Latest / The Living Waters Podcast / Ep. 324 - The Dangers of Over-Spiritualizing Everyday Life

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Ep. 324 - The Dangers of Over-Spiritualizing Everyday Life · The Living Waters Podcast

• 1:04
  Speaker 1: And Mark.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: That's the thing about not over-spiritualizing in the sense that people cast aside common means that God has given us to discover His will in certain ways.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: So it's like, no, no, I just pray and I need to hear God tell me what to do.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Versus like, god surrounded you with wise people.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: God has given you a brain to research.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Is this good?
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Is this not God's given you common sense to say, if I get this job and move to this area, will I be away from the church family?
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: that I think is more important for me.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: So that's really key and let me just say I mean we're joking about getting hate mail about Disneyland and stuff.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: I do want to say on this note this is where it's important to recognize, too, like that latitude within our liberties.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Like there may be some people in their conscience they can't do Disneyland or watch Disney movies.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Obviously, we know that Disney has gone extreme on different things, right?
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: So you have that liberty and you need to take it fully and freely.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: What we're saying is don't now encroach on others, because I'll assure you of this, if you're going to be a stickler and be dogmatic and legalistic with other people on that, they can find a hundred things in your life that are not consistent with that, because you may not go there, but you may shop at Target.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Do you know what Target is supporting?
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Do you know what they're funding?
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Do you know what you know?
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Someone else may say you know, I just it's something about Target and people going to the women's bathroom.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Man, I just can't do it.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, but I'm fine to go to Disneyland.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: It doesn't bother me, whatever it doesn't always make sense.
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: So I have a little term, it's simple.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Leave people alone, man.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Leave people alone, man.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Just walk with God, unless it's overtly sinful.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Listen, things don't have to make sense in order to be God's will.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: You guys have seen this before, loser right, loner?
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, our listeners can't see it, but that's why they need to join Living Waters TV, where they can actually see us, but Oscar, where they can actually see us.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: But Oscar, that was very well uncharacteristically perceptive of you, loser Mark, you're not even looking, you're not even.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: No, you're a loser.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Loser.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: You know that you have the proverbial and legendary L loser symbol over your head.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: When your wife tells you she's going to start rating your jokes, oof oh Is that what.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: Rachel's doing.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: That's the status you've hit with your wife.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: What's your Yelp review?
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: Wheezy.
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: That was a bad wheezy.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine Yelping your husband?
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: He's on their jokes that was a fun Yelp.
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: Currently one and a half stars on Yelp.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it was, but Rachel's like I'm going to start writing you, jikes.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: She's been doing it, man, I'm very funny.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: If I do say so myself, I am extremely funny.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: It's really humorous, I don't know what it was.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: She's just like yeah, you know and I think it's to ridicule me, right, like, yeah, of course, like that stunk, you know.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: That was stupid.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: And what makes me upset too is now like right as you get, hopefully, as you get further along as a couple, you should argue less, I would say.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: But now we're having arguments over the ratings.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Seriously, we pulled out of a restaurant bar the other day.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: I'm like, ah, I go, that was a good one.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: She's like, meh, like a six, I go, that was like a nine.
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: What are?
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: you talking about.
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: Did I ever tell you the story about us waiting in line for breakfast?
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: And the older?
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: ladies.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, the family and the age.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you told me you don't look a day over.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: What was it?
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: So it was these two ladies.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: And then their mom was in the middle and they go, hey, could you take a picture of us?
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, sure.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: And so I grabbed the camera and they're like, ah, it's our mom's 91st birthday.
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: And I go, oh happy, oh, happy birthday.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: You don't look a day over 90, dude.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: They laughed but, kelly was like that was not.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, dude, that was courtesy laughter.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that the old lady wanted to tell you they loved it yeah, um, but you know, man, it's crazy, like when rachel and I first met seriously, and and for every man like that, I think, is one of the incentives for marrying a specific woman she laughs at your jokes.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: That's so true.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: It's true.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: But I'm talking.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Rachel would die One time.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: Seriously she was.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know why she was driving me.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: We argued about this the other day because we were hanging out, we were just getting to know each other.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: We went to San Diego to a friend of hers' wedding and she drove us.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: I never let her drive.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: But anyway, whatever, Me too Laura tried.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: She almost had to pull off the freeway because she was laughing so hard.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Really, it doesn't happen anymore.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: It doesn't happen like that anymore.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: Did you have your shirt off, or?
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: something.
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: I was just about to say what did I say about the shirt?
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: No, I, know, I mean there's times I get Rachel roaring, but it's the whole like a prophet is not without honor except in his own home right, like there will be people dying.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: I'm cracking jokes and everything and the kids are like straight-faced.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: They're just immune.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: I've seen this Do you do the same jokes with different people and then they have to?
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: sit through the comfort thing that's exactly right and Rachel had to grow up hearing Ray's jokes.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Now she has to hear me recycle Ray's jokes, and me as well.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: So it's double.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: That's funny.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Doubled up Anyway.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: But man seriously praise God for laughter.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm trying to think of some of these homes where there really is not much.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: It's misery, man.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: The joy that comes from just puns and dad jokes.
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: We talk about laughter.
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: When we do premarital counseling for couples that I'm gonna officiate the wedding for, we spend a one session of talking about the value of laughter.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: A whole session on it.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: Wow, I love that.
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because I mean like laughter, certainly it's joyful in those fun funny moments.
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: But even in the little idiosyncrasies, even in your little mistakes and errors throughout life, like you, can you know, if I forget to make the bed, kelly can get upset or she can just laugh at the way that it's just it becomes.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: It goes from being something that could be tension to being silly, just like look at the silliness, the absurdity of human beings and we're living together and it's just, it's funny.
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: It can be funny or it can be frustrating.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: I love coming out when my wife has some girlfriends over and I come out with the most outrageous, crazy outfit, as if I'm just living life and doing my thing Like the one you're wearing right now.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, what's different, Mark?
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: Nothing different.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: This like what's different mark nothing different.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: This is the way I trust who's talking oscar dude.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Look at this guy.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: You know you like this.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I do like that one actually.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, sorry, mark, go on no, that's no please don't go on.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, um, no, it's, it's so good and you know, yeah, man, after you laugh you just feel good, it's releasing endorphins, it's uh, it's bonding, um.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: So.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, yeah, it's a joy to have that.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: And yeah, over the years, like one of the biggest like tension relievers for Rachel and I, when there has been tense moments, is we just one of us cracks a joke and it's over, man, you know so yeah, speaking of jokes, ray's not here today.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: Two weeks in a row.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: Oh, ray, comfort.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, ray's got stuff, he's he's got going on, but he will be back before long.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: We miss him.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: We love him.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Please keep paying for our paychecks we love you, we love you we love you time for a cool, classy comment.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I got it in a box.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: Hey, come on.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: Your comment is in a box comment in a box.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: We like it in a box.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: Your comment is in a box.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: Comment in a box.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: We like comments in boxes.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: We love comments in boxes.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: It's Christmas season.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: Are we getting gifts?
