Latest / Ridiculous History / CLASSIC: Attack of the Aswang: How the CIA Used Vampires as Weapons of War

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CLASSIC: Attack of the Aswang: How the CIA Used Vampires as Weapons of War · Ridiculous History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Fellow ridiculous historians, Welcome to this week's classic episode NOL.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: We were talking off air a little bit, and this
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: is one of my favorite ones. I went through an
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: obsessive phase with this.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: With what the ass wang? It's ass wong? All right?
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Is a nasty is way funny?
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Miss Jackson, look at this one as a crossover
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: in a way. This is the kind of stuff we
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: talk about on our other podcast that we do with
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: our dear dear Palt Matt Frederick. Stuff they don't want
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: you to know. This is the story of how the
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: CIA used vampires, weaponized psychology strikes again as weapons of war.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: Not like they had a stable of vampires that they
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: would like set free on their enemies, you know, who
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: would feast upon their blood, but just the idea of vampires, right.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: The aswalm is a fascinating legendary creature monster and it's
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: well established in the folklore of the Philippines. As we'll
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: see in this classic when the CIA needed to take
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: care of a group of communist rebels over in the Philippines,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: they got super weird with it. They're really thinking outside
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: the box.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: You are absolutely right, then, myth making at his finest,
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: you know, for the purposes of control fame as it ever.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Was, same as it ever was.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome to the
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: show Ridiculous Historians. Thanks for tuning in. Do you remember
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: how earlier in in a previous episode, we had said
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: we would maybe do more ghost or monsters spooky stories
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: leading into Halloween.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: Wow, yes, yes I do remember that. Then we're a
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: little early for Halloween. But you know what, we're so
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: chock full of monsters that were we just we just
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: got them spelling out of the sides. So we're gonna
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: start early with a story about something called the ass Wang.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Yes, excuse, you're right, You're right, I think either way,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: you are correct. We were talking about a very specific
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: type of monster. And before we get to it, let's
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: introduce one of our favorite monsters, ladies and gentlemen, super
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: producer Casey Pegram Casey, are you okay that I referred
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: to you as a monsters that love it Casey on
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: the Case? So, growing up, were you into monsters? No?
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: I mean I'm clearly a monster of myself because I'm
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: meaning cheese. It's on their show, Unshoptable and Behavior borish.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I hate myself now. Of course I love monsters. Yeah, yeah,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: I was a little frightened of them. I thought they
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: lived under my bed and in my closet. Sure, do
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: you remember that movie The Willies Barely Well, that's a deep,
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: deep kuy. It has young Sean Aston in it, and
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: it's sort of an are You Afraid of the Dark
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: style campfire tale movie where a second anthology, and there
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: was one in particular where there was a really creepy,
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: uh gangly kind of pumpkinhead looking monster with long, skinny
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: fingers who menaced the children at a middle school, and
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: that stuck with me.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Man, Yeah, it's strange when you think of how profoundly
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: some of those things can impact us as children. I
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: was addicted to scary stories to tell in the dark.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: Those covers alone are like nightmare fuel, pure nightmare fuel.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: And the guy's a legit folklorest And one of the
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: things I loved about it was that it was different
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: from the usual fair of monstrosity that we see in
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: the US. I've also wondered, I don't know how much
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: the game's done in this, but I've also wondered and
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: marveled at the sheer variety of goblins ghouls, which is
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: monsters in other parts of the world, like just what
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: we would categorize as vampires. Just that category alone contains
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds of creatures that many people have never
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: heard of, but in their countries of origin, these creatures
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: are taken very, very seriously.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: And one of them is the asswhal. Yeah, the Asswong
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: is sort of a pantheon of monsters, right. It's sort
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: of like in Japanese culture, you've got the yokai, which
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: are just kind of a stand in for any kind
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: of goblin or magical creature or whatever. And here's the thing.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: I wanted to pose this to you before we get
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: too much further. Sure, we're talking about our childhood obsession
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: and fear and you know PTSD associated with monsters, but
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: as a thirty five year old man and Ben, I'm
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: not gonna I'm not gonna spill your age. You're ageless,
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: but I don't think monsters are real anymore. That is
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: not something that keeps me up at night. It's just
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: normal baseline anxiety that keeps me up at night. Now,
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: that's my monster, yeah, but in other countries that's not
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  Speaker 2: quite the case.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: That's absolutely true. Hey, can I have some cheese its?
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: Do you have any thanks? Can you guys tell we're
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: recorded on a Friday afternoon, thanks man.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, that's absolutely true.
