Latest / Deep Tech Germany – AI, Robotics & Frontier Innovation by Startuprad.io™ / Scaling a Cybersecurity Startup: Link11's Lessons
Transcript
- WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:19.280 <v Music> 00:00:20.267 --> 00:00:25.767 <v Speaker0>Hello and welcome, everybody. Welcome back to our second part of my interview 00:00:25.767 --> 00:00:28.827 <v Speaker0>with Jens, CEO of Link 11. 00:00:29.487 --> 00:00:33.707 <v Speaker0>Welcome to startupraday.io, your startup podcast from Germany, 00:00:33.827 --> 00:00:37.827 <v Speaker0>Austria and Switzerland. You go to podcast for startup tech and innovation insights. 00:00:38.127 --> 00:00:42.847 <v Speaker0>We continue our interview with Jens Philipp Jung, CEO of Link 11, 00:00:43.067 --> 00:00:50.247 <v Speaker0>a leader in DDoS protection and one of the top 40 under 40 by German periodical 00:00:50.247 --> 00:00:52.927 <v Speaker0>capital business periodical, I would say. 00:00:53.127 --> 00:00:57.147 <v Speaker0>If you'd ever wonder how to scale a tech business or navigate tech challenges 00:00:57.147 --> 00:01:02.127 <v Speaker0>of cybersecurity in today's rapidly evolving market, this episode is for you. 00:01:02.407 --> 00:01:06.507 <v Speaker0>Let's dive into Jens' entrepreneurial journey, leadership lessons and innovations 00:01:06.507 --> 00:01:07.907 <v Speaker0>in the cybersecurity space. 00:01:08.007 --> 00:01:13.367 <v Speaker0>And please keep in mind, this is part two, so you should also listen to part 00:01:13.367 --> 00:01:18.447 <v Speaker0>one, Part one and part two are supported by our enabler, Hessen Trade & Invest 00:01:18.447 --> 00:01:20.187 <v Speaker0>and the Enterprise Europe Network. 00:01:20.407 --> 00:01:25.827 <v Speaker0>You can learn more down here in the show notes. Jens, that's it. Welcome back. 00:01:26.647 --> 00:01:28.347 <v Speaker1>Hi, Jörn. Very nice to be back. 00:01:28.927 --> 00:01:32.927 <v Speaker0>Totally my pleasure. We may add for our audience that even for us, 00:01:33.047 --> 00:01:33.967 <v Speaker0>it's a second recording. 00:01:33.967 --> 00:01:40.067 <v Speaker0>So we had approximately 24 hours in between, but we keep going with our content 00:01:40.067 --> 00:01:47.647 <v Speaker0>here. We talked last about cybersecurity and your look on things. 00:01:47.807 --> 00:01:53.807 <v Speaker0>And now I would like to shift a little bit more on the focus of risk of your company. 00:01:54.067 --> 00:01:58.547 <v Speaker0>Running a tech company like Link11 must come with a fair share of risk. 00:01:58.747 --> 00:02:04.147 <v Speaker0>How do you manage and mitigate those risks, both in terms of strategy and cybersecurity? 00:02:06.007 --> 00:02:10.587 <v Speaker1>Yeah, I mean, especially also in the past 24 hours in the cybersecurity space, 00:02:10.607 --> 00:02:16.967 <v Speaker1>a lot happened because we basically see every hour many, many attacks, 00:02:17.147 --> 00:02:22.067 <v Speaker1>being it on our customers, but also on us as a company, because we are also 00:02:22.067 --> 00:02:24.267 <v Speaker1>some kind of high quality target, to say so. 00:02:25.087 --> 00:02:30.747 <v Speaker1>And therefore, it's very important to manage the cybersecurity risks and also 00:02:30.747 --> 00:02:33.207 <v Speaker1>obviously from a business strategic standpoint. 00:02:33.207 --> 00:02:40.487 <v Speaker1>And as an organization, I mean, we also some kind still of some kind of startup 00:02:40.487 --> 00:02:43.287 <v Speaker1>culture and some kind of startup atmosphere. 00:02:43.287 --> 00:02:49.447 <v Speaker1>And while you are very young as an organization, you think very late towards 00:02:49.447 --> 00:02:51.347 <v Speaker1>risk, right? I mean, you want to build something. 00:02:52.107 --> 00:02:56.167 <v Speaker1>You are the pioneers and you want to create something. 00:02:56.307 --> 00:03:01.487 <v Speaker1>So risk is something which come a little bit later as soon as the company gets more mature. 00:03:02.507 --> 00:03:08.327 <v Speaker1>But what I see as a very positive involvement currently is that more and more 00:03:08.327 --> 00:03:13.247 <v Speaker1>requirement in terms of risk management systems, especially in the cyberspace. 00:03:13.407 --> 00:03:19.387 <v Speaker1>So, for example, the ISO framework, what gets more and more famous and more 00:03:19.387 --> 00:03:20.747 <v Speaker1>and more required from the market. 00:03:20.747 --> 00:03:26.767 <v Speaker1>And such frameworks help generally all companies, but also obviously us in terms 00:03:26.767 --> 00:03:30.227 <v Speaker1>of risk management, risk mapping and being it from strategy risk, 00:03:30.427 --> 00:03:33.427 <v Speaker1>from cyber security risks and business continuity risks. 00:03:34.167 --> 00:03:39.687 <v Speaker1>We as Sling 11, we not only have the ISO framework, which is like already a 00:03:39.687 --> 00:03:42.687 <v Speaker1>lot of work and all who went through this knows that. 00:03:42.987 --> 00:03:48.747 <v Speaker1>A lot of paperwork, which also typically is not loved too much from startups 00:03:48.747 --> 00:03:51.347 <v Speaker1>and in the startup and scale-up phase. 00:03:52.007 --> 00:03:56.727 <v Speaker1>We have also done like cybersecurity frameworks like PCI DSS, 00:03:56.867 --> 00:04:00.147 <v Speaker1>which is a framework introduced by the payment card industry. 00:04:00.427 --> 00:04:04.087 <v Speaker1>This is where PCI stands for. or another one, SOC 2, 00:04:05.026 --> 00:04:10.706 <v Speaker1>Which is like a very US-centric framework, but gets more and more important in the European sector. 