Latest / Rusty's Garage / Russell Ingall (Part 1)

Transcript

Russell Ingall (Part 1) · Rusty's Garage

• 0:02
  A listener production.
• 0:18
  I'm automotive commentator and journalist Greg Rust, and this is Rusty's Garage.
• 0:26
  This episode's been a long time in the making.
• 0:29
  My guest is Russell Engle, a proper modern-day legend of Australian motorsport.
• 0:35
  I'm beaming in from home, and he's at his place on the Gold Coast.
• 0:39
  He's not really done the whole book or this is your life chat, so we're immensely proud and thankful that he's decided to do a podcast.
• 0:47
  You really should do a book as well.
• 0:49
  I've known Russell for over 20 years.
• 0:52
  I've only ever known him to be a hard racer, something I really admire.
• 0:57
  He's a character, someone with a strong viewpoint, and importantly, conviction.
• 1:02
  This is the longest podcast I've done.
• 1:05
  Russell was up for a chat and I promise you will love every minute of it.
• 1:09
  For that reason, we've split it into three episodes, something we rarely do.
• 1:14
  We cover a huge amount of ground.
• 1:17
  His early years in karting that shaped the man we would come to know as the enforcer.
• 1:22
  We'll do something that hasn't often been done.
• 1:25
  Stop.
• 1:26
  and celebrate a seriously impressive chapter racing overseas and some of the big names he went wheel to wheel with.
• 1:33
  The learnings from that important part of his career and the intensity of racing in Europe and the politics.
• 1:40
  Of course, we'll talk supercars, the first appearances at Bathurst, working with Larry Perkins and winning the great race.
• 1:47
  The influence of his close friend, the late Barry Sheen.
• 1:50
  Winning the title with the Stone Brothers.
• 1:53
  That rivalry with Mark Scaife.
• 1:55
  His work in the media, including the success of his online show, The Enforcer and the Dude.
• 2:00
  We'll tackle some of your questions and have a few laughs about some behind-the-scenes stories.
• 2:05
  Listen out for a few things I hadn't heard before too.
• 2:09
  Opportunities in the US and the British Touring Car Championship.
• 2:13
  The toll not being in a race car took on him when he ventured into broadcasting, which is why he still loves putting the helmet on and racing even now.
• 2:22
  Plus, his views on the future of supercars.
• 2:26
  We'll begin with the early years.
• 2:28
  The memories are as vivid now and it's so cool that he's keen to share them with you all.
• 2:39
  Jeez, I hope you're ready for this, mate.
• 2:41
  This could go pear-shaped really easy.
• 2:45
  And you've known me for plenty of years, as long as I've known you.
• 2:48
  And yeah, no, look, it's great to be on.
• 2:51
  Australia's biggest podcast.
• 2:52
  Jeez, I feel a little bit on it.
• 2:54
  And funnily enough, a little bit nervous too about this.
• 2:57
  Because- Why?
• 2:59
  Well, I really haven't done the life and times of New Australia.
• 3:03
  You know, I sort of, as out there as I am, I'm sort of a little bit reserved in a lot of things and I don't go around pumping up my own tyres that much, to be quite honest.
• 3:11
  And I've never really, a lot of people have asked me about doing books and all this sort of thing.
• 3:16
  I'm going, yeah, it's, yeah, maybe, maybe not, you know.
• 3:21
  So this is the first time I've actually done anything like this.
• 3:24
  So it's going to be interesting for me as well, looking back in the revision mirror.
• 3:30
  Well, mate, there's so much to cover, Russell, in so many ways.
• 3:34
  So tell me about those early years.
• 3:35
  What are the early influences?
• 3:37
  Well, to get back to the original, I grew up in Adelaide.
• 3:41
  I came out to Australia from England when I was three.
• 3:47
  Actually, only the other day because I did a charity thing for breast cancer on the weekend and someone asked me there, how long have you been out from New Zealand?
• 3:58
  I think it's a combination of the Pommie and Australian accent, you know.
• 4:01
  But my dad was a motor mechanic in England.
• 4:03
  He came out.
• 4:04
  He was one of the £10 Poms.
• 4:06
  And we rolled straight.
• 4:08
  I think you had two options.
• 4:09
  I think it was Adelaide and I think Adelaide and WA.
• 4:14
  But anyway, we took Adelaide and grew up around cars.
• 4:17
  My father owned a service station, a Shell service station, actually, in Port Adelaide.
• 4:21
  And that was probably a lot of the influence in getting...
• 4:26
  because my mother died of breast cancer when I was very young.
• 4:30
  And it was just the two of us.
• 4:32
  So just the two of us growing together in a three-bedroom house in Adelaide, very modest.
• 4:37
  He was a dead-set hard worker.
• 4:39
  It was one of those where service stations actually lived up to its name, service.
• 4:44
  You know, put the petrol in, someone comes out, fills your car up.
• 4:47
  pumps your tyres up, washes your screen, you know, the whole bit.
• 4:51
  So I grew up around that, used to cycle from school in the afternoon into Port Adelaide and then straight into taking some plugs out and working on cars and that sort of thing.
• 5:01
  So I think that's where the whole...
• 5:03
  You know, love of motoring and motorsport.
• 5:06
  And we got into karting very young as well when I was 12 years old because there was an old relic of a kart in a crash repair that was at the back of Dad's service station.
• 5:16
  He used to rent it to this guy that used to fix cars.
• 5:20
  And it was hanging up on a nail on the side, this frame of A-frame go-kart.
• 5:26
  So, we kept eyeing it off and eyeing it off and Dad said, do you want to give it a go?
• 5:30
  So, we dragged it off the wall and bought a McCulloch chainsaw engine and whacked that on and that was the engine of the day and that's how it all started.
• 5:38
  But yeah, I think that's where the whole passion for the whole motorsport thing kicked off was back in those early days of...
• 5:46
  kicking around cars and working on them.
• 5:50
  What was the local track?
• 5:51
  Was it Wyala that you used to go to?
• 5:52
  And did it click straight away for you, Russell?
• 5:54
  Actually, I started racing motocross when I was about 10.
• 5:57
  And I only did three years of that.
• 5:59
  And I found out two things.
• 6:01
  Number one, I probably wasn't very good.
• 6:03
  Number two is, it hurts when you come off.
• 6:05
  Big time.
• 6:06
  So I think that's why there was a transition over to go-kart racing.
• 6:10
  But, yeah, I mean, we had some great tracks.
• 6:11
  There was Bolivar, which was the biggest one.
• 6:14
  That was on your way out to Adelaide National Raceway.
• 6:17
  Brosser Valley, which is right in the middle of Brosser Valley, this beautiful scenic track.
• 6:22
  It was a stunning place.