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  Speaker 1: These are taken seriously, and the ass wong is just
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: one example. You'll hear other names for it too, like
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: the tick tick or the clean clean or the osawong.
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  Speaker 2: But I think you're right.
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  Speaker 1: Our fears tend to evolve with us, you know what
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, Our monsters grow up with us. That sounds
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: way more cryptic than I intended. And in the Philippines,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: where the asswong originates, they have often been taken very
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  Speaker 1: seriously as like a legitimate, credible physical threat to you
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  Speaker 1: and your loved ones.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of those things where you probably if
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: you grew up in the Philippiness tasty innet but got
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: a good crunch, good trying to do it off the mic, goodbite. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: that's probably good etiquette. But yeah, I mean, you know,
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  Speaker 2: if you grew up in the Philippines, or you know
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: somebody that grew up in the Philippines, chances are you've
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: met somebody that whether they themselves or someone they know,
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: or possibly their grandpa or something, or you know, a
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  Speaker 2: loved one will have claimed with full belief to have
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  Speaker 2: either encountered one of these creatures, possibly been attacked by
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: one of them, or even maybe know someone who met
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: their untimely end at the hands or claws or fangs
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: or you knowes dripping intestines. Yeah, can we go through
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: some of let's do this get yeah? Okay?
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: So, as we mentioned, a swong is kind of an
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: umbrella to her, and in different regions of the Philippines
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  Speaker 1: you will hear different descriptions of what anaswog actually is.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: And despite its different variations, it is probably the most
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: frightening mythical creature in this type of folklore. So one
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  Speaker 1: thing that's always kind of the common thread is that
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: their shapes shit, they can somehow change shape. The big
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: difference is arrive when we ask what shapes they change into.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: So we mentioned that they can have long claws. Do
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: we mention the torso thing yet you.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Alluded to it, Ben, But give us give us the
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: quick and dirty.
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  Speaker 1: So there's the appearance of a person. It's just a
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: torso arms in the head and they're flying, they levitate,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: and they're intestines dripped down under them.
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  Speaker 2: Just kind of dragging like a train, you know, and.
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  Speaker 1: They eat unborn children and toddlers. Usually they want to
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: eat the livers and the hearts.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's even one that I think has some
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: sort of specially adapted tongue that they can use to
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: suck out the fetus from a pregnant woman.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like a like a very evil mosquito, exactly. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: So they're sometimes described as very very thin, they're always
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: described as kind of fast, and some of them make
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: different noises, right, that's going to be importantly.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. There's some that look like pigs who
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: make obviously pig type noises, snorting and you know, grinding
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  Speaker 2: their teeth, and and they're also quite large. Then they're
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: also like werewolf type oswong that are you about like
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  Speaker 2: you would think some of them look more like a
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: regular dog. Some of them look like maybe like a
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: hyena or a jackal of something like that, or just
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: some kind of any kind of like wild kind of
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  Speaker 2: rabid beasts. But then you have the scariest of all
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  Speaker 2: that there's a great connection between this and the way
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: we look at these kind of creatures vampires. You've got
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  Speaker 2: the ones that look mainly like you.
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  Speaker 1: Or I, but they are still out for blood, livers
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  Speaker 1: and hearts, right, because they they can shift into a
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  Speaker 1: human form and then shift I guess into their more
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  Speaker 1: monstrous forms, as legend would have it. As legend would
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  Speaker 1: have it, Yes, very important, very important. They also have
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: these weird, these techniques that are so fascinating since if
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: you read on mythology dot net just a quick overview
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  Speaker 1: of Aswog there, it's apparently common for Aswong to turn
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  Speaker 1: plants into doppelgangers of their victims to hide evidence of
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  Speaker 1: their hunting from locals. That's pretty cool, man, I mean,
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  Speaker 1: that's a pretty I mean it's a dark power, but
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  Speaker 1: it's pretty neat power, right. And so they do it
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  Speaker 1: in two ways. They might make a doppelganger of a
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  Speaker 1: corpse so it looks like the person died without an
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  Speaker 1: Aswog attack. Or they might make a doppelganger of a
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  Speaker 1: living person. When they make one of a living person
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  Speaker 1: a living victim, then the doppelganger goes to that person's home,
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  Speaker 1: they fall ill, and they die. Why are we telling
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: you all of this, Well, we're telling you this because
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: this story comes into play in a very strange and
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: ingenious way. Shortly after World War Two, the Philippine Army
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: is fighting an insurgency led by communist rebels known as
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: the hook balahp In. Pardon my pronunciation, I am not
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  Speaker 1: a Tagolic speaker.
