Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Chris Katulka: Biblical Context, True History, And Why We Must Support Israel

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Chris Katulka: Biblical Context, True History, And Why We Must Support Israel · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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defending biblical Christianity.
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No topic, off limits.
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And now, here's your host, David Fierazzo.
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Hey, friends.
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Thank you so much for watching.
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God bless you, and so go through the summertime.
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We just have some phenomenal guests, and new guests, like today, were just so blessed
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to have Chris Katalka with us.
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He's the director of North American Ministries, the Friends of Israel, today Radio Host as
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well.
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He oversees a team of Friends of Israel representatives who reside throughout the US and Canada after
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graduating from the Institute of Jewish Studies.
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He received his bachelors in the Bible from Karen University, and a Master's of Theology
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and Old Testament Studies from Dallas Theological Seminary.
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He serves as host and teacher of the Friends of Israel Today Radio Program, and also contributes
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to an editorial by monthly publication.
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But his book, we're going to talk about today, can't wait to jump into this.
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The book is called Israel Always, Experiencing God's Pursuit of You Through His Chosen People.
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Chris Katalka, welcome to World View Matters.
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Good to see you, brother.
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David, it's so great to be here.
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Thanks for having me.
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Yeah.
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Thanks for being here.
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We're looking forward to getting into the book, and it's interesting it came out a little
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over a year ago, and we're going to talk about that came out before October 7, but I'm
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thankful after going through some of the contents and some of what you wrote about.
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We desperately need America and the world and the church to be more educated, better informed
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on the truth about Israel.
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So before we go there to the book, tell us about Friends of Israel and the Gospel Ministry
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there.
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How long you've been with them, and what do you guys do?
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Well, I've been associated with Friends of Israel since 2000 actually, so almost 24 years
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I've been partnered with them.
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I did their Institute of Jewish Studies program, and that's when God grabbed my heart to minister
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to our Jewish friends and to stand alongside Israel and the Jewish people.
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And so that was a life-changing experience for me, and so Friends of Israel was founded
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long before I came to the Institute of Jewish Studies.
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It was founded in 1938 by Christian businessmen, pastors from the Philadelphia area, which is
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my hometown, and they saw a need.
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In 1938, you don't have to be a historian to know what was going on in 1938.
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In 1938, the Holocaust was ramping up, and really nobody was doing anything about it,
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David.
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Nobody.
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The US wasn't doing anything about it, communities in the United States weren't doing
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anything about it, but they kind of had an idea of what was going on.
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But it took a group of Christian businessmen and pastors who got together and said the
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word of God says that God loves His chosen people.
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I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you, Genesis 12.3.
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And they took that verse very personally, and so they started raising funds among churches
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all throughout the United States, and they would send those funds to help liberate Jewish
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people from Hitler's hands.
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And so that is really the origins of the Friends of Israel.
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It was originally called the Friends of Israel Refugee and Relief Society, and then after
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the war, there was a great need for the gospel to continue on.
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Really, we're still living out the mission that originated back in 1938.
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And so it's amazing that even today, you would think after 1938, the world would have dealt
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with the issue of anti-Semitism after the Holocaust.
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Here we are again, 80 years later, and we're still talking about the same issues.
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And in fact, we're seeing a repeat of the 1930s all over again.
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Yeah, it's just really almost unbelievable.
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If you didn't understand Satan and deception and spiritual warfare, it's almost unbelievable
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to see what's happening.
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And the ignorance, here's the sad part, Chris.
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I would love for you to speak to this for a moment.
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The ignorance of the church, Christians that should know Scripture, that should know
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the position on Israel that we should support God's chosen people.
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It's just so disappointing.
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What are your thoughts on that?
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You know, the statistics show that there is a biblical illiteracy in the church today.
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And that really is what lends to a lot of cultural issues in the church that we're dealing
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with.
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There's a myriad of them.
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And one of them, of course, is Israel and the Jewish people.
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Interestingly enough, one of the programs that we have with the Friends of Israel is
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called FOI Equip.
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It's free, live online learning.
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And we just had a class on anti-Semitism, and we titled it anti-Semitism, Nose No Party.
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And one of the really interesting lessons was that among conservatives, those who go to
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church and read their Bible, they have the highest rate of people who love and support
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Israel and the Jewish people.
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So it's a biblical issue.
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The issue at hand is the fact that the Bible really is not being taught, which I think
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is something we're going to talk about today as we look at maybe Genesis chapter 12.
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But there's a real, there is a foundation to the scriptures that is built on what God
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had promised to his chosen people, the Jewish people.
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And if you understand that, it gives light to the truth of God's word and how it impacts
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our hearts.
