Latest / Heroes Behind the Badge / Bill Buford — He Owed It to the Men He Lost at Waco | Part 2

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Bill Buford — He Owed It to the Men He Lost at Waco | Part 2 · Heroes Behind the Badge

• 0:00
  Bill Buford The first round, they started shooting
• 0:01
  Bill Buford through the floor, and the first round was a
• 0:06
  Bill Buford 223 round out of an AR of some sort, I'm guessing.
• 0:10
  Bill Buford And it came through the floor and hit me right in the butt.
• 0:13
  Bill Buford And I remember thinking, "Damn, they just shot me in the ass."
• 0:29
  Bill Erfirth The Branch Davidians fired 11,000
• 0:33
  Bill Erfirth rounds at all of you, at law enforcement.
• 0:37
  Bill Erfirth And law enforcement fired approximately a thousand rounds.
• 0:41
  Bill Erfirth I mean, that's a war.
• 0:42
  Paul Boomer Bill Buford went back to work weeks after being shot four times.
• 0:46
  Paul Boomer But the full story of that day was only half told.
• 0:49
  Paul Boomer Here's the rest of it.
• 0:51
  Bill Erfirth That's a crazy ass war.
• 0:52
  Bill Erfirth And then I just want, I want you to paint
• 0:56
  Bill Erfirth this picture for everybody, if you would, Bill.
• 0:59
  Bill Erfirth You were going up a ladder onto an angled roof to get into a
• 1:05
  Bill Erfirth window, which was the gun room, apparently, right?
• 1:08
  Bill Erfirth Yes.
• 1:10
  Bill Erfirth And you entered that gun room, and
• 1:14
  Bill Erfirth a gun battle ensued inside there.
• 1:16
  Bill Erfirth And you just told us that you fired yourself a hundred rounds.
• 1:21
  Bill Erfirth What kind of weapon were you firing at that moment?
• 1:24
  Bill Buford I had a SIG Sauer 9mm, and I carried almost 50
• 1:29
  Bill Buford rounds with me, and I had used all the ammunition.
• 1:34
  Bill Buford They were shooting through the walls at the end.
• 1:37
  Bill Erfirth Right.
• 1:38
  Bill Erfirth You're on the roof, into the gun room.
• 1:43
  Bill Erfirth You're firing 100 rounds.
• 1:45
  Bill Erfirth You've got a 9mm handgun.
• 1:48
  Bill Erfirth And the slide lock's back, and your
• 1:51
  Bill Erfirth partner's lying there, and he hands you a magazine.
• 1:54
  Bill Erfirth Now, this is something that I picked up.
• 1:56
  Bill Erfirth And this is from a more of a tactical perspective.
• 2:00
  Bill Erfirth But he handed you a magazine that
• 2:02
  Bill Erfirth actually would work in your handgun.
• 2:06
  Bill Erfirth And there's always been a debate in law enforcement and different
• 2:10
  Bill Erfirth law enforcement agencies that should everyone
• 2:12
  Bill Erfirth carry the same weapon for that very same reason.
• 2:17
  Bill Erfirth So that if you run out of ammunition, one of your partners can
• 2:21
  Bill Erfirth throw you a magazine where if one guy's carrying a Glock and
• 2:24
  Bill Erfirth another's got a Beretta, that's not going to work.
• 2:27
  Bill Erfirth And so some agencies mandate that, and other agencies don't.
• 2:31
  Bill Erfirth Was that policy with the ATF?
• 2:34
  Bill Buford It was.
• 2:35
  Bill Buford ATF issued the SIG Sauer 9mm to everybody.
• 2:39
  Bill Buford Back when I first came on, you could
• 2:41
  Bill Buford carry a personal gun if you qualified with it.
• 2:44
  Bill Buford But
• 2:45
  Bill Buford then they did away with that policy,
• 2:47
  Bill Buford and we all had to carry the SIG Sauer 9mm.
• 2:51
  Bill Buford So there was no doubt.
• 2:53
  Bill Buford And Glen sort of handed me magazines.
• 2:54
  Bill Buford I knew what gun he carried.
• 2:56
  Bill Buford He knew what gun I carried.
• 2:57
  Bill Buford So
• 2:59
  Bill Buford it just worked out well.
