Latest / The Touch of a Mustang / Horses Interrupted His Cycle of Addiction with Ray Guidone | Episode 76

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Horses Interrupted His Cycle of Addiction with Ray Guidone | Episode 76 · The Touch of a Mustang

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We're basically asked like, you know, can you help me?
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You, can you heal me? Can you help me find my, my
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place? Can you show me the way?
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Because they already know it. They have been there, they've
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walked it, they've seen it. They do it every single day.
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We as human beings have lost that.
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As I start reconnecting with them, I start to feel those like
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that reconnection with myself, the reconnection with, with the
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earth, with, with, with life in general, because like it's like
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the simplicity of things. We complicate stuff so much,
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which we don't have to do. And horses are so simple.
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Horses aren't going to do that. They're like, oh, I'm
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struggling. Well, let me pick you up.
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Let me, let me make you like, maybe he'll we get to the next
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one. Let me make you make sure that
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you're feeling good or if you're better, if you're not, let me
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sit with you and make it make sure that you're like, you're
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getting better. Physical restrictions are
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usually because things are bound up in the body, whether it be
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through trauma or like the car accident, it's all held within
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the muscle. So we're releasing that muscle,
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releasing that area to tension. You're releasing that emotional
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boundless to that area as well. There are healers on this planet
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with the power to soften the suffering of mankind if they
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have remained in the recesses of the world, abused, discarded and
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labeled as trash. This is the touch of a Mustang.
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I am your host, Shalise Clough, and I'm here to tell the story
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of wild horses, Mustangs, and the humans who are discovering
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and sharing their gifts while working to protect their
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well-being and preserve their spirit so this divine power
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won't be lost. Join us on this quest with the
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Wild Mustang. I've been doing for a good
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massage therapy like for people for like almost 30 years, just
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doing massage or medical and rehabilitation massage, Qigong,
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Reiki, a ton of different different modalities to help
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people like heal and be stronger within themselves.
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I met Dave and Kathy at least 12 years ago or so.
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I'm up here in Connecticut and then have stage connected and
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been friends, you know, since they also been encouraging me to
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move down South for a very long time.
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Yes, which I'm not opposed to being Connecticut is not like,
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you know, without its challenges.
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And like I said, been doing massage for a long time.
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Was raised with horses since like since I was a child, like
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since I was born. There's a couple different
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stories where my uncle had found me in the middle of a horse
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field. They they, they, they're looking
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over for me and couldn't find me and they found me surrounded by
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like in a circle of horses just be sitting in middle of them
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when I was about 3 years old. And then shortly after that,
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riding on the back of a Mustang where my cousin was leading him
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and I had fallen off and she had noticed and she was, I guess she
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was like pulling the horses ready to get him to move.
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And the horse wouldn't do it because I was like right under
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him. And he's like, Nope, not doing
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it. My father ran out of the house,
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you know, because he saw me grab me and everything where I took
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from that whole thing was like, I was underneath this horse.
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It wasn't like he was not moving at all to make sure that was
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still safe as, you know, as a child.
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And so I had this thought this like really huge connection to
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Mustangs since then. Wow.
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But then as you know, as life goes on, you kind of like get
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away from things. And so we got into massage and
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did about 30 years of that with working with people and healing
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them and getting them to, you know, really need to be strong
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and, you know, and functional. My daughter got into writing at
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the Treasures Horse Farm in Chaplin.
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I was just there one day and the owner asked me to work on her
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horse Rose. I was having like this.
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She had had like this really traumatic situation where she
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was attacked by a large, large cat and in the mud and she like
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couldn't get out. And they so there's like this
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whole right side hip problems and she had no like good
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circulation in that leg to the point where like even down to
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her hoof, it was ice cold to the touch.
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So when I was there, she doing some massage.
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There was like, can you take a look at it?
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Like, well, I don't work on horses so, but I'll take a look.
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So did three sessions with her. I'm just doing like friction and
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stuff She had on full. This is like a long story
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shorts, but but she ended up getting full circulation back
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into that that whole part of her leg where she had two years of
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other people coming in looking at that the same area and had no
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progress with him at all. So she encouraged me to go to
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like start taking classes and stuff into doing, you know, work
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with horses, massage and stuff like doing massage and then
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going like working with like Chris Irwin and looking at Monty
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Roberts and all these other people that do these, you know,
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different modalities. And then just taking my own
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knowledge with stuff and going from there.
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So and then integrating that with working with, you know,
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people riding their horses, working with farriers, just kind
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of progressed from there with like the whole like human horse
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connection. So.
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Yeah. How was that with the first
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horse that you worked on? Were you just could you kind of
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fill the places you need to work on the same as you would with a
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human? What was that transfer like I
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guess from human to equine? Yeah, yeah, I mean kind of yeah.
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I was saying yes for that because it's it's intuition plus
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it's knowledge plus it's, you know, being able to palpate the
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area plus it's, you know, a lot of things that go into it.
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But when she told me that the things that happened and to the
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horse and how she's feeling, I literally put my hand on her
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like lower like, well, it's ice cold like this shouldn't feel
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like this. So I, you know, palpated back
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up, came back down like, hey, we just need to do like, you know,
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some like really good hard, like deep friction.
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And I know there's a lot of people, I just say you shouldn't
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really do a lot of deep work with horses, especially right
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off the bat, But with working with people too, if you're not
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getting into the area and then bringing to the point where they
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can heal and function, then you're not really doing them any
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any good. So I got in there like just
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really worked like cross, right? Like it's probably 3 sessions,
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about 20, like 15 to 20 minutes at each one.