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  Speaker 2: Well, you're not going to try the alternate pronunciation for
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: when they sort of shifted their purposes. That one's even harder.
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  Speaker 2: It's got like an ng there said, he pronounced that
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  Speaker 2: ng on its own.
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  Speaker 1: So this, this army is having the age old series
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: of problems that organized armies have when they run into
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: gorilla forces.
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  Speaker 2: Right there.
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  Speaker 1: They're fighting an enemy that is often invisible, able to
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  Speaker 1: blend in with the local non fighting population, you know
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  Speaker 1: what I mean. And they're like, how do we how
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: do we combat this? We need a method of our own.
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  Speaker 1: We need something we could do that will squash this rebellion,
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  Speaker 1: and it may need to be an unconventional method because
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: this also just for the background here, these who are
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: also called hucks Huk, they're fighting against the status quo,
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  Speaker 1: the wealthy Filipinos who had collaborated with Japanese invaders.
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  Speaker 2: Right because originally they were part of the team. Right
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  Speaker 2: during World War two, when the Philippines were leaked up
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: with the US fighting against the Japanese. This group was
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: fighting the good fight, right and then after the end
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  Speaker 2: of the war they started they kind of became installed
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: as the de facto militia or military of the communist government.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: Right right right, because it's you can see how they
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: feel very short changed in this at this position because
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: the collaborators with the Japanese have grabbed a ton of
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: land afterwards, and they own a bunch of resources, and
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: the inequality of the country, which was already very extreme,
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  Speaker 1: is just going to continue as though nothing has changed.
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  Speaker 1: So of course they want a rebellion. Of course they
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: want a different government.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: And just to try my hand at butchering and pronunciation,
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: they did change the name after this switcheroo happened to
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: huckbo in Baion Lebon Sa Hopon that was also known
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: as the anti Japanese Army.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: That was pretty good, man, I thought that was pretty good.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: But not only were they against the Japanese army, they
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: ultimately ended up becoming against the Filipino government because they
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: believe that the President Manuel Roxis was a sympathizer with
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: or a collaborator I guess with what the Japanese I'm
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: confused about that.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that he was collaborating with them to enrich himself
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: and then also, you know, in his capitalism, So that's
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: obviously not gonna fly with these guys. But there's another
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: another player enters.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: The game, Yeah, the big one, because let's we forget
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: the US is involved and has an interest here, and
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: they want to get those those huckbo's literally running for
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: the hills. So inter Air Force Brigadier General Edward G.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: I read this originally, and I thought it said Landslide,
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: which would have been an awesome last name for in general,
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: but unfortunately it is Lansdale. And he is a huge
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: proponent of a little something called SIOPS. Ben bless us
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: with your military history acumen. What's siops? Think?
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Everybody knows? Psychological operations also known as psychological warfare. This
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: includes everything from propaganda given to soldiers over the radio
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: to things like ghost armies that we've mentioned before.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like in Vietnam, the US military used the sounds
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: recorded sounds of like wailing damned ancestors of the Vietcong
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: and it works. So I would say SIOPS is sort
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: of the art of freaking out your enemy.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I think that's a good way to describe.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: It's intimidation. And Lansdale is very, very familiar with this.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: There's a great book by an author named Max Boot
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: called The Road Not Taken Edward Lansdale in the American
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: Track in Vietnam, which touches on some of Lansdale's activities.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Lensdale is no stranger to siops. He's he's a huge
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: fan of psychological warfare, and he has he has chops,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: he has some uh, he has some things on his
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: resume that are unethical but impressive. He orchestrates a campaign
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: in Vietnam that makes nearly a million refugees flee the
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: country because he hired a soothsayer to predict good fortune
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: for South Vietnam and bad luck for the North.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, so not firing a shot, just getting into people's heads.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know. It reminds me of there's anpisode
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: of Money Python where it's like the most dangerous joke
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: in the world and they use it against their enemies
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: and only every like major commander can only hold like
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: one word of the joke at a time, because if
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: they themselves read it in one go, they would be
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: stricken mad or whatever. So they hold it up for
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: the enemy to see, and you see, it takes some
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: kind of a minute have to recognize what it is,
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: and then they all just laugh themselves to death. Uh,
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: you know, obviously kind of a silly satirical version, but
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: sort of describing this phenomenon that we're talking about here
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: using people's thoughts and attitudes and preconceived ideas against them.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Yes, and we have a quote from Lansdale himself at
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: something called the Asswongproject dot com siwar in the Philippines,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: Asswong and the CIA. So this is before his Vietnam stuff,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: by the way. So Lansdale says, a combat sy war
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: squad was brought in to the Philippines. It planted stories
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: among town residents of an Asswong living on the hills
