Latest / The Speak Life Podcast / Oppression Means Opportunity || Interview Cedo Ralevic || SLP 345

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Oppression Means Opportunity || Interview Cedo Ralevic || SLP 345 · The Speak Life Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to the Speak Life Podcast.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Glenn Scrivener.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: So glad to have your company.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Today we've got a real treat.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: I speak to Cheto Relovic, a church planter and theological educator in Serbia.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: He grew up in the former Yugoslavia, born in 1949 in Tito's Yugoslavia.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: And he has lived much of his life under communist rule.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: And he has spent much of his ministerial life, ministry, under communist rule in an officially atheistic states.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: But he has tremendous stories to share with us about how he not only survived, but also thrived under those contexts.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Shadow's story is so important for us to hear in the West, especially as many are predicting that persecution is coming away.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: What do we do about that?
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, some people bury their heads in the sand, other people say the sky is falling.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Shadow has seen it all before, and his wisdom pointing us to the Lord Jesus and pointing us to every opportunity that comes.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: When we get into this conversation, you'll be blessed to hear how Shadow himself came to face in 1964 through the witness of his older brother Seymour, and how the gospel spread throughout the family and further afield.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Shadow has found real fruitfulness under times of great pruning, but wasn't that what the Lord Jesus promised in John chapter 15?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: That the Father prunes those who are branches in his vine so that they will be even more fruitful.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: What I loved about Shadow's story is the way in which he saw every uh instance of persecution as an opportunity.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: He did not just stand on his rights, he did not just fight for his freedoms in the political realm, he treated every single official who came his way as a soul who was deeply loved by the Lord Jesus.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And he took those individual witnessing opportunities in a way that I found quite challenging and very inspiring.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Before we get on with uh the rest of the show, I wonder if you have signed up to our email at speed like stuff we have to make to Facebook.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: In the Witch of the Instagram, speak my slash spy.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Without further ado, this is my conversation with Cherokee Relovic.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we begin by talking about uh what things were like in 1964 when he first heard the gospel from his older brother Simo.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up in uh Kosovo area, even I was then uh like a teenager, 14-15 years old, and uh my brother Simo, who uh is uh older uh of me 10 years, uh he had gone to army, and army at the time was uh for two years for him.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: And in army, uh he met a one uh Christian.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh every day he was reading a New Testament during the free time as the soldiers had in a room, and Simo is on another corner looking at him, so he was very interesting what he's reading, you know, why, what kind of book he's reading.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: And after uh one year, to to make this story shorter, uh, because the question I must answer the question how I became a Christian, he came uh at our home after one year uh for to sp to stay with us for two weeks.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: So in that time, he started to share uh about how his life was changed.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Now I'm really Christian, I belong to the Lord, I want to serve him, I want to follow his instruction, uh, his ways, his teaching.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: And for us in the family, we have been a big family.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we are all together six children, and uh we had uh two uh I mean family father and mother.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: So you can imagine big family, and uh every day, uh especially in the evenings where the family is all together, he starts to share something for from the Bible, and that was uh very, very strange to us because we never had, even I said before I uh I'm coming from an Orthodox uh background, but uh for me at that time, orthodoxy means I'm crossing uh uh every day, maybe one or two times, because uh that's the way how I'm going to the school.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking at the Orthodox church, which was very, very close to our place, and I saw some people who are crossing, you know.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: I said, okay, that's my Christianity.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: I feared of something, of God, looking to the people, but I didn't know how to communicate with the Lord, how to communicate with God uh through prayer and through faith, and so Simon started to speak to us about his experience.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, what was touchable, you know, I saw in his life something different.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: I knew him before, and I like him very much because he was older brother and my hero in in everything, you know.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: So uh looking at him and his explanation, his life, his uh even words and uh thinking, I saw something very, very different.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's not anymore, Simo, whom I know before, because before he wanted to uh live uh his life as all other young people lived at the time, you know, uh just to uh uh enjoy in his life and to be everywhere, and uh that was very touchable for me because I saw uh a new life in him from this perspective, I can say.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: And uh every day I wanted to read the Bible together with him, he wanted to share with everybody uh one thing which was uh really interesting.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: He wanted to explain.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh, after each meal, we have to pray together.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: But as we've been together uh over only in the evenings, so he uh stood up and he said, Please let us stand up, everybody, and I will pray.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: So he prayed for us, and that was also strange, especially for my parents, for my father and mother.