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Does Canada need tariffs on Chinese EV imports? · Kvetch & Release

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Waiting so far. Hey folks, we're back John Leckey here.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: I am eight hundred c k l W. As we
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: always do here on the station, we keep our eye
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: on the prize. Attention is always focused to the EV sector,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: the automotive sector. How could we not here in Windsor, Ontario.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: And let's be honest, the EV sector is becoming a
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: little bit of a political football as we are watching
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: our two main federal party leaders, Justin Trudeau and Pierre
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Pauliev of the Liberals and the Conservatives respectively, sort of
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: trading barbs back and forth about this issue. And we've
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: just recently seen Pierre Pauliev suggest that there should be
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: some triff supplied on the US levy, you know, the
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: sort of the same argument that we've heard from more
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: of his left leaning counterparts in the Liberal Party, but
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: he went one step above and beyond specifically outlying what
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: those tariffs should like look like, how there should be
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: a I guess, a dealing if you could say that
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: with our Chinese automotive competitors, and they're watching massive subsidies
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: flowing to allow for them to really domineer this market.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Joining us right now to discuss as someone who's often
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: here on the program. The president of the Automotive Parts
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Manufacturers Association, Flavio Volpe, joins me right now, Hey, Flavia,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: how you doing.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Hey, great to bey on, John, How are you very well?
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Great to have you here. When
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: I saw Pierre Pauliev announce the demand for tariffs, or
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: rather iterating what he would do if he were to
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: become the prime minister, I went, hey, this actually seems
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: pretty reasonable. I was very impressed. He's been taking a
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: lot of flak for not having a comprehensive auto policy.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: People have said, well, what if he just comes in and,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: you know, gets rid of all the subsidies, What if
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: he destroys the EV industry as it exists right now?
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Whereas what we just saw a couple days ago was
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: actually a pretty nuanced, fair policy that I think would
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: actually benefit our domestic automotive industry. But I want to
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: know what your take is on it, because I'm not
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: in that realm you are.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Thanks John.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: You know what?
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: He did it on a Friday at an announcement at
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: a Stelle coal plant, which I thought was he's either
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: getting good advice or or he's starting to actually personally
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: come around to the stuff, underscoring that the Chinese threat
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: in evs and vehicles in general is the exact same
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: party that has threatened for over a decade our steel industry,
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: our aluminum industry, and other commodities that have a lot
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: less airtime than automotive. What he said was he really
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: thinks and the Conservative government would match the American tariffs
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: on EV's coming from China, as well as all of
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: the other tariffs that were put on. You know, the
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: American package. We always talk about EV's, but it's something
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: called their Section three or one tariff package on China.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: It's three hundred and eighty pages long. He said, we
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: need to match them, and we need to be their partners,
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: and we need to also keep in mind that it's
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: important to have the same lens on the stuff we
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: make cars out of, and so steel and aluminum there
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: as well. I gave him kudos for taking that position,
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: but also reminded him and everybody who was listening that
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: it's a year that we APMA have been out there
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: publicly on this, both in Ottawa and in Washington, d C.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: And then ruffled a few feathers in Mexico City because
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: the Chinese were using Mexico at the staging ground and
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: saying we need to do this, we need to do
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: something material. You know, I really look, I understand we're
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: not naive about the world of politics. Really wish that
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: we could have had all parties, including the government and
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: the opposition, a year ago or six months ago on this.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: You know, every every week we read about the Chinese advance,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: and every week we waste it is an opportunity to
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: push them back that we can't afford to lose.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: You know, I look at this and it's good that
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: they're coming along to it. But I want to shift
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: to the existential question, Flaviio, if you don't mind, which
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: is like, is North American automotive at a I don't
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: even know if inflection point is the right terminology from
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: what I see, and please, by all means correct me
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: if I'm wrong. It feels like we're at a crisis
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: point right now, Like it seems like there is the
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: potential for there not to be a North American auto
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: industry if our governments, if we don't have the buy
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: in of the populace to understand, this could all go
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: the other way. We could I don't want to see,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: you know, a Chrysler or a Ford or any of
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: our domestic automaker has become just, you know, essentially like
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: a widget producer, and we can just decide we can
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: get nuts and bolts from somewhere else.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't want for listeners and windsors, they might
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: hear this differently than listeners across the country that it
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: seems like an automotive we're always talking about an existential threat,
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: and so how can something be an existential threat if
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: the last time we had a threat it was existential. Yeah,
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: And the analogy I always uses in the automotive business
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: where Canada's in the big leagues, this is our franchise
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: and every year you see roster changes. Every year the
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: Yankees win, and the Orioles and the Red Sox and
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: the Rays got to go and re equip. The Blue
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: Jays don't often do that, but every year there's a
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: threat to lose because everybody else who's in the Big
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: leagues wants to win, and so it's always a threat
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: to lose. Because this is the most wanted non natural
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: resource business on the planet. There's more technology, there's more
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: implied sciences, there's more good paying jobs and not amotive
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: than any other sector of the economy anywhere in the world.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: But if you're in the auto business, you're in the
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: big leagues. And if you're not, you're doing something else.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: And this time this threat is against a state adversary.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: You know, usually in the auto business, you're maybe in Ontario,
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: maybe you know the windsor region. We're competing with other
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: states and in the US and in Mexico for investment.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: But the companies that make those investments are competing against
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: other companies. For it is competing against Toyota, competing against Hundai,
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: competing against Rental. These are publicly traded, private sector companies
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: that have their vulnerabilities and have their their strategic advantages.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: Now we're fighting China. China as the country it centrally planned.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: They're dozens of automakers. They centrally plan their production levels,
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: They centrally plan the build up of their supply chains.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: They centrally planned how to get into a position to
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: be able to win our market share by breaking the
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: rules that they know that we follow and by paying
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: people two dollars an hour, by flooding plains to redirect
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: rivers away from a place where they can immediately go
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: on the ground to get lithium or iron ore by
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: putting up two hundred and eighteen gigawatts of cold fired
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: power electricity to do it, you know, next eight or
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: nine times the amount of all the electricity in Ontario
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: is just in the last two years. And so it
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: is an existential threat because we're not playing baseball against
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: the Chinese, you know, we think we're playing baseball and
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: they're going to war.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's the problem, right is, as you said,
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: they're not following the rules that we agree to. But
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: I guess they don't have to follow those rules either.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: How does that make someone like you in your position
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: advocating for all the different parts shops that you do
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: in the automotive industry across you know, the problem from
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: the country. How do you deal with that? I mean,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: I presume I don't know if you've got you know,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Justin and Trudeau's phone number or probably one of at
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: least his staffers who's like close to him, Like, is
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: it just that you pick up the call and go
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: we need more investment, we need more subsidies. Like, how
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: do you compete against a country that is as you said,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: tilting the table far more in their odds. It's like
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: sitting at a poker table and the other guy shows
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: up with a billion dollars and you're sitting there with
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: a wallet with maybe one hundred bucks.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Look, it's a really good question the tact
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: that we've taken over the last ten years or so.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: As we we only talk about the component, the part,
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: the system in the car as context. But what we're
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: what we ask of government, what we imploy government to
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: do publicly and privively, is to think geopolitically. You've got
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: to be able to speak that language. You've got to
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: understand the global balance of power. You've got to understand uh,
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: currency exchange risks, you've got to understand monetary policy. You've
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: got to understand rigual conflict, and you've got to understand
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: international trade agreements and strategies and