Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / The Truth About Selling an International Financial Planning Business | Dan Dickinson

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The Truth About Selling an International Financial Planning Business | Dan Dickinson · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: What's it like to go on an emotional roller coaster of selling an international financial planning business?
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Sam Brux and I'm back in Dubai, and we're here with Titan Wealth at Titan Wealth International to see what it's like to be an international financial planning business in this fast growing wealth management company.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Today's guest is Dan Dickinson, CEO of Titan Wealth International.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Dan has lived every stage of the financial planning journey.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: He's built and scaled businesses in international financial planning, and he's been through acquisitions himself.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: This is a conversation about leadership, people, pressure, and culture.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: But it's also about what really happens during an acquisition.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: The external noise, the internal responsibility, and the duty of care you have to your people when big change happens.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Dan now works closely with other founders in the international space to help them exit in the right way for both their employees and of course themselves.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we talk very honestly about what the process looks like when it's done properly.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: We also dig into what one Titan really means and how this is shaping more of a professional, joined-up future for the international business.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, Dan, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast here in Dubai within a fantastic view of the marina behind you.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's really nice to be back, especially in January.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's nice and cool.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Just telling you I was out last night in my shorts and t-shirt.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Bit of an error, got a bit cold.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't realise just how cold it got in January.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: I forgot about that.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: How are you today?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, great, thank you very much.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh make the most of the cold weather because it uh it never lasts long enough, and before you know it, it'll be July and August, and you won't think Dubai will ever be cold again.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, but yeah, it's a great time of year.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it's nice to have you back as well.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, you've spent a lot of time in Dubai, haven't you?
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: How long have you been here for?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh 18 years now.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm 18 years into a one-year trip.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, it's it's home.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so hoping at some point uh they start to give out passports and uh never I never have to leave.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: 18 years into a one-way trip.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: So did you think I'm just gonna come out here, see what it's like, and leave it at that?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: But what was your what was your reason for coming to Dubai and how did you get into international financial advice?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean it's a long answer.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Did I think I'd come for a year?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, I thought I'd come for a year.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: You think 18 years ago, Dubai wasn't what it is today, you know.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh when I said I was moving here, I was actually offered a job, it was either Barcelona, Hong Kong, uh, or Dubai.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I chose Dubai.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that was back when people thought Dubai was a country.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody could point to it on a map.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and over that time, um, I mean it looks like a brilliant decision now that all of us made when we moved here then, but the world and his wife wants wants to come in now, you know.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: The the leadership here have done an incredible job of putting Dubai on the map, um, and and that's made it the city that it that it now is, but it it wasn't this city and it wasn't this industry 18 years ago, that's for sure.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I've been in the space of recruitment for nearly 18 years.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: I had my recruitment business, and we work with firms all across the world, and I always kind of dipped into the international space, you know, and I honestly sometimes it never really had a great great reputation, you know.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think within the industry within the UK, for example, they used to look at it and think it was a bit Mickey Mouse, but so much has changed over the years.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've spent some time out here, but also so much is changing for clients, they're becoming so internationally mobile now.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: So being able to receive top quality financial planning, wealth management, wherever they are in the world, in that borderless style of advice is just so super important.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: And in your 18-year period, look, so much has gone on, especially within the last year.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: So let's just focus on the right here right now.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: What's your job title?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: What are you doing in what organization are you part of?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, right here right now.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm the CEO of uh the international uh part of Titan's business.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um that was that was why we were acquired uh alongside another business in the Channel Islands uh to form the international arm of what they were building in the UK.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um so within that role, uh you know it the the role I I guess we'll get on to that.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um the the the three little letters after my name, they're they're pretty meaningless, to be honest with you.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: It just happens to be my role in this organisation.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Which is um, well, CEO.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um probably should have pointed that out.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's uh it I'm the CEO of the business.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: My role is the leadership of the business, my role is to present the business, promote the business, look after the people within the business to the best of my ability.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and that's that's my day-to-day, really.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: I love it, fantastic.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, how long have you been doing that for now?
