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What I've Learnt - Jack Delosa · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: Jack Delosa builds businesses.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's a five times AFR young rich lifter, two times best-selling author, and the founder of Australia's largest business coaching and training provider for entrepreneurs, the Entourage.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_03: It has a community of 650,000 members.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: Since 2010, the Entourage has helped their members add over$2 billion in value to their businesses.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_03: Under his leadership, the Entourage has been awarded the fourth best place to work in Australia and the top 50 in Australasia by best places to work.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_03: Jack is also a high-profile investor, having invested into companies spanning biotechnology, luxury real estate, finance, e-commerce, food retail, recruitment, and even aviation, including one company that became known in Silicon Valley as a Unicorn, a business that goes from zero to a billion within 10 years.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: So what drives him and what what does success look like in this fickle, brave new post-pandemic world?
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'd like to welcome Jack to the What I've Learnt podcast.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: So great to see you.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Deborah.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: So good to be here.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: So you really interest me because you've crossed that boundary where you understand the role of business, investment, finances, and strategy, but also the importance of wellness and well-being.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: Can you talk to me a little bit about what drives you and how you came to this crossroad, although I'm sure it's an ongoing journey, but tell me a little bit about how you cross that bridge.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's interesting.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I probably come at business from a slightly different vantage point than most.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, my grounding and my desire to be in business comes from when I was a kid.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I was five years of age, my parents ran a not-for-profit organization called Breaking the Cycle, and they'd take long-term unemployed youth at risk, off the street, out of jail, from abusive homes.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: They put them through a three-month training program, and then they'd facilitate them into employment.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: And they would, because they could only take a finite number of, you know, young adults each year, uh, they deliberately choose those who are from the most challenged of backgrounds.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so mum was the head trainer, dad was the managing director.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: And even though they would choose, you know, people from the most challenging of backgrounds, they were the most successful training and job placement agency at what they did in the country.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's the environment I grew up in.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up in mum's classroom and learning life skills, employability skills, mindset, personal development, all that kind of stuff.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so breaking the cycle really taught me that the traditional system doesn't work for everybody.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: The world does need changing in some aspects, and the world is changeable.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Being a not-for-profit organization, they were they were reliant on government funding, government pulled the funding, the organization collapsed.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's where I get my commercial side from is, you know, I remember the age of I must have been 10 or 11, feeling this deep sense of anger and injustice.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, in the mind of an 11-year-old, it's like who determined that money was better invested elsewhere than the work that we were doing at Breaking the Cycle?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so I always wanted to build businesses that made an impact.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: For me, business is just a vehicle to take good ideas and impact into the world.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: But the collapse of Breaking the Cycle taught me that I always wanted to do it in a way that was profitable, scalable, self-sustainable.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what I do.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: I try and build great companies.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: I build them like any entrepreneur would.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: I build companies that can operate without me, that can scale beyond me, that are highly profitable, that can attract great talent from all over the world, that can, you know, spend and invest on branding and marketing and acquisition and you know, reaching more people.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's run like a hardcore business, but at the center of it is uh is a deep sense of purpose.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, nowhere is that truer than than in the entourage.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, I've I've just always been fascinated by enabling human potential and and businesses just so happens to be my vehicle to do that.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_03: I actually find it really, and you know, I mentioned to you I've just come back from India where I was with a lot of people who had a very similar outlook, which is it's all very well to have a mission, as you've as you've talked about.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_03: But at the end of the day, it has to be funded and it has to be real and it has to be grounded and it has to have a sense of purpose, but it also has to be, as you say, if it's if you rely on government only, it potentially can be quite vulnerable and it can potentially fall over, which is what happened.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I love that that story of how you took that unfortunate circumstance and and changed it to get a different lens and see how you could actually make sure there was security and stability, of which it is always a challenge, let's be honest.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's challenging enough.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, you're absolutely right, Deborah.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: That that was kind of my observation from a very young age is that, you know, I think usually people fit into one or two buckets.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: They're either in business and and the primary driver is to make money, or you know, we can find mission-driven, purpose-driven people, but perhaps aren't placing enough emphasis on the economics or the scalability of what they're doing.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, one of the things that we used to say at Breaking the Cycle was you can't run off love, trust, and pixie dust.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's saying, well, that's right.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think, I think, I think when you can have a genuine, deeply rooted purpose and mission and combine that with commercial capability, I think that's when you've got something really special.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_03: I I totally agree.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I know a few people doing that extremely well, but it requires enormous amount of energy, focus, and yes, and it does require trust from the people that are actually investing in it.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I think what you're saying is that you've made sure that it's a hybrid, wherever it can be, you try and make sure that those businesses have hybrid resources and hybrid purpose so that they actually draw on both.