of other things.
12:57
SPEAKER_02: So just right there,
12:58
he'd be better off paying the 600 million to renovate the
13:00
stadium himself than
13:01
SPEAKER_02: moving the team.
13:02
SPEAKER_01: He sure would.
13:03
And we actually have sort of a weird alternate plan where he
13:05
pays like one million
13:07
dollar less per year than he'd have to pay to just renovate the
13:10
thing by himself.
13:12
SPEAKER_01: One million dollars.
13:14
SPEAKER_01: And we and we call that a win for him.
13:15
SPEAKER_01: I.
13:17
SPEAKER_01: You know,
13:18
SPEAKER_01: the state has passed its bill,
13:20
which sets up something called the joint authority once the
13:23
city and the county buy
13:24
SPEAKER_01: in,
13:24
which is the entity that owns Moda Center and negotiates with
13:30
with the new
13:31
SPEAKER_01: ownership with Rip City Rising.
13:32
SPEAKER_01: We're trying to work within that framework.
13:34
All the things we are trying to do are in the realm of the
13:38
realistic and the
13:39
possible and sort of taking that and trying to get it as close
13:43
to zero net subsidy
13:45
SPEAKER_01: for this very wealthy person as we can get.
13:48
SPEAKER_02: Well,
13:48
SPEAKER_02: Jonathan,
13:49
SPEAKER_02: you're a smart guy,
13:51
SPEAKER_02: but the information that you're working with is not top secret.
13:54
SPEAKER_02: This is publicly available information.
13:56
SPEAKER_02: You're doing your homework.
13:58
SPEAKER_02: We're trying.
13:59
SPEAKER_02: You're trying to do your homework with what information you have.
14:01
So this is information that is available also to our lawmakers
14:05
and to our leaders.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: It is.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to speak for any of them.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: They have spoken for themselves.
14:12
It's certainly possible that some of them were scared by the
14:14
relocation threat.
14:17
SPEAKER_01: It's sometimes it's vibes more than it's facts.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: I don't say that to disparity.
14:21
anyone in particular i just think that sometimes the the mood
14:26
out there matters uh
14:27
which is why it's good that it seems like the mood is shifting
14:30
a little bit on this
14:31
and i think that people people fear being blamed for the
14:35
blazers leaving more than
14:37
they fear being blamed for giving away the store and insofar as
14:41
there's empirical
14:41
evidence around that it's just the opposite they should fear
14:45
being blamed for
14:45
SPEAKER_01: giving away the store
14:47
Within the first five minutes of this conversation,
14:49
we've done some quick math.
14:50
SPEAKER_02: And as you say, I mean, the NBA did approve some expansion teams.
14:54
SPEAKER_02: So those cities are off.
14:56
SPEAKER_02: Those are not available.
14:56
SPEAKER_02: They're not there.
14:57
SPEAKER_02: So there really is no place to move to.
15:00
SPEAKER_02: And also the dollars and cents doesn't make sense.
15:02
So it is baffling to see how many politicians have seemingly
15:09
run out throwing cash
15:10
SPEAKER_02: at this problem and say,
15:11
SPEAKER_02: please stay,
15:12
SPEAKER_02: please stay,
15:12
SPEAKER_02: please stay.
15:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is a little frustrating and a little baffling.
15:17
I think part of it can probably be chalked up to a six-figure
15:21
lobbying campaign
15:22
SPEAKER_01: from the Blazers and natural allies in groups like the Metro Chamber.
15:28
In the governor's office,
15:29
in the mayor's office,
15:31
the NBA league office,
15:32
for sure.
15:33
You know,
15:34
that's a lot more money and power and experience around this
15:38
than us.
15:39
SPEAKER_01: We are two guys.
15:40
We have just recently started allying with some people in
15:44
groups locally to try and
15:46
SPEAKER_01: force multiply a little bit.
15:48
SPEAKER_01: But we're two guys who have spent zero dollars on this project.
15:51
I'm just glad that we're having the conversation because for a
15:54
minute there,
15:55
SPEAKER_02: it almost felt like this was a fait accompli.
15:58
It was just going to get done and we were going to move on and
16:01
we were going to be
16:02
SPEAKER_02: told,
16:02
SPEAKER_02: yes,
16:02
SPEAKER_02: we're cutting the county budget by this much,
16:05
SPEAKER_02: the city budget by this much,
16:06
SPEAKER_02: the state budget has got a massive hole blown in it.
16:09
But we found the $600 million to help this poor billionaire out
16:13
who just needs our assistance.
16:16
SPEAKER_01: And it's actually closer to a billion dollars, believe it or not.
16:19
When you throw in the debt service on what the state money
16:23
would be and the city of
16:24
SPEAKER_01: Portland's $400 million over time,
16:27
SPEAKER_01: you're in the neighborhood of about a billion dollars of public money.
