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12 of the Hottest Emo Hot Takes · The BlackSheep Podcast: Presented by HM Magazine

• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Stretched we've got our good friends Lindsey and Meg with us.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Both of you have been on the podcast before. Uh
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: so you're no strangers of the podcast. Uh so, Meg,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: can you just say what you do in the world?
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: What what you I don't know what what's your introduction
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: to emo music? Because what we'll talk about all emo today?
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: But yeah, what's your introduction to emo music?
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: Maybe? Maybe?
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Actually? Yeah, like, what what's the first emo band that
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: you listen to?
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: You think?
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, you didn't tell us. You're gonna ask us that. Well,
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: what I do in the world is I'm an English
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: lit teacher for high school students and I also DJ
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: once a month a goth night at a local like venue.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: I am in a band that is very tiny. But uh,
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to think, Oh, I actually have an answer.
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: I just realized. The first time I ever heard the
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: term emo, I was like fourteen and very in the
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: throes of being obsessed with Scott Like that was pretty
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: much all I was listening to. Besides the little pop punk.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: I was really really into Reliant K at the time
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: because they were, you know, not as raw she as
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: those Blink boys. So I listened to two over lank
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: k but I had like a boyfriend at the time,
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: you know, freshman year. Of course those relationships are super formative.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: And his older sister asked me if I liked any
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: emo and I said, what is that? Is that like Scott?
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: And she said not even a little bit. Do you
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: know who? Do you know who the Juliana Theory is?
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: And I said no, And so she showed me Juliana Theory.
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: So that is the first EMO band. Obviously you know
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: christian Ish emo band, but that was the first was
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: time I ever true gateway?
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Like did that like hook you right away? Or are
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: you're like, nah, this isn't for me.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: No, it actually did not. It wasn't my my like
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: it was like a horseshoe, I think for Emo a
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: little bit. For me, it wasn't until kind of later
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: in my freshman year. Some I think I shared this
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: with you guys, some dude that I met on AIM,
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: you know, because that's super safe as a freshman in
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: high school. What I found him from typing in the
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: words five iron frenzy in the first middle last name
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: of aol instant messenger. He told me, I used to
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: listen to Scott, but now I listened to more like
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: harder stuff, and I was like, well, okay, well like
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: who and he said under Oath. So I started listening
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: to under Oath. Then obviously they that was during Changing
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: of Times era. Then they came out with their only
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: Chasing Safety and then I realized, oh, like this is
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: scream o, Like this is like Emo, you know, screaming Emo.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: And then I got extremely into Emory, as you all know,
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: and so that was kind of my entryway into other EMO.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Good call interesting.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we very like distinctly Christian. I mean, like Juliana
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Theory to under Oath to Emory, like it was all
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: very and obviously I would imagine that like branched out
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: from that. But the fact that like Christian bands were
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: the bands that introduced you to that is pretty impressive.
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean I was in high school and I
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: was very very much into trying to follow Jesus as
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: a high school student, you know, as much as a
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: high school student can, and so I wanted music that
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: reflected my faith at least some degree. Didn't have to
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: be all like worship adjacent, but like, but yeah, I
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: just really thought, Wow, these bands are good and are
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: sometimes saying about stuff that I believe.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: In, you know, makes sense.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Love it and lindsay say, you know, say what you
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: do in the world, and then yeah, what what's the
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: band that introduced you to Emo?
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: Okay, so I am a freelance blogger. It's like a
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: marketing job that I just do from my basement. It's fantastic.
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: And yeah, so I think that my you know, journey
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: very much mirrored makes in a lot of ways. I
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: first really kind of dove into the Emo world whenever
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: I dated this guy in my high school who we
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: met through like Facebook, whenever Facebook was still kind of cool,
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: and he said that his name was Hazen. And then
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: I got to school on Sunday or on Mondays, Everybody's like, oh,
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: that's Emo Chris, and so it turns out that he
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: just made.
• 4:18
  Speaker 5: It, and like, I have a.
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: Million it is. Yeah, it was his middle name, but
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: he went by it. And I had to break up
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: with him because I brought him to church and he
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: started singing nothing but the Blood of Virgins over nothing
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: but the Blood of Jesus.
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: He sounds awesome.
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: Love Kylee's just like this is such a tangent. And
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: I broke up with him because I went over to
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: his house and he looked at me. He's like, what's
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: wrong with you? And I said nothing, and he goes,
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: do you want to come inside and watch a movie
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: with me? And I'm like okay. So he watched The
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: Prestige and he stopped it halfway through and he goes,
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: something's really wrong with you. What's up? I said, I
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: think we need a break up, and he goes, do
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: you want to finish watching this movie?
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: And we did, and so at least got to the
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: David Bowie part.
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we did. We did. I think we broke up
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: right at the bird scene. But anyway, amazing. So that
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: was emo Chris. He kind of started like getting me
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: into harder music, but mine was emery as well, and
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: because I yeah, I like got really into like Christian
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: emo music. And like there was a CD that Tooth
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: and Nail put out where it was one dark Summer
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: I think, and like half of it was Tooth and Nail,
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: the other half of solid State, and that's that's where
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: I first heard Paper Hanger by Me Without You, and
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: then from there I just like spiraled and here we
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: are nice?
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: I did that.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: I need to I need to add some fun fact
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: you you called your ex boyfriend Emo? What was his name? Emo?
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: Hazel Emo?
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: Chris Hazen was Chris?
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: Yes, there we go Emo Chris Okay Hazen. I am
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: about to go tomorrow to San Diego to Emery play
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: through all of the question with my friend Robbie, who
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: in high school was called Emo Robbie. I just needed
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: to share that in relation full circle here.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: That's incredible story.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: I would love I would love for you to just
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: show up to like Robbie's uh place of work and
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: just be like right in front of his coworkers, just
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: like Emo Robbie.
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: I don't know if he'd love that or hate that,
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: but probably love.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: That either way. You gotta do it.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: If you can't tell, we are going to do a
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: whole episode of Emo music and specifically Emo Hot takes.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: So we're all all four of us. We have three
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: hot takes about Emo music.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: How did you get into Ema? I don't know if
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: I've ever heard this story. You can't. You can't. You
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: can't think of our guests and then not deliver the
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: goods yourself.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: That's fair. I'm trying to think of, like, what were
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: maybe the first EMAO bns I ever heard. I mean,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: this might get into one of our hot takes, is
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: like what even qualifies for to eat for emo music?
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: But I'm trying to think like in terms of like
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: like what we maybe think of as like very distinctly emo,
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: because it was already mentioned about under Oath. I do
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: remember being in like fourth grade and listening to Reinventing
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Your Exit for the first time on Steel Roots. They
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: had their like top ten music video countdown, and so
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: I'm watching Still Roots and listening to this song, and
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: I knew, like there was part of me where I'm like,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: I don't like the fact that they're screaming, but I'm
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: so intrigued by it as well, and I didn't really
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: know what to do with it, and it was one
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: of those things that kind of like was an acquired taste.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: And then I had to obviously convince my mom that
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: this screaming music was Christian music as well, so so
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: that way I could listen to it. Yeah, that in
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: terms of like real like what we think of as
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: like really truly like warped to her kind of emo music,
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: that was probably like my first gateway to that around
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: that time, Like I would have been listening to Amberlin
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: as well as in May as well, like it all
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: kind of happened at the same time.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: Sure, sure, for me it was. It actually has to
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: do with a porta potty I was. I was in Minneapolis.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: I was in Minneapolis with my dad and for some
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: I don't remember where we were at or what we
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: were doing, but I went to a porta potty to
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: go to the bathroom. It's like two thousand and one
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: or two or something like that, and I saw this
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: flyer on the porta potty that said Jimmy Eat World
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Live on Saturday or something like that. I don't remember exactly,
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: but it's like, Jimmy Eat World. That's a cool band name.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: And then of course I saw The Middle on MTV
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: and that got my uh my gander up for a
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: number of different reasons because that music video is very
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: formative in a young boy's life. So but that's where
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: it started for me, so good times.
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: I remember my mom loved the song The Middle. When
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: I showed it to her, she was like, Oh, this
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: is such a good message. It's so positive. And then
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: it came on on MTV. I was like, this is
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: that song? And then I'm there like sitting in horror
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: as my mom was watching with me. She goes, why
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: did they have to do all of that? That's just
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: so unnecessary? Like no, I just got my mom to
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: like secular like EMAO, like pop punk and Jason stuff,
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: and now she's all disappointed.
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: I got in trouble. I got in trouble for listening
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: to Amber Lynn because my dad walked in and it
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: was complaints of violins become my only friends. And for
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: whatever reason he heard sex and violence are my only friends.
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, nice, that's not it. That's now what
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: it says. He's like, why are you listening to the scarbage?
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: It's like it's a Christian music.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Dad, you know what we hear what we want to hear.
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: Right, I'm gonna text him right now, let.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: Him know you should live live tweet it. Let's hear it.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Well, we're gonna so what we're gonna do is we're
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: gonna give our EMO hot takes. So we each have
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: three EMO hot takes, and uh, we're gonna basically like
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: the judging of this is, uh so one person's gonna
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: give their hot take and then all of us are
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: gonna judge based on not only how hot it is,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: So there might be like an emo hot take, like
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: for example, we could be like, uh, Jimmy world is good,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: that's not very hot, Like we might agree with it,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: but it's not hot, Like that's not a hot take.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: So we're gonna have to we're gonna judge each other
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: with each of our takes by how hot it is. Uh,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: and then we're gonna judge each other based on whether
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: we agree with it or not. So we do have
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: to go with an agreement or not agreement. So those
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: are our criteria for our hot takes, so not only
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: how hot it is. So there might be a take
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: where you're like, that's not super hot, but but I
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: do agree with it, or you know, on the inverse,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: maybe you're like, that's a super hot take, but I
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: don't agree with it. So anyway, all that's to say,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: that's how we're gonna judge it. So I think that's it, right,
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: like something else Colin that you can think of. All right,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: so we're just gonna go basically round robin or however
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: this goes, we're just gonna snake it or whatever. And
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: we'd love to hear what you all think is the
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: hottest take and if you got your own emo hot takes?
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: So who wants to go first?
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: I'll go first. I'll break the ice here my hot take.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: My first one is emo music is not a genre,
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: it's a fan base. Mason, I'm already a finger. And
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you why the fans decide what's considered emo music.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: If you think about it, like Rights of Spring, American football,
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: My Chemical Romance, and Little Peep have absolutely nothing in
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: common sonically, but every single one of those, every single
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: fan of those bands would at least in some way
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: consider themselves more than likely emo. So I mean, you
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: just can't really make the argument that that's not the case, right.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: I would say also that most of the time, at
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: least in two thousands, emo and beyond esthetics matter as much,
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: if not more than the music oftentimes. And then I
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: also like can't think of like any other genre that
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: has maintained its like base moniker of like emo music,
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: for instance, even though it's expanded over like tons and
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: tons and tons and tons of genres, usually as soon
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: as that like sonic quality widens, like the actual bass
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: moniker just kind of like disappears over after a while.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: But that has not happened with Emo. And then my
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: last like main argument behind this is like think about,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: like why people always argue whether such and such band
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: as emo or not. It's it's it's an identity. They
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: identify the emotional quality of the music and potentially the aesthetics,
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: and they've attached to the they've attached themselves to the
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: to the moniker of emo more than they have necessarily
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: like the genre per se. So that's why I say
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: that emo music is not a genre, it's a fan base.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: It's about identity.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: I'm going to jump in here right away and say
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: the reason why I flipped you off was this was
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: gonna be my first ah.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: That's why I wanted to go. I was pretty sure
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: this is gonna be along your lines of thinking.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: I not only do I think it's a pretty hot take.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's the hottest. We'll find out
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: whether or not it's your hottest hot take, but but
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: I do think it's pretty hot. But I just absolutely
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: agree with you on this. Literally, what I have in
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: my notes app is Emo as a genre doesn't actually exist.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: It's only a scene. And I don't know if I've
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: said this on the podcast before, But I definitely have
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: had this thought where there almost is maybe no other
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: scene of music, if you will, that has had so
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: much variety in its genres. For example, like you think
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: of like the quote unquote like originators of emo music,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: like emotional hardcore in the Washington DC area in the
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, Like if you listen to it, I mean,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: it does sound like hardcore punk. Maybe there's some like
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: maybe les like beat down kind of beats, but but
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: it there is this like sort of hardcore element to it.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: And to think that that has it's like in the
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: same scene as like Colin mentioned, like Little Peep or
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Dashboard Confessional, like that is it clearly is not a genre.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: It's just clearly not a genre. It's it is a scene,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: and there are lots of different genres that encompass that scene.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: I think you're absolutely right, Colin.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: Hard disagreement A right, let's hear it. So there are
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: many things you guys said that I do agree with,
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: such as the I mean, Mason, your point was fantastic,
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: like like looking at earlier like emotional hardcore bands, you know,
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: like some calling it one of you mentioned rights a
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: spring versus like dashboard like obviously sound nothing alike. This
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: is why we have the term waves. Emo has the
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: most distinct waves of any genre of music ever in
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: my personal opinion. So I think EMO is in fact
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: a genre that came from emotional hardcore in the first wave,
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: and now we're literally to the fifth wave. And you
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: can like debate back and forth what's fourth or fifth wave?
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: And that's a conversation I have with my friends all
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: the time. But like it's Hot Mulligan, fourth wave or
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: fifth wave. I say fourth wave because I think we
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: have to go by uh not just sound, but by years.
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: But to say that it's not a genre, I think
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: is a bad take.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, Can I push back on that? Sure, I'm going to.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to. Ei'm going to. Okay, I get
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: the point of the waves, and like I under I
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: hear what you're saying there. But like Dashboard came up
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: at the same time that, let's say under Oath came up.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: And again, if you if you don't know anything about
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: what Dashboard looks like, if you don't know anything about
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: what under Oath looks like, if you know nothing about
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: their fan bases, you know, like nothing about any of it,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: you just hear Dashboard for the first time and then
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: you hear under Oath for the first time in two
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: thousand and four, You're going to be like, these are
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: entirely separate bands that have nothing to do with one another.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: There they are not the same genre. And if you
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: were to say, like, is this the same genre, you
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: would say absolutely not. But because the fact that they
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: both were on Warp Tour, we say they're emo.
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: This is why we have something called subgenre.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: Pause, think about think about the bands themselves. Do any
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: of these bands, uh, would they have considered themselves emo themselves?
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Or is it says no, you're an ema band.
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: I think that's true for some bands. I do think
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: even under Oath. I think I've even seen them on
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: a podcast somewhat recently saying that they would fit into
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: like a subgenre of emo. And one of my I
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: don't want to give too much of my takes away,
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: but like under Oath was in like the scream of subgenre,
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: like Dashboard is in like this acoustic emo subgenre. But
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: it's just like pop music. Do do Sam Smith and
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: Chappa Roanes down the same? No, but they're in the subgenre.
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: They're like they're in the umbrella of pop, but they sound.
• 17:58
  Speaker 5: Pop music is literally what is popular.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: That's that's what pop music is.
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: Okay, that country music. We can do this with country music,
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: Like those are like two like crazy diff like wat's
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: a hatchie is in the same genre as like fucking
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: Luke Bryant, like it's a it's a wide span where
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: you're like, I don't see.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, But that's also defined by its sound first and foremost,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: as long as you've got a little bit of applying
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: to your voice. So you've got a violin or a banjo,
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: or a steel guitar or a slide guitar, now all
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: of a sudden, you're considered country.