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: And have you found, you know, in this brave new fickle post-pandemic world that we're all sort of thriving in and surviving in, I was actually quite, I suppose, in awe of India and the way that everyone's just got on with it.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: In that madness and that craziness and that absolutely impossible to process environment, there is an overwhelming sense of, well, let's just get on with it.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_03: We can't get bogged down.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_03: And everybody's still, you know, whether it's the basic retailer or the spice market, or as you you and I were sharing, that we've both seen that the awesome things that can that are being achieved in India.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think here in the West we've got a little bogged down?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_03: And how do we how do we make sure that we come out of this pandemic with lessons learned?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_03: And what lessons have you learned through this process?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we've been through a global lesson in non-attachment, right?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh regardless of where you lived or what you did or didn't have planned over the last few years.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people planning to get married, that didn't happen.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: People planning to go traveling, that didn't happen.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: People planning to continue to grow their businesses, that didn't happen.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I just spent a week on Necker Island with Sir Richard Branson, who, you know, I've sort of spent some time with since 2010.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: And he was saying, you know, when when COVID hit, he was on Necker Island, not a bad place to be, mind you, when COVID hits, but but he was in all of the wrong businesses with regards to COVID restrictions, right?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so he said he he he even he felt really down for those first couple of weeks.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so it really doesn't matter who you are or where you were or or what you had happening.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: It was a course in non-attachment and surrender.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: I was about to say surrender, relinquishing.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: Relinquishing, right, right.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I think business owners and entrepreneurs and innovators are particularly good at that, right?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're used to it's kind of this dichotomy.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: We're used to having this strategy and this plan and this drive and this ability to uh and desire to create, but we're also used to things not going to plan.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: So we're used to iterating and changing and evolving as we go through, adapting.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, here at the Entourage, you know I've been doing Entourage for 12 years.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Prior to that, I was doing another company called MBE, which, you know, helped small to medium-sized businesses to raise money from investors.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've been working with businesses for about 15 or 16 years.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: And what we try and get them to do is develop their business in such a way they can operate without them and scale beyond them.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of the time that requires a focus on the foundations and a focus on the fundamentals.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of the time, business owners and innovators ignore the foundations and the fundamentals.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so what was interesting for me throughout COVID is I saw business owners and entrepreneurs innovate more in a two-year period than I'd witnessed in the last 13 years prior to that.
• 8:48
  unknown: Right.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: Because they were forced to, they had no choice.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: They had to.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know, as I mentioned to you, like even speaking to Bruce Keeber at the big group, a lot of the interviews I've done, there are a lot of people who were completely smashed in hospitality, or as you mentioned, I mean, I was it was on my list to actually ask you what you have learned from Richard Branson, and I knew you'd been on Necker Island.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that that is quite revelatory that you actually he was because he's in the airlines which stopped flying or traveling, and you know just gone into cruises, you know, you just spent billions of dollars on a cruise ship, like all of the worst businesses.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: So, what did he teach you when you engaged with him on that?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: How did he so it was it the surrender?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_03: Was that was that the lesson out of that?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm sure there were many, but yeah.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Richard is uh I was reflecting on this post-NECA because I knew this was a question I would be met with just from friends and team and family.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the the thing with Richard is is you just expect the unexpected.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: He he is absolutely a contrarian and so I'll I'll give you one example of that.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we were sitting over breakfast one morning and I said to him, mate, my friend Eddie says G'day, he wanted me to ask you whether you remember, you know, Richard and my friend Eddie who lives in Byron Bay had had dinner in Ray's in Byron Bay one night, and Eddie looked down to check the time and his watch was missing.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then he shortly after realized that his watch was on Richard's hand.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so Richard had actually lifted Eddie's watch and put it on it, you know, as as this sort of magic trick, as this joke.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so I said, Do you remember that?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: And he says, and he didn't tell me whether he remembered it or he says, That sounds like something I would do.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: And what followed was a story.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Richard, at one point in Virgin Airways uh life cycle, they wanted to buy a whole bunch of new Boeing 747s, but they didn't have the cash to.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so they were buying these planes, but they needed a six million dollar discount from the supplier that they were buying it off.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so Richard and his team went out and he spent a day with their team.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: They had it, they had a day of meeting and followed by dinner.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: And they were trying to negotiate the six million dollar discount.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: And the team that they were talking with said, we're not going to give you the discount.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: So they're unsuccessful in getting this discount.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: They went to dinner that night, the chairman of the supplier is there, Richard's there, everyone's there.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: And Richard says, If I can hypnotize anybody in this room in the next five minutes without anybody noticing, you guys have to give us the discount.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: They had a few drinks by this point.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: They know Richard's not a hypnotist, so they agree to it.