Latest / Skin Anarchy / Hannah Baxter, Senior Beauty Editor

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Hannah Baxter, Senior Beauty Editor · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
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• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Hi guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: This is your host, Ecta, and today I'm very excited because I have with me Hannah Baxter, who is um currently a senior beauty editor at Covator.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome, Hannah.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited you're here.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: I am I want to go into your career.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: I want to talk about how you got into beauty and um you know just what was your journey, like your personal journey, your career journey, all of that good stuff.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: I always feel bad when people ask me this question because mine is not a neat and clear linear path.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um but uh I didn't start out knowing that I wanted to work even in magazines or in media.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: I went to school, um, I went to University of Missouri, which has a really great journalism program, and I sat in that class, like journalism 101, and they basically said if anyone here is interested in either creative writing or making any kind of money, raise your hand.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I raised my hand, they're like all of you can just leave.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh shit, okay.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I ended up um majoring in English and theater with an emphasis in playwriting, and that's what I really wanted to do.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: I moved to New York, I had um an internship that turned into a job at an off-Broadway theater, and I did that for a little under a year, but that makes you like negative money in New York City.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's yeah, it's less cool.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um I've heard that.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, everything you heard is true.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: So um I always had like side hustles, I bartended for a really long time, and once I left that theater, I actually got um my first job and editorial for Bust magazine, which I yeah, I'd always been a huge, huge fan of theirs.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember reading Tina Faye's biography in college, I think it was like a sophomore in college, and she she mentions that shoot where they were talking about like retouching and all of that stuff, and I immediately fell in love with the publication.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I was with them for like a year and a half, handling a lot of their digital content.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: It was where I did my first like professional interview.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: I was editing a lot, I was writing, like it was the height of digital media, so you're just churning out content.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like, thank god I was like 24, 25, because just thinking about it exhausts me now.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, yeah, so I I got really burnt out doing that, and I didn't really know where else to go.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't have the connections at any of the heritage brands.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure there's like some cyberspace place where hundreds of my CVs are sitting on red.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I love that.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's my you're my favorite kind of person who like doesn't have the connections and doesn't have the inside, you know what I mean?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like the plug, and yeah, you've had to work for everything you have.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, hell yeah.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, virtual high five for that.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Seriously.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I didn't I didn't intern here in New York in the summer.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I in I I came to New York for like a playwriting competition, like a national playwrighting competition.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I spent my summers doing.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: I was not like sitting in the beauty closet at Hearst, like making connections.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I I kind of didn't know where to go from there.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I I ended up going brand side for um a couple of beauty brands and getting some experience there, which is super valuable, especially considering I I write about brands, it's a huge section of my job.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, yeah, um, that was really interesting.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it ended up not being for me.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: I really missed like writing and flexing a different set of creative muscles.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I had been um consulting and freelance writing for a couple of different places, like the Rumpus.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: I was doing like book reviews and author interviews for again, like no money.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: I think I was paid five dollars.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: Oh wow, and it was it was fine again.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: I was like bartending to make money, but um eventually that led me to joining Covetour, and I've been there for the last like four and a half years.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's awesome! I love that.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you have such a you know, like the bartending is I was just smiling when you were saying that because I it's like um I remember being in college and being like, you know, these people work their butt off.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's a hard job.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's really hard, yeah.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: So okay, so tell me more about like your personal beauty journey because I want to know, like, I'm always curious for people who go into editorial, like, you know, what you like your first um I guess experience with beauty, right?
