Latest / The Higher Pursuit Podcast / Make the Decision | How to grow in discernment, stop overthinking & move forward

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Make the Decision | How to grow in discernment, stop overthinking & move forward · The Higher Pursuit Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Come on, talk about that.
0:01
SPEAKER_01: And our desire for certainty is a really a desire for to be omniscient.
0:08
SPEAKER_04: I thought everybody heard that.
0:10
SPEAKER_04: Say that again.
0:14
SPEAKER_04: Our desire for certainty is what?
0:16
SPEAKER_01: To be omniscient.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: To be an omniscient is one of these big words that gets attributed to God.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: It means to have unlimited, complete, or infinite knowledge.
0:26
SPEAKER_01: And it's one of the characteristics that is uniquely God, not us.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: Life does not give us control over everything.
0:34
SPEAKER_01: This is it.
0:35
SPEAKER_01: Wisdom isn't about finding the perfect decision.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: Wisdom is about trusting God enough to take the next faithful step.
0:43
SPEAKER_01: Wisdom is trust.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: God isn't asking you to make perfect decisions, He's inviting you into a trusting relationship.
0:51
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
0:52
SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah.
0:53
SPEAKER_04: So, Brenda, as you're talking, you know, here's something I really want our viewers to catch.
0:57
SPEAKER_04: Fear can sometimes masquerade as discernment.
1:00
SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
1:01
SPEAKER_04: And we can tell ourselves, I'm just waiting on the Lord.
1:04
SPEAKER_04: But sometimes we're not waiting on God because God hasn't told us to.com.
1:46
SPEAKER_04: You can also find me on YouTube at Cecily LaChapelle with Higher Pursuit Ministries.
1:51
SPEAKER_04: Okay, now let's dive into the podcast.
1:59
SPEAKER_04: Hey everyone, welcome to the Higher Pursuit live stream.
2:03
SPEAKER_04: I'm Cecily LaChapelle, and I am so glad that you're here with us tonight.
2:09
SPEAKER_04: Well, let me ask you a question before we get started.
2:12
SPEAKER_04: Have you ever been so afraid of making the wrong decision that you ended up making no decision at all?
2:19
SPEAKER_04: You stand at the fork in the road like a deer in headlights.
2:23
SPEAKER_04: You pray about it, you think about it, you ask God for direction, and then you ask Him for one more confirmation.
2:30
SPEAKER_04: And before you know it, what started as a sincere desire to follow God has turned into overthinking, second guessing, and sometimes even analysis paralysis.
2:44
SPEAKER_04: If you've been there or maybe you're there right now, tonight's conversation is for you.
2:51
SPEAKER_04: My guest is Brenda Seafeld, and we're going to be talking about make the decision, how to grow in discernment, stop overthinking, and move forward.
3:01
SPEAKER_04: I love this subject because I have personally struggled with the difference between waiting on God and being afraid to move.
3:09
SPEAKER_04: We absolutely want to seek God, don't we?
3:12
SPEAKER_04: We want to listen to his voice, we search his word, we invite wise counsel into our lives.
3:17
SPEAKER_04: But then there comes the moment when faith requires us to take the next step.
3:24
SPEAKER_04: So tonight, Brenda and I are going to talk about how we grow in biblical discernment, what to do when God doesn't seem to be giving us a clear answer, how perfectionism can keep us stuck.
3:36
SPEAKER_04: I don't know anything about that.
3:37
SPEAKER_04: I've just heard people talk about it.
3:39
SPEAKER_04: And what happens when we make a decision and later realize, oh, maybe I didn't get that one right.
3:46
SPEAKER_04: And Brenda said something in our first conversation last week that I can't wait for her to unpack, y'all.
3:52
SPEAKER_04: She said, God is not fragile.
3:55
SPEAKER_04: So that is such a good word.
3:57
SPEAKER_04: I just want to welcome a few people.
3:59
SPEAKER_04: We have got someone who is calling Brenda Ma.
4:02
SPEAKER_04: She says, tuning in from Woodbridge, Virginia.
4:07
SPEAKER_04: And then John LaChapelle, my husband, says he's tuning in from our living room in Portsmouth.
4:12
SPEAKER_04: Lisa is on the chat.
4:13
SPEAKER_04: Lisa and Linda and DeLisa says, Hi, so glad to be here.
4:17
SPEAKER_04: Yes, and she absolutely has struggled with this.
4:20
SPEAKER_04: This is so good, you guys.
4:22
SPEAKER_04: So, friends, before we go any further, those of you who are watching live, you've already started saying hello in the comments and telling us where you're watching from.
4:30
SPEAKER_04: So keep that going.
4:31
SPEAKER_04: But here's another question.
4:33
SPEAKER_04: Are you currently facing a decision?
4:35
SPEAKER_04: You don't have to tell us what it is, but just type decision in the comments.
4:41
SPEAKER_04: I think you're going to discover that you are not alone in the room tonight.
4:46
SPEAKER_04: So before we jump into our conversation, I do need to tell you a little bit about my guest, Brenda, the lovely lady here in the room with me.
4:55
SPEAKER_04: Brenda is a pastor.
4:57
SPEAKER_04: She is author of the Bible study, Trust Issues with God, and a speaker who has spent 40 years in youth ministry and is now leading a non-traditional church cart called Larger Story Church, with a heart to reach those who have given up on church, as well as teens and young adults who haven't yet found a church home.
5:18
SPEAKER_04: So cool.
5:19
SPEAKER_04: So, Brenda, I am so glad to have you with me on the Higher Pursuit tonight.
5:24
SPEAKER_04: Welcome.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you for that grand welcome.
5:27
SPEAKER_01: And I am real excited to be here.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: We have been talking quite a bit, Cecily and I.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: So you guys are in for a conversation between the two of us.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: And just over here, jump in with some questions and comments because we're going to be talking a lot.
5:43
SPEAKER_04: Yes, absolutely.
5:45
SPEAKER_04: I'm so excited.
5:47
SPEAKER_04: So before we get into our subject, I always like to color inside the lines of the professional bio a little bit.
5:53
SPEAKER_04: So tell us who you are, a little bit more about you.
5:57
SPEAKER_04: I mean, for instance, your love of football.
6:00
SPEAKER_04: Why don't you talk about that?
6:01
SPEAKER_04: And then tell us who do you serve?
6:04
SPEAKER_01: As a football, I serve God, but my football team is a Minnesota Vikings.
6:09
SPEAKER_01: I grew up in I grew up in Minnesota.
6:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I have been living out here in the Washington, DC area for 40 years now.
6:17
SPEAKER_01: This is where God called me.
6:18
SPEAKER_01: I became a pastor very young.
6:21
SPEAKER_01: I had a lot of open doors given to me and I was very young.
6:25
SPEAKER_01: So my whole adult life, this is all I have been as a pastor.
6:29
SPEAKER_01: Um pastor for 40 years, and then during COVID is when um I got laid off of my church and we started this church called Larger Story.
6:38
SPEAKER_01: It's um that's a whole thing.
6:40
SPEAKER_01: We'll get to that later on.