• 3:01
  Bill Erfirth And you know, law enforcement, like anybody else, they learn.
• 3:05
  Bill Erfirth They learn from experiences.
• 3:07
  Bill Erfirth They learn from incidents like yours.
• 3:10
  Bill Erfirth That that was a prime example of how having the same firearms, you
• 3:16
  Bill Erfirth could inter-exchange magazines and help to save each other's lives.
• 3:21
  Bill Erfirth You get shot.
• 3:22
  Bill Erfirth So I read and you can confirm this.
• 3:25
  Bill Erfirth You got shot a couple of times by an AK-47.
• 3:28
  Bill Erfirth Four times.
• 3:29
  Bill Erfirth Yeah.
• 3:29
  Bill Erfirth Yeah.
• 3:30
  Bill Erfirth Yeah.
• 3:30
  Bill Erfirth At least twice with an AK-47 that I know of, right?
• 3:34
  Bill Erfirth Each time you're getting hit, are you saying, "Oh my God, fuck me."
• 3:38
  Bill Erfirth Or, "What are you thinking?
• 3:39
  Bill Erfirth What are you saying?"
• 3:41
  Bill Erfirth Or is that just enraging you to the
• 3:44
  Bill Erfirth point, like, "I'm just going to finish this."
• 3:47
  Bill Erfirth What's the psychology at that moment?
• 3:50
  Bill Buford Well,
• 3:52
  Bill Buford it was
• 3:54
  Bill Buford the first round they started shooting through the floor.
• 3:58
  Bill Buford And the first round was a .223 round
• 4:01
  Bill Buford out of an AR of some sort, I'm guessing.
• 4:05
  Bill Buford And it came through the floor and hit me right in the butt.
• 4:08
  Bill Buford And I remember thinking, "Damn, they just shot me in the ass."
• 4:14
  Bill Buford And actually, that one wasn't too bad.
• 4:17
  Bill Buford But then I took a round in the hip and in the upper thigh.
• 4:20
  Bill Buford Those were the AK rounds.
• 4:22
  Bill Buford And they knocked me on my butt.
• 4:24
  Bill Erfirth And on the roof, while you were on the roof?
• 4:27
  Bill Buford No, I was still in the room.
• 4:29
  Bill Buford Oh, in the room.
• 4:30
  Bill Buford And Glen Jordan, one of the other agents in there with me,
• 4:35
  Bill Buford Glen did the break and rake
• 4:37
  Bill Buford on the window and then followed me in.
• 4:39
  Bill Buford He had been shot
• 4:42
  Bill Buford through the arm and had severed his brachial artery in two places.
• 4:46
  Bill Buford He was bleeding out on the floor there.
• 4:49
  Bill Buford And I knew we had to get out of there.
• 4:50
  Bill Buford That's one reason I kept shooting because I was going to try to get
• 4:53
  Bill Buford them to quit shooting at us so I could get Glen out of there.
• 4:57
  Bill Buford And finally, well, what happened?
• 4:59
  Bill Buford When I ran out of ammunition, Glen's
• 5:01
  Bill Buford laying there bleeding like a stuck hog.
• 5:04
  Bill Buford And he started pulling out his magazines and handing them to me
• 5:07
  Bill Buford because the slide locked back on my SIG.
• 5:11
  Bill Buford And so I used his three, three
• 5:14
  Bill Buford magazines of his that he kept giving to me.
• 5:18
  Bill Buford But
• 5:21
  Bill Buford and finally, I thought, you know, we got to get out of here.
• 5:23
  Bill Buford I was trying to get up off the floor.
• 5:25
  Bill Buford I remember pushing up on a wooden box.
• 5:28
  Bill Buford And on that in that wooden box was hand grenades.
• 5:32
  Bill Buford And I thought, man, I hope they don't hit one of these things.
• 5:36
  Bill Buford And later I thought, why didn't I just pull
• 5:39
  Bill Buford on the pen and throwing them down the hallway?
• 5:41
  Bill Buford I didn't think about that at the time.
• 5:44
  Bill Erfirth You had a lot to think about.
• 5:47
  Bill Erfirth How the hell did you get out of that
• 5:48
  Bill Erfirth back out of that window and off the roof?
• 5:52
  Bill Buford I absolutely have no idea.
