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World | Eden's Shore by Oisín Fagan | Review · Bookies' Favourite

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I'm Aaron, You might know me from bookies.
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The novel series. Where the story continues.
1:21
Welcome to the club bookies favorite book club.
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We're back to continue our chapter by chapter.
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Read along of Eden Shore by Ashim Fagan.
1:29
This episode we're discussing part three world.
1:33
Previously, we discussed the first two parts in this
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adventure epic. If you haven't listened to
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those, then you should go back and listen.
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Next episode, we'll be speaking to the author, Ashin Fagan, so
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send in your questions for him. Our e-mail address is
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bookiesfavoritebookclub@gmail.com and that is favorite with AU.
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I'm Aaron and I am sitting at a desk underneath a tree on a dead
2:00
giant cephalopod on a bridge over the Atlantic Ocean.
2:05
It's very specific. That is very specific.
2:10
I love this chapter. This chapter is absolutely tiny.
2:15
It is 4 pages long. It is so small compared to how
2:20
giant the rest of this book was and this chapter is unlike any
2:26
other. It.
2:28
Is it real? Is it not real?
2:31
Does it take place in the same timeline?
2:33
Is it like an alternate reality? I'm really excited to jump into
2:38
the conversation with you. I'm Lucy and I grew a spine.
2:42
And like Aaron says, it's not similar to any of the other
2:48
parts of the book. And it has like an almost
2:50
dreamlike quality to it, which I'm kind of almost kind of
2:56
magical realism. Not maybe not even realism part
2:59
of that, just magical kind of feel to it.
3:01
It's a really lovely way to end the book, like a really nice and
3:04
we were both saying this earlier.
3:06
Well, Aaron said it first, but I was thinking it, but he said
3:09
that he wished that this chapter was longer.
3:11
And I, I do too. I think it's like it's, I use
3:14
this word so much when I'm describing things that are
3:17
Shane's written, but I just think it's beautiful really.
3:20
It's really lovely. It it is absolutely beautiful.
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There's so many layers to this chapter that for it being so
3:28
short, I think this is the one that I understand the least.
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And that's like the others, I already was struggling to
3:36
completely comprehend. And so that is a feat that this
3:41
is the most confusing chapter it.
3:45
Definitely is it's like you think you're kind of like, oh, I
3:49
maybe understand it slightly and then I feel like the next line
3:53
it's like, Oh no, can't you kind of go oh, is this is this a
3:56
dream? And you're like, Oh, no, no,
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don't think so. That that sounds real.
3:59
And then every stop and you're like, oh, is she dead?
4:01
And then you're like, oh, but would would that happen?
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I don't know. Yeah.
4:05
It's interesting. To start us off, here is a quote
4:08
from WORLD. A rider crosses the sea, hooves
4:15
dashing water, and then he crosses the bridge and then the
4:18
plains, and then he rides into town.
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A peel squid sits upon a chestnut mirror and he is
4:25
dressed as a European Cossir. He wears high leather boots.
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He wears a long black coat. He wears a black tricorn with a
4:34
gold treaded rim. He wears his tentacles tucked
4:37
into his shirt so they look like a row of cravats.
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He dismounts and tries to speak, but his mouth only pops and
4:44
suckles and hisses. Ya Yan offers him a roasted
4:48
chicken. He devours it with the puttering
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tubes in his face. He pulses his face Into
4:55
Darkness, and then he pulses his colour into paleness again.
5:00
Grease strips from the swelling sacks beneath his eyes.
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He hands Yayen A sealed message. He rides away.
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Mr. Squid grew a spine, the message says.
5:15
Spoiler warning from this point onwards if you haven't read the
5:18
book and you're planning to come back to this discussion after
5:20
you've done so. So this chapter and I, I'm
5:25
excited to hear your interpretation of the plot.
5:28
But our protagonist throughout this entire chapter is Isa, and
5:34
she is living in a town with the villagers that she grew up with.
5:42
But as far as we know, a lot of them are dead.
5:46
But in this chapter, everyone seems to be alive.
5:50
She seems to be married to Atta or at least in some kind of
5:53
partnership. That's what I interpreted
5:55
because they're hunting together.
5:58
I didn't interpret that, but I could be wrong.
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Well, I interpreted that because she's hunting with him at the
6:05
start and then he disappears, he goes missing and she goes
6:09
searching for him. This search leads her.
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Basically, the ocean gets drained and there's a stone
6:17
bridge across the Atlantic Ocean.
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So she just starts walking for days and days and days.
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She encounters Angel, who seems to be working at a desk on a
6:28
dead cephalopod. And then the water starts to
6:34
come back into the ocean and they see themselves from or she
6:42
sees the characters from chapter 1 from see, but now they're
6:48
seeing it from a different perspective.
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And then she goes into the sun. Yeah, pretty much.
6:56
So I think maybe this is where why I didn't interpret them
7:01
being in a relationship. I I interpreted ISA as being a
7:04
child again. Oh, I was, I was thinking maybe
7:07
she's a child again too, because in the yes.