6:42
SPEAKER_01: But who am I?
6:44
SPEAKER_01: My husband, John, and I have a love of football, and this is what we do together.
6:50
SPEAKER_01: And since this last weekend was the opening weekend of the NFL, we had a wonderful weekend together, doing what we do together for Wednesday night, Thursday night, Sunday, three games on Sunday, one game on Sunday.
7:07
SPEAKER_01: We spent a lot of time together.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: It's heaven, it's heaven, it's heaven.
7:11
SPEAKER_04: It's so fun watching football with your spouse.
7:14
SPEAKER_04: It's so great.
7:15
SPEAKER_01: It's what I did before I got married.
7:16
SPEAKER_01: I got married when I was older.
7:18
SPEAKER_01: I was 33 when I got married.
7:19
SPEAKER_01: I was youth ministry for 15 years as a single person.
7:23
SPEAKER_01: That's a whole story.
7:24
SPEAKER_01: Um and then I got married and he liked football, and I liked football, and this is what we do.
7:30
SPEAKER_04: So my husband is probably chuckling as he's listening to this because he actually wrote out a list when he stopped dating and decided he was going to wait for God to bring his mate.
7:39
SPEAKER_04: He wrote out a two-page list of things that she needed to be, and one of them was that she needed to love football.
7:45
SPEAKER_04: And so the very first time he had my parents and I over, he cooked barbecue chicken out on the out on the deck or whatever, and he had football on.
7:53
SPEAKER_04: And all I wanted to do is sit on the couch and watch football.
7:56
SPEAKER_04: And my mom goes, She loves football.
7:59
SPEAKER_04: She's cried again.
8:09
SPEAKER_02: It was so cute.
8:11
SPEAKER_02: My husband just put a football and a smile in the chat.
8:14
SPEAKER_02: It's very I I feel your sister.
8:18
SPEAKER_02: That was something that brought us together too.
8:20
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
8:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:22
SPEAKER_01: Actually, I think my husband is so happy.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: I liked I watch football more than him.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: He's so happy about it.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: He he just he can't believe this is his life.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: He just can't believe that he gets to watch football and not anybody yelling at him about it.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: It's a match made in heaven.
8:39
SPEAKER_01: I feel you there.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: Well, if if you knew our story, you would also say that.
8:44
SPEAKER_01: There's a match I never saw coming.
8:47
SPEAKER_04: Again, I I totally hear you on that too.
8:51
SPEAKER_04: I never saw it coming.
8:52
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
8:53
SPEAKER_04: I I thought that my marriage days were over, but God had other plans and he brought just the perfect guy for me.
9:00
SPEAKER_04: Well, Brenda, tonight we're talking about making decisions and why it can be so difficult and how to get unstuck from decision-making paralysis.
9:10
SPEAKER_04: So I know you recently taught about this.
9:12
SPEAKER_04: So, what made you begin teaching about decision making and discernment?
9:16
SPEAKER_04: So, what were you seeing in the people that you pastor that made you realize we need to talk about this?
9:23
SPEAKER_01: Well, I, you know, youth and young adults are always in this decision-making mode and they're making decisions.
9:30
SPEAKER_01: I just wanted to teach them how to do this.
9:32
SPEAKER_01: And then so are others.
9:34
SPEAKER_01: And so I just we just finished up um Ecclesiastes at our church.
9:41
SPEAKER_01: Let me just say we went through that verse by verse.
9:44
SPEAKER_01: The book of Ecclesiastes.
9:46
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
9:46
SPEAKER_01: That was about 15 weeks we appreciate and also can't believe we did it at the same time.
9:54
SPEAKER_01: But part of Ecclesiastes is wisdom.
9:57
SPEAKER_01: And then I we got done and we had so much wisdom inside of us, but then how do you apply the wisdom?
10:03
SPEAKER_01: And that's that's what I decided to give us.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: Like we had a little break in between series, another break, and then um get into this series, which we're in right now.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: Because I just wanted to get back into the practice because Ecclesiastes taught us the book Ecclesiastes, which was fabulous, it might be our church's favorite book for quite a while.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: It really gave us this larger story perspective, which our church is called larger story, about God, and how if we if you fear God, which is what how the book ends, and how the book has a streamline all the way through, that's what matters.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: Wealth, pleasure, you know, laziness, all of that was in there.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: But you gotta go back to fearing God.
10:49
SPEAKER_01: That's your perspective, and then you can deal with all the other heavil, or which is the word futility or re or meaningless in English, but the Hebrew word is heavel, which we know we say all the time.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: Whenever we get up, you get unindicted, uninundated.
11:03
SPEAKER_01: It's all just heavel.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: It's all just heavel.
11:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:06
SPEAKER_02: Wow, I love it.
11:07
SPEAKER_02: New favorite word.
11:08
SPEAKER_01: It's you make sense when you've been in my church.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: We understand that so well because we dealt with all the heavily, like headline anxiety, we dealt with that.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: All of it is just heavily.
11:18
SPEAKER_01: You just got to come back to fear and God.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: That's what matters.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: That's what Ecclesiastes teaches us through all those.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: It was a it was a great study.
11:28
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
11:28
SPEAKER_04: Well, speaking of fear of God, do you think that that plays a part in why Christians become so afraid of making the wrong decision?
11:35
SPEAKER_04: Do you think that sometimes we almost treat God's will like um like a tightrope, like one wrong step, and somehow we've ruined his plan for our lives?
11:44
SPEAKER_04: Do we do you think that that where is that thinking wrong?
11:47
SPEAKER_01: That's absolutely absolutely dead on.
11:50
SPEAKER_01: And this is where I said to you, and I'm gonna bring it up already God is not fragile.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: God is when we make a decision that is to the left or to the right, it doesn't even matter because our decisions are grand, but they're also not grand at the same time.
12:08
SPEAKER_01: You know, we don't come on, we don't disrupt heaven when we make a decision, we're just on God's path.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: And God is not fragile where he's well, oh, there goes the whole plan I had for eternity because Brenda made this decision.
12:22
SPEAKER_01: No, he is put it this way God is love, right?
12:28
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we that's one of the very definitions of God.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: He is love.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: God's being and nature are consensual.
12:37
SPEAKER_01: It must be so because love is consensual.
12:41
SPEAKER_01: Love, true love cannot be coerced.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: There's not just one way, and if you lost it, you've lost it.
12:48
SPEAKER_01: True love emerges in participation.
12:52
SPEAKER_01: So God invites our participation into our lives.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: Um he enjoys participating in our lives.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: And this is this is the whole design of love.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: The more he participates, the more I mean his love is already grand as it is.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: I can't say he loves you more.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: He just invites that participation so that we are with him by our choice, by our will.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: And we're he wants to participate with us.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: And let me just add God is generous.
13:24
SPEAKER_01: Let me add another perspective here.
13:25
SPEAKER_01: James 1:5 says, if you need wisdom, ask our generous God.
13:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he will give it to you.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: He will not rebuke you for asking.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: Right.
13:37
SPEAKER_01: Do you see the very partnership in that?