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: Is that a handwritten letter?
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: How cool is that.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: This person does a lot of handwriting.
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: What happens if on page two you mess up?
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: Did they misspell my name?
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Did they misspell my name on there?
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: N-e-r-c.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: No, that's okay.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Could, you imagine, mark.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: Don't even try, with your eyesight, to really make that out Easy.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Ray, oscar and Mark, I started listening to your podcast about a year ago.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: I have several that I cycle through, but Living Waters has quickly risen to the top of that list.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: As a stay-at-home mom, many of my days are spent taking care of mundane household tasks, but listening to your guys' perfect blend of humor and truth brings so much joy to my laundry folding.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: The reason I felt so compelled to send this, though, is just to say thank you.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Because of this podcast and so many other Living Waters resources, I finally feel both inspired and equipped to share the gospel.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: I recently watched the Atheist's Delusion and what Is it, both of which stirred my heart from a place of.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: I should talk to people about this to.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: I have to talk to people about this.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Mark, what is?
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: it.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: What is it?
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: No, that's a film.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: It's a film that we produced.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a film that we produced on Abortion, abortion Film that we produced on abortion, life.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: What is it?
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Spoiler alert?
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Now, I try to take every opportunity I can, or to listen, I don't know.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: Now, I try to take every opportunity I can find or create Nice.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: There you go or create to share Living Waters resources with others.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: I appreciate you guys so much, especially your honesty when it comes to evangelism.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: I think it's easy to assume that some people are the super evangelists who have no problem going up to strangers and sharing the gospel.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: So thank you for being honest and admitting that it can still be scary, but you die to yourselves and do it anyway.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: That has encouraged me to do the same, and it is exciting to see God open doors and also my mouth, so that the gospel can go forth.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: I love you guys and I'm deeply grateful for the impact you've had on my life and since we're approaching Christmas, I included a little gift for each of you, and this is from Sierra, by the way.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: C-I-A-R-A.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: Also, your handwriting is a spiritual gift.
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: That's incredible.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: So we will begin with who else?
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: By Mark's fans.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: So she says Mark National Hot Dog Day is the third Wednesday in July.
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: He knows.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Four dollar chili dogs at the schnitzel.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: She calls it the schnitzel.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: Look at that, mark Wiener schnitzel hot dog socks.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, these are crazy socks.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Simone, simone, simone.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: Oscar, I'm also a fellow coffee lover and I have to know, and I have to know are you a hot or iced kind of guy?
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: Hot all the way.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: That doesn't matter, it's filthy coffee that he drinks, so that's all that matters.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: Oh, look at that Coffee Yay.
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, there they are.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Okay, oh yeah, mark, look at you.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, and Ray, I tried to find chicken socks for you, but they only came in women's sizes.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: That'll work.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: That would work.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Strangely, will work.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: That would work.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, not sure what that means, but I think you'll like these better anyway, wow.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: What is it?
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: How old are you?
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know, bro.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Smoker's cough man that was All that hookah.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, look at this.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: It looks like oh man, she's got Sam, and Did she have those?
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: made.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Seriously, and I think Lucy on there with sunglasses Isn't that cool oh wow, We'll get those to Ray.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: He's not here or we'll keep them.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: And finally, Easy, you are the songbird of your generation.
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: It was a good letter.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Don't let your haters I mean co-hosts get you down and check this out yo musical notes.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: I will give you $20 if you can read those musical notes right now.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: If I can read them.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if you know what this is.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: You know what I took Appreciation of Music class.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: I learned and now I forgot, but I can sing.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: You owe me $20.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: Sierra, we love you.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Thank you for our socks, we will wear them like athletes, like superior jocks.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Ho, ho, ho ho.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: You caused the wolves to howl, I know.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: All right, sierra, thank you, you blessed our socks on I see what you did there.
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: I thought of that on the spot.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: Speaking of bad jokes, that one's a one.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, don't you guys get on the rating thing too?
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: All right, where are we?
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: I have no idea.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, and now a radically revolutionary resource.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: This podcast is brought to you by Pepsin, pepsin, pepsin, ac, or what was it called by the Tract Starter Kit, which contains one pack each of the following gospel tracts you get a total of 350 tracts.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Friends, million dollar bill, 10 commandments, coin comic are you a good person?
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Small version and 101 of the world's funniest one-liners those are great tracts.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, by the way, I helped to influence the cover on that one.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: Did you, yeah, what is it the?
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: guy upside down.
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: It's got an airplane.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great cover.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Thank you, mark.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: It's old but it still looks good.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: Anyway, sorry stuffing this back in and all that other good stuff.
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: Are we going to talk about Living Waters, pants?
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Living Waters shorts.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Tell us about them, Oscar.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: So recently somebody took one of our videos and reposted it and they ended up getting 3 million views.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: Now you might think, oh man, living Waters was probably really upset about that.
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: They probably filed a lawsuit and took that guy to the cleaner.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: We didn't.
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: We loved it and we are encouraged by that and we are encouraging you to do something similar.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: So if you go to livingwaterscom, backslash, forward, slash, thank you shorts.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: We have ways in which we're basically trying to train you on how you can take videos of ours and repurpose them legally, faithfully, for God's glory and by God's grace.
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: More and more people will see the gospel, will interact with the content that we put out and come to a saving faith.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, make sure to check that out.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: We have guidelines on there.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: What's the license called, mark?
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: Creative Commons Licensing.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just a fancy word, I don't know what it means, but, yeah, we'll give you the ability to do that if you do it in the right way according to our guidelines.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: So make sure to check that out.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Livingwaterscom forward slash shorts and don't forget the Living Waters mug from the Study Bible.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Living Waters TV oh, living Waters TV.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, subscribe, check it out.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: You get good stuff on there.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: All that Living Waters, I didn't like that one that was creative.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: Nobody will ever subscribe to us.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: At livingwaterscom.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right Time, livingwaterscom.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: All right Time for the show the dangers of over-spiritualizing everyday life.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: Mark, this being a weakness of yours, I'll give you the first word for this one.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Those that are listening, who heard Mark make that noise?
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: We have this thing that when we say something, if it was insulting, we pretend to die, so that person is left with those last words being heard on their conscience Forever.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: You will remember that.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: So yeah, guys, I'm actually excited to talk about this one, because this is a bigger problem, I think, within the Christian realm than most people would recognize or even diagnose.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: I think there's times where it's like something's off with this bro, but it's hard to pinpoint because he loves the Lord, he's a godly guy, but why can't?