7:11
Because she, yeah, because the character in chapter 1 that's
7:14
with the crucified man is a is a child.
7:16
So I'm assuming it's Isa prior to her to the ship coming in and
7:24
she's seeing the ship come in and this is her time where she's
7:27
cast out with the village. I don't know the relevance of
7:31
Atta or Atta in that well. It was everyone.
7:38
If she's a child, that means that this all took place before
7:42
Yeah C or during C, which we hadn't been introduced to ESA
7:48
yet, or her town. So that explains why everyone's
7:51
alive. What I'm thinking more is why is
7:54
he? Because she's following him on
7:57
this bridge and he's ahead of her and she keeps asking
8:00
everyone she meets. Did you see meets one person?
8:04
Does she not? Does she not ask someone else?
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She asks someone. Oh, she does, as she's walking
8:09
through the town, in the plains, on the beach.
8:12
And then she asks. But he's always ahead of her.
8:14
And I didn't get rid of into that.
8:16
I don't think she sees him, does she?
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No, but she's told by Angel that he's.
8:21
That he was walking an octopus on a leash.
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Yeah. And then she's also told by the
8:29
son that he's the son he's with. So this is maybe how I
8:34
interpreted it. And I don't know.
8:36
I've got two ways that I've interpreted it, but I
8:40
interpreted it as Asa's dad and. I interpreted that too.
8:45
The yes, OK, that's good, I'm happy with that.
8:48
And I interpreted that because she feels one of the big reasons
8:52
that she feels guilt about the whole village thing is because
8:55
of Atta ABBA is the only guy, the only person that she meets
9:00
again later in life who tells her it's her fault.
9:03
So I imagine probably in her consciousness, he's a massive,
9:07
massive character. And then something and just the
9:12
way she's kind of, she sees night time and she goes through
9:15
it and the idea that maybe night time isn't this bad thing, it's
9:20
the sun kind of like end of life.
9:24
And then my other thing that I was thinking, did Angel write
9:27
the letters? That's what I interpreted
9:30
because he's writing messages, I think is how he's described
9:34
sitting at the desk writing messages.
9:36
And there's only one message present in this entire chapter,
9:39
which is. Mr. Squid grew spine.
9:42
Mr. Squid grew spine. There's OK so many questions I
9:46
do. So either this is my
9:49
interpretation, either she's already dead throughout this
9:52
entire chapter and this is her proceeding to the afterlife
9:59
that's her, or she isn't dying but she dies when she walks into
10:06
the sun at the end. Maybe she is dying throughout.
10:10
Maybe she's in the process of dying.
10:13
But my thing of the whole thing is, is that, so I had that view
10:19
when I was reading it. And then the idea that she sees
10:22
the ship come over and she's the girl on the, the, the, the weird
10:28
boat thing. That's kind of where we're at.
10:30
Because there's a tree, there's a crucified man and she's there
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and then she can see them looking at her.
10:36
But she wouldn't have known that, do you know what I mean?
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So if it's her dying and her subconscious memory, it would
10:41
have to be in some way infused with Angel.
10:44
One of the things that I found interesting was I went back and
10:47
reread that part from C where the characters on the Atlas come
10:54
across the hollow one, which we have now found out is ESA and
11:01
Angel. But they're not on a ship,
11:04
they're on a dead giant cephalopod.
11:08
Yeah, I was kind of picturing a squid because we're kind of in
11:11
the OR or an octopus because we're in that kind of area.
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Mr. Squid, he's grown a spine. OK, so So what they are on is
11:22
Mr. Squid. I I don't know because he's
11:25
dead, but he's grown a spine. Is is he dead, Mr. Squid?
11:31
So OK, there's so many things I I like, I really have no like as
11:36
tough as it is to like pick a thread you want to follow in any
11:40
of these other chapters. It's very difficult to do with
11:43
this one. One of the other key points that
11:45
I've noticed about Angel is he has fulfilled his role that has
11:52
been foreshadowed throughout the rest of the book where he now, I
11:58
think, is transporting people to the afterlife.
12:02
And we have been told multiple times, does an Angel carry?
12:06
Has an Angel ever carried people down to nighttime?
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And Angel says before Issa leaves, he says, do you want me
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to carry you down? And she says no, I believe.
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Oh, OK, I didn't so much. Yeah.
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Would you like me to take you down before I go?
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No thank you. Goodbye.
12:35
Oh wait, who says that? Oh, ASA says that to Angel.
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Oh, would you like me to take you down off the crucifix?
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Oh yeah. But also, where'd the crucifix
12:46
come from? This is what this is what?
12:49
Because it's clearly like a dream or something coming out of
12:52
someone's mind. Because I imagine it's like, you
12:55
know, one of those dreams where you're like, oh, there's a man
12:57
writing at a desk and the next time you turn around, he's on a
13:00
crucifix. That dream happens to everyone
13:03
like. Whenever I went back to sea and
13:06
reread that part, the crucified man is missing an eye.
13:10
Angel's not missing an eye, but Flores is.
13:13
So have they like body swapped? Could it be like because it's
13:20
her memory or something, all something to do with her brain,
13:24
like her brain is making this up.
