Latest / Hopestream: Parenting Kids Through Addiction & Mental Health / What Does Support Look Like When Your Child is in Recovery?, with Cathy Cioth

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What Does Support Look Like When Your Child is in Recovery?, with Cathy Cioth · Hopestream: Parenting Kids Through Addiction & Mental Health

• 0:04
  Cathy: I asked him what his meeting was like, and I just was kind of being a mom.
• 0:09
  Cathy: I really wanted to know more about it.
• 0:10
  Cathy: And you know, full disclosure, I wanted to make sure he was doing the work, right?
• 0:17
  Cathy: And I had no right to really do that.
• 0:20
  Cathy: And in a really beautiful and loving way, he said, mom, I really understand why you're asking me those questions, but with all due respect, my recovery is my recovery.
• 0:30
  Cathy: And I thought, wow, okay, that's great.
• 0:32
  Cathy: And so I really had to take a step aside from that and realize that I could not be in charge of anything my kids are doing in their recovery.
• 0:42
  Cathy: I can't.
• 0:51
  Brenda: Welcome to HopeStream, a podcast where you'll hear interviews, conversations, and encouraging words.
• 0:58
  Brenda: For parents of teens and young adults who struggle with substance misuse and mental health.
• 1:03
  Brenda: I'm Brenda Zane, your host and a fellow parent whose child struggled.
• 1:08
  Brenda: I'm so glad you're here.
• 1:09
  Brenda: Take a deep breath and know you're not doing this alone anymore.
• 1:28
  Cathy: Hey, Miss Kathy, you are back.
• 1:31
  Cathy: I am.
• 1:33
  Cathy: I had a nice little vacation.
• 1:35
  Cathy: But it was also a vacation because my father in law passed away.
• 1:39
  Cathy: Yeah.
• 1:40
  Cathy: But, oh my gosh, it was just lovely to be with him at the end of his life.
• 1:44
  Cathy: And I know I've talked about him before.
• 1:46
  Cathy: He was 101 and a half.
• 1:49
  Cathy: And it was just so nice to be with family and everybody.
• 1:53
  Cathy: And Then I took a little, little break with my husband and some friends and it was just really nice.
• 2:01
  Brenda: So important.
• 2:02
  Brenda: It's so important to take that time.
• 2:04
  Brenda: And I know we're going to talk a little bit about what's going on in the stream, but one of the things that is a new feature that we have are these little icons that show your, basically your streak, which I hate that word, but you know, it's just a reminder of checking in every day.
• 2:21
  Brenda: And I lost my streak.
• 2:23
  Brenda: Did you lose yours?
• 2:25
  Brenda: I did.
• 2:25
  Brenda: Oh, see, that's
• 2:26
  Cathy: good.
• 2:27
  Cathy: I know it's good, but I had all this anxiety about it because I am one of those people.
• 2:33
  Cathy: That well, I don't know if I would say I'm a rule.
• 2:36
  Cathy: Well, I am a rule follower.
• 2:38
  Cathy: I am one of those people.
• 2:39
  Cathy: But what I love about that is, you know, when I'm listening to my meditation app or I listened to this prayer app and I always like it when it says, Oh my gosh, you've done six days in a row.
• 2:52
  Cathy: And I just, I'm going to give myself a little pat on the back because I feel so happy.
• 2:56
  Cathy: And I remember you got back from your little break and I said, Brenda, oh my gosh, you lost your strength.
• 3:04
  Brenda: I totally did.
• 3:06
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 3:07
  Brenda: It's good though.
• 3:08
  Brenda: It's really good.
• 3:09
  Brenda: It was
• 3:09
  Cathy: so good.
• 3:09
  Cathy: It was so, it took me one day to get over it, honestly, one day.
• 3:15
  Brenda: And then you're like, oh what?
• 3:16
  Brenda: Oh, there's a whale.
• 3:18
  Brenda: Oh yeah.
• 3:18
  Brenda: Oh cool.
• 3:19
  Brenda: Cool.
• 3:19
  Brenda: Cool.
• 3:19
  Brenda: Cool.
• 3:21
  Brenda: I know.
• 3:21
  Brenda: Well, it's important because, you know, we, we're steeped in, in a very intense business, I guess, you know, we, we do this all day every day.
• 3:31
  Brenda: So we're in it and it can be easy to lose perspective that, you know, when I'm with my other kids who don't struggle or have never struggled, I'm like, Oh yeah, actually the majority of kids.
• 3:44
  Brenda: Don't struggle.
• 3:46
  Brenda: We can lose perspective, but we were just looking at these stats today that 8.
• 3:53
  Brenda: 5 percent of adolescents, so 12 to 17 year olds, have a diagnosed substance use disorder.
• 3:59
  Brenda: So that's obviously, you know, 90, I can't do math, 97 and a half.
• 4:05
  Brenda: It's a lot.
• 4:05
  Brenda: Percent don't struggle.
• 4:09
  Brenda: I know.
• 4:09
  Brenda: Not 97.
• 4:10
  Brenda: You know what I mean?
• 4:11
  Brenda: No, but yeah.
• 4:12
  Brenda: And then on the young adult side, 18 to 25 year olds, 27 percent struggle.