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, once my father said, uh, this is something new, this is something new, new religion you are uh promoting here.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: We have already our faith, we have our religion, we are Orthodox, that's enough for us, and don't don't care for us because we have our faith, we have our religion.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: You must take for yourself, otherwise, if you don't stop, please go out of our house.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: Just immediately, you must leave our house because we don't like to listen to you anymore.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that was maybe the first step of uh persecution, you know, in our house, in our family.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: And uh he left uh that big room, you know, where we gathered together, and he left in one uh small room behind, already he was asleep there.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so immediately I went after him in that room, but he I found him.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: We at that time we didn't have any light.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: There was a gas lamp, you know, small because we lived in one village, and uh that was a time like that.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so then I saw him in the darkness.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: He was kneeling on his knees and praying and crying to the Lord for my father, for my father, uh mother, and for the whole family.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: So then I uh looking, what I shall do now, then immediately I kneel on my knees, you know.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: So then I start to pray.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: I start to pray for the first time in my life.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, so I felt at that moment that uh something is happening with me in my soul, in my heart, in my feelings, in my body.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: I I felt that uh Lord really showed me his life, his uh love, and uh I I started uh to believe like him.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: And immediately after he was very happy, he just hugged me.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I went to another room, he was still there.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I said to my father, because he was very, very angry, uh, I said to him, No, Simo cannot go out of our house, he must stay here.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: He said, No, yes, he must.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I stood in front of my father, you can imagine a boy of uh 14-15 years, uh, to tell to uh the father, uh, you cannot do that to him.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: And that was arguing between me and him.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: And after he saw uh that I was so serious, you know, better uh to see serious, serious, he must be, not me, you know.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: But uh he said, Okay, okay, let him stay.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I said to him, one thing more I am now believer, like my brother Simo is.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: I am with him together now, and so he then left us, you know, uh not uh uh uh arguing with us, with me together.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: So from that moment on, I started my uh Christian life.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry for long story, but no, it's fascinating.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: And and so I guess what you were seeing was a changed life in Simo, and and you were seeing a kind of a direct encounter with Christ that that Simo seemed to know the Lord in a personal way.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess, and and I guess was that a new thought for you, Cheddar, that that that you could actually know Jesus personally?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Is is is that the new thing that was striking you?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, exactly, because immediately uh comparing my my uh okay, my faith before, if I had any faith, you know, and uh uh of my family, that what uh Simo is talking and sharing, it is improved even in his thought, in his communication uh with uh the family, with all of us, in his words.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh, everything, everything I saw it is something new in his life.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that was really uh uh so so uh interesting, not only so interesting.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't have a good word, English word here, but touchable to me.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I really uh said not only because of my brother Symo, I like to be like him, you know.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: In that sense, I wanted to be uh that what he is, a child of God.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: I want to have personal relationship with God, not anymore just to cross close to the church like this, and I say, I am Orthodox, I am a believer, uh, but now something new started in my life.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: And right from the beginning, there was that sense of being different, I guess.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: And this this newfound faith put you at odds with your family in in some way.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um tell me, tell me what was what was the cost to you of standing with Christ in this way?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Mother was always there, and she was very, very responsible mother, and uh I really miss her now, she's with the Lord, but uh uh she was interested at that time about that new life, and uh I start to read the Bible, uh New Testament, especially because I didn't have a whole Bible at the beginning.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Only uh Simo found me one uh small New Testament, so I start to read with my mother and uh the rest of the family.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh one brother which is older than me, uh, the other one uh who is also older than me, between uh after Simo.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, he was uh interested for different things in his life.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: I will tell a story later on about him.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, my sister and my younger brother.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Every day I start to read the Bible.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know because Simo, after two weeks, he left to Army, and after Army, he left to study Bible school, you know, and he was not with us together, but I was in communication with at that time.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't have any telephone, mobile, or uh just by letters, writing what is happening with us together every day in our family.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: And uh during that time, uh my mother first, she was interested in very much about uh new life, uh, about Christ, about faith, how to uh give her life to Christ.