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Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Dustin Kjersem - Dead by Bear? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:01
Speaker 1: Body Vitals with Joseph Scott More. There are two places
0:08
Speaker 1: in the US that I want to visit, and not
0:11
Speaker 1: just visit, I want to stay. I want to stay
0:13
Speaker 1: for a couple of weeks and just kind of soak
0:15
Speaker 1: things in, and to this point in my life, I've
0:19
Speaker 1: never been able to. The first one is Maine. I've
0:22
Speaker 1: always wanted to go to Maine. I've always wanted to
0:24
Speaker 1: see it to see if it is in fact as
0:28
Speaker 1: beautiful as I've imagined it to be. The rocky shoreline,
0:34
Speaker 1: you know, the evergreen forests that are there, the isolation,
0:39
Speaker 1: which sometimes is a good thing. The other place for me, though,
0:44
Speaker 1: is Montana. When I hear Montana and what people say
0:51
Speaker 1: about it, and the fact that the place actually has
0:56
Speaker 1: the title Big Sky, I've always wanted to go there,
1:01
Speaker 1: and I wanted to see it at night to see
1:04
Speaker 1: if everything it's true, that the clarity that you have
1:10
Speaker 1: when you look up into the sky and you can
1:13
Speaker 1: see the beautiful stars. But you know, Montana still to
1:20
Speaker 1: this day is a rugged in a dangerous place. Today,
1:27
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about a case involving a fellow who,
1:34
Speaker 1: at first glance apparently met his end at the hand
1:41
Speaker 1: of something that was rather savage up there. And I
1:47
Speaker 1: don't mean the wildlife. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this
1:54
Speaker 1: is Bodybags, my buddy Dave Max here with me. Dave,
2:00
Speaker 1: I got to tell you, you know, you know that
2:04
Speaker 1: Kim and I before we came to Jacksonville, Alabama, we
2:08
Speaker 1: were up in Delanaga, Georgia, which is up in the
2:12
Speaker 1: Blue Ridge, up in the northern part. I taught it
2:15
Speaker 1: at a university up there, and it was up there
2:17
Speaker 1: for about a decade and we had we had a
2:21
Speaker 1: little cabin that we lived in. It was purchased on
2:23
Speaker 1: the side of a hill, and I guess I was
2:26
Speaker 1: probably eight miles away from the campus. You get eight
2:30
Speaker 1: miles away from anywhere in Delanga, Georgia, and you're out.
2:36
Speaker 1: I mean you're out. It doesn't take that long. And
2:39
Speaker 1: the cool thing about this place was that adjacent to
2:43
Speaker 1: our property, our neighbor owned multiple rental cabins and it
2:50
Speaker 1: was on a big circle. And so when Noah, my
2:53
Speaker 1: son was little, Kim and I would take Noah and
2:58
Speaker 1: we'd go for walks every day, and we go out
3:00
Speaker 1: with our dogs. You know, we love dogs, and so
3:02
Speaker 1: we have rescues and we would go out with the
3:04
Speaker 1: dogs and hang out. And there was one of these
3:07
Speaker 1: cabins in particular that had a great port swing. We
3:12
Speaker 1: just go sit on the porch swing and watch the
3:15
Speaker 1: dogs run up and down the hill that's adjacent to it,
3:18
Speaker 1: and you know, it's very rugged terrain. And Noah was
3:24
Speaker 1: there and he had had a toy with him and
3:28
Speaker 1: he was playing right off the front of the porch
3:32
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, have you ever had your
3:34
Speaker 1: dog there with you and they spot something, They spot
3:37
Speaker 1: something or hear something that you can't pick up on it,
3:42
Speaker 1: but they do. Yeah, squirrel, and our dogs did that.
3:47
Speaker 1: They alerted like immediately, and they just froze. And these
3:51
Speaker 1: dogs never freeze. They're they're always very you know, kinectic.
3:57
Speaker 1: And so looked over and out of the corner of
4:03
Speaker 1: my eye, I thought I saw something move, and I
4:07
Speaker 1: stepped down off the porch and there one of my
4:13
Speaker 1: terriers was looking in the direction of the hill immediately
4:16
Speaker 1: adjacent to the cabin, and there was a full grown
4:22
Speaker 1: Eastern black bear. It was a mama. And the reason
4:26
Speaker 1: I know it was a mama is she had three
4:30
Speaker 1: of the cutest little cubs right behind her. And they're
4:33
Speaker 1: walking down the trail. Well, this is something I do
4:36
Speaker 1: know about bears is that, first off, Mama bear is
4:41
Speaker 1: the most dangerous creature on the face of planet, particularly
4:44
Speaker 1: when her cubs are around. And all I could think
4:49
Speaker 1: of was that this thing is going to come after us.
4:53
Speaker 1: And it is literally, i don't know, probably ten yards
4:58
Speaker 1: away from us from the edge of the porch, and
5:00
Speaker 1: they're going around the back of the cabin. And I
5:03
Speaker 1: looked over at Kim and I remember saying, don't make
5:06
Speaker 1: any quick movements, just sit right here. And of course
5:10
Speaker 1: Kim says, what is it? What is it? And the
5:13
Speaker 1: dogs are creeping toward this, and I'm like, get up
5:18
Speaker 1: off the porch, grab Noah, and walk up the hill
5:20
Speaker 1: and around, trying to take the greatest circumferences you possibly
5:24
Speaker 1: can away from this. And she reared up, Dave.
5:31
Speaker 2: She reared up on talking about Mary, not Kim, right, yeah.
5:37
Speaker 1: Ex fact, now, Kim has reared up on me a
5:38
Speaker 1: couple of times, but this animal reared up. And I,
5:44
Speaker 1: you know, I don't get scared very often by things.
5:49
Speaker 1: I didn't have a weapon with me. I'm just sitting
5:51
Speaker 1: there on the front porch, mine and my own businesses.
5:54
Speaker 1: Thing reared up and her cubs walked right behind her,
5:58
Speaker 1: except for one that stood there. Dave stared at us
6:01
Speaker 1: and it reared up. Oh wow, and I'm thinking, oh
6:04
Speaker 1: my lord, what are we going to do? What are
6:07
Speaker 1: we going to do? Well? I started making loud noises,
6:11
Speaker 1: you know, flailing my arms about Kim is like going
6:15
Speaker 1: up the hill with Noah. She's screaming at the dogs.