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And by the third one, she had, you know, complete blood flow in
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there. Even the fair said about like a
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month after I'd done that, she was getting growth back into her
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enter her hoof. So I mean, I don't like I I
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can't say I didn't do anything wrong with that.
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So but you know, then I need I needed to get more knowledge and
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you just keep going, going, going to get more and more and
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more to do it. Like even though I have three
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years of knowledge with working with people that can integrate
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it in that with working with horses, you still want to know.
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More so now you are working on people and horses, is that
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right? Yes, yeah.
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What what does that experience been like kind of integrating
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the two and coming back into the horse world?
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But you've definitely had some pretty incredible experiences
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and when you were very young. Actually been incredible again
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because getting back into work with the horses, especially at
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the age of like some 53 now. So getting back working with
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them now and having a lot of traumas in addition, like
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struggles with that kind of stuff too.
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Getting more involved with them and having that connection with
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them, having their understanding, their
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forgiveness, their like their, their, their soulfulness is very
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healing to to me. Like we're working with them
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every like as much as I can, like every day, every day, like
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whatever time between I get, no matter what I have going on in
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my life. Like the struggle is the
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stresses, the, you know, the bullshit of life, right?
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You get like you get with them, it goes away.
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And then it's not saying like there's times where they're not
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pushing back at you because you're not dealing with your
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stuff. Because there are times
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definitely when I've worked with horses and I'm like, I'm not in
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like the right free of mine or I'm not like ready to deal with
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stuff or I'm like totally blocked off and they let me know
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because they're pushing back at me.
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They're not like I'm even though I'm like talking to him the
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right like with the right horse language to them.
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They're like, Nope, you're not doing the right thing.
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So they're telling me like, you know, you need to, to let go of
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this. You need to breathe.
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You need to connect because they do breathe.
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They do connect to the earth. They do have a connection to
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everything else around them. Like they feel the breeze in the
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air, they smell the, you know, the smells of the grass and the
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trees and the stuff that's going on.
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Everything they do is connected to to the world and to like not
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to our world, but to the natural world.
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And when we don't connect to that.
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And I feel like the same way of like dealing with like
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struggling with traumas and addictions.
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If I'm not connecting to the natural world, I'm struggling.
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So I appreciate everything that they give me all the time.
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Like you can, you know, see pictures of I'll be working with
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them that I'm just working in and people are just taking
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pictures and posting them or I'm like, I'm giving myself to them.
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I'm not asking them for anything.
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I'm asking them to help me. And I think that's where the,
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the whole, you know, you know, the horse mental health comes
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in. We're basically asking like, you
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know, can you help me? You, can you heal me?
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Can you help me find my, my place?
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Can you show me the way? Because they already know it.
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They have been there, they've walked it, they've seen it, they
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do it every single day. We as human beings have lost
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that and we don't necessarily do that anymore.
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So that human horse connection thing is like if you're not
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connecting to the horse and the horse and the human, then you're
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not, you're not really experiencing the whole healing
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process of what what you could be having, what you could be
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experiencing. Yeah, I I think that's very well
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said because we do talk a lot about the phrase like how horses
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can heal us and whatnot. And it's really not that they're
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necessarily doing anything except existing in their world
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and letting us come into that world and leave our world for a
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little bit. And you know, all of those
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things you've mentioned, I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, that one
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resonates. And these are all things that
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the horses have done for you just in your time working on
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them in a massage capacity. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
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Because I I hadn't worked with them for so long.
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It's been definitely over 40 years since they've been any
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kind of like real work with the horse.
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OK, you know, taking horses, I've riding them like, you know,
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gone, you know, to to horse farms, like where they're like
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they took and ride take on trail rides and stuff where it's just
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the horse is just like they're just trained to walk that, which
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is awful. Knowing now what I know, I think
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that's, it's awful experience, right?
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Because they're just, you know, they're, they're, they've lost
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who they are, like their horses don't have any idea of who they
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are anymore in those, in those situations, yeah.
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And a very artificial experience with horses, right compared to
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all that they can offer. Yeah, like their automaton, it's
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basically just like going through like, oh, I walk here, I
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walk there, I get fat, I go to bed and whatever, which is a
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shame. Kind of like a lot of us.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is a shame too, yeah.
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But yeah, so, so like, been that long between as I start
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reconnecting with them, that's when I start to feel those like
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that reconnection with myself, the reconnection with, with the
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earth with, with, with life in general.
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Because like, it's like the simplicity of things, because we
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complicate stuff so much, which we don't have to do.
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And horses are so simple. Like they're like, you know,
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they're like, they're complex in their own world, right?
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But they're, they're, you know, certain ways that they talk to
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each other and it's their statue of stuff, right?
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Take who's the leader, who's not, or whatever the pecking
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order of things. But they're also, you know,
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looking out for one another, like I'm telling you, like I'm
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telling you, I'm, I'm like I'm showing you I'm, I'm your I'm
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your boss. Like I'm the on the stallion,
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right? I'm the on the top and think
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that trickle down. I'm going to make sure you guys
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are OK. And then this person is to make
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sure that that person is OK and then and down, down, down, down
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all the way down. Like they're making sure they're
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looking out for each other all the time.
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As people, we don't do that necessarily necessarily we don't
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do that like we're like, well, I'm, I'm good if you're
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struggling, like I'll try to do something for you.