• 4:18
  Brenda: That is a little astonishing to me, actually.
• 4:20
  Brenda: That's a pretty high number.
• 4:22
  Brenda: However, it's still By far the minority.
• 4:26
  Brenda: I think even when my son was struggling, I literally thought like, Oh my gosh, there's all these kids and they're all struggling and you can get, you can get you in a kind of a negative spiral.
• 4:36
  Brenda: So anyway, I do like statistics and I think those are good ones to remind us that We are part of a very, uh, elite, unique, small club.
• 4:49
  Cathy: We're like, we're like the SEAL Team moms.
• 4:51
  Cathy: We are.
• 4:52
  Cathy: That's what we are.
• 4:52
  Cathy: Oh, for sure.
• 4:53
  Cathy: We're SEAL Team.
• 4:54
  Cathy: So if you are in the struggle, you know, and you want to feel really good about it, just know that come to HopeStream, you will be that SEAL Team mom.
• 5:04
  Cathy: And, you know, because it does take an elite level of parenting and not to beat yourself up for not really knowing what to do.
• 5:12
  Cathy: Yeah.
• 5:12
  Cathy: Because, you know, as we know, right, you know, nine, eight, eight years ago for you, nine years ago for me, we had no idea what to do at this time.
• 5:23
  Cathy: And, you know, hence why HopeStream was created and very grateful for, you know, Bob Myers and craft and learning all these wonderful tools.
• 5:35
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 5:35
  Brenda: You wouldn't learn them otherwise.
• 5:37
  Brenda: I was actually thinking I do this and.
• 5:41
  Brenda: I think, I don't know, I'll share it because I think it may make people feel better.
• 5:46
  Brenda: But whenever we get a new member in the stream, we get a little notification, right?
• 5:50
  Brenda: It goes ding, and then you look in your little notifications and it says, you know, Sue Smith joined the stream.
• 5:58
  Brenda: And when I see that, I always think, oh, Sue, lucky you.
• 6:05
  Brenda: First of all, you found the right people.
• 6:06
  Brenda: But I kind of.
• 6:08
  Brenda: Do a little blessing over their name because I think, you know what, you actually are very lucky because you are going to learn so many things and so many skills and tools that are going to serve you well in your life and really radically change your relationships that No kidding.
• 6:27
  Brenda: It's like a little gift that they, that is wrapped in a nightmare.
• 6:30
  Brenda: Right?
• 6:30
  Brenda: It's like, they don't know how lucky they are at that moment.
• 6:35
  Brenda: Usually when they're joining, they're in a pretty bad place, but I do, I say a little blessing over them and I think, let's go.
• 6:42
  Brenda: Let's do this.
• 6:43
  Cathy: I love that.
• 6:44
  Cathy: I love that.
• 6:45
  Cathy: And Newsflash, I think all of our members do.
• 6:48
  Cathy: I think that is what's so special about the stream is that when you join, oh my gosh, you found your little tribe there and.
• 6:58
  Cathy: You're so welcomed in and I, I love that you do that.
• 7:02
  Cathy: That's so neat.
• 7:03
  Cathy: And I, I also feel the same way when someone, someone joins and I think, oh, great.
• 7:09
  Cathy: You're far ahead of me, I often think that, you know, which which is kind of, you know, a little lead onto what, uh, we're going to talk about today, but I do think we should talk about what's going on in, in our wonderful little community.
• 7:25
  Cathy: Oh my gosh.
• 7:26
  Cathy: So much.
• 7:27
  Cathy: Some really great things.
• 7:28
  Cathy: Yeah.
• 7:29
  Cathy: I think we've had a great start to the year, actually.
• 7:31
  Brenda: Totally.
• 7:32
  Brenda: You want to give a quick little rundown of all the things?
• 7:35
  Cathy: Yeah.
• 7:35
  Cathy: All the things.
• 7:36
  Cathy: Yeah.
• 7:37
  Cathy: So.
• 7:37
  Cathy: Well, we started off this year by, you know, we, we listened to our members and they wanted to have small group workshops.
• 7:44
  Cathy: So we thought, let's, let's try it.
• 7:47
  Cathy: And Oh, they'd been so great.
• 7:49
  Cathy: We brought in some new coaches that have been leading these, uh, workshops, mindset matters.
• 7:57
  Cathy: Amazing.
• 7:58
  Cathy: I, I'm, I'm really going to do a disservice if I donate them all, but craft, ITC, obviously.
• 8:05
  Brenda: And quick note on our craft and ITC is that, uh, we teach craft and the invitation to change through the lens of the parent.
• 8:16
  Brenda: So it is not because when you get trained, it is.
• 8:20
  Brenda: Really from the perspective of a spouse or partner, for the most part, like the examples are given, not always, there's some examples of maybe siblings boyfriend, girlfriend, but it's very few, like there's very few examples or scenarios that are.
• 8:38
  Brenda: Parents with young, young kids and young adults.
• 8:41
  Brenda: So what we do is we have taken the craft curriculum and the invitation to change and we've completely customized it so that every example, you're not going to hear like, Oh, Jane is a, you know, 62 year old woman who's married to Jack and Jack came home drunk for the fourth time.
• 8:59
  Brenda: Like, no, cause that's, well, maybe you are dealing with that.