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That's why the book Israel always talks about not only the God's promise to Abraham,
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but how that promise influences us as believers.
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We're experiencing God's pursuit through his chosen people.
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It's our relationship with God.
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It's amazing how it's connected to God's promise to Israel and the Jewish people.
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So Chris, tell us about conferences.
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I see on the page, there's conferences that people can attend and go to, I know there's
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some coming up late this summer in September as well.
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A lot of great topics, very important and needed topics.
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Tell us about the conferences that friends of Israel put on.
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For decades, David, friends of Israel has been teaching prophetic conferences all throughout
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the country.
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But we have a few different options for people.
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The first is our one day conferences called Prophecy of Close Conferences.
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These can be hosted at your local church and we look at issues surrounding Israel and
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the Jewish people.
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We look at God's prophetic word.
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We walk through the various elements of God's prophetic word.
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And then that's a one day conference for people to come to.
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Then we also have our two day conferences.
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That's called our proclaimed conference.
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That dies more deeply into God's prophetic truth.
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In fact, we're looking at the messianic prophecies right now as we travel from place to place.
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And speaking in various places, so your watchers, your listeners, they can go to
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fy.org and there they can find a link and they can see if there is a conference coming
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near them.
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And if they'd like a conference at their church because they'd like to see the church
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die in the God's prophetic word, support Israel and the Jewish people, then we can host
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those procl others prophecy of close conferences right in your local church.
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And there's a great video right on the page on the website, friendsvisual.org, under what
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we do, it's under Israel's resilience, the struggle to survive.
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And I first of all, I'm just impressed that you guys have been around since the 1930s.
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What a crucial time to get on board and support Israel when there was a little bit of confusion.
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And I don't think, you know, giving Americans the benefit of the doubt, I don't think we
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were getting the news about the truth of what was really going on over there.
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But let's bring it up to today now and transition to your book.
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You wrote this early last year.
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What can you say about being thankful for some of the contents knowing now, looking back
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what happened October 7 and the horrific demonic attacks by Hamas on Israel and things
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we never thought we would see.
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Your book is very important to even help people understand better how we can support Israel
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and why we should as the church.
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Go ahead and share your thoughts on that.
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The thing I love about the design of the book is that oftentimes when you study Israel
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and the Jewish people, you look at it in several different ways.
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You can study biblical history about Israel and so you'll read a book about biblical history
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from the Old Testament or even maybe the New Testament.
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Or you can read about the modern state of Israel and how the modern state of Israel came
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into existence.
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And there are plenty of books written about that.
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And then you can also read about Israel's prophetic future.
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And there are a myriad of books written about that as well.
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What this book does is it condenses it all into one picture, Israel always, from the promise
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that God made to Abraham to the prophetic hope that the Jewish people have according
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to the scriptures, all of it and in between, even the modern state of Israel.
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So thinking about October 7th, there are so many chapters in that book that are dedicated
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specifically to understanding the neighborhood that Israel lives in, understanding their enemies
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like Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, understanding the issues at play, all of the times that Israel
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has attempted to make peace with its neighbors throughout its existence in 1947 actually.
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1948 is when they became a country, 1947 is when the UN partitioned the land and the
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Jewish people said, yes, we'll take it.
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And the Arab nations said, no, thank you.
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So again, right back from the very origins of the modern state of Israel, one of the things
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I want to communicate to the reader is Israel has always had a desire to make peace, not
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only with the Palestinians that are in their, right in their, in their, in their
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rounder country, but also the, the surrounding Arab world as well.
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So a lot of these things are important to understanding what we see on the news.
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And so I try to, I try to highlight that, but then I also highlight Israeli politics.
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And if you want to try to figure out a conundrum, it's trying to figure out Israeli politics.
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And so I try to make it as easy as possible to understand the party system, the parliamentary
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system that they use, because it really does play an important role in how we understand
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what's going on right now in Israel when you're thinking about Benjamin Netanyahu and you're
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thinking about a new prime minister that could be coming up on the scene soon and you're
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thinking about party transitions that you might be reading about in the news.
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You know, when we try to formulate that in our American mind with the way that we do
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politics, it's a complete, it's apples and oranges.
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And so that is one of the things that's really important to understand what's going on in Israel
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internally and also how they're dealing with the neighbors around them and the neighborhood
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they live in.
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I think Israel always is a great way to go.
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Oh, I, I see that now.
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I understand now how all these, these pieces fit in with one another.
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Yeah, I love the way it's laid out three different parts, 21 chapters for the people
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at home.
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I just want to just share some of the table of contents in the chapters.