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: where the Hucks were based. So they spread these They
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: spread these rumors, and then two nights later, after giving
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: the stories time to sort of percolate up to the Hucks,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: the ambushers silently snatched the last man of a patrol
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: and they killed him. They punctured his neck with two
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: holes as if a vampire bit him, and they hung
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: his body up by the heels to exsanguinate him, to
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: drain them of all blood. And then they took the
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: corpse and they dragged it back to the trail where
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: the guy would have disappeared, and he just plopped his
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: body out there. So what happened next, Well, they like
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: littered these corpses, you know, all around the area. And
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: it did not go over well with the with the
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: invading forces right or the you know, attempting to overthrow
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: forces right right, the communist rebel groups they returned, they
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: were trying to look for their comrade. And can you
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: imagine how frightening that is? Like, that's the thing. It
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: may sound silly for people to be frightened of a
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: mythological monster, right, but imagine you work with someone, like
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: think of all your coworkers. You work with someone, You
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: go out to a party with them, they disappear, You
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: come back the next day and you find them with
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: bipe marks and no blood. That's frightening. I might fall
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: for that. I don't know, what do you think, nol.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, tensions are already running high in
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: this in this situation of this like guerrilla warfare. Yeah,
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: here's the here's the kicker though. This was syops on
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: the surface, but syops typically doesn't involve war crimes because
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: you're not supposed to. You know, they're capturing these people
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: and then they're basically torturing and murdering them. Yeah, you know,
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: they're They're not like putting them in pow camps. They
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: are using them, using their flesh and blood as some
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: kind of crazy horror show to freak out their comrades.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: And that brings us to an interesting question here because
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: you know, it's this event is not something that happened
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: across the Philippines for you know, years and years. It
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: was this single operation. But they may not have been
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: actually scared of NEAs Swung at all. They may have
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: just been scared of getting kidnapped and used as you know,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: psychological torture for their compatriots. And a HOK squadron at
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: this time was about one hundred to three hundred soldiers,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: and we don't know whether they were actually scared of
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: of a fictional creature or whether they were scared of
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: the very real and very ruthless as you mentioned Cia, right, Yeah.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: He had another trick that he liked to use. Lansdale
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: called the eye of God. And this is much similar
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: to the ghost tape kind of stuff we will hear
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: about in Vietnam, where they basically I don't know if
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: they used a spooky voice over the loudspeakers, but they
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: were like calling out the names of prominent huck you know,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: the commanders and threatening them with certain death and yeah,
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, can't you picture it being kind of scooby
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: doode out like that. Oh, get to the best part though,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, So adding insult to injury, they would
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: also creep into their camp and paint these spooky eyes
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: on the tent or wherever the people were sleeping the house.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: I guess they had little huts. This is like they
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: were in their villages, I guess.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: For some reason, that seems even creepier to me, to
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: even creepier than hearing a weird noise, waking up and
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: finding this non consensual artwork, you know what I mean.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: But this didn't like, you know, clear the Hucks out
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: overnight or anything. I mean it you know, took about
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: four years before Lewis Tarouk, who had been the leader
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: of this organization for quite some time, actually surrendered and
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: accepted a prison sentence. So you know. I mean, it's
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: really interesting to read about this stuff, and it's certainly
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: a fascinating type of warfare. That author you mentioned earlier,
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Max Boot the story says that this tactic was actually
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: considered a war crime because they were killing these Filipino
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: soldiers deliberately instead of you know, capturing them as enemy combatants.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: And then of course they were mutilating their corpses too,
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: so not a good look, but I guess effective.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know, what do you think, mat Yeah, I mean,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: definitely not a good look, but certainly effective. And the CIA,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: so we clarify here, the CIA is telling the Filipino
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: soldiers in the army to attack the communist rebels and
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: use these tactics, and they do work. I mean, by
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: the fifties, I think, as we mentioned, the Hucks are
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: in serious decline and Lansdale will go on to do
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: more of this sort of stuff, especially in Vietnam. As
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: we mentioned before, the type of techniques he applied were
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: also sometimes called black combat. He also did another psy op.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: We should mention he would have different messages broadcast. Noel,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: you had mentioned earlier, the messages warning rebel leaders and
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: so on, but they would also fly planes very low
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: overhead and broadcast messages to make the rebels believe spies
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: were in their midst and they couldn't trust one another.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: So eventually, nineteen fifty four, the rebels surrender, and there's
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: no argument about it. These tactics were very useful to
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Lansdale and to the army of the Philippines. The question
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: that we have to ask ourselves is at what price victory?