13:39
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: So I think if we think we're on this tightrope, our view of God is wrong.
13:46
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
13:48
SPEAKER_01: And if we see this generous God, and then we gotta think about this.
13:54
SPEAKER_01: Every choice we make is not irreversible.
14:00
SPEAKER_01: God is always redeeming everything.
14:03
SPEAKER_01: One of the names of God again is Redeemer.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, redeeming everything.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: We can't go so far in our decision making that we're really outside of God's will.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: Really think about it.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: Can't go so far.
14:16
SPEAKER_01: The Christian life is not a limited path, it's not small, it's a very wide and forgiving path.
14:23
SPEAKER_01: Psalm 8 1836 says, You have made a wide path for my feet to keep them from slipping.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: Who made the path?
14:35
SPEAKER_01: The Lord, yeah.
14:36
SPEAKER_01: Yes, he wants because he wants us to be involved with him on this path.
14:41
SPEAKER_01: So I think we have a lot of room here to continue to be in participation with God in our lives.
14:50
SPEAKER_04: And especially, you know, what I think about is that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
14:56
SPEAKER_04: And so when a person usually I can, I'll just use myself as an example.
15:02
SPEAKER_04: When I am driving myself crazy over a decision, it's because I don't want to displease the Lord.
15:09
SPEAKER_04: It's because I want to please him, I want to stay in his will, I want whatever his best is for me.
15:17
SPEAKER_04: And I'm scared, for lack of a better word, that I'm going to blow that, that I'm going to selfishly choose what I want.
15:25
SPEAKER_04: And then I'm going to get off on this trail that to your point that I'm is just going to blow up God's will for me.
15:32
SPEAKER_04: And then God's going to be up there scratching his head, going, Well, now what do I do?
15:37
SPEAKER_04: Like, I can't believe she made that choice that's irreversible.
15:41
SPEAKER_04: Um, that's gonna set her back 15 years.
15:44
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I don't even know.
15:45
SPEAKER_04: She'll be 85, you know, in a walk with a walker by the time she gets back onto this path.
15:51
SPEAKER_04: You know, Michael, Gabriel, do you have any ideas?
15:53
SPEAKER_04: You know, I feel like that's it's funny to say it like that, but when you're in the middle of making a decision, it's not funny.
16:01
SPEAKER_04: No, you just revealed truth there.
16:03
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
16:04
SPEAKER_04: You you because and it's because we love God.
16:07
SPEAKER_04: Now, I think if we didn't love the Lord, and if we thought, I just want to do whatever I'm gonna do, I think we can step out of God's will.
16:14
SPEAKER_04: But we're talking to people who are stressing over decisions because they want to be in God's will, because you want to be walking in the path where his light is shining.
16:29
SPEAKER_04: So I do have another question for you.
16:31
SPEAKER_04: How do we distinguish between biblical discernment and overthinking?
16:36
SPEAKER_04: And is there a point where continually waiting on God can actually become fear or avoidance that we just, I don't know, put a little costume of spirituality on?
16:48
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, there are two kinds of people basically, ones who have just make quick decisions and those who will ruminate forever.
17:00
SPEAKER_01: Both of those, if you look at the root, are both of those are are based in fear.
17:05
SPEAKER_01: The people who make in the quick decisions don't want to be bothered, they just want to make the decision.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: If I just jump and do it, I don't have to spend a lot of time wondering about it and whatever.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: Again, there's they don't want to take the time to just seek wisdom and maybe ask for help because it means you have to ask for help and that puts you in need.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: You just want to jump to it, you know, and then the ruminating and just paralyzing yourself.
17:31
SPEAKER_01: Oh, this this feels this feels responsible and it does feel spiritual.
17:39
SPEAKER_01: It does, but it does feel that way.
17:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it does.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: But this is our desire for certainty.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: Come on, talk about that.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: And our desire for certainty is a really a desire for to be omniscient.
17:54
SPEAKER_04: Ooh, we want everybody heard that.
17:58
SPEAKER_04: Say that again.
18:02
SPEAKER_04: Our desire for certainty is what?
18:04
SPEAKER_01: To be omniscient.
18:07
SPEAKER_01: To be an omniscient, this is one of these big words that gets attributed to God.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: It means to have unlimited, complete, or infinite knowledge, and is one of the characteristics that is uniquely God, not us.
18:22
SPEAKER_01: Life does not give us control over everything.
18:26
SPEAKER_01: This is it.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: Wisdom isn't about finding the perfect decision.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: Wisdom is about trusting God enough to take the next faithful step.
18:38
SPEAKER_01: Wisdom is trust.
18:41
SPEAKER_01: God isn't asking you to make perfect decisions, He's inviting you into a trusting relationship.
18:48
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
18:49
SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
18:49
SPEAKER_04: So, Brenda, as you're talking, you know, here's something I really want our viewers to catch.
18:54
SPEAKER_04: Fear can sometimes masquerade as discernment.
18:58
SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
18:58
SPEAKER_04: And we can tell ourselves, I'm just waiting on the Lord.
19:01
SPEAKER_04: But sometimes we're not waiting on God because God hasn't told us to wait.
19:06
SPEAKER_04: We're waiting because we're afraid to get it all wrong, or we're waiting to be, like you said, omniscient.
19:14
SPEAKER_04: And I think what's the question?
19:17
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
19:18
SPEAKER_04: Jessica just said, as a perfectionist, my mind is brown blown.
19:21
SPEAKER_04: Delisa said, What a word.
19:23
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, amen.
19:24
SPEAKER_04: Fire in the chat here.
19:26
SPEAKER_04: And I think one of the questions that we have to learn is has God actually told me to wait?
19:31
SPEAKER_04: Or am I demanding a level of certainty that God never promised me?
19:37
SPEAKER_04: Right.
19:38
SPEAKER_04: So, how can someone recognize Brenda?
19:40
SPEAKER_04: How can someone recognize that difference in themselves?
19:45
SPEAKER_01: Um this, I'm gonna just say it's gonna be some healthy discernment.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think there's gonna be times when you're asked to wait, and there's times and it's fear speaking, and you're gonna need this.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: So I I have lots of wisdom for you on this.
20:04
SPEAKER_01: I have I'm an older lady, I'm an older pastor, 40 years in one in youth ministry, tell you my age a little bit.
20:13
SPEAKER_01: Um and I've put some notes together that I think Cecily's got a attachment for the notes for you guys to have that I've just created over the years to help you guys.
20:23
SPEAKER_01: But for this discernment, there's basically seven ways we hear God's voice.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: One is following the way of Jesus, two is the Bible, three is circumstances, four is desire, five is prophetic words, and I, you know, not the ones I say, thus say it the Lord, but actual prophetic words, and there's a discernment to discern what that is.
20:47
SPEAKER_01: Um I go back to the other six.
20:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, six is list listening prayer, and seven is common sense.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: It's not a that's not a that one.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
20:59
SPEAKER_01: Now I I put Bible reading in here, but I also want to emphasize here that Bible reading is a slow and good practice.