6:19
Speaker 1: The dogs are following, but they're still looking back over
6:22
Speaker 1: the shoulder, you know, kind of like a lot's wife,
6:25
Speaker 1: I guess. But anyway, they're trying to trying to get away.
6:30
Speaker 1: And all I could think about, I've had this incredible
6:35
Speaker 1: terror that kind of grabbed hold of me at that moment, Tom,
6:39
Speaker 1: because I wasn't asking for it. I didn't go out
6:42
Speaker 1: and seek the bear. You know, I'm not like one
6:44
Speaker 1: of these people. And I've seen this happen, particularly if
6:47
Speaker 1: we go the Great Smoking Mountains to the Smoking Mountain
6:50
Speaker 1: National Park. I've actually seen people approaching bears with cameras
6:55
Speaker 1: to take photos. They don't realize how fast they are.
6:58
Speaker 1: They think that they're these big, kind of slow lumber
7:01
Speaker 1: they're not. They can outrun a full grown man, and
7:05
Speaker 1: they are dangerous, very dangerous. Generally black bears, Eastern black
7:09
Speaker 1: bears are not. They're a bit more passive, but they're
7:12
Speaker 1: still dangerous animals. I don't think people appreciate that. So
7:17
Speaker 1: I've got a long way around the barn to tell
7:20
Speaker 1: this story. Because when you're face to face in that
7:24
Speaker 1: space with this animal, this is a wild animal. You're
7:28
Speaker 1: not at a zoo. This is their world. You're just
7:31
Speaker 1: kind of living in it. When the story came up
7:36
Speaker 1: and came across the wires that we're going to be
7:38
Speaker 1: talking about today on body bags, I thought, wow, this
7:43
Speaker 1: is something that you don't normally see, right, you know,
7:47
Speaker 1: you think about you hear bear attack, and I've seen
7:52
Speaker 1: images before. As a matter of fact, I talk about it.
7:55
Speaker 1: I teach a class in forensic odentology at Jacksonville State
8:00
Speaker 1: where I talked about bite marks and all these sorts
8:03
Speaker 1: of things, and I actually show injuries that have been
8:05
Speaker 1: generated by a variety of different animals, and the bear
8:10
Speaker 1: is always the most ghastly. I mean, it is absolutely horrible,
8:15
Speaker 1: absolutely horrible. It's very disordered, it's random, it's vicious. People
8:20
Speaker 1: just get shredded by these animals. And so when I
8:23
Speaker 1: heard about this case and that it was an alleged
8:27
Speaker 1: bear attack. I knew that we were going to have
8:29
Speaker 1: something to talk about.
8:30
Speaker 2: Brother. Well, it starts with a nine one one call
8:33
Speaker 2: from a friend who our victim is a thirty five
8:38
Speaker 2: year old man named Dustin. How are we going to pronounce?
8:41
Speaker 2: Isn't that last name? Joe? You'resome? It's it again, you'resome. You'resome? Okay, Dustin, y'resome?
8:50
Speaker 2: And he is a man's man. I was looking up
8:55
Speaker 2: this because of the story and what we're being told.
8:58
Speaker 2: And you get a thirty five your old man. He's
9:00
Speaker 2: a father, but he is. This guy is from Montana.
9:06
Speaker 2: And I'm gonna tell you. When you're from Montana and
9:08
Speaker 2: you're a dude and you're going camping, I kind of
9:10
Speaker 2: picture all these guys like Paul Bunyan, you know, they
9:14
Speaker 2: just I'm thinking you already live. Your neighborhood is probably
9:18
Speaker 2: like the great outdoors. To me, I would be John
9:21
Speaker 2: Candy on the floor.
9:23
Speaker 1: I gotta say this. He's not one of these Hollywood
9:28
Speaker 1: California guys that have relocated to Montana. This guy is
9:34
Speaker 1: like when you look him up, he's like the definition
9:36
Speaker 1: of Montana.
9:37
Speaker 2: You know, you see and this man's man. He has plans.
9:42
Speaker 2: He's going camping. And this is what I tell city
9:45
Speaker 2: people all the time, if you really want to know
9:48
Speaker 2: what it's like to go camping. One you mentioned bears, Joe. Yeah,
9:54
Speaker 2: my daughter Hannah took Braylan, who is nine, to Gatlin,
10:00
Speaker 2: Tennessee area for fall break. They just came back the
10:03
Speaker 2: other day. And while they were there, they went to
10:05
Speaker 2: an area called Cade's Cove, which is beautiful. If you've
10:08
Speaker 2: never seen it, yeah, it's incredible. And while they were there,
10:11
Speaker 2: they saw mama bear and her cubs on the wild
10:15
Speaker 2: They were in their car, and yet I'm listening as
10:18
Speaker 2: they're videoing this, and I'm like, in my head, roll
10:22
Speaker 2: your windows up. Roll your window is up. That's too close.
10:25
Speaker 2: Roll your windows up. And it's something they will learn
10:28
Speaker 2: as they get older. But I'm hearing my daughter talking
10:31
Speaker 2: to this wild bear like it's a puppy, and I'm going, baby,
10:35
Speaker 2: you gotta learn. This is not that they look sweet
10:38
Speaker 2: and all that, but this is not your pet. This
10:40
Speaker 2: is an animal. Granted, they're probably used to seeing people
10:44
Speaker 2: more than other bears in other parts of the country,
10:47
Speaker 2: but still a wild bear is a big danger and
10:51
Speaker 2: it was just funny.
10:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you see them, it reminds me of all
10:59
Speaker 1: those years that I was in South Louisiana, and I've
11:02
Speaker 1: actually been around people that for some reason they wanted
11:08
Speaker 1: to go close to the edge of the water they
11:11
Speaker 1: saw an alligator in the water. And I've had this
11:15
Speaker 1: happen a couple of times. It happened to me actually
11:17
Speaker 1: on a golf course years ago, where when you play
11:20
Speaker 1: golf in South Louisiana, all of the little retention ponds
11:23
Speaker 1: that they have there the water. We don't have many
11:26
Speaker 1: hills down south in South Louisiana, so the you know,
11:30
Speaker 1: when you think about these obstacles that they create on
11:34
Speaker 1: golf courses to you know, make it more difficult, water
11:37
Speaker 1: plays a big role. Well, if you have water down there,
11:42
Speaker 1: guess who's going to wind up in the water. You're
11:44
Speaker 1: going to have alligators. And I was always fascinated by
11:48
Speaker 1: people that would approach these things and without a without
11:53
Speaker 1: giving a second thought, they show no mercy whatsoever. You
11:57
Speaker 1: are food as far or a threat, right, And you know,
12:01
Speaker 1: I think more so a threat with a bear as
12:03
Speaker 1: opposed to food with an alligator. Your food, dude, I mean,
12:07
Speaker 1: that's what you are, and the fact that we have
12:10
Speaker 1: no we have no we have no sense, we have
12:14
Speaker 1: no sense of fear many times around and and so
12:18
Speaker 1: when I hear, when I hear anything that involves an
12:24
Speaker 1: animal attack, I'm always fascinated by this, certainly from a
12:27
Speaker 1: forensic standpoint, to try to understand it, what happened, What
12:31
Speaker 1: do the injuries look like? Because for every every animal
12:34
Speaker 1: that you have, their bite is going to be different.
12:41
Speaker 1: The destruction that they that they they reek over over
12:50
Speaker 1: an individual is going to vary, you know, dependent upon
12:54
Speaker 1: how they are set up at a very you know,
12:58
Speaker 1: the very primal level. So you know, I'm thinking, I
13:01
Speaker 1: hear this case about the bearitone and there's a lot
13:05
Speaker 1: more to this.
13:05
Speaker 2: But Joe, when you're going through boy Scouts and you're
13:09
Speaker 2: learning the camp you know, there's it starts at a
13:12
Speaker 2: young age, but then as you age up you go
13:14
Speaker 2: on different camping trips. As a boy scouting, I learned
13:18
Speaker 2: a lot of things in scouting. And one of the
13:22
Speaker 2: things that you learn when you're out off grade camping,
13:26
Speaker 2: you know, like and that's what we're talking about today.
13:29
Speaker 2: We're not talking about a camping area where you pull
13:31
Speaker 2: your car up and can plug into an outlet, and
13:32
Speaker 2: all that this is. This is camping where you look
13:36
Speaker 2: around and you find a relatively flat place to put
13:39
Speaker 2: your tent up. And they always tell you in boy
13:42
Speaker 2: Scouts you take all of your food and you hang it,
13:45
Speaker 2: hang it, yep. And by the way, that includes toothpaste.
13:49
Speaker 2: You hang anything that has a smell, and you hang
13:52
Speaker 2: it on a branch high enough up where it can
13:54
Speaker 2: because bears are attracted to this. You do not want
13:57
Speaker 2: a bear coming into your tent looking for your cookies.
14:01
Speaker 2: And knowing that, and seeing the headline on this story
14:04
Speaker 2: that a nine to one one call comes in and
14:06
Speaker 2: the man says, I was supposed to meet my friend
14:11
Speaker 2: and he never showed up, so I went looking for him,
14:15
Speaker 2: found his tent, and I think he has been killed
14:20
Speaker 2: by a bear. There are so many things in that
14:24
Speaker 2: nine to one one call, or that we've been told.
14:26
Speaker 2: I have not heard the call yet, it hasn't been released,
14:28
Speaker 2: but what I have heard about what was said on
14:31
Speaker 2: that call, Joe. Immediately my thought went to your discussion
14:35
Speaker 2: a couple of shows ago about the finder, the person
14:39
Speaker 2: who finds the victim. And I looked at what the
14:44
Speaker 2: finder said, what the person the victim was doing. And
14:49
Speaker 2: you put all this together and you're thinking, these people
14:53
Speaker 2: know what the outdoors is like, the finder and the victim.
14:56
Speaker 2: They know what it is to do real camping. They
14:59
Speaker 2: know what it's like to be in the woods. They
15:01
Speaker 2: know the type of animals that are out there to
15:04
Speaker 2: do you harm. And I'm putting all that into play
15:08
Speaker 2: as I look at this, and I'm thinking bear attack. Huh.
15:14
Speaker 2: When the Sheriff's department gets out there, Joe, they take
15:19
Speaker 2: a look. They've been told bear attack, so they're thinking that,
15:23
Speaker 2: but they immediately start looking in the area, and what
15:26
Speaker 2: they don't find is any sign of bear activity.
15:31
Speaker 1: Yeah. And these people are to be a law enforcement
15:35
Speaker 1: officer in Montana, and it was actually the Wildlife Gain
15:40
Speaker 1: people you know that made this assessment. You know. But
15:43
Speaker 1: I think that even your regular deputy that's on patrol
15:49
Speaker 1: out there, they encounterbears. I mean, that's that's the nature
15:53
Speaker 1: of living out there, and even they understand what to
15:59
Speaker 1: look for with bears. First off, you know you're going
16:03
Speaker 1: to look and see. One of the biggest things is
16:06
Speaker 1: obviously prints. They're very distinctive. You know, when you see them,
16:10
Speaker 1: you're looking for where they refer to as scat, which
16:13
Speaker 1: is their waste that's out in that area, and you'll
16:19
Speaker 1: get a sense and many times with bears in particular,
16:22
Speaker 1: you'll see I've seen this even with Eastern black bears,
16:26
Speaker 1: where they will scratch on trees and they'll create these
16:29
Speaker 1: huge marks. And that's another thing that's another like dose
16:35
Speaker 1: of reality. When you see these scratch marks that they'll
16:38
Speaker 1: make on trees and whatnot. Suddenly you have this realization
16:43
Speaker 1: of what could what this thing can do with merely
16:47
Speaker 1: a swipe a swipe of one of their paws. And
16:52
Speaker 1: you're talking about and they have these these retractable claws
16:56
Speaker 1: as well. I don't think that they're retractable to the
16:59
Speaker 1: level of like a cat, but you don't fully appreciate
17:03
Speaker 1: these things when you see those hands the bear's pause
17:06
Speaker 1: rather not hands, when you see them kind of extended
17:10
Speaker 1: out and you get an idea as to how big
17:14
Speaker 1: these claws are. That the same has we're not even
17:16
Speaker 1: talking about the teeth man, and they are absolutely rais
17:21
Speaker 1: or sharp. So one of the things that I think
17:24
Speaker 1: as an investigator that you're trying to understand when you
17:31
Speaker 1: are trying to assess an area where an animal attack
17:34
Speaker 1: has taken place. You're not going to look for, Dave,
17:38
Speaker 1: to be ordered. There is not an ordered event when
17:42
Speaker 1: it comes to a wild animal attacking. And you know
17:47
Speaker 1: when the police get out there, they get out to
17:50
Speaker 1: this site and they're looking around. You don't see things
17:55
Speaker 1: ripto shreds. You don't see things overturned. Heck, even see
18:01
Speaker 1: evidence in the dirt that there's been a scuffle, a struggle.