• 6:26
  Then they had another one called the Pines, which was their –
• 6:31
  up in the hills of Lobenthal.
• 6:34
  And yeah, so there was, we probably had four or five.
• 6:39
  Wyala, there was obviously one as well, Port Augusta.
• 6:44
  So we had some really cool tracks around the place.
• 6:46
  And I think that's what the attraction was in karting, because you had, in your own state, you had so many cool places to go to.
• 6:52
  And then later on in the years, when I started doing it pretty serious,
• 6:56
  because I ended up owning a cart shop and we used to go all around Australia, WA, Perth, Toowoomba and all these sort of places.
• 7:05
  So it was a great time.
• 7:08
  I think carting was probably one of the best things
• 7:12
  eras of my motorsport career ever, I think.
• 7:15
  It was just so enjoyable, so competitive.
• 7:17
  And I did it from when I was 12 to my late teens.
• 7:21
  So it was a big innings.
• 7:23
  Were you always sort of fiercely competitive?
• 7:27
  And later on, you'd get that great reputation for being...
• 7:30
  you know, tough and uncompromising and things like that.
• 7:32
  But did that nature come out very early in you in the karting phase?
• 7:37
  Oh, absolutely.
• 7:37
  I think because of the – and I always say – and I was very interested because I'm a massive, as you know, a massive Aiton Centre fan.
• 7:46
  I think he was the all-time most complete and best race driver.
• 7:52
  And I remember during his documentary that he did, he was asked the question, what motor sport did you enjoy the most?
• 8:00
  go-karts you know he said go-kart racing he's and his his answer which i reckon was spot on is the most pure form of motor racing and i think what he means by that is it's it's raw uh it's a fairly basic sort of machine um pretty well anyone could buy or or have the same equipment as what you got so it came down to the driver um
• 8:25
  You know, the guy behind the wheel and those two pedals, that's what it actually came down to.
• 8:29
  And I felt exactly the same.
• 8:31
  It was a former motorsport where it was fiercely competitive.
• 8:37
  You had to push the limits because you didn't have an equipment advantage.
• 8:42
  It was purely down to the driver and the competition side of it as far as wheel-to-wheel racing to a point where I actually got disappointed
• 8:53
  as I started moving up the pyramid and up the food chain of motor racing, that I found the challenges still the same and probably more so, but when you got down to the raw form,
• 9:06
  the actual wheel-to-wheel racing, karting was the best.
• 9:09
  You know, and I missed that as you went up.
• 9:12
  I found that got less and less and it was more about other factors, just different.
• 9:18
  But when you come down to it, it was such good years and made a lot of friendships along the way.
• 9:24
  But more importantly, it gave you a gauge where,
• 9:29
  whether you had it or not, whether you had the it fact there and you were going to either pursue it as a motorsport as a...
• 9:37
  as a hobby or you're going to get serious and have a big swing at it and then dedicate your life to it.
• 9:43
  And I was fiercely competitive and it went all the way to I ended up owning a cart shop with a partner of mine, Colin Moat, who was in that era very renowned for his engine tuning capabilities and we ended up manufacturing our own cart and Drew Price, who's still in the cart business to this day, manufacturing the Demon Carts.
• 10:06
  uh, he was our main competition or, you know, he was the benchmark and, and one year we, we ended up taking out most of the championships that year.
• 10:15
  We, I think we built 250 chassis in one year.
• 10:18
  Amazing.
• 10:18
  There's a little workshop up at, uh, just outside of, uh, Adelaide CBD.
• 10:23
  And, uh,
• 10:24
  You know, the three of us working there were all hands-on and I think you sort of look back at those sort of things, Greg, and you go, you take it for granted a bit.
• 10:36
  Those sort of days you were just living day-to-day, week-to-week and it was just all about the kart racing and trying to run a business in my late teens and, you know, there was a lot going on and you never thought about later on how many life lessons that taught you along the way as far as, you know,
• 10:54
  how to bring out the best in yourself, how to, you know, manage certain situations.
• 10:59
  And I learned a lot from those years, you know, not just on the track but off the track as well.
• 11:05
  But it's during that period that I had to make a call.
• 11:09
  You know, the call came was do I just do carts for the rest of my life and run a cart shop and, you know, and end up just doing that or do I have a swing at see if I can actually get somewhere and do.
• 11:22
  I think out of all of it, and I was lucky enough, well, not lucky enough, it was through hard work and that I won quite a few kart championships and had to make the call, right, do I just try and keep heading up the ladder?
• 11:37
  And I made the call.
• 11:37
  I said, okay, let's do this.
• 11:41
  I started racing Formula Fords.
• 11:43
  And with all things like that, once I start going into another form of motorsport, the karting side of it suffered a little bit and, yeah,
• 11:52
  my business partner at that stage said, look, you know, you've got to make a decision.
• 11:56
  Are we, we're going to do this as a business or are you going to go off and try and be a race driver full time?
• 12:03
  And, and, uh, it came down to the decision.
• 12:05
  I said, well, look, I want to give this a go.
• 12:07
  I reckon I can do it.
• 12:08
  So I ended up selling my half of the business out and then started doing formula fours full time.
• 12:13
  But it was a hard decision because you've got a business here that's earning good money.
• 12:17
  And it was your livelihood.
• 12:20
  Uh,
• 12:21
  Or do I just throw all that away or there was 10 years of, you know, of work and do it, you know, and then, you know,
• 12:30
  flow into something else.
• 12:31
  But anyway, I made that call and that was sort of like in the late 80s.
• 12:35
  And in the end, I think it was the right decision, but it was made.
• 12:39
  It was a tough call.
• 12:39
  It was like, OK, we're just about to jump on this train.
• 12:42
  Here we go.
• 12:44
  Big call, but it would pay dividends taking that risk, Russell.
• 12:47
  So the two things out of that comment that I love is I love the fact that like Senna, the purity of karting is something that really appealed to you.
• 12:55
  And clearly that, you know, you've been very savvy in a commercial sense in your racing life.
• 13:00
  And there were some great early lessons that that karting business clearly helped you with.
• 13:04
  I want to just before we move into Formula Ford and the car racing phase, if you will, you talked about it being, you know, karting a place less likely compared to motocross to get an injury.
• 13:15
  But you did lose a finger.
• 13:17
  Russell did.
• 13:19
  What happened?
• 13:20
  It was Oram Park.
• 13:22
  I was just trying to think what year.
• 13:23
  I think it was 80 because it was just before I started racing full-time in Formula 4.
• 13:29
  I think it was 87.
• 13:31
  And there was a CIK, an international meeting at Oram Park.
• 13:35
  That's when they used to use just turn off, just after the bridge at Oram Park, they used to turn off.