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I start to explain to them how my mother can come to the Lord, how she can start to pray, how she can also have this personal uh communication and contact and fellowship with the Lord.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: My mother, after a while, she received the Lord.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I immediately I uh wrote to Brother Simo that my mother now is really uh good Christian, she loved the Lord, she started to pray with me together, and she had uh one brother, uh her brother, so uh he uh mostly regularly visiting us during the evening time, so she shared with him what happened with her life, and uh after a while that was just like a fire, you know, in the family.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: My uh one brother, so sister and younger brother, uh all of them became very close to me, and already they started to uh uh believe in the Lord and to give their life to Christ.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's the sense of SEMO to you, to other family members, to your mother, to her brother, and yeah, like you say, a fire being passed on from one to the other.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess what what how then did that set you apart, not only from the sort of the traditional faith that you've grown up with, um, but also I guess church is coming into view at some point, and um a communist government as well.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um you're you're now different, um, different from the traditional faith that you've you've grown up in, and different from an officially atheistic state, I guess.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's uh way to explain to about my brother, uh, which is between Simo and me.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh his name is Drago.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, he was uh uh in the Communist Party.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: So in our area, in our village, Communist Party is was very active at the time, you know, and thinking and party.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: And uh they organized themselves having different meetings uh sometimes once a week, sometimes once a month, or but especially when I became Christian and Simo is a Christian, uh they started to have regular meetings talking about us, how they can stop us.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I said at that time, okay, Simo is somewhere uh studying and he's not here, but Cheddar is here.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: We must tap him as we can.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: We must stop him immediately because we don't like these new things to spread and to share around us in our area.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: He cannot uh uh even be with us anymore together.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: And uh that evening they organized that meeting.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it lasts very, very late in the night, and I knew that my brother Drago was there on the meeting because he had a communist card, you know, and everything, uh, regularly belonging to the party.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: So they asked him how he can stop me, how he can stop our house, even not to belong anymore to the uh they said new religion, but uh, even if they don't like to change, you we must throw them out from our village, from our uh uh uh place.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: And all the evenings, so many questions, and the special uh topic was how they can stop caddow.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: And uh my brother Drago, after all this pressure, but this I prayed for him, but uh, I think this is God's uh miracle and God's hand over him after uh midnight, as I said to you, uh, because he came at home about around three o'clock in the morning after that very, very difficult meeting.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that was not the first one, so many others, but that was one very uh interesting one.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so he came, uh he stood up in front of that conference and meeting there and said, and put uh his hand in their pocket and said, Uh, this is my identity communist card, I will leave it to you here from this moment and now on.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: I am the shadow and sin, I I belong to God, I believe in Christ, I have this faith, I have I received Lord Jesus Christ, I feel that He is with me now, I cannot belong uh to you anymore.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: So he left.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, and that was really something like improvement, but uh okay, explain it like this.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: So many other uh things are around, uh, but that was so big pressure on him, so big pressure on us as a family.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: But he hadn't yet made that stand for Christ.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Am I getting that right?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: That he he hadn't yet, to you at least come out and said, I believe in Jesus, I want to know him, but somehow, actually, the cost of it almost provoked him into making that step of faith.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that fascinating?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh, we we are waiting or or uh looking to see, and we are very happy when people in the church uh just came and say, uh, from today, I want to belong to Christ, I want to be regular in the church.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: I I feel that the Lord is here, he's leading me and keeping me.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: But uh to be converted, that was very, very interesting for me.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: On a communist party, that's something really different.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: But that happens.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing because we we feel like we have to make it as easy as possible for people to become Christians, and the easier we make it, the more likely they they will be.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: But but I guess that's forgetting that it's the Holy Spirit's work.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: And and that actually, when you demarcate things and say, actually, to step this way for Christ means you're stepping away from that thing.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: It actually puts words to what faith really is, which is repentance and faith.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's turning from the old and turning towards the new.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that thick line between am I am I gonna be with the communist party?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be am I gonna be with Jesus, that in fact helped him to convert.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, especially uh maybe to add uh two more sentences only.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I didn't know what happened there, you know, but when he came at home, uh he had a very strong headache.