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Louise Thompson quizzes UK health secretary on England maternity report · THE DAILY BRIEF

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  Speaker 1: I speak on behalf of the one hundred and sixty
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  Speaker 1: thousand effective women who have signed the petition that THEO
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  Speaker 1: and I created at the beginning of this year. We
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  Speaker 1: would feel a lot more confident if there was a
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  Speaker 1: date that we knew that the government were working towards.
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  Speaker 2: Can you give us a date, mister Murray.
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  Speaker 3: Look, I'm not going to say a date right now
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  Speaker 3: because I don't want to come up with a date
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  Speaker 3: that I can't keep as a promise.
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  Speaker 4: A national inquiry has strongly criticized the NITES maternity system
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  Speaker 4: in England, saying it is not set up to deliver
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  Speaker 4: consistently safe, high quality and compassionate care.
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  Speaker 2: We've just been hearing from baroness Amos, who chaired that
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  Speaker 2: government commission review, which also found unacceptable racism and discrimination
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  Speaker 2: embedded within the maternity system. The government has accepted the
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  Speaker 2: report's main recommendations, which is to appoint a National Maternity Commissioner.
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  Speaker 2: And we're joined now by the Health Secretary, James Murray.
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  Speaker 2: Good morning, mister Murray. As Health Secretary, to see those
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  Speaker 2: words in black and white that the maternity and neo
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  Speaker 2: natal system in England is no longer fit to deliver
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  Speaker 2: high quality, compassionate care. What did you think when you
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  Speaker 2: read that?
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  Speaker 3: I think it's shocking, but it's actually not surprising because
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  Speaker 3: we've had so many reports in recent years showing the pain,
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  Speaker 3: the trauma, the devastation that failings in NHS maternity and
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  Speaker 3: neonatal services have caused women to babies and their families
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  Speaker 3: over many years. You know, I think what Amos's report
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  Speaker 3: sets out something I think we all thought was likely,
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  Speaker 3: something we all knew, something we all know from conversations
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  Speaker 3: with our friends and family, which is that NHS maternity
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  Speaker 3: services are just not fit. They are failing too many
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  Speaker 3: women and babies and their families across the country, and
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  Speaker 3: things need to change.
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  Speaker 2: So what do we do? How do we change them?
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  Speaker 2: One of the suggestions is the creation of a Maternity
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  Speaker 2: and Neonatal Commissioner. But for women watching this this morning
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  Speaker 2: who are pregnant and due to give birth, how much
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  Speaker 2: difference is a commissioner going to make? Is that really
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  Speaker 2: going to make them feel any safer?
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  Speaker 4: Well?
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  Speaker 3: The commissioner, the decision to establish that role is an
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  Speaker 3: important role in driving accountability and making sure that women's
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  Speaker 3: voices are heard at the hout of hearts of government.
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  Speaker 3: When the commissioner is in place, they'll be able to
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  Speaker 3: hold the system to account and to make sure that
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  Speaker 3: women's voices are being heard, because one of the things
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  Speaker 3: that I've heard so many times when I've been speaking
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  Speaker 3: to women who have been affected by failings in maternity
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  Speaker 3: services is the sense that they're just not listened to,
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  Speaker 3: that they are ignored, that their concerns are disregarded, that
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  Speaker 3: maternity services do not respond to what they're saying, and
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  Speaker 3: that needs to change. We need to make sure maternity
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  Speaker 3: services are held to account, that we change the culture
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  Speaker 3: in maternity services, and I think the first step for
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  Speaker 3: that is to appoint this new Maternity in Neonatal Commissioner
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  Speaker 3: who'll be able to hold the system to account and
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  Speaker 3: help us as a government drive that change.
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  Speaker 4: So, Marie, we have the Maternity Safety campaign in Luise
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  Speaker 4: Thompson here in the studio with us this morning, and
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  Speaker 4: I am going to ask her to ask you the
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  Speaker 4: next question.
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  Speaker 1: Hi, mister Murray, I would really like to know when
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  Speaker 1: you plan on appointing this new role.