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's like we all have our personal journeys, and I I would love to hear yours, like growing up and stuff.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what were the things that you focused on with beauty and you know, um, just all of that stuff.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um my like I didn't come from a beauty-obsessed family or anything like that.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, my mom is not a beauty girl.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I saw her wear mascara until I was like 14, and I was like, holy shit, that's your kid.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like she was she was all about like wearing sunscreen and washing your face, and she took good care of her skin, and she's in her 60s and she looks amazing.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: But are you French by the way?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's very French protocol.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm not, but it just Midwestern French, like who can tell?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um right, it's the same.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a I'm from the Midwest too, so hell yeah, go Midwest girl.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Go Midwest.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: We're a nice people.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: We are nice people.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for saying that.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: I have had to explain that to people before.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, you know, you're just so different.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yes, because the Midwest, we're really nice.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: We're really nice.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's so good.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: But continue, I interrupted you, I'm sorry.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: No, um, so yeah, I I didn't have an interest in it from that, but I grew up with one sister, and we were both kind of interested in magazines and movies and the glamorous 90s things that we were seeing in TV shows, and um I became interested in sort of that world in the editorial world and taping up like the pages of magazines to my bedroom walls.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I eventually got like a video camera when I was like 13 or 14, and my friends and I would film like stupid little movies, or we would do runway shows, and I would do all of my friends' makeup.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I had oh god, like the Claire's glitter pot stacks and horrible like Bath and Body Works Roll on Body Flutter and like cover girl palettes, and you know, I grew up in the 90s, so Me too, me too, yes.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: Best time to grow up.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: It was great, and I'm so thankful that we didn't have social media at that time because we weren't posting it, we were just doing it for ourselves.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: No one saw these videos except for us, and we were just taking photos and videos and going out into like the woods to take like me, yes, like making our own like Blair Woods project.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it was yeah, I know I did the same thing, I love it, I love it.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, 90s were awesome.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they truly were, and it was it was just for you, and it felt very personal, and no one was like liking or judging or posting, and I don't know, it was just silly and fun, and that's kind of when I became interested in it in a playful sense, I guess.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right, that makes sense, and I and I like that.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: I like how organic that is, you know what I mean?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's you know, I'm really glad that you brought up that you grew up in the 90s, and because I think for us, like everything that we decided to go into.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think of all my friends I I talked to in different professions, it's like we had the opportunity to go out there and explore what we wanted, you know what I mean, and then like make a decision.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's it's a it's a cool path, you know, it's it's a cool path to get to where you um wanted to go with your career.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I really commend you for that.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: Oh well, thank you.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me about um what you look for in a brand that you really, really like.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, something, you know, maybe something you've come across in the last year that you were like, you know, I really like this brand.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, what are the things you look for?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like vision or story or just quality of product?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a good question because I think beauty right now is so oversaturated.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I I can't remember the statistic statistic right now, but it's a crazy percentage of new brands that launched even in 2020.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously, no one could like see the pandemic coming, not really.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: So they didn't have that on their brains when they were like formulating and thinking of marketing strategy and all of that, but there's just so much out there across category, like from hair and skin and nails and body and makeup.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: There's just like so much to weed through, which you know is part of the job of being a beauty editor.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: We have to be able to look at something and tell you if it's worth your hard-earned dollars.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I I when people try to understand the scale of what I am doing in beauty, I like to tell them that I get on average an email per minute.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: If you can think of that in your inbox, just like filling up, and some of those are correspondence with brands that I've had relationships with for you know the past five years.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: Some are new brands trying to get my attention from PR people who have never contacted me before, and like God bless anyone sending out a cold email, because that is not it's not a comfortable place to be in.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm sure you understand that.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: I do.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: I do, yeah.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's tough.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's like what is this?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it's really, really hard.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: So um, I look a lot about um like the story of the founders, if they have a unique perspective, if something is maybe like came from a family tradition, um, if they had a really really unique experience that like shaped either their knowledge of a certain ingredient or a type of product, or just something that stands out, and it's you can't just hold it up and be like, okay, this is another like cream blush pot or this is another charcoal mask.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there has to be some particular thing that's unique about it to first get the attention, and then you sort of get into the nitty-gritty of like, okay, what's in the formula?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: Where are you sourcing from?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: Who are you making this product for?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what are your priorities?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, something a little bit special about the brand story usually pieces.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that makes sense, you know.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense of something that I think for me, also like with skincare anarchy, you know, um my goal was like the brand vision, you know what I mean?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Understanding the brand vision of all of these skincare lines, because you're right, it's extremely saturated.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I I can't tell you like how many times I've been like, you know, I really want a new sunscreen, and then you go online and it's like, well, I have about a million options, you know.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're just bombarded with information.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like SPF 35, like there are 80 different lines I could pick from.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I hear you.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and I think the brand vision and the brand journey is so important.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Now, what do you think about all the, you know, I know there's a lot of uh talk and buzz around the whole idea of brands standing behind, um, for example, like you know, the 15% pledge or something very charitable or you know, impactful.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how do you analyze that when you're like really looking at a brand?