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: I relate to the guy.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying and I love it when I hear testimonies from unbelievers, when like, okay, first of all, we know Jesus said woe to you if all men speak well of you, right, so we understand.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: The context of that is that you're a compromiser and you never speak truth, you never confront people with the gospel and so you're the greatest guy in the world.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: But there's a balance in that, in that you've done that and you've loved on people, and many people can say about you like man I don't know what it is about this guy, but I love him.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: I don't believe in his God, I don't agree with his lifestyle, I'm not into his gospel, but something about that guy.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I'll tell you.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: I think it begins with the pulpit.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: We're talking about over-spiritualizing everyday life.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: I think that it begins with the pulpit, and what I mean by that is because our shepherds are not teaching the sheep how not to over-spiritualize the text, and so people sit inside of a group, they read a verse, and then they go around and they say what does it mean to you?
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: What does it mean to you?
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: What does it mean to you Now?
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: What does it mean to you?
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: No, no, no.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: There's one thing that you can extract from that when you put it in its proper historical context.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: Now, there could be different applications perhaps, but when we approach the Word of God, what did the original author intend for the original audience whom the letter was written"?
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: So if they hear thunder from the pulpit, this is what it teaches, this is what the scripture means.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: We have to grab a hold of a text, put it in its proper context, lest it become a pretext with everything out of context.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: I don't know who said it and I don't even know if I worded that correctly.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: You just said it.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: I did just say it.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: My name is Mark Anthony Spence, so it starts with a pulpit that you must convince your people.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: You must continually share with your people when you open up the Word of God.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: We are going to try to extrapolate from the Word of God what it actually says, and that is called exegeting the text.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: And what we don't want to do is the opposite, which is eisegeting the text, and that is putting into the text that which we hope it says.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: And people do this all the time just one-on-one, where we are going from person to person to try to find somebody who's going to agree with me, as opposed to someone who's just going to give me the Word of God and challenge me.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: according to the text, so it starts with the pulpit.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: That's so important, mark.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: I think that's an excellent place to start, because I think, like you're saying, a lot of over-spiritualizing begins with a misunderstanding of what the Word is teaching and what the Word is saying, and so people will take certain texts and then just start to extrapolate from there that this is what that means, and so they get this sense about them.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Where everything is man, it's got to be talked about like this it's got to be approached like this and it makes them weird I don't know how else to put it Weird.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Let me give you an example.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Hey, how are you doing?
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: What do you mean by that?
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: When it's just a simple question?
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: How are you doing?
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Are you reading into that?
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: Did God share something with?
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: You about me that you need to share, Bro.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: I'm just simply asking how your day is going.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: I've sinned, I've sinned.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, I feel compassion for people that are in that realm because a lot of times it's not intentional, they're not going out and trying to be there, but it could be misunderstanding, it could be influence, it could be surrounding.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you have groups of people that are like that, but I'm saddened for them because a lot of times these same people will often say man, I don't have any friends and I don't understand why'"?
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: And in part it's sad that they don't have friends because a mature brother or sister needs to get into their life and say "'Hey man, I care about you and let me just share a few things with you'".
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: That's uncomfortable, it's hard to do, but it's that, the faithful wounds of a friend.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: So what challenge would you give them?
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: Ez, if somebody's listening going, wow, you know what, maybe, and they're having this epiphany, I don't have any friends.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: Is it me?
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Is it possibly me?
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: How do I now break free or begin to relate and create?
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, on the last podcast we talked about how there are some things that have objective weight to them because independent people come to the same conclusions without corroborating with each other.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: So you begin to think, okay, and look, it's hard right, because there's something innately in us, I think interrelated to our fallen sinful nature, that touches on pride, that makes us kick against that.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: And yet it's counterproductive because it doesn't help us when we're just trying to know it can't be that, it can't be me, it can't be man.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: A part of the solution sometimes is saying maybe it is me.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: And if 10 people have all said that I have this piece of white tape stuck to the back of my head and I can't feel it, I need to say I don't care if I don't feel it 10 different people who don't know each other just told me I have a white piece of tape on the back.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: I need to just yeah, reviews work the same way, right?
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: If you're gonna go to a restaurant and you see somebody says the worst service ever and you go on.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Nobody else is talking about the service.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: They just had a bad day and now they're venting.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: However, if you go to the reviews and it says the parking here is terrible and you go through all the other negative reviews and everybody talks about the parking being terrible, guess what?
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: The parking's terrible, so read the reviews.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: In other words, there's wisdom in the multitude of counselors.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: Go to different people and ask them.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: If you find yourself maybe I'm not approachable, let me ask people do you find me to be approachable?
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: And I want you to be honest.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you should do that with your jokes, EZ my jokes yeah, I'm getting bad reviews about my jokes, you know.
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: I think another way where we tend to over-spiritualize is in Christianese.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: We tend to use Christianized language with non-believers and I don't think you realize how much it throws them off.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: And I can relate to this because I was, you know, a 20-something-year-old former atheist walking in the church and even as a new believer, trying to figure out the faith, there were things people would say it would just sound so weird and so off.
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: I've been washed in the blood of the Lamb brother as a matter of fact, our church somebody used that phrase in a liturgy and at that time an atheist father of one of the one of our members atheist father was infrequently attending, and as they were walking to the car afterwards he was like there's nothing more disgusting than sounding like getting.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: Why would I wanna take a bath in someone's blood?
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: Like he just didn't understand it.
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: That's not his fault.
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: Sometimes well-meaning Christians will default to Christianized language without giving clear context in what that thing means, and to the non-believer or new believer it just sounds off and it sounds weird, and so sometimes it's simply in the language that we use.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's so true, and I remember as a new believer this was me in part.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: As a new believer I got saved and I got to a place where I thought, if I do not wear a Christian t-shirt, I'm in sin.
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: Definitely.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: So, as a new believer man, I'm going to high school, right?
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Remember?
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: I left my freshman year for my first high school.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: I was kicked out.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: I was my class president, a freshman class president, but I was the worst kid on campus, threatened to kill a teacher, tormented you know the aides on campus fighting, vandalized the classroom, right.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: I go from that getting kicked out, go to a second high school, became a gangster there, got kicked out of there.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Now I come back to this school, born again, new Christian.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Same school, same school, my freshman year.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: They took me back my junior year, first semester, second semester of my junior year.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: So I get back, man, and so it goes from that like freeze frame.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: This is crazy psycho, large eyeballed, insane Arab kid who weighs like two pounds running around.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: And now you weigh four pounds.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: And now I'm four pounds.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: So I'm obese, right by those standards.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: And walking around, big Christian shirt, real men love Jesus, a big family size Bible, right Walking around on the corner of my desk, everywhere.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Did you open your preach at your high school, or was that somebody else?