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He starts, Chris starts with the biblical story of the Jews, the promised land, the temple,
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the exile, return, jumping ahead a little bit.
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The modern founders of Israel, then chapter eight, the Holocaust, chapter nine, the rebirth
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of Israel hanging on by a thread, then other chapters outnumbered on the Yom Kippur
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War.
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In fact, you know, let's talk a little bit and then you talk about the miracle of Israel
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in the politics.
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Touch on the Yom Kippur War.
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That was another miracle where if I'm not mistaken, golden my ear made that 3 a.m. phone
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call to President Richard Nixon in the White House and he gave, and there was something about
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his mom, Richard Nixon's mom that told him that when he was older, he will be in a position
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to help Israel.
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And when he was asked, he was to do it.
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Did you, have you heard that story, you should just share whatever you want about that chapter?
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Yeah, you know, number one, the Yom Kippur War, to me, is a similar story to the Sixth
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Day War and a similar story to the Independence War.
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It was all the idea that Israel was either outnumbered, outgunned, or even outmaneuvered
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in the sense that the Yom Kippur War was a sneak attack.
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It was Yom Kippur's the holiest day in the Jewish calendar and that's when they were attacked.
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And so caught off guard, even though they knew it was coming, golden my ear, knew that
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she there was a war that was imminent, you know, there are so many American leaders who
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actually relied on their biblical upbringing when it came to the modern state of Israel.
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You go back to Harry Truman, you know, Harry Truman in the beginning really didn't want
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to think much about a Jewish state coming into existence.
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He wasn't that excited about it.
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That's a whole other episode to talk about Harry Truman and the influences that he had.
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But one of the things that really struck him was his biblical upbringing and understanding
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the importance of Israel and the Jewish people.
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And so that influenced his decision to be the first world leader except the Jewish state.
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Even though every advisor that he worked with said it's a suicide mission for them, don't
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do it.
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He did it despite all of his advisors saying no.
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And why?
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Because he wanted to be like Cyrus.
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He wanted to have this biblical and he understood the biblical significance of it.
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And so again, the same thing you see throughout presidential history, even going back to the
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early presidents, David, the early presidents, like John Adams were writing about the importance
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of the Jewish people and a reconstituted Jewish state long before, long before Israel, there
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were ever movements moving Jewish people back into the land.
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And so again, the American culture, the American desire is not just this American thing.
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It's a biblical thing.
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There have been, again, that's why we go back to the importance of biblical literacy understanding
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the Bible.
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These presidents grew up in Sunday school with good Bible teaching, for think about it,
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from what Sunday school teacher do you think Truman might have had?
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It was probably some older woman that was taking him through the scriptures as he was
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growing up to think that the influence of his Sunday school classes and Sunday sermons
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had an influence on, you know what, the Jewish people, they're, they're going to have a
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homeland.
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And I'll be the first president, I'll be the first world leader to approve it.
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And that's just an amazing thing to think about.
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Yeah.
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It really just, I'm a miraculous.
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I mean, and it is the birth of a nation as Isaiah writes, can a nation be born in a day?
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Yes.
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Yes.
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With God.
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Yes.
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With God.
14:51
Patrons of Israel Gospel Ministry will be right back on World View Matters.
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We're with Christopher Katalka, I call him Chris because we're on a first name basis
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now, right Chris?
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That's exactly right.
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Yeah.
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Before we get to Genesis 12, I'm diving into that a little bit more.
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I want to go back to your website and one of the conference sessions, and have you speak
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to this, there's a fascinating title, the rejection, Muslim and Christian replacement theology.
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So does it.
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And again, that comes back to the biblical illiteracy in the church today.
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But could you speak to that about Christian replacement theology?
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Yeah.
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It's a Christian replacement theology.
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And replacement theology means that there is a way that you interpret the Bible that says
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that once the Jewish people rejected Jesus, God moved his promises to the church away
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from the Jewish people.
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And so what's interesting is that the church gets all the blessings, but none of the cursings
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of course, that come up being a chosen person, but Jewish people, exactly, very convenient,
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but the Jewish people get all of the cursings.
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And so it's, and the church ultimately replaces Israel.
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You see this in the Catholic church.
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You know, think about it.
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We move from Jerusalem to Rome.
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There's a high priestly like figure, like the Pope.
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You have, when you walk into the Basilica in Rome, you walk into the Vatican.
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You see almost a, almost a holy and holy type of experience, priest walking around.
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Rome almost becomes the new Jerusalem.
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They've literally almost copied the, the biblical structure and moved it into the, the Christian
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world.
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They've replaced Israel.