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, do you upfront ask them or you know, how does that work in the editorial world?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's a very tricky place coming from an editorial perspective to ask those questions of brands.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: It really depends on how established they are.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because a new brand that doesn't have the resources, they may only have like three people on staff.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so they might not have the resources to be like, okay, I have like an entire exec board and you know, all these people working in the company.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: But I absolutely think that the 15% pledge is like the bare minimum of what we should be doing.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's a reckoning that's a long time coming, and I think it's a great place to start, but I'm also really excited about platforms like 13 Loon that launched, I think, in December, November, December of 2020, that is a marketplace for Black-owned brands, and it's also a great way for people to be able to shop and explore these brands and realize that just because I think there's a feeling that if you're buying a product from a black-owned brand and you're you're not a black consumer, that maybe this product isn't for you, especially in the hair care space.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: It it gives you an opportunity to educate yourself because it shouldn't just be the onus of black creators, black founders to constantly teach you.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: They're like something like that.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: That platform allows you to teach yourself and become ingrained in that brand and learn about products and ingredients, and it's just a really great tool for making connections and um sort of experiencing all the amazing parts of beauty that make it such a lovely community to present.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I agree with you, and I think it's it's awesome that you brought up the hair topic because uh I know when we were growing up, you know, there was really no information about hair care for black people.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't remember ever seeing, like, you know what I mean?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like major brands come out and say, well, this is what it means to have this kind of hair, this is how you take care of it.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: And and now you're definitely seeing a lot more of that.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think uh Priyanka Chopra just launched her first hairline, right?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: About with like, and she has Indian hair.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I even with my hair, Indian hair, I didn't know what how to take care of it, like in the West.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I know my mother was using like coconut oil on my scalp when I was a kid, you know what I mean?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: And like her own like remedies and her own stuff, but it was never like um, you know, going into like a Walgreens or like a Target and being like, well, this hair product is perfect for me.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: And now you're definitely seeing more of that.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I, you know, then the reason I asked you that question was because I just wonder, um, from the consumer standpoint, how to sift through that because it's almost like it happened and it's happening very fast.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: So there's also this like confusion, you know what I mean?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like a confusion factor.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that people are um in some ways afraid to ask those questions because I I feel like there are a lot of people in the beauty community who want to be informed and want to have that knowledge, and you're not quite sure what's okay to ask.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a completely valid concern.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: So anything that's sort of allowing you to participate in those conversations and learn from brand founders, CEOs, cosmetic chemists that maybe don't look like you, I think is a huge opportunity.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: And especially when it comes to hair, it's really fun for me to see like white women, especially who have like thick curly hair, realize that they can benefit from some of these products.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yes, welcome to like the land of like castor oil, shea, butter, all of these things.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, these products are made for you.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you have curly hair, it has nothing to do with the color of your skin, and it's all about the texture of your hair.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: You totally get it.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're the first person I've talked to that I can.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like you totally get my point of view on this too, because it's like I've all you know, I was making the point earlier in a previous episode where I was like, Well, why do we have to have hair care for black people and then it's separated, right?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, um, you know, I I think Kayla Kayla Greaves made a great point.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, not only is it separated, but it's like in a totally different area with like bars around it and stuff.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, not only black people need this hair product, you can use that if you have really curly hair, period.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like and it's such like an outdated thing of marketing again from the 90s, like for better or worse, then this is a part that's worse.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: But it, yeah, it's sectioned off in a different segment of the store.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: In parts of New York, it's under like lock and key, which is like ignorant, racist, and unnecessary.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: But it it's just it's like a physical barrier from keeping people feeling separated into categories when we're really talking about on a granular level your hair texture.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and like you should also be getting into like the culture of that.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: But this is an opportunity for white women especially to learn from these brands and realize that not only should you be listening to the things being said, but you can also greatly benefit from it.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: Your hair is gonna look great, girl.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like you just learned.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: But that accused.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's a 100%, a hundred percent, Hannah.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, like I I struggle with this so much because you know, obviously, like you have people that are open-minded, and then you have people that are just like, well, there's no way this is gonna work for me.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, how do you even know you haven't tried it?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: Just because the model on the package doesn't look like you doesn't mean that's not gonna work, you know, like and and that's marketing, that's not a a product thing.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I I completely hear you.