• 5:55
  Bill Buford I remember talking to Glen and I
• 5:57
  Bill Buford said, Glen, we got to get out of here.
• 5:59
  Bill Buford I said, can you go?
• 6:00
  Bill Buford And he said, yes.
• 6:01
  Bill Buford And I said, let's go.
• 6:02
  Bill Buford And I was trying to get up off the floor.
• 6:05
  Bill Buford And the next thing I remember, I was on the roof.
• 6:07
  Bill Buford I have no
• 6:09
  Bill Buford memory of getting up and going back out the window.
• 6:12
  Bill Buford I don't remember anything about it.
• 6:15
  Bill Buford I just all of a sudden I was on the roof
• 6:18
  Bill Buford and I thought, damn, I got to get off of here.
• 6:21
  Bill Buford Because they were shooting us.
• 6:21
  Bill Buford I had Conway LeBleu, a good friend and
• 6:24
  Bill Buford another fellow agent, was dead right beside me.
• 6:29
  Bill Buford He had been killed when we first got on the roof.
• 6:33
  Bill Buford And I crawled over to the edge of the roof and
• 6:36
  Bill Buford I was going to do a monkey drop off of the roof.
• 6:39
  Bill Buford And when I slugged my leg over, I just kept going.
• 6:43
  Bill Buford Fell down onto some four-wheelers they had parked down below.
• 6:48
  Bill Buford And a couple of the guys broke my fall, but
• 6:50
  Bill Buford I broke several ribs when I hit the wheelers.
• 6:54
  Bill Buford And I thought, oh, damn, they shot me in the chest.
• 6:56
  Bill Buford This isn't good.
• 6:58
  Bill Buford And that wasn't the case, but that's what I thought at first.
• 7:02
  Bill Erfirth What was your most serious injury?
• 7:07
  Bill Buford An AK ran to my hip.
• 7:11
  Bill Buford And they left the two bullets in there because they said they were
• 7:17
  Bill Buford too dangerous to try to take them out.
• 7:19
  Bill Buford The doctor in the emergency room said he couldn't take a piece of
• 7:23
  Bill Buford paper and put it between the bullet and my femoral artery.
• 7:27
  Bill Erfirth Wow.
• 7:28
  Bill Erfirth Crazy.
• 7:29
  Bill Erfirth And are there pictures?
• 7:31
  Bill Erfirth Did they ever come out?
• 7:32
  Bill Erfirth No, I still carry them.
• 7:36
  Craig Floyd There's pictures, Bill, of you on the front of a pickup truck, I
• 7:43
  Craig Floyd believe, as they were trying to get you out of there after you had
• 7:47
  Craig Floyd gotten off the roof and your colleagues were trying to help you get
• 7:51
  Craig Floyd the medical attention that you needed.
• 7:54
  Craig Floyd I'm just wondering, were you conscious at that point?
• 7:56
  Craig Floyd Do you remember any of that part of the story?
• 7:59
  Bill Buford I don't remember much of it.
• 8:01
  Bill Buford I was told later that they only had one ambulance.
• 8:05
  Bill Buford A couple of guys down at the roadblock, down the road, commandeered
• 8:10
  Bill Buford an ambulance that was there and drove up there.
• 8:13
  Bill Buford And it was full.
• 8:15
  Bill Buford They didn't have any more room.
• 8:16
  Bill Buford And I was one of the last ones they picked up.
• 8:19
  Bill Buford And so they carried me over there and
• 8:20
  Bill Buford just put me on the hood of that car.
• 8:23
  Bill Buford And I really don't remember being up there at all.
• 8:27
  Bill Buford One thing I would like to mention, there was another guy on our
• 8:31
  Bill Buford team, a team medic, Ken Chisholm.
• 8:35
  Bill Buford When I was laying on the ground and they started shooting at me,
• 8:39
  Bill Buford when they creased me across the nose, Ken
• 8:42
  Bill Buford jumped on top of me and covered me up with his body.
• 8:46
  Bill Buford Later I said, "Ken?"
• 8:48
  Bill Buford I said, "You know, they were shooting at you too, man."
• 8:50
  Bill Buford I said, "Why don't you do that?"
• 8:52
  Bill Buford He said, "I just wasn't going to let them shoot you anymore."
• 8:55
  Bill Buford Jeez.