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: It's not right to desecrate corpses.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: No, no, it's definitely not. And you know, I think
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: our boy Lansdale would go on to use slightly less
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: brutal techniques later in his career, but I guess this
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: was just kind of a different time.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: He's also for anybody who wants a little bit of
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: a lost treasure story. He also shows up in the
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: old legend of Yamashita's Go, which is this horde of
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: treasure that was stolen by the Japanese forces during World
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: War Two and hidden somewhere in the Philippines, And according
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: to the story, it's still there and you can go
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: search for it yourself, as many other treasure hunters have
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: tried over the past few decades. We should mention the
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: existence of this treasure is largely not taken seriously by
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: a lot of experts, but of course, who doesn't want
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: to find it. You can read more about that by
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: checking out work of the author's sterling Seagrave, who claims
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: the gold was secretly seized by the US government after
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: the location was discovered by interrogating and torturing Yamashita's driver,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: a major Kojima Kashi. And then here's where Lansdale comes in.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Apparently he supervised the torture fun allegedly.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, he's a hardened mofo. Sure. I mean if
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: he's hanging up dudes by their toes and stabbing him
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: in the side of the neck and draining their blood
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: and for the purposes of spooking some enemy combatants, and
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: then this guy could probably do just about anything. How many.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: I guess folkloric believes or mythological monsters do you think
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: people honestly believe in in twenty eighteen, because I've heard
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: in Iceland that people still believe in uh, fairies or no, sure,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: trolls maybe? Yeah, maybe trolls. Yeah, I don't know.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know, man, Like I I want to believe.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: You're very molder about that. Uh yeah, No, I'm just
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: moldy and sad and beaten down by life. Ben. But no, man,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know who are we to say?
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Who are we to say that's that's a good question.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: And you know what that makes me think of? You know,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: the people who are to say, oh, that was awkward.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Let's do some listener mail.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: Do it well? Dominic Allen has this to say, Hello, Jents,
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: just listen to your episode on the naming of California,
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: and you asked us to tell you if we ever
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: have seen a griffin, I have seen part of one.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: Would rather own part of one. Maybe this ties in
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: beautifully with today's episode two. He's asked a question, what
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: mythological creatures do you believe in? Dominic says he owns one.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: I shouldn't dilly dally and explain myself. In the thirteen hundreds,
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: there was a man called John manvel Or was there
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: who wrote a book called the Travels of Sir John
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: manvel Or did he? In this travel book, he visits
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: Asia and talks about the weird and wonderful people and
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: creatures that live there, one of them being a griffiin
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: this is also one of the more boring creatures he
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: talks about. He states that griffins are from a country
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: called Bakaria and had talons so long this is a quote,
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: so long and so large, on great upon his feet,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: as though they were horns of great oxen, or of bugles,
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: or of kine, so that men make cups of them
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: to drink of. So what I meant was I have
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: a drinking horn which is made from the supposed claw
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: of a griffin. I interjected with that supposed at least
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: that's what I tell people. I'm part of a fourteenth
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: century living history group in England and it is a
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: great conversation piece, as drinking horns weren't as popular in
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: that time, but a griffin claw is a fascinating thing.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: The travels of Sir John Manvil could be a good
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: podcast topic. I agree the people in the book are
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: pretty ridiculous. Thanks for the podcast, look forward to more
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: as they come. Always be ridiculous. Not going to be
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: a problem, Dominic, No, we literally are contractually obligated kid
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: doing this show, like we get in trouble if we don't.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: But also that's so amazing. This really inspires me to
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: ask more questions on the show. Dominic. Thank you for
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: also bonus points. If you can send us a picture, man,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we'd love that. And I assume that you're
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: not doing the fourteenth century living history thing all the time,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: just because you did send us an email. This arrived
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: via email, not via pigeon or parchment or a pigeon
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: carrying parchment, But that's awesome. I would love to see
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: a picture of this drinking horn. And I'm completely on
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: board with the travels of Sir Manville. Our next listener
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: mail is one that uh, I think both of us
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: are really gonna dig. It is from Darren T and
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: it's titled hangus the Monkey. Hi, says Darren. I listened
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: from the start, but it's my first time writing. I've
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: just heard your recent podcast on the Heartlepool Monkey. I
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: live in Thornaby on Teas, ten miles up the road
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: from Hartlepool, Heartlepool. He notes his tea side, not Tyne side,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: and he goes on to say I was taught about
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: this as a lesson on propaganda and racism in primary school,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: showing how people with nothing to go on but propaganda
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: about how all Frenchmen are short, wild and hairy can
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: lead to this stuff. Whether this is a true story
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: or not, it works as a great teaching tool, although
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: I personally don't believe it is true. I think it
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: was just an excuse for mocking nickname for people from
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: the area.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Here's the part.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: You're like nol like Mackhams, which are people from Sunderland,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: and Smoggies, which are people from Middlesbrough. But it's a
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: bit of fun. Thanks for the hours of entertainment, Darren. Ps.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: You pronounced all the time side towns and cities correctly.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Casey. Can we get a Hallelujah clip? Perfect?