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Maybe probably not. Hugs and hugs and prayers,
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right? The text that you get all the
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time, like, oh, we're struggling.
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Hopes and prayers, the horses aren't going to do that.
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They're like, oh, I'm struggling.
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Well, let me pick you up. Let me let me make you like, let
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me help we get to the next one. Let me make you make sure that
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you're feeling good or that you're better.
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If you're not, let me sit with you and make it make sure that
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you're like you're getting better.
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So that's the difference between that.
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So I like to show people like if you're working and you want to
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have a good balanced life, you go and you help people, you make
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sure that they're OK no matter what your stature is.
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Like you could be, you know, a multi millionaire or you can
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make, you know, 16 bucks an hour, whatever.
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If you're making sure those people are still OK.
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Anybody needs to like struggling, you're making sure
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they're OK not seeing you have to put yourself off and you
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know, hurt like make sure self struggle or anything like that.
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But, you know, just making sure everybody's like in the right
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spot, like we're all looking out for each other.
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That's what horses said. They're all looking out for each
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other all the time. And I think we kind of lose
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that. And that's what I've seen.
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That's what's brought me back to a lot of my own self healing is
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knowing that I need to look out for for everybody else as well
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as looking out for myself. And you know, but I don't.
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I mean, I'm just rambling, but sorry.
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No, it is very interesting. And I think you're right with
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the like, the herd dynamics, whether that's a wild herd or
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just, you know, I'm just thinking about my four horses,
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how they each very clearly have a role and have an identity in
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that role. And you're right that they do
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look out for each other. They also, you know, get annoyed
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with each other. Oh yeah, you know, of course.
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When? Someone's bugging them or when
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they think someone's in their spot.
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But I think that you're right that as humans we add a lot of
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complexity and emotion and instead of simply accepting that
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we can all be part of the solution, all add good in the
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world. We spend a lot of time just
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doubting ourselves and where we should be and what we should be
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doing. And so I agree that there is a
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simplicity that the horses help us strip away and maybe move out
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of that complexity even for just a little bit.
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I don't know that it always lasts indefinitely, but gives us
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that reprieve, at least for a little bit.
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Yeah, well, I mean even thank you with horses is not
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indefinite, but you know there was looking like striving to be
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on the top. So but with the mental health
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and like going to like that. I know you want to talk to me
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also about the veterans and stuff too, right?
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And they're, yeah. And they're like the way that
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they're working with, with the horses and stuff too.
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It is that whole like team working that dynamic.
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I think the same thing. So when you're in the military
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or whatever, like it's you have that same dynamic as you do in
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the horse world, right? You have that whole hierarchy of
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things and everybody's looking out for one another.
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And but once you get out, it's not there anymore.
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Like it's, it's lost. Like you don't, yeah, you have
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nothing to help you out with anything.
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And I think with having veterans like especially struggling with
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anything or, or even if they're not struggling, but getting back
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into that world where there there is that hurricane, there
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is that dynamic of like you have like you're helping this person
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do this to do like your horses, whatever.
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I think it's a really important thing to do afterwards to get
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reactivated into even basic society.
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Yeah. And I have seen that with a lot
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of people that I've talked to who have started working with
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the horses where it did again, give them that sense of purpose
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and community that are a lot of things that, you know, they
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leave the military and it's gone.
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It's not a slow transition. It's not that they are given a
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path into life is just like, all right, boom, you're done.
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There you go. Go back to go back to the life
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that's been going on without you for the last however many years,
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and good luck. Right.
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Yeah, yeah. So I think that's, I think this,
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this program I think is a really good step for that.
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And I hope, like, I really hope a lot more like, you know, I
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hope a lot of veterans are start taking advantage of that.
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I'm not sure how many are taking advantage of it now.
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Yeah, I think certainly. Not as many as we could have
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for. Sure.
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Right. Yes, I think it goes more
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towards like, I think it's a lot of, you know, like autistic
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mental health like that is like that group is taking more of
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advantage of it, which is fantastic because I think they
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also need to have all that as well.
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And I think I've, I've seen a lot of people in that, that,
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that social group have a huge benefit, which is fantastic
20:19
because otherwise they're just, you know, I think they'd just be
20:22
neglected or not have any kind of like a structure for things
20:27
because they see that same thing.
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Like, you know, it's the, it's that same dynamic.
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Like you have that structure, like for, you know, to take care
20:35
of. We're going to be nurturing like
20:37
that. Nurturing, you know, and
20:39
embodying of things. But with the veterans, I thought
20:43
I'd like to see them take or be shown that they can take more of
20:49
initiative and more advantage of that.
20:52
Yeah, hopefully, hopefully that's what.
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We're yes, we're doing right. Right.
20:57
Yes, Yeah. When you started working with
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the horses, was that those changes and those insights that
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you begin to have, was that something that came right away
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or was it over time a process and kind of more of an unfolding
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step by step thing? It was definitely unfolding step
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by step thing. So first starting with Rose and
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then getting like in the starting, I took the courses and
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got through all that and start working with horses more and
21:26
more. Me working with them and like
21:29
and sharing space with them and knowing how to position myself.
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So they're like, and basically I speaks their language so I can
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position my body and stuff and my energy and things like that
21:44
with them to be more like beneficial for them, beneficial
21:50
for myself. I found myself like releasing
21:54
more or like you're feeling like more hard to say, like more free
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with it within myself, like the anxieties, the fears, the like
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the the the trials and stuff even like dealing with addiction
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like that was like, I wasn't thinking about it like working
22:14
them. I didn't think about it.