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: And emo is defined more by its content and its lyrics,
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: which is still something to be defined.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: I think we'll get to that later on.
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: Oh is that how we got the term of emo?
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: Is that where that comes from? Its crazy.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Point taken.
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: I want to also push back on aesthetics because like, yes,
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: there are aesthetics. I was explaining this to my kid
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: the other day, but like the email aesthetics in the
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: two thousands, we're not you're thinking of scene whenever you
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: think of that, Like because I like I mean I
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: wore like American eagle flared jeans and like a purple
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: hoodie and I was still a very like comfortable Christian.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: You have very different.
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: Okay, so you also have a meme. You also have
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: the meme, but like where it's like Toby Maguire and
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: Spider Man, it's like if the basefire looks like this,
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: they're gonna die in the pit because like, these guys
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: looks like normis. Half the fan base looks like normis.
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: Like correct, yes, Lindsay is right about this. That was
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: one of the most beautiful things about the scene is
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: like you you could dress like you only listened to
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: whatever's on the radio, and then you like, are you know,
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: talking about uh not just Jimmy e World because they
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: obviously had like hell a crossover within like the popular culture.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: I mean they were on EMTV, but you could be
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: talking about like cap'n Jazz or something, but you look
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: like just a random dad off the street.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: Again. That's where like it just it feels like it's
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: they're almost it's so different, where like you could have
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: a fan of like Cap and Jazz or American football
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: and that person just literally not only based on what
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: they look like. But what the music they're interested in
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: is so separate from follow Up Boy or Paramour.
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: I don't know, have you heard old fall Out Boy
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: have a lot of overlap to like Jamie world esque stuff.
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: It's just more pop punk.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Well, I think we're beating this dead horse. Should we
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: move on to the next one?
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Wait, I think it's pretty hot. I agree with it.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: I think it's so.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: I agree it to hot Take and I think it's hot.
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right, Land, all.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Right, that's that. I love the fact that you started
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: off with that one though, because it actually really makes
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: us like, all right, what actually is emo?
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: Well, that's always been the question in emo world, So.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: I agree with that least.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: All right, who wants to go next?
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Alright, Meg, I don't mind.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, all right, Meg, okay. Speaking of subgenres, I
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: and I mentioned this term earlier. I think Mason might
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: have as well. One of the subgenres of emo is screamo.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: But I think that we need to fully embrace the
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: term SCRAMs and stop being embarrassed about it, because it
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: is the best way to differentiate fully between like mall
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: screamo or pop screamo, and the way heavier basically screaming
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: only scream o. Right, And here's my reason. Older bands
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: that were fall fell under like the scream o genre,
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: like Jerome's Dream and Orchid and Page ninety nine, or
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: even newer bands like Loma Prieta who have seen multiple
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: times Frail Body and February, who's like just so great.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: There's like these like girls and they're screaming so intensely
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: and like barely ever singing. They're so intense they sound
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: nothing like Silverstein or they're only facing safety Era under
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: Oath or like sayosin right. They sound those bands sound
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: wildly different, but the term is used for all of them,
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: and that ends up being wildly confusing and ultimately unhelpful.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: And when I first heard the term SCRAMs, I have
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: to admit that I think I literally laughed out loud.
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: I was like, what what is that like? I actually
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: didn't learn about it until maybe five years ago. But
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: in learning about why that term even came up in
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: the scene in the first place, I think it was
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: a good It was a good reason. It was exactly
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: what I'm talking about to make that distinction, And then
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: that made me realize it's really unhelpful because when I
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: was in school, if someone said that they liked scream, Oh,
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: they weren't talking about Orchid or Saysha or I don't
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: even know if I'm pronouncing that band name correctly, But
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: they weren't talking about those bands, right. That is just
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: like emotional music, and it's like all this intense screaming
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: over it. They could have been talking about under Oath
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: or Emery if they were me, or even freaking Hawthorne Heights. Right,
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: It's just like emotional music with some screaming in it, right,
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: Emo music with screaming. And so I've seen some people
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: argue that we should just call that genre and those
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: bands pop screamo or mall screamo, and I get that,
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: but no one who listens to those bands, or especially
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: is in those bands, wants to put the term mall
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: in front of their name, like you know, in front
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: of their genre, right, because it gives this connotation that
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: it's not to be taken as seriously, like it's not
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: as authentic or as original, and just something that's appealing
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: to the masses essentially. And while that might actually be
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: the case for like a small percentage of bands from
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: the era, like maybe even Hawthorne Heights. I don't know.
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: There are plenty of like pop Screamer or mall scream
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: Oh bands that are amazing. We all know this, right.
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: We love them like I love Emory, like I love
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: that sound like even not not as much, but like
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: Amber Lynn has a little bit of that in it.
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: So many of those bands are creative and unique. And
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: so I argue that we keep the term SCRAMs, get
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: over ourselves about how goofy it sounds, and keep those
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: subgenres more differentiated so we're not constantly confused about what
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: we're talking about.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't, I don't. I don't think that's hot
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: at all. I would okay, I would agree cool.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think it's an overly hot take. And
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: I act like I do agree with you in the
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: sense that yes, they are like completely different genres like
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: scream oh or not completely different, but they are different
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: genres between scream and SCRAMs. Again, my only problem with
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: and you brought this up is like it's such a
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: goofy word. I know, like it's just it's not gonna
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: I just don't see it cutting out like scram sounds
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: like a Looney Tunes cartoon and like to me, like,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: if somebody were to say, like, do you listen to SCRAMs?
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: I would think that like it would be like a
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: subgenre of like ska, Like it doesn't sound anything like
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: the actual sound that it is. So it's just it's
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: just it's like a bad name for it. So I
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: wonder if it's like, Yes, I do think there should
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: be a distinction between that type of scream o mall
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: scream o or whatever band versus like an orchid. I
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: just don't think SCRAMs is a great word for it.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: And it's just because Scram's is a silly word.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: I mean, I do agree with that. You like it,
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: Linday a word.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: I like it too. I appreciate the word. I don't
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: think it matches, but I think that it also I
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: also think that it it adds a little bit of
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: lightheartedness to something that doesn't need to be very heavy,
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: you know exactly. Yeah, genre or a subject.
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's just a term. And I mean they're
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: the ones that chose it, whoever that was that decided
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: to that, Like they could have said something less weird,
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: but the.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Big, big marketing issue on their part exactly.
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: So you guys say not a hot take, but at
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: least Colin A. Mason. You two agree, lindsay, what about you?
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: I agree?
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty mild, but like the distinction that you're trying
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: to make, I think we all agree with.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: So I appreciate you guys saying you agree, because I
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: have heard lots of people not agree even a little bit.
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: They're like, no, like mall screamo co opted the term
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: scream o, and like we need to just call them
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: out for what they are and it's just appealing to
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: the masses. And I'm like, calm down, like they're good,
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: it's fine.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: The gatekeepers of emo. I'll tell you what.
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: Yes, I do think that part of it too is
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: that like scram's is not enough of a genre that
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: I've delved into, Like I've been pretty surface deep on it,
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: so like I'm not the types to get pretentious about it.
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: I just think it's a real fun word. So I'm
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: gonna say it.
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: All right, I'll go next. So lindsay, you'll you'll be
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: You'll be the last, uh, but the last, She'll be first.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: So my hot take, and I think this is a
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: pretty hot take to be honest, all right, So we
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: have all seen the copy pasta that is emo originated
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: in the nineteen agers emotional hardcore in Washington. My hot
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: take is EMO didn't originate with the nineteen eighties emotional
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: hardcore scene in Washington, DC. That's my hot take.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: What pretty hot.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: It's pretty hot, pretty hot.
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: Our friendship is on the line right now.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: Pretty hot. Okay, here are a few of my reasons. Okay,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: First off, if you were to ask anyone who knows
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: anything about emo, if they if you were like, what
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: does EMO sound like? They're not going to describe anything
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: even remotely to the emotional hardcore scene of like Rights
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: of Spring, not even gonna sound anywhere close to that.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: So the fact that almost none of those bands from
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: that like nineteen eighty scene really sound anything to what
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: we think of as like classic emo music, I think
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: is a huge part of that. My second reason is
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: these bands rejected that label. They thought it was a
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: derogatory label. They absolutely hated that label. And whether or
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: not they should have been labeled that, these nineteen eighties
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: bands hated that label, especially even like early nineties bands.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: I think even you could even go into like the
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: second Wave, a lot of like you know, I think
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: even there's like an interview of Sunny Day real Estate
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: rejecting that label. A lot of these early bands really
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: rejected that emo label. And and so when we think
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: of a lot of like the emo bands that we
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: think of as the sort of popular classic emo bands,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: those were the bands that were maybe the first emo
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: bands that started to actually embrace that label to some
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: degree or at least did not think of it as derogatory.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: So that's my second reason. My third reason is, to me,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: like the comparison of like emotional hardcore scene, the emotional
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: hardcore scene of the Washington DC area in the nineteen eighties,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: like originating or like being the like impetus for emo music,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: it almost feels as like like the comparison or the
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: analogy I think of is it's like Rugby creating football. Like, yes,
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: there is the like influence, but it doesn't mean that
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: the influence is the same thing as the thing that
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: it influenced. So, yes, Rugby influenced the creation of American
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: grid iroon football, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Rugby
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: is grid iron American football, right, So I would say,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: like there is that thing to keep in mind when
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: we think of like emotional hardcore music from the nineteen
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: eighties in Washington, DC. So anyway, I think the reason
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: why it's become kind of this like copy pasta is
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: I think to some degree weld kind of know how,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: like silly and ridiculous that is. So that's my hot take,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: and those are my reasons.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: That is a hot take. And once again I disagree.
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: I do really though, Mason, I do appreciate you explaining
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: why in the sense that, like, just because something influenced
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: something else doesn't mean that that was the necessary, necessarily
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: the originator of that particular thing. Like I think that
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: does make sense. But like even though they did use
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: it in a derogatory way, like Ia Mackay of Embrace,
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: which I mean obviously minor threat, but like he did
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: actually accept that eventually, like he was like, yeah, so what,
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: like we're top writing emotional lyrics? What's so wrong with that?
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: Like, and I think that his influence amongst others, like
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: they did. I know that they did reject it at first,
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: but eventually it became this thing of like, this is
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: what we feel like writing about within the genre on
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: this sound that we want it to sound like. And
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: so I think that giving homage where it's due, like
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: I do think to say, like, that's where it started. Again,
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: that's why we have waves. Do you look? I mean,
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: same thing with Scott. Third wave Scott sounds nothing like
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: first wave Scott, which is from like Jamaica, and it's
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: like Calypso sound, you know, like they don't like Fiber
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: and Frenzy and like real Big Fish don't sound like
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: Desmond Decker. They don't sound the same at all. And
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: so I think again, that's why we have waves. I
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: get what you're saying, I think.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: To back up Mason's claim, and I am not agreeing
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: with Mason, but there is a point to be made
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: here that if it is really truly only about lyrical content,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: as you claimed earlier, Meg, then why doesn't Joy Division,
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Leve Will Tear Us Apart, or Cyndi Lauper or the
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: Cures Pictures of You Like, why don't those songs get
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: credited as being some of the first emo songs.
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I mean Joy Division and The
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: Cure were not necessarily popular at the exact same time
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: as emotional hardcore in the DC.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Right, But what I'm saying is that that there could
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: be predating pretty pretty easily.
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: I mean to be to be frank, I think Joy
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: Division did influence right to Spring and did influence Embrace.
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: But the fact that the term EMO came from the
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: term emotional hardcore would have the starting point in that timeframe,
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: not back, not not pre data.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: I thought, so it doesn't matter. I thought genre does
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: not necessarily matter.
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: No, I'm saying sonically it matters a little bit, but
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: not as much as lyrical content. But I'm saying the
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: term EMO originated when they talked about emotional hardcore, did
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: not originate before that. So that's why Joy Division the
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: Cure would not fall into that.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: I know why they fall into that, but it just
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: feels like.
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: I'm talking about eras as well. It's not just about
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: lyrical content.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: And also about Taylor Swift. No, we're not talking Taylor
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: Swift on this podcast.
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: I didn't say that so nice. I mean, but to
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: be fair, like goth music or like post punk like
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: that had its own like dark like Laura, you know
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: about it, absolutely, that was its own thing. Yeah, But
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: all right, lindsay, what do you think?
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: Hmmm, I don't know. Oh no, I think both teams
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: have a good point.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: You to.
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: She's like, I don't want a part of this.
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: No, I'm trying to think because, like I don't know,
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: I've read a lot about this heart of EMA music,
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: but my head right now.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Is full of rocks, plays for rocks to be.
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: I know it's crazy. I just keep hunting rocks in there.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm trying to say that you're stone right now.
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: No, that was good.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: That was a joke. Maybe it wasn't that.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: Good of a joke.
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: You're just you're just firing in all souldiers right now.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: Dad puns over and over, yad puns.
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: I don't know that it really has an opinion either way.
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: I think that, Yeah, here's what I will say. I
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: like how thoroughly thought about this, Mason, and I appreciate
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: a lot of the points you made. I just do
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: think that in order to give credit where it to do,
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: we're something originated where term originated, that would be that
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: would necessitate it being the first wave of that thing,
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: of that genre.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so what I'm maybe arguing for is what is
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: maybe typically categorized as the second wave should actually be
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: the first wave.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: Funny that you say that maybe ten plus ten fifteen
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: years ago. I thought second waving Mole was the first
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: wave I did. It wasn't until I got into it.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: So I see where you're coming from. I just I
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: just stand where I stand.
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, all right, you know what I'm going to go
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: with Meg. I'm going to go with Meg on this one.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to say that taking as hot as
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: can be and I and I don't agree with it.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: I was just trying to help you out, Mason, because
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: this has clearly become a boys versus a girls situation.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll see. We'll see about the next one. Lindsay
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: might Lindsay might not be on my team for the
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: next one.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Hope she derailed it, all right, Lindsay hot take or not?
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: And then do you agree or not?
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: Mmm? Yes, it's a hot take. No, I already established
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: I don't agree with you. I agree with Meke and Colin. Yeah,
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: at this point, I'm sorry, not really any like, not
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: any facts to back it up, just like red rovering
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: over there.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: And Meg, hot take or not? And then uh, do
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: you agree or not?
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's already said. That is a very hot take,
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: and I definitely disagree while I respect your process.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: That's that's the That's the most important thing for me.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: You you hear, you understand the logic, you understand in
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: the logic I think. I yeah, yeah, all right, Lindsay.
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: Okay, okay, this might not be a hot take here,
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: but I know it's a hot take within the Emo
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: world because I'm on the Emo subreddit anyway. I think
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: that we should continue to cancel bands that like have
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: like if their Wikipedia page has a section called accusations,
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: you can just be done with them. You can just
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: be done with them. It's fine, it's fine. I think
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: that they are too new bands that he kind of
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: like just let's get like skiep By and it's like, oh,
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: well there are stuff is good, like go for a
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: thread on this one brand new. I have not had
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: any issue washing my hands a brand new. I really
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: have not. And I just say that there are a
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: lot of bands that we like to keep around. It's like,
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: you don't need to do that, you don't need to
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: give them revenue.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: I don't think we really necessarily need to wait for
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: confirmation all the time. Yeah, that's what I always keep hearing.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: We just got to keep waiting for a confirmation that
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: this actually did happen. M not always. Yeah, sometimes there's
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: just good already.