00:04:11.546 --> 00:04:17.886 <v Speaker1>And these frameworks help us natively to be more secure and also to risk or 00:04:17.886 --> 00:04:20.206 <v Speaker1>also to manage our risks much better. 00:04:20.346 --> 00:04:26.346 <v Speaker1>But even before such frameworks, I mean, we always think about what if scenarios, 00:04:27.066 --> 00:04:32.746 <v Speaker1>what could happen and create predefined plans and also often fire drills and 00:04:32.746 --> 00:04:38.806 <v Speaker1>tabletop exercises because we operate a 24-7 network and something could always fail. 00:04:39.046 --> 00:04:44.206 <v Speaker1>So we always think about, okay, what are redundancy concepts in our infrastructure? 00:04:45.166 --> 00:04:50.686 <v Speaker1>What are the playbooks and the fire drills that we need to perform if something breaks? 00:04:51.946 --> 00:04:56.126 <v Speaker0>Actually, I'll be linking the cyber map of Kapersky. 00:04:56.486 --> 00:05:01.946 <v Speaker0>This gives you a real-time view of attacks and only the time you've been talking. 00:05:01.946 --> 00:05:07.646 <v Speaker0>I have witnesses here on the live map, more than a quarter of a million attacks. 00:05:07.946 --> 00:05:15.506 <v Speaker0>So just to give you a sense of that here, could you share an example when you 00:05:15.506 --> 00:05:18.606 <v Speaker0>took a risk in the business that ultimately paid off, 00:05:18.906 --> 00:05:24.506 <v Speaker0>meaning less in terms of cybersecurity and more in terms of like strategy projects? 00:05:26.026 --> 00:05:33.986 <v Speaker1>Yes. I mean, two big risks what we have taken in the past was our add-on acquisitions. 00:05:34.206 --> 00:05:38.266 <v Speaker1>I mean, S-Link 11, we had a strategy to grow organically, but also at a later 00:05:38.266 --> 00:05:39.946 <v Speaker1>stage to acquire other companies. 00:05:40.266 --> 00:05:45.446 <v Speaker1>And these acquisitions of other companies, obviously, you have to add due diligence 00:05:45.446 --> 00:05:52.806 <v Speaker1>and you try to find out what is great and where are some red flags in this company. But 00:05:53.891 --> 00:05:59.811 <v Speaker1>Every due diligence report has its limitations and there are always things which are uncertain. 00:06:01.051 --> 00:06:04.831 <v Speaker1>You don't know how sticky is the customer base after the migration. 00:06:05.251 --> 00:06:14.031 <v Speaker1>You also only have partially insights into the real production code and various other things. 00:06:14.471 --> 00:06:20.691 <v Speaker1>You also don't know or you only have partially insights about what is the stickiness 00:06:20.691 --> 00:06:24.331 <v Speaker1>of the people. Do all the key people stay on board? 00:06:25.091 --> 00:06:30.471 <v Speaker1>And this is always a kind of big risk because, I mean, making these acquisitions, 00:06:30.831 --> 00:06:35.771 <v Speaker1>paying many millions for being the owner of the company. 00:06:36.411 --> 00:06:40.231 <v Speaker1>Therefore, also the amount you invest is a huge amount. 00:06:40.431 --> 00:06:44.571 <v Speaker1>And this is always kind of risky situation. 00:06:44.571 --> 00:06:49.091 <v Speaker1>And how to mitigate this is that, well, well-defined plans, what-if scenarios, 00:06:49.471 --> 00:06:53.391 <v Speaker1>trying to understand the business as good as possible, trying to anticipate 00:06:53.391 --> 00:06:57.011 <v Speaker1>potential risk, potential issues as good as possible, 00:06:59.311 --> 00:07:03.351 <v Speaker1>Creating mitigation plans, and also in terms of risk mapping, 00:07:03.531 --> 00:07:10.711 <v Speaker1>understand, okay, if certain risk actually will be materialized, 00:07:10.711 --> 00:07:12.931 <v Speaker1>which we all don't hope, right? 00:07:13.151 --> 00:07:18.971 <v Speaker1>What is the actual impact, right? Is it like from a criticality scale? How serious is it? 00:07:19.611 --> 00:07:25.591 <v Speaker1>And this helps you then to also get a good feeling 00:07:26.611 --> 00:07:32.151 <v Speaker1>from making such transactions and at the end also signing the deals because 00:07:32.151 --> 00:07:36.431 <v Speaker1>you should never sign a deal if you have a bad feeling. 00:07:37.462 --> 00:07:47.722 <v Speaker0>Mm-hmm. Everybody who does not think that a takeover could be a destroyer of value or a company, 00:07:47.902 --> 00:07:52.542 <v Speaker0>they should look into some prominent examples like AOL, Time Warner. 00:07:53.502 --> 00:07:59.802 <v Speaker0>I do believe you, after some time looking into that, you do get a sense of how 00:07:59.802 --> 00:08:01.462 <v Speaker0>this could take down two companies. 00:08:02.362 --> 00:08:06.442 <v Speaker0>Talked about companies and takeovers here. What is your approach to competition 00:08:06.442 --> 00:08:08.922 <v Speaker0>in the tech space? How do you view competitors? 00:08:09.242 --> 00:08:12.602 <v Speaker0>And what strategies do you employ to stay competitive? 00:08:13.642 --> 00:08:18.722 <v Speaker1>Tech is generally speaking a wonderful sector. And why is it so wonderful is 00:08:18.722 --> 00:08:27.002 <v Speaker1>because the biggest advantage in the tech sector is that size doesn't always matter. 00:08:27.002 --> 00:08:32.902 <v Speaker1>Very often you have small innovative teams which are working like in a speedboat 00:08:32.902 --> 00:08:38.622 <v Speaker1>approach, which can develop groundbreaking solutions, which will beat all the incumbents. 00:08:39.342 --> 00:08:44.542 <v Speaker1>So this is also kind of our initial start. 00:08:44.722 --> 00:08:48.962 <v Speaker1>When we came into the market, I mean, we were a team of basically two people. 