16:31
SPEAKER_02: So Jonathan,
16:32
we're not the first city to be confronted with owners that are
16:36
making threats like
16:37
SPEAKER_02: this.
16:38
SPEAKER_02: In fact,
16:38
SPEAKER_02: I have been kind of not super in depth,
16:41
SPEAKER_02: but reading the Chicago bears headlines from time to time.
16:44
SPEAKER_02: And,
16:45
SPEAKER_02: you know,
16:45
SPEAKER_02: I got to say from what I've seen,
16:46
SPEAKER_02: and again,
16:47
SPEAKER_02: I'm not following it super closely,
16:48
SPEAKER_02: but JB Pritzker,
16:50
SPEAKER_02: it seems like he has done a good job.
16:52
SPEAKER_02: I saw him come out in a press conference and say, Hey, we love our bears.
16:57
SPEAKER_02: And we're not going to let them leave.
16:58
SPEAKER_02: That's not going to happen.
17:00
SPEAKER_02: And
17:00
SPEAKER_02: you're not going to get everything you want.
17:02
SPEAKER_02: This is a negotiation and we're going to meet you good faith.
17:05
SPEAKER_02: You're going to get some, we're going to give some.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: And at bottom,
17:08
that's really what we're asking is to sit down and negotiate
17:12
seriously with the
17:13
SPEAKER_01: Blazers.
17:14
And what we've seen so far looks maybe more like partnering
17:18
with the Blazers.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: And when there's this much public money at stake in
17:22
SPEAKER_01: in an environment with massive existing and proposed cuts to schools,
17:28
SPEAKER_01: healthcare,
17:29
SPEAKER_01: SNAP,
17:30
SPEAKER_01: you name it,
17:31
SPEAKER_01: both cuts at the federal level,
17:34
SPEAKER_01: lower revenues at the state level,
17:35
SPEAKER_01: lower revenues at the city level.
17:37
It's very difficult to justify this kind of an outlay for
17:41
people who do fine for themselves.
17:43
SPEAKER_01: Right.
17:43
SPEAKER_01: Owning an NBA team is a winning economic proposition.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: These guys are going to make money.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: They're going to make plenty of money.
17:50
SPEAKER_01: And all we're asking for.
17:52
folks to do is to sit down and cut a market rate deal that is
17:56
like other deals that
17:57
have been done in other places with these guys and if we get
18:01
our way that's you
18:02
know hundreds of millions of dollars back to the public
18:05
compared to the course that
18:06
is being set now as you've researched uh deals like this across
18:10
the country have
18:11
you ever seen a deal uh like the one that is being proposed by
18:15
the blazers by uh
18:17
SPEAKER_02: dundon in this situation
18:19
SPEAKER_01: No.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: Basically,
18:22
SPEAKER_01: most other stadium deals,
18:24
SPEAKER_01: whether renovations or rebuilds,
18:26
SPEAKER_01: have significant public benefits that come in a variety of ways.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: And really,
18:33
we're concerned about the bottom dollar figure for how much
18:37
money are we going to
18:38
SPEAKER_01: get back here.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: But there's lots of creative ways that you can do that.
18:42
SPEAKER_01: The least creative is to just say, hey, ownership, pony up.
18:45
SPEAKER_01: Let's get some private capital.
18:46
SPEAKER_02: Pay us some rent or something.
18:47
SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, or an initial capital contribution.
18:49
SPEAKER_01: Rent is second.
18:51
SPEAKER_01: The naming rights on the building we own, the public owns Moda Center.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: We bought it for $1 because it's a liability, not an asset.
18:59
And so the naming rights should accrue at least in part and
19:03
maybe in whole to us.
19:06
SPEAKER_01: We should be asking for a longer lease, et cetera.
19:08
SPEAKER_02: Maybe Rip City Not Rip Off should buy the naming rights to Moda Center.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: All right.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: Continue.
19:15
SPEAKER_01: I like that idea.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: I will float it up the up the chain of command.
19:18
SPEAKER_01: See what you can do.
19:20
SPEAKER_01: We want them to sign a longer lease.
19:21
SPEAKER_01: The industry standard is 30 years there.
19:23
SPEAKER_01: They've proposed in the state bills framework 20.
19:26
SPEAKER_01: We want there to be more more severe.
19:29
penalties if they relocate during that time right now they just
19:32
have to pay back
19:33
the outstanding bond debt but they don't have to repay back the
19:37
initial money that
19:38
we put in or any kind of punitive penalty we're asking for
19:42
what's called pilot
19:43
taxes which is a payment in lieu of tax it's an acronym it's
19:47
what you do when you
19:48
the public owns a building so there's no property taxes but
19:51
there's a private
19:52
SPEAKER_01: lessee
19:53
SPEAKER_01: We do it at the airport.