18:05
Speaker 1: You don't even see blood. And I got to tell you,
18:08
Speaker 1: when it comes to an attack like that, you would
18:12
Speaker 1: see total and complete chaos. Dave. You know, a few
18:31
Speaker 1: moments ago you had mentioned the initial reporter or finder,
18:38
Speaker 1: you know, in a case, And isn't that interesting how
18:44
Speaker 1: a narrative will begin with that initial statement that the
18:48
Speaker 1: finder makes. So even though the finder might not be
18:53
Speaker 1: qualified to assess a situation. You see this with suicides
18:58
Speaker 1: a lot. I think that I think that you know,
19:02
Speaker 1: you're going to call, and it's like I think that
19:05
Speaker 1: my friend, my family member has uh has been you know, murdered,
19:11
Speaker 1: and you get out there and then you discover there's
19:13
Speaker 1: a weapon underneath the body, that this person has self
19:19
Speaker 1: inflicted as opposed to just being you know, something else.
19:24
Speaker 1: You walk onto a scene where you see horrible injuries
19:29
Speaker 1: on a body. I think that the mind goes to, Okay,
19:35
Speaker 1: what could have generated this kind of injury and what
19:41
Speaker 1: is there out here that could facilitate this? And automatically
19:44
Speaker 1: your mind goes to bear attack because that's what inhabits
19:48
Speaker 1: this area, grizzlies and black bears by the way, in
19:52
Speaker 1: this particular region. And so you know, you kind of
19:55
Speaker 1: take your pick as to you know what. You know,
19:58
Speaker 1: you don't know what species, but automatically you didn't say
20:02
Speaker 1: panther attack or mountain lion attack. Rather, I think or
20:07
Speaker 1: it was a bobcat. You say bear, And so that
20:12
Speaker 1: gets I printed in your brain as an investigator, and
20:14
Speaker 1: you start working this thing. If you're not careful, you
20:18
Speaker 1: get tunnel vision really really quickly because you're not looking
20:22
Speaker 1: at any other options. In this case. Got to tell you, Dave,
20:29
Speaker 1: the evidence of a bear attack was greatly lacking, to
20:33
Speaker 1: say the least.
20:34
Speaker 2: His campsite is about two and a half miles up
20:39
Speaker 2: what they call Moose Creek Road, and the way it
20:42
Speaker 2: was written was up Moose Creek Road, and that's where
20:47
Speaker 2: he put his tent. Now his friend finds him at
20:52
Speaker 2: ten am Saturday morning. I'm going to go on the
20:57
Speaker 2: assumption because it has been said there is no such
21:00
Speaker 2: dealer's service there at the ten site that he sees
21:04
Speaker 2: what has taken place, and he has to go back
21:07
Speaker 2: to an area to call nine one one. Knowing how
21:12
Speaker 2: these calls often go, the operator is asking you to
21:15
Speaker 2: give them specific information on site, but he wouldn't be
21:19
Speaker 2: on site making the nine one one call. He would
21:22
Speaker 2: be away from it. So the things that the operator
21:25
Speaker 2: would know would need to know to pass along to
21:28
Speaker 2: law enforcement, they can't get. It's going to be I
21:32
Speaker 2: saw this briefly, but I can't go check it now
21:35
Speaker 2: because it's two and a half miles away or whatever.
21:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I got a let's take a pause here
21:40
Speaker 1: and consider the environment that we're working in. They you know,
21:45
Speaker 1: we're looking at it. I think probably from their perspective,
21:50
Speaker 1: are from our perspective relative to being in maybe not
21:54
Speaker 1: a densely populated urban area, but populated certainly populated compared
22:01
Speaker 1: to to Montana, like where we live, or if you're
22:06
Speaker 1: in Atlanta or Birmingham or you know, Nashville or whatever.
22:11
Speaker 1: They adjust to this though, and so they they're keen
22:15
Speaker 1: to it because this is the area in which they police.
22:18
Speaker 1: You can imagine some of these calls that a nine
22:21
Speaker 1: one one operator might get up there and you're saying,
22:25
Speaker 1: you know, and they're giving you a reference. Well, it's
22:27
Speaker 1: where the big ledge right ledges hanging over the dirt road.
22:31
Speaker 1: You pointed that out, Yeah, exactly, And so they're you know,
22:34
Speaker 1: they're thinking about about this. You know how you know,
22:38
Speaker 1: they know where Moose Creek Road is, and they know
22:41
Speaker 1: that there's an intersection up there of say an adjacent road.
22:48
Speaker 1: I think that, and it's a spot. It's a spot
22:53
Speaker 1: that other hunters go to, you know, because you know
22:59
Speaker 1: there's hunters, outfitters, campers and people that just want to
23:03
Speaker 1: get away. But you know, you've got like Moose Creek
23:07
Speaker 1: Road and it's near Tampery Creek Road, so you've got
23:11
Speaker 1: that intersection to work on. But yeah, I mean, you're
23:14
Speaker 1: talking about going two and a half miles off the
23:18
Speaker 1: road back up into an area and and it would
23:24
Speaker 1: seem to imply that he's been there before, can you
23:27
Speaker 1: think so? I mean, because you're not going to show
23:30
Speaker 1: up there just randomly. You're going to know, you're going
23:33
Speaker 1: to know the area. It's a select area. I don't know.
23:36
Speaker 1: Maybe he's hunted fish trapped in that area before. Maybe
23:40
Speaker 1: it's just a good place he likes to go and
23:42
Speaker 1: get away. Maybe maybe he likes the fact he doesn't
23:45
Speaker 1: have cell service up there.