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: They say, Yeah, no worries, all good.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Five minutes later, Richard says to the chairman, uh, what's the time?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: And the chairman looks at his wrist and his watch is missing, and he looks over and his watch is on Richard's wrist.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so they end up giving Richard and Virgin the six million dollar discount because Richard was able to do this party trick over dinner.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's fascinating, right?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because he's all he's a contrarian and he's and he's fun-loving.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: But what he said next was particularly interesting.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: He said, I had already taken the chairman's watch before I proposed the wager.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that is very indicative of Richard's approach to life and business.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when he bought his first Boeing 747 for Virgin Airways, he bought it on the basis that he could return it 12 months later if the business didn't turn out.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so what you find with Richard, and it's indicative of any great, you know, high-level iconic entrepreneur, is they're known as being extreme risk takers.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: And they are, but they're very good, and this is the less publicized kind of side of the coin, they're very good at minimizing the risk ahead of time.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so Richard said, you know, I'd already taken his watch by the time I'd tabled the wager, I'd won the game before it had begun.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Very good.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so while we're just talking, you know, it's a funny story over breakfast.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's how you learn from Richard is he just tells these stories that are often really funny and has everybody in his stoics, but underlying the story is actually something quite pertinent to how he approaches life and business.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I mean, I did actually read his uh biography, and I remember just being in awe of, you know, I mean, the story is so incredible.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: But also what I found really interesting is, and I think to your point, which we started talking about, the notion of inverted commas failure is often when we learn the most, right?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_03: And we we know that.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: And we've all been through it and we've all had, and and failure is a horror.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: I don't really like that word, but it's it is an important word because it does make make us realize that it's the lessons learnt and the ability to adapt, whether it's the pandemic, whether it's the example of, you know, when you read about Richard and all the ups and downs and he's been through and his his sort of lateral approach, even when things go left, he somehow manages to go right.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: And it's it's also courage, a lot of bravery.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: I I'd I'd say courage and bravery is his is his number one trait, you know, because I I am a student of human psychology and neuroscience and human development and consciousness, all that kind of stuff.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so and so I am often trying to figure people out for lack of a better term.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I think the main thing that makes Richard Richard is he is bold.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he he's really bold.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: And he says, you know, you just have a crack, often you'll fall flat on your face, but you'll learn from it and you just keep going.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so his approach, everything is bold.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: How a core thing, a core reason they actually were able to navigate COVID um without kind of losing any businesses, was he ended up selling a large portion of Virgin Galactic, which is his space index.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, and again, he told this over, told this over a funny story over lunch one day.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because when he when he was going into space, his board was like, You should not be doing this.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: This is not a wise investment, this is not intelligent.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then Virgin gets into real trouble during COVID.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: And Richard said, and so I rode in night on horseback with the check because I just sold part of Virgin Galactic, which they all told me not to go into.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, contrarian, bold.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_03: When everyone goes left, he goes right, and he's got a knack for making it work some of the really it is really quite an extraordinary and and what a wonderful experience that you have had, that opportunity to engage with him.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I know he does these amazing Necker Island uh experiences, I suppose, experiences one day which I will join, I hope.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that'll be great.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_03: I think the other thing is that um, you know, you do have a lot of balls in the air, and you definitely seem to, yeah, you seem very structured and you seem very focused and you seem very, it doesn't seem like there's a disconnect.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: You seem like I've watched a lot of your um conferences and the way that you speak.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think that do you ever go, okay?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I suppose Richard does the same, but do you ever go, oh, I've got so or do you just, is it like sometimes I say, and I say this sometimes to my children, you know, it's like having all of these dials.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes you turn down one, you turn up another, you turn down one, you turn up another.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: Is it is it like that for you where you see sort of a um putting words in your mouth, but I'm just saying, is it a bit like that where you go, okay, right now I'm focused on developing this aspect of my business or on myself?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: So I'll turn down something else.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_03: Is that how you see it?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Or yeah, it's definitely I definitely have core things that I'm like uber focused on at any given moment.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not so good at dialing down other areas to buy myself space.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's hard, isn't it?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and so often my eyes are are far bigger than my stomach.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, like like this year's been crazy because, you know, I was going to the States in March or April, and so for a couple of months, because we're what we've built here in Australia is, you know, in in such a great place of market leadership, and we're able to control contribute so much to so many people I'm I'm looking to create the same over in the States in the coming years.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was going there for a couple of months, and so I had you know January to March, but I tried to cram probably a year into those three months, you know, including book.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: I I I bought an island earlier in the year, in part inspired by Richard, you know, from being back on NECA back in 2014.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh core business stuff.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: We were doing big events because we're able to again.