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: No, I evangelized.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: You're thinking Keith Yackey, back in the day, I think junior high or no.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: It was his high school campus, yeah and yeah and just I mean that, but you know what I'm saying.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: So it's that like sort of mindset and mentality, and I'm not saying a believer can't wear a Christian shirt, but it's when it gets to a point where you think you have to do this.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it can be an issue of pride.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: You want to make a statement.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: But for me, on a personal level, I don't do that intentionally because I don't want to give myself away.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: I want to give someone five minutes to get to know me before they immediately form an opinion.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: See what you're doing is you're using common sense and you're simply using wisdom.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: There's a great verse in Proverbs, chapter 3, it kind of goes unnoticed in verse 21,.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: It says my son, do not lose sight of these, selah, my son, do not lose sight of these.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Then it goes on.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: It says keep sound wisdom and discretion and they will be life for your soul and adornment for your neck.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: It is easy to lose sight of these things.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Of what things Of wisdom and discretion?
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: Put ourselves inside of a Christian bubble and we only talk Christianese, right To your point there, oscar.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Or we go to a Christian hairstylist, we only hire Christian plumbers or electricians and we live inside of this monastery and this echo chamber.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: And that not be the case.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: God forbid that be the case.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: Spurgeon said wisdom is the right use of knowledge.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: To know it's not to be wise.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Many men know a great deal and are all the greater fools for it.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: So, jesus, he sends us out as sheep in the midst of wolves and he tells us to be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: We don't need to go in with our big evidence Bible that Ray has right, just ready to proclaim everything.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Well, an evidence Bible is okay.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: Well, an evidence study Bible At livingwaterscom.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: At livingwaterscom right.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: Allow people to see that you're normal, that you had a hard day, that you're wrestling through difficult things.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: We ask questions just like everybody else does, but we go to Christ for our solution, for our answers.
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: Well, I love what you just said.
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: Make your vulnerability available.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: That's really powerful.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: Let him know when you had a hard day, rather than being the person who's always like, oh, it's always great, I'm always blessed or better than I deserve, which I love that.
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: I love that response to how are you doing?
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: However, it can become if that's what you say to your non-believer only it can become like a separation, if you will.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're untouchable.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: You're untouchable Because you're always doing so great, Right?
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: that's exactly right, Look obviously unbelievers already have a preconceived idea of what a Christian must be like, and I think that's subconscious.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: They may not be doing it concretely per se, but when they hear you say, man, I got so frustrated with my kids this week and I've shared stuff like that with people or my wife and I we had this disagreement, and I'm like huh no, not you guys, it's like oh, no, man, of course we're sinners, and that's why we need God's grace.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: She doesn't think I'm funny.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's rating my jokes, but you could see them begin to relax.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because automatically they're feeling oh, he thinks this of me.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: I feel like such a horrible person.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: And when they see that you're real and then you give them the hope that Christ can change you and, even though you struggle and stumble and sin, give them the hope that Christ can change you and even though you struggle and stumble and sin, there's mercy in him.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: And oh, it's Well.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Where did this idea come from?
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: Where we have to give off this persona as if we've attained?
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: I think.
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: Well, rostovat, in his book Bad Religion, talks about how Christians in America have mixed in with it a bunch of Gnosticism and Gnosticism.
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: One of the key tenants of Gnosticism is to over-spiritualize the spiritual and to think everything physical, everything material, is bad, it's fallen, it's sinful, and that, as we are becoming sanctified, as we're growing closer to heaven, as we increase in knowledge, all of that is the spiritual side of thing.
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: All of that, ultimately, we are leaving behind the physical realm and being elevated into some spiritual realm that we will one day maximize on the other side of death.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: And so what that means.
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: If that's true and that's a very Gnostic view of Christianity if that's true, then all of the physical, all of the cultural, all of the expectations of this physical, all of the cultural, all of the expectations of this world, all of that is dead or dying, and the further you remove yourself from that, the better.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: And so this is put on display in the way that people interact with culture.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: For example, I've talked before about DA Carson's book Christian Culture Revisited.
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: To recognize that some people view culture as like God means to reject culture.
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: It needs to die, it needs to be burned away, and what we are doing is isolating ourselves away from culture.
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: Therefore, we only listen to Christian music, only watch Christian movies.
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: We have to remove ourselves completely from culture.
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: Da Carson would argue that that's a very Gnostic view of culture.
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: Another view, which would be like new reformation, new apostolic reformation, is Christ over culture, which is that we need to take over culture.
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: And then he would argue that the right view of culture is Christ in culture or Christ redeeming culture, meaning that there are ways in which we can interact with the culture around us, discover things that are redeemable and reject things that are rejectable.
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: And when we do that, we play out the story of God reconciling the world.
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: Notice that all of our liturgies say God reconciling the world to himself, not God rapturing way of people, not God reconciling individuals.
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: God reconciling a world to himself.
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: The world groans in anticipation for its savior, and so I think a part of it is just we've accepted a gnostic view of Christianity.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: whether we realize it or not, it's very insightful, oscar.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: It's very good, you know, in that God has created all men.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: We know that common grace is a reality, which means God confers or prefers common grace on people.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Even though they're not saved, he still gives them gifts and talents artists and musicians and technicians and architects and so forth and so beautiful things can come out from them.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: But as believers, we need to discern and we need to reject that which is in opposition to God's beauty and God's moral standards and embrace that which is good, like, in a right way, each person discerning.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: If there's some things that may, for whatever reason, stumble them or prick their conscience, they need to stay away from it.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: But like not being a cookie cutter Christian, that's what we do.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: No, within the we, within the broader context of being believers, yeah, there are the we's that we do, because they fall in line with the very clear commands of scripture, explicit ones.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: But then there are those areas where there is latitude and we're able to be free in who we are, and that's the beauty of Christianity.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: I'm always suspicious of people that are exactly the same.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: There's something suspicious about that that's telling me someone's not thinking, and that's probably a cult where everyone has to conform.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: That's really you know.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, not thinking, and that's probably a cult where everyone has to conform.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: That's really you know.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: So so, yeah, that's good.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: And look, here's one area and I want to get into a few here but one one that I want to highlight right now is to the issue of acting like we're shocked by how the world acts, like, I mean, can you imagine?
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: it's really good you go to your friend's house, you knock on the door, you walk in, there's this dog, hey, puppy, ruff, ruff.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: And you're like, how could he Dude?
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: Your dog barked right, like dogs, bark cats meow apple trees, they carry apples.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's just like so.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: Another area where I think we can over-spiritualize and how we can in a sense alienate the world is where the world is acting like the world and we hone in on that and then we act awkward and weird or even say something about it, and then it's just like oh man, dude, like someone cusses, right as an example.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: Now again, there's context your wife, your kids are around, there's whatever.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: Your wife, your kids are around, there's you know whatever.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: But you know you're having all that unbeliever.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: You meet oh dude, bleepity, blank, blank, blank.