23:47
Speaker 2: Could be and based on again going back to the
23:50
Speaker 2: timeline here, you know of when he was seen and
23:52
Speaker 2: what his plan was, he was already planning on being
23:54
Speaker 2: there for the overnight time, you know, Thursday night and
23:57
Speaker 2: a Friday by himself. He's got a plan to meet
24:00
Speaker 2: his friend Friday afternoon and he doesn't show. I don't
24:04
Speaker 2: know when the friend. I don't know if the friends
24:05
Speaker 2: started looking for him Friday afternoon when he didn't show,
24:08
Speaker 2: or if he just waited. And so you know, I'll
24:10
Speaker 2: go if I don't hear from him tonight, I'll go
24:12
Speaker 2: looking in the morning. The fact they found him at
24:14
Speaker 2: ten am sounds about right to me that he would
24:17
Speaker 2: start looking in the Saturday morning. But Joe, we've got
24:21
Speaker 2: the guy calling in a vicious bear attack or he
24:23
Speaker 2: tells nine one one it looks like a bear attack,
24:26
Speaker 2: which I'm going to go out on a limb here
24:29
Speaker 2: and say, if it was a bear attack, the tent
24:32
Speaker 2: would not be standing up mister bear doesn't walk. It's
24:35
Speaker 2: not Yogi and booboo. They're not walking into the tent,
24:38
Speaker 2: killing somebody and then leaving the tent. The tent is
24:42
Speaker 2: going to be torn to smith the reens, I would think.
24:45
Speaker 2: And if the tint, if the bear, if a bear
24:48
Speaker 2: attack took place inside a tent, there's gonna be shredded everything.
24:52
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it'll be completely shredded. And you'll see what.
24:58
Speaker 1: Another thing that you're going to see that will be
25:00
Speaker 1: associated with this is the bear planting its feet solidly,
25:07
Speaker 1: rising up probably on its haunches or on its rear legs,
25:11
Speaker 1: and then swiping with the leading you know, with the
25:14
Speaker 1: leading paw, and you'll see these kind of gouge marks
25:19
Speaker 1: in the ground where they're trying to, you know, the
25:21
Speaker 1: animals trying to leverage itself in order to facilitate this attack.
25:26
Speaker 1: And so with that, with that playing a part in it,
25:29
Speaker 1: you would get up there, it would seem like it
25:34
Speaker 1: would seem like total chaos in this environment, and there
25:39
Speaker 1: would be evidence of that. But you're talking about from
25:43
Speaker 1: what we can ascertain, we've got an individual that has
25:47
Speaker 1: walked in to a site, he's found his friend, he's
25:53
Speaker 1: in what we believe is an intact tent, which a
25:58
Speaker 1: tent for a bear is nothing, a camper is nothing
26:02
Speaker 1: for a bear. It really provides you. Oh yeah, I
26:05
Speaker 1: mean it could. I think that it could. Particularly like
26:10
Speaker 1: for instance, we you know, I know that, you know,
26:14
Speaker 1: we were when the kids were little. We took up
26:17
Speaker 1: a pop up camper up to what's referred to as
26:21
Speaker 1: Rhan Mountain, which is a far eastern Tennessee It's one
26:24
Speaker 1: of my favorite areas of the country, and camped up there.
26:28
Speaker 1: We had bears outside outside of our pop up camper
26:33
Speaker 1: there with the kids in it. And you have not
26:37
Speaker 1: lived until you hear the sound of first off, a
26:44
Speaker 1: bear blowing like that, and then here's the other thing
26:49
Speaker 1: that's really chilling them sniffing. It's really really loud, and
26:53
Speaker 1: Wen you could hear it outside of our camper. So yeah,
27:00
Speaker 1: they'll rip things to shreds. And they're not they're not ordered,
27:04
Speaker 1: you know, it's not like it's not like you're going
27:08
Speaker 1: to show up at a scene and there's been a
27:11
Speaker 1: bear attack and everything is in that's it's been staged
27:15
Speaker 1: in somebody where it's very neat, you know, and and
27:18
Speaker 1: it's just it's pristine and you've just got a traumatize
27:21
Speaker 1: you happen to have a traumatized body line there with
27:24
Speaker 1: ghastly injuries and there's no other evidence that this had occurred.
27:29
Speaker 2: Which is exactly what happened here. They got there and
27:31
Speaker 2: went no way. I mean, you know, they got to
27:33
Speaker 2: this campsite and said they they're thinking bear. But there's
27:38
Speaker 2: something that you actually have taught me, and that is
27:41
Speaker 2: every death is treated as a homicide until you did
27:44
Speaker 2: it no differently. Yeah, And as they're walking into this,
27:48
Speaker 2: on the one hand, they're going, okay, guy said bear attack.
27:51
Speaker 2: That'll be an obvious Get We're going to walk up
27:53
Speaker 2: there and we're going to see the scattered remains of
27:56
Speaker 2: the campsite and the human being that is no longer
27:59
Speaker 2: with us. And they get there and don't find that
28:03
Speaker 2: they I'm going to go on an assumption here, Joe,
28:08
Speaker 2: that they look at one another and go, where's the finder?
28:12
Speaker 2: You know, where's the guy that called this in?
28:15
Speaker 1: Yeah? Because you know, how how did you? How did
28:18
Speaker 1: you make this assessment? And look, it's it's when you
28:22
Speaker 1: have somebody making this kind of assessment that is familiar
28:25
Speaker 1: with this area. Now, I don't know if this finder
28:27
Speaker 1: has ever seen a bear attack. I have no idea,
28:30
Speaker 1: but if they're a native to that area, you have
28:34
Speaker 1: to assume that they've at least seen trash cans turned over,
28:38
Speaker 1: they've seen things torn open, and I have I've seen
28:43
Speaker 1: a bear go through an area relative to food. You
28:45
Speaker 1: know you were talking about hanging food up. I've seen
28:48
Speaker 1: picnic tables that are overturned where they're just sniffing through
28:52
Speaker 1: that huge snout that they have. You know, their their
28:56
Speaker 1: sense of smell is equal to that of a dog,
29:01
Speaker 1: if not more powerful, actually, because that's how they find food.
29:07
Speaker 1: It's not like they're necessarily hunting with their eyes. They're
29:09
Speaker 1: trying to catch catch wind of something where they can go,
29:13
Speaker 1: and they'll eat just about anything. You know, they'll eat.