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And like there are there are a lot of
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: people who will say, like who will bring up a
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: lot of different things about the Brand New specifically, but
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: like I was getting nervous saying it because there are
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: a lot of people. I'm worried that I'm just gonna
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: get down voted by like saying that alone. But at
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: the same time, like if you read about brand New
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: at the time, everything's like we hated Jesse Lacy. He
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: was such a dick and like so it's really not
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: hard to like go from one side to the next
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: and like okay, wait, okay, we can just be done
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: with this guy. So yeah, that that is my that's
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: my hot take.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: That is absolutely like zero kelvin whatever they call it?
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: Absolutely what is it called absolute zero? Right? My fifth
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: grade science? That is as cool.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: That's all I know.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: But I do agree.
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe it's not that hot take. I'm sorry. I'm
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: sorry if I'm not problematic enough for this problematic podcast.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: None was mine was the cantible takes Lindsey. This is
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: the whole point.
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: I might be the odd one out here. Yeah, So however,
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: I look, okay, I'll give a caveat, Like my friend
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: and I were literally just texting today because someone in
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: the hardcore scene got accused of some stuff, someone from
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: the Hardlower podcast who's in bands that I don't care about,
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: but the podcast I think is good. And so it's
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: this immediate reaction of like, I think that when someone
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: comes with an accusation about something that's happened to them,
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: we absolutely need to take their words at face value,
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: listen to them, believe them, and you know, like hold
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: that right now. Obviously there's always two sides to every story,
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: but like to a memediately have the reaction like, well,
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: we don't really know, is like come on, you don't
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: need to say that, like have empathy, like have understanding,
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: Like that's not what is necessary right now. Right My
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: only pushback to that, And to be honest, you know,
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: I think that brand New and Jesse Lacy is a
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: good example, especially if you're someone who maybe was in
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: that scene or maybe was like treated weird by dudes
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: in emo bands or hardware bands or whatever. You're like
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: I can't listen to anymore. No one should tell you
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: get over it. No one should tell you like it's
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: not that big of a deal. It doesn't matter, Like
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: everyone has the right to be like I just can't
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: do this anymore, you know, Like it could be as
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: small as something like, oh, I had an abusive boyfriend
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: who showed me this band, so I can't listen to
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: this band or the vocalist of this band is something
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: that is so egregious that for me and my personal convictions,
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: I can't do it anymore. I don't think that that's
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: lame or stupid or unfair. I think that we all
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: should live by our personal convictions, you know, and if
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: that's the case for those people, that's good. My only
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: pushback on that is the concept, especially as a Christian,
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: like as the concept of redemption. There are people in
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: bands currently who are still people listen to and are
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: lauded and are like coming out as like having been
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: very recently shitty people, and those have been pushed aside.
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: But then maybe someone, I mean, Jesse Lacy's the easy example.
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: I'm sure there's others where it's like, Okay, these things
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: happened a long time ago. He admittedly was a piece
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: of shit, and absolutely everything that he did was not okay.
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: You know, like fame and power gets to your head,
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: and then you think that you own the world and
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: that you're owed everything and every bit of attention, and
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: that's just disgusting and it's not okay. But like it's
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: just hard for me when we have these other bands
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: like Rid Hot Chili Peppers, or even honestly, as much
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: as I fucking love him, David Bowie, like you know,
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: he dated like a fourteen year old and we're like,
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: yeay David Bowie, I am also a yay David Bowie person,
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: And so I think that it's good. I think we're
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: going in a better direction in these music scenes and
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: in these genres to call out shitty behavior when it's
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: exposed to us. I think that is a good and
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: a positive thing. But I also think there is a
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: balance between like this person's life deserves to be ruined
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: versus I just can't really listen to them anymore. So
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: that's where I come from. I, you know, had guys
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: talking to me in like the emo and hardcore scene
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: back in the day, and there's a little bit of
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: it that's like I like this attention, but also you're
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: being weird and creepy, you know, and so there's like
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: that element there too. But I am very not pro
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: canceling someone's life and just like shitting on them for
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: the rest of their life. But I'm also very like
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: okay with people saying I just can't listen to them anymore.
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: So that's my that's my like slight pushbacks.
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: That is a fair news thing that brings me time.
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: Next point, we should cancel a red hot Chili peppers.
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: Lindsay, I love you.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: So okay. So that's exactly where like my mind went
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: when you brought this up, Lindsay, is there is something
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: that's interesting? First off, I'll say, I don't think it's
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: that how to to take, but that's just like coming
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: from like my own perspective, Like I could see that
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: being like a super hot take like you mentioned, like
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: the subredit for EMO is crazy about this, so so
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: maybe it is a hot take, but in my perspective
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: it it's not a hot take. And I do agree
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: with you where my mind is going. This really isn't
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: like actually about the take, but there is there is
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: like this weird double standard within music where like you know,
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: we we do see like whether it's I mean, it's
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: it's clearly debated about, like someone like Jesse Lacy right
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: where it's debated about whether or not we should listen
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: to brand new or not. And yet like that debate
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: doesn't happen at a super popular level like Red Hot
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: Chili Peppers. That to me is like really interesting is
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: is the fact that like there is a scene of
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: music that has that debate whether or not we should
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: listen to an artist because of previous shitty behavior, but
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: we don't think about that at super popular level artists,
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: Like we're gonna have to do this with like maybe
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: this is happening with like Kanye West. But like even
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: so like that, I don't see that discourse play out
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: in the same way that like that discord discourse put
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: out with like Jesse Lacey.
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: So yeah, Kanye's old stuff still gets played like in
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: supermarkets or like you know, like at clubs or whatever,
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: you know. And so I think for me, the difference
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: of me being able to be like can I listen
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: to this? Like I'm not going to force myself to
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: listen to something that like in my heart it feels icky,
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: like why would I do that? There's plenty of good
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: music out there. Don't do that, right, But if it's
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: if it's a band, that was really really important to me,
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: and then it comes out that this person was like
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: not great at a certain time. There, I have a checklist.
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: Did they acknowledge it, did they take accountability? Did they
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: actively do it? Especially if they started doing that before
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: it became public for me personally. Again, this is the
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: hot take part that Jesse Lacy checks out with that.
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: So I'm not like an avid listener to brand new,
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: Like I don't listen to them on like the regular,
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: but like if they come on on like my Spotify
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: or something, I'm not gonna be like, I got a
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: I gotta skip it. I understand that I might be
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: like not, I might be one of the exceptions on
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: a lot of people can't do that. I don't think
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: there's anything wrong with that, But because of what of
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: the timelines of things that happened, I actually can forgive
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: that and move towards redemption. If someone is downplaying it,
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: like if it was really recent, then I have a
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: way harder time with that.
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: Now, do we think that, like you were saying that
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: it happens like more so with emo music than it
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: is it? Do you think because of more like increased
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: access to fans, Because like I don't know if any
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: other genre had that, but Emo music did, where like
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: you might yeah, yeah.
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: You might be onto something there actually.
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And like I mean, whenever you think about like
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: the Rolling Stones, the Rolling Stones were doing like really
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: shitty things whenever they were like fans who were able
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: to get back there. So like I wonder if that's
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: just sort of like where it is where and like yeah,
• 44:57
  Speaker 4: and more stories being told about that too, and like
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: more seats to be had because of a nine conversations.
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: M h.
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: I think you're right.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: I think it's a great take. I don't know if
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: it's the hottest, but it is a it's a good
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: take and very necessary.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: It was hotter than than maybe it initially sounds like, because.
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: You know, maybe it's spent a lot.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: We spent a lot of time talking about it, and
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: and there was good arguments on both sides. I think.
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: For I think it was a good thing to bring up.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, I appreciate it, all right, culin back to
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: you your second hot Emo take?
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: All right, I don't know which one I want to
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: do next, but i'll say this, uh two thousand's Emo,
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: I'll say as a umbrella or as an umbrella.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: Third wave is what we're saying.
• 45:52
  Speaker 5: I was about to say that I believe that it
• 45:55
  Speaker 5: was the last time the US had a generationally popular
• 45:59
  Speaker 5: semi counter cultural movement capture every part of youth culture, fashion, art, language, identity,
• 46:07
  Speaker 5: emotional norms unlike any unlike any other, like guitar based
• 46:12
  Speaker 5: music really really did, like recently.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: At least, I should say. I would say that the
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: benefits of of the benefit is that like it's almost
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: like kind of like the last moment of shared culture
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: that we've had, right, so, like MTV and MySpace and
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: radio play and like youth oriented tours like like Warped
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: Tour and stuff like that, they kind of lend to
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: like this shared experience that feels like a bygone era.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: And I like, as a teacher nowadays, like I think
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: about it, I'm like, you just don't understand what it's
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: like to like something that other people also like. I mean,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: everything is so siloed and like the communities are so
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: small now that it feels so different. You got people
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: like Gerard Way and Haley Williams who are like, you know,
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: household names that parents even knew who they were. And
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: I would say, like pretty much all guitar bassed music
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: sense has felt somewhat archival, where they're just kind of rehashing,
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: you know, a bygone era themselves. So, yeah, that's my
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: hot take. I'm hoping that's a hot take. I think
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: that it is because I think you can make a
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: lot of arguments for a lot of different more modern
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: genres and stuff like that. But I really do think
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: that this is like the last generationally popular semi youth movement.
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I think it's a hot take,
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: But Colin, I could not agree with you more. I
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: have talked about this with friends so many times. I
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: think you worded that so well. I also am a teacher.
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: I have had that exact same thought. I absolutely agree, sick.
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: I would put it on like you know, if like
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: you're if you're hot, the hot spectrum, a hot cold
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: spectrum is like there's like the low part of your
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: knob on your stove and then you've got the high.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: I'd put it out like at a six, like it's
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: like that sort of like medium high kind of vibe
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: like that. That's like that's like you're pan frying, like
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: high hot take. So that's where it's.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: Funny because if I try to explain this to my students,
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: like they they they quite frankly, just don't get it right.
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: But oh, I tried the same thing.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: You're like, they think that they they think that they
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: know what and I'm not trying to be old man
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: yelling at the clouds, right, but like they think that
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: they know what like a community is what and what
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: what a movement is. But I don't think that they do.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: Maybe the one thing, go ahead, lindsay no, you.
• 49:02
  Speaker 4: Can go ahead and all trail on after if you want.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, you add a lot of elements to that take.
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: The one thing that actually caught my ear that I
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: really agree with you, and I think might even be
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: the hotter take is at least for the foreseeable future,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: I think emo music, and I think maybe just generally
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: two thousands rock music, but specifically emo music might be
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: at least in the foreseeable future, the last time we
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: have popular guitar driven music.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's kind of part of that, that whole element.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's part of it. But like that
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: to me is like that that is like where I'm like, whoo,
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: Like that could be a lot, It could be a
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: really long time until we get like another Foo Fighters
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: or Jimmy World or whatever, you know, super popular, you know,
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: the Killers, Like, it's gonna take a long time before
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: we get really popular guitar driven rack.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: If we ever. Do you know, there's there's no guarantee
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: that we will, you know, right, don't. I don't hear
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: a whole lot of people listening to Tin pan Alley
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: music anymore, or or or even jazz or blues.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: For that matter. Right, So anyway, I I think I
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: agree with it, but but I don't like think it's
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: the hottest take, but like it's you know, it's like hot.
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: Okay, yeah with you you're saying, like the last time
• 50:22
  Speaker 4: we had like a big community like driven movement over
• 50:26
  Speaker 4: a pop culture thing, is that like basically just what
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: you're specifically.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: A music thing. Yeah, I would say, I'm going.
• 50:35
  Speaker 4: To make a few people mad Taylor Swift in the
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: Eras tour. I think that. I know, I know you're
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: going to do that. I know you're going to do that,
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: but I mean, you.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: We already established in this podcast, but.
• 50:49
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I'm gonna just keep getting you can see
• 50:51
  Speaker 4: that's like one artist though.
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: I agree, it's like a.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: It's like a.
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: Phenomenon, right, but it's like one artist, right, it.
• 51:02
  Speaker 4: Is one artist, but it also made way for other
• 51:05
  Speaker 4: artists too, Like I don't know if I mean, like,
• 51:09
  Speaker 4: I don't know if Sabrina Carpenter would be having the
• 51:11
  Speaker 4: moment that she's having had it not been for Taylor Swift.
• 51:13
  Speaker 4: I don't know if I mean, like, and I don't
• 51:16
  Speaker 4: mean to pit two queens against each other because like
• 51:18
  Speaker 4: there is drama there, but like Olivia Rodrigo that was
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: she was driven very much by Taylor Swift as well.
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: Like I think that, so I'm gonna go feminist on this. Actually,
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: I think that like whenever movements are like particularly girl driven,
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: they tend to get ignored, but they can be pretty effective.
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: Like I mean, you had the Barbie movement, like all
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: that's like back whenever the world was a little okay
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: for a hot second, but like I just think that
• 51:50
  Speaker 4: that like the I mean, I'm not gonna lie. I
• 51:53
  Speaker 4: went to the Aras tour and that was like a
• 51:54
  Speaker 4: very exciting moment, Like you had the movie in the
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: theaters where like people of all ages were going up
• 52:01
  Speaker 4: and they were dancing and like they were like it
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: was a huge phenomenon. So I don't know. I don't
• 52:07
  Speaker 4: know if it's necessarily the last thing, Like I think
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: that there are more recent ones, but I do think
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: that it's also very interesting to look at, Like how
• 52:17
  Speaker 4: like the younger generation, from what I'm gathering from my
• 52:20
  Speaker 4: eleven year old, is starting to really latch on to
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: the emo movement as well, which I think is really interesting.
• 52:26
  Speaker 4: Like my kid is getting really into like Paramour and
• 52:31
  Speaker 4: Jimmy World and my Chemical Romance and all of his
• 52:34
  Speaker 4: friends are too, so like, I do think that it
• 52:36
  Speaker 4: is a very lasting one, but I do think that
• 52:38
  Speaker 4: we also have pretty culturally significant things that have happened
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: in the time since your.
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: Kid my beginning of that, because you have a good
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: taste of music.
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: No, he doesn't. He liked the other day he told
• 52:52
  Speaker 4: me that I don't know emo music, and I'm like,
• 52:54
  Speaker 4: oh boy, oh no, you did not date Emo Cress.
• 52:57
  Speaker 4: I do not know about this.
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I agree with the like cultural phenomenon of
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: like the Taylor Swift stuff. I mean, I am not
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm just gonna play my cards on the table,
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: like I'm not a Team Swift fan. However, I kind
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: of respect and appreciate what she did. You know, like
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: you were talking about like how it was just really
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: communal and like bringing people together. But I think Colin
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: correct me if I'm wrong. You were talking about like
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: a genre more specifically, and like you were talking about
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: like guitar bass music more specifically and almost.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: Like almost like an outcast. Uh yeah, countercultural.
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: Alternative, countercultural, yeah, that's the right word. Like alternative yeah,
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: and alternatives kind of genre.