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It's making this. Could she got get mixed up or I
13:31
don't think she would. Does she like she'd like Flores
13:34
more? I think.
13:35
But also that's not from her perspective.
13:38
That's from Angel's perspective, NC that he sees that the man is
13:43
missing an eye. Like that's not described in
13:46
this chapter that Angel's missing an eye.
13:48
It's described in that chapter that in C that the crucified man
13:53
is missing an eye and his legs, which it's it's never comes off
13:57
in this that she's that he's missing his legs.
13:59
Yeah, yeah, because what? Yeah, so wild.
14:04
Like I wonder why as well Flores isn't in this.
14:08
The main character that I'm wondering why they're not in
14:11
this is Marianne Lynch, because so far Marianne Lynch has been
14:15
the only character that has been in every single chapter and he's
14:20
not in this one. He's Mr. Slit.
14:23
Oh. Maybe he is because we did have
14:26
the theory that he's a puka that can shipshift into animals, so
14:31
maybe he is. I think that Brazil or I guess
14:39
Brazil or wherever we have been this entire time is the other
14:43
world maybe so the other world, I didn't know what it was.
14:48
Uh, AI told me that in Celtic mythology, there's the other
14:54
world, which in Irish mythology has different names, including
15:01
Tiernanog. To me that the riding from the
15:05
water on a horse and returning to the water on a horse isn't
15:11
it? Austin is the main character and
15:14
turning out that story. I think so, yeah.
15:16
It's Austin and Neve. They'll ask him about it.
15:19
Yeah. Is that you coming out of the
15:23
water on the bridge? Is he a squid?
15:26
But we'll have to to ask Austin if he's he's actually a squid.
15:30
Yeah. Why do you think it was a squid?
15:34
And why do you think he was dressed as a British, whatever
15:38
he was? So how I interpreted that stuff
15:43
was the bridge I imagined was like a metaphorical way of
15:48
saying that that bridge that has formed between the old and the
15:52
new world and it's bringing things across it that may not be
15:59
for the best. When the the writer comes from
16:03
across the sea and he's a pale squid.
16:05
I kind of took it as like a maybe a slightly racial
16:10
component to the fact they've maybe not seen many white people
16:12
before and there's this pale thing that's not quite human to
16:17
them maybe. And can't speak.
16:19
Yeah, Yeah. I thought everything that was
16:22
used was like a really what do you do you say anthropomorphic
16:27
or really other way like like animalizing a human on all the
16:32
things where things apart from like they're saying like like he
16:35
divorced it from a tube in his face.
16:37
I mean technically a mice. Do you know, like, I mean, if
16:42
we're going on technicalities, it's not how the words, the
16:45
language that we would use for humans, but could be applied.
16:48
Also, if we remember back, Isa to as part of her maturation
16:55
ceremony had to find a sick animal to care for.
17:00
So did she see the Europeans as animals?
17:07
Yeah. Is that why she looked after
17:10
them? Because she actually thought
17:12
that they genuinely weren't human?
17:15
And is that now why she sees these people are this person
17:19
who's come here as a squid? Because she doesn't actually
17:23
think that they're human. I've not said because I always
17:26
kind of saw it as like she was interpreting the rules of her
17:29
maturation ceremony and kind of opening them and widening them.
17:32
But yeah, I think like, she could see a helpless animal in
17:36
these two men. But then I suppose, yeah,
17:40
because they would both have been different races from her.
17:42
So she might have been like, I don't know, I've never been a
17:50
person who's not, who's just been introduced to a new race at
17:54
the age of 12. Again, this might be taking us
17:58
down a route before we've even finished talking about
18:03
something, but one of the most notable things that I figured
18:07
out about this chapter is we don't have any quotation marks
18:12
for when anyone speaks, but we do in all the other chapters.
18:17
I didn't notice that. Why is that I?
18:21
Think it's because it's a dream, because I think that when it
18:24
goes into Verrato's stuff, does he have, you know, when he's
18:29
kind of when it goes to nighttimey kind of things, I
18:32
always think it does it have. Well, just a note on nighttime.
18:36
You did say that she goes through nighttime.
18:40
From my reading, she goes over nighttime.
18:43
Yeah, because she's on the bridge and they're all below
18:46
looking up at her. Well, that can this but confuse
18:49
me because she says she comes upon nighttime.
18:52
The many silent faces turn up towards her and she walks by,
18:57
not looking down. She's on a bridge at the top of
19:01
the Atlantic Ocean that has been drained so she feels like she's
19:06
in the clouds just because it's so everything is.
19:10
The ground is so deep below her. Hmm, I wonder if we could
19:16
interpret this as the Atlas heading toward her town was the
19:25
ending of her world? Is that why it's called world?
19:29
Is that why it's basically her everything?
19:34
Yeah, is. Like she's walking to death
19:37
basically because the Atlas is on its way and.
19:43
I kind of am tempted to believe that this whole thing isn't real
19:48
and it's stitches of times in her life that are.
19:53
But she was never there. Foresee.