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, it it's it's interesting because I'm probably feeling more relaxed than I ever have.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: But but in truth, this year has probably been one of the busiest I've ever had.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I go to like to answer your question around like turning up and down dials, I find that one's ability to hold, whether that's projects, tasks, the humans around them, uh, their own emotions, the emotions of, you know, your capacity to hold and to and to hold with elegance, I think expands over time with practice, and particularly under tension, right?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's similar to similar to building a muscle, in my view, in that the the the longer you're in the game and the more you try and hold and try and do, the better, the better you become at it.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so rather like like like practice.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so rather than turning down, you know, all of that's a sort of really long way of getting to, rather than turning down dials, I often try and expand my capability.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_03: And so in in sort of just thinking logistically, yeah.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: So if somebody comes to you and they say, Look, I have a business, it's it's you know, it's here, I want it scaled to here, I have no idea how to get there, I don't even know if I want it.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: But how do I, how does in practice the logistics of what you do, other than obviously in the public space, but in terms of what you do in an intimate business strategy model, how how does that work?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's that's super simple.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, building businesses is not hard to do, particularly when you have a core framework, you know, and a lot of being there, done that experience and a network and a community around to help you.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so someone comes to us and they say, you know, we we we we've been running this business, we haven't grown for six years, or it's it it's generally speaking, business owners in one of three categories.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm declining, in which case I'm in trouble, I'm plateauing, in which case I've lost my spark and I'm looking for something to re-spark me and the organization, or I'm growing and I'm struggling to keep up and to hold on and to operationalize at the at the rate at which I need to.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: And and here's the thing that there's core fundamentals and methodologies that we take everybody through.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: And at the same time, every business owner is different.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: You've got different stages of life, different risk profiles, different revenue, different profitability, different cash at bank, all that kind of stuff.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you take into consideration everything that's going on for the entrepreneur, where do they want to go?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: What are their biggest objectives?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: What are their biggest challenges?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then we essentially audit their company over what we call the six elements.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so every business only does six things.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter whether you're a business-to-business company, business to consumer, online, offline, every business only does six things.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: We go out into the world and we generate interest and attention, right?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: We call that marketing.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: That interest and attention then walks through the door, often metaphorically speaking, we turn that interest and attention into a paid customer.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's sales, right?
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: We market it, we sell it.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: What do we then need to do?
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: We then need to deliver the product which we've developed.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: So the third element is product development and delivery.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the three functions that drive the growth.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: But as we're driving growth, particularly when you get to seven figures, eight figures, you need to become more conscious of the internal workings of the business, which is operations, the internal processes, the technology that underpins it all.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: We're marketing it, we're selling it, we're delivering the product, we're operationalizing it, we need to make sure that we're counting and managing money.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: So the fifth element is finance.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then the sixth element is the element that brings all of these five functions to life, which is people, you know, the culture, the leadership, the management, and the leadership cadences of the organization.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so if I sit down with you for 15 minutes and I ask you a bunch of questions across each of the six elements, we can identify exactly where the business is strong, exactly where it's weak, exactly where you're spending your time, exactly what's holding you back, and the exact core pieces of work that need to occur over the next 12 months to minimize and mitigate the challenges and to actualize the opportunities that exist inside any given business.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: And if somebody's been going along in a business without the input of seriously good coaches and advisors that are coming in with being their down experience, then in every business there are serious challenges that can be relatively easily unlocked and seriously serious opportunities that can be relatively easily realized with a little bit of strategic input and guidance.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, it it comes from the heart and the mind of the entrepreneur, auditing the company, determining where they want to go.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: And once you determine all of those things, building a 12-month roadmap to move the company forward is relatively easy.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_03: Well, to be honest, it sounds very inspirational.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm I'm I'm also interested because it's very about structure, discipline, and yet there's an organic element to it as well, which I've because clearly it's not just something you read in a book, because there's so many books on business and strategy, you know, structure and strategy.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_03: And but the real question I have also for you is do you think business has changed?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think people are rethinking, which we know, how they want to work?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_03: And therefore, how does that feed what you've just outlined?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_03: Has that have you noticed?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: That transition?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: Is there a transformation?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, we've talked about the great resignation, but really that's just a morphing of a, it's like the Industrial Revolution, in my opinion.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_03: There's a there's such a transformation in the way that, you know, like I know people who are partners of law firms, who I know very closely, um, who, you know, people are thinking, you know, how do we want to work?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: How do we want to live?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: How do we want to do our business?