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I don't ever like, but you know, and and I wouldn't think about
22:20
it for like even days after. So which was kind of weird to me
22:26
at the same time, because I like, well, I didn't, I haven't
22:30
thought about that in like, you know, four or five days and then
22:35
he go and then I'd be back at the bar and then we do it again.
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And I had think about it again and I need to give out again.
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And I just, you know, I've done a lot of different things.
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I've got done boxing and I've done, you know, running and I've
22:47
done, you know, like, you know, working like a bunch of
22:49
different things to do, stuff to try to like with, to work
22:53
through addiction, stuff to preoccupy my mind.
22:57
But with working at horses, it was just, I don't know, there's
22:59
just something about it, but I didn't have to think about it.
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It was just just wasn't there anymore.
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It's just, but it's just like free, like free from it,
23:08
completely free from it, so. Yeah, that's incredible.
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I haven't. I don't know that I've heard
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stories like that before, but would you say the horses helped
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you to like, move past addiction over comment?
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Yeah, I I think they're helping me move past it.
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I'll never see like somebody who has any kind of addiction to
23:32
anything will like, because you can't be totally free of it.
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Like, there's plenty of people that are, but I wouldn't want to
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say somebody, oh, you're going to do this to be completely free
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from addiction, you know, don't worry about it.
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Yeah, right. Just work with horses every day.
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You'll be fine. Yeah.
23:52
I'd love to be able to say that. Yeah, absolutely.
23:55
For. The horses and help lots of
23:57
people. Absolutely.
23:59
But yeah, I mean, it's been, you know, there are, there are days
24:05
that are great days that are not these that like there's more of
24:08
a release of things, more days. There's some days are, you know,
24:14
you know, you go through some like you just didn't have that
24:19
connection at the time. So you know, this is it's the
24:23
same as anything. But you go, you go through it,
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you know, we go through it day by day.
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And you just, you know, like, well, tomorrow's another day.
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And then you just keep going. Yeah.
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And I think that's really the reality of life.
24:38
You know, it's like we think that we're going to reach some
24:40
pinnacle where we have it all figured out and life's going to
24:43
be smooth sailing from there on out.
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But the reality is that bumpy waters are going to come in
24:48
whatever form, you know, might be present in your life.
24:51
And for me, the horses are a place where it's like, oh, you
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can go get a little reprieve, reset, kind of start again, get
25:00
back on track, that type of thing.
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Yeah, I gave even even if the horses are if you want, they
25:05
want because I mean, there wasn't a day last week I get up
25:10
to, you know, tacked up everything, get off the ride.
25:13
And he was like, Nope, I don't want to ride.
25:17
And I say go, come on, let's go. Like, Nope, Mike.
25:20
All right, guess we're not doing this because either I wasn't in
25:25
the right spot for it or he was just like, I'm not feeling it.
25:29
But I think it was more me not being the right friend of mind
25:34
or like right in there, like energetically in the right spot.
25:37
And he was like, well, we could do this, but you're a jerk.
25:41
So I don't want to be fine with you right now, which is OK,
25:46
which is fine. You know, that's you know that
25:48
I'd rather because horses are 100% honest all the time.
25:52
Like they'll never they oh, say courses will never intentionally
25:56
hurt you. They hurt you or they when
26:00
you're not listening to them, because if you're not listening,
26:04
like if you're not, you know, because not not just asking, but
26:09
listening to what I mean, pushy about it, because there's been
26:13
definitely times when that's happened where I think like what
26:18
needs to do this? And they're like, no, I don't
26:20
want like what needs you to do this?
26:21
Like we're not going to do it. And like, I'll like put my
26:25
shoulder out or something like that.
26:28
I know there's this one time I was like worked on a bunch of
26:31
like a bunch of horses out in the in the field and was it was
26:36
done like working this once in a this take patter on the butt,
26:41
like to send her down to the to the the barn and I turned my
26:46
back to her and got kicked. I like, yeah, I was like, that
26:51
was my fault because it was, it was completely my fault.
26:54
Wasn't paying attention. I knew I should have done it and
26:57
I was just tired and wasn't paying attention.
27:00
It was just like, she's like, well, you're not paying
27:02
attention. So here's, here's your smack in
27:05
the butt. Yeah.
27:07
So, yeah, that's so interesting because it's really easy and I
27:10
think a strategy that a lot of us used to deflect blame and
27:15
especially with horses, you know, that was the horses fault.
27:18
They shouldn't have done that. They should know better.
27:21
Yeah, whatever that might be. But if we can turn that
27:24
narrative around and look at ourselves, certainly a lesson
27:28
for life. What role did I have and how
27:31
that experience played out? That provides us with insights
27:35
so we can move forward in a better way.
27:37
Yeah, absolutely. Because like most of the time
27:40
when like especially like working with riders and stuff is
27:44
they're like, oh, my horse isn't listening.
27:46
My horse isn't doing this. My book.
27:47
It's not the horse that's not listening, it's you that's not
27:51
listening. Isn't most of the time, like 90%
27:55
of the time is not the horse, it's the rider.
27:58
Because in, in life is the same thing.
28:02
It's not life that's not listening to you.
28:05
It's you're not listening to life.
28:07
So this is it's the same kind of thing, so.