• 13:39
  Great old track.
• 13:40
  Straight down the hill, it was magnificent.
• 13:43
  And they had quite a few international events there, which I used to go to all of them and be part of the Australia team.
• 13:48
  They used to bring out all the greats.
• 13:50
  You know, there was Giancarlo Fisichello and Max Pappas was an awesome driver.
• 13:54
  He actually won the CRK event there a couple of times.
• 13:59
  So they used to bring the Italian-European teams and –
• 14:03
  All the teams from the manufacturers used to come over here, UK as well, and all assemble at Orramp Park and have this massive international meeting.
• 14:13
  It was just so good to be part of all that.
• 14:16
  Yeah, so we were – that was at that meet.
• 14:19
  We actually had a meeting just before that, which was a test meeting before we rolled into the CIK.
• 14:26
  And, yeah, I ended up coming up over the bridge in typical –
• 14:30
  of me, tried a manoeuvre that was probably a little bit iffy and run out of real estate.
• 14:35
  Anyway, I got tangled up with this other guy, flipped over, and I mustn't have let go of the steering wheel.
• 14:42
  And it was actually dragging up over the bridge on the steering wheel.
• 14:46
  And I must have just, you know, fighting it to the death, holding it up.
• 14:49
  When you're upside down, you probably, it should have been lights out, but no, I had to hang on for a bit longer.
• 14:55
  And I ripped it off anyway.
• 14:56
  I didn't actually know because I had the glove on.
• 15:00
  And I thought, oh, damn it.
• 15:01
  You know, so I go to pick the card up and see if I can get restarted and the seat was all broken and flipped it over.
• 15:06
  I go, no, this is no good.
• 15:08
  Anyway, I dragged the card off and I go, geez, the hand's a bit sore.
• 15:11
  I lifted up my glove and the index finger just flopped over.
• 15:16
  And I'm going, oh, this is all bad.
• 15:18
  And then there was obviously a fair bit of claret kicking around.
• 15:22
  And I thought, oh, this is no good.
• 15:24
  Anyway, I pulled my glove off and had a look and then I'm going, oh, then I started to get a bit dizzy.
• 15:28
  I go, this is all bad.
• 15:30
  But yeah, long and short of it is they stop the race and medics come over and going, oh, Jesus, you know.
• 15:36
  And then the funny enough thing about it is then there was a search on because some of the other drivers go and they're going,
• 15:43
  We'll see if we can find the finger because we might be able to stitch it back on.
• 15:46
  So you had all these drivers and mechanics and they're all going around on the top of the hill there on the bridge on Oran Park looking for my finger, you know.
• 15:55
  No one actually ever found it.
• 15:56
  I think it grew into a tree or something.
• 15:58
  I don't know.
• 15:58
  Probably under a house at the moment there.
• 16:00
  And, yeah, so that was strapped it all up and off to the local hospital at New Orleans there, I think.
• 16:08
  And, yeah, we ended up in Sydney Hospital driving into Sydney and getting it fixed up.
• 16:12
  But the thing is the week after that race was a race called the Hong Kong Grand Prix.
• 16:20
  And it was a massive race they used to have at the basketball courts right in the center of Hong Kong.
• 16:25
  And I got invited with Swiss Hutlers to race there.
• 16:29
  So that was a week after it.
• 16:32
  And I was in the hospital for two days and they said, what do you want to do?
• 16:36
  And I said, well, try and keep as much as you can.
• 16:38
  Let's stitch it up.
• 16:39
  And because I want to make it, still make it to this race.
• 16:42
  Anyway, they looked at it and said, yeah, going anywhere.
• 16:46
  This is going to be months.
• 16:47
  I said, yeah, yeah, okay, typical.
• 16:49
  When you're young, you're full of beans.
• 16:51
  They stitched it up and...
• 16:53
  And got released from the hospital, signed myself out.
• 16:57
  And the mechanic I was with, who helped me with the carts, he said, we're still gonna go?
• 17:02
  I said, damn right we are.
• 17:03
  We strapped it up, jumped on a burner, went over there and it hurt like hell.
• 17:07
  And I got a few painkillers and stuff.
• 17:09
  And we ended up making a splint for it because it kept flopping around on the steering wheel because it's a really bumpy track.
• 17:17
  My little finger kept bouncing up and down.
• 17:19
  And so we actually got some lollipop sticks and some race tape and I made a little splint out of it.
• 17:25
  Anyway, we ended up in the semifinals.
• 17:27
  I got fifth in the semifinals.
• 17:29
  It was pouring down with grain.
• 17:31
  And, yeah, we damn nearly got a podium.
• 17:35
  So it was a really good – it was, again, life experiences.
• 17:38
  And, yeah, it was a wild one, that one.
• 17:41
  But funny enough, it's now a bit of a thing with me, the missing finger.
• 17:46
  Most definitely.
• 17:47
  Again, not many people know what happened about it.
• 17:48
  No.
• 17:49
  Cool story.
• 17:50
  Hey, I'm glad you bring up the fact that you were competing overseas there because, you know, you'd won junior and senior titles in karting in Australia.
• 17:58
  Before you embarked on this, you know, the good race drivers have this rite of passage going through Formula Ford in many respects.
• 18:06
  It's a common denominator on every CV.
• 18:08
  But I think it's important to point out with you, Russell, not every young racer has experience in karts internationally, but you did, didn't you?
• 18:19
  Yeah, for sure.
• 18:21
  And I used to race for the Swiss Hutlers, who was one of the big, there was Carly Karts, Swiss Hutlers, Techno.
• 18:28
  They were sort of like the big international brands that came to Australia.
• 18:31
  And I was part of the Swiss Hutlers team towards the end of my career in kardingal.
• 18:38
  the importer into Australia, said, oh, look, Swiss Atlas have seen what you do over here and they want to know if you're interested in doing a couple of rounds of the European Championship.
• 18:49
  And I said, hell yeah.
• 18:52
  On we go.
• 18:52
  And so we went over there for about three months and my teammate was Mika Sarlo.
• 18:58
  Mika.
• 18:59
  He was the European champion.
• 19:01
  Swiss hutless driver.
• 19:03
  And so we went over there and I think I was, oh, it must have been 16 because I was the only one that had a licence because we went over there and we went to the factory for a week and they fitted out with a car.
• 19:15
  And it was phenomenal.
• 19:17
  Look, carding,
• 19:18
  And I presume it's just as big, but then it was mind-blowing because, you know, in Australia, you've got one car, one engine, and you go racing, you know.
• 19:26
  And we went over there and went to the factory and they said, oh, hi, Mr. Ingram, you know, do the intros.
• 19:32
  And I'm walking around going, how good is this?