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, obviously I was the CEO of of AHR, uh, well Arlo, then AHR previously, um, and then we were acquired by Titan in the summer of 24.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I've been in that role uh ever since.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean the first business in the international space to be acquired by a PE back business as well, especially somebody as fast growing as Titan Wealth.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: When that when that let's just go back first before we get stuck into that, because I just want to give people a bit of context about you and your journey as well, um, and and leading up to this, because you didn't set out that year to sell your business, did you?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we never um I don't think we ever set out to to sell.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I'm really lucky in life that I've got a lot of people that that help me with a lot of things, a lot of mentors, uh not a lot of mentors, but a lot of a lot of great friends that that help me guide me, give me advice where it's needed.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um my view was that if you build a business that's designed to last forever, it'll be worth more than a business that's designed to make money.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that was what we set out to do.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um we spoke.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: The only other uh interview, I guess, I've ever done, with the exception of being on the radio a few times in a different role, um, was for the national, which I look back at now and cringe because I think I very proudly stated that we were going to list the business in five years, um, which uh has caused some embarrassment.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't look quite so foolish now, but it caused some embarrassment and a few laughs.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: But the reason I said that was because the goal it was about creating the ability to give everybody in this business value.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time I was so inexperienced that it was like, oh well, we're gonna have to list, we're gonna have to list the business.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's the only way we can create shareholdings for everybody.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I stupidly said it in the the national media and instantly regretted it.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: But as I say, it's uh it's not panned out too too badly now.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: But sometimes you've got to say these things, put it out there, it's a little bit like manifestation, isn't it?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: You sort of speak something into reality, and you're not far off of it right now.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: I love what you said there about wanting to create something for everybody that was part of your business so they become a part of it and a shareholder within it.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: Why you know it's kind of against the grain of a lot of people who run businesses in the international space, it can be usually quite hyper-competitive, it can often become across a little bit selfish.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: Why was that so important to you that others around you shared in a success of your business?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, look, back we like we said at the start, like that you know, this industry's changed dramatically in the 18 years that I've been in it.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: And if I think back to 18 years ago, there was one or two firms, and the principals of those firms were the owners, you know, they took all the value, they didn't share it.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: If you dared ask to share in that success or that value, you know, that they were very short conversations.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but also it was pretty clear the way that like the industry was going.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and ultimately the guys out there they've built this.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the the I'm the one that gets I'm on podcasts or requested to be on podcasts.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um I get put on stage, people keep handing me microphones and asking my opinion on things.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, I'm the lucky one that that gets put in that position, but I didn't put myself there, they put me there.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, all I did was put the right people in the room, and they've built this.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I'm always really conscious of making sure that the credit goes where the credit should, and I just try to take as much of the stress and the grief of the day-to-day away from them.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love that.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, just to give again some context to our listeners in that 18-year period, let's just how did you start and how did AHR come about?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because I expect a lot of people understand who AHR as well as Titan Wealth.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: So let's just go back to the beginning.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how did you get into the international space?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: What were you doing?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: And what were those early years?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: And what you know, how did they sort of how did they um uh formulate who you are today?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um wow, this will have to be a short version, it will be here for hours.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um look, so I mean I'm I'm from the middle of England, uh, not a lot happens.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: It became pretty apparent that I've always been ambitious.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't think that I'd have achieved what I've achieved here if I'd stayed there.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I look at some of my best friends now.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: One of my best friends he he he did something similar last year with his with his media business.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: There's no way that I'd have achieved what he's achieved if I was back in the UK.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it was very clear to me that that I needed to leave.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know I'd end up in Dubai, um, but I I came to Dubai.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I ended up working for what at the time was the largest uh international IFA in the world.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh those in the industry will know exactly who I'm talking about.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I I enjoyed it, you know.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: I I turned up, I was given a phone, and I was given a list of people to call.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: There was no real uh induction back then, it it was sink or swim.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but what I can say is out of that organization, if you look at a lot of the businesses or you look at the people that are leading businesses, they generally started there as a hell of a grounding.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, my first boss actually messaged me uh not long ago, you know, really lovely message that finished with sort of, you know, I'm you know proud of what you've done, like his first morning meeting.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'll never forget that for the rest of my days.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was kind of wow, like this is what's possible.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: And there was a group of very what I would call normal people doing you know quite remarkable things.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: And and was it uh the environment we have today?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Was the industry what it is today?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but while some people shy away from their beginnings and almost some people pretend or miss it out of their journey on LinkedIn or whatever, I would never do that.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've some of the best people that that I know I met then.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, I learned a lot, a lot of how not to do it, but I learnt a lot of good things that I still draw on today.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: So um so yeah, came out there.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: I worked for a chap.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he then decided to leave.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: He joined the only other business in town.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: I went with him, he then uh departed and went to Australia.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: I became an advisor, um, and yeah, it was uh it was enjoyable.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I worked with my best friends, uh, we had a really nice time.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we were doing you know good things for clients, met some great clients, clients that remain clients to this day.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then yeah, in in 2011, uh, without going too deeply into it, out of nowhere sort of lost my mum, and I thought, right, I need to do something to make these five, six years I've not been in the UK.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: They need to mean something.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I came up with this wacky idea of fair, open, honest financial advice.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm gonna get a license, I'm gonna go and do it.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there'd been a moratorium on them for eight years uh through the wonder that is golf.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'd made a relatively influential friend.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Went to him with the idea and said, Look, uh, you know, this is what I'd like to do, I'd like to create a business, I think there's a there's a real market here to look after expatriates in a better way, but I need a license.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: And and he was, you know, come to me with a business plan, come to me with a pretty serious amount of money, um, and I can get you the licence.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, that was that was it really.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh fair place, yeah.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that individual then helped you set up that business, which was at the time Arlo.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I'd moved, I was here, um, I'd just got married, I'd just had uh my first child, my little boy, Arlo, although he's not so little anymore.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and for some ridiculous reason, you know, marriage, I'd moved out of living with my friends in the marina into a villa in Arabian ranches, um, had a child that I didn't know how to keep alive.