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: So I gotta say, Darren, thank you for writing. I
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: am loving these very specific derogatory nicknames. Mackhams, Smoggies. Does
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: every town in England have one of these? We don't
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: have anything like that for Atlanta. I guess people just
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: say redneck, right it's true. Well, maybe if you're listening
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: you can suggest a cool mocking nickname for people from Atlanta.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: I will say this about that episode. I do think
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: we kind of glossed over the fact that this was
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: an interesting teachable moment about racism and othering and this
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: idea that this monkey supposedly was, you know, immediately identified
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: as being a Frenchman, and that was how Frenchmen were
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: depicted in these political cartoons of the time. So you know,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: I think there's a something to be said about that.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: And I don't know if we mentioned this in the
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: episode either, but there is actually a play about the
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: Harleypool Monkey. I thought we did. I think we did,
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: but if we didn't describe it, it's so cool to
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: look at because it's this really amazing puppetry. I don't
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: know if you're familiar with the play Warhorse, that's got
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: this amazing, like multi layered puppetry sculpture kind of stuff,
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: and that's what the Harleypool Monkey play is about. And
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: it does kind of take a little liberty and talk
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: more about that, like the way we treat immigrants and
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: things like that. So it's a there's kind of a
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: twofold story there.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: And thank you again to Dominic and Darren for writing in.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Thank you fellow ridiculous historians for giving us a list
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: in to day. While we're thanking people, let's go ahead
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: and thank our super producer, Casey Pegram.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: Thanks also to our research associates Eves Jeff Cod who
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: helped us out with this one, and also Christopher Hasiotis
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: who continues to be a mensch and we love him dearly.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: I think we might actually have him on. We might
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: have him on for an episode. Yes, Yes, he's coming back.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: It's two. We're over overdue. Thanks to Alex Williams who
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: composed our theme.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: And thanks to thanks to Jonathan Strickland ak the Quizzor
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: for not showing up on this episode.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: I have a feeling we haven't seen the last of him.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: I hear that laugh in the distance and I don't
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: think it's Casey piping it through the headphones.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: It haunts me at night man.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: Yes, and speaking of haunting, we want to hear some
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: of your favorite ridiculous historical events involving the supernatural or
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: allegations thereof. You can tell us about these on Instagram, Facebook,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: and Twitter, and we particularly like to give a shout
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: out to our Ridiculous Historians Facebook page. It's one of
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: the classies joints on the Internet.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And in one last little plug, Ben and I
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: recently appeared on a three part episode of Behind the Bastards,
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: which is a really, really amazing show out of our
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: La Wing hosted by Robert Evans, who is just a
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: cracker jack writer and researcher. And he was kind enough
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: slash sadistic enough to have you and I on for
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: a four hour podcast marathon about the infamous Alex Jones.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a it's a great listen. Robert's a great guy.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: It is not for children. Now, there is strong language.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you want to hear me and Ben Effan
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: and Jeffin, that's the place to do it.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: And mature themes. But that was a good shot. Yeah,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: and follow behind the bastards. If you like us, you're
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: gonna really dig that show.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: It's true and all three parts of that trifecta are out. Now.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: It's a lot. It's a real commitment. It's a road trip.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: But yeah, that's that's it.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: Man.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: Let's uh, let's try to continue our habit of not
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: desecrating corpses to win wars.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not digging up pope corpses to make points. I
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: don't know. All right, Well, happy Halloween, y'all. Yeah, not
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: even it's Halloween all year. Send us Jesus. For more
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio, app, Apple podcasts, or
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.