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And that, that way of interpreting the Bible actually goes back to the earliest parts
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of the church, to the second and even third century AD, when certain church fathers were
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beginning to, you know, write commentaries that would ultimately change the way that
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they understood the church and its relationship to Israel and the Jewish people, especially
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as Jewish people became less of an influence in the early church.
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Remember the first church were all Jewish people in the book of Acts, as Gentiles were
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trickling in.
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Then once that flip happened, there was an abandoned, they abandoned essentially the Jewish
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people and took off on their own, essentially saying, we've replaced God's chosen people.
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We are Israel now.
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And you still see that in many mainline denominations, even evangelical churches, this replacement theology.
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And that will drastically influence the way that you read the Bible, drastically.
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The other is Muslim replacement, which basically, it's not even just a replacement.
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It's a repudiation of the Jewish people.
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They are the problem.
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They are the pigs.
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They need to be taken care of.
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It's a complete upending of the text.
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You know, the Muslims have had an interesting position.
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They come into existence when the New Testament and Old Testament were canon.
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And so they were able to take whatever they wanted to rework it and fashion it to whatever
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they wanted it to look.
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So no longer is Isaac, the promised son, but Ishmael is the promised son.
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They even understand Jesus, Jesus is a prophet.
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He didn't die and rise again, but he was a great prophet, who was one day of some, for
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some reason, coming back again, but again, not of the significance that, as Christians,
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we believe him to be God.
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But for them, no, there is no God but Allah.
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And the Jewish people are the problem with the world as it's written in their text.
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So again, this replacement perspective of who are God's people.
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When really the amazing thing about the Bible is that a lot of times when we go to Genesis
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chapter 12, David, when you go there and you see what God promised Abraham, it can sometimes
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feel like when you hear someone called the chosen people, that sounds like an elitist
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club, you know, like a country club, excuse me, your God's chosen people.
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I hope I'm invited in, you know, that kind of thing.
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But I always like to say, you know, I sometimes choose my, one of my four kids to take out
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the trash and you know what, choosing isn't always the greatest responsibility.
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Hey, you know what, Cohen, that's my son, you're going to take the trash out today.
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I can't tell you how many times he's grumbled about doing that or clean this up to my daughter.
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No, thank you.
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I don't want that job.
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God chose the Jewish people.
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He promised them the land and then we'll talk about this more descendants, but also a blessing
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and that this promise was not just for Israel and the Jewish people.
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It was a promise that would bless all the families of the earth.
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We are beneficiaries of a promise that God made choosing the Jewish people.
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That should radically alter the way that we think about what it means to be chosen and
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how the world fits into what God was promising to Abraham in Genesis chapter 12.
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Yeah, and the record of what they went through in the wilderness when they didn't obey and
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all the struggles in the hard time.
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So to say that they're chosen, my goodness, they sure went through it.
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But let's go back to Genesis 12, which starts by, you know, Abraham's on his way to Egypt.
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It starts by saying, now the Lord said to Abram, go forth from your country and from your
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relatives and from your father's house to the land I will show you and I will make you
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a great nation and I will bless you and make your name great.
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And so you shall be a blessing and 12 verse three.
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And I will bless those who bless you and the one who curses you, I will curse.
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And in you, all the families of the earth will be blessed.
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So it's not just talking about the Jewish people.
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All the families of the earth will be blessed somehow through Abraham.
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And that's just just such a great passage of scripture that we forget about.
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Go ahead, Chris.
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Yeah, there's three things in that in that promise that God made to Abraham if he would step
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out in faith.
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No, it's all predicated on the faith of Abraham, leaving behind everything he knew to follow
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God.
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And so when Abraham steps out, he promises him or God promises Abraham three things, land,
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the land of Israel.
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That's really important.
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The land, a lot of times what we do, especially in Christianity, is we go, oh, God's not in
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the real estate business, you know, let's, we don't have to talk about a land anymore.
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When in reality, if you read through the Bible, the entire Bible, you'll see that the land
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is basically a character in the Bible.
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It plays a major role in the scriptures for the land, the land of Israel, he promised him,
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a descendants, the Jewish people.
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You will have descendants, a seed that comes from you, a nation that would come from you.
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Why?
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Because a land that I'm giving you needs of people, a nation to inhabit that land, Abraham,
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you will be a blessing.
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That means every time we say the name of Abraham, his name would be associated with blessing.
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Here we are, 4500 years later doing what?
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Blessing the name of Abraham.
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Why?
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Because God made him a blessed man.
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He is the, if you want to understand what blessing means, just look to Abraham.
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The second thing is a blessing of protection.
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I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you.
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That's not just a church.