• 8:56
  Bill Buford Crazy.
• 8:57
  Bill Buford Then he pulled me over to the side and actually I was going into
• 9:01
  Bill Buford shock and he started an IV on me
• 9:04
  Bill Buford while we were still getting shot at.
• 9:08
  Bill Erfirth So he said,
• 9:10
  Bill Erfirth "You know how to do an IV?"
• 9:12
  Bill Erfirth Or was he, oh, he was a medic.
• 9:16
  Bill Buford We didn't have an SRT medic at the time,
• 9:21
  Bill Buford but he was a paramedic before he came to ATF.
• 9:25
  Dennis Collins Got it.
• 9:26
  Dennis Collins Okay.
• 9:26
  Dennis Collins What I mean, this is what I love
• 9:28
  Dennis Collins about Heroes Behind the Badge podcast.
• 9:31
  Dennis Collins We're hearing stories that we would
• 9:33
  Dennis Collins never hear of heroism at all levels.
• 9:37
  Dennis Collins All levels.
• 9:39
  Dennis Collins That's the beauty of this.
• 9:40
  Dennis Collins I got a question though because in doing my
• 9:43
  Dennis Collins homework, I heard about there is a little box
• 9:50
  Dennis Collins that you keep near and dear to yourself
• 9:53
  Dennis Collins because inside that box is something very special.
• 9:57
  Dennis Collins Am I getting that story right?
• 9:59
  Dennis Collins Do you know what I'm talking about?
• 10:01
  Dennis Collins I'm not sure.
• 10:03
  Dennis Collins Okay.
• 10:03
  Dennis Collins Well, I'll tell you the story I heard and
• 10:05
  Dennis Collins then you can tell me if it's right or not.
• 10:07
  Dennis Collins Okay.
• 10:07
  Dennis Collins I heard that inside that box is a bullet fragment of some sort that
• 10:14
  Dennis Collins was intended for you when you were in the service, I think Vietnam?
• 10:19
  Dennis Collins Yes.
• 10:20
  Dennis Collins Yes.
• 10:21
  Dennis Collins And then somebody put a gun to your head or somewhere point blank,
• 10:25
  Dennis Collins pulled the trigger and it didn't fire.
• 10:27
  Dennis Collins And somehow you retrieved that slug and put
• 10:30
  Dennis Collins it in a box as a remembrance of your good luck.
• 10:34
  Dennis Collins Does that ring a bell?
• 10:36
  Dennis Collins No, that's correct.
• 10:37
  Dennis Collins Okay.
• 10:38
  Dennis Collins I got that right.
• 10:39
  Dennis Collins Okay.
• 10:40
  Bill Buford I was on operation out of Trabong in Vietnam
• 10:46
  Bill Buford and a VC popped up out of a spider hole about
• 10:53
  Bill Buford 10 feet in front of me, maybe 20 feet.
• 10:56
  Bill Buford And I heard the gun click and I dumped a 20
• 11:01
  Bill Buford round magazine on him and hit him one time, but
• 11:05
  Bill Buford I was a little excited at the time.
• 11:08
  Bill Buford But I went over and checked the gun and it was a French M.A.S.
• 11:14
  Bill Buford 36.
• 11:16
  Bill Buford I took the bullet out of the chamber
• 11:18
  Bill Buford and fire and paint had been dented, but I pulled the bullet out of
• 11:24
  Bill Buford the casing and there was no powder in it.
• 11:26
  Bill Buford And he had apparently reloaded all of his
• 11:29
  Bill Buford rounds and forgot to put powder in this one.
• 11:34
  Bill Buford I fired about another 10 rounds that he had and they all fired.
• 11:38
  Bill Buford I guess God just didn't want me to go that way.
• 11:40
  Craig Floyd Wow.
• 11:42
  Craig Floyd You've got more than nine lives, I think, my friend.
• 11:44
  Craig Floyd I don't know
• 11:46
  Dennis Collins that we've ever had a guest here
• 11:48
  Dennis Collins that had these many close encounters.
• 11:50
  Dennis Collins Unbelievable.
• 11:51
  Craig Floyd Yeah, Bill, so this is a good story and
• 11:55
  Craig Floyd Dennis has opened the door, so let's go there.
• 11:59
  Craig Floyd I can't believe how you got involved in Vietnam.