19:54
SPEAKER_01: Other stadiums do it.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: None of these things are crazy.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: All of them have been done elsewhere.
19:58
SPEAKER_01: Community benefits for the surrounding neighborhood,
20:01
SPEAKER_01: for our schools,
20:02
SPEAKER_01: for our community writ broadly.
20:04
SPEAKER_01: I think that's a really important piece that that we.
20:07
get back and then other people you know talking about uh street
20:11
pricing in the
20:12
arena i love that idea i love street pricing uh free trimet to
20:16
and from the arena i
20:17
think they should have to do something about their bike parking
20:20
which sucks and
20:20
SPEAKER_01: then of course i don't want to leave out our friends in labor uh who want
20:24
reasonable payants and standards for doing this renovation and
20:28
for working at moda
20:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
20:30
SPEAKER_02: So,
20:31
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
20:32
SPEAKER_02: if let's just say we were to take this deal,
20:34
SPEAKER_02: it'd be the worst deal ever negotiated by any city ever.
20:38
SPEAKER_01: The worst.
20:39
SPEAKER_01: We've looked at 16 deals that were done in the past 10 or 15 years.
20:43
SPEAKER_01: Some of them are totally privately funded, but all of them have some...
20:47
Public clawback and all of the things I named are in various
20:52
quantities in all of those deals.
20:54
The one possible exception is the Memphis Grizzlies that's
20:57
being negotiated right now.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: It's a little unclear what's going in there.
21:00
SPEAKER_01: So I'm withholding judgment.
21:02
SPEAKER_02: So what's fascinating to me is as we have kind of established already,
21:08
SPEAKER_02: you know,
21:09
SPEAKER_02: this this deal has to ultimately be signed off on by our leaders,
21:13
SPEAKER_02: our elected officials,
21:15
and they are responsive to their constituents and they are
21:20
looking at the politics
21:21
SPEAKER_02: of this.
21:23
Even those that,
21:24
you know,
21:24
of course,
21:25
love the Blazers and want to keep them.
21:26
And no matter what,
21:27
they still have to worry about the political consequences.
21:31
SPEAKER_02: And I'm seeing some things,
21:34
SPEAKER_02: you know,
21:34
SPEAKER_02: different ones have come out and taken different positions.
21:37
What do you make of this NDA requirement that has popped into
21:42
the media for at
21:43
SPEAKER_02: least a couple of our city elected officials recently?
21:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
21:46
so you're referring to Councilors Green and Koyama Lane
21:48
refusing to sign an NDA in
21:50
order to be part of a working group that hashes this out at the
21:54
city council.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: I certainly understand their concern.
21:57
SPEAKER_01: I respect it.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: I agree with it.
21:59
SPEAKER_01: And I don't object to them directly.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: going public and naming it.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: Frankly,
22:05
we really wish that Mitch and Tiffany were on that working
22:09
group because we have
22:10
spoken to both of them and they have really good values around
22:13
this and are ready
22:14
SPEAKER_01: to watchdog this project and
22:17
SPEAKER_01: And that was the bird in the hand.
22:19
We don't know what that working group is going to look like if
22:21
it doesn't have them on it.
22:23
So I'm hopeful that the city council can find a way to resolve
22:26
their concerns
22:28
SPEAKER_01: satisfactorily and keep them in the loop.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: And also,
22:31
SPEAKER_01: if they have to bring a whole new set of counselors on to do this,
22:34
I think you may run into public meetings law problems with the
22:37
number of counselors
22:38
SPEAKER_01: that have now been involved.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: And I don't want them to run into that either.
22:43
SPEAKER_02: These are public dollars.
22:45
These are real trade-offs,
22:47
real decisions that are going to impact this community.
22:49
And the idea that those conversations could be locked up behind
22:53
an NDA and not
22:55
SPEAKER_02: discussed with constituents just seems offensive to me,
22:58
SPEAKER_02: quite frankly.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't think that that's appropriate.
23:02
SPEAKER_01: It's a little murky what the NDA would or would not have covered.
23:08
Folks are saying it's the Blazers' proprietary business
23:10
information that they're
23:11
SPEAKER_01: sharing with the city.
23:12
SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's the Coca-Cola recipe?
23:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, something.
23:15
SPEAKER_01: You know, a concessionaire contract or whatever.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: And, you know...
23:20
SPEAKER_01: I don't mind.
23:21
SPEAKER_01: I think the law should operate normally, right?
23:23
Whatever the law should normally protect in that instance,
23:26
it should still protect.
23:27
And beyond that,
23:28
it shouldn't there should not be an extra Blazers protection
23:31
for it.
23:31
SPEAKER_02: Well,
23:32
and I bring this up because I feel like this is one example of
23:36
a string of recent
23:38
examples that are maybe souring the public a little bit on this
23:44
ownership group.