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: I came up with a wonderful idea of setting up a business that frankly I didn't really know how to run, um, all at the same time.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I do look back at that and I think, you know, how have any of these people survived?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but but yeah, we've survived.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: So that was it.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: So originally it was it was Arlo, which, as I say, named after Arlo.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've had people in the past ask me if I named the business after the boy or the boy after the business, which is a bit nuts.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: But um I loved and hated it, was called that in almost equal measure, to be honest.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Why is that?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um paranoia.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh as you say, the industry back then, the reputation of it, it wasn't what it is today.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, there's some great firms in this space now doing some great things, and I think that collectively we've all raised the bar.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, there's a there's a firm that I would say are our main competitors.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: I I think they raise our bar, and I'd like to think we raise theirs, you know.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: We constantly have to improve to try and stay ahead, and and I think that really is just a rising tide lifts all ships, right?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh back then, you've got a business in the financial services sector named after your son, and you've got people that aren't shy to go online, and it's a slightly different dynamic when it's your son's name that potentially now we avoided it, um, it never happened, but the paranoia was very real.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um so, and then on the flip side of that, the fact it was named Arlo, I think that maybe made me fight for it in the days where it was really dark, and you know, we we were sort of struggling to make payroll and all the other things that come with starting a business.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: But luckily we we survived those times and we got the right people on board and we managed to move forward.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: You're a you're a big relationship guy, right?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: You love getting out there, playing golf.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, networking is a huge part of your life, a bit like you, sorry, bit like me.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think it energizes us.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're deeply emotive individuals and we like to connect with people, help people, listen to people, and just learn from people, right?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that shaped really your career as well, because it wasn't just you with Arlo, you there was there was a few of you within that business, and then you decided to then merge that company with Harrison Roe, which is Tyler, Will, Assad, Dan and So tell us a bit about that then, because not only have you gone from being employed in a role in a company in one of the you know the most prolific international financial planning companies, set your own business up, Arlow, and then decided to go through a merger.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: So your your actual journey is pretty much every type of journey, and we'll get to the acquisition then that came from Titan Wealth.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Why did you decide then to merge your business with another financial planning business out here?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: What was the reason behind that, and what value at the time, you know, did that add you, the business, the people within it, and the profession as a whole?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's a good question that I wish you'd told me you were going to ask before.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Look, I think if I think back to those days, okay, like Mark and I had focused very much on building uh a structure.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we'd gone and got licenses, uh, we'd built governance, we'd bought people into compliance, we'd bought people into accounts.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um of the people, yeah, we had an accountant who she was really responsible for the initial stages of realizing where the value might be in the business.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: She wanted to make changes that we weren't really ready to make, uh to tell you the truth.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: But we'd built this structure.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um the guys from Harrison Row were actually working for a business at the time that were they were a major player, I would say, uh in the space.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: And they actually didn't want to leave.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like they went to the leadership of that business and said, Look, we're doing this, we would like this.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they've not told me the truth, but uh what they were asking for, certainly in hindsight, doesn't look too onerous.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: And had they been given it, they never would have left.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: And had they not left, we wouldn't be sitting here.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it's one of those weird, like sort of sliding doors situations.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: But they went and asked for what they felt they were worth.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: They were told unequivocally that's never happening here.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we were friends with them.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Mark had lived with Will, or Will had lived with Mark, rather.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we played golf together, it's a small town, you know what it's like.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: And we came up with this plan of like, look, you know, we've got the infrastructure, you've got a team of highly qualified, highly motivated, very ambitious guys that were doing unbelievable things.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, their marketing and their lead generation, and and the way that they were liaising and educating clients and helping clients was unlike anything that anyone else had.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we came up with the agreement that they would come to us and we would incubate them for two years, much like an AR might be in the UK for people that are watching it there.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so they they they came and what we then ended up with inadvertently was this this great structure and a great advisory team.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's not to say that at Arlo we didn't have a great advisory team, but these guys they were a different level, they were doing things that we weren't capable of doing.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we we sat down, we had Arlo Harrison Rub.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think it took us about three months to come up with AHR, uh, which says a lot about the intelligence levels.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we came up with AHR.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we, you know, we we we set about building that that that business.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um but after that incubation period, rather, just going back a step, um we it would have been crazy to that, you know, they wanted to get a license.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: I was always a bit dubious as to whether or not they'd get a licence, nothing to do with them, but everything had gone up.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: The cost of compliance, the governance, the the obtaining of a licence, everything had gotten more challenging.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: And we sat down, you know, we put our big boy pants on and we had a conversation and and we sliced up the business in in what we felt was fair and equitable way.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was it.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we left on a Friday and we came back on Monday, did one of our now famous large events where we stand there and inform everyone what we're doing, and everyone was was really happy.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it became a very good business very, very quickly.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: And how long's that how long was that running for AHR as a as a business as AHR?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I mean, it's almost like each stage of my life, I like block.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I can't remember.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: I know we we put it together in COVID, um, and everyone thinks it was because of COVID, but it wasn't because of COVID.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: In COVID, the office we are sitting in now, we were all working at home.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: We signed this lease uh in COVID, we renovated this office in COVID, um, and then we all came back here.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: And and the office, it plays a huge part of who we are, what we are, you know yourself.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's until people come, you know, that the one thing that people, when they join, it doesn't take them two weeks to say, I just wish I'd come sooner.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um which sounds like a line, but it absolutely isn't a line.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well it's a line that I would back, it's a line that I would back up because I've experienced multiple offices walking in businesses across the UK, uh in Dubai, I've seen lots of different organizations and the energy that can often be within those places.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: I've got to say, and this this genuinely has a very calm energy here.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's friendly, it's calm, and I would say it's like designed in a way that it is cognitively calm, which is nice, especially for someone like me.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm quite high energy and I'm all over the place.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: But being able to walk around it it's beautiful.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: And to go downstairs, I can sit there and do my work on the marina.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like I lived on the marina for a year.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: But being able to work, I think, around here and have accessibility to some fantastic bars, restaurants, if you want to go for a nice little jog or a run, the gym is next door, you've got the mall right next to you, everything's interlinked and connected, the metro, it's a really, really good location.