• 12:04
  Craig Floyd All right.
• 12:04
  Craig Floyd So what I remember, and you can get into the more details, but
• 12:10
  Craig Floyd you're playing football on a football scholarship at the Kansas.
• 12:15
  Craig Floyd And one of your teammates is the Hall of Famer, Gale Sayers, right?
• 12:19
  Craig Floyd So you're having a blast playing football in Kansas.
• 12:24
  Craig Floyd And as I recall you telling me, you heard something about Vietnam
• 12:30
  Craig Floyd and something was happening in Vietnam.
• 12:33
  Craig Floyd And you gave up your football scholarship, a very pleasant
• 12:38
  Craig Floyd environment there at the University of Kansas, and you decided to
• 12:41
  Craig Floyd sign up and become part of our military and went over to Vietnam.
• 12:46
  Craig Floyd Why did you do that?
• 12:48
  Craig Floyd I still can't understand it fully.
• 12:52
  Bill Buford I have a good reason why I did that.
• 12:54
  Bill Buford My family has had
• 12:58
  Bill Buford people, uncles and aunts, not aunts, uncles and brothers and things
• 13:03
  Bill Buford that all were a part of World War II in Korea.
• 13:07
  Bill Buford And they were my heroes growing up.
• 13:10
  Bill Buford And
• 13:11
  Bill Buford I just thought to myself, you know, there's a war going on and
• 13:16
  Bill Buford I'm old enough to go.
• 13:17
  Bill Buford I need to do it just because my Uncle Bud and my Uncle Johnny,
• 13:22
  Bill Buford my Uncle Johnny was wounded at the
• 13:24
  Bill Buford Battle of the Bulge in World War II.
• 13:26
  Bill Buford And my Uncle Bud was
• 13:30
  Bill Buford an artillery unit in Korea and a gun kicked back and ruined his
• 13:34
  Bill Buford knee for him when it kicked back one time.
• 13:38
  Bill Buford Those guys were just always my heroes
• 13:39
  Bill Buford and I wanted to try to live up to them.
• 13:42
  Bill Buford And at that time, they were just starting or getting some
• 13:48
  Bill Buford information out about the Green Berets.
• 13:51
  Bill Buford And I thought, you know, I'm gonna go near Army and I'm gonna
• 13:54
  Bill Buford become a Green Beret and go to Vietnam.
• 13:57
  Bill Buford And that's what I did.
• 13:59
  Bill Buford It was a stupid decision.
• 14:02
  Bill Erfirth I don't know about that.
• 14:03
  Bill Erfirth But then go on from what Craig just asked you to the next chapter
• 14:08
  Bill Erfirth of your life and tell the story how you ran into some ATF agents
• 14:16
  Bill Erfirth and you didn't even know what ATF was.
• 14:19
  Bill Erfirth You asked them, tell that story.
• 14:20
  Bill Erfirth And then how you became an ATF agent yourself.
• 14:24
  Bill Buford Yeah, I was living in Lawrence, Kansas.
• 14:26
  Bill Buford After I got out of the Army, I went back to Kansas to get a degree.
• 14:31
  Bill Buford And I was working for a private
• 14:33
  Bill Buford business there, a credit bureau actually.
• 14:36
  Bill Buford And
• 14:38
  Bill Buford there were still a lot of Vietnam War protesters.
• 14:41
  Bill Buford And on one particular night there, they had put bombs in seven
• 14:46
  Bill Buford different buildings in downtown Lawrence and had tried to burn the
• 14:49
  Bill Buford Student Union down at the University of Kansas.
• 14:53
  Bill Buford Well, one of the buildings that they
• 14:54
  Bill Buford bombed was the building I was working out of.
• 14:58
  Bill Buford And I went out there and these two
• 15:00
  Bill Buford guys were working the crime scene.
• 15:04
  Bill Buford And I said, you guys FBI agents?
• 15:06
  Bill Buford They said, no, we work for a living.
• 15:07
  Bill Buford I said, well, what does that mean?
• 15:09
  Bill Buford And
• 15:11
  Bill Buford they said,
• 15:12
  Bill Buford we're ATF agents.
• 15:13
  Bill Buford I said, what's ATF?
• 15:15
  Bill Buford I didn't have a clue.