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: Hey, man, you know, I love that you're bringing this up, ez.
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: The visual that I get is like a baby is crying and you're like shut that baby up.
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because I'm trying to preach.
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, a baby cries.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: How can we soothe it?
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: Can I help you?
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: Can I hold your baby?
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: Do you need anything?
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: And in that same way, when we care for the community around us, when we care for the fallen and lost world, when we love the lost and we seek after them, we care for them.
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: We're not surprised when they act lost, yet we long for them to be found, amen.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, mark, but that's an area where I think some Christians struggle because, look, amen, yeah, mark.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: But that's an area where I think some Christians struggle because, look, it should irk us right.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: And I'm not talking about subjecting yourself willingly to entertainment that carries profanities in it and blasphemies, of course not.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: But I'm saying you're in the world, you're in it.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Don't be of it, of course, but you're going to be inundated by that.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a way, a scriptural way, I really believe, on how to handle this right.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: You're in the world, you're ministering, you're blessing, you're doing whatever you need to do, and then you escape away and you rest a while.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: Our rest is Christ.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: We go to Christ and we get rejuvenated, we get refocused and then we go right back into the battle.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: If we recognize that we are in a war, that this is a battlefield, not a playing field, then we'll look at these situations different, that these are image barriers.
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: and if it wasn't, for God's grace, I would be acting exactly the same way.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: I did act even much worse, in certain situations this morning, with easy right.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: So look it, we are in the world.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: We're not of the world, we're not a friend of the world.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: We're just passing through.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: We're sojourners going through this foreign land, homesick for a home.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: We've never been to Get to know your neighbors, get to know the people that you rub elbows with.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: Nobody wants to invite you to their event, whatever it may be, if all you do is talk down on them.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: Right, when we became Christians, there was a paradigm shift.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: Before I became a Christian, I was pro-evolution.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: I was pro-choice.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: I had a foul mouth on me.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: I wasn't pro-homosexuality just because it wasn't cool 35 years ago, but I would have been if I was not a Christian today.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: And then, when I became a Christian, everything changed.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: Behold, all things have become new.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: But listen, when I became a Christian, there were certain people that didn't want to have anything to do with me, and this is why we have a really great product Save Yourself Some Pain.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: These eight life-saving practical steps that you can do that you should do that once you become a Christian, don't immediately.
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: I always thought that wasa numbing cream.
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: What's that?
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: I always thought that was a numbing cream.
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: A numbing cream.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: You know, you don't go immediately to your family and just start going off on them.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: There's a what is it a cadorum Conundrum?
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: No, no, there's a way to go about doing it.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: Decorum, decorum.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: There's a decorum.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: There's a way to go about going to your family and now talking to them.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: And this is the thing you have to ask yourself Okay, if they stopped cussing, are they going to be saved?
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: You don't want to give them a misconception.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: You know, what I love is there's times when I've had unbelievers.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: I can tell they're trying to tiptoe around me, and then they slip and they go.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: Oh man, I'm so sorry.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: I go, man don't worry about that and you can feel they're relieved like, oh, because what you're ultimately going to do is get to the gospel with them at some point, hopefully if it's relational, and the Lord's going to take care of all that stuff when they get saved.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: Another example in that regard is that you never say anything, you never shut them down hey, are you cussing whatever?
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: But they begin to notice you don't.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Do you know how many testimonies I've heard of people saying dude, why don't you cuss Like teenage friends or guys at work or on the construction field?
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Dude, you never cuss, bro, what's up with that?
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: Well, and then that's a gospel opportunity right there.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: And then we have Christians, christians that maybe swing to the other side of the pendulum.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: Right that I'm in the midst of friends and everybody's kind of cussing.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: So then they start to cuss, thinking, to demonstrate how relatable they are.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: We actually have a podcast one of our first podcasts dealing with foul language and how it's out of place.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, and that is not the way to go.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: That's being of the world.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: You don't conform to the world to try to reach them.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: You be different, you stand out and that's unbiblical.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: Anyway, no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, put away filthy language.
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I really enjoy playing pickup basketball in this context or just being at the gym in general, because I think it's just such an amazing opportunity to be in the world, but not of the world.
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: To be able to play and to not cuss somebody out to be able to play, and if someone gets upset or angry, like you, show kindness in return If they get frustrated.
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: You don't, and I wasn't very good at this when I first became a believer, but God has matured me and sanctified me to, I think, be able to be a witness on the court to these guys, both in my language and my demeanor.
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: No matter what the situation and you're absolutely right you stand out.
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: It reminds me of this one guy I used to work with.
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: He's a professional bodybuilder and anytime he was in the break room, people walked up to him and they could not help but ask questions about health and fitness.
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: Like he exuded fitness and because of that, the most unfit person in the world could not help but walk in there and be like what should I?
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: be eating for lunch today, you know.
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: And in that same way, when you exude the gospel, people cannot help but see it and ask and wonder about it.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: No, I know, man.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: It's amazing how much you can say without saying much.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: Ooh.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: I just thought of that.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: Say that again.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: It's amazing how much you can say without saying much.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: I'm I never thought of that.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Say that again what it was.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: It's amazing how much you can say without saying much.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to write that down.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: Rate that, oscar 10.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: It's not bad.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: No, but, and again but.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: That's like don't get us wrong, don't go with the.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: You know, preach the gospel when necessary.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: Use words.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: No, no, you use words.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: You preach the gospel when necessary.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Use words, no, no, you use words, you preach the gospel.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: What I'm saying is you're right, oscar, that's an example.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: You're a walking billboard, often by just how you look.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: That's why I tell Christians look, listen, there's nothing spiritual, about being frumpy.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: There's nothing spiritual, about being a slob.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: But there are some people that think that, oh, I don't want to.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Who cares?
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: And you're right, it is Gnosticism repackaged.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: Who cares about the outside?
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Listen, it says something.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: It says you just don't care, and the Christians should care.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: We talk, oh, the temple of the Holy Spirit.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, clean that temple up, bro.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: The temple has an exterior too.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: We're talking about the dangers of over-spiritualizing everyday life and I remember you specifically, easy, several years ago, before we came to Living Waters, you had confronted a pastor right and it was overturning convictions into legalism right when this pastor had gone off on an individual because they wanted to go to Disneyland on their day off.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: And he was making the point and saying how are you redeeming the time by going to Disneyland?
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: Do you remember this encounter?
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: And you had turned it a little bit and go.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm just curious how are you redeeming the time when you watch the Lakers, do you?
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: remember the idea.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: I remember it distinctly.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I said, do you snowboard?