00:08:49.122 --> 00:08:55.282 <v Speaker1>It was Carsten and myself. and with the great skills of Carsten it was able 00:08:55.282 --> 00:09:00.082 <v Speaker1>to develop a solution, a technical solution and software which was better than 00:09:00.082 --> 00:09:02.442 <v Speaker1>everything else that was on the market. 00:09:03.022 --> 00:09:06.962 <v Speaker1>And this is a great advantage because if you think in other industries, 00:09:07.462 --> 00:09:11.602 <v Speaker1>imagine you want to open a furniture store, right? 00:09:12.322 --> 00:09:16.662 <v Speaker1>There are so many entries, various entries to get into this market. 00:09:16.662 --> 00:09:22.822 <v Speaker1>You need a plot, you need many of these maybe distributed network um multiple 00:09:22.822 --> 00:09:26.742 <v Speaker1>locations it's very very difficult but in tech i mean basically you can you can 00:09:27.721 --> 00:09:30.961 <v Speaker1>Create a company by yourself and now even easier with 00:09:30.961 --> 00:09:37.741 <v Speaker1>all the ai tools so generally speaking great advantage is that even it's a fast-moving 00:09:37.741 --> 00:09:44.301 <v Speaker1>environment you are able as a very small and capable team to develop groundbreaking 00:09:44.301 --> 00:09:49.061 <v Speaker1>solution and beat the incumbents and if you 00:09:50.141 --> 00:09:55.541 <v Speaker1>And this is not only right at the end what we say but also actually the feedback 00:09:55.541 --> 00:09:57.941 <v Speaker1>what we get from our customers and even the analysts. 00:09:58.901 --> 00:10:03.941 <v Speaker1>So a couple of years ago, for example, we had the benchmark study from Forrester 00:10:03.941 --> 00:10:08.401 <v Speaker1>Research who has tested various solutions in our area. 00:10:08.401 --> 00:10:15.041 <v Speaker1>And it turned out that Ling 11 is not only the one with the fastest mitigation 00:10:15.041 --> 00:10:19.341 <v Speaker1>of Jesus attacks, but only the one with the best wrestlers when it comes to 00:10:19.341 --> 00:10:20.681 <v Speaker1>overall mitigation capabilities. 00:10:21.021 --> 00:10:26.141 <v Speaker1>And this was basically a shift with a very small development team compared to our competition. 00:10:26.741 --> 00:10:31.561 <v Speaker0>I was wondering for our audience, how would you approach competition in your 00:10:31.561 --> 00:10:34.721 <v Speaker0>industry? Drop your thoughts below and let's discuss. 00:10:35.501 --> 00:10:42.121 <v Speaker0>Jens, how does Link 11 integrate AI and machine learning into its cybersecurity solution? 00:10:42.281 --> 00:10:46.581 <v Speaker0>And what impact does it have it on your competitive effectiveness? 00:10:46.581 --> 00:10:49.541 <v Speaker0>Because I kind of get the feel. 00:10:51.569 --> 00:10:59.109 <v Speaker0>Sometime down the road, not true, how long it'll take, you'll have AIs looking for vulnerabilities, 00:10:59.569 --> 00:11:04.309 <v Speaker0>exploiting those vulnerabilities, and on the other side, having AIs trying to 00:11:04.309 --> 00:11:07.169 <v Speaker0>act as fast as possible to block those vulnerabilities. 00:11:07.529 --> 00:11:11.129 <v Speaker0>We're not there yet, but we can both see it, right? 00:11:11.429 --> 00:11:16.689 <v Speaker1>Oh, it's actually in the very near future. we already see like early attacks 00:11:16.689 --> 00:11:22.469 <v Speaker1>designed and generated by AI and imagine like deep fake for example or phishing 00:11:22.469 --> 00:11:28.649 <v Speaker1>attacks or calling fake attacks. They are all AI generated. 00:11:28.909 --> 00:11:32.929 <v Speaker1>So this is like in the very, very new future. On the same side, 00:11:33.109 --> 00:11:37.829 <v Speaker1>luckily or on the good side, we are already using AI for quite a long time. 00:11:38.389 --> 00:11:48.249 <v Speaker1>There is a fun story behind that because Carsten who is like an IT informatic 00:11:48.249 --> 00:11:50.189 <v Speaker1>student and also mathematics student, 00:11:50.429 --> 00:11:54.249 <v Speaker1>he has a great passion for machine learning, algorithms and AI and all of that. 00:11:55.689 --> 00:12:02.389 <v Speaker1>Because we had the issue that DDoS attacks could come on every day and night, 00:12:03.469 --> 00:12:08.889 <v Speaker1>Carsten has developed a solution which is capable to detect and mitigate these attacks by themselves. 00:12:09.269 --> 00:12:11.629 <v Speaker1>And the reason for it was because he wants to sleep in the night. 00:12:12.369 --> 00:12:16.949 <v Speaker1>And this was then the fact, and this is quite a funny story, right? 00:12:17.009 --> 00:12:21.469 <v Speaker1>Because we did not develop machine learning in AI or we did not leverage machine 00:12:21.469 --> 00:12:24.669 <v Speaker1>learning in AI because it's fancy. It's cool. 00:12:24.869 --> 00:12:32.389 <v Speaker1>Let's get higher revenues or better multiples and fundraising or fancy marketing materials. 00:12:32.549 --> 00:12:37.209 <v Speaker1>It was basically because the developer of the solution wants to sleep into the 00:12:37.209 --> 00:12:42.689 <v Speaker1>night and not get it waked up by DDoS attacks, which he manually need to adjust and mitigate. 00:12:43.764 --> 00:12:50.004 <v Speaker1>And, yeah, these algorithms are still in place and mitigating thousands of attacks 00:12:50.004 --> 00:12:53.264 <v Speaker1>every day, fully automatic and protecting. 00:12:54.184 --> 00:12:56.304 <v Speaker1>I mean, at the beginning, it just protected our infrastructure. 