• 9:02
  Brenda: And if you are, we're very sorry, but what you're probably wanting to know is what do you do with your 14 year old who smokes weed all day and won't get out of his room and is playing video games and like all that.
• 9:14
  Brenda: So anyway, that's just a quick note on, on how we teach craft and ITC is it is 100 percent customized for.
• 9:22
  Brenda: parent.
• 9:23
  Cathy: Absolutely.
• 9:24
  Cathy: And it's, it's, it's really so helpful, right?
• 9:26
  Cathy: To have that customization there.
• 9:29
  Cathy: So yeah, so we've had dbt, executive functioning, and this, now we're starting basically going into, you know, the next part of the year, we're going to have motivational interviewing, a little workshop on that.
• 9:43
  Cathy: What else?
• 9:43
  Cathy: Oh, we have a wonderful guest speaker, Jodi Bostwick, that is going to be on.
• 9:48
  Cathy: She's going to be talking about medication for opiate use in adolescence, which is, if you are familiar, that, that hasn't always been the way that, you know, there's been medic, medication, uh, assisted therapy for adolescence.
• 10:02
  Cathy: It's, you know, I don't believe it was ever approved
• 10:05
  Brenda: by.
• 10:06
  Brenda: It was approved, I think 16 and up.
• 10:09
  Brenda: But the problem is there's not a lot of providers that want to do that, right?
• 10:14
  Brenda: It's like a little more complicated in a, I think that's still considered like a pediatric thing.
• 10:19
  Brenda: So Boulder Care has really stepped into that space in adolescent care.
• 10:25
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 10:25
  Brenda: So Jody's going to join us as a guest speaker, which is very cool.
• 10:29
  Brenda: We have narrative therapy going on, nonviolent communication.
• 10:34
  Brenda: So, there's a lot of good, a lot of good stuff in there.
• 10:37
  Brenda: And that's in addition to like the, you know, like the community stuff.
• 10:42
  Cathy: All the other fun community stuff.
• 10:44
  Cathy: We do a live, you and I do a live, we do, you could almost call it podcast 2.
• 10:49
  Cathy: 0 every, every month.
• 10:51
  Cathy: Yes.
• 10:51
  Cathy: We do a little live, which is fun.
• 10:52
  Brenda: It is fun.
• 10:54
  Brenda: That is fun.
• 10:54
  Brenda: But today we thought, because we both have kiddos in long term recovery, mine coming up on eight years, I actually was just talking to my son yesterday, and we realized that it is Easter.
• 11:07
  Brenda: So he, uh, had his last overdose and basically died on Good Friday of 2017 and came back to the world on Easter Sunday.
• 11:21
  Brenda: So if you Or an Easter believer.
• 11:24
  Brenda: That's pretty freaking amazing.
• 11:27
  Cathy: It was really freaking amazing.
• 11:30
  Cathy: You guys went through a lot.
• 11:33
  Brenda: We did.
• 11:34
  Brenda: This leads into what the topic that we're talking about today, which is some of the questions that, that Kathy and I still ask ourselves.
• 11:43
  Brenda: And I'm sure other people do who have kids on longterm recovery, because there is a kind of a perception like, Oh, we're going to get through this and then.
• 11:51
  Brenda: Life's going to carry on and it'll be like a little blip, you know, in our world and maybe it will be.
• 11:57
  Brenda: And that's, there's no right or wrong way to do this, but we just thought, you know, there are some kind of big questions that we continue to ask ourselves.
• 12:06
  Brenda: And one of mine, as I come up on this anniversary every year of, of his, uh, I don't even know what to call it.
• 12:15
  Brenda: His event, his rebirth, his rebirth, which literally was a rebirth is, you know, what if I would have handled our divorce differently?
• 12:26
  Brenda: Cause our divorce was definitely a major contributor to his.
• 12:32
  Brenda: you know, struggle along with a couple of other things.
• 12:37
  Brenda: But, but mainly, you know, our divorce was, was really significant.
• 12:41
  Brenda: And I obviously did not know that because he didn't show for a few years that that had completely imploded his world.
• 12:50
  Brenda: So I think now Because at the time I didn't have any of these tools.
• 12:55
  Brenda: Like we were just saying I had no skills.
• 12:57
  Brenda: I didn't have good communication skills Totally conflict averse.
• 13:01
  Brenda: So I think if I would have handled things differently Would he potentially not have gone down this?
• 13:08
  Brenda: path and all of this would have happened, which is kind of like the Chinese farmer story, right?
• 13:14
  Brenda: Of the maybes.
• 13:16
  Brenda: If you haven't, if you haven't listened I'll put it in the show notes.
• 13:20
  Brenda: There's an episode with Dina Cannizzaro.
• 13:23
  Brenda: Our director of education that we did on the Chinese farmer.
• 13:27
  Brenda: So yeah, maybe you can find it.
• 13:30
  Brenda: So I, you know, I do like, I don't, I don't beat myself up over it and I don't ruminate on it, but I do kind of think, man, if I had had better communication skills, if I had talked to my kids about why we were getting divorced instead of just trying to like smooth it all over and everything's happy, happy, and you know, we're okay and not realizing, oh my gosh, my kids entire lives just fell apart, you know.