29:17
Speaker 1: What they refer to is like Karen, you know the
29:21
Speaker 1: things that are left behind that are rotting. They're not
29:24
Speaker 1: going to necessarily go out and kill a deer, but
29:29
Speaker 1: if they find a dead deer, they'll feast on it. Now,
29:32
Speaker 1: they will eat smaller animals, they'll eat grubs, they'll eat berries.
29:36
Speaker 1: You know, bears famously eat berries. You know, it's one
29:39
Speaker 1: of things you Joki bear. You know they're going to eat.
29:43
Speaker 1: They're just they just want to eat. Think about you
29:47
Speaker 1: think about the size of one of these things. Just
29:49
Speaker 1: think about the size of it. They're massive, all right,
29:53
Speaker 1: We're talking for five hundred pounds, dude. Do you realize
29:56
Speaker 1: how much gasoline you got to have in the tank
29:58
Speaker 1: to power that thing? So it's a it's a constant
30:02
Speaker 1: search for food, always, always, and they'll go to any
30:06
Speaker 1: links to get it, particularly if they're trying to feed.
30:09
Speaker 1: Maybe they've got cubs, we don't know. So what is this?
30:12
Speaker 1: Are we talking about a single male bear that's walking
30:16
Speaker 1: around here that's just scavenging? Are we look? Is this
30:22
Speaker 1: a mother bear that's trying to feed these babies that
30:25
Speaker 1: she's got. And you know they're going to understand, you know,
30:28
Speaker 1: what time of year would she would she have children
30:32
Speaker 1: on board? How old would would the I say children?
30:36
Speaker 1: Would she have cubs on board that perhaps have yet
30:40
Speaker 1: to be born? Or does she have them trailing? After all,
30:45
Speaker 1: these things are going to come into play when you
30:47
Speaker 1: begin to assess this. And here's the key. The people
30:51
Speaker 1: that are actually doing the assessment on the scene are
30:54
Speaker 1: highly skilled because it's not simply a deputy sheriff that's
30:59
Speaker 1: out there the clues were discovered by the wildlife fisheries
31:05
Speaker 1: officers that showed up. Because there's one thing that they
31:08
Speaker 1: do know. They know about animal life and they know
31:12
Speaker 1: what they're capable of. Dave, am I right? Did they
31:31
Speaker 1: do a descriptor of the injuries that this young man
31:35
Speaker 1: sustained out there at the scene?
31:38
Speaker 2: You know, Joe? They have, They actually have an autopsy report,
31:43
Speaker 2: but we haven't seen it yet, but they've referred to it.
31:46
Speaker 2: They being the sheriff and those involved in this investigation,
31:50
Speaker 2: they have referred to the autopsy report backing up their
31:53
Speaker 2: assessment that this was not a bear attack. And Joe,
31:58
Speaker 2: what they have said, I want to get this right, Okay,
32:02
Speaker 2: the they don't know what sort of weapon was used,
32:10
Speaker 2: but they know it was something that was hard enough
32:12
Speaker 2: to cause significant damage. And according to Detective Captain Nate Camerman,
32:19
Speaker 2: the victim, Dustin has multiple chop wounds. Chop wounds, that's
32:26
Speaker 2: the phrase used here, chop wounds. I'm thinking axe hatchet,
32:33
Speaker 2: tomahawk chop, you know, watching ball games when they do
32:37
Speaker 2: the tomahawk chop or whatever. And I know that's all
32:41
Speaker 2: politically incorrect now to say something like that, but.
32:43
Speaker 1: I mean I don't care.
32:44
Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure out what a chop wound would
32:47
Speaker 2: look like. I've used an axe. I've used a hatchet
32:51
Speaker 2: on wood, not human beings, but on wood, and I
32:53
Speaker 2: know that sometimes it gets stuck and you have to
32:56
Speaker 2: wedge it out a little bit with using your foot.
32:58
Speaker 2: And so what are we talking about with chopp wounds
33:01
Speaker 2: on a human being?
33:02
Speaker 1: Joe, Well, you're first off, when you strike someone with
33:07
Speaker 1: a heavy edged weapon, which if you're okay, let's just
33:11
Speaker 1: let's kind of take it down the list here. We
33:15
Speaker 1: could we could think about a machete, okay, which is
33:20
Speaker 1: you know, people think a machete is kind of like
33:22
Speaker 1: a big knife or it's kind of uh, you know,
33:26
Speaker 1: some people might view a machete because it's got a
33:28
Speaker 1: hilt guard on it and everything is like a sword,
33:30
Speaker 1: all right, it's not. Machetes are created to chop with
33:35
Speaker 1: and famously, you know, they've been used all over the world,
33:38
Speaker 1: even in wartime relative to clearing brush. If you're trying
33:42
Speaker 1: to you know, our guys in Vietnam, you know, had
33:44
Speaker 1: machetes because the brush is so so you're you're cutting
33:47
Speaker 1: and it's a tool too. I mean that you would
33:49
Speaker 1: use to cut sugarcane with, for instance.
33:51
Speaker 2: And it tires you out very quickly. If you vague
33:54
Speaker 2: you never used one.
33:55
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, it is tiresome. But they're they're created
34:00
Speaker 1: in a very specific manner, and the weight is on
34:03
Speaker 1: the backstrap of this thing so that when you're delivering
34:07
Speaker 1: delivering a blow. And I think that probably a machete
34:10
Speaker 1: is the least of these as far as the damage
34:13
Speaker 1: it can do. You're trying to direct that energy that
34:20
Speaker 1: is being generated as you swing this thing down. You've
34:22
Speaker 1: got top end weight, you've got a sharp leading edge.
34:26
Speaker 1: The one thing that you're going to see with a
34:29
Speaker 1: chop wound with a machete. First off, it's going to
34:32
Speaker 1: be kind of long compared to a hatchet or an axe,
34:38
Speaker 1: will it will be kind of shallow. Well, if you
34:41
Speaker 1: go to a hatchet, it's got more weight to it,
34:46
Speaker 1: and it is. If you've never held a hatchet, think
34:50
Speaker 1: about a hammer, Okay, a hammer with a weighted blade
34:55
Speaker 1: on the end of it. Now, some people, you know,
34:58
Speaker 1: hatchets have multiple utility. I've used them many times to
35:03
Speaker 1: drive in tent steaks when we go out tent camping,
35:07
Speaker 1: and you can flip it around on the blooded edge
35:10
Speaker 1: and drive in tent steaks. You can flip it over
35:12
Speaker 1: to the other side and you can use it chop wood,
35:15
Speaker 1: break up, kindling, those sorts of things, Okay, a multi
35:18
Speaker 1: use tool, and a lot of people that camp carry hatchets. Okay,
35:23
Speaker 1: Then you get up to something like an axe. Most
35:27
Speaker 1: of the time, you're not going to come across say,
35:29
Speaker 1: for instance, a two bladed axe. I think we think
35:31
Speaker 1: about that. You'd mentioned Paul Bundy in a moment ago.