23:46
SPEAKER_02: So before I get into some of those other decisions,
23:49
SPEAKER_02: uh,
23:49
SPEAKER_02: that have been made and I think are a little inexplicable,
23:51
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
23:52
SPEAKER_02: honestly,
23:52
SPEAKER_02: like if this was a,
23:54
SPEAKER_02: if this was a relationship,
23:55
SPEAKER_02: if,
23:55
SPEAKER_02: if we were dating,
23:56
SPEAKER_02: right.
23:57
And that's what this was,
23:58
this should be the love bomb phase of the relationship,
24:00
right?
24:01
SPEAKER_01: Where we're getting the free t-shirts for game three and four were,
24:05
SPEAKER_02: you know,
24:06
SPEAKER_02: you're not hearing crazy stories about,
24:08
SPEAKER_02: uh,
24:08
SPEAKER_02: Team,
24:09
SPEAKER_02: you know,
24:09
SPEAKER_02: two way players not getting travel with the team,
24:12
SPEAKER_02: you know,
24:12
SPEAKER_02: masseuse not having rooms,
24:14
SPEAKER_02: all the different things coming out.
24:15
SPEAKER_02: This should be the love bomb era, not the this is who I am era.
24:20
SPEAKER_02: So it's weird to me that they have spent so much money on lobbyists,
24:25
but the public management of their reputation seems not to be
24:30
being managed very
24:31
SPEAKER_02: well right now.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: No, not at all.
24:33
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, the it's the old ownership that paid for the lobbyists.
24:36
The old ownership was a little bit more profligated because
24:39
they were spending Mr.
24:40
SPEAKER_01: Allen's money.
24:41
SPEAKER_01: These guys are tight.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: for sure.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not trying to character assassinate them necessarily.
24:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm willing to give some benefit of the doubt.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: Surely the outcry will grow if this stuff keeps showing up.
24:56
I think owning an NBA team that where people are accustomed to
25:00
a certain level of
25:01
SPEAKER_01: treatment may take some getting used to for Mr.
25:03
SPEAKER_01: Dundon.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: I did see John Hollinger,
25:05
SPEAKER_01: who's a major NBA writer,
25:07
posted a tweet listing like a Greyhound bus schedule for the
25:10
Blazers to get back
25:11
SPEAKER_01: from San Antonio.
25:12
SPEAKER_01: Just in time for their game.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: Thank God.
25:15
So the joke has definitely like caught on around the league and
25:19
we're taking note
25:19
SPEAKER_01: of it,
25:20
SPEAKER_01: but it wasn't central to our strategy before.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: It's not central now.
25:24
We're we're focused on getting the best deal for the public
25:28
with the counterpart
25:30
SPEAKER_01: that's in the room.
25:31
SPEAKER_02: As a Blazer fan,
25:32
I was paying attention and I had heard some things about this
25:35
ownership group and
25:36
SPEAKER_02: especially Tom Dundon.
25:37
SPEAKER_02: You know, I was like, oh, that's that's concerning.
25:39
SPEAKER_02: But, you know, I was kind of like, well, new owner.
25:41
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'll tell you the undercover thing is his co-owner, Mark Saar.
25:45
SPEAKER_01: His co-owner Mark Saar owns something called Blue Owl Capital,
25:48
SPEAKER_01: which is a capital firm based in New York.
25:50
SPEAKER_01: And about two ish months ago,
25:53
SPEAKER_01: that capital firm sold a warehouse in Schoolkill County,
25:57
SPEAKER_01: Pennsylvania to ICE.
25:59
you can read about it in the new york times and on pennsylvania
26:01
local news and um
26:04
you know i think portlanders would it would be fair of them to
26:08
be wary of uh you
26:11
know doing straight business with someone who uh who would not
26:14
have any compunction
26:15
about doing that yeah that that does not align with uh our
26:20
values here in this
26:21
SPEAKER_02: community
26:22
SPEAKER_01: I should say not.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
26:24
SPEAKER_01: sure,
26:24
SPEAKER_01: our values here in this community,
26:25
SPEAKER_01: my values,
26:26
SPEAKER_01: I would say there couldn't be further misaligned with that.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: So.
26:32
SPEAKER_02: Well, and then tell me a little bit.
26:33
SPEAKER_02: I mean, obviously, you've done research throughout this process.
26:38
SPEAKER_02: I did some research in preparation for this interview.
26:40
SPEAKER_02: I saw that Tom Dunnan himself,
26:42
SPEAKER_02: you know,
26:43
SPEAKER_02: he has been sued by our own attorney general and successfully.
26:47
SPEAKER_01: Sure has.
26:47
And,
26:48
you know,
26:48
it's a subprime auto lending,
26:50
which is,
26:50
I think,
26:51
probably a line of business.
26:52
If you do enough of it,
26:53
it's probably lends itself to being sued successfully.