19:55
That's the confusing part, but. She can't have gone back in
19:58
time. I don't I don't think the stuff
20:00
that happens in this chapter, I think is pointing to the fact it
20:03
didn't happen. It's not real because nothing in
20:06
it, it can't be actually happening now because it's like
20:10
things change so quickly and you know, one second like angels at
20:14
a desk, the next second he's crucified.
20:16
Do you know what I mean? It's not like this, I don't
20:19
think this chapter. It's like a linear, this is
20:22
what's taking place currently. And also the fact that it would
20:25
create a time loop with Angel being able to to see himself
20:31
from the boat. That's, I suppose something that
20:34
I was kind of like not understanding because I'm like,
20:36
this isn't a memory for Isa. This isn't something Angel would
20:40
have communicated to you. You know, that's a kind of, I
20:45
don't, I don't know. So maybe it it is, I don't know.
20:49
But also E is definitely a child when that happens.
20:53
On Mr. Squid grew a spine. Is that what do you know when
20:59
people say oh, you grow a spine or No, people don't say that,
21:03
but they'll they'll be like, oh, you grew a spine or.
21:05
Backbone. That's exactly what because I'm
21:09
like, what am I trying to say? But yes, and growing a backbone
21:12
where you're now like standing off for yourself, you're
21:14
confident, you you like know what you want since this is the
21:19
final chapter, is the saying that ESA and all of our
21:23
protagonists have grown a backbone.
21:26
So like you have ESA who like launched this revolution.
21:34
You have Marianne Lynch, who seemed to be a good guy in the
21:40
end and saved her. You have the other characters
21:46
who made themselves martyrs. So I interpreted that
21:51
differently. I interpreted it as when Mr.
21:56
Squid has appeared for any of these squid like creatures that
22:00
they didn't think that these creatures could do anything or
22:04
cause any harm. And as my theory is that this is
22:08
a European coming from the new world, I'm thinking all of a
22:12
sudden, like angels sent this note saying almost like we've
22:16
got a spine like and it's not. But then I suppose, you know,
22:21
normally when you say someone's going to spine, it is like a a
22:23
person whose make has all of a sudden started speaking up to
22:26
themselves. But it's could that be from
22:30
their perspective, what that's like like this little make weird
22:35
creature that that's really pale and looks like it hasn't seen
22:39
the sun all of a sudden, you know, can can bite like he's
22:46
gonna attack you. Isn't is not friendly.
22:48
And this is the message that is coming to the time like these
22:56
pro creatures that Isa has taken have spines.
22:59
You know, that was my interpretation.
23:02
But then I don't think that that's, that's just how I read
23:06
it. I think, I think this is the
23:07
thing. It's like if you read it that
23:08
way, you read it that way. Maybe that's the intention.
23:11
Well question for you, why did the moon disappear?
23:17
Because we had Atta disappear, we had the moon disappear, and
23:23
then ESA finally finds the Sun and the sun is like, yeah, I
23:30
have both of them right here. Come in into me and like join
23:35
them. So This is why I interpreted it
23:39
and it's going to be completely wrong because I really, this is
23:42
just what I felt when I was reading it.
23:45
But I really felt like it was like, she's dead and she's going
23:51
towards what she thinks of is night time.
23:52
And what she thinks of is like her end, like her death.
23:57
And it's not how she's pictured it.
24:00
And it's like she doesn't think that it's right.
24:02
That's why she's like questioning the sun.
24:04
She's like this, something's wrong here.
24:07
So she's like, where are all these people?
24:10
And obviously then that would make you conclude that Dada is
24:14
dead, which is confusing. And but yeah, like she's going
24:21
into the sun. But she obviously and also could
24:24
maybe be interpreted to the fact that she's feels guilty for the
24:28
destruction of her village and she doesn't believe that she
24:31
would be going to a good afterlife per SE, like like
24:35
heaven. So she's kind of like, where's
24:37
the moon? Like where's the dark?
24:39
Where's the, you know, where's the I know the moon is like, but
24:42
it's associated with with night time.
24:45
And but she's like, where's the dark?
24:47
Where's the because she doesn't believe that she's a good
24:51
person. So she doesn't believe she's
24:52
ever she should be there. So like for her being told by
24:59
the sun, oh, what does it say? Yes, she says go away, give me
25:04
night. Like I think she thinks she and
25:08
maybe is this like the idea that Night Town is hell.
25:13
Well, Night Town is down below, but at the same time I don't
25:17
think that Ashen would give us the interpretation that all of
25:22
these per slaves have ended up in hell.
25:27
But I think, but I don't everything about Night Town has
25:33
been someone else's opinion about it.
25:36
It's never been like this. This is an actual thing that
25:38
exists and happens, or maybe it has, I can't remember.
25:41
But it's like every like a lot of the stuff is I'll drag you to
25:45
Night Town. It's used in a same way as like
25:48
hell. And I suppose the slaves are
25:51
living in their own kind of hell, so they're in, you know
25:54
what I mean? Like, there's a lot of.
25:57
I'm just, yeah, I'm just interpreting this as.