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: I wanna I want to actually shift gears a little bit because um obviously, you know, my focus is skincare, and I really want to talk about that um in terms of just skincare lines that you've seen that you really think are more universal, you know what I mean?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're they're kind of pumping that message out of well, we're not, you know, aligned with one type of person or one demographic.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, have you come across brands like that that you really enjoyed?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think the lovely part of all these brands launching in the last year or so is that um that inclusivity and commitment to diversity just has to be a part of your brand DNA from the get-go.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like, consumers are so informed and so in tune with what is happening in terms of the science, and now we're really looking to have the culture and the representation backing that up.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that began with Rihanna and her launch of like the industry, the now industry standard 40 Shades of Foundation, and it has since increased from there.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: But now it's applying to skincare too.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: So whether it's like disclosing what sort of acids are in your peel and realizing that you know some of these are not safe even for people with a darker skin tone because it can lead to additional hyperpigmentation.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think disclosing those things, um in a perfect world, every brand would have the funds to conduct clinical trials on a range of skin tones so that you know that something's safe and efficacious for everyone.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I I think that the majority of the skincare brands that I'm paying attention to are prioritizing that in their in their forms of it.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like the clinical side of it, like the clinical skincare.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean I get it.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I I'm a huge fan of clinical grade skincare and medical grade skincare, obviously.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I love it.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: I love good science behind anything, you know, really anything, you know, not just beauty.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: I just, for me, I think I get stuck because, you know, what growing once again, um, growing up in the 90s, I remember, you know, when I first came to America, like some of the first friends I had were black.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember at the time those girls were using the these lip glosses.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you remember those lip glosses in the pots, like little um, like they were like little uh like mini measure pots.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: We see them all the time now.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember thinking at the time it smelled like watermelon, and I was obsessed with it.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: And now I'll pick up a product and it's like, oh, it smells like watermelon and it's a gloss.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm like, people were doing this back in 1992, you know, and they just weren't um they those brands just weren't like billion-dollar brands, and you know, and and that's what I I get stuck on because I feel like there's a lot of like reinvention of the wheel kind of thing happening, and I and I it's like people who are getting credit for these things, like they weren't even the original people to come up with it, you know what I'm saying?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that that ties a lot into some of the societal um problems that we're encountering in the beauty space because you know, you want to give credit for like people want to give credit for things that are like, I guess they look new and innovative, but really they've been done before, just nobody wanted to recognize it before, you know?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, credit, you need to give credit where credit is due, and everything in fashion and beauty is recycled in some small way in terms of like trends.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: But now I think that um the person behind the brand is now much more important.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: And back in the 90s, if that person didn't conform to sort of a Eurocentric standard of beauty, it was not given the love in the media or from a wider audience that it deserved.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with you.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And also, you know, I want to touch on this because I think it's a pretty interesting topic that's come up in the last, I guess, last five years or so, um, is the idea of body image.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I know a lot of brands are now tying themselves with this idea of body positivity on, you know, in different ways in on different facets.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I um I want to ask you as an editor, like, you know, when you see this, like you when you see a brand that is kind of promoting that, um, do you feel like it's becoming redundant or do you think that it's um something that we there can't ever be enough of?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: I have such strong thoughts on this topic.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: Good, please share them.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: But I I also I it's hard for me to engage in this conversation because I conform to what would be quote unquote um at least in the 90s, like an ideal body type or like what the fashion industry thinks is like in because I oh yeah, girl, we had Barbie.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: We had Barbie.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like I I'm just you know, that's what I look like.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um I come by it honestly, that's what my mom looked like at my age too.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm I'm really passionate about this topic, but it's really hard to discuss because my voice is not the one that should be loudest.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: But since we're obviously having this conversation, I'll talk about it.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think that the body positivity movement is a really sticky subject, and I think that on the brand side, it's sort of being commodified and in some ways weaponized in a way to still make women feel bad and excluded.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Erica Hart, who's um a sex educator and advocate, has a lot of interesting points on this topic.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I look to her to see what sorts of conversations she's engaging with her audience with, but I think that it has a long way to go.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I try to look at this movement not in terms of body positivity, but in a sort of in the way of like radical self-love.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and self-acceptance, yeah, unconditional self-acceptance.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: I completely get you, and I you know, and I know it's a little, it's it's one of those topics that you know, I even I hesitate a lot, you know, when I talk about this.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I completely, completely get you.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you so much for for entertaining this question because you know, um, for me, I think, yes, I I believe body positivity is extremely important, obviously, right?