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think it's opening doors?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think it's changing the way we do business?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: And how does it feed what you've just outlined?
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I think that like if you use remote work as an example, working remotely was a rising tide globally.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: What I think COVID did is accelerated us 15 where remote work would have been 15 years from now, that's where we are today because COVID accelerated it so much.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so businesses need to uh consider to what degree do to what degree does this benefit and our people benefit from a more remote working arrangement.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Now, for some businesses, it's going to make complete sense for them to work remotely 100% of the time, and you're seeing that in some companies.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: For some businesses, it makes no sense for anybody to work remotely any percent of the time, just by virtue of the business model.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: And for in some companies, a hybrid works best.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so again, it's dependent on the business, the industry, the consumer, the business model, all of that kind of stuff.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: But yes, there are always really fast changes occurring in the business world.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, we spoke about marketing before.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Marketing is an area that pretty much changes, you know, fundamentally, say quarterly these days, which is like every three seconds, right?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Quarterly, you know, and so if you've got marketing teams and marketing budgets and you're across 12 different platforms and there's fundamental changes quarterly, that's that's a rapid iteration, period.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so what however when a business has the foundations and fundamentals in place, meaning, you know, I'm I'm I'm uh I'm I've I've got a marketing journey, I've got a sales process, I've got a good product that we're delivering on well, I've got a team, there's KPIs, there's scoreboards to demonstrate whether we're performing or not, we're measuring and managing the money, you know, we're we're doing the fun foundations and the fundamentals.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: When you're doing that well, change becomes a lot easier.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's when you're rudderless and you don't have a structurally sound company.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's when change can pull you in that direction, and then something changes three months later, and now you're getting pulled in that direction, and it's this wild kind of organizational whiplash.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: That shouldn't occur in any company because what you want to do is you want to build a structurally sound organization that can change and iterate, and then as changes arise, you're able to address them relatively calmly.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_03: So, really, what you're saying is if you think of it sort of like in a ship concept, you need the anchors in place, but you have to be able to pick them up and move if you need to, but you need those anchors to fundamentally be able to shift effectively without things just going A-WOL.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: Although there are some companies that clearly, you know, have been impacted beyond that capacity.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I'd say, I'd say it's even more fundamental than the anchors.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: You need to have a strong ship.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have a strong ship, your your chances of navigating uncharted and stormy waters are far greater than if then if your ship's got holes at the bottom, which most businesses do, because we're not yet focused on this on building structure around the fundamentals.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_03: Just on that note, we're talking about the key to effective, I suppose, running of businesses, but in general, is to be mentally yourself well balanced as best as possible.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: The pandemic knocked lots of people off their perches.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: From a personal perspective, how have you navigated your own sense of well-being and what have you seen around you in terms of business leaders and people navigating that?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: And also men, I'd like to talk about that too, because I think it really has been transformative for a lot of men.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_03: Women, yes, and we often talk about that, but men have been forced to really look at themselves in a different way.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_03: Many of the men I know anyway.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we were indirectly really when I talk for the entourage of myself personally, we were indirectly very prepared for COVID.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason being in 2015, we became an accredited college.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, what we do at the entourage here, independent of becoming an accredited college, we we work with business owners that have small to medium-sized business owners that build a foundation, they want to scale.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: In 2015, we had done that so well at scale that we had a lot of people coming to us wanting to, you know, little Jimmy's leaving high school, can he come study at the entrage?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: And the answer was no, we only work with business owners.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so we became an accredited college.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: We went into, you know, diplomas and advanced diplomas in business specializing in entrepreneurship, and we went into that space really successfully.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: About a year in the government changed the regulations, you know, with three months' notice.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: And for us, that meant we were three months away from a monthly loss of about$800,000.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so we needed to go from 90 people to 40 people, you know, in a matter of days.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: We were seriously, seriously, seriously distressed for many, many years.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, starting again would have been a walk at the park.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: We, we, we that's but that's not what we chose to do.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: We chose to keep fighting.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: So we're fighting from millions of millions of dollars in debt, losing about half a million dollars a month, three months away from losing$800,000 a month, just triggered redundancies of more than 50% of our workforce.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that that was the kind of space that I lived in for years as we dug ourselves out of that position.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I'm quite a spiritual person.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so after that, I was like, what the fuck was that?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was it was it was the hardest period of my life.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, well, for what reason did that occur?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then COVID came along.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: And and what happened to us in 2016 is essentially what happened to most businesses when COVID came, which is an external event unrelated to the quality of your business or any decisions that you've made previously comes along and it wipes you out.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so what do you do now?