26:57
And,
26:58
you know,
26:58
I don't I don't have any great insight into that more than has
27:02
been reported.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: Excellent reporting by ProPublica and the and the OPB.
27:08
SPEAKER_01: And again,
27:11
SPEAKER_01: we're trying to focus on what we're trying to get here,
27:13
SPEAKER_01: which is money back for the public on this project.
27:16
And I think I think people can take into account what kind of
27:20
business Tom Dundon does.
27:22
SPEAKER_01: as part of that effort.
27:25
SPEAKER_02: It's concerning, right?
27:26
SPEAKER_02: So these predatory lending type schemes where it's like,
27:29
SPEAKER_02: just give them the loan,
27:30
SPEAKER_02: give them the loan,
27:30
SPEAKER_02: even if they're most likely to default and give them the loan anyway,
27:32
SPEAKER_02: we're going to make money off this.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's not.
27:35
It's certainly not the way I was taught to think about how you
27:40
treat other people,
27:41
SPEAKER_01: even in a commercial setting.
27:45
SPEAKER_01: I again, you know, it I understand that it's been a story out there.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: I am not I
27:52
salute the people who've reported on it it hasn't been our
27:54
focus our focus has been
27:56
on the economics of this deal all right so let's get back to
27:59
that yeah uh let's say
28:01
you jonathan and i nominate you for this as tribute oh crap uh
28:05
you are representing
28:07
SPEAKER_01: us at the negotiating table what you've made a huge mistake
28:11
SPEAKER_02: I don't think so.
28:11
SPEAKER_02: I don't think so.
28:13
SPEAKER_02: What looks like a win-win?
28:15
SPEAKER_02: How do we get out of this where we keep our beloved team?
28:21
SPEAKER_02: We feel good about the public.
28:24
SPEAKER_02: I think there will be public investment.
28:25
We feel good about whatever amount of investment that is and
28:29
what we're getting back for it.
28:30
SPEAKER_02: What looks like a W to you?
28:32
SPEAKER_01: Well,
28:32
SPEAKER_01: you know,
28:32
I had an illuminating conversation the other day with Council
28:36
President Dunphy,
28:37
and he was talking about seeing the renovation in a little bit
28:42
of a bifurcated way.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: Are we renovating so that Taylor Swift will stop here?
28:47
SPEAKER_01: that might be a useful thing to do.
28:50
SPEAKER_01: And so if we're dealing with the rigging in the ceiling or the HVAC,
28:54
SPEAKER_01: that kind of sounds like solving for that problem.
28:57
If we're dealing with luxury seats for the Blazers,
29:00
that sounds like the Blazers problem.
29:03
SPEAKER_01: And so if we are in fact going to put in public money,
29:07
SPEAKER_01: and again,
29:08
SPEAKER_01: I'd be thrilled if we didn't,
29:10
SPEAKER_01: but if we are going to put in public money,
29:12
SPEAKER_01: if we can say,
29:14
It's going to X or Y and X or Y is going to make this arena
29:18
palatable to major
29:20
SPEAKER_01: national and international acts.
29:22
I think that that would be easier to sell the public on than
29:26
subsidizing the
29:27
SPEAKER_01: specific needs of the team,
29:30
SPEAKER_01: which has a wealthy ownership that can can pay for its own way.
29:35
SPEAKER_02: Well,
29:36
SPEAKER_02: if we get to this point and we're renovating the stadium,
29:38
I sure hope they choose the same group that renovated our Port
29:41
of Portland.
29:42
SPEAKER_02: I love our new airport.
29:44
SPEAKER_01: The airport is nice.
29:46
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know who they're they're choosing one.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: You know,
29:49
one thing that's been shrouded in a little bit of mystery is
29:52
where the six hundred
29:53
SPEAKER_01: million dollar came number came from.
29:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:56
We understand from city officials that they have done a study
30:00
that might show a lower number.
30:02
uh comparable arena renovations have been lower numbers in
30:06
recent years in the
30:07
hundred and like a hundred million 150 million some of them
30:11
have been that low
30:11
there's only one that's 800 million and it's more like a
30:14
rebuild than a than a
30:15
renovation so everything else is lower and uh i think before we
30:21
put in 600 million
30:22
SPEAKER_01: or say you know above 600 million the blazers will cover cost overruns
30:26
SPEAKER_01: We should figure out what that number actually is.
30:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:30
And and make sure the Blazers are on the hook for cost overruns
30:33
over that number.
30:34
And that decreases the amount that the city and the county have
30:37
to put in it over
30:39
SPEAKER_01: and above what the state has bonded for.
30:42
SPEAKER_02: Well, I mentioned I love the the street pricing as one thing of it.
30:48
SPEAKER_02: What would you like to get out of this?
30:50
SPEAKER_02: What would be the concession that you want to to get?