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: As a woman, like we all want everybody to feel beautiful.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: But when you're using something such that is such a strong message that should be conveyed to young women and you're using it for the benefit of selling products, that's where I get really pissed off.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I I don't want that to be a thing that you're monetizing on just because you think it's a trend and it's it's like, you know, it's it's a thing that's happening and everyone's gonna buy into it and all this stuff.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of companies at one point were doing that.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I'm not saying that there weren't genuine, you know, initiatives towards body positivity and you know self-acceptance and self-love.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not even saying I'm not saying that at all, but I think there's a huge difference between saying accept yourself as a human being versus again reinforcing the idea that women should feel okay with their bodies.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Of course we should.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you keep saying that?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: And in a weird way, it almost makes you feel bad for having days where you were like, I don't feel good about myself today.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like I ate an entire bag of Cheetos last night and drank beer and didn't like get out of like get off of my couch.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: And we're saying that I have to love myself in every single form, no matter how I feel.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: And you are at liberty to have moments where you don't feel great, and that's okay.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you you have to After you devour an entire place, you're not gonna feel okay about your body.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: You're allowed to feel the way you feel when you feel it, and you don't have to apologize for it.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that the body positivity movement movement, like any other movement or quote unquote trend, will eventually be commodified and monetized by either the beauty industry, the fashion industry, the wellness industry.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, brands have to find a way to, yeah, every industry.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: Brands have to find a way to connect to their audience and you know, God love them.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: They're they're trying to um interact with their audience, but it's very clear, I think, to consumers and readers when something is organic and when something is forced.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, and I hope that every time I see a new brand, I always hope for that because I think people really want to believe.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, growing up in the in the age of like, you know, TV commercials and like Q, you know, QVC and all that, like I understand like when you see something on TV or an advertisement and you're like, wow, this really resonates with me.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's one thing, but then to feel like something does resonate and then you don't get any results.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's a whole different thing, and that's I think what I was trying to go towards.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I agree with you.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree with what everything you said.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: As a weird aside, since you mentioned it, I fully stand QVC.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think people give it enough credit.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: Buying things off QVC, they have a really rigorous vetting process.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, QVC is like the OG when it comes to like selling beauty.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what people want.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I I bought so many things from I I remember just sitting in front of my my TV screen, be like, Mom, I want this, this, this, and this.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, like every single one.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think it it's thought of sort of as like basic compared to these brands that like grow organically on Instagram.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm like, QVC knows what they're talking about.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that no, they really do.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, I I wanna I wanna ask you because I think it's it's important to get this message out there is um when it comes to entrepreneurship, right?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: And like say there's like a young woman and she finally finds a brand, she really wants to feel like, you know, um, does she feel like this is something I really, really um think is a great product?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I'm actually speaking about a brand I know of, and I'm I'm I'm just asking for your opinion um in general without naming any names.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: She really believes in this brand, it's a great product.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: She doesn't have the funding to, you know what I mean, go into the big PR firms and get people to like really pump her products, but it's a really good product.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: As an editor, what would your advice be to somebody like that, and a young entrepreneur like that, so that they can get recognized in the media world and the editorial world?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: I just had a call with someone the other day about this exact topic.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's so funny that you're bringing it up.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um they they were asking the exact same thing.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: They do consulting um to try to help young brands get off get off the ground.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I I wish there was like a magic answer that would mean you would uh spark the attention of every single editor whose inbox you like clawed your way into.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't think it's possible, but I think that staying um true to the DNA of the brand for as long as you can and having those organic interactions with your community, building it up.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: Social media is such a powerful tool, and especially for young founders, you know, every generation is more literate in that world than the one before.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: So utilize that, you know, make those connections, make those TikTok videos.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um have podcasts, have conversations, make videos with people that you admire in the space, um, reach out to people via email, via DM.