21:07
SPEAKER_01: Yes, this is less tarot cards and more slow more slow machine, slow formation from the Holy Spirit conviction.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, reading the whole Bible so you're getting the whole perspective of the Bible to get the whole wisdom of the Bible, and then of course asking for wisdom from your life team.
21:27
SPEAKER_01: And these are these are your people you allow to speak into your life, and you may have a Bible thing, and your wisdom your life team can help you discern what this Bible thing means because it's not tarot cards, it's not AI, which is answer.
21:42
SPEAKER_01: The Bible reading is to get you ready for decisions you probably have not faced yet, which is why you need to have a practice of Bible reading as you are growing and maturing and you make decisions for your life.
21:56
SPEAKER_01: In the big ones, remember some decisions you make are right.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: And right decisions.
22:01
SPEAKER_01: You're not always decising between right and wrong.
22:03
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: Right and right.
22:05
SPEAKER_04: And I think those are the hardest ones because for, you know, for believers that love and fear the Lord, the ones between right and wrong, you know, we might make some of those wrong ones every now and then.
22:17
SPEAKER_04: But really our our goal is to be serving the Lord.
22:21
SPEAKER_04: So we might wrestle through it, but we'll get to the we'll get to the right decision eventually.
22:26
SPEAKER_04: But it's the ones that are between the right and right.
22:29
SPEAKER_04: And I think that's that's where we get challenged.
22:32
SPEAKER_04: Um, time for an engagement question.
22:34
SPEAKER_04: Let me ask those of you watching, are you a decision maker or an overthinker?
22:39
SPEAKER_04: So put decide or overthink in the comments.
22:43
SPEAKER_04: No judgment here.
22:45
SPEAKER_04: Uh, I'm gonna put overthink if I can type.
22:48
SPEAKER_04: Uh, I would put overthink in that in that chat because I'm definitely an overthinker.
22:54
SPEAKER_04: But and while you're typing, I'm gonna ask you, Brenda, what would you say to the person who keeps saying or keeps praying, God, just tell me what to do, but doesn't seem to be getting a clear answer.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna just say it again.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: You wish to be omniscient.
23:14
SPEAKER_01: So you don't, but this is why, because you don't want to have regrets.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, that's an honorable yeah, but you got to realize a decision is a to take God's wisdom is to trust God and to make a decision.
23:29
SPEAKER_01: And again, they're mostly between right and right.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: You can't screw up heaven.
23:34
SPEAKER_01: You just need to make that decision and to trust God.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, and the regrets are gonna be slight, if any, you just gotta make the decision because God mostly wishes us for us to grow in this trusting relationship with Him.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: I think sometimes we we're given decisions just so we can grow more.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: And this so what's what makes that a wrong decision?
24:01
SPEAKER_04: Mm-hmm.
24:02
SPEAKER_04: I know for me, as I have matured, uh both in years and in walking with the Lord, have more history with God, I have realized that God actually gives me more freedom in decision making than I thought.
24:20
SPEAKER_04: Oh, I think it's true that, yes.
24:23
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and I I'm shocked and realizing that there are times when several choices actually could be within his will, and he's actually allowing me to choose.
24:38
SPEAKER_04: It's been mind-blowing and crazy.
24:41
SPEAKER_04: But the thing that really um, the thing that really brought that revelation home to me, Brenda, was when God asked Adam to name the animals.
24:53
SPEAKER_04: And I thought, huh, Adam's just going out and being like giraffe, zebra, elephant, chimpanzee.
25:02
SPEAKER_04: He's just naming them and he's not going back saying, God, I think that this should be called an elephant.
25:07
SPEAKER_04: What do you think?
25:08
SPEAKER_04: Is it an elephant or giraffe?
25:10
SPEAKER_04: He's just doing his job, he's doing what God told him to do, and then at the end of the day, in the cool of the day, they come back and God's like, So, how'd it go?
25:19
SPEAKER_04: What did you name them?
25:20
SPEAKER_04: Oh, that's cool, that's a great idea.
25:22
SPEAKER_04: Back to your partnership.
25:24
SPEAKER_01: He does exactly, he wants us to be participators in this life.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and think about what if you miss plan A, what is really wrong with plan B?
25:40
SPEAKER_01: Wow, talk about that.
25:42
SPEAKER_01: What oh well, uh let's ask, let's ask everybody, what's wrong with plan B?
25:49
SPEAKER_01: Yes, what's wrong with plan B?
25:51
SPEAKER_01: How many people have how many people are living in plan B already and they're pretty happy with what how life has turned out?
25:58
SPEAKER_01: Mm.
26:00
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
26:01
SPEAKER_01: Maybe some people are living in plan M and they're still pretty happy with how life turned out.
26:08
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
26:09
SPEAKER_04: I was just speaking with a young lady that's going to be on my podcast, and so she has a whole story of redemption.
26:16
SPEAKER_04: And she was talking about how um all she sees now how all of the terrible things that happened to her uh from having an abusive father and her mother leaving her when she was a teenager and her little sister was five, and all of these horrible things that happened that spiraled her down.
26:36
SPEAKER_04: But she looks back now and sees the hand of God in every single one.
26:41
SPEAKER_04: Even the bad decisions she made and the bad decisions that other people around her made were all getting her to the place she said, if I had not had this situation happen, I would have been a year early and I would never have had the spiritual parents in the church that I'm in now.
26:58
SPEAKER_04: I would never have met my husband, I wouldn't have my own podcast, I would.
27:02
SPEAKER_04: She was going down the line of all the things that she wouldn't all the redemption she wouldn't be living in if those things hadn't happened.
27:10
SPEAKER_04: But if you she said, if you had talked to me then, she said, I would have said my life is a wreck.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: Let's go back to that vision of the path being wide.
27:19
SPEAKER_01: Her path was wide.
27:21
SPEAKER_01: And when she felt most alone, God was the closest to her, never off the path, just moving her forward and moving her forward.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: And she made some decisions with regrets.
27:33
SPEAKER_01: And God just still walked this wide path with her.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: This is for all of you guys, because this is your plan M's.
27:39
SPEAKER_01: God worked that wide path with you, and you are here and you are wise.
27:46
SPEAKER_01: And you've, I think you've grown in trusting God through that whole, every bit of that wide path as you've walked, you've grown to trust God more and more and more.
27:56
SPEAKER_01: And that's what makes you who you are today.
27:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: That's not a lack of wisdom.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: That is you walking forward with God on this wide path.
28:05
SPEAKER_04: Yes, yes.
28:06
SPEAKER_04: There's a comment that I'm going to read to you, Brenda, and it's somebody I think that is connected with your church.
28:12
SPEAKER_04: It's um at this one to love.
28:14
SPEAKER_04: It's uh they said, I'm definitely a decision maker and I wrestle with overthinking.
28:20
SPEAKER_04: When something feels like my choice, I struggle with decision making.
28:24
SPEAKER_04: When it feels like clear direction from God, I don't overthink.
28:28
SPEAKER_04: So talk to that.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm gonna guess this person has learned some discernment where she's be able to know this is God's path for her, much easier decision.