28:11
Yeah, absolutely. Talk a little bit about, so you
28:16
do massage therapy where like with the body physical tension,
28:22
what role have you seen that that plays with like emotional
28:27
struggles and things in that area?
28:29
Have you seen a connection there?
28:31
With people or horses, or myself or.
28:34
Yeah, both any. OK.
28:38
Yeah. So physical restrictions are
28:42
usually because things are bound up in the body, whether it be
28:46
through trauma or like the car accident for a person or if a
28:50
horse falls or gets stuck in mud.
28:52
Or if you have any kind of emotional trauma, say, like
28:55
you're, you know, parents were abused or whatever, or you had
28:58
some kind of other trauma in your life.
29:01
It's all held within the muscle. So we're releasing that muscle,
29:05
releasing that area, the tension, you're releasing that
29:09
emotional boundless to that area as well.
29:13
So when you release that for a person, they may cry, may laugh,
29:19
they start swearing or be like violent, like helper stuffing,
29:24
something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
29:27
I mean, but in also much respect, you know, the muscle
29:31
shivers and then let's go with a horse, it's the same thing.
29:37
But with a horse, you're standing out there, They're
29:40
always standing. Like there's very seldom a time
29:43
you're working up horse when they're laying down.
29:45
And if they're laying down doing, you better be sure you
29:49
know what you're doing because if they decide to get up either
29:52
like one of you is getting hurt if you're not paying attention.
29:56
So when they're standing up so like these in their shoulder, at
30:01
least seeing like any part of like their bodies, like their
30:06
back hip, like working down into like, you know, into their like
30:10
lower back going down like through even like the the
30:17
midline, like Withers all that. Like all those places they can
30:20
have trauma from saddles or like, or, you know, not having
30:25
to take the girth pull in the right spot or like being kicked
30:29
too much with, with with spurs or taking having a really muddy
30:36
area that they're running around in or they're on the field and
30:40
they get into a little bit of a tiff with another horse.
30:43
Like all these things, you know, it can cause muscle trauma in
30:47
certain areas. So when you're releasing that,
30:49
that stuff's going to come back out again.
30:52
And you kind of got to really pay attention to the way the
30:56
horse is moving. And I don't, I, I really, really
31:02
prefer not to work with horses that are tied up because once
31:06
they're tied, I can't move them. I can't see what's going on with
31:10
them. I think that and if they're FATA
31:13
spot and they're tied up and they rear off or they do
31:15
something one of us is getting put into, like I'm getting put
31:18
into a wall or they're going to hurt themselves.
31:21
And so I'd rather not be put into a wall.
31:23
I'd be like if I'm in the field, on out, in the field, if they
31:29
push up, back up, I'm just falling into the grass and I'm
31:32
fine. Much rather have that happen to
31:36
me than be put into a wall. But when that emotional release
31:41
comes up, you have to follow it. Like that's what I do.
31:45
So like if I'm working and there's some videos that I have
31:50
on my site too where it shows I'm working and moving with the
31:54
horse. I'm always moving and working
31:57
with the horse, so I might have like my elbow in in a certain
32:02
area or might have like reaching underneath the leg and holding
32:04
leg tight to me and having them move and they put my shoulder
32:08
into it or like doing stretches with them.
32:11
That's all releasing those areas of, of trauma or resistance or
32:19
or whatever, whatever it may be to get them to function better.
32:24
You can do a lot of horse massage and you can do like the
32:28
whole like, you know, you're going through every Moss when
32:30
you draw like the light strokes and you're doing the whole thing
32:33
and working in the human massage world, you can do that too for a
32:39
massage. Like you can go get your, you
32:41
know, he said like your fluffy massage, right?
32:46
Like we're like, oh, I feel, oh, I'm so nice and relaxed now.
32:50
But if you come in and you tell you, if you came and said, oh,
32:53
well, my shoulders hurting me and my low back and I have like
32:57
this hip problem over here. I really like to have this
33:00
worked on. And I'm just giving you like a
33:01
fluffy massage. You like, oh, I think that's
33:05
great. But what the hell did you do for
33:08
me, right? So same with the horse.
33:11
Like if I'm going through, I'm just doing like the going
33:13
through like the regular, you know, efflerage massage for a
33:17
horse, they might feel relaxed, but they have they've had no
33:21
real release from trauma. And what I do is I release the
33:26
horse from like my point all the time is to release the horse
33:29
from trauma. They get them so they're
33:31
functioning. They get them so they're like,
33:33
so they're not in pain anymore. That's my main purpose in in
33:38
working with them and and working with people too.
33:40
Like for the writers working with farriers who are like,
33:44
you're in like terrible body positions all day.
33:47
Yeah. So like that's my purpose with
33:50
with everything that I do for a massage and and like even doing
33:54
energy work or anything like that, I guess all getting for
33:58
the so that so who's everybody, human or horse is functioning
34:05
the in in their best capacity all of the time.
34:09
Have you seen when they experienced that release, either
34:12
horses or human? Does that also change their
34:15
mental state from what you can tell?
34:17
Oh, absolutely. Because I mean, if you're, if
34:20
you're bound up, like if, if you're like say, you know, I'm
34:25
sure you've had injuries before and like, yeah.
34:28
So like if you have, you know, like what, what was some like
34:33
injury you've had lately? I think I messed up my meniscus
34:38
in my knee playing volleyball. All right, all right, so so that
34:41
kind of kind of messed you up a little bit mentally too, right,
34:43
because you could go out and play volleyball.
34:45
You can't do a lot of different things.