• 30:04
  unknown: Yeah.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think that when you have something that's really, really good and you are persistent, um, people people will start to take notice.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's a lot of stuff out there.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: Editors are we have fine-tuned our bullshit detectors.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's just a matter of getting our eyeballs on something.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: But like I've discovered brands simply because I see people tagging it on Instagram or it showed up on like a Pinterest save.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, these days the algorithms are crazy out of control good.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I feel like every time I find like a science-backed skincare line, there's like 18 other suggestions.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, so yeah.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't think that you need to go out and get a publicist right away because that's super expensive.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think that especially younger generations, you're so savvy and you're so tech-wise.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like use those skills to basically hoodwink the older generation into getting your your product in front of them because there's not one way to build a brand anymore.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that that's a very good thing.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I that's very good advice.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for that.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, because I I interview, for example, I'll interview every brand, you know, regardless of how big or small you are.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and I know a lot of smaller brands almost I and I honestly, Hannah, I blame the industry right now a little bit for it because there's just so many products, you know what I mean?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's intimidating for small and like new entrepreneurs because they're like, crap, like what if my product just gets, you know what I mean?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like fl like just lost in this flood of of stuff.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like, you know, when you have a really good product, um, it's almost as if like, you know, you have to go the extra mile to even like put that in the right hands, you know, like, hey, like l look at my stuff.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: It really is better than the night, like the 90 other brands that you've tried, that kind of thing.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I find that to be interesting.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: Hopefully, your product is filling a hole in the market.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I don't think anyone should go out and start a beauty brand just because they think it sounds cool.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think you should be solving a problem, answering a question, um, filling a need for someone, or especially for a lot of emerging brands, um they're creating the products that they themselves wanted to see when they were younger and didn't.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I think you should first ask yourself why you're doing this and then hold on to that conviction and just be really, really persistent.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: This industry is brutal, yeah, but it can it can pay off in the end.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone listening out there, please take heed to Hannah's advice because honestly, I know there's a lot of uh new entrepreneurs out there, and I know you know everyone obviously believes in what you create.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I just I hope somebody really listens to your advice, Hannah, because and takes it because I I've I've just heard a lot of, you know, I don't want to say sob stories, but just oh, I'm never gonna make it because of blah blah blah.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just like, dude, just keep going, you know, don't stop till you make it kind of thing.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, and um there will be more female VCs in the future.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: I love talking to female venture capitalists, and we need more women in the boardroom because clearly um beauty products and that whole space, it's not frivolous.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: You there is a lot of money to be made, which is what a VC is interested in.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: So the more women we can get into those rooms making those decisions, the better.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, 100%.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: Now I want to talk to you about inclusivity and and for one, I actually I don't want to talk about race, I want to talk about being a woman and inclusivity because I think it's very, very important that we this conversation, you know, needs to be had like as many times as possible.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: How has it been for you?
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as a woman, you know, I don't see when I look at people, I don't think about people's color, I just don't.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I it's you know, I was ra I was raised and educated internationally.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that has anything to do with it or if I'm just a normal person, but you know, like I just I don't think about that.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I know um one thing I want to focus on is women um, you know, really having their voices heard and really uh move the movement that's going on.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to know about the the editorial side of it.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that there are better conversations being had now in terms of um you know more women kind of speaking up and saying this is what we want to see rather than what you know whatever whatever the other vision is?