• 13:57
  Brenda: Right.
• 13:58
  Cathy: Right.
• 13:58
  Brenda: So I do think about that.
• 14:00
  Brenda: And I think, you know, we hear this from the moms in our community, which is we do spend quite a bit of time on the what ifs.
• 14:06
  Brenda: What if this?
• 14:07
  Brenda: And what if I had done that?
• 14:08
  Brenda: And what if I hadn't done this?
• 14:09
  Brenda: And what if I had not traveled so much?
• 14:11
  Brenda: Or what if I had worked?
• 14:12
  Brenda: Or what if I hadn't worked?
• 14:13
  Brenda: You know?
• 14:15
  Brenda: And you can't make yourself crazy.
• 14:16
  Brenda: So I don't make myself crazy about it, but I do wonder about that.
• 14:22
  Brenda: And I guess then it just makes me want to help other people even more.
• 14:25
  Brenda: Cause it's like, Oh, if we can help you learn how to communicate better, have these hard conversations that you think are just going to kill you.
• 14:34
  Brenda: And then you realize, Oh.
• 14:35
  Brenda: No, I was just pretty uncomfortable there for a few minutes.
• 14:38
  Brenda: You know, it's like that's, that's something I think about.
• 14:42
  Brenda: So yeah.
• 14:44
  Cathy: Yeah.
• 14:45
  Cathy: Wow.
• 14:46
  Cathy: Well, I would say one of the questions that I ask myself occasionally, not a lot, but you know it does come up is what if I had taken their substance use a little more seriously?
• 15:00
  Cathy: Cause I spent a lot of time And my husband and I, we both did this, you know, well, this is normal behavior.
• 15:08
  Cathy: This is, you know, and I kept saying that over and over.
• 15:13
  Cathy: I mean, that went on for years, honestly.
• 15:16
  Cathy: And I also know that oh my gosh, my kids were wonderful at.
• 15:22
  Cathy: Communicating untruths.
• 15:26
  Cathy: That's a very good way to put it.
• 15:27
  Cathy: Also known as, they were amazing liars, you know.
• 15:30
  Cathy: And so, in realizing, you know, this kind of conversation came up today in our community, actually.
• 15:35
  Cathy: And it was really that, you know, you take a time to look back.
• 15:41
  Cathy: at that time and think, if I had done things differently, you know, what would it have looked like for all of us?
• 15:50
  Cathy: And also, you know, you kind of beat yourself up over the head.
• 15:53
  Cathy: I often say it took five bricks to my head before I finally, you know, had to say, Oh my gosh, these kids need help.
• 16:01
  Cathy: So yes, I do ask myself that question and then I answer it sometimes.
• 16:06
  Cathy: I think, well, maybe I would have started my own recovery earlier, you know, my son has said to me, mom, if you tried to do anything when I was really young, I don't think it would have had as much impact.
• 16:19
  Cathy: So you know, that was.
• 16:22
  Cathy: Kind of interesting because I think, you know, that really is just saying, like, he needed to go through what he went through to, you know, really.
• 16:32
  Cathy: be strong in his recovery journey.
• 16:34
  Brenda: Right.
• 16:35
  Cathy: And so and, and I appreciate his feedback on that, you know, so, but anyway, yeah, that was the question.
• 16:41
  Cathy: I, I was doing the best I could at the time.
• 16:44
  Cathy: 100%. With what I knew, right?
• 16:46
  Brenda: Absolutely.
• 16:48
  Brenda: Absolutely.
• 16:48
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 16:48
  Brenda: I didn't have a long lead up.
• 16:51
  Brenda: of, you know, like I just kind of got hit in the face with it by getting a phone call that my son weed at middle school.
• 17:00
  Brenda: And then next thing I knew he was driving to California to buy drugs.
• 17:03
  Brenda: So it was like very, ours was a little bit more like in your face sudden.
• 17:07
  Brenda: So we didn't have sort of all that, that little, not lull, but you know, the more like, Gentle lead up to a bigger round section.
• 17:15
  Brenda: You
• 17:15
  Cathy: didn't, you didn't have that rollercoaster climb, you know, like that tick, tick, tick, tick as it goes up the rollercoaster hill.
• 17:22
  Cathy: Somebody just zipped
• 17:23
  Brenda: me to the top and then let me drop.
• 17:26
  Brenda: It was really, really shocking and sudden.
• 17:29
  Brenda: So yeah.
• 17:30
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 17:30
  Brenda: But you know, isn't that interesting?
• 17:32
  Brenda: Like we all have such different experiences.
• 17:34
  Brenda: Sometimes people go for years and don't know that something's going on.
• 17:39
  Brenda: And I think, you know, if that's you, I would.
• 17:42
  Brenda: Give yourself a lot of grace because we have so many members who are, you know, brilliant, brilliant people and they continue to beat themselves up.
• 17:53
  Brenda: How did I not see this?
• 17:54
  Brenda: How did I not know this was going on with my child?
• 17:57
  Brenda: Right.
• 17:58
  Brenda: And you can, you can just feel so guilty, but like you said, they're the most resourceful, the most.
• 18:04
  Brenda: like amazing at wiggling around consequences and hiding things.
• 18:12
  Brenda: And, you know, if you're like, why would you be on the lookout?