• 15:15
  Bill Buford They said, alcohol, tobacco, and firearms.
• 15:18
  Bill Buford I says, what does that mean?
• 15:19
  Bill Buford And they said, we work guns, whiskey, and explosives.
• 15:23
  Bill Buford I said, hell, I can do that. 30 days later, I was working for ATF.
• 15:28
  Dennis Collins I got all that, huh?
• 15:30
  Bill Erfirth And you brought something up that's kind of
• 15:33
  Bill Erfirth an interesting dynamic in law enforcement.
• 15:35
  Bill Erfirth You know, everybody thinks oftentimes law enforcement is one big
• 15:39
  Bill Erfirth happy family, but there's always been, you know, a degree of
• 15:43
  Bill Erfirth competitiveness, maybe even taking it further beyond that.
• 15:47
  Bill Erfirth But, you know, you said you just made the joke
• 15:50
  Bill Erfirth about being a real working man versus FBI and ATF.
• 15:55
  Bill Erfirth And I have had a very good friend that worked for the DEA.
• 15:58
  Bill Erfirth And then I was detached to some federal task force as well.
• 16:01
  Bill Erfirth So I know the, the competitive
• 16:03
  Bill Erfirth competitiveness between the federal agencies.
• 16:07
  Bill Erfirth My point is here though, is, you know, ATF started this whole thing
• 16:12
  Bill Erfirth with David Koresh and the cult there, the
• 16:15
  Bill Erfirth Branch Davidians, but then FBI took it over.
• 16:19
  Bill Erfirth How did you and the ATF feel about the FBI doing that?
• 16:25
  Bill Buford Actually, ATF asked the FBI to come in and take over because we
• 16:30
  Bill Buford felt like we had already had enough bad publicity.
• 16:33
  Bill Buford And if there was another shootout and we killed a bunch of
• 16:37
  Bill Buford Davidians, it'd be like we were just seeking revenge.
• 16:40
  Bill Buford So the decision was made, and I believe it was the correct one to
• 16:44
  Bill Buford actually FBI to come in and take over
• 16:46
  Bill Buford the perimeter and do the negotiations.
• 16:48
  Bill Buford At that time, ATF had no trained negotiators.
• 16:52
  Bill Buford And although I have,
• 16:56
  Bill Buford regardless of what I said a minute ago about the FBI, I can't say
• 16:59
  Bill Buford anything bad about what the FBI did at Waco.
• 17:02
  Bill Buford They worked their butts off and tried
• 17:04
  Bill Buford to get everybody out of there alive.
• 17:06
  Bill Buford And what happened eventually on the 19th was not their fault.
• 17:12
  Bill Buford Yeah, that's good to know.
• 17:14
  Craig Floyd Well, a couple of final questions as we near close here.
• 17:19
  Craig Floyd Why did you go back to ATF?
• 17:22
  Craig Floyd I mean, you mentioned earlier you were in the shop four times
• 17:26
  Craig Floyd at Waco.
• 17:28
  Craig Floyd You were in the hospital for six weeks.
• 17:29
  Craig Floyd You nearly died.
• 17:31
  Craig Floyd And yet after you got out of the hospital,
• 17:34
  Craig Floyd after you rehabbed, you went back to ATF.
• 17:37
  Craig Floyd And it was only because of a mandatory
• 17:39
  Craig Floyd retirement age that you had to leave when you did.
• 17:43
  Craig Floyd Why did you go back?
• 17:46
  Bill Buford I just I loved the agency and I loved the people I've worked with.
• 17:52
  Bill Buford I owed it to the guys that were killed.
• 17:57
  Craig Floyd I
• 18:02
  Craig Floyd can't ask for more than that.
• 18:06
  Craig Floyd Thinking about Steve Willis, Conway LeBleu, Todd McKeehan, Rob
• 18:10
  Craig Floyd Williams, and any special remembrances,
• 18:15
  Craig Floyd descriptions of them that you'd like to share with us?
• 18:17
  Craig Floyd Because I love to tell the stories of fallen heroes.
• 18:20
  Craig Floyd And I do it every week in a podcast we do
• 18:23
  Craig Floyd called Heroes What would you say about each of them?
• 18:26
  Craig Floyd I don't know how close you were.
• 18:27
  Craig Floyd I know a couple of them were close friends.