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: Because I knew he did.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: He goes.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, I had to repent because this was like a pastor's meeting and I got all worked up.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: And I think I got worked up because Because you love Mickey Mouse.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: No, because it's sinful to infringe on our brethren's liberties.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: Again I mean it really is.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: We don't see it as that.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: But, man, I mean we need to read the Word and see that Each man stands or falls before his own master and it's wrong to create in someone a qualm of conscience when their conscience is free.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: If it's not sinful, it doesn't violate the word.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: Again, we've talked about it before.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: If someone's beginning to get out of balance and now they're staying you know they're going to Disneyland every Sunday and skipping church, or you know what I'm saying?
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: Stuff like that we need to speak.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: But you know I got him.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: I started acting like pretending I'm snowboarding, so you're moving around.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Well, that's glorifying the Lord.
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: Yes, oh man, that was bad.
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: What you're talking about is Paul's issue in Galatians over circumcision, because you just used a phrase infringe on another brother's liberties.
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: That is such a powerful phrase.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Romans speaks to it too, in terms of each man's conscience and yeah, so we have to be careful with that.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: But let's talk about a few areas.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: So here's one I'd like to discuss God's sovereignty versus human responsibility.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: Oh, this is huge.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: So this is kind of that area where it's like look, man, god will provide right, it's like God's sovereign.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: God will take it, god will provide.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: As you're playing a video game, yeah, popping bonbons, you know.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: Bonbons, bonbons.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: I've always loved that.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: I'm trusting the Lord brother, yeah, so let's speak to that right, because that's over-spiritualizing.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: Oh God's in control, gotta provide.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: And not being diligent, not working hard, not researching, not preparing.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you do not provide for your family, you are worse than an infidel.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: Notice it doesn't say that if God doesn't provide for you he's worse.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: No, god is going to provide for all of your needs, according to his riches in Christ Jesus.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: But there is a responsibility.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: You need to grind it out.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: If need be, wake up a little bit early, change what you're reading or what you're doing to redeem the time.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: The days are evil.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, paul said you know 2 Thessalonians.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: He talked about how we hear that there are some among you who don't work at all and are busy bodies, and that's where he gets in.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: If a man does not work, neither shall he eat.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: It's like no, you're called to be responsible, you're called to act, and as you do it right, oscar, you trust the Lord.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: What does that look like?
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I'll tell you.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: First, though, let me tell you the story.
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: I mentored this young man who had a great job and he gets saved and he starts hearing.
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: You know, he starts listening to Living Waters and other organizations about evangelism.
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: He quits his job to become a full-time evangelist, with a new wife and a new baby at home and racks up like $40,000 in credit card debt, and in his mind it was like I'm trusting the Lord.
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: I'm trusting the Lord.
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: Someone faithfully paid it off for him and he racked up another $40,000 in credit card debt.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: Was this you Husker?
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, this was me.
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: No, and in his mind the whole time it's like well, I'm trusting the Lord, I'm trusting the Lord and I just try to encourage him.
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: Because this is the issue, and I think it starts back way back, actually, with speaking of over-spiritualizing, with the Roman Catholic view of secular work versus sacred work.
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: So the Roman Catholics, what they did is they created a divide.
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: They would have people come into church and they say you see all the work the priest is doing, the liturgy, the baptisms, the preaching of the gospel, that is sacred.
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: They are doing the Lord's work.
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: And everything that you're doing out there, all of the shoemaking, all of the woodworking, that's secular work, that is not of the Lord.
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: And the only way you can participate in sacred work is through your tithes and offerings to support our sacred work.
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: One of the things the reformers meant to do in the reformation was to redeem a view of work.
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: It was a famous.
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: There's this famous story and it's debated as to whether it's true or not.
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: Whether it's true or not doesn't actually matter, because it summarizes Luther's view of work.
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: The story is that a shoemaker one day sends him a letter and he's like hey, I just got saved by one of your tracks.
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: What do I do now, you know?
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: Should I quit my job and go into the ministry?
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: Should I put a cross in every single one of my shoes?
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: Should I put a tract inside of every single one?
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: What do I do?
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: And Luther's response is said simply make excellent shoes.
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: The reality is that all work is sacred work.
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: Why do we know that?
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: Because work was assigned to Adam in the garden before the fall to name the animals, to care for the garden.
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: Why did God give Adam a job?
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: Because God himself is a worker.
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: He is the one that created the world for his garden.
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: Why did God give Adam a job?
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: Because God himself is a worker.
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: He is the one that created the world for his glory.
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: In other words, work is beautiful and it is good.
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: There's no denying that it has thorns and thistles.
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: That's a part of the fall.
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: We experience work in painstaking ways, but we got to recognize that there is something beautiful about good work to God's glory.
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: And so to your point, like to think to yourself.
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: I think some people over-spiritualize this version of life.
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: Like I need to be in Bible study all the time, I need to leave my job and go into ministry.
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: But, the Lord means to do sacred things through your everyday life.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: Amen.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: Look, and I'm gonna state this emphatically Sometimes the worst thing you can do is read your Bible.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: Sometimes the worst thing you can do is pray.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: Sometimes the worst thing you can do is share the gospel in the wrong place at the wrong time.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: You're at work and you're reading the Word when you're supposed to be interacting with your job.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: That's sin.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, reading the Bible can be sinful.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: You're sharing the gospel on the clock when you have a critical job to do.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: I'm not talking about you're on your lunch break, I'm not talking about how you have a job where it's natural to talk and interact, but you're actually stopping work and sharing the gospel unless it's again a divine and clear kind of like what must I do to be saved?
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's exceptions, but I'm just talking as a general rule.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that can be wrong.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: You're pausing to pray when you're supposed to be doing something critical.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: That can be sinful.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: So that's where, again, that over-spiritualizing.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: No, dude, I'm in the Word.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: I don't care what anyone says.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: Boss, you know.
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: All right, go to unemployment, you know.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: That's where you're going to end up.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: So I think that's really important.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: Another area.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: There's a story told about a new convert that visited a Christian who was tending his garden and he said if you knew Christ was going to come back in an hour, what would you be doing?
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: That's a great question.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: And he said I suppose in about an hour I'd be done tending to my garden.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: No change in what he's doing, because he's already living out his life to the glory of God.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: Because you do all that you do unto the Lord when you're working, and you're working hard you are worshiping, you're glorifying God.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: You're actually incarnating the word, because now you're living out the word and I'm so glad you highlighted that, oscar.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: I grew up Catholic and that was ingrained in my mindset.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: I don't want to be unfair to every Catholic.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: Some may not think like this.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: I know I did.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: There was a sacred-secular divide.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: There isn't in the kingdom of God.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: All things can be sacred.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: We do them under the Lord.