28:42
SPEAKER_01: Again, God speaks to us in seven different ways.
28:45
SPEAKER_01: I think she has learned that.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: She goes to my church, she will have learned that here because it's not the first time I've taught that here.
28:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then when it's just you, and again, it's probably a decision of just you of right and right.
29:01
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you just need to stop the ruminating.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: Again, you can't really screw this up, especially if you've been practicing, you know, you got to practice Bible reading.
29:12
SPEAKER_01: So you got the whole perspective of the Bible and all that wisdom.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: You got listening prayer going on, you got people speaking into your life who are gonna just make it obvious to you.
29:21
SPEAKER_01: And do not forget common sense.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, common sense is common sense is wisdom.
29:27
SPEAKER_01: That's why it's common sense.
29:29
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
29:30
SPEAKER_04: You know, I've noticed that when people are young in their faith, they often say, you know, like, God, what do you want me to do?
29:36
SPEAKER_04: And that's a really good question.
29:38
SPEAKER_04: But I think as we mature, perhaps God is developing something deeper in us, like he's expanding his word, the depth of his word in us.
29:48
SPEAKER_04: We're learning his character, we're becoming sensitive to his spirit.
29:52
SPEAKER_04: And then I think sometimes the question becomes, God, what decision can I make that honors you with the wisdom that you've already given me?
30:03
SPEAKER_04: And sometimes his silence isn't his absence.
30:06
SPEAKER_04: It's evidence that he's taught us enough to make the next faith with them.
30:11
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
30:12
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
30:13
SPEAKER_01: I think one of the one of the tougher things, again, young people who I love, love, love, love, love, it takes life experience to understand the character of God.
30:23
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, you you tend, I mean, I'm very generalizing here, but you tend to take the character of God based on the parents or maybe a strong pastor in your life, you know, high control pastor.
30:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then you maybe put that wrong picture onto God.
30:38
SPEAKER_01: And the more you walk with God, the more you understand God's character.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: And as you get older and wiser, and there's a reason why that's honored in the Bible, because you just learn the character of God, and it's so it becomes so much easier to make those quick decisions with wisdom because you just know the character of God more.
30:56
SPEAKER_01: This is why having people in your life when you're in your teens and in your 20s who are older and wiser.
31:04
SPEAKER_01: Let's, I mean, let's get some boomers with some you know, Gen Gen Z here.
31:09
SPEAKER_01: That is a great combination.
31:12
SPEAKER_01: Um because they understand the character of God and they can pass that on to you, and you can start undoing some of this unintentional, naive image of God that you have uh just grown up with, and it's all unintentional, it's all naivety.
31:29
SPEAKER_01: It could have come from some bad nightmare you had when you were seven, and you can't get rid of it.
31:33
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just it's just you're just young.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: But this but this character God opens up your freedom in making decisions because you see that God is not fragile, that God is generous, that God is for you, that God is a redeemer.
31:47
SPEAKER_01: There's nothing outside that he can't fix.
31:49
SPEAKER_01: There's nothing that he can't fix.
31:52
SPEAKER_01: And if you've been on the other side of redemption in any sort of story, you know that for a fact.
31:57
SPEAKER_01: But you got to be older to know that.
32:01
SPEAKER_04: Yes, yes.
32:03
SPEAKER_04: So good.
32:04
SPEAKER_04: Well, I'm gonna pause our conversation for just a second because if this conversation is helping you, would you do two things for me?
32:13
SPEAKER_04: If you're watching on YouTube, subscribe to the higher pursuit and hit the like button.
32:18
SPEAKER_04: It really does help YouTube know that conversations like this need to be put in front of more people.
32:24
SPEAKER_04: And if you're listening later on the podcast, follow the show and just take a minute to rate it and review the higher pursuit on your podcast platform because this is one of the simplest ways that you can help other people discover these conversations.
32:38
SPEAKER_04: And Tribe, listen, don't keep this one to yourself.
32:41
SPEAKER_04: Share this live stream with a friend who has been talking to you about that same decision for the last six months.
32:48
SPEAKER_04: Maybe tonight is their night to move.
32:51
SPEAKER_04: So back to you, Brenda.
32:53
SPEAKER_04: Listen, you used a phrase in our offline conversation that I loved.
32:57
SPEAKER_04: So I want you to talk about imperfect progress.
33:00
SPEAKER_04: What does imperfect progress look like in the life of a believer?
33:04
SPEAKER_04: What does that mean?
33:05
SPEAKER_01: Well, we say this often in our church.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: This is one of the things we stumbled across early on in our church.
33:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, I say this often.
33:13
SPEAKER_01: We embrace imperfect progress, maturing into who we already are.
33:18
SPEAKER_01: Come on.
33:19
SPEAKER_01: Because we know that God loves you as you are, but loves you too much to let you stay that way.
33:25
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
33:25
SPEAKER_01: And we do this imperfectly.
33:29
SPEAKER_01: What does healthy growth look like?
33:31
SPEAKER_01: It looks like imperfect progress.
33:34
SPEAKER_01: It um let me just give you some notes here.
33:38
SPEAKER_01: Healthy girlfriend involves time, uncertainty, vulnerability, is exhausting, includes grieving versions of yourself you thought you would always be, and it grew to be something better, I guess.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: Involves people, specifically your life team, because growth is relational.
34:00
SPEAKER_01: You are broken in relationship, you're gonna heal in relationships, you can't isolate yourself.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: You've got to have people in your life for healthy growth, which means this just happens imperfectly.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: It's not a straightforward path, it hasn't been for any of us.
34:18
SPEAKER_01: So just get that notion out of your mind.
34:21
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, and I think this is this is where the perfectionism comes into.
34:27
SPEAKER_04: Yes, yes, because perfectionism totally interferes with our discernment.
34:33
SPEAKER_01: Wouldn't you say about it does and and our relationships remember you heal, you broke relationships broke you originally, relationships will also heal you.
34:45
SPEAKER_01: Perfectionism is rooted in shame every time, every time, every time you you you don't want the risk, you don't want to you know fail, you don't want to have the regrets.
34:57
SPEAKER_01: So you strive and you strive, and you think it's this upward growth, it's smooth and strong, and I'm gonna just force my way to have some growth when it's really it's vulnerable and it it hurts, and uh it takes it takes time, blah blah it's that's just true.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: Perfectionism when it's rooted in shame is an attempt to avoid that shame, yes, in the pursuit of excellence.
35:19
SPEAKER_01: You so you avoid the risk, you need just keep striving and you avoid belonging because someone who sees you might see you not as perfect.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
35:31
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
35:32
SPEAKER_01: So you stay out, you stay out, and perfection will keep perfectionism will keep you small.
35:39
SPEAKER_04: And I think also if we have an orphan identity, we are always striving in that perfectionism because we're afraid of being abandoned.
35:49
SPEAKER_04: We're afraid that if God truly sees what he what he purchased with the blood of Jesus, he's gonna be disappointed.
35:57
SPEAKER_04: So we want to serve God perfectly.
36:00
SPEAKER_04: And we don't and I think others the other flip side of that is perfectionism sells us the lie that if I'm really hearing God correctly, then I will never make a mistake.