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: And even he couldn't talk with me, uh, he was in the same room with me.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: I saw him, he had a big problem with stomach, with uh headache, and uh I tried to help him in many things, you know.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I didn't have any pills to give to him at that time, but very strong headache.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: And after maybe uh two hours of fighting with this so strong paid and uh problem, you know, he uh I asked him so many times, please tell me what happened, what happened?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Then he said uh with a very, very weak voice, you know, be happy with me because I commit my life to Christ.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: I am now together with you.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: I believe in Lord Jesus Christ.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, He received me as His child, and we start to uh really uh uh to dance, even you know, I didn't dance before, but uh to jump around in the room in the uh very early in the morning, and uh everybody hears what happened, so then we share this testimony with the rest of the family.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Hey hey, speaking Mike SpeakMike is really active on YouTube.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: As well as many more resources like our breaking reset series.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Reset engages the meaning devices and speaks with the fascinating guesses.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Or you might go to YouTube to find our response videos interacting with prominent YouTubers like Russell Brandon, Jordan Peterson, and Alex O'Connor.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: Go to youtube.com slash speaklifemedia and subscribe to our channel there.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's youtube.com slash speaklifemedia.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Back to the show.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: As you look across to the UK in in our situation, um there there are some real genuine concerns that the Church of Jesus Christ will be on the wrong end of the law over a number of different issues.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess one of the responses to that is that we feel um we might feel that we um we need to protest for our civil liberties, our our rights to you know religious freedom, and our right to assemble and our our our our rights to be Christians because um uh we have historically had those rights.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: But from I I wonder from your perspective, when you never had such rights to begin with, what do you what do you think the UK church should be doing to prepare for persecution?
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, it's a very difficult question.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: But uh okay, from my story and my understanding, uh the church in UK have to be uh so thankful to the Lord for everything that the Lord had done through the history.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Even in the history, there was a lot of persecution of uh good believers and Christians in your country.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: But uh now, now they life they have to be so much more thankful to the Lord for everything what the Lord is giving to them.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: And also uh they have to be ready to share.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but so many people maybe in in your country, uh, as everywhere, you know, they don't like to listen or they don't have time, you know, to to share with you or to uh tell to them about uh Christianity.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: They they they think like traditionally, okay, they are some kind of Christians, or they don't take care of Christianity.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: But uh I think those who are really uh newborn believers, they have to trust in the Lord and to be so thankful, to be so active and to spread and to share the gospel as much as they can everywhere.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, even when they don't have maybe time to speak with the people, to talk with the people, they have to show it through his through their life.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's very, very important, and also to to share with other Christians, to interest for other Christians how they are living in different uh worlds and different countries, and to to have sympathy and understanding uh for those who are passing through many problems, and even to take care of them and to pray for them that God will protect so many other people who are in persecution.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: And uh maybe my my example when I moved from Macedonia here to niche very shortly to say so many, so many experiences, but uh, when we started in our home and uh started people to meet people in their homes and then in our home, and the police was all the time very close there, or somewhere on the street, or somewhere on the corner looking at us, who is coming and who is going from our house, and uh that was really uh all new people who came at the time.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: That was 1980, in October, we came in niche, and uh very uh from the very beginning, we start to organize our work, you know.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: We had experience now, and we start to meet people in their homes.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: There was uh two or three Christians in our city, so we have been in their homes, so we asked them to invite people to come in their home that we can share the gospel, and all the time in the in the circle we did this.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: And after those who are new now, they became a Christian, they had a lot of opposition immediately.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: As I said to you, they are they've been always on the corner somewhere, looking who is coming, who is going from our house.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh we started to renovate our house for church meeting down, but uh upstairs we had our home, our house, and uh police officer.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: If I can say three months, every day was knocking on our door, every day coming in our uh small yard, every day he wants to ask something or to do uh uh some pressure on us, asking who are those people, why they're coming to you, what they want with you, what you are doing with them, and so I explained to him, but he that was his job.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: So one day after I decide to go to the police office, you know.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to uh talk with the main uh man there.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: And uh as I came there, I asked, please, can you can you show me?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Can you help me to come to the main officer of the police?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they said, Why?