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That's anybody.
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That's anybody.
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Any nation.
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That's the big thing.
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It doesn't have to be Christians, all nations, that's what he's saying.
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And the third thing is his divine, or his last thing is his divine promise.
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He promised him that through you, Abraham, it's not just for you that I'm choosing you.
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Actually, I didn't choose you because you're great.
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I chose you because you're small.
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I'm choosing you because through you, you will bring blessings, the message of salvation
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to all the families of the earth.
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It's a divine promise, not just for Jewish people, but that it would be spread.
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And here's the thing, the Paul, Paul, and the letter to the Galatians, I like what is
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that blessing?
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Well, through the Abraham lineage comes Jesus, the Jewish Messiah, David, I always like
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to remind my non-Jewish friends, you believe in a Jewish Messiah.
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Think about that.
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A Jewish Messiah.
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You are grafted into the olive tree because of what Christ, the Jewish Messiah, has done.
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And so that becomes so important to understanding why God made this promise.
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It's not just for the Jewish people, it's that through the Jewish people, all the nations
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would come to know who the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is.
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And I carry this Bible around with me, and I go places with it, and I preach from it.
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And you know what this Bible is that we all carry with us, the church, Sunday school,
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Bible studies?
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It's Jewish from the Old Testament to the New Testament.
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It's Jewish through and through.
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I am a Gentile, and I read a Jewish book and believe in a Jewish Messiah.
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Why?
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Because God made a promise to Abraham.
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Amen.
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Amen.
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I'm just thankful for all the messianic prophecies, too, that Jesus coming from the line
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of David.
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And that's why the Bible is very meticulous about ancestry and generations and things like
24:56
that.
24:57
But let's go back to, first of all, friends, the book is on Amazon.
25:01
Can they get it on the Friends of Israel website, too?
25:04
Yes.
25:05
You can get on the Friends of Israel website at F-O-I dot O-R-G.
25:08
They can also get it at Amazon as well.
25:11
Great.
25:12
Israel always experiencing God's pursuit of you through his chosen people.
25:17
It's just fascinating.
25:18
I'm thinking of Romans 9 through 11.
25:22
And there's so many different parts of the Bible.
25:24
You mentioned Galatians.
25:25
There's so many different parts that you really have to do.
25:29
I don't know, mental, theological gymnastics to take out the context or make it mean something
25:37
that it doesn't or interpret it in a different way.
25:39
It really is sad, which makes Bible studies so much more important.
25:42
But I just want to read a line in the description that the book is insightful and informative
25:48
and will enrich your understanding of the Bible, enhance your appreciation for Israel.
25:54
Thank you.
25:55
Celebrate your awareness of God's steadfast love for all his people, including you today.
26:00
So, Chris, in the last minute and a half, I'll just let you share whatever you'd like
26:03
about Israel, about the Friends of Israel, whatever you'd like.
26:07
Go ahead.
26:08
Yeah.
26:09
You know, I would like to invite those who are watching and listening.
26:12
If they go to our website, F-O-I dot O-R-G, they can actually receive a one-year free subscription
26:19
to our award-winning Christian magazine, Israel, Mike Glory.
26:23
Israel, Mike Glory, it takes all the teachings that we've been talking about today and all
26:28
the conferences, really everything.
26:29
It's a bi-monthly Christian magazine that's been in publication since 1942.
26:35
And so, if you'd like to receive a one-year free subscription to Israel, Mike Glory,
26:40
just go to our website, F-O-I dot O-R-G, and there you'll find a link to Israel, Mike Glory.
26:44
When you search around, there it is, right there.
26:47
And when you sign up, if you've never signed up for it before, we want to give you a one-year
26:52
free subscription. On top of that, if you get the digital edition, you actually get like 50 years,
26:59
or 45 plus years of Israel, Mike Glory content, right at your fingertips, talking about the importance
27:04
of Israel and the Bible, talking about what it means to be a Christian Zionist.
27:08
And also, what it means to believe in Jesus, the Jewish Messiah, the power of the gospel,
27:13
as you see there in that image. And so, again, if they just go to F-O-I dot O-R-G,
27:17
they'll be able to get a one-year free subscription to that magazine, Israel, Mike Glory.
27:22
Awesome. Chris Katalka, I also want to mention your YouTube channel, the Friends of Israel Gospel
27:27
Ministry. You can go subscribe and check those out as well. Lord willing, we'll do this again.
27:31
We appreciate your time, brother. Thank you.
27:34
Thank you, David.
27:35
All right. Friends, thanks for sharing the podcast and for your prayers and support. God bless you,
27:39
and as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.