• 18:16
  Brenda: Why would you be suspecting of that?
• 18:18
  Brenda: So,
• 18:19
  Cathy: right.
• 18:19
  Cathy: And that makes sense.
• 18:20
  Cathy: Right.
• 18:21
  Cathy: What we know about craft, you'll do anything to, you know, do what it takes to get that feeling so that you don't have to, you know, Uh, face those feelings or whatever, you know, your, whatever the challenges you have as a young person going through it.
• 18:38
  Cathy: So
• 18:38
  Brenda: yeah.
• 18:39
  Brenda: Anyway.
• 18:39
  Brenda: Okay.
• 18:40
  Brenda: So another question that I asked myself, even though my son is in long term recovery is what kind of what does the future hold for him?
• 18:51
  Brenda: Because AA guy.
• 18:54
  Brenda: He does not, like, actively work a, you know, an AA program or something like that.
• 19:01
  Brenda: He has his own, you know, you know, my son, he has his own, I think he has his own entire program in his brain.
• 19:07
  Brenda: He
• 19:10
  Cathy: probably does, and it's a great one,
• 19:12
  Brenda: it's
• 19:13
  Cathy: working.
• 19:13
  Brenda: It's working, it's totally working, but I, I tend to fall into that you know, it's kind of like, well, AA is the.
• 19:22
  Brenda: you know, like you have to be an AA or otherwise you're going to relapse at some point in life.
• 19:27
  Brenda: And, and that just, you know, sometimes that's on, on play in the back of my brain and I have zero reason to be worried or anything like that.
• 19:37
  Brenda: Like if anything, every.
• 19:39
  Brenda: Day and time were together.
• 19:41
  Brenda: He just shows me how much how completely solid he is in his recovery But you know that that's a question is like, yeah, what does it look like for somebody to to?
• 19:52
  Brenda: Live, you know, he's young.
• 19:53
  Brenda: He's 27.
• 19:55
  Brenda: It's got a lot of years ahead of him There's going to be a lot of heartbreak and pain and a lot of good also, right, but nobody gets through life from 27 to whenever you leave this earth without some struggle, right?
• 20:11
  Brenda: So I think about that a little bit, you know, is that mandatory?
• 20:16
  Brenda: So yeah, probably the last thing I need to worry about.
• 20:21
  Brenda: I think so.
• 20:21
  Brenda: I
• 20:22
  Cathy: think, I think he banked it all in, you know, at that one Easter weekend.
• 20:30
  Brenda: Well, he definitely got the message.
• 20:33
  Brenda: Let's put it that way.
• 20:34
  Brenda: He got the message.
• 20:35
  Brenda: And he, I'll have to look, I don't gosh, I shouldn't look up these episodes.
• 20:40
  Brenda: Uh, we'll put in the show notes the episode I did with him recently.
• 20:44
  Brenda: Uh, just some, you know, uh, conversation points that we have with each other.
• 20:50
  Brenda: And he really said, you know, it was that it was realizing, Oh, these drugs are going to take me down.
• 20:58
  Brenda: They have, they did take me down somehow lived.
• 21:01
  Brenda: But yeah, so it's, uh, yeah, it's not, it's not something that I, again, it doesn't keep me up at night.
• 21:08
  Brenda: I don't ruminate on it, but it it's, it's a little bit, you know, on the track in the back of my brain.
• 21:15
  Cathy: Absolutely.
• 21:17
  Cathy: Well, I would say along with that one kind of parallel, my two kids are really big into the AA program and, and work a lot of the, you know, that, that recovery their sponsors and they have sponsies and so.
• 21:35
  Cathy: It's always been kind of in the back of my mind is what is a normal program of recovery look like in AA?
• 21:43
  Cathy: And I was brand new to it, you know, where when my son joined the program nine years ago, I didn't really know much about it.
• 21:53
  Cathy: And I, I did, uh, actually.
• 21:56
  Cathy: get invited by a girlfriend to do a 12 step class.
• 22:00
  Cathy: And so I did that for the Al Anon portion of it.
• 22:04
  Cathy: And it was, it was really interesting.
• 22:06
  Cathy: And wow, eye opening on how difficult it was to work the 12 steps.
• 22:12
  Cathy: Uh, I will say that.
• 22:14
  Cathy: And I remember I was talking to my son once in his early recovery and.
• 22:21
  Cathy: Oh, I just love, I bring this up a lot because I thought it was so really, a really neat thing that he said to me and he said, mom, cause I had asked him about his meeting.
• 22:30
  Cathy: He'd come home from a meeting.
• 22:31
  Cathy: He was living with us at the time and I asked him what his meeting was like and I just was Kind of being a mom, I really wanted to know more about it and, you know, full disclosure, I wanted to make sure he was doing the work.
• 22:45
  Cathy: Right.
• 22:46
  Cathy: Right?
• 22:47
  Cathy: And I had no right to really do that.
• 22:49
  Cathy: And in a really beautiful and loving way, he said, Mom, I really understand why you're asking me those questions, but with all due respect, my recovery is my recovery.
• 23:00
  Cathy: And I thought, wow, okay, that's great.
• 23:02
  Cathy: And so I really had to take a step aside from that and realized that I could not be in charge of anything my kids are doing in their recovery.