34:46
You can't ride your bike, you can't go on the treadmill, You
34:49
can't like it really limits the amount of stuff you can do.
34:52
But to have that released, to have that taken care of, like
34:57
God forbid the surgery stuff. But you can also like, you know,
35:00
get that stuff released manually and healed through like through
35:04
herbs and stuff. So like I would say you and
35:07
Confrey and stuff like that to to really like heal up those
35:10
tendons and ligaments, which is a whole probably another
35:14
discussion, but but that but mentally you're like, she's I
35:21
can't do this anymore. What what like, ah, so
35:23
frustrated, right. So they can't do this anymore.
35:27
Subconsciously maybe being afraid of getting hurt again.
35:29
Yeah, of course, and but that's the same way the horse is doing.
35:34
Oh, like this is like, you know, my I sty for us, right?
35:38
So why can't I'm like not going to walk the right way now I can
35:42
now my cantor's wrong like now all like my hips are moving
35:46
wrong. My pelvis is not really moving
35:49
the weight. Like I don't have the swagger,
35:51
right. I always call like the horses
35:52
have this sort of swagger to them.
35:54
And when they're injured, they don't they work.
35:58
They're like staunch. Locked up.
36:00
Yeah, that's not like they should have this, you know,
36:03
swagger like that 1970, you know swagger, right?
36:08
Yeah, Yeah. So they should.
36:10
But with horses in pain, it's going to have that, that mental
36:15
state where it's just me frustrated and his opinion is,
36:19
and it's going to act out and it's going to start biting.
36:21
It's certain, you know, kicking out.
36:23
It's going to start doing all this sort of stuff that you
36:25
don't want it to do. And it's not that it's the
36:28
horse's fault. It's that we're not listening to
36:33
what the horse is telling us now.
36:35
Because when your, your meniscus was hurt, you went and told your
36:39
doctor, oh, I think my knee hurts.
36:41
What what's going on? And they told you what's
36:44
happening, you know, a horses happens, having something
36:48
happening, it can't say, hey, my meniscus or it's, you know, what
36:54
can you do for me? It's going to act out.
36:57
And then you have to figure out what's going out that you have
36:59
to literally like listen to them, watch their language,
37:03
listen. And I say like, listen because
37:08
it's just an easier thing to say.
37:09
But you have to like watch all their mannerisms, look at what
37:13
they're doing, everything that they're doing, like talking to
37:15
the other horses, talking to you when you're doing things like
37:20
that's what I mean by listening. It's not just like you're not
37:23
because you're not telling anything.
37:24
You have to visually and energetically pay attention to
37:29
what the horse is doing. Otherwise you're not going to
37:32
figure that out. And, and I find that in the same
37:36
way as people who are like not able to express themselves
37:42
verbally or mentally, like in, in the human world too, like
37:46
working with the autistic kids or, you know, or people who have
37:50
or, or have Down syndrome or like veterans who are like
37:57
completely close off to any kind of talk, whatever.
38:01
It's not that you have to listen to their words.
38:03
Watch what they're doing, especially the veterans.
38:08
Watch what they're doing and it will tell you what they need.
38:12
Same as the horses. If you watch what they're doing,
38:15
they'll tell you what they need. And that's, I think what a lot
38:19
of people in our in our field, not to say that they don't do
38:26
it, but I think that we need to be more aware of that, of
38:29
looking at what the mannerisms are of not just the people that
38:34
we're working with, but also like in the horses that were,
38:36
but in both them as a whole. Because if you're working with a
38:41
horse and a person at the same time, like if I'm working with
38:44
like a veteran in a, in a like, I'll say a Mustang that's been,
38:49
you know, pulled in. And then is it going through
38:52
training and do also stuff. And they're both kind of working
38:55
as like together, right? But they're both working in that
38:59
same genre, like in the same area together or working
39:02
together. If you're not paying attention
39:05
or if they're not paying attention to what each other are
39:07
doing, then there could be like a lot of miscommunication going
39:12
on. So, and you, that's something
39:16
like you really got to pay attention like, because it could
39:19
be like, you know, the twitch of an ear or like the turn of a
39:22
head for a horse. Like it's like, or like, you
39:25
know, a flutter in the in the back end.
39:27
There's all these little things, the switch of a tail, all these
39:32
little things tell you what they're feeling.
39:35
And as soon as a person like it could be like, you know, the
39:38
blinking out of their eyes, like how they like move their head
39:44
when you're talking about a certain thing, how they hold
39:47
their hands, how they cross their legs when you're talking
39:51
them, where their eyes go, like all these little things tell you
39:54
what's going on. And if we're not paying
39:57
attention that stuff, we're not doing them justice with with
40:00
with what we want to do in in this.
40:03
In this industry, I think we're not in this industry like what
40:06
we're doing like with the mental health and, and the horses and
40:09
stuff. I think it's like really, really
40:11
need to start paying attention to like the little subtleties
40:14
of, of everything in life in, in, in, in people's mannerisms
40:18
anyway, so. Yeah.
40:20
And I think we've lost a lot of that to where we do just rely on
40:23
people's words and what they say.
40:25
And we like to think that gives us all the information we need,
40:28
but it is really quite limited, even though theoretically I
40:32
could tell you exactly what I needed to communicate with you,
40:36
but that may not always be the case, right?
40:38
And I think it's so interesting, just the interplay between like
40:43
the mental, emotional, physical, and even talking about horses,
40:49
how that can encompass all of that.