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: You you must tell to us.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: I said, No, no, no, I must talk with him personally.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: So they helped me, and there was one who changed him at the time.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: He was not in the building.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Okay, first one who was changed him.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I I spent there about two hours there.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, I'm a believer.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: I start to witness to him, saying my testimony, uh, how I feel as a Christian, as a Christian.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: I said, uh, I'm a pastor, also.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: I uh finished Bible school and I'm here now, I'm living here now.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: I have family, I have family here.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Please, uh, I have my story to tell to you.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: The officer who is coming to my home every day and making us a problem because our children, when they saw him again uh coming to me and say, Daddy, here again, he's a police, he's uh just asking different questions, he wants to stop us and why he's coming every day, why he's coming every day.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I explained to that officer.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: I said to him, I am not ashamed because I'm a believer.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: I love this country, I love uh uh every every people in this country, and I'm praying every time for our country.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Please, if you doubt, please send someone, and I will not tell to anyone of the small group of people.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: He may come and he will hear that we are people who love this country, we are people who pray for our government, for police, for uh army, and for everybody.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: And he was very careful.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: After two and a half hours, he said, stood up and said, Go at home.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: And from now on, you will not have any problem.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: If you have a problem, please come immediately to me.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: But nobody will come to you anymore to disturb you or to make you a problem because you are free.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: That was really so big, encouragement.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: But uh to go there and to spend time with this man, I felt really God's hand over me and he gave me strength, you know, and verse even to share with him my testimony, and that's what I uh saw and felt and saw all these things.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: God really helped me.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's fascinating because you you could feel like you know, oppression and persecution comes from an abstract government that's just over you.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: And you took the very personal roots and you said, you know, I'm gonna be, you know, one person talking to another person, getting in the same room, sharing my heart with them.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what yeah, what what what are some of the lessons that we can learn from that story?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because that sounds uh like a a fascinating, very wise way of handling that particular uh incidence of persecution.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you see, uh what happened, okay, to tell you shortly about the man who was uh uh officer on the on the street there, who was coming and looking and asking.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: I met him after maybe two months in one uh big company.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: He was on the on the uh door of that company, just uh keeping and taking care who is coming in, who is going outside, and uh that was selling company.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I met him on the door personally again, and he said like this to me, oh, what you have done, I know everything.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: What you have to do to me, I lost my job.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: I was surprised, you know.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I didn't done to you that you done this to you because you made a lot of problems to us, but still I I like you, and I'm here coming and buying because we start to to renovate the house.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: And he was so surprised.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: But each time then again I had possibility to share something with him because I saw really God's hand in me, and God gave me encouragement instead to uh to stop, you know, me, God gave me encouragement that I can share much more, much more uh what is in my heart, and even to show them something uh different they ever see.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: This is my communication, my life, my words are different.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I said uh I said uh uh uh after to the officer, one more experience.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: I have I don't blame anyone, but please, I have rights to believe in God.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: I know the law, and I'm trying to obey the law.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: If I have any any problem with the law, please stop me, or you will stop, as you said.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm not against this country, even that was very, very difficult game, communist mind, and also also uh so many Christians have the same problem in the country and in our small church there.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: So you you you still do say, look, I know the law, and I'm trying to stay on the right side of the law, and I know what my rights are, and you you ought to protect my rights.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so you're you you are dealing with people at that kind of level, a political level, if you like, um, but you're transcending that as well.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: And you're you're dealing with each of them as individual souls.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: I uh I've got a friend who um was quite understandably um disturbed by the fact that the city council of the city where he was um church pastor, um he heard that they were going to send somebody to inspect their church to see if um they were being compliant with all the coronavirus and and the lockdown kind of um, you know, everybody masks and and to to have everything like that.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and he was quite you know disturbed by that.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I I just sort of messaged him privately and said, Do you mean that the city council is actually sending someone to you to hear the gospel preached?