• 18:29
  Craig Floyd I don't know if all four were, but any
• 18:32
  Craig Floyd special memories you'd like to share?
• 18:35
  Bill Buford Well, Steve Willis was out of Houston.
• 18:37
  Bill Buford I didn't really know him.
• 18:39
  Bill Buford I had met him, but that was it.
• 18:41
  Bill Buford But Conway and Todd McKeehan were out of New Orleans office also.
• 18:48
  Bill Buford Conway was actually stationed in Baton Rouge.
• 18:51
  Bill Buford But Conway and I had worked
• 18:53
  Bill Buford together on the SRT for about three years.
• 18:56
  Bill Buford And
• 18:58
  Bill Buford I don't know if I'll tell this, but we after we'd get through
• 19:02
  Bill Buford training, we sometimes would imbibe a little bit.
• 19:05
  Bill Buford And I remember going to a bar one night and they were doing shots
• 19:12
  Bill Buford at tequila where you laid on your back
• 19:14
  Bill Buford and they just pour a shot in your mouth.
• 19:16
  Bill Buford And
• 19:17
  Bill Buford how we got home that night, but he was a great guy, very outgoing,
• 19:27
  Bill Buford had a great family.
• 19:29
  Bill Buford And Rob Williams was out of my Little Rock office.
• 19:32
  Bill Buford I actually swore him in on the job.
• 19:35
  Bill Buford Usually a federal judge does it.
• 19:37
  Bill Buford And I said, "Bro, I'll get a federal judge to swear you in."
• 19:41
  Bill Buford And he said, "No, I want you to swear me in."
• 19:43
  Bill Erfirth Okay.
• 19:44
  Bill Buford So I swear him in.
• 19:45
  Bill Buford And
• 19:46
  Bill Buford he was a hard worker.
• 19:47
  Bill Buford This was a kid that
• 19:49
  Bill Buford if we got called out on the weekend, we always
• 19:52
  Bill Buford had one person on duty agent for the weekend.
• 19:55
  Bill Buford And if something came up, they would respond to it, or if they
• 19:57
  Bill Buford needed more people than they'd call me and I'd get more people out.
• 20:01
  Bill Buford But I can remember Rob coming into the office one day and he said,
• 20:06
  Bill Buford "Hey, I hear you all got called out on Saturday."
• 20:09
  Bill Buford And I said, "Yeah."
• 20:10
  Bill Buford We went out and I forget what it was we were doing.
• 20:13
  Bill Buford He says, "Well, damn, why didn't you call me?"
• 20:15
  Bill Buford He says, "I wasn't doing anything."
• 20:17
  Bill Buford He said, "I'll go.
• 20:18
  Bill Buford I'll go."
• 20:19
  Bill Buford He volunteered for everything.
• 20:22
  Bill Buford We started an explosives handler program.
• 20:26
  Bill Buford He was an explosives handler when we started
• 20:29
  Bill Buford the SRTs or back then the entry control team.
• 20:32
  Bill Buford He was the first one to volunteer for that.
• 20:35
  Bill Buford And the kid just worked 24-7 whenever he could and such a good guy.
• 20:43
  Bill Buford In fact, we still do a golf tournament in his honor called the Rob
• 20:48
  Bill Buford Williams Memorial Golf Tournament. 30 some
• 20:51
  Bill Buford years later, we've done it every year since 1993.
• 20:55
  Bill Buford But Rob was involved with Special
• 20:57
  Bill Buford Olympics, the law enforcement torch run.
• 21:00
  Bill Buford And he and I ran many a mile through Arkansas together.
• 21:03
  Bill Buford In fact, earlier he mentioned the monument we were standing in
• 21:07
  Bill Buford front of where they took a picture of Rob and I.
• 21:09
  Bill Buford And that was part of the torch run.
• 21:11
  Bill Buford We were running the torch through Arkansas at that time.
• 21:15
  Bill Buford But
• 21:16
  Bill Buford the golf tournament we...half of the
• 21:19
  Bill Buford money we raise goes to Special Olympics.
• 21:22
  Bill Buford The other half goes to a scholarship in Rob's name at the
• 21:25
  Bill Buford University of Arkansas in Little Rock.
• 21:28
  Bill Buford He was working on his master's degree in
• 21:30
  Bill Buford criminal justice at the time he was killed.