30:54
SPEAKER_01: For us,
30:54
our number one ask is just a plain old infusion of private
30:58
capital into the deal so
31:00
SPEAKER_01: that there is less public outlay.
31:03
SPEAKER_01: That's really the simplest thing.
31:05
SPEAKER_01: All these other things that I mentioned,
31:07
there are ways to sort of nickel and dime the ownership and get
31:11
closer to that zero
31:12
SPEAKER_01: dollar subsidy number.
31:14
But if you were saying you get one thing and you don't get the
31:16
rest of the things,
31:18
SPEAKER_01: it would be an outlay of at least one hundred fifty million dollars,
31:21
SPEAKER_01: hopefully more from the Blazers ownership.
31:24
And then that's money that goes right back into Oregonians
31:26
pockets to pay for their
31:27
SPEAKER_01: schools,
31:28
SPEAKER_01: pay for their health care,
31:29
SPEAKER_01: pay for their roads.
31:31
SPEAKER_02: 150 seems like pocket change compared to 4.25.
31:35
SPEAKER_01: It sure does.
31:36
SPEAKER_01: And I think that they can afford it between the many of them.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
31:40
SPEAKER_01: and if you're worried about that,
31:42
you can always go to Panda Express and buy some chicken and
31:45
that will accrue
31:46
SPEAKER_01: directly to the ownership.
31:48
SPEAKER_01: I would also say that like.
31:50
If there were some kind of private fund to renovate Moda Center
31:55
or keep the Blazers
31:56
SPEAKER_01: here or whatever,
31:57
SPEAKER_01: I would contribute to that fund.
31:59
SPEAKER_01: Like, I think it's important to keep them here.
32:02
It is a thing that matters to me personally,
32:04
and I think matters to this city.
32:07
SPEAKER_01: Public dollar is just a very different standard, right?
32:10
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: 100%.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:12
SPEAKER_02: Well, Jonathan, thank you so much for talking to me about this.
32:15
SPEAKER_02: Where should people follow you on social media?
32:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, at rip city, not rip off on blue sky.
32:20
SPEAKER_01: And we, uh, that's about it.
32:22
SPEAKER_01: We are working on growing a social media presence.
32:25
Um,
32:25
the only other place that you can see a lot of our content is
32:29
on Reddit.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: And,
32:30
SPEAKER_01: uh,
32:30
SPEAKER_01: we are,
32:32
SPEAKER_01: like I said,
32:32
SPEAKER_01: I would say that's the,
32:34
one of the deficiencies of being a two man operation with zero
32:37
dollars is that we
32:37
SPEAKER_01: just have not grown that the way we would want.
32:39
SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you, uh, for your community service in this regard.
32:44
I really appreciate you having me on,
32:45
Mike,
32:46
and thank you for everything that you do,
32:47
man.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you.
32:49
SPEAKER_02: Well,
32:49
SPEAKER_02: because you've listened to this show before,
32:51
SPEAKER_02: you might be expecting and you should be expecting a silly,
32:55
SPEAKER_02: fun little game that I thought we could play.
32:57
SPEAKER_01: All right.
32:59
SPEAKER_02: And it's called Wood Dundon Cut It.
33:04
SPEAKER_01: OK,
33:04
SPEAKER_02: so these are not real scenarios,
33:06
but you are going to say whether or not you think he would
33:10
slash it or keep it.
33:12
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
33:12
SPEAKER_02: Understand the rules?
33:13
SPEAKER_01: I understand.
33:14
SPEAKER_02: It's pretty straightforward.
33:16
SPEAKER_02: All right.
33:16
SPEAKER_02: Here we go, Jonathan.
33:18
SPEAKER_02: Number one, Blaze the Trail Cats 12 outfit rotation.
33:22
SPEAKER_02: It costs $8,400 a year.
33:24
SPEAKER_02: He has outfits for every occasion,
33:25
SPEAKER_02: a tuxedo for formal nights,
33:27
SPEAKER_02: rain slicker for outdoor appearances,
33:29
SPEAKER_02: holiday sweater,
33:30
SPEAKER_02: retro throwbacks.
33:31
SPEAKER_02: What do you think?
33:32
SPEAKER_02: Tom Dunn, is he keeping the wardrobe costs or is he slashing it?
33:36
SPEAKER_01: So not only do I think he would slash it,
33:38
I think he may actually be the right person to solve our two
33:42
mascot problem.
33:43
SPEAKER_01: Why do we have two mascots?
33:45
SPEAKER_01: I don't understand.
33:46
SPEAKER_01: I don't get it.
33:47
SPEAKER_01: We should have one and that one should have fewer than 12 outfits.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: So not only will he slash it, he should slash it.
33:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm on team Dunn in here.
33:55
SPEAKER_02: Holy smokes.
33:56
SPEAKER_02: All right.
33:56
SPEAKER_02: Well, we agree.