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: And so I was telling my friend this the other day,
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: Like I remember being in eighth grade and like a freshman,
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: feeling like I had to choose a genre to like
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: fit into, like with my listening and my dress. And
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: obviously now I'm like super old and like I don't care,
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: you know, I can. I can dress like Zoey Daschanel
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: one day and liked it like a dude another day,
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: Like it just doesn't matter to me anymore. But when
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: I was younger, I felt this pressure to choose a
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: music genre that was gonna be mine and then dressed
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: according to that music genre. And it wasn't until I
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: was like a junior, when like you know, under Oath
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: and Emery and that like they like blew up that
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: I looked around and I'm like, oh, like, I don't
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: have to worry like necessarily about not fitting in now,
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: because like this whole scene thing is like popular, Like
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: this is a thing like I'm not gonna look weird
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: if I'm dressing in this like way that is in
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: line with this certain genre of music. And so that's
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: my colin I agree with you is because I mean,
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: in my tiny Christian high school, there were people dressing
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: scene that.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: You know, however, many twenty years later, they're like, ah,
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: what an era, you know, like kind of back in
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: the day, like they liked it for a hot second.
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: They might like some of those bands still, but it
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: was like a cultural phenomenon, you know, it like permeated
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: through the youth. And so that's why I do agree
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: with you. Even though I agree with Lindsay in the
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: sense that like other genres and other artists can have
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: a very like communal cultural element to them, I think
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: as far as like a genre of music, I think
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: that you're right, like the two thousands, third wave emo
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: had this very very special moment in time.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, like I mean, we think of like
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: the sixties hippie movement or even like before that, like
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: the fifties kind of like rock and roll kind of movement,
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: and then the sixties hippie movement of music, and then
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: like the seventies like dance music, and obviously then you
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: get into like the rock music of like Queen and Zeppelin,
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: and then the eighties with the hair metal, like like
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: like every decade kind of has like their own distinct genre.
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: What feels I don't know, like maybe this is where
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: you're getting at, Culin, but it felt like like too
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: like the third wave, like two thousand emo, Like it
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: feels kind of like maybe the last version of that,
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: like we like won't get that kind of like very
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: distinct scene, specific type of music community that we had
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: for all of these decades prior for fifty years.
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Mason, I think that's a fantastic comparison.
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: Actually anyway, Well again, I don't think it's the hottest take,
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: but I do agree. I do agree. How about you others, y'alls?
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: Y'alls, I don't know if it's a hot take either,
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: but that's partially because I agree with it. I think
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: that if you were to ask, you know, like people
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: younger than me or my students, like we're talking about
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: and they might disagree, but then I'd be like, well,
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: what's the thing, Like, what's the thing that you're into?
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: Like maybe maybe rap? But then you have a lot
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: of different views on that. So you know, I think Mason,
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: you said on like a one to ten, maybe like
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: a six, I would say maybe like a four. But
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: I I it's it's a hard agree for me, And
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: I think it's a great point you brought up.
• 57:08
  Speaker 4: I I somewhat agree. I'm gonna rate it as as
• 57:14
  Speaker 4: if I'm gonna put a six on the Hot Take scale, right, yeah,
• 57:22
  Speaker 4: five point five to six.
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: Nice? Nice?
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: But do you agree or do you disagree?
• 57:28
  Speaker 4: Partially? Partially? Oh okay, because like I mean, I do
• 57:33
  Speaker 4: think that there are other ones that have been significant,
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: And I also, like, I don't know in my community,
• 57:38
  Speaker 4: like not like the emo kids were kind of the outliers,
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: Like they were kind of like even if they were
• 57:45
  Speaker 4: like even if the popular kids were listening to a
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: song or two, they were not gonna be at the
• 57:50
  Speaker 4: shows and they were not gonna be like blasting them
• 57:52
  Speaker 4: regularly on their playlist and things like that too. So
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: I don't know if it's like necessary. I think that
• 57:56
  Speaker 4: we kind of look at it with rose colored glasses
• 57:59
  Speaker 4: and we to like basically put our own obsession with
• 58:03
  Speaker 4: it onto the the like onto the entire group. But yeah,
• 58:11
  Speaker 4: I don't know that's Ryland.
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: I know we're going around the horn right now, and
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: I don't want to give away my other hot take.
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: But the only thing I'll push back on Lindsay on
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: this one is what other subgenres have an entire like, uh,
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: communal music night dedicated to that genre? Like you know
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: we have Emo nights, we don't we don't we have
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: some like indie dance nights, like we don't really have,
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: right sure? Yeah? Yeah, like Emo specifically, that's like the
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: thing that kind of kicked all those like genre side
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: dance nights off. It really was those Ema knights. Now
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: we have like Goth knights, and we have like, you know,
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: all these other things.
• 58:50
  Speaker 4: But yeah, but that kind of that isn't that kind
• 58:55
  Speaker 4: of based off of rave culture, which was like eight m.
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: Uh yes, yeah, yeah absolutely it is. So I mean,
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: give give credit where it's due, for sure, But I
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: just think as far as like alternative guitar bass music,
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: most all of the other like genre based nights are
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: more electronic, more pop, but then we have Emo Knights
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: where you're they're playing you know, Paramore.
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, great take, Great take, Meg. I don't know if
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: that was an allusion to your next take, but let's
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: hear it.
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: I was going to save that one for last because
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: the next one that I was going to do was
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: one that will make the two boys mad. Probably. Okay,
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: are you guys ready? Okay? I think that as an
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: emo band, Sunday Day real Estate specifically is pretty overrated.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: Just get you two are the new hosts of the podcast.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: I have so many, like specific reasons for this take.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: I'm so ready to debunk every one of your reasons.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: Okay, wonderful, Okay, here we go. They are incredible musicians,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: wonderful songwriters, but compared to some of the other second
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: wave emo stuff coming out around the same time, it
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: is just so uninteresting to me. I would rather listen
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: to Cap and Jazz or The Promise Ring or Jawbreaker
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: or a Braid or like so many other second wave
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: emo bands over and over again than Sunday Day real Estate.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: And I'm not even saying that because they're a slower band,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: like American football is slow as hell, But It is
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: just they're just so much more interesting to me. They
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: have just way more unique elements that have to me
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: set themselves apart, so that in my mind, like American
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: football is kind of the essence of Midwest EMO, where
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: Sunday real Estate is called the Midwest Emo band. But
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: they're not even from the Midwest.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: They're from Seattle, from a Midwest EMAO band.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: The internet people that I talk to, I don't know.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: I mean, Midwest EMO has like now become.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: Like people on the internet.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: Okay, you're right, Yeah, MIDMO has now like become like
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: a fake term essentially. But yeah, but to me, Sunnydy
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: real Estate sounds more like a slow rock band.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: Like not.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: This important quintessential sound of EMO. And I'm sure that
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: what I just said is like the most hot take
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: thus far. They're like, they're not like a quintessential sound
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: of EMO, and I get that, but that's my perspective.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: To me, there's nothing particularly interesting about them in my opinion,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: that sets them apart, especially when there's so many more
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: interesting bands and sounds coming out around the same time.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: Like so many of their songs sound the same, and
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: they're so freaking law like nearly every single song on Diary,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: which is like known as like their biggest emo album.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: They are between four and a half to six minutes long.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: They have one song that's like two and a half
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: minutes long, but all of the other songs are four
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: and a half to six plus minutes long. Like the
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 3: song about an Angel, amazing song, genius song, it is
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: six and a half minutes long. It does not need
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: to be that long. Like even when the distorted guitars
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: come in and like it picks up and he starts
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: kind of like yell singing, it still feels dragging to me.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: It's just yeah. I have seen them live twice in
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: the last year and a half, and both times I
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: have struggled to stay awake while standing up. And it's
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: not because they're a bad band. I know that they're good.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: I know objectively that they're good, but so many of
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: their songs sound the same. They're not a very dynamic
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: band in my opinion, and compared to the other second
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: wave emo coming out at that time, they are overrated.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: In my opinion. I think there's so many other bands
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: for so much more interesting, so much more formative. And
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: I know that Sunny Day is influential. I'm glad that
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: they exist, but apparently they're not for me. So that
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: is meta.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: This is like the whole thing that like everybody's like
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: my lobster's too buttery, Like.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 3: No, no, like give me like the promise ringing happened jazz,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: Like give me that.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: All these give as well? How about yeah?
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like that's what it's. It's like we're trying to
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: like we're trying to like pit like Mexican food against
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: like Indian food, Like why are we doing this right now?
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: Like what can we not just enjoy all of it
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: like we can my food, Indian food, Mexican food, Italian food,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: like it's all great, Mediterranean, it's all great. We can
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: all enjoy it. Love.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: You asked me to bring hot takes. This is my
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: hot take. I have tried so bad to get into
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: them because I know they're so important and they're so
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: formative and people adore them. I've seen them live twice
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: in the last year and a half. I have stood
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: there and been like, these are good songs that blend
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: in and bleed into one another, and I'm about to
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: fall asleep.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, it's a hot take. I'll give you that it is.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: It is it's burning the house down kind of take.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: I will not argue with you on that. It's it
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: is very hot. Can't agree with like disagree with you
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: more than I could, Like, I just I wish I
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: could disagree with you more than I'm already about to
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: like disagree with you. It's just it's just like it's
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: everything you said about why you aren't into them. I'm like, what,
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: Like it's just it's like it's like calling like Tom
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: Brady a like really bad passer. It's like have you
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: watched the thing happen? Like have you have you watched
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: Michael Jordan dunk and score of basketball?
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 4: Like?
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: What are we talking about?
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: I listened to them so much trying to be like,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 3: what does everyone love about this band? Like I just can't.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: I just can't. And that's fair. Like there are bands
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: I think we all can agree on this. There are
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: bands on paper we should like, and uh it would
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: make sense for us to like and for whatever reason,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: we just can't personally get into them. And that is okay.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: That doesn't mean we have to discredit them entirely.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: Go my dude, did you not hear my very first
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: thing I said? Was, they are incredibly musicians and amazing songwriters.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: But your take is that they're overrated.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which is which is hilarious because the only the
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: only place you could call them overrated is in a
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: group of other EMO fans because they are so far
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: from a household name, like they are so underrated in
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: like the grand scheme of music, okay or something.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: When I asked Mason, give me an example of a
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 3: hot take, he said something like Jimmy eWorld is overrated.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 3: And he's like, well, I don't agree with that, but
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 3: like that's an example. It's like, okay, cool. I was like,
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: I don't really know if I think there's any band
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 3: that are overrated. I got my hot take number one
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: and my hot take number three done, and I was like,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: I want, but I'm not sure if these two are
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: actually hot. I was like, I want a hot take
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: talking to a friend and he was like, say the
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 3: thing you always say to me. I was like, what's that.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: He's like, he's like that sunny day real estate is
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 3: not that good. I was like, I'm gonna piss them off.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 3: He's like, that's why you should do it.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: Very So here's what, okay, you brought up Diary, and
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: I will say I what I and this might not
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: be as hot to take as you mentioned, but I
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: do think maybe a hot take among emo fans would
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: be that Diary is the worst Sunny Day real Estate album,
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: and I would agree with that. I do think it's
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: their worst one. It's just not nearly as good as
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: some of their others. But like the fact that you
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: would say that they're overrated, that's like, let me clarify.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: Let me clarify. They are overrated in my opinion as
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 3: a second wave emo band. They are so lauded over
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 3: other bands that I think should be more popular, like
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: Joan of Arc and like Happen Jazz, like Even like
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: The Promised Ring, like even Braid and Mineral is like
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: has some sleepy songs, just like Sunda Day, but like
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 3: even they're a little more dynamic. But Sunny to Real
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 3: Estate is constantly talking about.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, said dynamic, like there is very few bands that
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: are more dynamic. If we're actually using like the correct
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: word of dynamic, Okay, then.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: Sunny clarify when when I say dynamic, I don't mean
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: necessarily in like because they start really slow and then
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: they build. And I do like that, but the tempo
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: stays almost the same, and amongst their songs, the tempos
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 3: stay the same, especially on Diary. I do appreciate when
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 3: he gets like heavy with his voice and then the
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 3: distorted guitars come in. I do appreciate that. But for me,
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: especially since the songs are so dang long, it feels dragging.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: It's like, why is this here's here's?
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: Uh? This might actually be a hot take, but I
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: don't think that Sunny Day real Estate actually falls super
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: neatly into EMO.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 3: I agree with that.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: I think that they actually have so much more in
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: common with like the grunge movement.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 3: They agree with the movement, completely agree.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: But the difference is that lyrically, well yeah, lyrically, grung
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: is very is very emo, and it's it's which is
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: also kind of strange. Why isn't grunge considered emo?
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 3: Why isn't grunge considered the beginning of EMO? I don't know,
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: because they didn't use that term.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: No, not not even like the beginning, but just like,
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: why isn't it considered emo? As well?
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: That you know, I'm with you, but but I give
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: you that I agree with you. I guys love them.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: I appreciate that.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: But to answer your question, and I think this is
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: exactly why I think Sunny Day real Estate fits squarely
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: into emo. Is uh is Jeremy inox Enix voice is
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: squarely an EMO sounding voice like that kind of like
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: raspy uh like typically a little bit more falsetto type
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: of uh, you know, tenory type of voice that is,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: you know, whining about whatever thing is going on in
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: his life. Like that is very quintessential EMO, whereas like grunge,
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: you get like pearl jam going around and then you
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: just like you don't hear that very often and in
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: uh in Emo, so I would say, like Germany, Ennx
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: voice is the very reason why you could really pretty
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: much squarely put uh sunny Day for the most part.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: But then you look at like a band like Filter
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: for example, Filter has the exact same qualities as Inex voice,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: and they're squarely in the grunge camp.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 3: Wait, who did you just say, Colin? Oh, I barely
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: know that band, but you're but like if I'm remembering
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 3: if I if there who.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: Big song?
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 4: Ye?
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: Yes, okay, that's yeah. I weirdly agree with both of
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: you on that one. Even though you guys like deeply,
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 3: deeply disagree with me about my take.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: We're finding middle ground. That's what we're doing here.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what friendship conversation.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: I love bipartisanship perfect anyway, Lindsay, do you have any
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: thoughts about Snadier real Estate and whether they're overrated, underrated,
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: or just rated.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 4: I think they're perfectly rated. They are a perfectly rated band.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 4: One second. Let me yeah, I think that it's very much. Uh,
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 4: this is a band that Meg doesn't like and not
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 4: a this is a band that's not good.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: Oh, you are completely correct.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 4: It's just a crazy take. It's like I don't like
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 4: the Beatles, so man, that band is overrated.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: I mean I also kind of think the Beatles are.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 4: I can't do this, I don't have time this right now.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: You're gonna hurt me.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: But I think I think it's more about the fact
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: that I wish that more. In my opinion, unique and
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 3: interesting sounding second wave emo bands were more household names
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 3: rather than Sunny Day real Estate. And by household names,
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: I mean household names within emo people.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: But you don't think like Jawbreaker and Mineral and stuff
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: like that are our household names with mentioned world.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: Okay, fair point. I was mentioning Mineral Earlin, but someone
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 3: else was sharing and I didn't want to interrupt them.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: Mineral does also have some sleepy songs. But I also
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 3: saw Mineral live recently and they they were just more
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 3: interesting to me, And when I listen to them, they're
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 3: just more interesting and more dynamic to me. Probably someone
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: that has to do with tempo. I won't lie. Jawbreaker,
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 3: I think is incredibly dynamic. They have some shit songs,
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 3: They have some very good songs, but totally filler. Yeah,
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 3: but then they have some songs that to me are
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: like ten times better than any Sundaday Real Estate song ever,
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 3: even in Circles, even though I like in Circles, that
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 3: is the song that everyone likes and I also like it.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 3: But like job Breaker, I just think is just a
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 3: better band. I think they're more interesting band.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: All right, sounds good?