36:12
SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
36:13
SPEAKER_04: That I can somehow arrive at some place.
36:16
SPEAKER_04: Yes, that I can hear God so perfectly that I will never make a mistake.
36:22
SPEAKER_04: Do you think that that's reasonable?
36:24
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's that thinking happens, isn't it?
36:27
SPEAKER_01: Is it reasonable thinking?
36:28
SPEAKER_01: No, it really is gonna exhaust your soul and it could keep you in a relationship, and that concerns me an awful lot.
36:37
SPEAKER_01: And he said something in there too that you're forgetting that God is not fragile, he can see your imperfect progress, yes, because he loves you as you are, but he loves you too much to let you stay that way.
36:52
SPEAKER_01: He he knows this is how we grow, and God loves to watch his things grow.
36:58
SPEAKER_01: Everything on this planet earth that he created has a growth part to it.
37:03
SPEAKER_01: It's not fast, it's a struggle and it's beautiful.
37:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but that's us also.
37:13
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
37:15
SPEAKER_04: So I think someone really needs to hear what you mean.
37:18
SPEAKER_04: What as you're talking about God is not fragile, how does understanding the strength and sovereignty of God change the way we approach our decisions?
37:30
SPEAKER_01: God doesn't have a clipboard.
37:33
SPEAKER_01: I can show you you're you're you're completing the whole checklist.
37:37
SPEAKER_01: He's loves you, and his love is not it's not coerced, it's not forced on you, he just loves you, and that participation is a recipient of love back, and he just wants to love back and love back and love back, and it's just it just grows.
37:53
SPEAKER_01: But if we we and we we mentioned earlier the fear of the fear of God.
37:59
SPEAKER_01: That is a you know, it's a statement, it's it's it's not a great English translation.
38:06
SPEAKER_01: Um but just the fear, and just it doesn't even r transfer well when we say like it's just a means of re respect God, because also in that respect of God, it's like, oh, I respect God.
38:17
SPEAKER_01: He's got he's got the clipboard and he's taking a list again.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: Not gonna respect God with that clipboard.
38:22
SPEAKER_01: What this just means is I realize God has entered the room of my life and God has got presence in my life.
38:30
SPEAKER_01: I am this and God is that, and we are in partnership together, and if the road is wide, and we're gonna just go forward.
38:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's that's fear of God.
38:42
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so good.
38:44
SPEAKER_04: And sometimes we are gonna make the wrong decision.
38:47
SPEAKER_04: So, is there a difference between experiencing the consequences of a decision and believing that somehow we've disqualified ourselves from God's purposes?
38:58
SPEAKER_04: Because I know that's something that I've struggled with, like full full disclosure.
39:02
SPEAKER_04: I've struggled feeling like, have I disappointed God or did I get so off track that I'm now, like I said, you know, delayed myself for 15 years or or maybe forever.
39:16
SPEAKER_01: A part of our imperfect progress is experiencing consequences.
39:21
SPEAKER_01: There are consequences, that's just the result of sin.
39:25
SPEAKER_01: God's, you know, God's Jesus' death on the cross paid our price, but there's still consequences for our sins.
39:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, say that.
39:33
SPEAKER_01: God never takes us off this wide path, never takes us off this wide path.
39:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, and God again will redeem us on this wide path all along the way.
39:45
SPEAKER_01: And what the consequences you suffer makes your plan B or makes your plan C.
39:52
SPEAKER_01: And it's still the same God's will for you.
39:55
SPEAKER_01: That didn't change because you're still who God created.
40:01
SPEAKER_01: That you know, it says Psalm 51 God speaks to us first in the womb.
40:07
SPEAKER_01: The first words our souls ever hear come from God's telling us who we are.
40:13
SPEAKER_01: That has never changed, but the path is so wide that we can make this imperfect progress and or imperfect progress, yeah, and still be in God's hands, right?
40:27
SPEAKER_04: Right.
40:27
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I think about someone like Peter.
40:30
SPEAKER_04: I mean, think about Peter, he denied the Lord and he goes back to fishing, and Jesus came to him.
40:37
SPEAKER_01: Jesus shows up to him to say, I'm redeeming that pardon me with food, yes, I made food, and let's have breakfast first, because there's a relationship involved here.
40:50
SPEAKER_04: Yes, exactly.
40:52
SPEAKER_04: So you would think Peter denying Jesus, like that's a disqualifier because Jesus said, if you deny me before men, I will deny you before the father.
41:01
SPEAKER_04: So you think like, well, there you go, Pete.
41:03
SPEAKER_04: Sorry, you're out.
41:05
SPEAKER_04: But Jesus said, No, I'm going to redeem that.
41:08
SPEAKER_04: I told you, when you return, go strengthen your brothers.
41:12
SPEAKER_04: Now you have a humble perspective.
41:14
SPEAKER_04: Now you can be the leader I actually needed you to be.
41:18
SPEAKER_04: The braggart who's going to try to cut off somebody's head and misses and just gets an ear.
41:22
SPEAKER_04: Like, that's not the guy I needed.
41:24
SPEAKER_04: I need this guy, this broken, humbled guy.
41:28
SPEAKER_04: And I don't, I think we put so much weight on executing our life perfectly that that's what God wants from us.
41:37
SPEAKER_04: We forget that our mistakes, our failures, our poor decisions, the lessons we learned, um, the humility to go back and repent to the people we hurt, all of this, it is reflecting what a per what a person filled with the Spirit of God truly is.
41:57
SPEAKER_04: Somebody who's walking out their life in Christ imperfectly perfect.
42:05
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
42:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:06
SPEAKER_01: That's the great story.
42:08
SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure everyone's got a story like that in their lives.
42:12
SPEAKER_01: If you, you know, if you're older, wiser and come along, you just know there's this moment, you thought it was all lost, and then like that moment made me who I am today.
42:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
42:24
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
42:25
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
42:26
SPEAKER_01: God's a redeemer.
42:27
SPEAKER_04: Amen.
42:28
SPEAKER_04: Amen.
42:29
SPEAKER_04: Well, I think this is where where the Lord wants to set somebody free tonight.
42:33
SPEAKER_04: I really sense that.
42:35
SPEAKER_04: Maybe you've been carrying the weight of believing that the entire purpose of God for your life rests on your ability to never make a wrong turn.
42:43
SPEAKER_04: But our faith isn't ultimately in our ability to hear perfectly.
42:48
SPEAKER_04: Our faith is in a father who leads us faithfully.
42:52
SPEAKER_04: And that doesn't mean that our choices don't matter.
42:54
SPEAKER_04: Please don't think that Brenda and I are saying that.
42:56
SPEAKER_04: They absolutely do.
42:58
SPEAKER_04: And sometimes choices do have consequences.
43:01
SPEAKER_04: But there's a difference between saying my choices matter and saying one imperfect decision is more powerful than God's ability to redeem my life.
43:11
SPEAKER_04: Those are not the same thing.
43:13
SPEAKER_04: So, Brenda, I would like you to just quickly speak to the person who believes that they have already made the decision that ruined everything.
