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Why Does Everything Keep Coming Back to Me? · The Pause Before You Lead

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_04: What we haven't talked about is the discomfort in learning, right?
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_04: And and so and maybe some of the leaders listening to this will resonate.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_04: We don't want to watch people struggle.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_04: So if I can help you not struggle, that's me helping.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_04: But but then but then the paradox of that is that it's in the struggle where the growth happens, that it's in the discomfort where we stretch ourselves and we realize what we can.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_04: So the tighter I hold on to my old patterns, the more I prevent other people on the team from discovering what they could be capable of.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm like, I'm creating bottlenecks everywhere in that operating model.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, and welcome to the Pause Before You Lead.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Alicia Saint, and I'm Heather Haig.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: Together, we've both led teams inside large organizations.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: And over the past decade, we've coached and partnered with hundreds of leaders and teams navigating complexity.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: We've seen, felt, heard, and supported leaders through the challenging and sometimes really messy parts of leadership.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: And while a lot has changed, many of the patterns that quietly take leaders off track just keep showing up.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_04: We work with leaders who don't want to lose momentum, but who know that clearer thinking is what makes momentum sustainable.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_04: This podcast is for leaders who are moving fast, leading teams, and making decisions under constant pressure.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_04: And leaders who know there's a better way to think, lead, and respond in those moments.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: Each week, we bring you real conversations drawn from our work with leaders and teams, where speed matters, stakes are high, and the quality of your thinking shapes everything.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: So in each episode, we're going to pause just long enough to think more clearly, to see what's really going on, make better decisions, and build high-value teams.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_04: Whether you're listening before the day takes over, on your way to work, or in the middle of a full day, this is your pause without losing momentum.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_04: So, before we begin, take a breath and join us.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_04: And welcome to this week's Pause Before You Lead.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_04: This episode, we're talking about the fixer mindset, why leaders struggle to let people learn.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_04: I'm Heather Haig.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_04: I'm Alicia Saint.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_04: Join us for this conversation as we explore what gets in the way of letting our people learn.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_04: So as we're diving in, we'll just pose a question for a brief moment to pause.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_04: How might the very thing or things that made you successful up till now be getting in the way or limiting both you and your team?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe something comes to mind right away.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_04: Alicia, I know you've got a story to kick us off as we explore how our fixer mindsets can get in the way of people learning.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I have a couple, I think, of uh things that come to mind.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, fixer mindset.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: So fixer is you're coming into rescue.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_03: You're coming in to remove the struggle, to reduce the friction, to create the harmony.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: And it feels really good, you know, like you're I'm coming, I'm on the white horse.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_03: I'm the knight on the white horse, right?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and again, it ties very strongly into my leadership style, which is as a connection, as a connector.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: And this is coming up.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, I'm thinking about my story because what I've noticed in the last number of my clients is this is a common struggle.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_03: So my value and my identity as a leader is I fix things, I get things done, I smooth things out, I reduce the friction, I get everyone working together, being in harmony.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_03: And great, that got you here.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: And now you're being asked as a leader, yes, and can you lead the team through this complexity, through this challenge, through this transformation?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, and can you create the strategic vision for the next three years?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we have to think about resources, restructuring, you know.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_03: So we also want you to do that, and we want you to think about really creating a learning culture that can deal with this ambiguity and this complexity.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_03: So, so, and that, right?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_03: And that.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, again, it's like, but I do the work, like I'm the glue, I'm the fixer, I'm the glue.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm I'm deep into everything, right?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm managing, I'm moving, I'm uh you could probably call it manipulating sometimes too, right?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: And that's my that's my go-to, that's my identity, that's the value I create.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: Now you want me to let other people do more of that work, and I have to be more strategic and forward thinking and future and managing the team.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: And all of a sudden I'm like, but how do I let go of that?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_03: Because that was that's how I got here.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: That was my success formula, right?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: So, and I think work, the work of today, the leadership of today is asking for how can you be agile and nimble and innovative and creative, because every day is like a new day sometimes, right?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like that got changed and AI and tariffs, and you name it is coming in, and what was happening last week might be completely, not completely, but significantly changed.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like, whoa, there's a lot.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I personally can relate because of my leadership style into these leaders that I'm working with, and they're like, How do where do I go?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like they just feel like they're turning in circles a little bit, right?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's learning culture in a fixer mindset, the fixer mindset prevents learning because it's a rescuing, right?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's a I'll come in and save us.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: I can I can just steer us.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and so much of the value um reward, right?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_04: The the status that has been attained has been through the problem solving and the fixation and the being the go-to person, right?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_04: I remember I remember being so proud of my go-to person's status.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_04: Like, like being the one that people could rely on to get stuff done.