• 23:12
  Cathy: I can't, it's, it's Right?
• 23:14
  Cathy: The whole question of what we can and what we can't control and, you know, and I see that both of my kids have very different recovery journeys in AA, you know my daughter is, they're both very active in it, but in different ways.
• 23:29
  Cathy: And so it's really great to see, and I've come to realize that the question is, there really is no normal quote, quote, unquote, there's no normal recovery in AA.
• 23:41
  Cathy: It's just, everything looks different.
• 23:43
  Cathy: I've heard people that go full stop with all the, you know, sponsors and everything else.
• 23:48
  Cathy: And then I hear people just going to meetings and anyway.
• 23:52
  Cathy: All I know is that I can't control that portion of their recovery, and that's really what it comes down to, but I can, I can.
• 24:00
  Cathy: Do mine.
• 24:01
  Cathy: Uh, and so anyway, yeah, that is a question that comes up, you know, they're not going to that meeting anymore.
• 24:08
  Cathy: Is that okay?
• 24:10
  Cathy: Okay.
• 24:10
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 24:12
  Brenda: Well, and we've had a couple of recovery AMAs on in the community and.
• 24:18
  Brenda: That's asking me anything.
• 24:19
  Brenda: I don't know.
• 24:19
  Brenda: Is that still a thing?
• 24:21
  Brenda: I don't know.
• 24:21
  Brenda: We might be dating ourselves right now.
• 24:22
  Brenda: We might be really dating ourselves.
• 24:24
  Brenda: The point is, we had, uh, we've had groups of young people in recovery who come and answer questions and It really is very interesting that everybody's looks different.
• 24:37
  Brenda: Everybody's recovery looks different.
• 24:39
  Brenda: The kids even, like you said, both your kids are in AA and, and they look very different.
• 24:44
  Brenda: Mine's not, and he's super solid and has his own, you know, I know he has, he has his own guidelines within his brain and in his life that he has set up for himself.
• 24:56
  Brenda: And so I think.
• 24:59
  Brenda: That is hard because of course we care and we're concerned, and there's also a certain level of like, oh no, I cannot go through that again, you know, like,
• 25:09
  Cathy: we gotta
• 25:09
  Brenda: make sure that this does not happen again because I can't make it, and that's where we have to really focus on our own recovery, and that's actually the, the next.
• 25:19
  Brenda: Question that I was going to cover, uh, and I actually have an interesting story to go along with this one and talking about my own recovery.
• 25:28
  Brenda: I went on vacation recently and we were, my husband and I were kayaking and my two adult kids died.
• 25:35
  Brenda: Two of our four adult kids came with us, which is like, and we didn't even pay for them.
• 25:40
  Brenda: Right.
• 25:40
  Brenda: Like they paid to come.
• 25:41
  Brenda: So that was amazing.
• 25:42
  Brenda: So we're out kayaking and we're hoping to see whales.
• 25:46
  Brenda: And so we're, we're, uh, Matt just off of Maui.
• 25:49
  Brenda: And so.
• 25:50
  Brenda: We're kayaking out, you know, and it's a beautiful day and you're laughing and talking and the guide is kind of out in front of us, you know, a little ways.
• 26:02
  Brenda: And we get pretty far out, like we're, cause we're trying to see a whale.
• 26:06
  Brenda: So you have to be pretty far out.
• 26:07
  Brenda: And there were two other boats with us and they were off and like some other way far away.
• 26:14
  Brenda: And the guide was very interesting.
• 26:16
  Brenda: He said, Hmm, if you wanted to see whales, Wouldn't you stick with the guy who like does this twice a day, every day for the last six years.
• 26:26
  Brenda: And they're expecting to see whales and they're nowhere near their guide.
• 26:30
  Brenda: Oh, wow.
• 26:30
  Brenda: And I was like, that's pretty interesting.
• 26:33
  Brenda: And I'm like, I'm sticking right next to you.
• 26:35
  Brenda: I'm just going to stay right here.
• 26:36
  Brenda: So we did have this most amazing whale experiences, gigantic humpback whale jumps straight out of the ocean and does a flip and lands right in like.
• 26:50
  Brenda: It's one of those heart stopping moments.
• 26:51
  Brenda: You're like, did that actually just happen?
• 26:53
  Brenda: So everything's so amazing.
• 26:56
  Brenda: And then we had to get back to, you know, back to shore.
• 27:01
  Brenda: And we were headed straight into the wind.
• 27:04
  Brenda: And of course I was super tired because we'd gone super far out and I don't do a lot of kayaking, I will say.
• 27:09
  Brenda: So my arms are strong, but they're not like super kayak strong.
• 27:14
  Brenda: And so we're going back into the wind.
• 27:17
  Brenda: And I'm thinking, I am not going to make it.
• 27:20
  Brenda: You know, luckily my husband's in the boat and so he's, he's paddling and that allowed me to take a little bit of a break, but then I would start again and I was so tired and I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm scared.
• 27:31
  Brenda: I don't know if I'm going to make it.
• 27:33
  Brenda: You know, what if we're out here and we can't get back or whatever with all the whales and the guide is up there and he's like, you know, do this, like turn your paddle.
• 27:43
  Brenda: Like he's trying to help me.