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  Speaker 3: Great back, Thanks for the question, Luise. So what's going
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  Speaker 3: to happen in the next two weeks. I'm going to
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  Speaker 3: meet with the National Task Force which I shair, which
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  Speaker 3: will be developing the action plan for how we're going
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  Speaker 3: to change maternity services. When I meet them in the
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  Speaker 3: next two weeks, we'll set out the scope and the
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  Speaker 3: details about the Maternity Commissioner role. We then need to
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  Speaker 3: get it into legislation as quickly as possible so that
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  Speaker 3: we can appoint a person to that role. So we'll
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  Speaker 3: move as quickly as we can in the first next
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  Speaker 3: two weeks getting the details of the role pinned down
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  Speaker 3: by working with the task Force that IDE chair, and
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  Speaker 3: then getting it into legislation as quickly as possible because
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  Speaker 3: it's going to be a statutory role, so it would
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  Speaker 3: be a role that we can point to and say
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  Speaker 3: this has real weight, this is real standing within the system,
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  Speaker 3: and we can really make sure the person who is
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  Speaker 3: in this role has the authority to drive change.
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  Speaker 2: Luise, what do you think of that response that basically
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  Speaker 2: a job description has to be drawn up then it
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  Speaker 2: has to go through Parliament. Doesn't sound to me like
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  Speaker 2: it's happening anytime.
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  Speaker 1: So yes, I think the thing you know, when I
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  Speaker 1: speak on behalf of the one hundred and sixty thousand
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: effective women who have signed the petition that THEO and
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: I created at the beginning of this year. We would
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: feel a lot more confident if there was a date
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: that we knew that the government were working towards.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: Can you give us a date, mister Murray.
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  Speaker 3: Look, I'm not going to say a date right now,
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  Speaker 3: because I don't want to come up with a day
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  Speaker 3: that I can't keep as a promise. What I can promise, though,
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  Speaker 3: is that we'll have that meeting in the next two
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  Speaker 3: weeks to pin down the scope and the details of
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  Speaker 3: the role, and we will then get that into legislation
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  Speaker 3: as quickly as possible, because I think one of the
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  Speaker 3: important things is to make sure this role has real
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  Speaker 3: weight and real standing in the system, and so getting
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  Speaker 3: it right, getting the details of the role right and
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  Speaker 3: getting it into legislation is really important to making sure
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  Speaker 3: that happens.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, but mister Murray, this report is calling for urgent
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  Speaker 2: systemic reform, and there are hundreds thousands of babies being
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  Speaker 2: born in hospitals across the country every single week, and
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  Speaker 2: we can't get a date and when this commission is
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  Speaker 2: going to be I mean, can you at least give
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  Speaker 2: us an indication before the end of the year.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I honestly don't want to give you a date
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  Speaker 3: that I can't stand behind one hundred percent because there's
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  Speaker 3: been too many examplesitions before the end of the year. Well,
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  Speaker 3: I want to make sure it's in place, the commissioner
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  Speaker 3: role is in place and someone is appointed to that
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  Speaker 3: role as soon as possible. What I can tell you
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  Speaker 3: is by the end of this year we will have
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  Speaker 3: produced a comprehensive action plan through the task force that
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  Speaker 3: I chair, and the role of the Commissioner will be
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  Speaker 3: to help make sure that comprehensive action plan is then implemented.
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  Speaker 3: So by the end of this year we will have
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  Speaker 3: that plan, which will be based on all of the
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  Speaker 3: recommendations from baronos Amos's report, from Donna Ockenden's report into
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  Speaker 3: the devastating failures in Nottingham, other reports which have been
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  Speaker 3: done in recent years into failing to maternity services. All
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  Speaker 3: of those recommendations, rather than being accepted and sitting on
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  Speaker 3: a shelf gathering dust, they will all go into the
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  Speaker 3: task force. A comprehensive action plan will be produced by
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  Speaker 3: the end of this year, and then a key role
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  Speaker 3: for the Commissioner when they're in place, will be to
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  Speaker 3: make sure that plan is put into action.
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  Speaker 2: There are so many other parts of this inquiry that
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  Speaker 2: we need to talk about, but so many people critics
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  Speaker 2: of the review saying it should have gone further, that
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  Speaker 2: it should have been a full public inquiry with statutory
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  Speaker 2: powers to call witnesses, and they would like that to happen. Now,
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  Speaker 2: are they wrong to call for that.