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what you've done with the office here, and the I'm you know, I'm not gonna say how much money's been spent on the office, but a lot has been put into the environment for the benefit of those that work within the business.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: But what's clear from the people that I talk to and interview is just how much they actually value that.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's quite interesting because there's a chap who comes comes to me and he asked me his opinion on whether or not you should go one way or the other in respect to the international advice space and two firms that are interested.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think I just, you know, one of the things that I always like to do is ask questions to that person.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you want?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you want from an environment?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: What motivates you?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: What uh what did what what what takes your energy?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, the more questions I asked, it was very, very clear this was the right environment.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: As I walk in here a couple of days ago, I made the right choice.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for that conversation.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really pleased about that.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I do want to hammer that home because I think environment plays a huge part in happiness.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: It certainly does for me, anyway, and I need to make sure that that environment is right.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think other people often overlook that when they're chasing things like money.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I don't care about the environment.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, no, it plays a huge part in how you feel on a day to day basis.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: So you've done a really good job there.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: The external validation, you know, it's easy, or people would think it's easy.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: If the guys out there are telling me how happy they are, there might be people in the world that think, oh, they're bound to say that.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: So the external validation of someone coming in and going, Wow, this is amazing.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it and it happens.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: We have we have events in the office, we let other people hold events in the office, you know.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um we'll be here to sort of you're meeting new people, you're hearing new stories, and we've made some great connections from that.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: But when they leave and they go, Wow, like you've built a really nice space, like that means as much as any award or anything like that, because it's that is what we're trying to create.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not about money, like if it was just about money, it there's a million things you could do in life that you could go and earn more money.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: But we come here every day and we're so fortunate.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: There genuinely isn't a day that goes by where you don't sit here and feel lucky that we work with all our friends, there isn't a single person in this business that I wouldn't have to my house for dinner.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's an amazing achievement, more so than anything else.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: The fact that we spend so much time at work with our people, and we love it.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's hard to really explain the team out there.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think you guys see it to believe it.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so Dan, you're very open about being caring about everybody in the business.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just advisors, it's absolutely everybody.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us a little bit about that.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, this is, I think, one of the key things, I don't want to say it makes us different, but like you know, at the end of the year, invariably you're you're shouting out people's names and bringing them onto a stage to clap them and explain they've brought in the most AUM, the most clients, the least attrition, whatever it might be.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: But this business isn't built on um the advisors.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the advisors are the product of the foundation that everyone else provides.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we said in the morning meeting this year we need to find a way that we can reward people that make this business work, like our administration team, our back office team.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um they're just the most amazing group of people, and if you remove them, none of it would work.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now, it'd be a challenge if you removed some of the advisors, but hopefully never in an instance where you lose all of the advisors.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: But our back office administration team, our support team, the ladies that clean the office, you know, they're absolutely vital to this working from a cultural perspective.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think the best example I can give of our culture on that regard is, you know, we always have a bit of a whip round for the the ladies that clean the office each year, and this year, when we went to say what needs doing, it had already been done.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: The advisors had done it themselves and raised more money than we ever had.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that was an amazing thing to sort of witness and you think, right, we're we're getting this right, you know.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: How do you balance high standards, high performance with a level of compassion for caring for the staff?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because that can be quite tricky when you're trying to make money, right?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh look, I view it slightly differently.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you've got no compassion, you've got no chance of high standards.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, nobody intentionally makes mistakes, nobody tries to do something wrong.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's about the people first.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you get the right people, the standards will look after themselves.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: The wrong people, the standards, you're never going to achieve high standards with the wrong people.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: So everything we do is led from a compassion perspective, and it's worked for us so far.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where does that level of responsibility come from with you?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Is it look I'd I would love to sit here and tell you it's inherent in me, uh, but it's learned.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um I have a a mentor um who remain nameless um based down in Abu Dhabi, and everything that I'm saying, everything I've learned, um he's taught me.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he's taught me more than anyone else on the planet, to be honest.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's about looking after people, it's about building uh that right culture, providing the right values.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: And at a point in the journey, also we we had to seek a secondary uh investor.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he wrote uh it's on my LinkedIn for anyone interested enough to read it.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but he wrote, you know, you either work for people or people work for you, and I've never forgotten that.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and my view is you know, I work for them, they they don't work for me.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, what happens when leaders forget that the business is the people within it?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um good question from you in particular.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think if people forget that the people are the main driver, at some point those people are going to become disenfranchised, right?
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're not gonna believe in the leader and ultimately the organization.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: The the people need to be first and foremost in in any organisation for me.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Fortunately, Touchwood, like I don't have any direct experience of that because we've always put the people first.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but in other businesses that I look at where there are principles that clearly put themselves first, um, I can think of four just off the top of my head.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's people building their own brand at the detriment of the people, they're building their own brand at the detriment of their business.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: But also, what I don't understand about that process is like they're ultimately chained to the mast.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if they make themselves so synonymous with that business, how do they ever leave?
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: And at that point that they do leave, what is that business ultimately then worth?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because I would argue that the business, um, like this business has and will always be bigger than me.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I've never been the most important person in it.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: This business has to come first, but that'll also be the thing that allows one day somebody to step into that CEO role, and nobody will think, oh well, Dan's leaving, so that business is going to fail.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's the business first and foremost, and the moment that anyone is better equipped to do my role than me, I will be the first person to step aside and say, This guy should do that, and I'll go and do something else in the organisation towards the cause, hopefully.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one thing I would also say is look, you built a fantastic business at AHR, everything was going absolutely fine.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, did you then just put your hand up and say, We're for sale, come and buy us?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: No, what how did that come about?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: And also, like, you know, how did you feel at the time?