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: Well it's it is a hot take, holy cow, if
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: you can't tell, I think it's hot. And also I
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: completely disagree culin where you are.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: I think it's uh the face of the sun hot,
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: and I disagree.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 4: I agree on you with you on so much egg,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 4: but not this hot take.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 3: I knew this would be the one that would make enemies,
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 3: which is why I it's like a compliment sandwich. I
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 3: put one that you guys would agree with at the beginning,
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 3: the one you guys would hate in the middle, and
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 3: then one you will hopefully agree with at the end.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 3: So that's what I take.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: Bad take. All right, Mason, do it to it.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: My second hot Emo take is going to piggy back
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: a little bit off of Culin. So Culin you talked
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: maybe more broadly about how third wave EMO is, you know,
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: this maybe kind of last vestige that we have of
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: like a cultural especially a cultural kind of rock movement
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: that we have and you know, potentially might be the
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: last that we ever have of that. My hot take,
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: piggybacking off of that is despite the fact that I
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: agree with you about the impact culturally that third wave
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: EMO has had musically, just strictly musically, I think fourth
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: wave Emo was the best wave of Emo. So bands
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: like the World's a Beautiful Place, Foxing, that's a little
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm throwing you a softball, Lindsay, Tiny Moving Parts.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: A lot of those like Triple Crown Record bands just
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: like you know, Title Fight, A lot of those bands
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: are I think they encapsulated so many things that we
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: love about emo and did it in such really interesting
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: and beautiful ways. They clearly did not get nearly as
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: mainstream popular as the third wave EMO bands, but I
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: just think that their music is so much better. So
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: my hot take is that fourth wave vemo musically has
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: been the best wave of Mason.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: I agree with you, except I kind of think that
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: fourth wave is a little bit of a rehashing of
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: second wave.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: Fifth wave, seeing I can see that.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 3: Okay, question for you, Mason, answer, do you think Hot
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 3: Mulligan is fourth or fifth wave Emo?
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: So I will say fourth wave in part, in part
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: because I think I think we're still so early on
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: about whether or not fifth wave has actually been created
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: or not. I do hear the arguments for why fifth
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: wave has already emerged, but I do think there's maybe
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: arguments that it's just this continuation of fourth wave. With
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: that said, I do think Hot Mulligan just existed early
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: on enough where they're kind of distinctly fourth wave. I
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: agree like a lot of these like what we would
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: call maybe like supposedly fifth wave emo bands, they really
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: started like maybe right before the pandemic or post pandemic
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: and Hot Mulligan has been around I think considerably longer,
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: at least maybe close to ten years now, and so
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: I think they existed prior to what we would now
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: even describe as like the fifth Wave, if that does exist.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 3: Okay, fully agree with you, And that's why I'm like,
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure I agree with to take fully, but
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 3: I might because I think that fourth Wave started bringing
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 3: back almost like a combination of some of the best
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 3: of third and the best of second Wave, and that's
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 3: why I think it's so incredible. I mean, I would
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 3: consider modern Baseball as well a fourth wave emo band,
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 3: and that's why I try to like I would break
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 3: down waves in the era like in the years, and
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 3: so I would not agree with you that title Fight
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 3: as an emo band. I think they're emo adjacent, but
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 3: I think they're more like you know, they're hardcore adjacent.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 3: Their shoegay is adjacent. Like there's a reason why everyone
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 3: loves them. It's because they're hard to nail down. But yeah,
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 3: I'm not I'm not sure I agree, but I like
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 3: what you're saying, and that's something I actually want to
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 3: chew on because I might actually agree without having known
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 3: that I agree with it.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 4: I'm just gonna go like based off of like what
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 4: I personally like listening to, and it's definitely fourth wave.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 4: Like I mean, I my love of Foxing cannot be contained.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 4: But like I just I think that it's a lot
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 4: more interesting. I think that like a lot of times
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 4: that people consider like I actually had a take on
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 4: this that I am canceling right now, but like where
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 4: I think that we use nostalgia a lot to shade
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 4: our view of older emo music. Whenever there's just much
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 4: more interesting stuff that has come ever since.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 3: And yeah, Okay, Lindsey, you're spot on with that, and
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 3: that actually helps me figure out if I agree with
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 3: Mason or not. What you just said is because there
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 3: was an era of my life I was not listening
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 3: to emo or like pop punk. I literally have a
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 3: Spotify playlist called Neo Emo slash new Er pop Punk
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 3: because I was having a hard time like identifying these
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 3: bands were coming out, and that was stuff like Tiger's
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 3: Jaw and Pop Mulligan and Algernon Cadwalader. Like I'm like, Okay,
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 3: this sounds like some of the like the second Weave
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 3: the most stuff, but some of it's like pop punk ish,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 3: and I was having a hard time identifying that. But
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 3: I think it's taking a lot of what I love
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 3: from those genres and lending them together. And so I
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 3: think think that you might be right, Mason, based on
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 3: what Lindsay just said. I think I just had like
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 3: these rose colored glasses about my third wave emo bands
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 3: and then these and then I learned about these bands
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 3: later on in like twenty seventeen, sixteen to twenty eighteen
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 3: that had started, you know, in the early twenty tens,
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 3: in the fourth wave kind of era, and they're phenomenal,
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 3: They're so good. Like I love Tigers Shaw, I love Aldronon,
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 3: I love modern Baseball, I love Hot Mulligan, and I
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 3: think those are all fourth wave bands.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think you can put like Basement maybe
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: in that like Vein as well, right, And I think,
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: like what's why, I think is maybe unfortunate for a
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: lot of these bands, and I think part of the
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: reason why we don't think of them maybe as highly
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: as we should is the fact that just the music industry,
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: and this is no fault to their own, just the
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: music industry alone collapse at their emergenctru Right, like towards
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: the end. And I think maybe why we can say
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: there's a kind of this distinct line of like when
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: third wave EMO ended is because that's kind of around
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: the time that like we have the emergence of streaming
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: and we lose like any sort of physical media, and
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: so much of third wave EMO was predicated on physical media,
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: especially obviously CDs and MP three's, and I guess MP
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: three's not physical media, but like that kind of way
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: of acquiring your music, whether it's through illegally downloading or whatever.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: But then like the emergence of streaming completely kind of
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: killed that part of the industry and specifically EMO. And
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: then we have all these other bands like Foxing, World's
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: Beautiful Place, Modern Baseball, all, you know, Basement, all those
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: kind of bands. They come kind of even if they
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: existed right before the streaming era, like they became more
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: popular during that timeframe, and so we just sort of
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: we don't have the luster for them in the way
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: that we do with the.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: Third way, you also have to add in the exposure
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: acts aspect, because like I mean, for an EMO band
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: nowadays or in the fourth wave, to get exposure, it
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: became almost impossible could because we don't have that that
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: that shared cultural identity or shared cultural understanding like we
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: did in the two thousands or in the nineties or
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: in the eighties and so on and so forth. So
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: I think the quality has only gone up as time
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: has gone on, but the exposure has gone significantly down.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: And streaming is part of that as well, for sure.
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Mason, I think your point about streaming is spot on.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 3: I mean, I it took me so long, you know,
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 3: I was. I sounded like the old grumpy man, Like
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 3: the best bands are the ones that I listened to
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 3: in high school and college. And then I'm hearing hot Mulligan.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 3: I'm like, where has this been? Like why did what?
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 3: Why did I not hear this? You know, like from
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 3: that like first ep, the you know, adding it's not
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 3: Armadillo Shells. I'm like, this is one of the best
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 3: songs I've ever heard of my entire life, Like where
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 3: where was this? So I think streaming is a huge
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 3: part of that. And as we're having this discussion, I'm
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 3: more and more agreeing with your take, Mason.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: That's what that's my hope, all right, So, uh, how
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: hot is it? And do we agree?
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna say it's an email world, it's probably a
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: seven or eight hot take, but I think in in
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: general terms, i'm gonna say.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: It's a six, and it sounds like you.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 3: I do agree, Yes, I think I agree with everything
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 3: Colan just said.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna give it a six point five on the
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 4: hot take scale.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 2: You're just offence on every single thing tonight. It's my favorite.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's exactly I am here for Lindsay the centrist.
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 4: I'm the centrist. Call me like the Pete Bidda judge
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 4: of this podcast.
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 3: I love him, does everybody?
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 4: Mom My Mom?
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: I guarantee, and I'm sure despises Pete Bodotage.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 4: Judge everybody, but she loves everybody, but she is up
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 4: there anyway. She just hate me too. But yeah, I'm
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 4: gonna go six point five. I do agree with it, though.
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: I would hope so. I would hope so because foxing
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: is you know, thrown in there, So yeah.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 4: You kind of just like worded it that, Yeah.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: I threw you a bone. I threw you a bone, which.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 4: Is crazy because I probably would have gone along with
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 4: it anyway.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, Lindsey, what is your second hot take?
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 4: My second hot take is that we should bring back
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 4: really really shitty collaborative emo pop punk albums like we
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 4: had in two thousand and eight. Okay, elaborate, Okay, Oh
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 4: my god, did you guys never get into the albums
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 4: where it was like some I forgot was it the
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 4: main or was it Bailey for not Bailey Bail Just
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 4: like In Love with a Stripper by Akon the best
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 4: was just like the best.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: Of those altogether since you've been gone, remember.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: Colin, Oh, like the like the punk.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 3: You're talking about, like emo goes pop, Colin, you mentioned
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 3: something you're stealing my third take. But yeah, so Lindsay,
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 3: you mean the the the emo goes pop.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 4: Compilations, Yeah, those things, and like they also did hip hop,
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 4: which was often problematic actually because I think that like
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 4: Max Bemis might have said that N word, so.
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 3: Like that I would not make that to be fair.
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, go back, cancel him anyway, come back here, and
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 4: so that is mine? Is that like we need? And
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 4: like also also on the same note, Snakes on a
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 4: Plane was Magic in a Bottle. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 4: I'm the only one brave enough to say that Snakes
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 4: on a Plane was a good song. Did you guys,
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 4: never get into snakes off.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: I love Samuel L. Jackson.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 3: No, are you talking about the movie? No, guys, no,
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 3: what is happening? Did you guys confused?
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: I'm so confused.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 4: You guys are so Christian. Whenever the movie Snakes on
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 4: a Plane came out, there was a song that there
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 4: was Cobra Starship, which was like Academy is and like,
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 4: just I forget who all was in it. They did
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 4: a song called Snakes on a Plane. You guys don't know, Like,
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry, this is mind blowing to me. No, I
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 4: wasn't hit. It's a thing, like I don't know what
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 4: to do with this. You guys never heard this?
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 3: Okay, wait, so so circle back. Why did you bring
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 3: this song up?
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 4: Because it was a ton of emo people who well
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 4: like pop punk. But we're gonna go with emo just
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 4: because like hasn't seen because you know, emo is just
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 4: like the fans and not the actual genre anyway, we're
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 4: just tying all it together. This is the actual compilation
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 4: that I'm right, don't care. They wrote a song called
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 4: Snakes on a Plane for the movie where it so
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 4: good you don't even know how to describe it. Okay,
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 4: Tom's a strange. We got a free upgrade for Snakes
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 4: on a Plane.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: That sounds super.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 3: It's so.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 4: I am short circuiting because I cannot believe.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, quick quick side tangent Uh do you do? You
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: all remember the bad TV edits when they have to
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: like change out like cuss words and stuff like that.
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: My all time favorite one Snakes on a Plane and
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: Samuel L. Jackson he was supposed to say in the
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: in the film, he says, I've had it with these
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: motherfucking snakes on this motherfucking.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 4: Plane, and he says it in the song to clip it.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: In the TV edit they change it to I've had
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: it with these monkey fighting snakes on this Monday to
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: Friday plane. It's the best.
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, that's so good. Okay, So lindsay your
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 3: take is bring back the Email pop or em goes Yeah.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So the actual album is called It's Punk Goes Pop.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: There it is.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 3: I knew I was saying it wrong.
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, so that's where it exists. Apparently I
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 4: should have researched this morning. Apparently I should have found
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 4: out that people did not all universally listen to Snakes
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 4: on a plane like ten times in a row. It's
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 4: so good. It's so good. They clipped the movie and
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 4: they're like and then it's like a little rappy bit.
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 4: It's so good, it's so stupid. It's like one of
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 4: the songs where you're like, I know, I'm gonna hate
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 4: this song. Whenever I turned like thirty.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: Six, it just sounds like very early YouTube.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 4: That's what it was, and it was fantastic, and I
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 4: think that society was better when we did that, Like
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 4: when we did that as a society, we got rid
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 4: of George w Bus shortly later, like that couldn't have happened.
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 4: How do we not done pop goes punk? And how
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 4: do we not done snakes on a plane? Like that's
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 4: what usher that is. I'm gonna say this, that's a
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 4: problematic take.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: Actually, lindsay, yeah, I love you, but I disagree. I
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: think that this is this is one of those things
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: that is better left in the past. And I'm only
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: going to say that because everybody tried doing it then,
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 2: because everybody was looking for I think it's actually one
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: of those things that actually helped kill emo punk and
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: even like the metal core genres, because it became like
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: this chintzy way to commercialize a tune like again, yeah,
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: you know where I actually think it started. I think
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 2: it started with alien ant Farm Smooth Criminals a fantastic
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: cover and so has the data remembers since you've been gone,
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: and there's a there's a bunch of good tunes on there.
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: But now everybody all of a sudden tried to do
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: the exact same thing. They tried to have their big moment.
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: Like I remember every single band that was coming out
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: at the time was trying to do a Lady Gaga
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: cover some.
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: Further Scenes forever. Their their biggest song on Spotify to
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: this day, is I want it that way? That's a
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: tragedy or no, sorry, it's bye bye bye.
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 2: So I am fully disagreeing with you.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 4: I think it's just crazy to find out that, Like
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 4: I feel like I've known you, and I just find
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 4: out that you hate unity and you hate fun and
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 4: that's crazy. That's so crazy, you said, I'm sorry it
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 4: might be it's so cheesy, but are you going to
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 4: have a bad time as you sing along to that
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 4: at a concert? You're not going, but you're going to
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 4: be having the time of your life. That's why would
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 4: ever like, did you know that this year that Drake
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 4: released the song Hotline Bling, Suffian Stevens performed that song
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 4: more than him.
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: I Love You.
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 4: People were crying over his mother and then all of
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 4: a sudden he brings out Hotline Bling, and you know what,
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 4: for a second, we could sit there and mourn with
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 4: this man but also have a really good time because
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 4: he knew how to expertly drop a cover. You just
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 4: got to know how to expertly do that. And I
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 4: think that people during that era, they knew how to
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 4: do that. Except for Max b Miss Max Bemus is canceled, but.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: The rest of yea.
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 2: Disclaimer, I am not against covers whatsoever. No, that's so
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: crazy because I'm against these chintzy covers where we're just
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: chasing clicks and plays and I.
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 4: Want to say, they're like only chasing safety. Go ahead,
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 4: wait what Like they're only chasing safety, like the safety
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 4: of the numbers in the stream. It made a lot
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 4: of sense in my head. I'm like, oh, that's a
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 4: go and drop that a lot, But apparently apparently not.
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 3: It went whooh over my head. I was like, you
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 3: are not hitting on that. Okay. Two things, One lindsay
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 3: I love that, you know that statistic that did Hotline
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 3: bling more than drug at his tours. That's amazing. I'm
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 3: also a little bit jealous that when I saw Suo film,
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 3: he didn't do it.