• 19:34
  This is like a car factory, you know, where they manufacture all the carts.
• 19:39
  They said, here's your cuts for the next two rounds of the Italian or the European Championship.
• 19:45
  And there was like 15 chassis lined up and I'm going, they had my name and I'm going, are you serious?
• 19:51
  It was like NASCAR, you know, where they got awesome.
• 19:53
  Just all lined up, engines ready to go.
• 19:56
  We went out testing and I think Farno was the first round of the championship there.
• 20:02
  And we got there and because I was the only one that had a licence, I drove the truck there because they said, here's your truck.
• 20:09
  And Micah's going with you.
• 20:11
  There's all your carts.
• 20:12
  We'll put it in the back, loaded.
• 20:13
  You drive there and we'll meet you there.
• 20:14
  So we're driving around, wrong side of the road.
• 20:17
  He's this kid from Adelaide, just absolute bogan, still got the mullet flowing out the back and that.
• 20:25
  And we were in the middle of Italy driving for one of the world's biggest cart teams and potentially.
• 20:34
  not knowing at that stage, sitting next to what will be a Formula 1 driver, you know, and here we are.
• 20:39
  We're rocking down there and rocking through Italy and going, how good's this?
• 20:43
  And roll up to these tracks.
• 20:44
  And like I said, we did two rounds of the European Championships and I got 10th whanau.
• 20:49
  And it was – but it was out of control.
• 20:52
  Like it was just the level.
• 20:54
  And I liken it to going –
• 20:57
  probably from clubby racing to going to Formula 1.
• 21:01
  That's what it was like.
• 21:02
  Such a step.
• 21:03
  Oh, transporters and just the magnitude.
• 21:06
  But then you look at all the drivers and probably at that stage, all the drivers that ran into the Formula 1 drivers that ended up in Formula 1 in the 90s were there.
• 21:16
  They would have been racing karts, you know, all the massive names, you know, more Bedellies and just...
• 21:23
  just a massive and it was just another level.
• 21:27
  But again, it was all these experiences coming at me, you know, and all this stuff flowing in that I'm going, yeah, okay.
• 21:36
  And again, you didn't think about it then because you were just flat out doing it, you know, and then now I think back, Jesus, that was pretty cool.
• 21:44
  Mega.
• 21:45
  Not too many.
• 21:46
  When you look at...
• 21:47
  all the drivers that you think about, even European drivers, but definitely in Australia that didn't do that or didn't have the opportunity to do it.
• 21:54
  And I look back and go, man, that's so cool.
• 21:58
  But no one knew about it.
• 22:00
  I knew about it.
• 22:00
  And, you know, the guys that helped me out, the mechanics that gave their time up, they came with me and they knew about it.
• 22:08
  But the scope of it was unbelievable.
• 22:11
  But, again, it kept feeding the beast as far as,
• 22:17
  competition and levels, you know what I mean?
• 22:19
  Because I think any sport is, I find it's just all levels, you know, and you keep thinking the level is here, right?
• 22:29
  You think all I have to do is get here and I'm there.
• 22:32
  And then all of a sudden,
• 22:35
  you go to a place like Europe and with European racing and you think I'm only halfway there.
• 22:41
  That's not the level.
• 22:41
  The level has just been, you know, is way over my head.
• 22:44
  So then you've got another target and you have to, you know, get in there and do it.
• 22:48
  And I, and I think with all those experiences combined, that's what when I eventually ended up back in Australia, that's why I believe my level was so high is because, um,
• 22:59
  you know, I was pushed so hard earlier on, you know.
• 23:01
  I saw what the goal was, you know, and saw what I had to do to make it.
• 23:06
  And it was, you know, you come out of it now.
• 23:08
  And then there's a couple of times I sort of went,
• 23:11
  you know, I think I can do it.
• 23:13
  But then once I got amongst it, there was a couple of little times there where I thought, man, I'm not sure whether I can get to where I'm not sure I can compete with these dudes.
• 23:24
  But again, I think that's part of the challenge of growing is going, nah,
• 23:30
  Get that out of your head.
• 23:32
  If he can do it, I can do it.
• 23:34
  He's got two arms and two legs.
• 23:36
  So I've just got to figure out a way to do it.
• 23:39
  And that's why I rate karts so highly because all those experiences gave me the tools I needed to know that I can do it.
• 23:47
  You know what I mean?
• 23:47
  Because I think that's what it's about.
• 23:49
  And the raw form of motorsport teaches you that.
• 23:51
  And I think it'd be the same with motorbike riders when they're coming through those lower categories.
• 23:58
  I think you're challenged harder then than you are later on down the road.
• 24:02
  Right.
• 24:02
  I love it, Russell.
• 24:03
  I love the simplicity of the way you've broken it down and just the importance you've placed on karting there for people that are younger listeners.
• 24:10
  We'll come back to this European chapter because I think it's something that is...
• 24:16
  not widely spoken about, but you had a big swing at it.
• 24:18
  And that's an important thing that I'd like to cover with you.
• 24:22
  Firstly, Formula Ford, though, am I right in saying in the late 80s there that in only your second meeting in Australia, which may have been at the Australian Grand Prix, in fact, you finished in the top three.
• 24:33
  Is that right?
• 24:33
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 24:36
  Yeah, it was – I found Formula Fords – it was hard because a cart is like a little Formula 1 car, very responsive and it's agile.
• 24:44
  And then you got into the Formula Ford and all of a sudden you've got a gear shift and it's a little bit lazier.
• 24:50
  And I had to – I actually had to wind myself back a little bit, you know, and go, right, okay, I've just got to figure out how this thing works because I can't throw it around like I did with a cart, you know.
• 25:00
  I've got to be a bit kinder to it, you know.
• 25:02
  So once I got my head around that, which it took me a meeting to do, and again, I suppose the competitive side came out, and I got to know this fast because I knew how expensive it was too, and that was the other part about it.
• 25:16
  What were you spending back then in terms of budgets for a year for driving to Europe and stuff like that?
• 25:20
  Oh, well, even – oh, jeez, you're going to laugh, but I remember when in 1990, the year I won the Formula Ford Championship, the coffee Ford sponsorship, who Mark Larkin had the year before in 89, I think it was 60 grand.
• 25:35
  So we did the whole year and I was doing it from Adelaide as well, from basically from my backyard and home.
• 25:42
  So, yeah, we did the whole year and won the year on 60 grand.
• 25:45
  So it was – that's not including the car, of course.
• 25:48
  But, yeah, so that's pretty cheap.
• 25:51
  You don't go go-karting for that now.
• 25:53
  But I think when I started and did those few races in 88 and got a result, like I said, I thought –
• 26:00
  But I knew I had to get a result.