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so for us, you know, our first priority was we need to, we've got about 500 clients in our Elevate program, which you know is a program that helps companies to sort of scale to eight figures and build a business that can work without them.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was our first priority was to help them.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: And we did, you know, because here's the thing navigating challenge and distress in business is a skill like anything else.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: If you've got the fundamentals in place, even better still.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: But if you've got the fundamentals in place and you know how to manage distress and challenge, then um you're far better placed than than if you didn't, right?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, during COVID, our members outperformed the market by 310%.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really happy to say that I actually don't think we lost any businesses that were clients of ours that actually went under.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, we had the opposite.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we had uh one company that, well, we had many companies, but I'll I'll give you one example of this.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: They're in retail, sell gardening um supplies for people to do be to be essentially DIY gardeners at home.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: And they were doing that.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, exactly, exactly.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, and then there was other ones like chocolate stores and you know, basically anyone that was in retail, I'll I'll give you one story, but it was indicative of a bunch of different plays that we had in that particular industry, which is restrictions came in, they had to shut the doors.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so what they were planning to do was actually shut the doors of their business because it's like, oh, I'm a retail company, people can't come into my shop, I'm gonna have to shut my business.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so we re-strategized, we helped them go online.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, usually that took us anywhere from sort of a week to a week and a half.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then in that particular company, it's called Aqua Gardening.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: In the month where restrictions hit, the month where they had to close their doors, and the month where they thought they were gonna have to shut down their business, they went from doing$150,000 a month to$450,000 a month.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and you know, I again I could tell you story after story after story.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: The core message I have for people is yes, COVID was incredibly challenging, not just on a commercial level, but also on a human level.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't believe it's ever about circumstance.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: I believe it's about strategy.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's about environment, I think it's about execution.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's about what happens out there, I think it's about what happens in here and how well we operate with our hands.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so I my my suggestion to anyone would be change your relationship with change.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: Understand that, you know, like we're now we're now coming into a recession, right?
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: So the challenging years are going to be prolonged even further.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I know and I say this from such a deep place of conviction because we literally see it and create it every day.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Businesses are made better during times of challenge.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: Businesses are made better because of change.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so even if you were in the worst or worst category, you were shut down, you couldn't operate, you couldn't open your doors, there's always a play.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so that that's kind of our core kind of thrust of our message for business owners and entrepreneurs and anybody is once you've been dealt cards, how do you best play them to never waste a crisis again and actually utilize it to make yourself and your company better?
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: So, really, what you're saying is a crisis, whether it be a pandemic or whatever comes your way, is really your fuel if you choose to use it that way.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: The obstacle is the way, yes.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I think, I mean, you referred to that incident back in uh was it 2016 that you went through.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: So, but was that your in that situation it was a government in in because the government through funding and you faced so what you're saying is it's almost somewhat inevitable.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's just a question of how you respond to it.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's absolutely inevitable, yeah.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and so really it's a question of what is your what's in your toolkit and how can you use it.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_03: And you've seen this, I mean, it's a pretty extraordinary record for you to say that of the is it 500 businesses that you have on deck, that most of them survived and thrived, or some thrived more than others, but really you didn't see it.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas, you know, you hear this.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: The other thing is, I suppose, is to ensure you have a community and a sensibility.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I suppose that comes back to the notion of feeling like you're not isolated or on your own or drifting out to sea, because I think a lot of people felt that.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um and there was a lot of talk about in the media, as you know, which can be really debilitating.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, on that note, how are you, how do you personally take care of yourself?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like what's your sort of well wellness strategy personally?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and again, it's I I I was forced to develop wellness strategies out of necessity and extreme challenge.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I woke up one day in 2015.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: So this preceded 2016, obviously.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, preceded the crisis.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I woke up, uh, we'd just done an international tour.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think I just I'd just written a book, you know, I was doing all these different things, and I was young, you know, 2015, seven years ago, I was 28.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I woke up and I could not get out of bed.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't sick, I wasn't injured.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm I'm somebody that I think usually has a pretty sort of happy disposition, and I could like I physically couldn't get out of bed.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was one of the weirdest feelings of my life.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: And what it was was I was seriously, seriously burnt out because I'd been navigating startup stage, high growth, high challenge, high demand for for you know, probably 11 years by that point, you know, across different businesses.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so I and so again, that catalyzed me to, and this comes back to your question, what do I do?