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: Why, why, you know, yeah, how did it come about and how did you feel?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: And why did you do it?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Look, we we were never for sale.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that that wasn't the the objective.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: The actual object the way that year started, uh and I'm talking year as in the year before, sort of in 23, the other guys didn't know.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think Mark knew and and and Tyler, I think I'd mentioned I'd sort of started going out, having conversations with institutions, with fundhouses, family offices, and I was trying to work out the right place to seek what I would term patient capital.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it was a case of trying to raise money from somebody patient enough to be this isn't, we're not flipping this, we're not trying to create value here.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: We're trying to grow the business to a point where we can share value.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I spent 12 months meeting people from all walks of of life.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we were looking for about 10 million, and we were going to do the first what I would term real international buy and build, which aligns us straight away with what Titan were trying to do in the UK, albeit we didn't know who Titan were at the time.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I mean I met everybody, you know.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I met the household names, I met people that you would probably cross the street to avoid.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I met everybody.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Every single person that I met offered us the money.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: There wasn't a single person that when I um I've still got the investment deck, uh the opportunity deck, as we called it.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they all said that they would do it.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: But at the 11th hour, everything was predicated on us moving our clients' assets into a range of investments that were completely unpalatable to any of us.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I was hugely deflated.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like the the bit it was we were a great business, right?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: We'd built this business, we were doing really well, but we were we were effectively trying to build and grow the business relative to our revenue.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: So you're making a 30% gross margin, you're after your costs and everything else, you're making between 15 and 20, and that's your capital to develop the business.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you can have the best business in the world, but if that's how you're growing, your your growth is always predicated on your the year that you've had, and we were reinvesting everything, we weren't taking anything as a leadership team.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so when when it was a case of it felt like, yeah, we'll give you the money, but you've got to do things that morally you're never gonna do, um, it felt quite flat, to be honest.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: So when Titan arrived, it's strange because I met them here, the address.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: There was um there was a fund manager that was doing an event uh by the side of the pool in typical Dubai fashion.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and someone said you should come and meet Titan.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I won't say I needed to be begged, but I it took a lot of convincing because I just I was so sick of it, and and I sort of at that point couldn't really see a way forward.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, anyway, I went there, I met Mark.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, fair to say, from the moment I met him, I think it was 30 seconds to a minute.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, yeah, I can get on board with this guy.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it was clear that Titan weren't the same as anyone else that I'd met.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: It was clear that they were really trying to do something different.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um wonderful range of investments, and but I through what I'd learnt that year, I started with what are you going to expect our clients to do?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that just nipped that in the bud straight away.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: We then met, Tyler and I met James.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's impossible to not be impressed by James.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: I sat with him yesterday, I can say I know what you mean.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, the the it's just impossible to not be impressed by him.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then that was it, you know.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think on meeting two, three, that they were like, this is a done deal, and we believed them very naively.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we spent 12 months.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, the capital is American, so we would get to the end of our day, and everything was rosy and it was all brilliant, and you'd go home really happy with yourself, and you'd wake up in the morning to emails from Boston or San Francisco with a raft of problems, some of which weren't problems, you know.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: There's a hell of a lot that a spreadsheet won't tell you about a business.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we'd fix those problems by lunchtime, and then by you know, the evening again, the deal was back on and everything was great, and then we'd go through the same process again, which is incredibly draining, to be honest.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things that I want people to understand is look, in the international space, it is predominantly financial planners within a business that are really kind of like mini businesses with within a business, predominantly the model that's been out here for quite some time, and I know that you're really keen to change that model moving forward.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Andreas Hollis, a fantastic financial planner, and I asked him some questions.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I just said, Look, Andreas, when you went through the process of Titan Wealth acquiring AHR, he was the to financial planner within the business.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I asked him, did it did it make you nervous?
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: And he said 100% it made me nervous.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: How do you there's a couple of things I want to talk about around this?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: How did you make sure that everybody in this business benefited from Titan wealth acquiring it?
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's the first thing I want to look at.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: And secondly, I want to look at how did you then deal with the external pressure of other business coming in to disrupt what essentially was something brand new and left you open to attack, I guess.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: So let's start with the first one first of all, then.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: So Andrew Hollis, top performer, lots of good financial planners within this business.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: How did you make sure that they beneficed from the deal that was going through as well?
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, Andreas is a is a he's a he's a brilliant example, but he's also a terrible example in this instance because he's so brilliant.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, he would be brilliant anywhere.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think our environment enhances him, and I think what we now are it gives him a platform that that he wouldn't have anywhere else.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're talking about a guy that was offered a lot of money from another firm last year.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I guess we'll get on to recruitment and things like that.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, he brings it, he he brought it to us.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think the best example that you can give is that, you know, people are targeted in terms of recruitment.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: They come to us and say, I've been offered this, and I always say, Go, like, go and find out what they're what they want to offer you, and go and find out um what they're they're telling you.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, he was nervous, rightly so.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, of course, it was his life's work, like you know, the the way that these people unlock their shares was by folding their life's work into our common goal.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and Andreas would always have been fine, right?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: But he'd have only ever been Andreas, he'd have got to a glass ceiling, and you're talking about one of the most ambitious people that you can imagine or you could ever meet in life.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: So when he gets tired of the day-to-day or or the advice or whatever, he may or may not.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: But now seeing the way that he looks after people, he coaches people, he helps people, the way that he's bought into what our message was, is phenomenal to see because now he's got these two things.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I can't do, I can do one of those things, and I can help him and teach him and and and educate him into how I believe a business should be built.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: But the other stuff that he can do, I I can't do that.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's not my skill set, it's not my role.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's certainly I'm not the best person to deliver that, and I've now got someone that can do both of these things, which is amazing.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the nerves, we we the only thing that that uh nearly derailed this with Titan three times was when it looked like the guys might be treated differently to the directors.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm talking in terms of share class or whatever else it might be, and we were saying we're paying them this, and people thought we were crazy, but they built this business, you know.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: We were never going to do anything, and I think that with your senior staff, like Andreas, we involved them in it from such an early stage, so they weren't listening to us, they were hearing from the lawyers, they were hearing from Titan, they were hearing from the advisors on the deal, they were hearing in some instances from the from the back the financial backers.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: And the credibility that that got, where we put them in a room and left, we had nothing to hide.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: So those nerves, you know, dissipated pretty quickly.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: So open authenticity, you trusted everybody and said, look, this is what we're doing, this is how we're doing it, and we're going to construct something with tight end wealth that doesn't just benefit us but benefits you as well.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that like I say, that's how that everyone here has shares, and these aren't phantom shares, these aren't, you know, figures on an Excel spreadsheet that have been made up by one or two people.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, these are physical, real, genuine shares that are valued externally by one of the big four accountancy firms in the world.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: The reason that we have to do that is because obviously as a group we have leverage ratios, so we have to make sure that our revenue remains in line with the money that's drawn down to build.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I don't want to go down the road of you're probably gonna ask me about the recruitment and things like that, I'm sure, but like I don't want to go down the road of the things that get said, but this is a proper business, like we're not the same, you know.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: We're backed by one of the I think the second largest debt fund in the world, we've then backed by PCP.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: We've got some incredibly intelligent, astute people within the leadership team.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: We're just learning as much as we can from them whilst trying to present or provide as much value.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we almost go into this, you know.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: I I get imposter syndrome really badly.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we go into this almost with a not a chip on our shoulder, but a bit of a point to prove.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's like we want to show the rest of the group why we were required.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned it before, the international space used to have an awful reputation.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: There are still pockets in the UK of people that look at the international space, and we've not forgotten that.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: So when we go and present, we very much go there with a case of going, this is who we are, this is what we do, this is the value that we're trying to create for you.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and that's it's worked well so far.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're yeah, we're we've become a key part of the group.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: I will ask you about the recruitment side because you're selling a business, and when you sell it, when you when you sell a business, there is a potential for somebody to attack your business and try to take your staff and um I don't know, kind of like they see it as an opportunity, right?