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think the editorial world is so interesting because you know, the the staff at a lot of these titles is primarily, if not entirely, female.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I think I've worked with three men at any fashion and beauty publication or brand in my entire life.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that in and of itself is empowering because you're just surrounded by, you know, female energy.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: But the longer that you consider where you're working for a lot of these places, and especially the heritage brands, the higher up the food chain you go, the less women you'll find.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: So there's clearly still a problem because change happens when money is involved.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like that sounds really depressing, and you can talk about change, but like if you want to talk about tangible change that lasts longer than like a trend cycle, unfortunately, you have to have people with budget.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: And in order to ensure that women's um priorities, which sounds really dumb because I feel like the things that women care about, everyone should care about, but yeah, it's like a human thing, like we just we want certain things, but we also like to wear lipstick to an important meeting, maybe.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: So we just we need to have women in those spaces, and I think especially since the Me Too movement, there has been this sort of larger call and reckoning in the space, and there have been stories coming out throughout the industry.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think you can look at things that have happened at Hearst and Condinast.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to speak to anything specifically, but you know, there have been men, public-facing men and men behind the scenes who have been problematic.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: And luckily, there have been brave people, women and men, um, who have spoken up and brought that to people's attention.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, you can't really sweep that under the rug in sort of a madmen way anymore.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's important.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's a very big see, I and I I think this is such an important conversation because I'm not gonna lie to you.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like, and I I hope I don't get a lot of hate for this, but I feel like there are other minority groups, and this is not not racial when I say this, that have gotten more progress in their, you know, in their movement than women have in the years that we've been fighting for women women's rights.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like I feel like there's been more like rapid progress made for a lot of different groups than than um you know for women.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and and I think that that's ridiculous.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: I know for me, you know, I'm not, obviously, I'm not in the editorial world, but you know, in medicine, I know, even to this day, you're gonna have, you know, like eight of your mentors are gonna be male.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: And they're going to say things like, you know, I've had somebody tell me, well, are you gonna have kids?
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: If not, you should forget about it because you're about to cross that age and this this residency program's gonna be this many years.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: Those kind of statements.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just like rude.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's really fucking rude.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, you know, it's just like, but it's reality.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, you know, when you brought up the whole idea of like, well, you need money to make change.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: I I can sit here and tell you that that's true.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because my parents, as immigrants that came to this country, my father is extremely accomplished.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: And one thing my dad told me was, you want to make a change in this world?
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do you really want to make a change?
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: Then you need to go out there and get a career that's gonna be stable enough to where you have money to make a change because no one listens till you do.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I, and you know, the more and more like I go through life as a woman, I see that.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why, you know, that's why I bring this up.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I know I get very heated, but it's like I've seen like smaller minority groups, which is great, progress is progress, go progress.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like as women, I feel like we're still fighting tooth and nail for every achievement and every like, you know what I mean, like every step forward.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I just don't get why.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think that it need people need to step aside and really be like, let our day is gone.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: Let them have their moment now, you know?
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and I think it should be a thing where the the movements should all help each other, you know.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: We're all working towards a common goal of having equal access, an equal place, a seat at the table.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I'm hopeful that we can find inspiration from each other and like spur those movements because you know, there's a lot of people who don't belong to one or the other, you know, women of color are fighting double the battles, and they're allowed to be so much more exhausted than the rest of us already feel.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I hope that it's an opportunity, and I'm passionate about it as well.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I grew up, I never thought that I wouldn't be able to achieve something just because I was a woman.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_02: I don't subscribe to that idea.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: For the men that I've been around in my life, they're either very supportive or I'm 99% sure that I'm smarter than them.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I love that you said that.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very confident in who I am and what I do, and um being a woman is a point of pride for me, and it's nice to be in this industry where that is so celebrated, and we're working on ways to make sure that all female identifying people are included, and now it's we're getting to a point where we're welcoming men in because men who want to participate in the beauty industry are fighting for their ability to do so without you know receiving hatred or feedback.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: So it it's an interesting vantage point of being a woman in this industry because you can kind of see it from all sides, but um right, right.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: No, I totally get it.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can do it.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: I totally I get you, and and you know, I think it's I think it's just something that we're gonna have to wait and see how it goes.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I I can't wait till the day where we look at each other as just human beings, you know what I'm saying?
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's really where and I love brands, like you know, I can even tie this into like um some of the brands that I've you know come across, I'm sure you've come across way more, um, you know, that are very like gender neutral and they're very there's no like there's no message there that's like kind of like categorizing you or putting you in a box, you know what I'm saying?
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's like it almost gives you more power.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: It it like I found I find those brands to be more empowering than a brand that is like all pink and what you know it's super women friendly, but it's like only for women, you know what I mean?
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like that kind of thing.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's I find it to be a lot more empowering to just pick up something that I feel like I don't have to worry about what color it is or how the packaging looks or whatever, like and you know, wonder am I supposed to be using this or not?