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: So here's another one Mark A misunderstanding of God's will, where we think we need a sign from God for every small instance in life.
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: Like where do I eat?
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: Should I put two socks on today, or just the hot dog sock too, mark?
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a saying the hot dog socks.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: There's a saying that Justin Peters came up with If you want God to speak to you, read his word.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: If you want God to speak to you out loud, well then read his word out loud.
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: Right, you don't need to over-spiritualize what's going on.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: You don't need a word from the Lord to do the simple things of life.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: Love God.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: It was reported like this Love God and do whatever you want to do.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: But there's the caveat right, are you loving God?
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: Right, should I go to Disneyland?
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: Are you loving God?
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: Are you doing what you should?
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: Should I go to disneyland?
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: Are you loving god?
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: Are you doing what you?
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, go to disneyland.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: Do you know you're gonna get hate mail for that?
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: You know because you know talking about disneyland.
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: But there's just the idea of if you're loving on god, you're loving your family, you're a hard worker, you're providing and god's just enriching in his blessing.
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: Listen, what do you want to do?
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, don't overthink.
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: Now, there's nothing wrong with committing a lot of things to the Lord.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: I mean we should commit all things to the Lord, that we should be in continual contemplative prayer before the Lord as we do different things before God.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: But if you're asking, should I put on this shirt or this shirt?
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: What about?
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: this shirt?
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: What is this shirt?
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, is there stripes, what?
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: if I come across somebody who doesn't like stripes on a shirt.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: Boy, listen, there is freedom for you, brother, there is liberty for you and Mark.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: I can imagine some people listening right now, just like getting set free.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: Because, I'm telling you there are a lot who just have this misunderstanding of how we're to live.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, you think about it, paul talked about man.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: Be free to go into some pagan's house and eat whatever's set before you Like, just don't worry about it.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: But wait, this could have been sacrificed to an idol.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it could have been.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: Now he says, if they tell you, now you have knowledge and now, for their conscience sake, not yours, so they you know, but again, there's that latitude and that freedom in the Lord and man.
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: People need to be set free.
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: I want to make sure people, especially young adults, hear what you're saying, because often what happens is it's like those big decisions Sure, the small decision like a shirt, and that's hyperbole to a degree although sometimes it's not hyperbole but even the big decisions like what college should I go to, what career should I take, it's like what college should I go to?
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: What career should I take?
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: The freedom that is being offered to you is the realization that God's sovereignty isn't dependent upon your choice.
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: God's sovereignty is in the midst of what you decide to do, in other words, what the scripture invites us to do.
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: It's like what college do I go to?
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: Do I go to this college or that college?
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: The scriptures tell you.
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: It's like this.
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: I always imagine it's like this.
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: I always imagine it's like the Lord is putting two doors in front of you and he's saying whatever door you open, do it to the glory of God.
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: What college do you want to go to?
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: Go to the glory of God.
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: What career do you want to choose?
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: Choose it to the glory of God.
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: There is a freedom in the reality that God is inviting us to walk freely to the glory of God, yeah, amen and look.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: Obviously we pray over major issues.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: We seek the Lord, but God often will work through circumstances.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: You'll have other people confirm or even, naturally, you have a strong desire and this is not sinful, and if you go in that direction and the Lord had something else, he'll still use it together for the good.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: So you come across somebody who has two job offers and they're going wow, I don't want to choose poorly.
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: We commit our way to the Lord.
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: We trust also in Him.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: He's going to bring it to pass.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: So what does that prayer look like?
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: It's real simple.
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: It's, lord.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: I have these two job offers.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure which to do, and I just want to recognize the fact that I only want your will, and I don't know what it is.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: I'm willing to take the lesser pay yeah, that's good.
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: I'm willing to take the greater pay, I'm willing to relocate.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: I just want to say, lord, it's none of my business, it's above my pay grade.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: I commit it to you.
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: What do you want to do, lord?
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: Just make it happen".
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: Now you pause and you go.
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm gonna do this.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: And all the while you see that the Lord was directing you as you sought wisdom from the multitude of castlers.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: And then you look back and you go.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: I never would have guessed.
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: And God oftentimes will work very supernatural, in a very natural way.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: And Mark, that's the thing about not over-spiritualizing in the sense that people cast aside common means that God has given us to discover His will in certain ways.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: So it's like, no, no, I just pray and I need to hear God tell me what to do.
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: Versus, like God surrounded you with wise people.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: God has given you a brain to research.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: Is this good?
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: Is this not God's given you common sense to say, if I get this job and move to this area, will I be away from the church family?
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: That, I think, is more important for me.
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: So that's really key and let me just say I mean we're joking about getting hate mail about Disneyland and stuff I do want to say on this note, this Land and stuff I do want to say on this note, this is where it's important to recognize too, like that latitude within our liberties.
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: Like there may be some people in their conscience.
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: They can't do Disneyland or watch Disney movies.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: Obviously, we know that Disney has gone extreme on different things, right.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: So you have that liberty and you need to take it fully and freely.
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: What we're saying is don't now encroach on others, because I'll assure you of this, if you're going to be a stickler and be dogmatic and legalistic with other people on that.
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: They can find a hundred things in your life that are not consistent with that, because you may not go there but you may shop at Target.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: Do you know what Target is supporting?
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: Do you know what they're funding?
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: Do you know what you know?
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: Someone else may say you know something about Target and people going to the women's bathroom.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: Man, I just can't do it.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, but I'm fine to go to Disneyland, it doesn't bother me.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: Whatever, it doesn't always make sense.
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: So I have a little term.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: It's simple Leave people alone man.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: Leave people alone.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: Man Just walk with God, yeah unless it's overtly sinful.
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: Listen, things don't have to make sense in order to be God's will.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: I remember fighting for certain things, whether it be at this job or different places, and going this only makes sense to do this.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: I've thought about this through a million different ways.
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: I've sought counsel, I've played devil's advocate in the midst of this.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: There has to come a point when people perhaps are in charge of you that make decisions over you.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: Just trust the process, Allow people to be people, and then you'll look back and go wow, God was actually in control of that situation.
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: Even though it didn't make sense at the time, it makes sense now.
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: Easy.
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: You've got three things.
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: I'm going to quote you on Twitter later.
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: The first one was what you said earlier.
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: Do you remember it?
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: Mark is great.
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: No, you had a little thing and you were so excited.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I don't remember that Listen.
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: The second one is leave people alone.
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: And the third one is don't read your Bible.
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: Oh, my goodness, man, which he did say, did you, or did you not tell people to not read the Bible?
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: The worst thing you can do is read your.
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: Bible and to pray.
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: And share the gospel.
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: Oh man, I'm busted when.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: Ray's not here when the cat's away.
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: Oh man, yeah, what was it it's?
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: something about saying something.