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it happens in every business across the UK.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's not unique to financial planning or even international financial planning, it's every business.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: So and I think it's also important because you are involved in acquiring businesses yourself.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: You go out, you meet other international financial planning companies, and um you know, there's some great success happening, and that's really, really positive.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's important that we do talk about it because you've gone through the journey, not only working for yourself, merging with a company, into selling into Titan Wealth to be part of a bigger organization, you've gone through that journey, and I think people sitting there with their life's work that they care so deeply about need to hear this type of thing, right?
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: What are the kind of things that can come up during that journey that you've had the privilege of experience that you can then articulate to those individuals and essentially, in so many words, hold their hand through the process to make sure everything goes smoothly, and recruitment is one of those.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, what challenges did you come up against that?
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um this is the first test, isn't it?
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um look, it there's two recruiters that that that spring to mind, okay.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: The first one uh recruits for a network.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: So let's think about the the business and the people in it.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to be in a business where none of your guys are getting targeted?
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: Of course you don't, because it means your guys are no good, right?
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: So you what you want them to be good enough to be of value for someone to want to recruit them.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: There's a gentleman uh who'll remain nameless.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um he might not even watch this, but he he'll know who he is uh when I explain.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't like that he he went you know for our guys because he's very good at what he does.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um he was recruiting, trying to recruit them.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: He went about it in a really professional, really nice, really measured way.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so I emailed him and told him.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: I just said, look, you know, would you mind not targeting our guys?
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I will just say I really admire the way that you do it, the way that you go about it.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: He emailed me back.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: He actually very nearly came to work for us at one point, uh, but he didn't because he saw opportunities elsewhere.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: But that, I've got no issue with that.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: There's another chap.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm absolutely convinced that his business plan is I'm gonna wait to see what Titan acquire, and then I'm gonna target everybody from the cleaner to the CEO.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now, that the way that that works, I've just I've got no time for that at all.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: I actually once called that person and just said, Look, you work for a business that do amazing things.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, have you considered maybe telling people how brilliant your business is rather than how poor you think our business is?
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: That fell on deaf ears.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: So said person now has three pages in our onboarding deck because we go and see people and we say to them, This is who's gonna contact you, this is what he's gonna say, this is the reason why none of it makes any sense.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: And when that then happens, the credibility that that creates is crazy.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: And also in that process, the principal, um, I mean, everybody knows we're we're acquiring or midway through acquiring Black Tower.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: The principal is concerned that people are attacking people, etc., etc.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: We say this is what's gonna happen, this is who's gonna contact them, this is what he's gonna say.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: We answer everything that he says to the guys.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: The advisors call and just say, Oh, this happened, I did say that, and I've answered with this.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: And in some instances, you know, you'll always get people that want to believe something, but they're probably not aligned to what you're trying to achieve anyway.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's gonna happen.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: I wish the whole industry in terms of recruitment was more professional.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we're not in a world at the moment where if somebody wanted to leave our business and join another, or vice versa, I can't ring the CEO and say, look, this guy's thinking about leaving, is he any good?
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not the way, it's not mature enough for it to work that way, which is a shame.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that the recruitment practices could definitely be more person one than person two, even if person two has actually helped us build credibility with people that we're acquiring.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's painful and as scary as it can actually be for people that go through this process.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people look at it and go like, how's it painful and scary selling a business, you know, making some money and all of that?
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: It is, it's an emotional, it's an emotional journey how you exit your business, whether it's on your terms or not on your terms, and it can cause some serious emotional trauma regardless of the route that you go down.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think lived experience and being honest and authentic around the journey that you've been on is is super powerful to be able to preempt and help.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Help people through that journey.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, that experience around what to expect from recruitment, you're now an expert in that.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: You now know how to handle that situation, hopefully defuse it and prepare people that some things are going to come up and you might not expect it.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: So when you were going through the process of selling your business, happy, were you sort of like, yeah, easy peasy emotionally?
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: How did you handle it?
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: Funnily enough, um, a friend of mine, him and his brother, have got the biggest best uh real estate business in Dubai.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I saw him last week, and he said to me, that was the first thing he asked.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: He said, uh, how did you feel after you sold it?