25:59
No, I, I, I really like that interpretation because it then
26:04
does at least for more Western point of view and like Christian
26:10
religion background where you have the down below, the people
26:17
who've died that go down below aren't living a good life.
26:22
But she is up above and she's taking a bridge that's above
26:25
everything that she thinks is in the clouds walking into the the
26:28
sun. And combine that with all the
26:32
other chapters that are especially in Part 1, which the
26:38
heavens were really associated with celestial beings.
26:44
So we kind of getting that's come to its conclusion here.
26:49
Have you ever read and I had to do this in school.
26:51
This is the only reason I've read this but have you ever
26:53
read? There's a play called The Royal
26:55
Hunt of the Sun. It's Pizarro going across to get
26:58
gold in from the Incan Empire and basically when he gets there
27:04
he meets Atahalpa who is the like king of the area.
27:10
This is again so bad. I read this probably close to 20
27:13
years ago. So apologies and but he meets,
27:19
he meets Ado Alpa, who is the king.
27:21
And obviously he's taking over as a Spanish person.
27:24
But Ado Alpa believes that when he died, he will be the son.
27:27
Like he is the son kind of thing.
27:30
And he can't die because the next day he's the son and he's
27:34
going to rise again. And it's like all about people
27:38
from the new, the old world, like meeting these other people
27:42
and being like these beliefs that are so different.
27:44
But he like Adel Alba believes it so strongly.
27:46
He is. And Pizarro kills him and he's
27:48
like, and he knows he's going to die.
27:49
He has No Fear. Sorry, that's a big spoiler for
27:52
if you ever go and see the play the Royal Hunt of the Sun.
27:54
But he has No Fear in death. And it doesn't matter to him
27:57
because he knows that he's the son.
28:00
So I'm thinking, is there something, maybe something about
28:03
religions in that era of like believing that the Son, which
28:08
actually kind of makes sense for anything, believing that the sun
28:10
is heaven? Yeah, I, I think that, that you
28:14
are on to something there and I was looking it up and yeah, it
28:18
seems like a lot of like Aztec and, uh, Incan religions or
28:24
beliefs had that in the afterlife.
28:29
You will go and live with the sun God.
28:31
There's definitely like a sun God in most religions.
28:34
Well just Speaking of religions and mythologies from around the
28:38
world, I did think that the bridge was almost like the
28:42
Bifrost from like Norwegian mythology, which is a bridge
28:49
that connects 2 realms and connects the real world and like
28:54
I guess the mythical world. So is this bridge connecting?
29:02
Is it almost like the Bifrost? Now I know like why on earth
29:05
would Norwegian mythology be playing into this?
29:08
But I. Just was that Swedish Carpenter?
29:11
There was a Swedish Carpenter, true.
29:15
This is, this is. And he, he maybe he built it
29:20
because he's a Yeah. Well, but this is a stone
29:23
bridge. Oh no, if he just said an IKEA
29:28
bridge. Maybe he built the desk that
29:33
that Angel is sitting at. Yes.
29:37
What I find interesting is we haven't really had cephalopods
29:42
before this. We have had jellyfish and we
29:45
have had conch shells, but we haven't had cephalopods.
29:53
The only time that just based off memory, the only time that I
29:57
can remember having any was at the start of Part 2 at the
30:07
market. One of the items being sold was
30:10
squid, but like what does that what?
30:15
You remember that? I remember that because remember
30:18
I was trying to cook food from different things and I was.
30:20
Like. They're selling a squid to do I
30:23
cook. Like.
30:24
Calamari or something? I'm sure like when Austin has to
30:31
talk to us and we have like this, you have this exact memory
30:36
of everything and he's like, I wrote this book like years ago.
30:39
I don't remember anything and you're like, well, actually you
30:42
mentioned that multiple you'll be correcting him on the book
30:47
you're. Actually wrong.
30:48
This squid that was unseal at the market at the very start of
30:53
Part 2. Why is that the the squid that
30:57
comes on the horse in world? Make that connection, tell him I
31:02
think this is it, I think and it grew spine at some point during
31:07
the the time. That's how it can hold itself up
31:11
on the horse. Yeah, definitely, definitely.
31:13
OK, let's get into the letters from Biddy Tanner in between
31:18
each chapter. This girl can't be more than 8
31:23
sending these letters. So it's eight years on it's Part
31:27
2. And then Marianne Lynch says
31:29
he's he intercepted those letters four years ago, which
31:32
means the girl's four when she's writing them.
31:34
And if we're to assume that these are the letters between
31:36
each chapter, like do you think a four year old wrote them?
31:43
It does seem very well read, Yeah.
31:45
Umm, I mean, it's very tough to decipher them.
31:50
And listening to the audiobook I think is a real benefit because
31:54
it's actually being spoken by a person rather than just trying
31:57
to decipher all these spelling mistakes and like, mix this like
32:01
Spanglish. It pains me.
32:05
No, I I would suggest I'm if if you're curious, listen to the
32:11
audiobooks for the the letters. Is she being raised by nuns?
32:19
She talks about the sister Carmen.