• 26:02
  If I'm going to try and – because I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth, like I said.
• 26:06
  It was just me and Dad growing up in Adelaide.
• 26:09
  Just very – he did more for me than I probably appreciate, you know, as most fathers do.
• 26:15
  And –
• 26:17
  But I knew if I was going to succeed, there was only one way I was going to do it because I didn't know the system.
• 26:23
  I didn't know the people.
• 26:25
  I probably wasn't the most promotable person in the world either because, you know, like I said, I was just a bogan from Adelaide, you know.
• 26:31
  So, yeah.
• 26:33
  I knew the only way I was going to get through is win races.
• 26:36
  It's the only way you're going to do it.
• 26:37
  If I win races, I'll keep going, you know.
• 26:39
  So I thought I'm not going to do this whole, oh, look, I'll take a year to get my eye in.
• 26:45
  I'll get my eye in after the first race, you know, and then because I had to.
• 26:49
  And that's why those few races were so important and getting that first podium was so important because all of a sudden people went,
• 26:57
  Who's this dude?
• 26:58
  Hang on, he just come on and kick the butts of some of the best Formula Ford drivers kicking around.
• 27:02
  And okay, maybe I should pay attention.
• 27:05
  And then from that, that rolled on to a deal with Van Diemen, who supplied cars for, well, a subsidised car for 89 and then a free car for 90 through Steve Knott, the late Steve Knott from Van Diemen Australia.
• 27:22
  And that helped me.
• 27:23
  But
• 27:23
  Again, it wasn't later in Formula 4 that started it.
• 27:28
  It was those two races.
• 27:29
  And it always amazes me with sport, you know, and you can look at any...
• 27:35
  any, you know, story of successful people in sport, it's normally just one thing.
• 27:41
  Pivotal moment, Russell, kind of thing, yeah.
• 27:44
  It is, and that's what changes.
• 27:46
  So that's what I was saying.
• 27:47
  But I knew that.
• 27:47
  You know, I knew I had to make an impact straight away, otherwise she was back to servicing cars, you know.
• 27:55
  So it's a pretty good incentive.
• 27:56
  I can tell you.
• 27:57
  So how were you making ends meet?
• 27:59
  What were you doing to sort of fund all this and keep it all going?
• 28:02
  Mate, anything I could.
• 28:03
  There was one thing I was good at is wheeling and dealing.
• 28:07
  You still are.
• 28:09
  I was buying and selling cars.
• 28:11
  I was still working on cars.
• 28:13
  Anything I could do, again, the cart shop before I got rid of that helped me fund it along the way.
• 28:21
  But until I got that first sponsorship deal in 90, end of 88 and 89, I pretty well funded myself.
• 28:28
  And, look, Dad helped me out along the way with it as well, but as much as he could.
• 28:35
  But, yeah.
• 28:36
  Yeah, it was – but we did it modestly.
• 28:39
  I was working on the car.
• 28:40
  I had a mate of mine, Bobby Smith, who was working on the cars for me and he did it for free.
• 28:46
  You know, so we were just – we just had living expenses and that was about it and whatever parts.
• 28:52
  And fortunately enough, along –
• 28:55
  There was people that would supply stuff to us and I started getting the odd deal here and there.
• 28:59
  And it's funny when you look at the two sponsors, I think one of the sponsors we had on the 89, Van Diemen, was Caltex.
• 29:07
  Funny enough, I went on to win a championship with Caltex.
• 29:08
  With them, yeah.
• 29:09
  Yeah, yeah.
• 29:10
  And then it turned on to Castro later on in 90s.
• 29:14
  So it was, yeah, it's funny how they followed me out throughout.
• 29:17
  But, mate, it was tough though.
• 29:25
  when you've got to fight for something and it's not handed to you, mate, I think that's what brings out the best in someone, you know.
• 29:35
  It's not always the good times, it's the bad times.
• 29:39
  It brings out anyone's character and will to survive, you know, and the hunger.
• 29:43
  Exactly right, you know.
• 29:45
  And I wouldn't have done it any other way.
• 29:48
  I reckon if it was handed to me too easy,
• 29:51
  I wouldn't have, the whole story of my career wouldn't have turned out how it did, you know.
• 29:55
  So I think it's an important lesson for anyone, you know.
• 29:59
  Most definitely.
• 29:59
  You've detailed there about crucially winning the 1990 Drive to Europe title, which would give you an opportunity to go back overseas.
• 30:09
  But I just want to touch on, if we can, the Formula Ford series at that stage was,
• 30:14
  would venture to Bathurst, which would feature prominently in your life, Russell?
• 30:20
  My question's a little bit loaded here, okay, because years later, Brett Crusher-Murray, who's been a publicist and around for a long time, says he can vividly recall going on a road trip with you from Sydney to Bathurst, over the Blue Mountains, and he said the moment Russell...
• 30:35
  could see the Mount Panorama sign and see the track for the first time, you changed.
• 30:41
  It was like white line fever.
• 30:43
  It had a huge impact on you, mate, didn't it?
• 30:45
  Even from those first early meetings with Formula Ford.
• 30:48
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 30:49
  And it's funny, I don't get too...
• 30:55
  No one or any situation doesn't bother me too much.
• 30:58
  I'm pretty strong-willed, as you know.
• 31:00
  Yes.
• 31:01
  Or not that I show sometimes.
• 31:04
  But it's funny that the Bathurst track alone, I've never experienced this before when you roll up to a place for the first time.
• 31:12
  It's usually all you want to do is get there, jump in the car, get out of the first practice session and start work, you know.
• 31:18
  And...
• 31:20
  And it shows you the power and the aura of the Bathurst circuit is that I remember going there, I think it happened both times, I think in 88 and 89 when I first went there for the first time in Formula Ford.
• 31:35
  We were driving to the track and started to get closer and started driving up that bit of a hill on the way to where the entrance is and that sort of thing.
• 31:43
  I started getting nosebleeds.
• 31:44
  Really?
• 31:45
  Yeah.
• 31:45
  And I thought, what?
• 31:47
  It's a bit odd.
• 31:48
  And the first time it happened, I thought, ah, maybe just, I don't know, maybe it's the height.
• 31:53
  Amylane's pretty low, you know, so maybe it's, I don't know.
• 31:56
  So I didn't pay.
• 31:57
  But the second time I went, this is really odd.
• 32:01
  And, you know, like I said, my mechanic, Bobby, looked at me and going, what's going on with you?
• 32:05
  You've got some sort of disease.
• 32:07
  I said, oh, fuck it.
• 32:09
  Never had it before.
• 32:10
  Never, never at any stage.
• 32:13
  But when someone smacked me in the nose a few times, I've got a few nosebleeds.