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm really serious about nutrition.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: I became increasingly serious about exercise and training.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: I started to take my meditation practice a lot deeper.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I engaged a meditation coach called Tom Cronin here in Sydney.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I started to journal more frequently.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: I started to place as much time, as much importance on my downtime as I do my uptime.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: I started, I started to read more.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and so that's all the sort of stuff that I still do today.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: To come back to your question, what are my personal things?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: I do that like I meditate, I sleep well, I uh drink alcohol very infrequently, I eat sugar very infrequently, I journal, I take myself on courses, you know, like we're talking about India before, you know, months at a time in India.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I've kind of uh learned to do and learned to integrate into my life is those kind of, you know, I call them happiness strategies or personal strategies, integrating them into your everyday, because I've felt firsthand just how debilitating it is when I don't, and then I'm no good to anybody.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think I think for particularly for it's not just entrepreneurs, but any kind of A-type personality where like you you you've got a dream, you've got a vision, you you you pride yourself on leading the people around you, even if that's your family, is we need to find selfishness on the other side of selflessness, right?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so when we're born, we're we're we're completely egocentric and we're completely selfish.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: Some people then sort of evolve to a point where we're completely selfless and we give and we give and we give and we give and give till we're empty.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so finding selfishness on the other side of selflessness where you can recognize you can't give what you don't have, and therefore, to a degree, you need to prioritize yourself and your health and your personal well-being.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I think I think the sooner one can learn that lesson, and hopefully not through extreme challenge or adversity, but just, I mean, hopefully, maybe this conversation can be a catalyst.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: The sooner one can learn that, the better.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_03: I absolutely agree with you.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: And and you, you, you know, as I said, having come from the ashram in India recently, and all of the things that you're saying are completely what what I mean, I resonate completely.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_03: What I think is challenging is particularly men, I think.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_03: I think there's been a great disservice to men in the corporate sector.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_03: Women sort of worked it out a bit earlier.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like I've got friends who are barristered who are like, you know, I used to sit there going, that's so unfair.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like I have to stop and have children and stop and do this and stop and do that.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_03: And my male barrister friends are like, QC's, and you know, and I'm like, you know what?
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_03: You're saner.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_03: You've got like I'm not saying this for every people, but but I'm saying in some ways women worked that thing out and were forced in some ways to do that.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_03: But I think the message is getting through, I know, to the younger men.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_03: Do you well, do you think it's getting through?
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_03: And how do we get it through?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: Because I think, you know, in some ways, I worry that the collateral damage of the way that we've been educating, living, and running our lives has been our men and our boys.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_03: And it worries me a lot because we know as women what we need to do, although we've still got our own challenges, as we know.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_03: What's your take on that?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_03: Do you do you see transition in the way that a lot of the men you know are thinking and behaving and accessing things that look after themselves?
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_03: They're so busy, you know.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_03: Success in verticomas has got to change, I think, a little bit, the definition.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: For me, that's the crux of it.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: We have to change the definition.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we we live in a world that makes the external supreme.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by that is is, and particularly the the men that we're talking about in this instance are pursuing the career that looks good, the dream house, the ideal car, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: But the world is full of people in their dream home feeling empty.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: The world is full of people driving their dream car, feeling inadequate.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: The world is full of people in a relationship that's perfectly manicured for Instagram, sitting across from their partner on the dining table, feeling unseen, unheard, and undernourished.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: The world's full of people running million dollar businesses,$10 million businesses,$100 million businesses, QC barristers feeling small.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: And this is what we fail to realize.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: We've become so technologically advanced and so unadvanced in our understanding of human consciousness.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: What we fail to realize is we live in a world that makes the external supreme, but our experience of life is our experience of our inner state of being.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so it doesn't matter if I've got the dream house, if I feel empty, I feel empty.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter if I've got the perfect car, if I feel inadequate, I feel inadequate.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's about uh helping people understand to a greater degree that rather than living purely for the externalities, as if our inner world doesn't exist, start first with the inner world.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: What brings me joy?