32:21
Yes, Yeah, Yeah, I assume she's so.
32:24
Yeah. So she must be in some town.
32:26
And Flores is living in that village, and he sent her to
32:30
what? I don't think Flores is live.
32:32
I think what we were told is that Flores went searching for
32:36
Issa during this period. So I think he put Biddy.
32:43
Biddy, obviously, is the the baby from the Scottish sex
32:49
worker at the. Biddy Tanner, senior.
32:52
Yeah, see Tanner Senior. Yeah, which we don't know what
32:57
happened to her. We can assume that maybe she
32:59
died and. She said.
33:01
They said that she'd not long left in her.
33:04
Oh yes, that she did luck a bit. It wasn't she like the ugliest
33:07
woman that Flores had ever laid his eyes on or something?
33:10
That's yeah, that was that was harsh.
33:13
Doris, come on, do better. The whole reason was that Flores
33:18
went on the search for ESA, so I think that's when he separated
33:23
from Biddy and eventually he had to give up on his search for ESA
33:27
because, uh, Biddy needed to go to school, so he needed to be
33:32
there for that. Umm, so these letters were while
33:35
he was absent. There's like Bernice.
33:39
Bernice is I think it mentioned in every letter.
33:43
Or something? Or is it?
33:44
I think it's her friend, she says.
33:45
Yeah, I like Bernice is the best friend.
33:49
Have the Jung brother who? Knee who?
33:53
Roberto. Nambe Roberto, Do they?
33:56
Yeah. Wait.
33:58
What? Yeah, then the last letter.
34:02
Her was that. What it was They're all go in
34:05
that one. OK, wait, let's see.
34:08
So that's in the first one where she talks about.
34:10
Oh, Bernice's. Is it Bernice?
34:14
Yeah. Bernice's brother.
34:16
Oh. With the sister, Carmen gets
34:17
mentioned again. This is so interesting because
34:19
we have a whole cast of characters that are only
34:23
mentioned in the letters that we never actually meet.
34:28
I mean, we don't. We hardly even meet Billy Tanner
34:32
Junior. Yeah, where I'm.
34:34
Still a bitch and page 257 jellyfish stuff she chats about
34:41
she. Talks about jellyfish, she talks
34:43
about eyes. I think she talks about eyes.
34:45
Does she? They have no eyes or something.
34:47
Yeah, they have. No, have I?
34:51
No, have I? I'm looking at the last chapter
34:56
here or not at the last letter, and she says I invent you the
35:02
very nice history for you. That's why, because I'm genius
35:06
have a gentle boy. He is always love me used to was
35:11
a good boy named Roberto, but at this hour is very annoying.
35:16
Why is she annoyed with him? Biddy, I'm so love.
35:21
Oh, he's. Saying this.
35:23
Yes, those. That's the weirdest quotation
35:25
marks I've ever seen. Yeah.
35:29
What even? I don't even know how to
35:31
describe that. That's what girls in the year
35:36
1709 wrote like to their father figures.
35:42
They used Biddy. I'm so love and you, I'm so
35:45
beautiful and so intelligent, etcetera.
35:52
That's etcetera. That's how it's that's how it's
35:56
said in the audiobook. Because the weird thing is at
36:00
the end of every she always signs off Miss Biddy Tanner,
36:04
etcetera. And I'm like, there's only one
36:07
of you. Why are you saying?
36:08
Etcetera. See, I thought that was Auntie
36:10
was Aunt Coe. It does look like Coe.
36:14
They're like the font style used for the letters is.
36:17
I mean, if this is her handwriting, she has beautiful
36:20
handwriting for a child. Yeah, wonder.
36:25
So what do you think Marianne Lynch wanted with those letters?
36:29
I don't even know what to tell you because I have no idea.
36:32
I mean, does this show that was the sister Carmen in somewhere
36:36
intercepting these letters? Like, was she like, obviously
36:40
she's the figure that is in control of these children?
36:45
Do you know what? I think that bitch Fatima, she's
36:50
been, she's been sending the letters to someone else.
36:54
Sister Carmen is obviously some religious figure or church
36:59
figure. So we know that Marianne Lynch
37:03
seems to be some kind of religious fanatic, or at least
37:08
in some ways he seems to present himself like that where he goes
37:12
to baptize Angel and then he's involved in this like, very
37:17
religious play in which they're trying to convert and baptise
37:22
all of the native people. So is he in communication with
37:28
Sister Carmen because of the religious connection?
37:32
Yeah, but it's like imagine some some you're nun OK and you have
37:37
this little school in South America.
37:40
OK and you get a phone call. Actually you won't get a phone
37:43
call. You get a letter from an Irish
37:48
like sailor who just goes see the way for a wee girl who's in
37:53
your school. Could you just give me any
37:56
letter she writes to your dad? Could you send to me first, like
38:00
as a nun? Would you like what's going on
38:03
there? No.
38:05
Because I imagine him going in person wouldn't look any better.