00:12:56.544 --> 00:13:00.064 <v Speaker1>And now these algorithms are protecting millions of web assets every single day. 00:13:00.844 --> 00:13:08.144 <v Speaker0>Are you scared that somebody would be able to find a hole in your algorithms? 00:13:08.924 --> 00:13:14.784 <v Speaker1>Well, I mean, it's always a cat and mouse game. Yeah, game. 00:13:15.264 --> 00:13:23.664 <v Speaker1>So obviously, if we stop at a certain point to improve and to develop ourselves, 00:13:24.704 --> 00:13:31.384 <v Speaker1>then it could happen that over the course of time, there will be vulnerabilities and issues. 00:13:32.024 --> 00:13:40.344 <v Speaker1>But currently we are very optimistic that what we have built has a very high quality standard and 00:13:41.524 --> 00:13:47.264 <v Speaker1>that there are no kind of big issues which could be 00:13:49.324 --> 00:13:55.524 <v Speaker1>which could be used and which could impact the quality of the service so i would 00:13:55.524 --> 00:14:02.584 <v Speaker1>say currently not too big concerned, but also because we work on it every day very hard. 00:14:03.764 --> 00:14:09.564 <v Speaker0>Yes, I do believe that something you work on it very hard, but something in 00:14:09.564 --> 00:14:12.464 <v Speaker0>the back of your mind, you can never really dismiss it, right? 00:14:13.264 --> 00:14:17.964 <v Speaker1>Yeah, I mean, this is also kind of the motivation which pushed you forward. 00:14:18.144 --> 00:14:21.044 <v Speaker1>When you think about, okay, you have solved the problem ultimately, 00:14:21.044 --> 00:14:26.144 <v Speaker1>then you usually stop working on it, improving on it. But in cybersecurity, 00:14:26.644 --> 00:14:29.204 <v Speaker1>it's like an ever-going evolution. 00:14:30.744 --> 00:14:33.924 <v Speaker1>It's like with learning. You can never learn enough. 00:14:36.584 --> 00:14:40.984 <v Speaker0>Going a little bit from link 11 into you as an entrepreneur, 00:14:41.484 --> 00:14:46.324 <v Speaker0>and I was wondering what has been the most rewarding part of your entrepreneurial 00:14:46.324 --> 00:14:49.304 <v Speaker0>journey so far, and what keeps you going? 00:14:49.304 --> 00:14:55.904 <v Speaker1>Well, you know, in like part number one of our interview, 00:14:56.184 --> 00:15:03.384 <v Speaker1>I already said some nice words about my family and this is also exactly the 00:15:03.384 --> 00:15:09.524 <v Speaker1>reason why I'm that super motivated and work or try to work as hard as I can. 00:15:09.744 --> 00:15:16.364 <v Speaker1>It's because of my family and there is no greater reward you can get than when 00:15:16.364 --> 00:15:21.664 <v Speaker1>your wife says Jesus is proud of you or your children looking up to you this 00:15:21.664 --> 00:15:26.964 <v Speaker1>is really what what motivates me like hell to to give even more and more that's 00:15:26.964 --> 00:15:28.844 <v Speaker1>more worth than any money on earth 00:15:29.804 --> 00:15:33.524 <v Speaker0>Exactly now what do you think of there um i was wondering, 00:15:34.933 --> 00:15:41.033 <v Speaker0>If you would have a time machine, I would be wondering when you can go back 00:15:41.033 --> 00:15:46.953 <v Speaker0>and give yourself an advice when you start Link 11, what would it be? 00:15:47.353 --> 00:15:52.393 <v Speaker1>Basically, it's two points what I would give my younger self as an advice. 00:15:54.253 --> 00:15:57.893 <v Speaker1>And number one is in terms of hiring, 00:15:58.273 --> 00:16:07.073 <v Speaker1>don't hire too fast in terms of don't make a decision for a hire if you are 00:16:07.073 --> 00:16:11.613 <v Speaker1>not 100% sure or at least very sure that this is the right hire. 00:16:12.873 --> 00:16:18.793 <v Speaker1>So really hire the best talent and making there some errors will at the end 00:16:18.793 --> 00:16:20.853 <v Speaker1>cost you more money, more time, 00:16:21.153 --> 00:16:26.813 <v Speaker1>more sleepless nights than if you would just wait a bit and waiting for the 00:16:26.813 --> 00:16:29.373 <v Speaker1>right and perfect match. 00:16:30.233 --> 00:16:32.993 <v Speaker1>So like putting more emphasis on this. 00:16:34.053 --> 00:16:38.853 <v Speaker1>And the second point is build a great peer network. 00:16:40.573 --> 00:16:43.453 <v Speaker1>Especially when I founded the company which 00:16:43.453 --> 00:16:46.113 <v Speaker1>is like which was 2005 right quite a long 00:16:46.113 --> 00:16:49.653 <v Speaker1>time ago I mean nowadays you have much more communities 00:16:49.653 --> 00:16:52.453 <v Speaker1>events you have these 00:16:52.453 --> 00:16:55.493 <v Speaker1>accelerator programs and so on but this 00:16:55.493 --> 00:16:59.613 <v Speaker1>this was something didn't exist back in these days and the 00:16:59.613 --> 00:17:03.333 <v Speaker1>peer network is very very crucial because you 00:17:03.333 --> 00:17:07.933 <v Speaker1>want to share ideas you want to share perspectives you need a network to get 00:17:07.933 --> 00:17:15.333 <v Speaker1>some intros so this could be also over the investor potentially um but the best 00:17:15.333 --> 00:17:17.513 <v Speaker1>advice always build it up by yourself 00:17:17.513 --> 00:17:23.273 <v Speaker1>right extend your network meet with people um this this helps a lot 00:17:24.693 --> 00:17:32.493 <v Speaker0>And from personal experience i can say it's it's pretty tough to uh tell somebody 00:17:32.493 --> 00:17:38.513 <v Speaker0>who's a teacher to really tell them what you're going through, what drives you. 00:17:39.313 --> 00:17:42.473 <v Speaker0>But another entrepreneur, they usually get it pretty fast, right? 00:17:44.273 --> 00:17:47.853 <v Speaker1>Yeah, I would say so. Absolutely. 