33:57
SPEAKER_02: I think we think he would slash it, but I appreciate that take.
34:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I sometimes have trouble even naming the other mascots.
34:06
Douglas fir that's my understanding okay that's my
34:08
understanding all right good
34:10
well number two uh half court shot cash prize ten thousand
34:14
dollars per make one
34:15
lucky fan is selected at random gets to heave a shot from half
34:19
court at halftime
34:19
does he keep it or slash it um I think he keeps it but it's ten
34:23
thousand dollars
34:24
toward a subprime car loan but but you also get into this Kia
34:29
that you still owe us
34:29
SPEAKER_02: money on yes
34:33
SPEAKER_02: All right.
34:33
SPEAKER_02: I like it.
34:34
SPEAKER_02: Post game media cookie tray.
34:36
SPEAKER_02: These cost $45 a game.
34:38
SPEAKER_02: It's a tray of assorted cookies,
34:39
SPEAKER_02: chocolate chip,
34:40
SPEAKER_02: oatmeal,
34:40
SPEAKER_02: raisin,
34:40
and an occasional snickerdoodle set out for reporters in the
34:44
green room after the
34:45
SPEAKER_02: game.
34:45
SPEAKER_02: So you keep that or slash it?
34:46
SPEAKER_01: So the snickerdoodles are gone.
34:47
SPEAKER_01: Do you have another option?
34:51
Like,
34:52
what if a reporter has a dietary restriction of some kind that
34:56
you have to cater to?
34:57
SPEAKER_01: I don't know how willing Dundon would be to do that.
35:00
I think I have to overall go with slash,
35:02
although I couldn't say exactly how far.
35:05
SPEAKER_02: All right.
35:06
SPEAKER_02: Sorry, journalists.
35:06
SPEAKER_02: Bring your own snacks next time.
35:09
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
35:10
SPEAKER_02: All right.
35:11
SPEAKER_02: Player intro pyrotechnics and fog machine.
35:15
These cost $12,000 per game to set them up and then discharge
35:20
them and all the
35:20
SPEAKER_02: permits and everything else.
35:22
SPEAKER_02: They're super cool.
35:23
SPEAKER_02: I really kind of enjoy that part of things.
35:26
SPEAKER_02: What do you think?
35:27
SPEAKER_02: The fog rolls in, the lights drop, the flames shoot up.
35:30
SPEAKER_02: Tom Dundon.
35:31
SPEAKER_01: I feel like they've been slashing this in recent years anyway.
35:35
Like,
35:35
I feel like the games I've been going to have been much less
35:37
elaborate in this regard.
35:40
SPEAKER_01: Could he slash it further?
35:42
SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
35:43
I actually would be OK with like a really slimmed down but
35:46
well-loved introduction.
35:48
SPEAKER_01: I don't think it has to be a monster truck rally.
35:52
Something that hypes up the fans without all the,
35:56
you know,
35:56
without all the bells and whistles.
35:58
SPEAKER_01: So, A, he can and B, he should.
36:01
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
36:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:02
You know,
36:03
surprisingly,
36:03
you guys are not you're not far apart on some things.
36:06
SPEAKER_01: I've been known to be thrifty here or there in virtue in arena.
36:10
DJ stage lighting rig $800 per game so that our DJs look cool
36:17
and not just like a
36:18
SPEAKER_02: regular person standing behind a record player and a laptop.
36:21
SPEAKER_02: Does he keep the lights or does he say, hey, sorry, DJ?
36:26
I think he makes the DJ hold his own like it's a flashlight and
36:31
he's just like
36:31
SPEAKER_02: covering it with his hand off and on.
36:34
It's going to be DJ OG holding a flashlight and just holding
36:39
one flat spinning it
36:40
SPEAKER_02: around in the crowd.
36:41
SPEAKER_02: All right.
36:41
SPEAKER_02: Sorry, DJ.
36:43
SPEAKER_02: Let's see.
36:44
SPEAKER_02: I'll do a couple more of these complimentary postcards.
36:49
SPEAKER_02: game water for visiting teams.
36:51
SPEAKER_02: I mean, they drink a lot.
36:53
SPEAKER_02: This is going to cost over $100 a game just to let these folks drink,
36:57
SPEAKER_02: especially bottled water in the visiting locker room.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: We got great tap water.
37:02
SPEAKER_01: Is there a problem with the tap water?
37:04
SPEAKER_01: Make the tap water cold somehow as cheap as you can.
37:08
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, that bottled water is like is a total rip off anyway.
37:13
SPEAKER_02: And it's bad for the environment.
37:15
SPEAKER_01: It's terrible for the environment.
37:16
SPEAKER_02: So there we go.
37:17
SPEAKER_01: Although shout out to chess club.
37:18
SPEAKER_01: That is good water.
37:20
SPEAKER_01: If you go there in Northwest.