• 32:16
  But apart from that, yeah, and all it was was just the anxiety, nerves as well, especially when you're going to a place like that.
• 32:26
  And, again, it was one of those things, young guy, you know, trying to make a career, realise the enormity of anxiety
• 32:34
  We're about to go.
• 32:35
  Yes, you're not in the touring car race, but you're in front of all of those guys, the importance of doing well, winning, you know, and, yeah, just bloody goddamn nosebleed.
• 32:44
  I can't believe it.
• 32:46
  But it obviously stopped after that.
• 32:49
  But it stopped, but the nerves were still there.
• 32:52
  I remember right through to the Castro days of rolling,
• 32:56
  rolling in there and the first days with Larry, every time you'd roll into Bathurst and it was just, man, your heart would just go up to about 200 beats a minute and you'd feel the nerves and only that place, only that one place.
• 33:12
  So, you know, it's not like you'd roll into Winton or anywhere like that again, but that joint there, man, it's, yeah, it was quite extraordinary really.
• 33:33
  The world's fastest go-kart is the all-electric Daymax C5 Blast.
• 33:38
  It's made in Canada and it can go from 0 to 60 mph in just 1.5 seconds.
• 33:44
  The next four to five years would focus very heavily on Europe, but your wife, who's an amazing photographer, and people can follow her on Instagram, will cover a little bit of her stuff in Europe and some of the people she worked and photographed over there in a moment.
• 34:00
  But she shared a photo recently, Russell, of you, VL Commodore, Bob Forbes, Kevin Bartlett, 1990.
• 34:09
  What was that like?
• 34:11
  Well, Wally Storey, who was engineer for the GIA team and Bob Forbes, he was a big Formula Ford advocate.
• 34:20
  Raced himself.
• 34:22
  Wally Storey was a fast racer on his own, worked on his own gear, used to make his own Formula Ford, and he really knew –
• 34:32
  what it took to be competitive in Formula Ford.
• 34:35
  And he really appreciated that.
• 34:38
  And I think after winning the championship, he was –
• 34:43
  he said, yeah, and I used to look to him for advice on a lot of things and set up and he'd freely give it, you know, which was great because we didn't know everything about it because going from karts to former Ford, something with suspension and all of a sudden you've got all these different dynamics going on and going, oh, jeez, this is a bit harder than a go-kart to set up.
• 35:01
  And so he gave us a lot of advice on it.
• 35:04
  So I think he knew and he pushed my barrier to getting that drive.
• 35:09
  And then, you know, it was rolled up there and it was such a deep end from going from a Formula Ford because the LVL Commodores, look, it was a great era of racing, but trust me, they weren't the best things to drive because they had...
• 35:25
  They had that.
• 35:26
  And I'm talking across the board here, not just a VL Commodore.
• 35:29
  I mean, I'm sure all the makes were the same, but they had that bird bar thing on the back, no aero.
• 35:33
  The things were loose as hell.
• 35:35
  Like, they had a tonne of horsepower.
• 35:36
  You're sitting in this seat in a big old gear shift H-pattern.
• 35:40
  It was massive.
• 35:42
  And then you go to Bathurst.
• 35:44
  So you've got no experience in a touring car.
• 35:49
  You used to cars that actually handle.
• 35:51
  This thing did neither.
• 35:53
  And... Loads of power.
• 35:55
  Yeah, loads of power and one of the most daunting racetracks in the world.
• 35:58
  You know, what could go wrong?
• 36:00
  So it was – but it was great.
• 36:02
  He really helped me, you know, to get up to pace and obviously with, you know, had KB there and it was in the end we ended up going – we went pretty well, you know, but it was – it also –
• 36:18
  made up my mind, that race there in particular, and totally loved it.
• 36:22
  And a lot of people didn't realise I raced Bathurst because I sort of only did that one race and then went overseas.
• 36:27
  They thought my touring car career started in 95 when I did the co-drive with Larry.
• 36:34
  But it actually, not too many people know about the 90 Bathurst.
• 36:36
  It sort of flew under the radar a bit, you know, because obviously there was, you know, all the legends were there and we flew under, you know, we were just part of the show rather than being the show.
• 36:47
  And, yeah, so it was – but that also made up my mind that I wanted to go overseas because with no disrespect to that era of racing and that, I was going from proper race cars to the touring cars, which were a hybrid of a road car and a race car.
• 37:09
  And I enjoyed it, but I thought –
• 37:11
  I'm not ready for this yet.
• 37:13
  Like, like, yeah, the, the, really enjoyed it.
• 37:16
  The race was great.
• 37:17
  Brought her home.
• 37:19
  Everything was good.
• 37:20
  Um, but, um,
• 37:23
  I was still following the Formula One dream.
• 37:25
  So that sort of reaffirmed my position that I want to go overseas and chase this.
• 37:31
  I don't want to stay here and race during cars.
• 37:35
  So that was the call I made and that was sort of like really the stamp then I went, yep, okay.
• 37:41
  I definitely know what I want to do now.
• 37:42
  And typical you, your first year in British Formula Ford, which is seen as the benchmark, you know you have to make an impact straight away.
• 37:50
  It can't be the, I'll spend this year learning and then I'll be right in 92.
• 37:55
  Russell, am I right in saying you went within five points of winning the title or something in that first year, didn't you?
• 38:00
  Yeah.
• 38:00
  Yeah, in 90, yeah.
• 38:02
  And it was, again, I liken it to the karting when I went to Europe and did those couple of rounds of the European Championship.
• 38:10
  It was the same, going from Formula Ford in Australia, which was very competitive.
• 38:15
  But then I went to England and it was like, well, Jesus.
• 38:21
  It was out of control because you've got to remember over there, everyone's trying to be a Formula One star that's in Formula Ford.
• 38:30
  and you've got the best in the world all sort of congregating to UK because UK was the hub.
• 38:39
  If you wanted to make it Formula 1, you had to go to UK and do Formula 4, F3...
• 38:45
  And then you can start going out to the series in Europe, like Formula 3000 then was the category below F1, but they had a lot of European, but UK was it.
• 38:55
  So you got all these mad Italians and French and Spanish and American, and they're all there.
• 39:05
  Every country's represented racing Formula Ford, knowing this is where I kick off trying to get to Formula 1.
• 39:13
  And they're all as mad as cut snakes and they're all trying to kill you.
• 39:16
  And so rocking over to the atmosphere, and there wasn't just one, you know, you know how you get a championship and there's probably a handful of guys.
• 39:24
  You really know that's my competition.
• 39:27
  This was the whole field, you know.
• 39:29
  And so that first year, and you're right, I mean, we had...
• 39:34
  I went over there, I sold everything we had.