• 27:45
  Brenda: You know, do it better, like better form.
• 27:48
  Brenda: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:50
  Brenda: And he said, you know, like push the paddle at the top, don't pull from the bottom, like do the pushing from the top.
• 27:56
  Brenda: And I was thinking about it later.
• 27:58
  Brenda: We did make it back to shore clearly.
• 28:01
  Brenda: And I was very sore the next day, but I was thinking, you know, that's so like when I think about my recovery and sometimes, you know, life is great now and I'm not worried about him every day.
• 28:10
  Brenda: And you know, you can get a little distracted by all the wonderful things, which is great.
• 28:17
  Brenda: But you also then can just slack a little bit on your own recovery practices and you can kind of take things for granted.
• 28:25
  Brenda: And then when you are heading into the wind, man, you're like, Oh, this is hard.
• 28:31
  Brenda: And you have to rely on those guides and you have to rely on the guy behind you in the boat.
• 28:36
  Brenda: Who's, you know, Giving you a little bit of a break and it was really, it really made me think a little bit because you know, when you are in a good place, eight years later, you're not thinking every single day, you know, what am I doing for my recovery?
• 28:51
  Brenda: And I just don't ever want to take that for granted.
• 28:55
  Cathy: Wow.
• 28:55
  Cathy: I, that, what a great story by the way.
• 28:58
  Cathy: I've been where you've been in a, in a kayak into the wind.
• 29:02
  Cathy: It is so difficult and scary.
• 29:05
  Cathy: You're right about that.
• 29:06
  Cathy: Cause you do feel, am I ever going to make it back to shore?
• 29:10
  Cathy: So I'm glad, I'm glad the hubs was there to help with that.
• 29:14
  Brenda: Me too.
• 29:15
  Brenda: I was very glad, and the guide who was, you know, trying to give me some techniques to, you know, use my paddles better, and I, and I think that's what we do, too, at Hope's Dream, right?
• 29:26
  Brenda: We're, we're saying, oh, you know, if you hold your paddle a little bit more rotated, Like, AKA, you use the information sandwich or you use, you know, surf communication skills.
• 29:39
  Brenda: Like, those are the little tweaks that you can do that makes such a huge difference.
• 29:44
  Brenda: But you've got to be in a position where you're able to hear that and accept it and take the advice and test it out.
• 29:52
  Brenda: So
• 29:52
  Cathy: absolutely.
• 29:53
  Cathy: And you've got your cheerleading team there.
• 29:55
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 29:56
  Cathy: Well that I've loved that question.
• 29:57
  Cathy: Yeah.
• 29:58
  Cathy: How vigilant are you?
• 29:59
  Cathy: Because I know for me.
• 30:02
  Cathy: And our family, yes, it, it kind of all kind of came to a head nine years ago, but the journey wasn't always, you know, lovely after that.
• 30:11
  Cathy: And You know, I would say that, uh, when I first started learning about my own recovery and doing the things that I needed to do it's interesting because yeah, you're right.
• 30:25
  Cathy: You do get really distracted by things.
• 30:27
  Cathy: And I know for me that I can always tell when I'm kind of off my game, you know, when, when the mind is.
• 30:36
  Cathy: spiraling.
• 30:37
  Cathy: And you're thinking about, you know, your loved ones a little too much, you know, in, in the sense of, is everything okay?
• 30:46
  Cathy: What if everything isn't okay?
• 30:48
  Cathy: And you're really kind of going down.
• 30:50
  Cathy: You're just spiraling is, is what we call it.
• 30:53
  Cathy: Right.
• 30:53
  Cathy: And you're not doing, you're really not doing your own work in terms of.
• 30:58
  Cathy: what you need to do.
• 31:00
  Cathy: That to me has always been my sign, you know, let's let's correct ourselves and get on the path again.
• 31:08
  Cathy: And I know for me, that happened, you know, and A few years ago it, I realized that, you know, Oh, I, I got to really correct myself and get on the path.
• 31:19
  Cathy: And it was super helpful because there came a time when things, the roller coaster was on the downward slope and how I was so resilient.
• 31:32
  Cathy: And I realized it was because of the work that I had done, you know, and.
• 31:38
  Cathy: That self correcting and really paying attention to what was going on.
• 31:42
  Cathy: So yeah, I, I love that.
• 31:45
  Cathy: I love that.
• 31:46
  Brenda: It's huge.
• 31:47
  Brenda: It really is.
• 31:47
  Brenda: And, and I think you adapt over time, right?
• 31:50
  Brenda: So when, when, you know, if your kids knew in those wobbly legs, like I always think of the giraffe, the little baby giraffe with super long legs and they're like wobbling all over the place.
• 32:01
  Brenda: place.
• 32:01
  Brenda: Like that's that early recovery.
• 32:03
  Brenda: And you're just like, Oh my gosh, are they going to tip over or not?
• 32:07
  Brenda: And you know, so things do look different obviously eight years later, you know, a year later too or whatever.
• 32:13
  Brenda: So it's not that you're going to be on the same level.
• 32:17
  Brenda: But you definitely need to keep some of the, the practices that really work for you because there is so much PTSD, you know, it's, it's a real thing.