00:17:48.173 --> 00:17:54.513 <v Speaker1>I mean, it's like always if you – I mean, there are these life coaches which 00:17:54.513 --> 00:17:58.313 <v Speaker1>say like, well, you actually – the sum out of the five or your character is 00:17:58.313 --> 00:18:01.953 <v Speaker1>like the mix of the five persons with whom you spend the most time. 00:18:01.953 --> 00:18:08.873 <v Speaker1>And therefore, if you have a great peer network, it's also very valuable from 00:18:08.873 --> 00:18:10.433 <v Speaker1>a self-development perspective. 00:18:13.873 --> 00:18:17.233 <v Speaker0>Now, we've been already talking about Time Machine. 00:18:20.173 --> 00:18:26.873 <v Speaker0>We've gone back in the question before. Now, let's get a tiny preview into the future. 00:18:27.153 --> 00:18:32.453 <v Speaker0>What's next for Link11? then what are some upcoming projects and innovations you're excited about? 00:18:33.745 --> 00:18:38.425 <v Speaker1>Yeah, we have two main work streams. One work stream is about in our product 00:18:38.425 --> 00:18:44.365 <v Speaker1>innovation and why we are currently covering very successful the DDoS attack 00:18:44.365 --> 00:18:46.385 <v Speaker1>mitigation, which is, by the way, 00:18:46.945 --> 00:18:54.385 <v Speaker1>after ransomware, the most second highest attack in terms of amount of attacks 00:18:54.385 --> 00:18:56.745 <v Speaker1>on global governments and organizations. 00:18:58.205 --> 00:19:02.345 <v Speaker1>We are also, and beside of the DDoS attacks, we are already providing solutions 00:19:02.345 --> 00:19:07.705 <v Speaker1>for web application protection being at mitigating SQL injections and database 00:19:07.705 --> 00:19:08.885 <v Speaker1>attacks and similar stuff. 00:19:09.305 --> 00:19:14.645 <v Speaker1>But what we now also will introduce or what we are currently working on is more 00:19:14.645 --> 00:19:21.545 <v Speaker1>towards network-based solutions, zero trust, as I already explained right at the beginning. 00:19:21.585 --> 00:19:27.705 <v Speaker1>Some solutions in this sector and area combined with the great visibility of 00:19:27.705 --> 00:19:31.745 <v Speaker1>actually what you have as a threat landscape in your organization. 00:19:31.745 --> 00:19:36.365 <v Speaker1>Because many companies don't know what vulnerabilities they have. 00:19:36.605 --> 00:19:40.545 <v Speaker1>And we are developing solutions which give them more insights. 00:19:40.765 --> 00:19:43.545 <v Speaker1>This is like track number one, our product expansion. 00:19:44.185 --> 00:19:51.365 <v Speaker1>And track number two are some very nice M&A activities what we have in the pipeline. 00:19:52.685 --> 00:19:57.625 <v Speaker1>Obviously, I have very hard limitations what I can say here about them because 00:19:57.625 --> 00:20:00.465 <v Speaker1>they are all under strict NDAs. 00:20:01.445 --> 00:20:08.285 <v Speaker1>But this is definitely a track where we have nice traction, where we speak with 00:20:08.285 --> 00:20:12.665 <v Speaker1>a couple of very interested entrepreneurs and companies, great technology, 00:20:12.965 --> 00:20:14.485 <v Speaker1>great markets, great customers. 00:20:15.025 --> 00:20:19.745 <v Speaker1>And we are working there on building a pan-European cyber champion. 00:20:20.890 --> 00:20:28.150 <v Speaker0>And to get this right, you are the acquirer and you talk to potential targets, takeover targets. 00:20:28.530 --> 00:20:34.570 <v Speaker1>Yes, exactly. And some of them, it's even a kind of a merger situation because 00:20:34.570 --> 00:20:37.010 <v Speaker1>companies have maybe this similar size. 00:20:37.250 --> 00:20:45.270 <v Speaker1>But you need to know, I'm a strong believer that together you could achieve more than alone. 00:20:46.070 --> 00:20:50.910 <v Speaker1>And especially in the European region we have the situation that very often 00:20:50.910 --> 00:20:54.390 <v Speaker1>we are fighting against American competition. 00:20:56.070 --> 00:21:01.510 <v Speaker1>And while the Americans are usually very large and the European counterparts 00:21:01.510 --> 00:21:04.430 <v Speaker1>in many areas are much more tiny. 00:21:04.690 --> 00:21:10.870 <v Speaker1>This is not only in cyberspace so it's also in various other industries but 00:21:10.870 --> 00:21:14.070 <v Speaker1>I would say in cyber it's maybe a little bit more extreme. 00:21:15.270 --> 00:21:19.890 <v Speaker1>Than others. And yeah, therefore, I'm a strong believer in joining forces and 00:21:19.890 --> 00:21:22.350 <v Speaker1>building a larger group of organizations. 00:21:23.730 --> 00:21:30.250 <v Speaker0>I know a lot of investors and consultants and also entrepreneurs are listening right now. 00:21:30.410 --> 00:21:36.230 <v Speaker0>If they would like to pitch their company towards you, can they approach you via LinkedIn? 00:21:36.590 --> 00:21:42.930 <v Speaker1>Oh, yes, absolutely. That would be amazing. So whenever you have an interesting 00:21:42.930 --> 00:21:48.850 <v Speaker1>startup opportunity, if you are an investor, PE, please reach out to me. 00:21:50.390 --> 00:21:56.950 <v Speaker0>We'll be back after a short ad break and talk about you, your company culture, 00:21:56.950 --> 00:21:58.630 <v Speaker0>and your thought leadership. 00:22:04.155 --> 00:22:08.435 <v Speaker0>Hey, guys, welcome back. This is the second part of the second interview with 00:22:08.435 --> 00:22:12.715 <v Speaker0>Jens, CEO from Link11, a DDoS cybersecurity company. 00:22:12.955 --> 00:22:18.915 <v Speaker0>And I was wondering, Jens, you are a thought lever in tech and cybersecurity space. 