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because he has a podcast and he has a lot of people on there that have been hugely successful.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, you know, a lot of them get founders, depression was how he called it.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: And we were hitting golf balls at the time, and honestly, I felt like this wave of like almost like relief that he's hugely successful, very experienced.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're we're from very similar places back home, actually.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the fact that he said it and acknowledged the fact that that exists made me think, God, it that is a thing, it's not I'm not weird.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I think people think that you know, you you we didn't sell, okay.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's I think that's the first thing that that's a bit of a misconception.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's not like we've sold and and everything's rosy, like the majority of our value is in Titan shares.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it isn't like we could leave, retire, or anything else.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: We've we have to make this work, and that retains that ambition.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I wish it was the other way, um, but I don't think we'd be performing the way that we are now if everybody had had uh realized a lot of value.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um but it is real, yeah.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you've spent a decade more working towards this this goal, and for whatever reason, whether it's for the reason I did it or whether it's just someone starts a business and whatever else, like the the you're working towards this one thing, and then one day it just changes.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you mentioned noise before, and you mentioned extra, I think you said external pressure, um, which we can address in a minute, but like it, you know, the deal just consumes you so much that actually you're pretty insulated from anything outside of it, it it just the the sole focus is that.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then one day you wake up and the deal's done, and you know, you've got a new goal and a new target, and and from personal experience, it just takes a bit of time to adjust to what that new goal and that new target is, and it's the same, but everything's just bigger.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's you know, yeah, that's what it is.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: Everything is just bigger.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think you can be emotionally involved in a business, right?
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people were like, let's say, for example, like your financial planners within a business, they were emotionally involved within your business, or you can be emotionally attached to your business, and I think when it changes, it changes something within you, um, and you have to deal with it.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, from my own personal experience, it was never the same size as your business.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: I had a recruitment business and I I exited out of it, and it wasn't on my terms.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I was my legs were taken out from me.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: After two months, I was completely miserable, I was depressed because everything that I'd done every day, and all this vision in my head, and all this energy that I put into it, and the people within it, and the changes, and how I'd got it to where I wanted to get it.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: In a week, I do a deal and it was done and it was gone.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like getting out of bed in the morning and thinking, What the hell's going on?
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: And where am I gonna go?
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: It felt like I was a baby, it was really strange, really, really, really strange.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, again, like in you know, going into the personal season is a podcast, it's going public, I totally get it.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was tough for you, but again, I think who you are, because you don't shy away from that, you're able to articulate that to anybody, and I think again, in a space where you are going potentially go out and acquire more businesses, and there is plenty of people that you can speak to, it's good that you've had that lived experience, it's good that you can prepare people for it.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I like that about you, and I like that about Titan.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, deal done, fantastic, right?
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: If I can I just touch on the what you said there, though.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I um we talked about the external pressures, you see, you say that, like I I don't think about that.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, my responsibility is to me, to this, to the the colleagues I have here, to the board, to clients, to all of our stakeholders, internal and external.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care about anything beyond that.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you mentioned that um saying about how I feel, I I don't care about that either.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm I'm going out to meet these people as people.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I had a friend last year who went through a lot of adversity uh to get to a conclusion that was inevitable.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: But when he eventually achieved what he achieved, his opening thing he said was, I'm a good person first.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I try to be.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: I've got no problem talking about the depth or the emotional elements of this because ultimately, when I go and meet people that are selling businesses, I know how they're feeling.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: And what's brilliant about Titan is yes, you might sell a business, but as I said earlier on, on the Monday, it's the exact same job, it's a different name above the door, there's different colleagues, there's different people to learn from, and everything else.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: But it's the same job, like you're working with the same colleagues, you're part of a bigger organization.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that that mitigates the whole, you know, you see people leave football clubs, don't you?
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then for months after they're turning up at the training ground because it's all they know.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so when I meet these businesses, it the predominantly like we're meeting businesses where everyone's staying, hopefully.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: But if we ever acquire a business where somebody might leave, I wouldn't they wouldn't leave, and that would be that.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like I would call these people because as I said before about the guys in the US, there's a hell of a lot about these businesses that you won't learn from a spreadsheet.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: So the nuances they come from the relationships, and the relationships come from the people that built the business.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, the the emotional aspect of it is probably the key thing.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we're never going to shy away from being who we are, saying how we feel, whether it's on a podcast that's going out to everybody or not.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is who we are.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: Emotional intelligence is key.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: You guys have got it in abundance and it runs through the business as a whole, across time wealth.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that comes again through a group of experience experience of grouping together so many different businesses with so many different skill sets, and you have to balance that.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, when I speak to James yesterday, it was clear the guy's got a high level of emotional intelligence and he attracts the types of people that fit the model, and I think that's really, really important, you know, because you can't make everybody dance to the same tune, uh, but you can do if everybody's on the same page.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that's good news.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, Titan Wealth, year or so now, what are we looking at?
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: Nearly coming up to two years, isn't it?
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think uh well, two, it'll be two years in August, won't it?
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: So we're what 18 months.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, how have you managed to keep everybody focused?
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: What's the energy like being out there?
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because obviously a few people have received some nice uh cash events, and maybe they bought some houses and things like that, and maybe the um maybe the recurring income is a little bit less for them because of that.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: Have you seen a decline in business?
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: I know you talked a little bit about the fantastic marketing and everything that was brought across, and Will's involved in that as well.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm we're gonna go into detail that on a different podcast, actually, about the brilliant marketing and how you're supporting financial advisors through financial education and generating leads in that marketing fund, which is absolutely exceptional.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: But what have you seen so far?