• 39:36
  So I had a Ford panel van, my trailer.
• 39:43
  I had a speedboat that I built and never even got to use because I really like water skiing.
• 39:49
  We used to go up Murray Bridge all the time, water skiing.
• 39:52
  Never even used a thing.
• 39:53
  I sold every single thing I had, my 90 Formula Ford, everything I owned.
• 40:01
  cashed in my, I took it, I don't know why I was captain safety back then, but I somehow got conned into an A&P life insurance thing as well when I was doing my apprenticeship as a motor mechanic and I cashed that in.
• 40:14
  And so we're talking everything, Greg.
• 40:17
  All on the line, Russell, all on the line.
• 40:19
  I had a bag, a toolbox, a bag.
• 40:23
  And I remember this distinctly, we rolled up at Heathrow Airport, right, beginning of 1990, Heathrow Airport with a, sorry, beginning of 91, with a toolbox, my mechanic, and a
• 40:38
  That was it.
• 40:39
  We had the bags, had enough cash in the bank to pay for the first year and that was it.
• 40:45
  And we're standing there going, rightio, what do we do now?
• 40:49
  Okay, well, we've got to find Van Diemen because they've done a deal with them.
• 40:53
  Van Diemen said, okay, for winning the championship in Australia, we'll give you a car and our factory workshop to work out if we run the factory duckums team.
• 41:03
  But you have to come up with a budget to run it for the year.
• 41:07
  I go, okay, let's do it.
• 41:09
  So we went out there.
• 41:11
  We grabbed a car, went up to Thetford, up to Van Diemen's, to the main factory.
• 41:20
  Nowhere to stay.
• 41:21
  We bugged out with a couple of mechanics for a couple of days, found a place to rent.
• 41:27
  Just a little dog box, there was about five of us living in there, just sharing the joint.
• 41:32
  And that was it.
• 41:33
  So we rolled up there, literally, that's what we had, a toolbox and a couple of suitcases.
• 41:37
  And that was our whole possessions.
• 41:40
  Everything else had gone.
• 41:43
  Every single dollar that I had was going to pay for that year.
• 41:47
  I picked up a local sponsor in Bradshaw Vehicles who make electric vehicles or those little buggies you see around the airports.
• 41:55
  They were made locally at Peterborough.
• 41:57
  So I picked them up.
• 41:58
  And I think that was for like, I think he was like £5,000 or something.
• 42:02
  And he gave us a little van to drive around in.
• 42:06
  And that was it.
• 42:08
  That was the first year in 91.
• 42:10
  So, again, it comes down to this thing.
• 42:13
  This is it.
• 42:14
  I've just sold up every position I own.
• 42:16
  I'm plugging everything into this.
• 42:18
  If I don't do any good and it's over in a year,
• 42:22
  I go back to Adelaide, back living with dad and back repairing cars.
• 42:26
  You know, that's what the life's going to turn out to be.
• 42:28
  So I thought, OK, well, best we get into this.
• 42:31
  They talk about risk-reward, Russell.
• 42:33
  That really was all on the line.
• 42:35
  And you've always been streetwise, mate.
• 42:37
  You correct me if I haven't quite got the year right or the story right.
• 42:41
  But I want to say the Duckhams team, the factory team,
• 42:45
  there was a wall between your factory and theirs.
• 42:49
  And I think, Julia, it might have been just the right size to sort of sneak through the air conditioning duct and have a bit of a look-see what the factory team were up to in order to give you the latest info.
• 42:59
  It's something like that, isn't it?
• 43:00
  You did everything you possibly could.
• 43:02
  Ah, yeah.
• 43:03
  Well, look, we were... Yeah.
• 43:06
  I think it's safe enough to talk about this now.
• 43:08
  I don't think I'm going to go with this now.
• 43:09
  I think Ralph Furman, who owns Van Damen, he's moved on.
• 43:13
  But we, yeah, look, the factory team ran off a building right next to where the manufacturing was.
• 43:19
  So all the Van Damens, a Formula Ford 2000s, Formula Fords, everything they made, they distributed throughout the world was made next door.
• 43:29
  And there was, there was a brick wall up and there was a little sort of like a heating vent down the base where we worked on the cars.
• 43:39
  So they were a normal set up where you had your cars in little bays, you know.
• 43:42
  Yep.
• 43:43
  And we had the keys to the joint, of course, because we used to go back there at night at working.
• 43:47
  And there was a massive rivalry between ourselves and the factory Duckham's team.
• 43:53
  and the guy Putty, they called him, who ran the Duckhams team because he suddenly realised I've got a bit of a challenger on my hands because the Duckham teams won every year.
• 44:02
  Duckham team, if you got the factory Duckhams drive, it was like getting, it was like being the Mercedes of Formula 1.
• 44:10
  That was the drive to get and Mark Goosens was the driver then and he was a factory-backed Malibu driver and yeah,
• 44:18
  And we were so bucks down and we were given the championship a nudge.
• 44:24
  Like we were winning this thing, much to their domain.
• 44:28
  Ralph Fuhrman, who owned Van Diemen, loved it because there was this real push that we were pushing ourselves so hard that it pushed us ahead of everyone else and all the other factory teams.
• 44:39
  So, yeah, there was this little opening event and we were running out of money fast.
• 44:43
  So anything we could save.
• 44:46
  brake pads, discs, all that sort of thing.
• 44:48
  So what we used to do is, uh, I, I tried to send Julie through once and she got a bit spooked.
• 44:54
  So I ended up having to go through cause I was a lot skinnier back then.
• 44:57
  And, uh,
• 44:59
  Yeah, so Russell Atkinson, who was my mechanic, he used to be the lookout.
• 45:03
  And so once the factory cleared out, I used to crawl through this hole in there, go into the factory, and then that way we could have a look around, scout around, pitch the brake pads, because there was just thousands of them, so we used to rearrange everything so they wouldn't feel it was missing.
• 45:19
  And then we would have a...
• 45:20
  We'd have a little stash hole in that.
• 45:22
  So, you know, brake fluids and anything we could get, any consumables, all right, that we could get through there, we'd get.
• 45:28
  And this went on all year.
• 45:31
  I think Ralph Furman knew what we were up to.
• 45:34
  Because we were doing all right, I think he let it go because they must have been doing stock takes and going, Jesus Christ, we're going through a lot of brake discs and brake pads here.
• 45:41
  But, yeah, so we used to get all that out.
• 45:44
  But we had to.
• 45:46
  Because to compete where they were, you had to keep throwing parts at it.
• 45:51
  You had to keep throwing the best you could, brakes, discs, fluids, engines.
• 45:57
  So, mate, it's what you had to do.
• 46:00
  If you didn't do that, we weren't going to be competitive.