35:35
Speaker 1: You know, he famously carries a two sided or a
35:38
Speaker 1: two bladed axe. Generally, you're going to have an individual
35:42
Speaker 1: blade and it'll be weighted on the back and again
35:44
Speaker 1: this idea, it's like a giant wedge being driven through
35:47
Speaker 1: the air so that when it slams down onto the target,
35:51
Speaker 1: you're going to get depth with it. Okay, the more
35:54
Speaker 1: leverage that you can apply, that's going to translate to
35:57
Speaker 1: the weight of that blade and then end up that
36:01
Speaker 1: energy transferring onto the surface. You're going to have the
36:05
Speaker 1: skin that will have these really neat kind of margins
36:09
Speaker 1: to it, because you're talking about a machine edged blade.
36:15
Speaker 1: But the other thing that you're going to get with
36:17
Speaker 1: it is that the heavier the acts, the deeper it's
36:20
Speaker 1: going to go. So you begin to impact the underlying muscle.
36:26
Speaker 1: You also begin to impact the skeletal structures below. But
36:31
Speaker 1: you know, Dave, those skeletal structures below are equally going
36:35
Speaker 1: to be if they're struck by an edged weapon like
36:38
Speaker 1: this in a chopping motion, they will have neat edges
36:43
Speaker 1: on them as well. So you can actually see this
36:45
Speaker 1: on the markings of the bone. The bone will fracture,
36:51
Speaker 1: but it's not it's not going to be to the
36:55
Speaker 1: point where you can't appreciate the margins of the instruments
37:00
Speaker 1: being used. So you would actually look at this as
37:02
Speaker 1: a matter of fact. One of the things that you
37:04
Speaker 1: would do with a case like this at the Morgue
37:07
Speaker 1: is you're going to do initially the initial assessment externally
37:13
Speaker 1: where you're you know, you're gauging these injuries and all
37:15
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. But then you'll actually dissect out
37:18
Speaker 1: the wound and you can go down. Now you'll have
37:21
Speaker 1: X rays too, but you will go down and examine
37:23
Speaker 1: the bone as well as you might even cut out
37:25
Speaker 1: that bone. You'll take that bone and save it. Okay,
37:29
Speaker 1: to demonstrate this in a future case, all right, now
37:34
Speaker 1: if we drop back just for a second and think
37:37
Speaker 1: about a bear attack for instance, Okay, well the bear attack.
37:44
Speaker 1: If you're thinking about a bear attack, and what was it?
37:47
Speaker 1: See I mentioned just a few seconds ago the two
37:50
Speaker 1: species of bears that they have up there, like black
37:53
Speaker 1: bear and grizzly. Well, black bears, they do. Black bears
38:01
Speaker 1: and grizzlies obviously use their paws to attack, all right,
38:05
Speaker 1: and you'll get these you'll get these swipes at the individual.
38:10
Speaker 1: I saw an image of a guy that had gotten
38:12
Speaker 1: attacked by a by grizzly at at a point time.
38:18
Speaker 1: His face was greatly disfigured and wound up having extensive
38:23
Speaker 1: plastic surgery. But the initial image that you see, you
38:28
Speaker 1: can actually pick up on the pattern because you're not
38:31
Speaker 1: like if it's a paw or claw. Rather, you're not
38:35
Speaker 1: just going to have a single linear mark that's going
38:39
Speaker 1: to run on a face or on a chest. You're
38:42
Speaker 1: going to have this times for probably. Okay, so it's
38:47
Speaker 1: like a giant rake, if you will, a very heavy
38:50
Speaker 1: robust rake that you will see with these kind of
38:53
Speaker 1: claw marks. But that's not really what's going to do
38:57
Speaker 1: you in with a bear attack. Bear attack is actually
39:01
Speaker 1: going to be them using their jaws, okay, because once
39:06
Speaker 1: they swipe at you and knock you down, all right,
39:09
Speaker 1: they're going after you with their mouth. And a bear
39:14
Speaker 1: has about I think a grizzly bear can generate about
39:18
Speaker 1: thirteen hundred psi pounds per square inch, And to put
39:23
Speaker 1: that in perspective, that's more than a Bengal tiger. All right.
39:29
Speaker 1: Now you can get out to alligators and crocs and
39:34
Speaker 1: great whites. Great whites I think go up to like
39:36
Speaker 1: thirty two hundred psi. So, but what do you get
39:42
Speaker 1: when when you have that kind of pressure directly applied
39:45
Speaker 1: to an area, particularly a bony structure. Well, i'll tell
39:49
Speaker 1: you what you're going to get. You're going to get fractured,
39:54
Speaker 1: fragmented bone that's beneath that, and it is going to
39:58
Speaker 1: be so ghastly. And you see these injuries because the
40:02
Speaker 1: motion of an animal. If you've ever seen a dog,
40:07
Speaker 1: for instance, where they are taking apart a piece of meat.
40:13
Speaker 1: Let's say you give them a steak bone and they've
40:16
Speaker 1: got it collapsed between their paws. They bite into the steakbone.
40:20
Speaker 1: They're trying to get to the meat. They will bite
40:25
Speaker 1: and pull the rip. That's one of the reasons the
40:27
Speaker 1: canines prominent, the pointy teeth that we have, you know,
40:31
Speaker 1: in our maxillary and our mangellary teeth, the canines are
40:37
Speaker 1: meant for ripping. Just take a look at the teeth
40:39
Speaker 1: of a bear. Sometimes you'll see those canones very prominently featured.