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: What's the energy been like?
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: What have the advisors been like?
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a resurgence in energy?
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_01: Are they chilling out?
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: And what about you?
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: Your job, has it changed?
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, look, uh the advisors, um again, uh it's for a different podcast to get into the detail of that, as you say, and Will is far better placed than I am to explain all of those things.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: But the advisors, we're in a situation where your most successful advisor, if you like, he looks after X amount of AUM, it's on a fee, he's earning X before he starts doing anything that year.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: But these are invariably your most experienced, most talented people.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: So you need these people in the business to educate, help, train, develop people that are aspiring to their level.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: You also need them to continue driving the revenue.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so when they became shareholders and they they sort of forwent, if that's a word, they they let go of some of their asset base.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: That reinvigorated them because these people are they're ambitious people, you know, and they want to be um the best, they want to do well in life, they want to provide.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: The first money that came into the business we paid uh to the guys.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: I won't mention the figure, but it was significant, um, you know, and a lot of them did really quite nicely, and again, that just helps build the culture, the trust, and everything else.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: But what we've now developed is a business where 18 years ago it was incredibly selfish.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you had a list of clients, you couldn't leave them on the printer.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas now, what we've got is a situation where if a complex client request comes through the marketing channel, we will probably have two very experienced experts on that topic.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: There'll be a team of people that are allocated to it.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: No one cares who takes the credit as long as the client gets the best possible advice that they can get.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's our focus.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, the the we're here to effectively give clients time, right?
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's what we're doing.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: We want to give them great advice, we want to give them their time back so that they're not worrying about this, thinking about this, having to do this themselves.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: And if we can provide all of those services, we're about to acquire a tax business.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, we've we've accountancy links, we've investment expertise, we've absolutely everything on a soon-to-be truly global scale with things we're looking at in Hong Kong, Singapore, um, the US.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: If we can look after those clients in one place and they've got commonality with advisor, yes, when a client moves to a certain jurisdiction, they might have to have a day-to-day advisor that's regulated in that jurisdiction that can look after them and give them the advice, but they've constantly got that relationship with somebody that they've had for years.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, our client attrition rates are incredibly low.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and that's that's brilliant because we must be doing something.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: And there are just so many angles and so many things that are coming up.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the repatriation of clients back into the UK as well, which happens way more than people probably think.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that's a huge part of the business.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of the advisors are then leaning to the UK side.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: There's great work being done in the UK and the Titan wealth in respect of academies, sports academies.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: You love your sport, you love your golf.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: Those are great things that are happening around that space.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_01: So culturally aligned, which is really beautiful.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's a phrase that's going around, and I'm saying in every single podcast, because I want to hammer it home actually, like one titan.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_01: The phrase one titan.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, what does one titan mean to you?
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, someone somewhere has been paid a fortune to come up with that, haven't they?
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um look, slogans, phrases, things like that.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're a success when you can ask ten different people in ten different rooms and get a similar answer.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_00: One Titan to me is, you know, we're one group, we're one team, we're working towards one shared objective.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's it.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_00: And our role internally in that is as I said before, it's to show as much value as we possibly can to all the other shareholders in the group.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think that there is an element where, you know, we do a weekly management call.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: We've benefited hugely from, well, frankly, Rachel Reeves.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and the amount of people that are coming here and the calibre of those people.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: We our largest client in the group has moved here, and we've he's a wonderful, wonderful man, hugely experienced.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's a real privilege actually to have him here and be able to meet him and and chat.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: But it's a case of going, you can trust us with your clients.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like we are one titan.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_00: If your best client moves, we are going to look after him as well, if not better, than you do because we feel like we've got that thing to prove.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_00: So the repatriation element, um, we have that as well.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, there are people going the other way for whatever reason, um, and it's about making sure that that we get that right as well.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: And the benefit of Titan is with however many offices around the UK, I wouldn't have thought we're ever more than an hour, an hour and a half away from where anywhere that somebody would live.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's it's a phenomenal organization, like it's it's hard to convey, and I think hopefully it comes across as we're being open and honest enough.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: If there were faults in it, I would say, like, genuinely, but so far, so good.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_01: And what are you most excited about in the future?
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, look, it's very different to what we were building.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's I don't have a job, you know.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_00: I I I fly around the world, I'm meeting people to acquire their businesses.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_00: My worst case scenario is they're not the right fit, or they don't like me, or they don't like Titan, or whatever it is, but I've met someone that started a business, grown a business, they're invariably interesting people.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so my worst case is I come away with more experience, more knowledge, another contact, everything else.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, it I go to Hong Kong, I spend four hours in a golf buggy with somebody whose business looks quite nice.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_00: It turns out his business is quite nice.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_00: He's got an amazing team of people.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_00: I explain my journey from you know, phone advisor, starting a business, merging a business, selling a business, and these people, you know, we become friends pretty quick.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then it's about coming to the business, like this is how you might feel.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them don't, like, some of them can't wait to be acquired and be part of something bigger.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it it's it's not a job, you know.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh I absolutely love it.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_00: There's some amazing people that have done some amazing things that are soon to become part of Titan, and and that's just that's amazing, like really amazing.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: So the next five years I think are pretty exciting to be honest for all of us.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, Dan, thank you so much for sharing your journey.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_01: I know you're quite a humble person, you're not somebody who goes on podcasts all the time.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you don't like to talk about yourself.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_01: I know that.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so listen, thanks for sharing that journey.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think it kind of gives people great insight into what it's like to run an international business.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_01: The journey that you've been on isn't always easy, but for the greater good, it's the people, and that's one title.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been really enjoyable learning more about your journey, Dan.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_00: Cheers.