43:22
SPEAKER_01: You can't.
43:25
SPEAKER_01: You can't.
43:32
SPEAKER_01: And has never left you.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: And I promise you, he's never left you.
43:36
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what your view of God or the character of God is.
43:39
SPEAKER_01: He's never left you, and he's you're here tonight to hear this truth from two wise older ladies who have learned the hard way and the imperfect way to give you this wisdom.
43:52
SPEAKER_01: And you also have wisdom to share from what God has taught you, from what you've been through.
43:58
SPEAKER_01: It is hurt.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: It has cost you relationships and it's probably damaged somebody you love very, very much.
44:06
SPEAKER_01: But God is in the work of redemption, and you will not be you will be surprised, but I will not be surprised to hear how hear how God is redeeming that work for you to.
44:17
SPEAKER_01: And I don't want to say, oh, yay, I got a great testimony now for God to use.
44:23
SPEAKER_01: I hope you have the most boring testimony.
44:25
SPEAKER_01: You hear my testimony?
44:26
SPEAKER_01: I've been a pastor now for 45 years.
44:28
SPEAKER_01: There's my testimony.
44:30
SPEAKER_01: My imperfect progress better be a lot more uphill than most of you because I have responsibility, right?
44:36
SPEAKER_01: And I've gained wisdom from that.
44:38
SPEAKER_01: I don't I'm not asking you to have a great testimony with you know making bad decisions for a testimony's sake.
44:44
SPEAKER_01: I'm asking you to walk in your decisions and trust God.
44:50
SPEAKER_01: If you have made a regretful decision, God's in the work of redemption right now for you.
44:56
SPEAKER_01: And he's going to keep walking forward imperfectly to be this wise person that other people can get wisdom from.
45:05
SPEAKER_04: Amen.
45:06
SPEAKER_04: Amen.
45:08
SPEAKER_04: And uh Delisa just said Joel 225, redeeming the time that the locust has stolen.
45:14
SPEAKER_04: Yes, amen.
45:15
SPEAKER_04: The Lord redeems everything.
45:17
SPEAKER_04: It's such a good word, such a great scripture, so perfect for this part of our conversation, Delisa.
45:23
SPEAKER_04: So here's another question I want everybody to be thinking about.
45:27
SPEAKER_04: Brenda mentioned your life team.
45:30
SPEAKER_04: Those are the your inner circle people, those people that have your back, rain, sun, sickness, and health.
45:39
SPEAKER_04: They're the people who can speak life to you.
45:41
SPEAKER_04: They're this people who can help you muddle through if you're questioning, whether you're discerning the voice of God.
45:49
SPEAKER_04: So ask yourself: who is on your life team?
45:52
SPEAKER_04: Do you have people who love you enough to encourage you, but also love you enough to tell you when they think you're wrong?
46:00
SPEAKER_04: You don't need to put their names in the comment, but if you're grateful that God has given you some of those people, put a heart in the chat.
46:07
SPEAKER_04: Because none of us should be doing this life alone.
46:10
SPEAKER_04: Just like Brenda said, I love that.
46:12
SPEAKER_04: She said some relationships will break you, but it will only be through relationships that you will be healed.
46:18
SPEAKER_04: So, so good.
46:20
SPEAKER_04: God gave us the ecclesia.
46:22
SPEAKER_04: Delisa put a heart in the chat.
46:23
SPEAKER_04: That's great.
46:25
SPEAKER_04: Well, Tribe, before we move into this final part of our conversation, let me just take a quick moment to just share one thing for with you guys who are ministry leaders, women's ministry leaders, pastors or event planners.
46:37
SPEAKER_04: If you're looking for a speaker for an upcoming conference, retreat, women's event, church service, or leadership gathering, I'd love to raise my hand for that.
46:45
SPEAKER_04: My heart is to help people move beyond simply knowing biblical truth to experiencing transformation through it.
46:52
SPEAKER_04: Whether I'm teaching about repurposing pain, developing intimacy with God, learning to study scripture, prayer, spiritual growth, or living out faith that actually works in your everyday life.
47:03
SPEAKER_04: That's what I like to talk about.
47:04
SPEAKER_04: So if you think I'd be a good fit for your event, contact me at higherpursuitministries.com and I'd love to hear what God is doing in your ministry and explore how I can come alongside of you.
47:15
SPEAKER_04: So, Brenda, let's bring this home.
47:18
SPEAKER_04: For the person watching tonight who is stuck in a decision right now, they're praying, they're analyzing, they're second guessing, they're afraid to move.
47:26
SPEAKER_04: What are you going to tell them?
47:30
SPEAKER_01: I've got five things I want to pass.
47:32
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I got six things actually.
47:34
SPEAKER_01: All right.
47:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, first, stop trying to be omniscient.
47:37
SPEAKER_01: You've heard that word.
47:39
SPEAKER_01: Let that stop you first.
47:41
SPEAKER_01: And that second, ask God for wisdom, then asking God for certainty.
47:48
SPEAKER_01: Now you sometimes your rumination, you may be thinking you're asking for wisdom, but really, okay.
47:52
SPEAKER_01: We're asking for certainty.
47:54
SPEAKER_01: Recognize when fear is leading in that one.
47:56
SPEAKER_01: Wisdom again is about trusting God enough to take that next faithful step.
48:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
48:04
SPEAKER_01: Third, um, gather what you already have.
48:07
SPEAKER_01: Pay attention to what you are what you're learning about following Jesus.
48:11
SPEAKER_01: Consider your circumstances, pay attention to your desires, listen in prayer, use common sense, and talk with your life team.
48:21
SPEAKER_01: Just people who know who love you and have the permission to speak to you, the truth to you, particularly.
48:28
SPEAKER_01: And this has been demonstrated to you over time.
48:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, I have a downloadable PDF about the life team too.
48:36
SPEAKER_01: Life team members tend to come and go.
48:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, so they're some are temporary, some are with you for a long time.
48:43
SPEAKER_01: You need to recognize that.
48:45
SPEAKER_01: But also take your discernment here and name who these people are so they can speak into your life.
48:52
SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes you have heard a voice and they should not have had that right to speak into your life.
48:59
SPEAKER_01: Your life team person, they can say something to you, and I think it's gonna strike you as true, but also it's gonna hit you in your soul like I can make my decision now because of this person told me this.
49:11
SPEAKER_01: Because this person has had time with me.
49:14
SPEAKER_01: We call it in my church, we call it, they have a track record with you to speak into your life, to say that this is so important.
49:21
SPEAKER_01: And I want to say, notice here, I in this list, I didn't say read your Bible, because reading your Bible is a long-term answer, it's not a short term.
49:29
SPEAKER_01: Don't go to AI, don't go to tarot cards, because that's what you're turning the Bible into when you're turning to the Bible to say, okay, God, show me how to make my decision.
49:38
SPEAKER_01: No, no, the Bible is for this long-term perspective on the character of God.
49:44
unknown: Yes.
49:44
SPEAKER_01: So I didn't, I just want to in that list.