• 21:32
  Bill Buford Just the kind of kid you would want around you all the time because
• 21:37
  Bill Buford he was just so positive about everything.
• 21:41
  Bill Buford And it just
• 21:43
  Bill Buford tore my heart out when I saw him get shot.
• 21:45
  Bill Buford He was about five feet from me when he had happened.
• 21:48
  Dennis Collins I can't even imagine.
• 21:52
  Craig Floyd Here's something.
• 21:53
  Craig Floyd I appreciate those remembrances.
• 21:55
  Craig Floyd That's so special to bring that out so
• 21:57
  Craig Floyd people get to know these fallen heroes.
• 22:00
  Dennis Collins What can we say to you, Bill, other than a million thank yous for
• 22:04
  Dennis Collins sharing your story on Heroes Behind the Badge?
• 22:08
  Dennis Collins These are the stories, as I said
• 22:10
  Dennis Collins earlier, these are the ones that we don't know.
• 22:13
  Dennis Collins These are the ones that weren't publicized.
• 22:17
  Dennis Collins These are the ones the American public needs
• 22:19
  Dennis Collins to know your story and the ones just like it.
• 22:23
  Dennis Collins These are the ones that need to be told and remembered.
• 22:27
  Dennis Collins I'm really kind of shaken by your phrase,
• 22:35
  Dennis Collins "You owed it to the guys who were killed."
• 22:37
  Dennis Collins That is one of the most powerful things that
• 22:39
  Dennis Collins I think has ever been said on this podcast.
• 22:43
  Dennis Collins And remembering them the way you have,
• 22:46
  Dennis Collins supporting them by staying in the fight.
• 22:51
  Dennis Collins I don't know.
• 22:52
  Dennis Collins Isn't that the definition of a hero?
• 22:54
  Dennis Collins We think it is.
• 22:55
  Dennis Collins And we thank you on behalf of our nation and all of our fellow
• 23:01
  Dennis Collins Americans for your lifetime of service.
• 23:04
  Dennis Collins Not just ATF, but military, everything that
• 23:08
  Dennis Collins you did, your whole life was about service.
• 23:11
  Dennis Collins And it's very touching that you mentioned the family connection.
• 23:15
  Dennis Collins This was a legacy.
• 23:18
  Dennis Collins This was something that you were destined to do.
• 23:22
  Dennis Collins Thank God for that.
• 23:23
  Dennis Collins Thank God for your family and for you.
• 23:25
  Dennis Collins And let's hope that we have a lot more
• 23:28
  Dennis Collins people like you who see this as their legacy.
• 23:31
  Dennis Collins It's a little harder right now to police than it was in the past.
• 23:36
  Dennis Collins It's never been easy, but right now
• 23:38
  Dennis Collins there's a lot of, you know what, floating around.
• 23:43
  Dennis Collins And I will point to this interview with you if anybody doubts
• 23:50
  Dennis Collins going into a life of service in law enforcement.
• 23:54
  Dennis Collins So thank you for sharing it.
• 23:57
  Dennis Collins Very powerful, very impactful, and the
• 24:02
  Dennis Collins public needs to hear this, and now they will.
• 24:05
  Dennis Collins So thank you.
• 24:07
  Bill Buford Thank you.
• 24:08
  Bill Buford I appreciate the opportunity.
• 24:11
  Dennis Collins Thank you.
• 24:12
  Dennis Collins If you liked anything that Mr.
• 24:15
  Dennis Collins Bill Buford had to say, and if you didn't, you're not alive.
• 24:20
  Dennis Collins Okay?
• 24:21
  Dennis Collins Please subscribe, like, and follow our podcast.
• 24:26
  Dennis Collins This podcast is brought to you by Citizens Behind the Badge.
• 24:31
  Dennis Collins Citizens Behind the Badge is the leading organization in support of
• 24:35
  Dennis Collins the men and women of law enforcement,
• 24:39
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• 24:42
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• 24:45
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• 24:48
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• 24:56
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  Dennis Collins We would appreciate if you follow us, make comments if you heard
• 25:04
  Dennis Collins something you liked or something you didn't like today.
• 25:07
  Dennis Collins We will see you again on the next
• 25:10
  Dennis Collins episode of Heroes Behind the Badge.