00:22:19.115 --> 00:22:24.355 <v Speaker0>How do you approach public speaking and sharing your expertise with others? 00:22:25.935 --> 00:22:30.015 <v Speaker1>Luckily, I have some help from my lovely colleagues, to be honest. 00:22:30.015 --> 00:22:35.195 <v Speaker1>So I have a team member who helps me with organizing everything, 00:22:35.615 --> 00:22:41.815 <v Speaker1>arranging everything, come up with ideas and even assist with the content. 00:22:43.695 --> 00:22:49.835 <v Speaker1>So this is a great help because it takes some time, right? I mean, this is the true story. 00:22:50.195 --> 00:22:52.015 <v Speaker1>It does not come for free. 00:22:52.995 --> 00:22:58.435 <v Speaker1>You need to invest a lot of time and energy into it. So it's great if you have some helping hands. 00:22:58.715 --> 00:23:03.895 <v Speaker1>And while we have an internal colleague for that, I also know some of my entrepreneur 00:23:03.895 --> 00:23:07.935 <v Speaker1>friends have agencies for that, which could also be a great way. 00:23:08.995 --> 00:23:13.035 <v Speaker1>Generally speaking, I think as a thought leader, it's always great. 00:23:13.215 --> 00:23:18.355 <v Speaker1>I love it also very much to share knowledge and get connected with others. 00:23:18.515 --> 00:23:26.435 <v Speaker1>So it's kind of my natural pattern and what I really like. So this is something 00:23:26.435 --> 00:23:31.995 <v Speaker1>which is quite nice. And I hope I could do it more. 00:23:32.155 --> 00:23:36.135 <v Speaker1>The biggest constraint is obviously the time commit you need to put into it. 00:23:38.135 --> 00:23:43.115 <v Speaker0>What is your main channel to distribute your content? 00:23:43.235 --> 00:23:46.295 <v Speaker0>Is it that people can follow you on LinkedIn? Is it a newsletter? 00:23:46.775 --> 00:23:51.655 <v Speaker1>Well, I have some LinkedIn followers, but in the past... 00:23:51.655 --> 00:23:58.035 <v Speaker0>Oh, you have almost 2,500. A thousand, that's not some. I would say that's many. 00:23:58.955 --> 00:24:01.835 <v Speaker1>Okay. Could always be more, right? 00:24:03.415 --> 00:24:09.155 <v Speaker1>Now, I mean, in the past, this was more like quite classic on conferences, 00:24:11.235 --> 00:24:17.115 <v Speaker1>industry conferences, cyber conferences, and similar stuff, including coverage 00:24:17.115 --> 00:24:22.915 <v Speaker1>in newspapers, large media articles. 00:24:23.475 --> 00:24:29.055 <v Speaker1>So for example, FAZ and similar stuff. But indeed nowadays gets more shifted 00:24:29.055 --> 00:24:31.035 <v Speaker1>and focused towards social media channels. 00:24:31.775 --> 00:24:36.955 <v Speaker1>In my case, I only use LinkedIn because of the time constraints. 00:24:39.066 --> 00:24:44.066 <v Speaker1>Yeah, that's a nice channel, and I think it's very, very comfortable and could 00:24:44.066 --> 00:24:49.426 <v Speaker1>only encourage others to also use it and even use it much more than I am. 00:24:50.486 --> 00:24:54.786 <v Speaker0>Great. Of course, we link your LinkedIn profile if somebody wants to follow 00:24:54.786 --> 00:24:57.246 <v Speaker0>you or pitch you a startup, as we said before. 00:24:58.206 --> 00:25:01.986 <v Speaker0>We've been talking about mergers and acquisition, and I was wondering, 00:25:02.206 --> 00:25:12.226 <v Speaker0>how do you maintain a culture adopting or merging with another entity? 00:25:12.486 --> 00:25:17.586 <v Speaker0>Do you already have a playbook? Do you have some methodologies you like to do? 00:25:17.706 --> 00:25:23.026 <v Speaker0>Because I could imagine it's quite difficult, especially if you're both about the same size. 00:25:24.686 --> 00:25:29.146 <v Speaker1>Yes, absolutely. I mean, size definitely makes it a little bit complex, 00:25:29.146 --> 00:25:31.006 <v Speaker1>but not only if it's the same size, 00:25:31.146 --> 00:25:35.506 <v Speaker1>also if the size is very different from each other, because if one company is 00:25:35.506 --> 00:25:41.226 <v Speaker1>like in a typical startup mood and culture and the other one is already organized, 00:25:41.466 --> 00:25:43.166 <v Speaker1>that this could also create some tension. 00:25:44.026 --> 00:25:48.086 <v Speaker1>Another level of complexity comes when we speak about cross-border transactions. 00:25:48.446 --> 00:25:52.386 <v Speaker1>And, yeah, you need to know our first transaction was in Canada, 00:25:52.526 --> 00:25:55.846 <v Speaker1>Vancouver, with nine hours time difference. The second one was in Israel, 00:25:56.266 --> 00:25:59.906 <v Speaker1>which is also not around the corner, obviously closer than Canada. 00:26:00.686 --> 00:26:06.966 <v Speaker1>But this makes it also, this brings also an additional level of complexity into it. 00:26:07.926 --> 00:26:14.466 <v Speaker1>To be honest, I think the best way of what we have as a kind of playbook is 00:26:14.466 --> 00:26:20.126 <v Speaker1>trying to merge also the kind of cultures. 00:26:20.126 --> 00:26:29.206 <v Speaker1>Because if you try to put over 100% of the culture you have currently and erase 00:26:29.206 --> 00:26:32.746 <v Speaker1>everything what they have built over many years locally, 00:26:34.066 --> 00:26:37.406 <v Speaker1>this will end up in no good scenario. 00:26:37.966 --> 00:26:43.646 <v Speaker1>So what we always try is like keeping nice local culture and combining it with the culture of link 11. 