38:12
I think that one thing we've learned from this entire book is
38:20
that no one is completely good. So if just because somebody is a
38:26
nun who runs a school for children or looks after a bunch
38:32
of children, I don't think that means she's necessarily a good
38:35
person. Maybe, yes, she might be,
38:40
because maybe that's a way to get like actual valuable
38:43
information. No one's going to think that
38:46
like valuable. You couldn't.
38:47
But Roberto, I just, I assume, I assume that he knows the person
38:56
who works in the the post place and he sees letters going to
39:01
Flores because Flores probably doesn't have a lot of letters
39:03
going to him. He's like, I know him.
39:05
I know him. In this I'm looking still
39:08
looking at this last one and again she talks about an eye
39:13
send me messages, but I'm not read them.
39:15
He send it to me the little light in the evenings that is
39:20
senal senal for me, but close the eye marry with me have said
39:28
much times. I have respond no is not
39:31
possible in final in one day in future I'm say yes marry with
39:38
you and so do the happy history valley F stop at this hour is
39:46
very boring. Their rights is too much always
39:50
I miss you in terms of intercepting them I'm sorry what
39:55
does that mean? But I do you think that Marianne
40:04
Lynch got these letters and thought that there was a hidden
40:07
meaning because. It just seems to be a whole
40:10
bunch of mumbo jumbo. I mean he knows that it's
40:13
Flores's daughter, but is he Like what does this mean?
40:17
This doesn't make any sense. Well, I am inclined to think
40:21
that Marianne Lynch, we've kind of come to the conclusion that
40:24
he might be a bit nicer than we originally thought.
40:28
And I'm coming to the conclusion that Marianne Lynch isn't
40:30
intercepting most people's letters.
40:32
And they're all horrible and they're all plots and they're
40:35
all not nice. But this is a one example of
40:38
someone whose letters he wants to intercept, who is getting
40:42
these nice, wholesome letters. And there's some happiness
40:46
happening in this place kind of thing.
40:51
Like I, because he says, said I intercepted an exchange of
40:56
letters between Flores and his daughter.
40:58
Not only did I read their correspondence, but I confess I
41:02
kept several of the letters in my possession.
41:04
I couldn't bear to part with them, but it is time they were
41:07
returned. I'm thinking he wanted to know
41:11
what was going to happen between Betty and Roberto, and he
41:15
couldn't. He needed to keep the messages.
41:17
So we knew kind of roughly he'd remember them.
41:20
And then eventually when she says maybe she will marry him,
41:24
he's like, that story's all closed off.
41:27
He knows what's going to happen and he can give them back,
41:30
return to sender. He can be like this.
41:33
This chapter's closed for Marianne Lynch.
41:35
He knew. He knows the end of the story.
41:37
Do you know what I mean? It's like you've just read a
41:42
whole series of books and you can now give them, give them
41:46
away. Yeah, yeah.
41:49
Here's a, here's a random theory just building.
41:53
It's not building on top of what you said, but just you talking
41:57
has has given me this thought and I could be way off.
42:02
But what's the chances that Marianne Lynch is actually Billy
42:06
Tanner's father, and that's why he has an emotional connection
42:11
to these letters? That's a really good theory.
42:16
We would probably have to go back to what we know from there,
42:19
but we know we. Know that he's been a sailor and
42:24
we know, but do we know that he has been to this place before?
42:29
We have no idea. But he has connections here, but
42:33
he maybe he only gets those connections in the eight years.
42:37
But also the baby is like freshly born.
42:40
So that would have meant that he would have had to have basically
42:42
come directly from here to Europe and then returned
42:49
immediately. Well, maybe that's two.
42:53
Maybe it's not like it takes like four months for them to
42:56
travel. But how long are they there, How
43:01
long are they on the beach and how long are they in the town?
43:05
Not very long as it's like a couple of months.
43:07
Yeah. I was thinking because.
43:09
It is. I don't even Yeah, the for nine
43:13
months. But could it be something like
43:16
that? Could.
43:18
Could it? Could it be 1 of?
43:21
Could Biddy? I mean, I haven't gone way off
43:24
the edge here, but could Biddy have been on the Atlas and we
43:27
just never seen her? Or does that just not make any
43:31
sense? I don't know.
43:32
I think all the only women were slaves and she was a Scottish
43:37
woman of Scottish. Descent.
43:40
Well, it doesn't say Scottish descent until she's Scottish.
43:44
Thought it was like she she had a she spoke Spanish like she
43:48
was. She did speak Spanish, no.
43:50
Yeah, you are right. She did speak Spanish, but she's
43:53
described as a Scottish woman. I'm pretty sure she can't speak
43:56
English. You might be right.
43:59
I'm just thinking, why would Marianne Lynch have such a
44:02
strong connection of Scottish stock?
44:05
OK, just why? Why would he care so much about
44:10
Betty Tanner? Is it that that he is her
44:14
biological father? I don't like it.
44:17
I, I, I think it has legs. I don't know how we can fit it
44:21
in well, but it is strange that he keeps these letters.
44:26
Sorry I've I've gone way off the the edge here.
44:28
I'm like completely writing fan fiction.