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_04: That identity was really hard to let go of, whether it's as a coach and knowing that I don't have all the answers, that the client has the answers, or as a leader, where you start to recognize how might my stepping in and solving and and the ease with which I've done that be preventing other people from discovering that for themselves.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that that's that's that really difficult stretch, whether it's um advisors on a team because they built the business themselves, so they they're so used to doing it all and how hard it is to shift that identity for them, or leaders within organizations, whether they're at the management or executive levels, like the what's being asked of you at this next stage requires a little bit of letting go so that others can discover the how of it for themselves.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that that I think that we we think that we're so great in supporting other people in their development, but we may not recognize uh solving all the problems could be getting in the way.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that that's a theme, that's a thread that that often when leaders are having that struggle, you talk about, which is I'm supposed to be strategic, I'm supposed to be forward thinking, I'm supposed to be right guiding and and and setting the setting the priorities, and but I'm also constantly in the weeds, right?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_04: Into into all the weeds, and how do I stop being in the weeds?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_04: It's like where is identity preventing that shift?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, because the things I value about myself are tied to those old behaviors, those old patterns.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_04: And interestingly, and I think this is the the the I have felt this frustration, and I've seen some of the leaders I work with feel this frustration of I'm really I really want them to be as committed as I am.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_04: I want them to be, you know, as invested as I am.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_04: And and it's hard to notice that you might be the bottleneck, you might actually be the thing that's preventing them from taking that full ownership because they haven't grown into the ability to own it in their own way.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_04: Like us fixing, solving, stepping in gets in the way of that.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_04: I see you smiling.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_03: You know why?
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: Because I just, as you said that, I thought about you and I in this conversation this morning.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: And how we still are trying to fix, and we're coaches, and we're thinking about, you know, wanting it more than you know, they do, and you know, how do we empower them?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: And it it's yeah, yeah, it's it's um, it's a tough one.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: It it really is a tough one because the learning culture, the learning, the learning is what is going to unlock.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_03: The learning will unlock.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_03: And it's unlearning, it's learning something new, right?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: So it's unlearning, you know, we used to spend you know four weeks doing budgets.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: Really, why?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_03: Four weeks, four months, actually.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: I should say four months, right?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: So it's uh being able to let go of that identity, that value, right?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_03: And step into this what what do we know?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_03: What don't we know?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_03: That and I know it's you're gonna hear some of the curiosity that we talk about a lot in the learner mindset.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's all interwoven here, isn't it?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_04: It there there is there is there are threads all the way through this.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_04: I think the unlearning really triggered something for me because the leader needs to unlearn what made them valuable individual contributors so that they can learn how to be more strategic, how to be more big picture, how to, right?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_04: Like you gotta unlearn the what was a natural, almost innate.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_04: I don't have to think about it anymore.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_04: The weeds are such a natural, comfortable place to be because I'm so good at it.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_04: And I have to unlearn that part so that I can be open to learning something new, which is gonna make me uncomfortable.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_04: What we haven't talked about is the discomfort in learning, right?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_04: And and so and maybe some of the leaders listening to this will resonate.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_04: We don't want to watch people struggle.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_04: So if I can help you not struggle, that's me helping.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_04: But but then but then the paradox of that is that it's in the struggle where the growth happens, that it's in the discomfort where we stretch ourselves and we realize what we can.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_04: So the tighter I hold on to my old patterns, the more I prevent other people on the team from discovering what they could be capable of.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm like, I'm creating bottlenecks everywhere in that operating model.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_04: And I know we we talked about this a little bit before stepping into this conversation, but I'm I I have to I have to just share it.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_04: When you and I started working together in that natural, I had, I was like PowerPoint person, like I was the goat.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_04: You were like, Heather, you're great with PowerPoint, you do that, I'll do this that I'm good at.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_04: And we were both like, yeah, yeah, right?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_04: You do what you're good at, I'll do what I'm good.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_04: But what happened for both of us is not boredom, but it's a little bit like we're staying super comfortable, aren't we?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_04: Versus a, and you finally, you finally said it to me.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_04: You were like, Heather, if you keep doing the PowerPoint, I'm never gonna get good at this.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_04: Can I take this over?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_04: And I felt the resistance in that because it was like, well, that's part of my identity.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_04: Wait a second.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_04: You're taking something.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_04: But then, but then the freedom that comes from me like releasing that, you're gonna learn something.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_04: It won't, you won't do it the way I did it.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_04: I need to be okay with that.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_04: But also what it frees me up for, which is for me to take on something I'm not good at yet, which I would never tackle if I keep holding on to the stuff that's so comfortable.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_04: So just I wanted to bring that the the discomfort and that we know growth happens in the discomfort and just how easy it is to sit in that comfort zone of old patterns.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_03: Which is why we started fixing in the first place.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's it it's reducing the struggle.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:33
  unknown: Yeah.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_04: But nobody grows.