40:53
Because a lot of times when someone has an issue, a lot of
40:56
times we'll put it in a little compartment and, and that's
41:00
where you go to fix it. And it, it's seems like, and
41:04
maybe you've had experience with this, that a lot of times it is
41:07
something that hits all those different areas that impacts
41:12
those different areas even on to like, you know, social life and,
41:18
and friends and family. Very true.
41:20
Like, yeah. So like all, all the aspects of
41:22
everything, you know, like I think social media is one of the
41:27
biggest downfalls of our society now because big everybody thinks
41:31
that our lives always have to be a certain way.
41:33
It's all perfect and everything is like that he does and or
41:38
Caesar, like, you know, super perfect.
41:39
You're like super terrible, right.
41:42
Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I don't, I
41:46
don't find social media in itself because it can be used
41:53
really well. Like like, yeah, it's like we're
41:55
doing that. It's like very, very, very good,
41:57
right. So we're for education and stuff
41:59
like that. But when it's used to make
42:04
people feel awful, yeah. Or even because.
42:07
You are reality. Yeah, absolutely.
42:09
Because like we can be talking now.
42:11
Like, Oh, well, you know, I looked on so and so's page the
42:15
other day and they had, you know, all the stuff going on,
42:19
but in reality they had nothing. What has motivated you to be
42:25
part of this Horses for Mental Health campaign and to work
42:28
towards spreading the awareness of this idea that horses can
42:32
help us in our mental lives? Like, it's like a huge amount of
42:35
things struggling with about the health, like, well, say mental
42:40
health and addiction myself. Yeah, that was a huge part of
42:45
it. And then being friends with, you
42:50
know, Dave and Kathy, that that didn't hurt.
42:54
And then getting involved with horses again and seeing the
43:00
impact that they have had on my life with what I'm like, like,
43:05
well, I started with alcohol first of all.
43:08
And that took a like a toll on myself and family and everything
43:13
is like it like it would. But then getting involved with
43:18
the horses like I didn't have, I guess it was saying I didn't
43:21
have any her need for that to kind of distraction because
43:27
that's all it is, right? Addiction is just a distraction
43:30
from reality. Things you don't want to deal
43:33
with, things that you want to, you know, just like that.
43:36
A. Way to escape.
43:37
Yeah, like, oh, I had a tough day.
43:39
I'm going to have a glass of wine, right?
43:42
But but if it's an everyday thing, I think it was an every
43:45
time you have a hard day, you're doing that, then you know, you
43:47
need to really kind of, in my opinion, you kind of need to
43:51
look at that. Not that anybody who does that
43:52
is has addiction problems or whatever like that, but you
43:55
might want to look at that. But anyway, working with horses
44:01
when I was in recovery, like as I am in recovery for that, I
44:08
don't like I said, I don't have a want or a need or a desire for
44:15
any of it. Like there's times when, yes, I
44:18
have a bad day and I'm like, I'm frustrated, I'm angry.
44:20
I'm like, you know, you know, can't deal with stuff.
44:23
Like everybody has emotions. From.
44:26
Life, right, right. But when I'm with the horses,
44:31
when I'm in like the, you know, in the pack, you're out in the
44:36
in the in the pastures with them.
44:38
I don't have to be necessarily having hands on the horses when
44:43
I'm there. You can just be like, you know,
44:45
sitting there in that area or standing there and just like
44:49
watching them and just in doing whatever it just this calmness
44:55
kind of just comes over you or for myself anyway, for like, you
45:02
know what, life's not that hard. Life's not that frustrating.
45:09
It's really kind of simple. And I no longer feel like I need
45:15
to have that escape from like, the stresses of things because
45:20
the stresses are always going to be there, you know, but you
45:24
don't have to really pay attention to them.
45:26
If we pay attention to stress, to the stresses, that's when we
45:29
have our biggest, I think our biggest downfalls for things.
45:33
It's like we're paying attention to stress all the time.
45:35
Yeah, Just, hey, I just basically hanging out with them
45:39
is the. Yeah.
45:40
The biggest thing for me with that.
45:42
You kind of mentioned a lot of reason we get into addiction and
45:46
I think that there's all kinds and probably most of.
45:48
US probably have. Some aspects, elements of some
45:52
kind, and a lot of times, like we talked about, that's almost
45:56
an escape from your life, a moment to just check out the
46:00
things that are hard and difficult.
46:02
Do you feel like with the horses, they gave you almost
46:05
that same kind of escape, except in a healthy way where you're
46:09
not, You know, maybe damage isn't following in the wake.
46:13
Well, yeah, it's good because you can have like you're, you're
46:17
like healthy addictions, right? Which would be like going off
46:20
the horses and or like, or like sick surfing or, you know, doing
46:26
something that's not destructive to your body, right?
46:31
Or you can do stuff that is destructive to your body, like,
46:34
you know, excessive drinking or doing drugs or, you know, or,
46:40
you know, physically abusing yourself, like whatever, like
46:43
whatever those things are. There's, there's, there's
46:47
definitely 2 aspects of the, you know, of, of that.
46:50
There are healthy things to do for ourselves and they're
46:53
unhealthy things to do for ourselves.
46:54
And I think working with horses and stuff, I think that's a
47:00
really healthy thing to do because you're not being
47:03
destructive to yourself, you're not being destructive to anybody
47:07
else or anything else. And if you are going out working
47:10
with horses and you're being abusive and destructive them,
47:14
you might want to look into something else or like or find
47:18
somebody who can actually help you in that capacity.