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: Hallelujah, brother, hallelujah! And and I I just I just wonder whether we need to have that, you know.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it can feel very um oppressive to have the government intruding on us in a way that we haven't expected.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um but can we treat each of those encounters as a one-to-one, you know, possibility of sharing Christ?
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: That that's our duty.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: That is that that is our task, you know, and even uh this is our call to do that everywhere where we are, you know.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I if I have time to share this, uh another uh inspector came, but he was civilian, you know.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: He came in our uh home and the church play, especially.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: And uh my children again have been all all the time after their responsibility, playing in the yard, playing, going uh to the church.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was open all the time.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: And they was there, and they called me immediately.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, Daddy, somebody came and he wants to uh talk with you.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: And as I came there, he was he said, I'm he showed me, you know, like uh his identity card and said, I'm inspector, and he was very serious in the church.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: We are sitting there, and we start to talk, and again I shared my testimony with him how I became Christian, why I'm a believer, why am I doing that, what I am doing, not other works, you know.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: I am really uh uh I was so happy to share this with him, but he stood up and said, You know with whom you are talking?
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: I said, You told me something.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: But he said, I am responsible, and I came here to close this building.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: I said, What he said, I am responsible and I have authority immediately to close this building, not to you for you to use anymore for your activities.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: So then I said to him, uh, and I was also immediately that time, very strong, you know, with my voice.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: I said, please wait a moment.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, I want to tell you uh we are a member of Baptist Union in the country here, Yugoslavia, at that time, and we are members of European Baptist Federation, we are the members of World Baptist Federation, and all the instances of all the uh offices uh in Europe and in the world, they knew and they know that we exist here in the city.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: But here is the key.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: I said to him if you can close this uh building, please do it now, immediately.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: He started then to to think, okay, wait, wait, wait a moment.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: He said, I said to him also, you're very late because one year we are working and we uh have sent to you a message, an explanation that we will start without uh open meetings, you know, in this building.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: You are very late, I said to him.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, still I can okay.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: If you can do, please do it immediately.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: So then after he changed his story, you know, and words, and he said, uh it would be much better for me if I have met you, uh, that you are involved in some another some other occupation, like engineer or professor or something like that, or that we can talk, you know, and share, that we can be useful uh in the family, in the but the faith, what you are pronouncing is only for old people.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I said to him, Do you have is your mother still alive?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: So you mean that she is for nothing?
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because she says that she's saying that she believes in God, there is a God.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, no, in that way.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: So you're comparing me with very old people, foolish people.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: Please, I said to him, You need God, and so I had a pretend again to witness him, even he was strong.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: He could, he could do that, really.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but in that time, especially, but Lord again was on our side.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's yeah, it's fascinating to me.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: You're treating each of these encounters as a witnessing opportunity rather than the I mean, because everything in us probably rises up and says, you know, I have my rights, and this is outrageous.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: And and and you do, you know, stand on your rights and you do expect to be treated in a certain way under the law.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but even more than that, it seems like you're you're treating these encounters as as witnessing opportunities, um, which is something I'm yeah, that's that's something I think we can all learn from massively.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, can I just ask a couple of questions to close?
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because it seems to me, in fact, I'll wrap this up into one question.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it seems to me that what you um are saying requires great courage.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it requires great courage for you.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you've mentioned something about your your family as well, and it occurs to me that um I will have to teach my children to be a lot more courageous in their faith than I've been called to be.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm 42 years old.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, being a Christian has not been particularly difficult for me.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I I feel like I'm raising children in a world where it will be a lot more difficult for them to be Christians than it has been for me to be a Christian.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: How do you yourself have courage um in expressing your faith in difficult times?