• 14:36
  unknown: Right.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: And how many leaders, right?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_03: Myself included, how many I'll just do it.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_03: I'll just do it.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: It's okay.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: Don't you've got so much on your plate.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's okay.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_03: Just I I can do it in half the time.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: Got it.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: So what can what can we do?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so assuming that there's a lot of people listening to us right now going, yeah, got it.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: All right, so now where do I go to next?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: Where do you go to next?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just thinking because there's so many different ways you can go on this one, right?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: Is um it's the pause that says I could still do it.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: And is that where my unique value really is?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: Or another question might be is that the value that I've been asked to provide or create?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_03: I could quickly get that report done.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: Or I could delegate it.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: It might take longer, I'm gonna have to teach them, right?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's faster if I just do it, rescue fix.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: However, my boss keeps waiting for me to present, you know, the structure for next year, right?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_03: Or the budget for next year, and I just can't get to it.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so there's your pause, right?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_03: There's the moment that says there is a struggle, it probably would be faster to just do it.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: But is that the value?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: Is that the identity that you're actually being asked for?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and I and I love the questions you've posed.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_04: And if I can build upon that for a moment, it is faster in the short term, but the dependency you've created by you not allowing someone else to learn how to do that is it's always gonna fall to you.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_04: And so we create these patterns that we later might resent or we might feel overwhelmed by because we're holding on to all these things.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_04: We're not willing to let someone else learn how to do, which may be slower in the moment, but longer term, does it not free us up to be more purposeful, intentional?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like, how can we shift the thinking around this from uh my value is fixing all the problems to my value is being able to give space for strategic thinking, being able to give space to um have a thoughtful coaching conversation versus being in the weeds of all the doing, doing, doing.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, it does, it does slow things down, which may feel painfully slow in the moment, but how might that be freeing up for greater momentum in the future?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_04: Where the fast solve now is like the band-aid we put on the the wound that never heals.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_04: It's like it's the quick fix, but it doesn't solve our longer-term challenge.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: And and and is preventing the learning culture because you keep just holding on, and all you're doing is adding, you keep adding, so you're gonna still do all that, plus you're now you're gonna take on the strategic and you're gonna take on the structure, and you're gonna take on, which you don't have time for.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: Somehow you're trying to find carved time, but you're just making your plate overflow, even more so.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: You're trying to learn, but also hold on.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_03: And so you're not learning properly, you're not giving yourself the space to learn, and you're not giving the space or time for your team to learn.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and I think as you bring, as we sort of bring team into the conversation in it, we know, like the research and the data tells us that top performers will leave that environment if they don't feel challenged.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_04: So, what we are in in our attempt to help fix, solve, make things move faster, we've hired these great people, and they're going to potentially feel disengaged, unchallenged, like there's limited opportunities for their own growth and development.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_04: And we may even be contributing to attrition unintentionally.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_04: So, like thinking that longer-term impact of isn't is it not my responsibility, almost obligation, to ensure people on my team are learning and I'm getting out of their way.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: And and I just had a thought with with what you said there was how can we let go of the fear of the struggle, the fear of the tension, the fear of the uncomfortable, both for ourselves and for whoever we're delegating to or empowering, right?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: In order to foster the learning, right?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_04: Foster it.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_04: I think it even if we get into sort of the how of this, which which we started to explore, how do you shift?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_04: We know part of it's an identity.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_04: So working on our own identity and redefining our identity.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_04: The other pieces, even just thinking about the kinds of questions that you're asking from a how can I help?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_04: What can I do to make things better for you?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_04: Like, like there's so much language in that identity as fixer that comes in and creates the continued dependency, even when you think you're inviting some learning, versus a focusing on that person, right?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_04: If you were to take an approach to this, how might you right?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_04: Knowing it's uncomfortable right now, what would what what could you do to help you?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_04: Not what can I do to help you, right?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_04: Which is the old model of fixing and solving is what well, how can I help?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_04: How can I fix it for you to a real empowering, right?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_04: So let's even if we take that model of the PowerPoint and you say, Heather, you gotta let me, I've got, I need to start to do this myself.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_04: The question is not how can I help you with that?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_04: Because that's me still getting in the way versus a so how do you want to get started with that?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_04: Sounds like you want to take on a new challenge.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_04: What does that look like for you?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_04: If it starts to feel uncomfortable, what resources are available to you?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_04: Not a me offering me, but a that that sort of redirect.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um because I hear so much in the conversations that I have, that fixer language keeps showing up, even though the intention is I want, I want people on my team to learn how.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:50
  unknown: Yeah.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: And and really, yeah, I I'm just having this this image of uh uh wondering if this might be helpful.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: If you project yourself six months ahead and you're sitting in your performance review, right, with your boss, and he's like, Well, where was the strategic plan?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: Where, you know, we don't, we still don't have a structure, we still don't have a budget.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_03: We, you know what I mean?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: And you sit, and just imagine you're sitting there going, Yeah, but we got all the reports out on time, and and we built this great dashboard, and and you know what I mean?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's it's again, maybe just giving yourself that time to pause and really reflect and go, in six months from now, there's a lot can happen six months from now.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: If you don't make a change, if you don't start to redefine success, your value, your identity, and we're not talking about throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: No, we're talking about an an evolve, evolving, not transforming, evolving.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: What does that start to look like?