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: So that I feel really confident that the only person
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: that was actually counting was also Lindsay.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 4: No uh uh uh uh setless dot com. Setless dot
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 4: Com has it all.
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 3: It's a banger. My second response is I feel torn
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 3: between Colon is saying and what Lindsay is saying. I
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 3: love a good cover fully, Uh, come on, come on
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 3: a lean, you know, say Ferris cover, real big Fish
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 3: cover and take on me like there's just been so many.
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 3: I mean, I was introduced to electric like Orchestra by
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 3: Faver and Frenzy, like you know, and I love a
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 3: love a good cover. But I do agree to some
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 3: extent that it became a cash grab and it became
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 3: just this thing that made like the you know, emo
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 3: genre and it's subgenre's kind of a joke, and a
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 3: lot of people were just like, what what is this,
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 3: you know, like they're not good enough to do their
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 3: own songs, they're just covering these popular songs. At the
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 3: same time, it might have also given exposure to some
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 3: of those bands where like I like this Kelly Clarkson song, Oh,
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 3: like there's some yelling in it that makes me feel
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 3: cool and edgy. Let me listen to this band, and
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 3: then they get exposed you know, to A Day to
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 3: Remember or whatever other adjacent band. So I feel extremely
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 3: torn on this one. To be honest, I don't. I
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 3: think it is a mildly hot take because I don't
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 3: know how many people would agree with it, and I
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 3: don't have to agree with it. Yeah, I don't even
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 3: know if I agree with it. I mean, I think
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 3: covers are cool, not sure we need the compilations. Yeah,
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 3: that's where I stand.
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: I think it's probably pretty unlikely that somebody listened to
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: the Kelly Clarkson cover from A Data Remember and was like,
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to get into their music. Like, I
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: think that's unlikely. I'm not saying that never happened, just
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: saying it's unlikely or there were very few, like in
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: terms of like the return on investment for that probably
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: was pretty low. However, what I will say is like
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: I think of, like, you know, some of these bands,
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, you know, they clearly like when they're
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: on tour and they're listening to whatever from getting from
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: one town to the other, and they're probably listening to
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: Kelly Clarkson, or they're listening to Drake, or they're listening
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: to whatever, and they're probably thinking, like, what would like
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: our version of that be, Like I can't imagine, Like
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: that's got to be just a fun thing to do,
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: and I like, you know, embrace the cringe of that,
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: like I think that's kind of cool.
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 4: Oh it's cringey. Let me be clear, it's very cringey.
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: And uh so, yeah, I think I agree with you, Lindsay.
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: I think I think we should bring it back. I
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: don't know if we should go as far as bringing
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: it back to like we should create these compilations and
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: make this a cash grab. I do think the critiques
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: calling and mega making are pretty good about that. However,
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: if like you know, if I'm trying to think, like, uh,
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: like if Orgami Angel wants to do some like cool
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: emo riff off of like some I don't know, yeah,
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: like a Chapel Yeah, that's a great. Yeah, like a
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: Chapel Rone song, Like any emo band should be able
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: to do, like a Chapel Road song. And that'd be
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: fun right now, I think.
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 4: So let me just also push back a little bit
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 4: against that. It's impossible to do cash grab in music
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 4: right now, so it's safe music, so it's fine.
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: They're just cheap in the art point point man uh.
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: I will say, in terms of hot take scale, I
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: think it's like a six point five like you would
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: maybe put it Lindsey, So I agree with it. It
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: sounds like Colin disagrees with it, but I would put
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: it in the six point five range, like it's pretty
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: hot but like not the hottest, but I have to
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: agree with it.
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 4: I will say the Amberlyn had a B sides album,
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 4: and that's how I got into like bands like the
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 4: Care and stuff is because they just covered these songs
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 4: and they did it terribly, but they still did it
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 4: and it like exposed me as song as I wouldn't
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 4: have otherwise. Yeah, so beneficial. Hm.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: See, I thought you were going to like a totally
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: different like when you first said it. I thought you
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: were saying that there were like bands that were doing
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: like collaborations with each other, so I was like totally
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: throw it. But then once you started bringing up like
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: the punk ghost pop stuff. I'm like, oh, I've had
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: the same thought too, we should totally bring this back.
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah. So it was like too, like we should do
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 4: the collaborations and we should also do the like yeah,
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 4: the the sort of album stuff.
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: Good good, take good, take all Right, Colin, I think
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: we're back to you on our las.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: This is going to be pretty hot. I think, oh,
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 2: third wave EMO is at its essence more authentic than
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 2: first or second wave EMO. And I'm gonna say this
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 2: because eighties and nineties emo, first and second wave emo
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 2: was coded and covert, and in its rawness it was
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 2: still raw, right, but it was covert. They were not
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 2: saying the things that they actually mean out loud for
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: a general audience. And I would say also, like, you know,
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: obviously third WAVEVEMO is much more commercially successful, but commercial
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 2: success does not mean that you have sold out, and
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: it also does not mean that it can't be authentic.
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: I don't think any of us would say that The
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 2: Middle by Jimmy Eat World is in an inauthentic song
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: just because it made a bunch of money or because
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 2: it became very popular, And.
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: Also say because Mason sings it every time he's at karaoke.
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is every every time of karaoke. And I'll
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 2: also say this, I also think that to or the
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 2: third wave emo allowed a general population of music listening
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 2: men and boys to explore emotional literacy in a way
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: that was not as risky. That's my main argument with that.
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 4: I agree with that last point entirely. I like, I
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 4: really think that once we stopped like having letting me like,
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 4: once we gave no offense to you guys, but once
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 4: we gave men podcasts instead of guitars, bad things started happening.
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 3: Hell yeah, good take Lindsay no offense.
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 2: I didn't hear what you said, Lindsay.
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I am with Lindsay. The last thing you said,
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 3: I agree fully. I think that I remember a mutual
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 3: friend of Lindsay and I is like made I think
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 3: I think it was. I think she's friend of yours.
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 3: Made some comment about like who do men have that?
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 3: You know women have? Taylor Swift, who who men have?
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 3: And there's lots of people in the comments that correctly
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 3: said emo hardcore punk, Like you know, that's that's what
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 3: the guys have, Like two expression emotions depending on the band,
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 3: depending on the song. You know, I am not sure.
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 3: I agree with you that it's the most authentic.
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 4: But.
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 2: I think it's more authentic than First and Second.
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 3: Okay, okay, sure compared to First and Second, I'm still
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 3: not sure I agree with you being The only reason
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 3: is because third wave was definitively the most commercial that
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 3: EMO has ever been, and so there were a lot
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 3: of bands that came out of third wave EMO that
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 3: were what's the word like they were corporate. They just
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 3: were like, I'm not I can't say this with like authority,
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 3: but like Hawthorne Heights felt that way to me.
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 3: I remember hearing them on the radio and being like,
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 3: what is this Like this is just a copy of
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 3: a copy of the bands that I'm listening to. It
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 3: didn't seem like super good. Now I can say that
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 3: it's catchy, I can say that it's good, and maybe
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 3: it was authentic, but this sound just seemed it just
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 3: seemed like there were bands that were just constantly trying
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 3: to sound like bands that did that first. And I
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 3: know everyone's influenced by everyone else, but I think the
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 3: commercialization of third bave EMAO became slightly problematic, but doesn't
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 3: mean we need to write off all of the third
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 3: bave Emo Clearly, I don't. I go I go to
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 3: Emo Knights. I love those bands. I mean I have
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 3: went and seen many third braave EMAOL bands and paid
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 3: way too much money to do that. But I'm not
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 3: sure I agree with it that it's more authentic than
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 3: First and second Wave, and specifically because third Rave EMAO
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 3: bands definitively were making more money than first and second Wave,
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 3: and you have to really believe in the thing that
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 3: you're doing if you're not making money off of it.
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 3: And so that's why I think I might push back on.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: That take along those lines. In terms of specifically lyrical authenticity,
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: I would say I disagree with you, Colin, at least
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: on that part of the take, because you mentioned like
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: some sort of like you know, it was like more
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: covert in the first and second waves or whatever. I
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: think that was just because like those artists were just
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: like more lyrically gifted, like they were, they were better artists,
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: they were they were more poetic, and a lot of times,
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: like when you have really poetic lyrics, it's gonna feel
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 1: more covert. Whereas I do think because of the how
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: much infiltration and how much saturation there was in third
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: wave emo. You just got maybe I wouldn't call it
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: cheesier lyrics, but you just got like maybe less refined,
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: less sophisticated lyrics that didn't feel as covert, and therefore
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: it felt like way more outward about, like what the
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: emotional landscape of that person that was writing the lyrics was,
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: rather than the you know, nineteen eighties like super underground
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: dude or you know, Jerremy Eenich or whatever. It's gonna
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: be more covert because the is there, like super poet.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 2: I'm going to push and I'll push back on that,
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 2: and I'll just listen to my chemical romance they are using.
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 2: They are they are getting their point across in a
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: very very poetic way while also maintaining this this ultra
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: wide crowd appeal. Right again, I don't think that commercialization
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 2: really has anything to do with it, and I really
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 2: do believe that. I mean, I know you're not a
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 2: Beatles fan there, Meg, But when the Beatles started talking
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 2: about their own personal lives and the struggles of the
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: world instead of just talking about love the entire time,
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden they gained a completely different crowd
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 2: that started listening to them. They did not have to
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 2: use flowery language. And I'm not trying to use the
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 2: Beatles for necessarily a comparison, per se. But what I
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 2: am trying to say is that you don't need to
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: be flowery with your language in order to get across
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 2: the most important points that you're trying to get across.
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 2: If you're trying to get across these super emotional topics,
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 2: you might as well speak plainly and be raw.
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 3: I hate that I agree with both of you, Mason.
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 3: I think that you explained that so wonderfully, like I
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 3: just absolutely agree, But I still stand by what I
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 3: said that as far as authenticity, when someone is being
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 3: fully authentic to me, that means that it does not
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 3: matter who is listening to, how popular you are and
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 3: what money you're making. You're like, this is what I
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 3: have to give. This as an output. I feel these
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 3: things inside of me, I have to write them down,
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 3: I have to put them out into the world. It
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 3: does not matter the commercial success or any of that stuff.
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 3: And because the wave EMO became such a cultural phenomenon,
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 3: you had people that attached themselves to it and did
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 3: give output that was not as authentic. I am not
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 3: saying Colin that there are not authentic third wave EMAO bands. Obviously,
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 3: I agree with you in those things. I mean, even
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 3: like something a band like Panic at the Disco, Like
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 3: their lyrics they were quoting Chuck Palaack like all over
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 3: the place, Like their song titles are referencing his books,
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 3: and and they're brilliant and they're super poppy, and they
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 3: became super popular. But their songwriting was incredible. I mean,
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 3: that's why I love that first album. Don't like their
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 3: later stuff, love the first album. So that's why I'm
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 3: really torn on this one because I think I agree
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 3: with both of you, but I don't agree with the
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 3: actual take that is more authentic than first and second wave. Okay,
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 3: I'll shut up now. Lindsay was gonna say something.
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 4: Oh no, I was just gonna say I I don't
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 4: think that. I don't think it's better than that, like
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 4: than the first or second wave. Like IM this might
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 4: be a pretty controversial take, but I really think that
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 4: one of the worst emo lyrics that has ever been
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 4: put out there is and I will sing along to it,
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 4: don't get me wrong, but cut my wrist in black
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 4: my eyes, Like I just agreed, they really like we're
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 4: just like you know what we're going for it, We're
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 4: just gonna like and I just feel like it just
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 4: even at the time, it's like this feels so hamfisted
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 4: and like it was a hugely important lyric because that
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 4: was a very defining lyric of the time, but like
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 4: at the same time, it's like just like we're just
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 4: gonna put everything into a lyric and like you don't
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 4: need it to be super flowery. But even if you're
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 4: talking about the Beatles, like on the same album where
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 4: the Beatles were doing like well my gets hard gently weeps,
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 4: they had a song called Rocky Raccoon about like a
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 4: little cowboy who's like going around like yeah, like I
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 4: just I don't know, I don't think that like you, I,
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 4: you don't need it to be super flowery. But at
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 4: the same time, it really did just feel like this
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 4: is what's going to get us money. And like there
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 4: are a lot of bands that we look back on
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 4: and we're like, yeah, these are the greats, but there
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 4: were a lot of bands that we don't remember because
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 4: like the like they were just going with what's else,
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 4: but like what shirts would put them on the wall
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 4: of hot topic and that was it or we.
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 3: Do remember them, Lindsay, because they had the one hit
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 3: that was trying to attach itself to a cultural moment,
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 3: like you. The lyrics that you brought up are a
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 3: perfect example of that. I heard it on the radio
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 3: and my mom was like, isn't this the kind of
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 3: music you like? And I was like, you know, like yes,
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 3: but no.
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 2: I like, I will say that I like the first
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 2: and second wave EMO far better than third Wave. But
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 2: I do think that third wave was just more authentic
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 2: in its in its presentation to a wider audience.
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 3: Man a presentation to a wire audience. Yeah, but authenticity, man.
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 2: I just think, why would I say it if I didn't?
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: You say a lot of shit?
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 3: So I just figured, you know, anyway, Lindsay, I think
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 3: you explained that really well and I agree with you.
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 4: Thank you. You like there's like a lyric that like that.
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 4: Hayley Williams recently dropped where it's like I got buried
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 4: in combat based and I only listened to testosterone music.
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 4: And I think that's like a really good line to
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 4: like reconceptualize and look back on the scene and be like,
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 4: this is not something that was what the artist felt
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 4: was very authentic.
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: All right, So it sounds like we all disagree, am
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 1: I Am I right about that? In terms of hotness
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 1: of the take, I would say it seems pretty hot.
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: Like I think maybe the general like if if somebody
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: who wasn't really ever into music but they grew up
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 1: as a millennial and they knew about EMO music, they
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: would maybe say that maybe that's not a very hot
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: take or whatever. But I think among people who are
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: familiar with the different waves of EMO, this probably is
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: one of the hotter takes.
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 4: Colin, I'm going to give that a seven point six.
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 2: Like Pat, you're looking for that seven point six.
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's a I think Mason, Lindsay and
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 3: I all don't quite agree with you, but I think
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 3: it's like a seven to eight on the hot scale
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 3: as well.
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 1: There we go, all right, Meg, I think you're up
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: with your last hot take.
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 3: Okay, it is interesting that we were just all pushing
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 3: back on Collin's take because I'm also about to talk
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 3: about third wave EMO a little bit. Hopefully this isn't
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 3: like a super hot take, but according to people on
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 3: the internet, it is Emo Knights. I have mentioned already.
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 3: I strongly believe that Emo Knights are generally fun, not lame,
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 3: and are not only for people who don't know what
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 3: real EMO is. And this hot take might just be
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 3: me verbally responding to a lot of the comments I've
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 3: seen on red or Instagram, but oh my god, I'm
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 3: so tired of seeing them. Like a few months ago,
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 3: I literally saw three of these kind of comments on
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 3: different subreddits within three weeks, Like, I was so frustrated.