00:26:45.503 --> 00:26:51.603 <v Speaker1>What we also try to achieve in all of our targets because we know culture is such important 00:26:52.403 --> 00:26:56.183 <v Speaker1>we always do some kind of culture assessment before we sign the deal 00:26:56.863 --> 00:27:00.203 <v Speaker1>so looking in i mean there is some old sinned 00:27:00.203 --> 00:27:02.983 <v Speaker1>research but you can do some desk research to find out what 00:27:02.983 --> 00:27:07.923 <v Speaker1>is the culture of the company you speak with former employees you speak with 00:27:07.923 --> 00:27:13.463 <v Speaker1>actual employees and trying to understand okay what is the culture and how how 00:27:13.463 --> 00:27:17.903 <v Speaker1>we can integrate this culture into ours and also if there are some red flags 00:27:17.903 --> 00:27:20.263 <v Speaker1>in terms of culture it's very important 00:27:22.023 --> 00:27:26.503 <v Speaker1>so yeah and and this helps us to understand the culture in advance and then 00:27:26.503 --> 00:27:30.563 <v Speaker1>having like a nice playbook how to integrate this culture what of their components 00:27:30.563 --> 00:27:31.983 <v Speaker1>do we want to keep locally and 00:27:31.983 --> 00:27:37.383 <v Speaker1>what what are the global link 11 culture components we want to roll out um 00:27:37.383 --> 00:27:43.123 <v Speaker0>I was wondering how How important in terms of evaluating the culture of company 00:27:43.123 --> 00:27:47.043 <v Speaker0>is for you to look into boards, 00:27:47.303 --> 00:27:53.423 <v Speaker0>forums, and websites where employees can evaluate their employer? 00:27:55.603 --> 00:28:00.423 <v Speaker1>Well, unfortunately, very often you only read in these forums the bad things. 00:28:01.063 --> 00:28:06.963 <v Speaker1>So you need to be quite careful about putting too much emphasis on it. 00:28:06.963 --> 00:28:10.363 <v Speaker1>And you only read the frustrated comments 00:28:10.363 --> 00:28:13.443 <v Speaker1>and very rarely like wow that was 00:28:13.443 --> 00:28:16.343 <v Speaker1>amazing that was amazing so but it's it's 00:28:16.343 --> 00:28:18.963 <v Speaker1>um it's a puzzle it's a 00:28:18.963 --> 00:28:25.083 <v Speaker1>piece of the puzzle um which you want to look into it what what we like more 00:28:25.083 --> 00:28:30.103 <v Speaker1>is really like trying to speak with former employees and to understand hey what 00:28:30.103 --> 00:28:34.223 <v Speaker1>was the motivation why you have left how was it what was good what was negative 00:28:34.223 --> 00:28:37.643 <v Speaker1>like in these one-on-one conversations. 00:28:37.663 --> 00:28:42.623 <v Speaker1>I would say like the the desk research where you look into forums and reviews 00:28:43.874 --> 00:28:46.534 <v Speaker1>It helps a bit, but not too much. 00:28:47.114 --> 00:28:54.554 <v Speaker0>I was wondering how you deal with the moments of doubt because every entrepreneur knows that. 00:28:54.734 --> 00:28:57.014 <v Speaker0>What usually helps are peers. 00:28:57.434 --> 00:29:03.334 <v Speaker0>What personally helps me is quite some time of silence just thinking about it. 00:29:03.474 --> 00:29:05.674 <v Speaker0>I was wondering, how do you deal with that? 00:29:06.194 --> 00:29:09.294 <v Speaker1>I mean, in such moments of doubt, 00:29:09.574 --> 00:29:16.554 <v Speaker1>your family is always a great source and a great help to give you motivation 00:29:16.554 --> 00:29:22.254 <v Speaker1>and maybe the necessary push also to make a decision. 00:29:22.774 --> 00:29:29.754 <v Speaker1>But as I mentioned earlier before, it's important to have a peer network, peer group network. 00:29:30.034 --> 00:29:33.794 <v Speaker1>And this could also help you very much, right? So if there are other situations, 00:29:34.094 --> 00:29:38.794 <v Speaker1>reach out to persons who potentially already were in the same situation, 00:29:39.474 --> 00:29:41.554 <v Speaker1>who have experienced the same situation, 00:29:42.774 --> 00:29:46.054 <v Speaker1>usually everybody's very happy to share his knowledge. 00:29:46.414 --> 00:29:49.974 <v Speaker1>And you would be surprised actually how happy some people are to share their 00:29:49.974 --> 00:29:54.574 <v Speaker1>knowledge and how easy it is to get some good advice from people who had been 00:29:54.574 --> 00:29:59.794 <v Speaker1>in the same situation and ask about how were you able to solve this situation. 00:30:00.034 --> 00:30:05.534 <v Speaker1>And yeah, that helps to get good ideas. It has to give you confidence that you 00:30:05.534 --> 00:30:09.534 <v Speaker1>are on the right way or also open you the eyes that you are on the totally wrong way, 00:30:10.594 --> 00:30:15.914 <v Speaker1>which is sometimes even more valuable than confirmation that you are on the right way 00:30:17.134 --> 00:30:22.454 <v Speaker0>We should make an inside joke in German you say if you are on the wrong way you are on the wood way, 00:30:27.514 --> 00:30:32.454 <v Speaker0>not being on the wood way what do you think are the most important skills and 00:30:32.454 --> 00:30:39.434 <v Speaker0>quality an entrepreneur needs to succeed a will to an idea what do you want 00:30:39.434 --> 00:30:41.914 <v Speaker0>to reach and a will to work very hard to get there? 00:30:44.654 --> 00:30:48.314 <v Speaker1>I mean, you cannot achieve any great outcome alone. 