• 46:03
  So just did it.
• 46:05
  And mate, that was only part of it.
• 46:07
  Probably some I can't tell you.
• 46:11
  Again, it was that Adelaide thing, you know, Adelaide boy growing up.
• 46:14
  Yeah, just do what you had to do, mate.
• 46:16
  But, you know, we only just missed out on the championship in the first year that year.
• 46:22
  But that's what led on to other things in the F3 deal.
• 46:26
  But that was a big year.
• 46:27
  But again, it was, let's just do this.
• 46:30
  Let's just do it, you know.
• 46:31
  Yeah, so be it.
• 46:33
  Exactly.
• 46:33
  You would win it in 93 with a dominant year, Russell.
• 46:37
  We'll get to that shortly.
• 46:38
  But you've...
• 46:39
  You've alluded to it there a moment ago because a window opens to get from England into Europe to another class of racing as well.
• 46:49
  And it exposed you to some of the great tracks of Europe, some big names that were around then too.
• 46:56
  And this is not sort of widely known, this aspect of your career, is it?
• 47:01
  No, no.
• 47:02
  It was an interesting sort of period where I sort of was jumping around a little bit and
• 47:10
  I thought I'd be doing another year of Formula Ford, but in 92, I met a – well, three Van Damans.
• 47:18
  I got introduced to a German team who used to deal with Ralph Furman and Van Daman and Horst Schubel.
• 47:26
  And he was a factory – a semi-supported Opel team.
• 47:31
  I used to run the Jagermeister cars, those orange Jagermeister cars in the DTM.
• 47:36
  When DTM was like in a bit, that was the category in the world just down from F1.
• 47:43
  Yeah, so we ended up striking a deal.
• 47:46
  I went over and did a test and striking a deal to run F3 in the German Formula 3 championship.
• 47:52
  And the German Formula 3 championship was just awesome, you know, and yeah.
• 47:56
  you know, Sasha Masson and there was some serious, serious competitors in it.
• 48:03
  And I think the German F3 championship was widely regarded as a place to go, again, if you're still trying to make do of the Formula One thing, but also for DTM or sports car racing in particular in Europe, which was huge.
• 48:19
  which Mark Webber raced, you know, that the German F3 Championship was a great breeding ground for those avenues.
• 48:25
  I thought, man, I can't pass this up.
• 48:27
  I would love to do another year of Formula 4 and try and win it.
• 48:32
  But it was too good an opportunity and it was a big jump.
• 48:37
  Never driven an F3 car before.
• 48:40
  I drove a Vauxhall Lotus a couple of times for Martin Donnelly when I was in England in 91.
• 48:44
  But it was a massive move and, again, a country change.
• 48:49
  So we've been a couple of years in England.
• 48:51
  Uh, and then to head over to Germany, which is just that.
• 48:56
  And it's alone, you know, so you go into a country, um, we drove over there, took the ferry across, took whatever we had left, um, um,
• 49:05
  Parked up and we got a little apartment that got organised for us, which was under a house of this old couple in Germany.
• 49:10
  Couldn't speak English.
• 49:12
  So no one in the town hardly spoke English.
• 49:15
  So you've got a different country, different culture.
• 49:18
  It was all cool.
• 49:20
  We just relished in it, though, because I like that sort of stuff.
• 49:23
  Julia loved it, you know.
• 49:25
  And she shouldn't be underestimated in this whole deal because she's the one that had to do the crappy jobs in England and work in pubs and all the rest of it to keep us in food.
• 49:38
  I'll tell you a quick one because we're talking about after corruption, but she used to work in one of those little pubs in England, one of those quaint little low-ceiling pubs, you know, very cool.
• 49:48
  Beautiful, old school.
• 49:49
  And that's where everyone, old school, you know, had five-pound schnitzel nights and stuff like that.
• 49:54
  So she was a waitress in one of those for most of the year and because, I mean, we just used to eat cheap and nasty.
• 50:01
  So once a week we used to go down there, but she was a free-for-all, so we'd order the biggest steaks.
• 50:07
  Yeah.
• 50:08
  And Russell Atkinson, who was a mad smoke, he used to grab packets of smokes and everything, but Julie used to ride out the bill.
• 50:13
  Hence the bill wasn't probably as high as what it should have been.
• 50:17
  So five-pound schnitzel night was pretty damn cheap, I can tell you, considering how much we loaded up.
• 50:21
  But anyway, so like I said, she was a big part of this whole deal.
• 50:26
  So we move over to Germany.
• 50:28
  Just fantastic because, again, it's that level thing.
• 50:32
  You go there, big workshops.
• 50:34
  The level of preparation, we're talking big Pantex and B-Doubles and all the rest of it for these Formula 3 teams.
• 50:43
  All the major manufacturers, there was Mercedes, Volkswagen, Opel were all sponsors, engine sponsors of a lot of the teams there.
• 50:52
  And they used to follow the DTM championship.
• 50:54
  So we're talking, you know, I think at the Norris Ring, close to where we lived, you know, it was 130,000 spectators rolled up on the weekend.
• 51:03
  And it was just to go from UK was one thing, and then you go there and it was just next level stuff again.
• 51:12
  And there we were, right in the middle of it, you know, and we followed the DTM championship.
• 51:16
  So you went to all these cool tracks and Arvis, which was an airport,
• 51:21
  And they used to market it with hay bales.
• 51:23
  And so you went off and on access roads and then on the main strip of this airfield, just all these cool places.
• 51:30
  And it was just phenomenal but tough because Formula 3 was hard.
• 51:36
  And, again, it was one of those things where I was getting kicked around a bit and went, Jesus, you know, I'm not sure about this.
• 51:44
  And we probably didn't.
• 51:47
  not pulling out the equipment card, but we definitely didn't have the best of the factory stuff.
• 51:51
  And that was hard, but that was one of the toughest years because I thought this could break me, you know, if I did start pulling out some results.
• 51:58
  Unfortunately, towards the end, we did.
• 52:02
  And that kept me in the game again.
• 52:05
  But it also was probably one of the biggest mistakes I made in my career in leaving that championship.
• 52:19
  That's the end of part one of my podcast with Supercars champion and Bathurst winner Russell Ingle.
• 52:24
  This is a three-parter and they're all in the library ready to go now, so don't worry, we haven't staggered the releases on you.
• 52:31
  Make sure you head back and hit the gas on the next instalment.
• 52:35
  Part two's a ripper and includes a chance meeting with the great Ayrton Senna, the Stone Brothers Ford chapter and the part his cheeky mate Barry Sheen played.
• 52:45
  Very funny PR stunt that ended up on the front page, plus the enforcer tag, the upsides and the burdens of his famous nickname.