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 3: I actually, when I was preparing for this, I went
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 3: back into my Reddit history to find one so I
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 3: can read it word for word. Someone said EMA Knight
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 3: is a soulless cash grab for people that only know
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 3: the hits of EMO songs but don't want to see
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 3: those bands live for whatever reason. So obviously I was
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 3: like what. And then there were other comments on that
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 3: about the kind of people who go to Emo Knights
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 3: are the kind of people who refuse to go to
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 3: local shows and rarely, if ever pay to see the
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 3: bands that are even played it Emo Knights. So I
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 3: was just flabbergasted, knowing how wildly inaccurate that is, at
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 3: least for me and my friends. So I, because I'm crazy,
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 3: went back and counted I went to forty three shows
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four, which I understand is kind of insane.
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 3: One of those was an Emo Knight, and most of
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 3: those shows we're local hardcore punk, emo, et cetera bands,
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 3: but a handful of them were also bands you'd hear
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 3: like at an Emo Knight, like I saw Jamie Eat World,
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 3: for example. I completely get the complaint that Emo Knights
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 3: don't play a lot of actual EMO, or especially new
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 3: R Emo. That's fair, but I think the rhetoric of
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 3: they shouldn't call themselves an Emo Knight is just nitpicky
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 3: and pretentious, like taking Next Sunday the Used, and as
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 3: we've already said my Chemical Romance, they are third wave
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 3: Emo and they are always played at Emo Knights. You
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 3: don't have to like that specific third wave Emo sound,
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 3: but to whine that it's not real emo is like
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 3: the freaking copy pasta Reddit thing that we know from
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 3: forever go. It's just embarrassing to be that like pretentious
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 3: and gatekeeping. And so that being said, I do and
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 3: will still continue to make jokes about like Pop a
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 3: Roach and System of a Down getting played at Emo Knights.
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 3: You know, I literally like we'll record it being like ah, yes,
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 3: System of a down my favorite emo band, and you know,
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 3: even there was one Emo night into that played Kelly Clarkson.
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 3: You know, like they played since You've Being Gone, not
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 3: the Day to Remember cover of Since You've Being Gone,
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 3: but the actual Kelly Clarkson version of it. But it
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 3: doesn't really bother me that much, you know, like people
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 3: are having fun, and fun is generally good. And plus
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 3: most of the bands that are played at those Emo
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 3: Knights are at least Emo adjacent and the rest of
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 3: them are just like millennial A bangers, you know, And
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 3: I will gladly happily wrap every word to in the
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 3: end with my friends and have a great time doing so,
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 3: and then I'll pop off when they play Newfun Glory,
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 3: who I'm fully wear is not emo, they're pop punk,
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 3: But again I do not care. And so the point is, like,
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 3: if I want to go to someplace to dance with
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 3: my friends, get a couple drinks, have good vibes, I'd
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 3: so much rather go to a space that's playing music
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 3: I actually liked in high school and even still like today,
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 3: instead of a club where they're playing top forty music,
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 3: most of which I wasn't allowed to listen to in
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 3: high school. Because of the lyrical content, you know, like
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 3: even when they play Panic at the disco at Emo Knights,
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 3: I still don't say God Damn because I learned to
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 3: not say that. I would trained myself not to say that,
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 3: like like a white person should train themselves. I would no, no, no,
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 3: I would say like blank damn like that on the
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 3: edited version, like I would literally not say it, you know,
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 3: like a white person should train themselves not to say
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 3: the an word, like I literally did that, like at
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 3: these things. And so my point is that like gate
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 3: gatekeeping Emo Knights and saying they shouldn't call themselves Emo
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 3: Knights is like so stupid and so lame. They do
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 3: play Emo, and they play Emo Jason stuff, and who cares.
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 3: It's great to have that chemutal aspect. My only gripe
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 3: with Emo Knights, and I'm pretty sure it's the actually
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 3: only one, is that I wish they played some newer
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 3: Emo and Emo Jicent music. And I do get. Like
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 3: we've talked about one of the draws of these Emo Knights,
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 3: one of the massive parts of it is the nostalgia factor.
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 3: But when I'm at an Emo Knight and I hear
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 3: Hot Mulligan or the story so far, or even freaking
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 3: knocked loose, who is definitively not Emo getting played, Like,
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 3: I get so excited because here I am at this
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 3: venue or bar or club and on this speakers is
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 3: playing music that I listened to on a regular basis,
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 3: and that's always just going to feel cool to me,
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 3: even if I have to hear Avril Levine or three
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 3: h three you know in between, like it's fine, It's
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 3: worth it. So that is my hot take. Ema Nites
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 3: are great.
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 4: Go to them.
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 3: It doesn't mean that you won't go support local shows.
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 2: I like Emma Knights, I don't love them mainly just
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 2: because I've heard too much like Miley Cyrus and other
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 2: really out of left field stuff at them.
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 3: I've never heard Miley Cyrus at one, but that's crazy.
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 2: Actually, the one, the one that Mason and I were
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 2: at before Furnace Fest a couple of years ago. They
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 2: played a party in the USA and things like that,
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 2: and I'm just like, all right, I'm not I'm not
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 2: into this. This really killed the vibe for me, you know.
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 2: But what really makes it fun is live karaoke, like
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 2: live band karaoke, Emo Knight. That is the most fun
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 2: I've ever had.
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 3: You mean when they have a live band doing cover songs.
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but then like they like people from the crowd
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 2: like sign up to do karaoke okay while the band
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 2: is doing it. It's so much fun.
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 3: I have heard of those. I have wanted to go
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 3: to them so badly. I've never been to one.
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 2: They're good, they're the best. I've never had so much fun.
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 3: Okay, good to know. I'll put it on my to
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 3: do list.
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the way to go.
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 1: It's a quick way.
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 2: If they all turned into that, it would be so
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 2: much more enjoyable because there's like this, there's not like
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 2: a disconnection between the music, Like you're there to listen
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 2: and to jam out to the music, and if the
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 2: person who's singing isn't that good, who cares. We're all
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 2: doing it together. It makes it so much more, so
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 2: much more fun. And they have all the lyrics ready
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 2: to go for you. Yeah, so you don't have to, like,
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 2: you know, go look them up or something like that.
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 2: So much more fun.
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 3: Does it feel more like communal that way.
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 2: Way more communal?
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 3: Cool.
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 2: So if it was more along those lines, I would
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 2: be going to every single one.
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, I think I probably generally agree with you. The
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 1: only thing I want to riff off of your take
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: is you you were talking about sort of your how
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 1: disgruntled you are when you know, System of Down gets
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 1: played or Newfound Glory or whatever. And it's not not
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 1: to say that we like don't enjoy those bands and
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: enjoy those songs. We'd all do, but you know, there's
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 1: kind of this like this isn't really emo. What this
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 1: is making me think though, is there is something in
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 1: this I think kind of goes along maybe Collins take
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 1: from like a take or two ago, is there's something
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 1: to be said about whatever reason. In the general ether
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 1: of American pop culture, of especially millennial pop culture, just
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 1: anything with a guitar in the two thousands was almost
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 1: considered emo. Like it didn't matter if it was System
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 1: of a Down or or mi leyst Cyrus, Like, if
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 1: there was a guitar playing, it was just seen as
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 1: like emo or like or at least now we think
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 1: of it as like, well, that must have been emo,
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: and it's so funny that like that's how we remember it,
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: or that other people would remember it that way. Anyway.
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 2: I just was that is that why Kelly picked up
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 2: a guitar.
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 4: Guitar.
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, Mason, maybe I explained it poorly, but I
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 3: was actually saying the opposite. I was saying, I actually
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 3: don't care at all that they do play New Fungal
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 3: like they do play non Emo. I love Yufung Glory.
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 3: I love the story so far, Like if they're playing
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 3: those bands at Emo Knights, they're adjacent enough that I
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 3: love it. I was I was making fun of more
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 3: like Papa Roach and they're they're not Emo, But you're right.
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 3: Even those bands, even though they're they're not as adjacent
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 3: as New fung Glorioustores so far, they're they're like still
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 3: millennial all bangers that like when they get played, I'm
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 3: gonna be like he yeah, you know, it's fine.
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 1: But isn't it funny that like almost anything that we
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 1: would consider like a millennial alt banger is just now
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 1: sort of seen as like that's that was an emo band,
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 1: or that was like you were emo if you listen
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 1: to that, like so many people like if you were
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 1: even if you just enjoyed mister Brightside, now you're scene
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 1: as like well I grew up emo or whatever, and
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 1: it was like, yeah, what that mister brightside that that's
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 1: all it took for you to become emo? Was you
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 1: just enjoyed that song?
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 3: I think that's what my high school students think they.
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 2: Do for real, they do. I I played actually I
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 2: played Toxicity the other day, and my students are like,
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 2: were you an emo? This is not Emo?
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 3: They're like, yeah, wait, Colin, what did you play?
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 2: I missed that Toxicity?
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 3: Toxicity? I played them American Football yesterday because we were
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 3: doing work, and I was like, I feel like I
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 3: can get away with this. It's slow enough.
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah you can. You can definitely do that,
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 2: not the huts of takes.
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 4: But I think I agree, Okay, lindsay, I yeah, I
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 4: mean I have honestly never been to an emo night
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 4: if I'm being real honest here, But like with the
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 4: whole like, oh, you could just go see the concert,
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 4: like the band in concert. Half of these bands are
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 4: not capable performing anymore.
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 3: Like taking back say yeah, taking back to it. Yeah, No, lindsay,
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 3: I do think you would, like you specifically, I do
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 3: think you would enjoy it, just just.
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 4: I think I would have the time in my life.
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 4: I just I haven't. Like, I mean, we three kids,
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 4: it's hard I just never leave the house anymore. This
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 4: is like, yeah, just stationed here all the time.
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, that's the true emo experience.
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 4: That is, I live in my basement, I'm playing sins
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 4: listening to music. I'm like sixteen again.
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 3: To be honest, you probably listen to a lot more
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 3: music than I do these days.
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 1: All Right, I think it's my turn, right, Yeah, I'm
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 1: gonna what we'll do, maybe quick honorable mentions at the end,
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 1: because I'm gonna do an audible right in this moment. Uh,
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 1: in part because Meg, you had a very hot take
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 1: of an overrated band, so I'm gonna do potentially a
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 1: hot take of a very underrated band. In Okay, Okay,
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 1: I'm going to say the apple Seed Cast is the
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 1: most underrated emo band of all time, And I would
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 1: go as far go as far to say it's like
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 1: not even close. Like I don't even think there's other
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 1: bands that are even remotely close to me and as
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 1: underrated is as the apple Seed Cast.
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 2: So that is uh.
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I want to give more reason
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 1: other than the fact that like they they, I mean,
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 1: they clearly they. What's interesting about the apple Seed Cast
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 1: They almost started out like if you listened to a
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 1: lot of their early stuff, it was kind of like
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 1: a punk vibe, like very fast type of songs, kind
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 1: of punk riffs, and then they like clearly morphed into
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 1: almost like this post rock type of band and again
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 1: a cover band basically now right, and it's just like
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 1: it's amazing. And then even with their like most recent
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 1: album with kind of this like electronic vibe going on,
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 1: like they've been able to cover or like kind of
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 1: put they're able to like kind of put their hand
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 1: on like so many different types of like alternative genres.
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 1: I just think they're incredibly underrated. I mean, if you
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 1: go on like their Spotify right now, like it might
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 1: be twenty maybe thirty thousand monthly listeners, and I genuinely
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 1: am like shocked by that every time I listen to them,
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 1: because they're just they're so good. They don't they have
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 1: enough discography where that you would think that they would
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 1: be more well known. They're just one of those bands
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 1: that are just criminally, criminally underrated, I think, just in general,
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 1: but certainly the most underrated emo band of all time.
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 2: I wholeheartedly agree, And they're amazing, live so good life.
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's a very hot take though, Mason.
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 3: What okay, I was telling a friend earlier today. I'm
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 3: the kind of person that if I have a strong opinion,
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 3: I will die on that hill, even if it makes enemies,
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 3: which I hope the two of you are still friends
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 3: with me after this podcast. But if I don't know something,
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 3: I have no qualm saying I don't. I don't know.
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 3: I have not listened to the Apposley Cast enough. I
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 3: think I've heard a few songs when I was in college.
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 3: I don't know why they missed me. And that might
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 3: be proving your point, Mason, that they that I didn't
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 3: have friends that were like, oh you like this band.
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 3: Listen to the Appositly Cast, you know, Like that's a
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 3: lot of times how we hear about music. It's just
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 3: like the adjacent thing. I mean, I listened to Norma
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 3: Jean and there's this guy yelling along in this song,
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 3: and someone's like, oh, that's the guy of me without you,
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 3: and I'm like what, And that's how I've you know,
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 3: gotten to me without you. And I just don't think
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 3: that I listened to them enough to even know whether
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 3: or not I can agree with you so I'm just
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 3: gonna agree with you because you know more about this
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 3: than me.
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 2: What's interesting is apple Seed Cast is actually such an
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 2: important band to me, Mason that I remember where I
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 2: was when I sent you the video, and.
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 1: I remember how I remember you sending me that video,
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 1: and that's how I discovered them.
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's crazy.
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 2: I was hiding in boxes at Low's because I worked
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 2: at Low's, and I was like, I just want to
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 2: break and I was like, oh, look at this, Mason's
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 2: got to hear this.
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 3: That's cute.
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 2: It was, Yeah, it was, it was super cute.
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, they're truly incredible. Like I'm telling you, like
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 1: anybody who has not listened to Appleseed Cast and you're
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 1: just gonna listen to again, Like you can kind of
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 1: go to any part of their discography and you're gonna
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 1: be like, how have I not heard of this before?
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 1: Because it's so quintessentially emo in so many different ways,
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 1: Like there's a whole breakup album to conversations, this is
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 1: a whole breakup album. I mean, it's just like everything
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 1: about them is so quintessentially email, from their early stuff
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 1: to even their newer stuff, and you're gonna be like,
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 1: how did I miss them? If you don't know of
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 1: them yet, it's just crazy.
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 2: I bet Linda, you got nothing.
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 4: I've never listened to that. I guess that I I know,
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 4: I know, but like there being that, like I don't
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 4: know they missed me, and so yeah, there's to prove
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 4: your point. I suppose I think that they're criminally underrated
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 4: band because I have never heard listened to them.
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 2: That is wild to me. That neither.
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 4: Maybe it's only for Maybe it's only for the guys.
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 4: Maybe that's the issue.
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 2: I don't think.
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 4: No, it's a sexism.
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 1: We'll go with it.
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 4: You're not you're not allowed to say what is it?
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 4: Is not Misogynyairight now.
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 2: Make a judgment before you've ever even listened to them?
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 2: That makes sense.
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 1: I think it was spot if I be misogynistic that
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 1: they wouldn't put you put them in your feet because
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 1: they were like, this is a boy band.
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 4: I've canceled Spotify.
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 1: It was Apple Music that was misogynistic that they wouldn't
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 1: put you.
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 4: I only used the underground French apps that I don't
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 4: know how to say.
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 1: LimeWire than one of what is it?
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 4: Whatbuzz you got?
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 3: You ka?
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 4: No q o b u z.
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 3: I've never never heard of that.
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 2: That sounds like a strange cocktail. You get it.
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 4: It's not literally, it's literally.
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 2: Could I get a kabbaz?
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 4: I can't believe you guys. Yeah, see, look it's literally.
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 4: I don't know how to like show it. But it's
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 4: a French app and they give the artists the highest
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 4: amount of streams, and the audio quality is incredible and
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 4: the discography is fantastic.