37:21
SPEAKER_02: Ah, well, there you go.
37:22
SPEAKER_02: Shout out to chess club.
37:25
SPEAKER_02: Uh, let's see.
37:26
SPEAKER_02: Uh, we are going to go with, um, blaze the trail cats.
37:29
SPEAKER_02: We're picking on blaze tonight.
37:30
SPEAKER_02: His personal trainer,
37:32
SPEAKER_02: uh,
37:33
SPEAKER_02: you know,
37:33
this guy for $4,000 a month keeps blaze high energy and in
37:37
condition for his
37:38
SPEAKER_02: appearances,
37:39
SPEAKER_02: jumping,
37:39
SPEAKER_02: dancing,
37:40
SPEAKER_02: crowd surfing,
37:40
SPEAKER_02: the whole routine without the training,
37:42
SPEAKER_02: you know,
37:43
SPEAKER_02: blaze could pull a hammy.
37:44
SPEAKER_02: What do you think?
37:45
SPEAKER_01: I think that that could be DIY.
37:47
I think Blaze the trail cat could could do some potentially
37:51
some telehealth
37:52
SPEAKER_01: training,
37:53
SPEAKER_01: but maybe training himself.
37:55
SPEAKER_01: Cut, cut.
37:56
SPEAKER_01: Oh, man, I'm landing on cut almost all the I, you know.
38:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but you're but you're agreeing.
38:02
SPEAKER_02: You think it's a good thing.
38:03
SPEAKER_01: It's well, I don't know if I agree with that one.
38:05
SPEAKER_01: I think he could pull a hammy.
38:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, see, there you go.
38:08
SPEAKER_02: All right.
38:08
SPEAKER_02: This one's going to hurt.
38:10
SPEAKER_02: Annual bobblehead giveaway night.
38:12
$48,000 for this event so that bobbleheads hand out for the
38:16
first $10,000 through the doors.
38:19
SPEAKER_02: I have two Dame Lillard bobbleheads on my mantle at home.
38:23
SPEAKER_02: I would be devastated if I had never received one.
38:26
SPEAKER_02: What do you think, Tom Dunn?
38:27
SPEAKER_02: Is he going to keep giving out bobbleheads?
38:30
SPEAKER_01: He should not cut them, but he will.
38:32
And I think we already I went to the last regular season game
38:36
against Sacramento.
38:37
SPEAKER_01: It was fan appreciation night.
38:39
And what that consisted of was the first 10,000 people in the
38:41
door got a flimsy
38:43
SPEAKER_01: little pennant that said Columbia Bank.
38:45
SPEAKER_01: And it said Rip City Runs Deep.
38:48
SPEAKER_01: Didn't have any real like Trailblazers logo or branding.
38:51
SPEAKER_01: And I was like,
38:52
that was my first inkling that of this situation that we've now
38:56
found ourselves in.
38:58
SPEAKER_02: Oh, that is brutal.
39:00
SPEAKER_02: Well, you perfect score on the game.
39:03
SPEAKER_02: Congratulations.
39:04
SPEAKER_02: You won.
39:05
SPEAKER_01: It's like the wait, wait, don't tell me game.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: You can't lose.
39:09
SPEAKER_02: It would be hard to lose.
39:10
I could make that call,
39:11
though,
39:11
but you won because I appreciated your rationale.
39:15
SPEAKER_02: I got to say, go Blazers.
39:17
SPEAKER_02: I'm really excited to watch the game tonight.
39:19
SPEAKER_01: City, baby.
39:20
SPEAKER_02: Excited for you to be there with your son.
39:22
SPEAKER_02: That is what this is all about.
39:24
I think I'm going to roll up on my cargo bike,
39:26
blasting bust a bucket and see what.
39:28
SPEAKER_02: Hey, there we go.
39:30
SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
39:31
SPEAKER_02: All right, Jonathan Palvers.
39:32
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for being on the pod.
39:33
SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for having me.
39:42
SPEAKER_02: All right.
39:43
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's our show for today.
39:44
Special thanks to my guest,
39:45
Jonathan Pulvers,
39:46
for coming on and not ducking the hard questions.
39:49
SPEAKER_02: You can find us on Substack.
39:51
SPEAKER_02: And if you're getting value out of this work,
39:52
consider joining the subscribers who chip in a few bucks each
39:55
month to help keep
39:56
SPEAKER_02: the mics on.
39:57
It's what allows us to stay independent and keep having these
39:59
conversations without
40:00
SPEAKER_02: pulling any punches.
40:02
SPEAKER_02: If this episode got you thinking, don't keep it to yourself.
40:05
Follow the show,
40:05
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40:08
SPEAKER_02: It makes a real difference in getting this in front of more people.
40:12
SPEAKER_02: Hey, go Blazers.
40:14
SPEAKER_02: We'll see you next time.