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  Speaker 3: They're not wrong to call for that. I can understand
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  Speaker 3: where that feeling comes from, very strongly, a very strong
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  Speaker 3: desire for real accountability for people who have been involved
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  Speaker 3: in some of the failings of maternity services or involved
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  Speaker 3: in covering things up when they've gone wrong. I know
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  Speaker 3: from talking to families that some people favor a public inquiry,
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  Speaker 3: others have a different view on that. At this stage,
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  Speaker 3: I'm not taking anything off the table, but I think
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  Speaker 3: that focus on accountability is crucial, and if I can
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  Speaker 3: just say one important point on that. Last week, in
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  Speaker 3: response to the publication of don Ockenden's report into what
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  Speaker 3: had happened in Nottingham, I announced that the new duty
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  Speaker 3: of candor, which will come into force once the Hillsboro
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  Speaker 3: Law is in place, that will apply to future maternity investigations.
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  Speaker 3: So we've got investigations which don Ockenden is going to
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  Speaker 3: be undertaking into maternity services in Leeds in Sussex. In
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  Speaker 3: those reviews and any future reviews, the duty of Canada
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  Speaker 3: will apply and that will mean we can never again
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  Speaker 3: have a situation where senior leadership in the NHS refuse
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  Speaker 3: her to take part in the investigations. That helps the
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  Speaker 3: drive accountability and make sure that people in the future
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  Speaker 3: can't get away with not taking part in investigations which
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  Speaker 3: are taking place.
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  Speaker 2: Mister Murray, thank you very much in doing you.
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  Speaker 4: Louise, listening to everything that the Health Secretary was saying now,
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  Speaker 4: I wonder what you make of that.
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  Speaker 1: I think it's so important that everybody is speaking about
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  Speaker 1: this and the time is now for change. It's interesting
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  Speaker 1: to hear about the duty of candor because I didn't
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  Speaker 1: know about that. But ultimately it does feel as though
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  Speaker 1: the issues are consistently just kicked into long grass and
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  Speaker 1: without having a firm date, I don't know whether it
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  Speaker 1: just doesn't feel like the responsibility is there. So we
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  Speaker 1: will keep pushing and we will not give up on
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  Speaker 1: this and we will make sure that it happens.
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  Speaker 2: And it was interesting from what he said just then
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  Speaker 2: that the idea of a full public inquiry, he said,
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  Speaker 2: was not off the table. He's not saying no to
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  Speaker 2: that completely well, and he's.
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  Speaker 1: Mentioned about these subsequent inquiries into Leeds and the other
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  Speaker 1: hospital trusts. Ultimately, as an affected parent myself, I totally
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  Speaker 1: understand why other affected parents would want a statutory inquiry
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  Speaker 1: because people want to uncover what's happened to them, and
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  Speaker 1: they want to get to the root cause of where
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  Speaker 1: all of these issues are and to see if there
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  Speaker 1: has been any criminal behavior. You know, I totally understand
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  Speaker 1: that because I wouldn't you know, I'd be lying if
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  Speaker 1: I said I didn't want there to be an investigation
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  Speaker 1: into my hospital. Is it going to get to a
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  Speaker 1: point where we only start to take this seriously if
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  Speaker 1: major central London hospitals are being investigated, will there then
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  Speaker 1: be a shift in perspective? That's how I view it.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you so much Louise for coming in and for
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  Speaker 2: staying with us for that part of the interview as well.
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  Speaker 2: And for moms to be who are watching this morning
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  Speaker 2: and feeling anxious. Have you've got a quick message that
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  Speaker 2: you'd like to leave them with on a day like this.
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  Speaker 1: I think the key thing is just to speak to
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  Speaker 1: friends that have been through the experience and educate yourself
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  Speaker 1: as best as you can. I do know people that
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  Speaker 1: have had amazing birth experience, so it is possible. But
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  Speaker 1: it's just about advocating for yourself and remembering that you
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  Speaker 1: know your body best, so listen to your instincts and
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  Speaker 1: remember the power of yes and no.