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 1: Let me see what's the subscription payment?
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 4: It's actually less than Spotify? Think what, it's really good?
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 1: Are there just like very few artists on it?
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 4: Or what? No, here's Apple Seeds cast right now?
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 2: I got them to blind Side? Do they have Blindside's Discovery?
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 4: My god, Colin, do you think they're not gonna have
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 4: blind Side?
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 2: Almost no one has Blindside Spotify they have like.
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 4: Two albums Blindside Missing.
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 2: Do they have all the Blindside albums? Do they have
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 2: a thought crushed my mind?
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I think that. I think the thing
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 1: with that, though, Colin, is if it's not on one,
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 1: it's probably not gonna be on any of the they
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 1: do they do?
• 2:03:49
  Speaker 2: They do have it.
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 4: They do have it. I'm telling you the only thing
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 4: I found missing. There's a p D album that's missing. There,
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 4: Pretty Girls make Graves album that's missing.
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 2: But like you can like around it that like so
• 2:04:01
  Speaker 2: very anti American.
• 2:04:04
  Speaker 4: Okay, they won't have PUSA on there?
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 2: Are you kidding me?
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 3: They don't it's the USA.
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's an amazing app It's like really high quality.
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 4: I'm just telling it. They have cocomelon you guys.
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 3: Want have cocomelan amazing it.
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 4: Okay, So they have Appletude Mason.
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 3: To conclude, it seems like the fact that me and
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 3: Lindsay can't even determine whether we agree with you or
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 3: not prese your point.
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, criminally underrated, criminally underrated.
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 2: It is pretty criminal.
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's because again, like it's not as if they
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 1: haven't had a like they only had one album. It's
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 1: not like if let's say, like American Football like just
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 1: released the one album or whatever, like whatever. I get,
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 1: Like I would get why they're underrated, but like, but
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 1: it's because they only had one album. But the fact that,
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 1: like I mean, applesa Cast has maybe eight albums out
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 1: over almost thirty years of being a band, and it's
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 1: just crazy.
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure, albums according to this one.
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they have no shortage. I mean they almost probably
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 1: have the same output as like normal jeen. So if
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 1: you're like a metal fanning you haven't heard normal Gene, like,
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 1: it would be like, how have you not heard normal Gene?
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 1: That's how I feel about applesa Casts, where it's like
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 1: if you're if you claim to be an EMO fanning,
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 1: if you haven't and you haven't heard of Apple Sea Cast, I'd.
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 3: Be like, Okay, all right. Apparently now it's at the
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 3: top of me and Lindsay's list. There you go to
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 3: make sure that I.
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 4: Don't want to get I don't want to get persecuted
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 4: out here.
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 3: Right, Lindsay. To retain our EMO cred, we have to
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 3: listen to.
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 4: Its got to be on the grid tomorrow morning.
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, Lindsay, let's hear the last EMAI hot take.
• 2:05:50
  Speaker 4: The last email hot take. I think that we as
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 4: a society lost something whenever we started leaning more toward
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 4: venues who bathrooms were not biohazards.
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 3: What I'm gonna just keep with it in face right now.
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 4: I have been going down this big rabbit hole on
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 4: CBGB and they had a bathroom where it was literally
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 4: on this raised step and like it was the most
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 4: disgusting thing you've ever heard, and everybody just calm, Like
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 4: people would literally piss on the streets because the bathrooms
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 4: were that bad. And that is kind of where a
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 4: lot of like you don't get to EMO today if
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 4: you don't have CBGB. And I think that there was
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 4: something very lovely and wonderful about using a women's restroom
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 4: at an underground venue where you're you make best friends
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 4: with everybody around you because you're all about to get
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 4: the same disease. Like that was a shared experience.
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 3: Lindsay you were describing like a regular Friday night for
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 3: me in many of you, but like I've ever been
• 2:07:08
  Speaker 3: to nine twenty four, Gilman, you know what I'm talking about.
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 4: I think that is just not common enough. People are
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 4: too prissy about their bathrooms. You gotta you got a
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 4: nut up and get off there. And just like embraces.
• 2:07:23
  Speaker 1: My mom would get off the pot.
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that is not what I expected.
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 4: Don't do that here, No, it doesn't feel but like
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 4: that's where a lot of email concerts happened for me.
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 4: Like I remember seeing like case the day and mailing
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 4: in the sense of disasters and like thinking I might
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 4: die in the pit, but I'm most definitely gonna die
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 4: in this bathroom.
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 3: Okay, I guess I retained my EMAO cred because I
• 2:07:52
  Speaker 3: most of the shows I go to are exactly what
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 3: you're describing, complete biohazards. And it's like, do I risk
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 3: going across the street to the gas station where the
• 2:08:02
  Speaker 3: people right next to it are maybe doing crack, or
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 3: do I risk getting whatever diseases are in this punk
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 3: venue right now? It's a it's a crapshoot.
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 2: You know, we're stuck with a.
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 1: Literal builds character.
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 4: It does like the best Saint Louis venue that for
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 4: like EMA Music was a venue that got shuttered because
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 4: they kept giving underage kids alcohol and they lost their
• 2:08:28
  Speaker 4: liquor license and then they're like, we're just gonna keep
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 4: serving foods anyway. So like it's but the music, like
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 4: the bands that they brought in were really good, and
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 4: the bathrooms that they had were really bad. And the
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 4: shows that we've had ever since the Creamy Crawl closed
• 2:08:45
  Speaker 4: down have just they've not been creepy. It was called
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 4: the Creepy Crawl, and like, so.
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 1: Here's here's where like I would just say, like, Okay, yes, objectively,
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 1: it's bad. We should not be giving underage children alcohol.
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 1: That's so bad. It's bad. And like what if we
• 2:09:13
  Speaker 1: just like keep having like music venues that do that
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 1: but also have great music and we have like these
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 1: lifetime memories like that. There's that too, Yeah, Like like
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 1: is it is it like that bad that we should
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 1: just eliminate that from society for like occasionally an eighteen
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 1: year old getting some like booze.
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm always saying, you know, I think I think
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 6: what you're trying to say, Lindsay is that even if
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 6: it's a really nice venue, we just got to put
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 6: in some like permanent porta potties.
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 2: Those are those are called that are heated to like
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 2: two hundred degrees like son attempt.
• 2:09:56
  Speaker 4: Okay, have you thought about the odors?
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, Well I'm just saying, like you you're the one
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 2: calling for this, and I agree. I agree fully. It's
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 2: so like we're going to we're going to delete the
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 2: nice bathrooms in some of the in some of these venues,
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 2: and we're going to just install a permanent port that's
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 2: going to stay there forever. It's never going to be
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 2: cleaned out. That's how that's how we fix this problem.
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 3: So is the point Lindsay the question is the point
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 3: of your of your take that those kind of bathrooms
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 3: and those kind of venues build character that are adjacent
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 3: to like the emo thank you, Like what's the word
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 3: I'm looking for, Like the emo like culture, the aesthetic.
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's exactly what it is. And I think that
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 4: whenever Colin says that you can just put in that's
• 2:10:45
  Speaker 4: the commercialization.
• 2:10:47
  Speaker 2: That's like playing no, no, we're never going to take
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 2: care of this.
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 3: This that's like to.
• 2:10:57
  Speaker 4: Have the nice venue and the bads like no, no,
• 2:11:01
  Speaker 4: there's anything you can swap that. But at the same time, like.
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 3: I think, I'm with you, the better the better email
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 3: hardcore punk shows I've been to have not been at
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 3: the nicer venues. They have been at the Catalyst in
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 3: Santa Cruz A nine to twenty four Gilman in Berkeley.
• 2:11:18
  Speaker 3: There there's this skate shop I.
• 2:11:21
  Speaker 4: Think it's in Oakland is my other point.
• 2:11:24
  Speaker 3: But go ahead that has like a one style bathroom
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 3: and like a shower in it that is clearly not
• 2:11:31
  Speaker 3: used in Like the metal part of the shower is
• 2:11:34
  Speaker 3: like pulled off of the wall and the toilet papers
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 3: on the ground, and this is just where everyone goes
• 2:11:39
  Speaker 3: to the bathroom.
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and like that's the other thing we need to stop,
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 4: Like we can need to also branch out on what
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 4: we consider a venue, like there used to be like, oh,
• 2:11:49
  Speaker 4: this person is playing down at a laundromat, Jimmy World
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 4: played at in Arby's. We need to be doing that
• 2:11:54
  Speaker 4: more regularly, but not just for TikTok views and those
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 4: also are going to have like Arby's bathroom. Yeah, that's
• 2:12:02
  Speaker 4: gonna be a bad experience. It's consistent.
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 2: Arby's sauce everywhere. I like a big fan. I also
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 2: agree it does feel wrong if you go to a
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 2: nice venue, nice bathrooms especially, and you're listening to what
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 2: was essentially underground.
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 4: Music, if like the soap Dispenser is not actually causing
• 2:12:28
  Speaker 4: you more harm than it's doing good, Like if you
• 2:12:31
  Speaker 4: can like sniff the air and not get a little
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 4: bit high.
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 3: I'm not, no, I'm not.
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Lindsay, it just sounds like you're just like I mean,
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 1: just go sixty miles anywhere in any direction outside of
• 2:12:44
  Speaker 1: Saint Louis and you're gonna be able to find one
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 1: of these bathrooms.
• 2:12:48
  Speaker 3: Lindsay, come visit me and I will take you to
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 3: these bathrooms.
• 2:12:52
  Speaker 4: Yes, I was like a bathroom tour of like everybody's city,
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 4: I promise.
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 2: I'm actually surprised that that's not like a coffee table
• 2:13:02
  Speaker 2: book by some like photographer.
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 1: That should be sitty bathrooms.
• 2:13:09
  Speaker 3: Oh, that absolutely should be a coffee table book. Oh
• 2:13:16
  Speaker 3: my gosh. I bet I bet venues that I go
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 3: to on the regular would be in that book.
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 2: Maybe you should be the one to do it.
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 3: Maybe that's my next project.
• 2:13:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:13:28
  Speaker 1: My favorite one that I've been to calling is Otter Saloon,
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 1: like the men's bathroom. You just open up and you're
• 2:13:33
  Speaker 1: just you're like anyone could see any guy pissing right there.
• 2:13:37
  Speaker 2: It's just it's pretty epic, like literally the entire bargain.
• 2:13:40
  Speaker 1: You can just anybody can just see a guy pissing.
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 2: The other really good one is that place we ate
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 2: breakfast at near your house, your new house. That was stinky.
• 2:13:50
  Speaker 2: That one smells. And I love when they put ice
• 2:13:54
  Speaker 2: inside the urinals.
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 4: Oh what.
• 2:13:58
  Speaker 3: Why?
• 2:13:59
  Speaker 2: This is a super common thing. They'll put ice inside
• 2:14:01
  Speaker 2: the urinals so that like you can't like spit random
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 2: junk into the into like the actual drain first of all,
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 2: and it helps to knock down scent.
• 2:14:10
  Speaker 4: Can I ask a horrible question and you can edit
• 2:14:13
  Speaker 4: this out? Sure? Is it a little satisfying to pee
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 4: on it? Yeah?
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 2: Absolutely the ice. Yeah, you try to see if you
• 2:14:20
  Speaker 2: can melt an entire with.
• 2:14:25
  Speaker 4: I didn't mean my take to be this disgusting, but
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 4: I guess here we are.
• 2:14:29
  Speaker 2: You didn't think that disgusting bathrooms is going to be disgusting.
• 2:14:33
  Speaker 4: I thought it was gonna be a little pleasant.
• 2:14:36
  Speaker 2: You thought it was gonna be romantic and romantic.
• 2:14:40
  Speaker 4: Think about all the love stories that have started out
• 2:14:42
  Speaker 4: because somebody called a girl's number that was written on
• 2:14:45
  Speaker 4: the wall. I'm sure it's a lot. I'm sure a
• 2:14:47
  Speaker 4: lot of love story started out that way.
• 2:14:49
  Speaker 2: I bet you exactly one.
• 2:14:50
  Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know the law is right, but probably
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 1: more arrest than marriages.
• 2:14:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, probably more like.
• 2:14:59
  Speaker 4: S A is.
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 3: Actually, you did say something about like like girls in
• 2:15:07
  Speaker 3: the bathrooms, like making like best friends or whatever, like
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 3: that is still a thing, but it's only in those bathrooms.
• 2:15:14
  Speaker 3: When I go to see a band in San Francisco
• 2:15:18
  Speaker 3: at like the will Turn or Fox Theater or like
• 2:15:20
  Speaker 3: these bigger venues, like that does not happen.
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 4: Girl.
• 2:15:24
  Speaker 3: They're not looking at me, they're not talking to me.
• 2:15:26
  Speaker 3: But when I am in like the shitty bathroom with
• 2:15:28
  Speaker 3: all the graffiti and all the stickers, it's like, oh
• 2:15:30
  Speaker 3: my god, you look so good, or like what's your
• 2:15:32
  Speaker 3: favorite band? Or like how is your not going every time?
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 3: To your point every time? I don't know what the
• 2:15:38
  Speaker 3: deal is. I don't know why it's like that, but
• 2:15:39
  Speaker 3: you are correct.
• 2:15:40
  Speaker 4: I'm telling you like it's it's a it's a very
• 2:15:43
  Speaker 4: lovely experience having to share a horrible bathroom together.
• 2:15:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it.
• 2:15:46
  Speaker 3: It creates community, creates camaraderie, camaraderie. Anyway, Okay, Lindsay, I'm
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 3: on my list of to do is find a show
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 3: that you and I can go to together in California.
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 3: I'll help pay for your plane ticket, can into your
• 2:16:00
  Speaker 3: husband to let you come so that you can experience
• 2:16:02
  Speaker 3: the California punk shitty bathrooms with me and.
• 2:16:12
  Speaker 1: Perfect not really love it well, still, those are incredible takes,
• 2:16:19
  Speaker 1: including our our bathroom takes. I just I love hearing
• 2:16:24
  Speaker 1: what you all think about emo music, and uh, I
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 1: think the thing is like as much as we had
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 1: our own hot takes right now, I think we could
• 2:16:32
  Speaker 1: probably come up with even more hotter takes.
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 2: It should we do? Should we do one more hot take?
• 2:16:38
  Speaker 2: But have no discourse over it. We just have to
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 2: leave it on the table.
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 3: I don't think I have anymore.
• 2:16:43
  Speaker 1: That's a problem, you don't, Yeah, I like, I only
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 1: have like maybe one more, but like it's not really
• 2:16:52
  Speaker 1: even that hot. It's like not good.
• 2:16:54
  Speaker 3: Maybe we table it for another time or some adjacent
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 3: to podcast because this was super fun and I'm I
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 3: don't know, I'm really honored to be talking to all
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 3: of you guys. You have amazing taste in music. You're
• 2:17:08
  Speaker 3: wonderful people. I just feel really lucky to even be
• 2:17:11
  Speaker 3: invited to talk about the stuff with you.
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 1: Guys. We're excited that you wanted to join. Both of
• 2:17:18
  Speaker 1: you wanted to join.
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 1: I love talking emo anytime I get the chance to.
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 1: So thanks so much for sharing your hot takes. I'm
• 2:17:26
  Speaker 1: excited to see what the world thinks about our hot
• 2:17:29
  Speaker 1: takes and if they have even hotter takes them are
• 2:17:32
  Speaker 1: so all right? Thank you, Thank you so much.
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 4: No do