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: It's amazing how much you can say Sad songs say so much, Whatever man, whatever Someone email that in, who's listening?
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: because I'm probably not going to find it in there.
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: But yeah, here's another area Forgetting the gifts of common grace.
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: So, as one example, maybe you guys can think of other ones.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, I don't know, man.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: I don't know about taking this medicine or getting this treatment.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna pray.
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: God heals me, right, that's over-spiritualizing.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the sick are in need of a physician.
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, just consider that I have an insurance plan that is out of this world.
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: I don't need to have insurance.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: That is a terrible way to think.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: If God has provided for you and you have the ability to get insurance, get insurance.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: I don't need fire insurance on my house.
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: I trust God, right?
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's all falls within that realm.
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: I remember hearing this analogy, this, whatever you wanna call it by a pastor, and he was like you've probably heard it before.
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: It's like there's this great flood that comes and this guy gets up on top of his roof and he's up there, he's praying God save me, god save me.
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: And passes by a guy in a canoe and he's like, hey, get in, I'll save you.
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: And he goes no, no, no, I'm waiting for God to save me.
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: And so he prays again God save me, god save me.
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: And he's like no, no, no, I'm praying the Lord's going to save me.
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: And a guy in a helicopter swings by and he's like, hey, lower, you know he lowers the line down.
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: Hey, grab on, we're here to save you.
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: And he's like no, I'm trusting the Lord, the Lord is going to save me, the Lord is going to save me.
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: And he ends up drowning and dying.
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: And the point is the Lord, through the common grace of modern medicine, through the common grace of tools and resources in our lives, provides ways for us to heal, to grow, to mature, to provide.
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: Those are all common grace gifts that the Lord gives to us.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, sometimes too, in the way that we pray, as an example.
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: Like Lord, I want to be faithful, I want to honor you with my life, I want to do this and that.
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: Sometimes, man, it reminds me of the guy on the side of the road with the all work for food sign.
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: Hey, bro, come over my house, I have a bunch of work for you to do.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: Nah, I'm good.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: No, that dude don't want to work for food.
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: He wants you to hand him the food, right?
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is that it's like, yeah, I'm waiting for the Lord to provide financially.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: Well, the Lord has provided you with an ability to work.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: Man, Go to work Like.
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: Go work your family's in need.
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: And Mark, Money is spiritual.
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: If a man does not provide for his own household, he is worse than an infidel.
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: He's denied the faith.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: There's spirituality involved in work and in providing for your family.
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it happens with ministries.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: It's like people treat their people so badly in Christian ministries they don't compensate them well, and it's like, oh, we're a ministry.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: Well, okay, I understand, Obviously we're a ministry when you use our money, but there are ministries that have the capacity but don't take care of their people.
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: That's spiritual and their turnover is every six months.
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's like man.
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: A man is called to provide and he's serving the Lord.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: And again, I'm not talking about exuberance and insanity and televangelists making millions of dollars, but I'm just talking reasonable when you have the capacity to do it, based on where you live.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, another one is over-spiritualizing suffering, right, oh, man, it's persecution, bro.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: When you're just being an idiot.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the enemy bro Right, Satan's attacking me.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: A lot of people do that.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: And it could be true, but then again, it could just be you making bad decisions.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: I got arrested.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: I'm being persecuted.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: Well, what were you doing when you got arrested?
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: Well, I was preaching the gospel in the middle of the movie theater.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: What are you doing, preaching the gospel?
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: Well, we are to preach the gospel in the middle of the movie theater.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: What are you doing, preaching the gospel?
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: Well, we are to preach the gospel to every creature, bro.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: That's what scripture says.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like, nah, I just think you're an idiot man.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: You made a poor decision right there.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and man, all of that is just.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: It's so important.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: We can go on on so many topics, but I think our friends listening today get the gist of it that you need to understand that we are called to be witnesses in the world.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: You know, the disciples are a great example of that.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: Obviously, they were in a specific context, walking with Jesus.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: We don't do everything they did in their certain areas, but even within their context, we saw them do natural things.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: They worked, they slept, they engaged in rest.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: They enjoy themselves.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, another area is the Christian who's like no man.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: I'm good.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: God's going to give me the strength I need.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: I don't need to sleep, I don't need to eat well, I don't need to exercise.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: The Lord is my strength.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: Brother, brother, brother.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: Oh, we haven't busted that one out in a while.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: Hey brother, yeah, but man, this is important.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: Right, we've laughed, we've joked, but ideas have consequences, and ideas and understanding and knowledge leads to action, and we need to remember that, man, we can really do a disservice to the reputation of our God in the eyes of the world because we're his representatives.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: And so don't think you're spiritual because your car is filthy and your house is dilapidated and your clothes are ragged and you're disheveled.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: All right, I'll wash them.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: Please, oscar, or you don't wear deodorant and you stink, right, you know?
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: I remember one of the first times I was hanging out with my wife Laura.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: We went to a Bible study and I was low on gas and so during the worship end of the service I went out and I filled the car up with gas and I came back and I had taken her to the Bible study.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: But I went over and I grabbed a big thing of water and I go oh yeah, we need to get gas.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: And I told her before remind me we need to get gas.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: So we're going out to the car and I pretended like I was pouring the water into the gas tank and I said I go where's your faith, sister?
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: The.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: Lord's going to turn that into gas, and so I poured it in and then we drove all the way back and I dropped her off home.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: She's like, wow, you are so bad, mark Spence.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: I was so tempted to just let her think, no, it was my faith sister.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: Oh dude, your wife needs to start rating your practical jokes, bro.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: Oh they'd be tense.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, zeros, all of them.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: All right, friends, boy, I was edified by that man.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: That's so good and I hope you were as well.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: Friends, be encouraged and talk about this.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: Look, sit down with your husband, your wife, your parents, your friends and just maybe ask them hey, do you feel that maybe I do some of this or not?
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: How do I come across?
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: Do you feel like I alienate the unbelievers in our lives?
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: Do you think I make brothers and sisters feel like they don't really want to be around me because I come across as super spiritual or condemning or whatever?
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: It's really important.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: And man, look, if that's where you're at, god's grace is sufficient.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: Cry out to Him and allow Him to mercifully guide you through it.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: He sympathizes with your weaknesses, even in that area.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: There you have it, friends.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: Don't forget Tract Starter Kit, right, that's what I talked about earlier.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I did.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: And the Living Waters Shorts check that out.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: Living Waters, mug, evidence, study Bible, living Waters TV all at livingwaterscom, podcasts at livingwaterscom, guys, we get a lot of emails.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: We love them.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: We love hearing your thoughts, even your criticisms.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: Send them in and do all that other stuff.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us, friends.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: We'll see you here next time on the Living Waters Podcast, where we have no idea what we're doing.