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: And what is where, you know, asking yourself, where do I overhelp?
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_03: Where am I fixing a lot, rescuing a lot, and noticing your own discomfort with like, I just hear that all the time.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: I was the same.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't want to delegate because I just felt terrible.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, but they're so they have so much on their plate.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: So do you.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like, so did I.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: But somehow it was okay for me to work 12 hours a day, but it wasn't okay for them to work 12 hours a day.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and then I'm not saying that we want them working 12 hours.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not saying that.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_04: I mean that's not right for anyone, but delegating for creating overwhelm is not the answer either.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_04: So, I mean, that's a conversation for another day.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_04: But you know, I think I think that it's it it allows us to say, so if if I'm carrying things that should be or could be uh empowering my team to grow, to develop, because we've had that conversation, right?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_04: We've talked about what does growth look like for you, what's the stretch you want to work on, what's the part that's uncomfortable that if six months from now you were celebrating that growth.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_04: Now we align some of those opportunities to let let those individuals shine.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_04: That's not a dumping of more.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's it's a it's it's a it's part of the learning process to say, so what are you carrying then that is no longer serving, like maybe that person's doing work they they don't need to be doing, someone else can be doing, like you start to be able to align the roles and responsibilities in a different way and and perhaps even expand the team further when you identify gaps.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_04: But when you when when the leader is the bottleneck holding everything, um, because that's the identity that they've associated with, and we've both done this, we recognize this work, and it's we're still working progress, right?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_04: Sometimes we're still the bottlenecks in certain situations.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_04: It uh it's how do we help our team, the members of our team, do their own work, do their own thinking, do their own growth.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_04: And you mentioned this earlier, but I kind of just bring it back to that culture of learning.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_03: We're turning on the engine of our new creating new value and a new identity, right, which empowers us and empowers those that we work with, right?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not about yeah, it's just taking the pause to really ask yourself am I creating a lot, too much dependency on me?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: Because I love to fix, I love to rescue, I love to get the shit done.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_03: And uh that's you know, that feels good.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: It feels good striking all that stuff off my to-do list because I can do it fast.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_03: Do it fast, right?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_03: And meanwhile, you're avoiding the learning opportunity, the additional value and identity that you're being asked to create, right?
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_03: Which is that strategic leader.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_04: So And you know, it's it's interesting because I think that that that desire to fix and solve um to help prevent people from learning through discomfort.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_04: Like there's also this great opportunity for leaders to model the discomfort of their their own learning, right?
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_04: That to actually normalize discomfort.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_04: And I know we've had a few leaders that we've worked with who've said that like when you start to normalize the discomfort of that comes with growth, and we no longer make this something to avoid or prevent, but to actually recognize that in our growth and development from the place of what we are really comfortable doing to the new place of what we have the potential to become, in the middle of that is a lot of discomfort that we can call fear, we can call feeling not capable, feeling like there's a not enough thing that kind of surfaces in the middle of that.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_04: But the leaders taking on the role of normalizing that discomfort and maybe supporting people through it rather than trying to prevent it.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_04: Mm-hmm.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_03: So I think we've given our listeners a lot to pause, reflect upon, and to reflect upon and to ask themselves some questions about where might I be a fixer?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: What is my value and identity now?
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_03: And what does it where do we where do I want to and need to begin to create a shift?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, create that learning culture and that where not only is it about everyone relying on my capability as the leader, but where I'm actually empowering my team to discover and reveal what they're capable of.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_03: To become a system, a system that is reliable, reliant on each other.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_04: Shared ownership and accountability.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_04: So some really cool things that can surface from that once that once the recognition of what's happening in the system takes place, or we realize maybe I'm preventing the growth I'm seeking in my people.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_04: Awesome.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, thank you.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_04: Look forward to the next one.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks everybody, and don't forget to pause before you lead.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks for joining the pause before you lead.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_04: If this conversation sparked something for you, share it.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_04: Because more leaders need space to think clearly in the moments that matter.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_03: Follow or subscribe so you don't miss an episode and let us know what's on your mind.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_03: We shape these conversations for you.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_04: Before you move on to what's next, pause.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_04: Just for a moment.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_03: And notice what might change if you led from here.