49:47
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes Bibles, um, you should just kind of a hint about the Bible as you're making this decision.
49:54
SPEAKER_01: It's one of your things uh helping you discern, but don't go looking into the Bible for an answer.
50:00
SPEAKER_04: Yes, don't do that hunt and peck and yeah.
50:03
SPEAKER_01: That that is not what the Bible is, it is for your long-term formation to know the character of God.
50:10
SPEAKER_04: And as as your church is named, the larger story, we are looking at the word of God for God's larger story.
50:19
SPEAKER_04: So many times I just taught this on a live stream, uh, I don't know, number of weeks ago, that the wrong way to read the Bible is to read the Bible as if it's a book about you.
50:28
SPEAKER_04: The right way to read the Bible is to realize it's a book about God.
50:32
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
50:33
SPEAKER_04: And so we need participate.
50:36
SPEAKER_04: Yes, yes.
50:38
SPEAKER_04: And it involves us.
50:40
SPEAKER_04: He's brought us into his family.
50:42
SPEAKER_04: So we are in the story, but essentially it's a book revealing our Heavenly Father, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to us.
50:51
SPEAKER_04: So that's really what we need to be looking for.
50:53
SPEAKER_04: Well, Brenda, before I let you go, I want you to tell everybody where they can connect with you and um your online ministry and how they can continue learning from you.
51:04
SPEAKER_01: Well, many of you can.
51:06
SPEAKER_01: My church is larger story church.
51:08
SPEAKER_01: It's largerstorychurch.com.
51:10
SPEAKER_01: We meet on Friday nights and also we we meet over Zoom.
51:14
SPEAKER_01: This it's just it's a it's our story.
51:16
SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna get into it.
51:18
SPEAKER_01: Um we meet over Zoom at 7 o'clock East Coast time.
51:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, go to the church webpage, largest story.com, and you can sign up for the email, get the Zoom link, and you can join us.
51:28
SPEAKER_01: We have these great conversations.
51:30
SPEAKER_01: But as it's on the screen right now, I write about this at Bravestur.com.
51:35
SPEAKER_01: I've been writing resources for since 1990, got on the internet since 1994, been writing for a very long time.
51:44
SPEAKER_01: And my Bible study, um, which is excellent, I believe, is called Trust Issues with God.
51:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, the people in my church asked me to read, asked me to write this.
51:57
SPEAKER_01: Um as we were as we have these conversations at church.
52:00
SPEAKER_01: Again, I'm a youth pastor, so I teach a lot of conversation.
52:03
SPEAKER_01: Um we kept stumbling into trust issues.
52:08
SPEAKER_01: And so we kept, and we just one of those things to start repeating, and finally my church said to me, Take what we're learning here and put it into a Bible study for other people.
52:16
SPEAKER_01: So this is not a pastor telling you about trust issues.
52:20
SPEAKER_01: This is the people in my church sharing what they have learned about their trust issues.
52:25
SPEAKER_01: And they they wrote this, but I my name is on it.
52:28
SPEAKER_01: But it's it's it's their work that they we did together.
52:30
SPEAKER_01: So I love it.
52:31
SPEAKER_01: It's it's um four weeks comes with video.
52:36
SPEAKER_01: You find it Brave Star at Amazon or Barnes and Noble, you know, etc.
52:40
SPEAKER_04: Fantastic.
52:41
SPEAKER_04: Well, Brenda, thank you.
52:43
SPEAKER_04: This has been such a rich conversation, and I just from on behalf of the Higher Pursuit Tribe, I just want to say thank you for sharing your wisdom and your heart with us.
52:55
SPEAKER_04: It was so wonderful.
52:56
SPEAKER_04: And Higher Pursuit Tribe, I told you we were gonna have a dynamic conversation, and this did not disappoint.
53:04
SPEAKER_04: So make sure you share this with somebody who needs it because I don't want us to finish tonight with more information.
53:10
SPEAKER_04: I want us to do something with what we've heard.
53:14
SPEAKER_04: So I'm gonna leave you with the task to share this with someone that you know, someone that's struggling, making a decision, and to keep this recording for yourself.
53:27
SPEAKER_04: All right, guys, let's close out in prayer.
53:30
SPEAKER_04: Father God, we thank you that you are a God who leads your children.
53:36
SPEAKER_04: You don't tease us with your will and you don't hide yourself from those of us who are sincerely seeking you, who are crying out to you.
53:44
SPEAKER_04: You're a good father and we can trust you.
53:48
SPEAKER_04: So tonight I especially pray for the person who is stuck in a decision, who's praying, who's analyzing, who's second guessing, who's afraid to move, who's like a deer in headlights.
53:59
SPEAKER_04: Where there is a fear masquerading as discernment, expose it.
54:04
SPEAKER_04: Where more waiting is needed, give them the patience to wait and to be still and know that you are God.
54:12
SPEAKER_04: And where it's time to move, give them the courage to move.
54:16
SPEAKER_04: Lord, for those who need a life team, bring wise, mature, godly people around them, people who will pray with them, who will encourage them, who will love them enough to speak the truth to them.
54:29
SPEAKER_04: And teach us, Lord, to embrace imperfect progress.
54:33
SPEAKER_04: Deliver us from the demand to try to be omniscient, to try to know everything before we obey anything.
54:41
SPEAKER_04: And Father, for the person who pray keeps praying, God, just tell me what to do and I'll do it.
54:47
SPEAKER_04: And feels as though heaven has been silent.
54:49
SPEAKER_04: I'm just asking God that you give them wisdom.
54:53
SPEAKER_04: As Brenda said, that wisdom that you give us without chastising us, you give it to us generously.
55:00
SPEAKER_04: And remind your children of what you've already spoken through your word.
55:04
SPEAKER_04: Help them to recognize your spirit's leading and give them confidence to take that next faithful step.
55:12
SPEAKER_04: And for anyone carrying regret over a decision they wish they could change, remind them tonight that you are not fragile.
55:22
SPEAKER_04: Their mistake is not greater than your ability to redeem it, not greater than your grace, and their wrong turn is not beyond your redemptive power.
55:33
SPEAKER_04: So we put our decisions, our futures, and our lives into your almighty hands.
55:41
SPEAKER_04: You are the everlasting arms underneath each one of us.
55:45
SPEAKER_04: In Jesus' name.
55:48
SPEAKER_04: Amen.
55:50
SPEAKER_04: Well, guys, thank you for joining Brenda and me tonight.
55:53
SPEAKER_04: If this conversation helped you, like it, subscribe to Higher Pursuit, follow Brenda, and share this conversation with somebody who needs to make a decision.
56:03
SPEAKER_04: So until next time, keep pursuing the one who is always worth the pursuit.
56:11
SPEAKER_04: Hey family, I pray that you were blessed and encouraged by that episode and that you took away something you can use in your walk with the Lord starting today.
56:22
SPEAKER_04: Jesus tells us in Matthew 6 to seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness.
56:28
SPEAKER_04: So I thank you for making me a part of your pursuit.
56:31
SPEAKER_04: Until next time, abide in Him.