40:44
Speaker 1: And so they're trying to grab hold with their paws
40:49
Speaker 1: as they've got something be pinned down. Then they bite
40:52
Speaker 1: into it and they they'll turn their head and rip
40:55
Speaker 1: at the same time. This is very disordered day, this
40:58
Speaker 1: is chaotic. You see these kinds of injuries and a
41:01
Speaker 1: body would be covered with them. That's not what they're
41:04
Speaker 1: saying here, Dave. They're saying that these injuries that in
41:09
Speaker 1: this isolated location two and half miles from where his
41:15
Speaker 1: truck would have been off the beaten path. Back in
41:18
Speaker 1: this isolated area, somebody came after this guy with an
41:24
Speaker 1: instrument that he could be chopped with these And what
41:28
Speaker 1: they're saying is is that I can't remember the gentleman's
41:32
Speaker 1: name that gave the press conference, but he had mentioned
41:37
Speaker 1: specifically that these were chop chop injuries, and he's in
41:45
Speaker 1: the police officer that released information. It's not him making
41:48
Speaker 1: this assessment. They took his body and had his body
41:54
Speaker 1: autopsied by forensic pathologists. I suspect somewhere like Bozeman or whatnot,
42:00
Speaker 1: and they took his body and had an autopsy. You've
42:03
Speaker 1: got a forensic pathologist making this assessment. They've documented every
42:07
Speaker 1: bit of this day.
42:08
Speaker 2: And that's why we looked at the case from the
42:12
Speaker 2: standpoint of the finder saying it was a bear attack
42:15
Speaker 2: and the actual experts saying, huh uh, this does not
42:21
Speaker 2: show any sign of bear attack. There's nothing around the campsite.
42:25
Speaker 2: There's no sign of bear activity around this area.
42:29
Speaker 1: Here's one other thing. I got to go back to
42:31
Speaker 1: the forensics real quick, please do. I'm thinking about his body. Now.
42:37
Speaker 1: We know his body has been found inside the confounds
42:42
Speaker 1: of a tent. Okay, if you're chopping someone to death. Now,
42:49
Speaker 1: I don't know how big the tent. It might be
42:51
Speaker 1: a yurt for all I know those big things. Doubt,
42:55
Speaker 1: a doubt, a doubt, this is a yurt. Okay. However,
43:01
Speaker 1: if you've never been in a tent and you got
43:05
Speaker 1: too much space in there to be swinging anything around
43:08
Speaker 1: all right, matter of fact, you're very confined inside of
43:11
Speaker 1: a tent, whoever was a perpetrator on this, and they're
43:16
Speaker 1: you know, they're investigating this as a homicide, all right,
43:19
Speaker 1: So let's just go ahead and put that out there.
43:21
Speaker 1: We know that whoever would have perpetrated this would have
43:27
Speaker 1: had significant evidence transferred to their body because from what
43:34
Speaker 1: we understand, Dustin's injuries involved his skull and other points
43:42
Speaker 1: along his body. But he it's almost it almost sounds
43:45
Speaker 1: like a disfigurement kind of thing where you've got fractured bone.
43:51
Speaker 1: This this instrument that they're describing, you know, the chopping
43:56
Speaker 1: and injuries that's going to particularly when it comes to
44:02
Speaker 1: the skull, that's going to crush the skull, so you're
44:04
Speaker 1: going to have a tremendous amount of blood, there might
44:07
Speaker 1: be brain matter, that sort of thing. Here's my question.
44:10
Speaker 1: If there's no blood deposition on the surrounding walls, if
44:14
Speaker 1: you will, of the tent, where did this happen? We
44:19
Speaker 1: have to assume that it didn't happen in the tent.
44:22
Speaker 1: Maybe it did, but if I was a betting dude,
44:25
Speaker 1: I'd probably say no. So if they didn't see that
44:30
Speaker 1: inside the tent where their drag marks leading up to
44:34
Speaker 1: the tent, was there somebody watching him as he set up.
44:38
Speaker 1: Can did somebody follow him? You know, they saw his
44:41
Speaker 1: car being parked. Maybe I don't know what's going on
44:45
Speaker 1: up in that wooded area. Could it be a drug
44:50
Speaker 1: related event where you've got he stumbled onto the wrong
44:53
Speaker 1: group of folks that were up there trying to isolate themselves.
44:56
Speaker 1: And that has happened in the past where you just
44:59
Speaker 1: got some that's instantly walking through an area. It might
45:02
Speaker 1: be an area they're familiar with. Maybe they were engaged
45:05
Speaker 1: in nefarious activity and they did this. But when you
45:09
Speaker 1: begin to think about the brutality of this, we're not
45:14
Speaker 1: talking about taking, you know, a nine millimeters pistol and
45:18
Speaker 1: merely shooting somebody. No, we're talking about engagement. And this man,
45:23
Speaker 1: Dustin is not someone that is lacking strength. This as
45:31
Speaker 1: you said, he's a man's man. He works out, he's
45:33
Speaker 1: an outdoor kind of guy. Okay, he's building he's building houses.
45:37
Speaker 1: He's not just building houses, he's building house in Montana, dude.
45:41
Speaker 1: You know he's he's you know, he's where he's very robust,
45:46
Speaker 1: all right. So the fact that he's up there and
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Speaker 1: someone feels comfortable enough to attack this man, this is
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Speaker 1: a dangerous individual that's floating around. I don't know who
45:58
Speaker 1: they are, and this those two to an idea of
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Speaker 1: disfigurement day. I mean, they're they're trying to ruin him.
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Speaker 1: This is not just merely killing him. This is wrecking
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Speaker 1: him to this point. So I don't know. We're we're
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Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna hold out hope that they're going to
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Speaker 1: be able to track somebody down in Dustin's case and
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Speaker 1: maybe come back with with information that's going to help
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Speaker 1: solve this.
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Speaker 2: Uh.
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Speaker 1: The Sheriff's office up there by the way has put
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Speaker 1: out a couple of phone numbers and let me let
46:37
Speaker 1: me throw these out there to all of our friends.
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Speaker 1: The first one is is aery code four oh six
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Speaker 1: five eight two twenty one twenty one, and they're saying
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Speaker 1: for urgent tips, that number is four oh six five
46:58
Speaker 1: eight two. That's two to one zero zero. So any
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Speaker 1: information that you might have in regards to this man's death,
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Speaker 1: his brutal, brutal death, Hoping that we can get some
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Speaker 1: answers and try to understand what happened and get this
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Speaker 1: person in custody that did this. It's going to be
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Speaker 1: very important because I don't think anybody's safe up there
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Speaker 1: until this person's off the streets. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan
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Speaker 1: and this is Bodybacks