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think the gender neutral thing is definitely um a step in the right direction.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do you feel about that?
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like those kind of brands.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_02: I it's a complicated question because on one hand, I don't think that a a product's color scheme or overall design should be gendered in the way that we think of like little kids' toys are like girls' toys are just like pink and it's like kitchen sets and all this stuff, and boys are like blue, and it's like monster trucks and like all the cuts.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: And like obviously, I think that dissipates a little bit as you get older, but I I see products designed more for their overall aesthetics, with gender not really being a factor, and whether or not they they themselves claim to be gender neutral, like if if they're marketing themselves that way, that's great.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, more power to you, but I also don't believe that any one product, unless it's like dealing with your genitals, can be used by like the opposite gender.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and actually, you know what?
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now that you brought up the genital part, I just want to say I interviewed Urja Beauty Founders and I love their line.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: Their packaging is perfect, even though it's for female, you know what I mean?
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's for female parts and for you know health, women's health.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: They I love that they didn't make it all pink and glittery, and you know what I mean?
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's just like a very sophisticated line.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm so fascinated by gendered packaging, especially in like the more mass market body care space.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think the joke is like if you look at women's deodorant names, it's like like cotton bud flower and like fashion field whimsy, and men it's like sharknado, and like choose a map to like cut through your body odor.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Jesus Christ, like axe, yeah.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like we all think the same thing.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: No one wants to think about an axe when you put on deodorant.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, maybe that's why I stopped using deodorant.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, but yeah, I mean hey, why not?
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and then there's always that.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: See, you know what confused me about deodorant?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Super side tangent by the way, but like the whole when you know the whole thing happened with aluminum free, um, everything free, but it still protects you.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, really?
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like I'm just rubbing butter on my armpits now.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't think this is doing anything.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't use antiperspirants or deodorant because I accidentally used, oh my god, he's gonna kill me for saying this, but my partner's feet get really sweaty.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: So he got like an industrial grade foot antiperspirant thing.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I had like a wedding or something to go to where I was like, I can't sweat, and it's July, and I don't have antiperspirant in the apartment.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I used that, and I ended up, I thought I had breast cancer because I ended up putting a lump in my armpit under both armpits that was like the size of a penny.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: I could grab it, and it was because I hadn't used antiperspirant for so long that my pores were so clogged.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, meltdown.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, so I I don't use deodorant antiperspirant anymore.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: I actually use um a BHA formula to like kill the bacteria that actually causes odor.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: But ever since then, I like can't use any antiperspirant because I just had like my life flashed before my eyes when I mean, yeah, dude.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: You had like giant, yeah, that's like a lymph node, like yeah.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: So like lateral lymph node, words check.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the girl with the gorilla glue hair.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, really check the product that you're using before you apply it to your body.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's like consumer education, I think, is where we need to focus at this point.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, read the label, you guys.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: Just yeah, read the label, please.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody out there, uh, make smart decisions.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: Don't eat glue.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: Don't eat glue, don't use stuff on your feet that's supposed to keep your feet for your underarms.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, Hannah, honestly, I could talk to you all day.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: You're awesome, and I love that you're from the Midwest.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna have to connect again very soon.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_02: So where in the Midwest are you from?
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: I actually grew up in Cincinnati, Ohio.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love Ohio people.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: My partner's from Ohio.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm from St.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: Louis.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, awesome! Yeah, no, I I love Midwest in general, dude.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: I really do.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: We're just we're a good group of people.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_02: We somehow all find each other.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: We do.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm we always run into it's it's the persona, it's the personalities though, Hannah.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I you can tell, you know what I mean?
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: Immediate, especially if you're living in like New York or Florida or California, like you know immediately, like, okay, yeah, this person is from my my area of the country.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, our auras just find each other.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's weird.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_02: We're like fireflies.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: And we have a lot of those in the Midwest too.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, we are fireflies.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, so everybody out there listening, I hope you enjoyed this episode.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: If you have any questions for Hannah, please leave them on our podcast art for this episode, and I will pass them along to her if she has time.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: I know she gets um a lot of emails as she told us, but um leave us some comments, some feedback, um, let us know how we're doing, and we'll be back next time.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Hannah.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 47:10
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