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: And how do you how do you nurture courage um in your children to raise them to be bold servants of Jesus?
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's really good question and interesting story.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: But uh I will explain like this.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: My children, uh, the names of my children is first one is Teophil.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the other one is Emmanuel, God with us.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: God love us, God with us, yeah.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and third one is David, one which is really famous to the Lord, loved by God, yeah.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: And uh on the end, daughter uh four, she uh her name is Immanuela, Emanuela, Emmanuel and Emanuela.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: We thought that the second one will be daughter, but then on the end, daughter came.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: And they had a lot of problem uh in the school because school was very nearby our house, and uh especially uh with the teachers, you know, when they have to uh pronounce their names, they saw and they thought these are uh strange names, foreign names for them.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: They never hear these names, and so each one of them a lot of pressure in the school, and that's a special story uh of them, and they suffered really sometimes uh receiving the good uh mark or grade, how we say, when they are uh uh have to answer or to be taught on their some different subjects, uh, just because of name, they suffered.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes uh the parents uh have to talk to them.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: Please don't don't play or don't have any contact, any fellowship.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: Please don't go in their house, even it is very close to the church.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: But what happened?
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: My children had a lot of friends, you know, and our house was all the time with the uh uh their friends, you know, together because they felt very free when they are in our home.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: And uh also here is my son, Manuel, even he can use he can share this testimony with him.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: When he passed through uh after finished uh primary school, then uh he started in uh high school, and he had uh on the first year he had so much pressure from uh one or two professors, but so much pressure every day.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: He was very strong, he was uh uh very angry.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh even it was seen in his uh uh place in classroom, you know, uh with the friends.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: He openly said, please don't look at him, don't have any fellowship with him, uh, don't go in his house, don't listen to him.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh, he is something new, he is some uh foolish because he's uh different faith, different religion, don't talk with him.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: And even he thought one uh I will really ensure this story.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he thought one day he came to me and he thought to stop anymore to go to that school.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: He wanted to be changed to go in another school, but the same will be in another school, you know.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I was uh at the time I took care of him, and every day I was in school, every day trying to meet that man, but he didn't like to meet me personally, and every day, so I met there some other professors.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: I met director and some other professors.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: One was professor of history, and he was listening all the time.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: What I'm sharing, what is my problem?
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: And director, I've been in his office openly explaining uh uh what problem he has, because that professor is talking with other professors.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Professors to make him problem because he's a believer.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: And uh what happened then?
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: What happened then?
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he decided to still to go to the school, and I was close to him every day, and I I found a good friend, uh, let me say, or good feelings with director, he said, I will protect him.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: Please don't worry, don't go, don't come anymore in school.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: And uh also, that professor of history he met me so many times on the uh uh uh door in front of the school, and he said, You said very good thing, very openly.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: You have said to them what you mean, what you think, and what you believe.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: I like, I enjoy this.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so after a while, he came in our church in and became a member of the church, really, and also a friend of my son, who was very close to him, who was very uh mostly lived with us in our home, and he became a Christian.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I can see the result of pressure really comes something very good, very blessed, that the people came uh to know the Lord.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: So through the persecution, Lord is teaching us, helping us, and leading us, but for with a purpose that we have to stay faithful, that someone will uh uh receive him as a Lord and Savior.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's my really great experience and enjoy in these stories very much.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've enjoyed it so much.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, this calls for wisdom, this calls for courage, and this calls for a zeal for the Lord that that sort of trumps our other fears.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, I think you've been very uh inspirational, Cheddar.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: I I I think I've yeah, I've learnt uh so much about what it's meant uh for you to stand firm uh for Jesus in your time and place.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I pray that we would all learn that same wisdom and that same courage uh for the battles that we have ahead.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Cheddar Ralovich, thank you so much for joining us.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: God bless.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that'll do us on the Speak Life Podcast for this week.
• 46:26
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• 46:28
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• 46:34
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• 46:38
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• 46:42
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• 46:43
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• 46:46
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• 46:49
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• 47:31
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• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: See you next time on the Speak Life Podcast.