00:30:49.054 --> 00:30:56.034 <v Speaker1>So people, management, identify talent, motivate talent, and so on. 00:30:57.071 --> 00:31:01.971 <v Speaker1>This is like one of one of the key skills you need to have at a certain stage 00:31:01.971 --> 00:31:08.431 <v Speaker1>so and it's quite sad that i mean such things you don't learn in school or at 00:31:08.431 --> 00:31:10.351 <v Speaker1>least not in the schools i was um 00:31:10.991 --> 00:31:16.351 <v Speaker1>i mean if you go to an nice a grade business school they will teach you such 00:31:16.351 --> 00:31:21.451 <v Speaker1>things right and they are super super important and i would say the next next 00:31:21.451 --> 00:31:23.231 <v Speaker1>super important thing is about 00:31:24.111 --> 00:31:29.831 <v Speaker1>you need to be able to have some kind of capability to sell your solution. 00:31:30.771 --> 00:31:36.271 <v Speaker1>Because there's a saying which is like selling solves basically every problem, right? 00:31:36.351 --> 00:31:40.911 <v Speaker1>If you are able to sell your solution and you could save every problem, 00:31:41.031 --> 00:31:45.091 <v Speaker1>you have enough revenue, you have enough growth and with enough revenue and 00:31:45.091 --> 00:31:46.771 <v Speaker1>enough growth, you also get into profitability. 00:31:47.231 --> 00:31:54.571 <v Speaker1>So this and great things. So my recommendation, yeah, be very good in talent 00:31:54.571 --> 00:32:00.351 <v Speaker1>management, talent identification and hiring, be very good in selling. 00:32:01.331 --> 00:32:07.031 <v Speaker1>And yeah, beside all of that, I mean, obviously you need to have sector and product expertise. 00:32:08.311 --> 00:32:11.691 <v Speaker1>It's difficult to sell something where you have no idea from and it's difficult 00:32:11.691 --> 00:32:16.951 <v Speaker1>to build a company with something where you have no idea from. 00:32:17.091 --> 00:32:20.871 <v Speaker1>So for me, for example, be very difficult now to build an insurance startup. 00:32:21.231 --> 00:32:28.191 <v Speaker1>Even if I know how to find talent and manage them, even if I have some kind 00:32:28.191 --> 00:32:33.391 <v Speaker1>of talent to sell something, I have zero experience in insurance sector. 00:32:33.631 --> 00:32:38.531 <v Speaker1>So this would take a long time and I would be definitely the wrong person for 00:32:38.531 --> 00:32:39.711 <v Speaker1>such a startup ambition. 00:32:41.331 --> 00:32:48.891 <v Speaker0>I would add one piece. Either you're talented to sell something or you get a co-founder who is. 00:32:49.471 --> 00:32:53.451 <v Speaker1>Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Which comes back to point number one, right? 00:32:53.651 --> 00:32:57.851 <v Speaker1>Finding and identifying talent and getting them on board. 00:32:58.836 --> 00:33:03.516 <v Speaker0>We now went through a lot of questions. Finally, the last one. 00:33:04.116 --> 00:33:09.396 <v Speaker0>What is the legacy you hope to leave behind with Link11? 00:33:09.476 --> 00:33:12.416 <v Speaker0>And how do you envision your company's impact? 00:33:13.876 --> 00:33:20.896 <v Speaker1>I would be very happy if I'm able to inspire some people to found their own 00:33:20.896 --> 00:33:25.136 <v Speaker1>business or to improve their entrepreneurial life career. 00:33:25.356 --> 00:33:29.676 <v Speaker1>So this would definitely make me very, very happy. And beside of that, 00:33:29.796 --> 00:33:33.256 <v Speaker1>I mean, we are on the mission to building a European cyber champion because 00:33:33.256 --> 00:33:40.076 <v Speaker1>we are very sad that there are so few cyber companies in Europe. 00:33:40.076 --> 00:33:44.536 <v Speaker1>It's definitely an underrepresented sector compared to other countries. 00:33:44.536 --> 00:33:46.996 <v Speaker1>And we have great engineering here. 00:33:47.876 --> 00:33:51.876 <v Speaker1>We have huge demand for such solutions. We are in uncertain times. 00:33:51.876 --> 00:33:56.656 <v Speaker1>We're facing global geopolitical threats. 00:33:57.776 --> 00:34:02.496 <v Speaker1>So this is our mission to build this Japan European Cyber Champion. 00:34:02.556 --> 00:34:09.736 <v Speaker1>I would be super happy if we are able to succeed and to build these organization 00:34:09.736 --> 00:34:16.496 <v Speaker1>within the next five years and having there at the end some kind of really legacy 00:34:16.496 --> 00:34:21.696 <v Speaker1>organizations which is able to achieve and be successful over quite a long time. 00:34:21.876 --> 00:34:26.756 <v Speaker1>I think this would be very nice for a German startup and ecosystem. 00:34:28.636 --> 00:34:34.016 <v Speaker0>If you, our listener or viewer, enjoyed today's interview with Jens Philipp 00:34:34.016 --> 00:34:38.516 <v Speaker0>Jung, want more insights from the world of startup tech and entrepreneurship, 00:34:38.816 --> 00:34:40.756 <v Speaker0>don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe. 00:34:41.096 --> 00:34:42.876 <v Speaker0>What's one lesson you've learned 00:34:42.876 --> 00:34:46.996 <v Speaker0>in your entrepreneurial journey and think that is crucial for success? 00:34:47.176 --> 00:34:52.516 <v Speaker0>Share with us below and we'd love to hear thoughts. Jens, that's it. Thank you very much. 00:34:52.696 --> 00:34:57.556 <v Speaker0>Best of luck by building a European cybersecurity champion. 00:34:57.756 --> 00:35:02.856 <v Speaker0>And, of course, I hope I'm on the press distribution list for everything you do in the future, right? 00:35:03.596 --> 00:35:08.096 <v Speaker1>Thank you very much. And, yes, you will be, absolutely. So looking forward. 00:35:08.916 --> 00:35:10.936 <v Speaker1>Thank you for your time. It was great being your guest. 00:35:11.596 --> 00:35:13.756 <v Speaker0>Totally my pleasure. Have a good day. Bye-bye. 00:35:14.096 --> 00:35:14.416 <v Speaker1>Bye-bye. 00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:45.059 <v Music>