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: What makes me curious?
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: What is currently triggering me?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: Good indication of what work I might need to do.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, where am I currently exhausted?
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: Where am I disconnected from self?
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: Where am I disconnected from others?
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so if we can turn the um spotlight inward and operate from the inside out and call that success, I think that's what needs to shift.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I totally agree with you.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that that is hopefully what a lot, like I know a lot of the young guys, like I have a young son who is definitely thinking much more in that vein than any of the men that I grew up with.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_03: You know, um, I mean, it's a it's a definite change in the shift there.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_03: They want to understand themselves, they want to read, they want to be much more connected to self.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe that's part of this transition.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_03: How long did it take for you personally to recover from the the particular did it take a long time for that particular episode that you outlined for you to recover?
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, 2016 shortly followed, and so I I didn't really have the uh luxury of pausing or wrestling.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to integrate it in.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: And and so how long did it take me?
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: It it's a little bit hard to say.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it wasn't denial and deflection.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just want to come back, Deborah, to what you said a moment ago, which is you know, you used your son as an example, and and he's more open and inwardly reflecting than previous generations.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: This is a really important point, right?
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: This is a really important point because I've done a lot of inner child work over the last few years, right?
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: Which is going back to your childhood years and going, where did I feel unseen, unloved, because we are all carrying, unless you've done the work, unresolved trauma from childhood that's currently affecting your behavioral and psychological and relationship patterns as an adult, right?
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was taking a group through this at a recent Alabate retreat, uh, entourage retreat in Byron Bay.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: And doing it at the work is fucking grueling.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's uncomfortable, it's confronting, you'd rather not do it, it's sad, it's it's it's hard, right?
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're having a conversation with this uh about this in the room.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's probably a hundred entrepreneurs there.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: And what I was saying to them was part of the reason we carry so much trauma from childhood is we were parented by unconscious parents.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by that is you only need to go back two generations, and they did not have the luxury or the time to go inward and reflect.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: We had to fight fucking World War II.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: Prior to that, we had to fight World War I.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: And prior to that, in 1990, half the world was living on under$2 a day.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so we forget that the world we live in today is such a privilege and such a luxury that it's it's it's true that to say that for the first time in human history, when I say first time, let's say over the last 40 years, which is five minutes in an evolutionary timescale, for the first time in human history, we've actually got the luxury and the income and the healthcare and the infrastructure and the resources to do this work.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why we're seeing more conscious people in today's generation, is because previous generations didn't have the luxury.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's also can provide a useful reframe for men and women in particular today who rightfully so sit there and go, Jesus, this inner child work or this healing work or turning the light inward, or you know, I've been in lockdown for two years and I'm feeling depressed and I'm feeling anxious and all that kind of stuff.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: Turning the spotlight inwards, that is hard, but it's a privilege for us to be in a position where we can do this work.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I absolutely agree with you.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the other thing is the irony, as you would also reflect, is that the ancient wisdoms of sort of, you know, you go back to India or you go to the indigenous communities.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_03: And the irony is like they're sort of sitting there going, well, yeah.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: We knew there's all of this.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: We're all clamoring, like going, wait, revelation, and they're like, we're done, like, yeah.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like finally.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: Take a seat.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: Take a seat.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like we've been doing meditation for like two years.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, I do take your point, and you're absolutely right, it is a privilege, and it's been an absolute privilege to have you join me on the podcast.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: I've absolutely loved having you at what I've learned, and I have learned a lot, which is what I always hope when I interview my guests.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I think my listeners will love hearing all your gems of wisdom.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I wish you all the best, and hopefully, we'll catch up soon.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, we can do some work together in the coming months and years.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, Debbie, that that was really enjoyable.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: We could we could do that for hours.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, thank you so much.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: Have a great day.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks so much for listening.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_03: The What I've Learned podcast will now be coming to you weekly, with new episodes released every Tuesday.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_03: So check out my What I've Learned Instagram for updates.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_03: Meanwhile, stay tuned, kind and curious.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_03: Love you.