47:21
Because then if you're doing that, you then, you know, you
47:22
have more that needs to be dealt with.
47:26
Then you find your mental health, you know, person to, to
47:30
help you through that, which I think is also great to be that
47:34
this, this program is there too. Because it's not just about like
47:38
going out, like hanging out with horses.
47:40
It's about dealing with your, your traumas and your
47:43
addictions. And you're like, you know, and
47:46
you're like, basically like you're dealing with your shit
47:50
because we all have it. We all have like a big pile of
47:54
crap in front of us that we never deal with.
47:57
And I think this is a great way to deal with that crap.
48:01
Yeah. And I think the horses can
48:03
really help us gain those insights to the things that we
48:05
need to address. Absolutely.
48:08
I could do a mocha stall. Right.
48:10
Yeah, I know. One of the best places for some
48:12
life insights. That's for.
48:13
Fair I was, actually. Just thinking that today, like
48:17
when life gets a little crazy, maybe I just need to go clean
48:19
the horse crap. Right, right.
48:21
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
48:24
To wrap up, tell everybody where they can find you what services
48:29
you might offer that people can utilize.
48:32
So intuitive Wellness on Facebook, so in Facebook and
48:40
Instagram, I think I shared the links with you to, to be able to
48:45
post up afterwards. Yeah, yeah.
48:48
So and then, yeah, I really work with, you know, everybody in,
48:55
in, in, in, in every capacity. So if you need, you know, like
49:01
energetic healing to physical healing to, you know, you want
49:06
to get involved to work with, you know, with horses or like
49:09
either with learning how to do massage with them or how to do
49:14
like, you know, just like bonding with them to get
49:18
yourself there. Like, yeah, you can.
49:20
I do a lot of different things. It's hard to say exactly, like
49:24
pinpoint exactly what I do with stuff, but I am there for
49:28
anybody who needs what they need.
49:30
Oh, you do, which I don't think we touched on.
49:33
You do also do a couple of other methods, modalities.
49:38
Do you want to talk about those at all?
49:41
Oh, like the Qigong and the and so so Qigong is the.
49:46
Pronounce them all wrong. So I was just going.
49:48
To let you change. That's OK.
49:50
So, so Qigong is the is a method of gathering energy for healing
49:57
for yourself and for any, anything or anybody that you
49:59
need to bring it to. We'll see.
50:03
And for, for your own inner healing.
50:08
And I think it's a really good way to start with things,
50:10
especially when you're looking to work with animals who have a
50:14
really high energy output, like horses.
50:18
And then I also like it's called Qigong or Qigong.
50:22
And then Wuji Wuji's the same method, but with movement.
50:28
So you'd actually literally walk through the pasture doing these,
50:34
you know, energetic cultivation movements to, to just, and
50:40
you'll be amazed, like the horses will just come to you
50:43
because they just want to, they want to be around that, which is
50:47
really cool thing to experience. And then, yeah, so the, and then
50:51
the ISO especially, it's just, you know, it's finding like
50:54
what, what parts of the body are moving correctly for you and
51:00
then getting to, to move correctly.
51:03
Same thing I do with the horses. I got to find what move what
51:06
muscles like our joints aren't moving correctly and then do
51:09
stretching for those specific joints to get them to move
51:12
correctly so that they have a better and better and high
51:15
quality function in their bodies.
51:18
It's interesting, I see so many correlations just between like
51:22
the mental and the physical, how you know, releasing your body
51:25
and kind of getting out of that stuck state is so beneficial.
51:29
And if not, it will pile up and add up and make things more
51:32
difficult. And the same thing with just our
51:34
emotional mental lives. How if we can kind of release
51:38
that find, you know, do those mental stretches and healing
51:43
and, and be aware of that, it's a domino effect and certainly
51:47
goes also into our relationship with our horses that they, they
51:52
can feel our energy, they can feel where we're at.
51:54
And so the more that we can do to help ourselves, certainly the
51:58
better those relationships are going to be as well.
52:01
Absolutely, yeah. Because if your hips, if your
52:03
hips aren't moving well while you're riding you through your
52:05
horses, so and then nothing's really, you know, working well
52:10
together. Like it's simplistic, you know,
52:13
explanation for that. So, you know, everything needs
52:16
to move together and that's everything in life.
52:20
Everything is everything needs to move together.
52:22
That's a great message to end with and just at that movement
52:27
and that release and addressing those things where we're stuck
52:31
are healing and and will help us to move forward.
52:36
And so thank you so much for being here for sharing your
52:39
stories, especially your personal stories and how horses
52:42
have helped you. I do think those are some of the
52:44
most impactful because, you know, we can look at statistics
52:49
and the different things we're seeing, and maybe we don't even
52:54
have statistics because there's certainly plenty of research
52:57
left to be done. But to hear the stories about
52:58
how horses are legitimately changing and helping people in
53:02
their lives, I think it's very powerful because it's something
53:05
you and I have both experienced and, you know, important areas
53:10
of our life. And so thank you for sharing
53:12
that, for the work you do for the horses and humans.
53:14
And sounds like you're doing great work.
53:17
I feel like after this, I'm like, oh, I feel like I need a
53:19
massage. My shoulders are so tense.
53:24
But yeah, thank you for being here.
53:25
And. For willing to come.
53:27
On and talk about it all. Thank you for joining us and
53:30
learning about horses that heal and the humans who help them.
53:33
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