44:31
I don't think it is. I think it it would kind of, it
44:36
would kind of make sense if it could fit in the idea that he's
44:38
being this kind of man in the shadows.
44:42
You know, and he's actually like, started a family here and
44:46
everything. He could be in love with Betty.
44:50
Senior, Senior, senior. I mean, we also never see him
44:57
interact with with Betty. But you could just the tension
45:02
was there. Well, actually it was the heated
45:05
rivalry. That's that's going to be the
45:07
second. It's going to be like another
45:10
Another version of what for Eden Shore, too.
45:13
I do have to say that based on my theory that he was the
45:16
monkey, maybe he has interacted with Billy Tanner because the
45:20
monkey was at the bar at the brothel.
45:24
True. I wish we got more of Sister
45:29
Carmen. Are these sister Carmen?
45:32
We, we can, we can really hail loshing that.
45:34
We're very upset that we didn't get more of Sister Carmen.
45:38
Well, listen to this, listen to this.
45:42
This Sister Carmen say me salute Virgin Mary hundreds time for
45:49
castigate me for have bads models.
45:55
I hope alone Why I am hurt, Papa.
45:59
Why the life's so sad? Yeah, morals maybe.
46:03
Why she is? No.
46:04
Just why Lone in the night is long.
46:09
Why you? No.
46:10
Here, Papa. That would break my heart if I
46:13
were Flores and I read the line. Why you?
46:17
No. Here, Papa.
46:19
I want to see you. But always at Bastania.
46:23
Well, I don't know if we have really got any further into
46:27
understanding the letters. No.
46:30
I mean, they like, they make sense as young girl who's
46:34
writing to her father, but we don't really understand why they
46:38
were intercepted. We don't know why Marianne Lynch
46:41
felt so attached to them. It's it's also not like he had a
46:45
specific connection with Flores. They didn't cut a sigh.
46:51
True. So he doesn't.
46:52
He is connected in that way, but like why?
46:57
It's not like their bodies, so why would he be like.
47:00
I need to keep these letters that remind me of him.
47:02
Like what Like. Yeah, I really don't know.
47:05
It's like the letters make no sense to me.
47:08
I'm no further. All right, So should we try and
47:12
give this chapter a rating out of five?
47:14
And I think we're probably going to be both saying the same thing
47:17
because I'm five, I'm five in the whole book.
47:19
I think it's a five star book and I really loved this one.
47:23
It was it was better the second time around.
47:26
I really, really enjoyed it. I don't again don't understand
47:30
it, but loved it. What about you?
47:33
Yeah, I'm, I'm also going to give this chapter 5 stars and
47:35
the book overall is a 5 out of five for me.
47:40
I know that there are people based off reviews who maybe
47:44
don't understand it or get a little bit lost or overwhelmed,
47:50
and I think that's completely justified.
47:53
You really do have to put the work in to decipher and
47:59
understand and follow what's happening with this book, but in
48:03
the most rewarding way that it actually is.
48:08
Five stars whenever you have someone to discuss it with and
48:13
you can bounce ideas and theories together to to help
48:18
each other understand. That's so true.
48:20
I think I would have felt quite alone if I'd read this book.
48:25
And because he really like, I remember when I finished it and
48:28
we were chatting about it and I was like, I'm so excited to like
48:31
have someone to talk to this, talk about this.
48:33
And it's like, sometimes you get that with books where you're
48:35
like, I've just read that and I don't know what to make of it.
48:38
Like I genuinely am like I know I've enjoyed it, but I don't
48:43
like you need to talk these things through.
48:45
I think that we've had so many like productive ideas about what
48:48
we think, and they're probably all absolute rubbish, but I
48:52
think that the experience of having those thoughts was, yeah,
48:56
it was, yeah, it's been a really enjoyable experience.
49:00
It has. And whenever we started to read
49:03
Eden Shore, first of all, I was not at all expecting that we
49:07
would end up doing an entire series, reading a chapter by
49:10
chapter. But I think that that has been
49:14
an organic, really nice idea that has come from this.
49:19
And I honestly, without this podcast, I never would have read
49:23
Eden Shore, just like I would never would have read any of the
49:25
books that that we're reading. But it's it's now 100% my
49:29
favorite book up to this point. Read along and share your
49:33
thoughts on Instagram at Bookies Favorite book club that's
49:36
favorite with AU. And you can also e-mail us
49:39
bookiesfavoritebookclub@gmail.com. Next episode we will be speaking
49:44
to Ashin Feig, and so please send your thoughts and questions
49:48
to the e-mail address that Aaron has just said.
49:52
Subscribe on whatever podcast platform you're listening on so
49:56
you don't miss the next episode. Share this episode with a book
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lover you think would like this book.
50:02
Rate the podcast 5 stars. Let's end on a final quote from
50:06
World. You have looked upon death.
50:11
Now you must look upon me. I cannot.
50:14
You're too bright. Then ESA, the sunset swelling
50:17
out to embrace her. Then you must feel the heat of
50:20
my love. Only light.
50:25
Bookies out. Thank you very much for
50:28
listening. Thank you.