• 32:27
  Brenda: And we try to always talk about that in our community is like, I hate it when I hear a mom say it's almost like I have PTSD.
• 32:35
  Brenda: Like, uh, you do.
• 32:38
  Brenda: You absolutely do.
• 32:39
  Brenda: And so it can be those things.
• 32:42
  Brenda: Something happened the other day, I'm trying to remember what it was that really set me off.
• 32:47
  Brenda: I can't remember if it was a cologne, you know, like it's one of those things that just set me off and I, and I had my heart was beating faster and I was like, what is this?
• 32:58
  Brenda: And instead of going into a spiral and the whole, you know, that whole thing, I caught myself and I was like, okay.
• 33:06
  Brenda: And I did a little inventory.
• 33:08
  Brenda: I'm like, Do I have like, do I really need to be worried?
• 33:12
  Brenda: You know, why is this happening?
• 33:15
  Brenda: Why does this you know, and I just gave myself a lot of grace and I was like, of course You're gonna have that reaction.
• 33:21
  Brenda: You had this Horrific thing happen.
• 33:24
  Brenda: You have PTSD from it You know, I think we're all trying to work on it, but it's real, so you gotta keep up with it.
• 33:31
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 33:31
  Brenda: Otherwise, those things can just derail you
• 33:35
  Cathy: instantly.
• 33:35
  Cathy: You absolutely can.
• 33:37
  Cathy: You absolutely can.
• 33:37
  Cathy: And I think, right, what we often say when these things happen too is, is it true, right?
• 33:43
  Cathy: Is it true?
• 33:44
  Cathy: That's such a great question.
• 33:46
  Cathy: Mm hmm.
• 33:46
  Cathy: And, you know, and also I'd love to ask myself, is it better today than it was?
• 33:52
  Cathy: The first time this happened, almost inevitably, the question has always been, yes, it is better.
• 33:58
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 33:59
  Cathy: Uh, you know, even yes, relapse happens, right?
• 34:03
  Cathy: I often think to myself too, my kid's still alive, right?
• 34:07
  Cathy: When these things happen.
• 34:09
  Cathy: So you know, there's lots of extremes here and, and.
• 34:12
  Cathy: But yes, give yourself a ton of grace.
• 34:15
  Cathy: This is not the easy journey.
• 34:17
  Cathy: This is why if you join us over here, you could be part of the SEAL team parents to really help yourself on this journey.
• 34:24
  Cathy: And yeah, yeah.
• 34:26
  Brenda: Yep.
• 34:26
  Brenda: Be, be one of us.
• 34:28
  Brenda: It's, you know, we always say we run the club that we wish nobody needed and nobody wants to join, which is a very weird thing, however.
• 34:39
  Brenda: It's the best place to be, you know, I was just chatting with a mom yesterday.
• 34:44
  Brenda: She sent me a note, uh, in our little, you know, a little chat in, in the community.
• 34:49
  Brenda: And she said, you're not going to believe this, but I just had a full circle moment.
• 34:53
  Brenda: And I said, Oh, you know what happened?
• 34:55
  Brenda: And she and her son went to the same residential program that my son did in Utah.
• 35:01
  Brenda: And, and he really struggled.
• 35:04
  Brenda: I mean, he's, he's been struggling for a long time and he.
• 35:10
  Brenda: Uh, they live in Asheville.
• 35:12
  Brenda: And so he was doing, I think, okay.
• 35:16
  Brenda: And then when the they had that huge storm and, right, the whole town was gone.
• 35:23
  Brenda: I mean, basically like Asheville just got demolished
• 35:27
  Cathy: and it
• 35:27
  Brenda: really, really impacted him.
• 35:30
  Brenda: Well, it turns out he just got a job.
• 35:33
  Brenda: At the residential treatment program that he was at, that my son was also at different times.
• 35:41
  Brenda: They don't know each other, but, but, you know, she was like, you just think it's never going to end.
• 35:46
  Brenda: And I, and I, I'm going to try and do a family episode with her.
• 35:49
  Brenda: So this is a little, a little sneak peek of what that episode will be about, but it was just so beautiful.
• 35:55
  Brenda: We were celebrating, we had the little like, you know, emojis with the.
• 35:59
  Brenda: You know, little streamers and the happy hat doing a happy dance.
• 36:04
  Brenda: And yeah, it's like, Oh my gosh, you just think it's never going to end.
• 36:10
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 36:11
  Brenda: And then it, and then something like that happens.
• 36:13
  Brenda: And so anyway, it was, it was super special.
• 36:16
  Brenda: So yeah, I'm, I'm trying to get her to do a, a family story because we don't hear enough of those stories.
• 36:22
  Brenda: Right.
• 36:22
  Brenda: Like, yeah, they do make it out and they, and they learn a lot from it and they're just.
• 36:28
  Brenda: Such beautiful humans.
• 36:29
  Brenda: I mean, people in recovery are just the most beautiful people ever.
• 36:34
  Cathy: Oh, it's just, it's so great.
• 36:35
  Cathy: And you know, it's like you see your kid, you know, in that healthy way.
• 36:40
  Cathy: And you, we often say like, Oh, I remember them when they were this, right.
• 36:44
  Cathy: And then you see them.
• 36:47
  Cathy: On the other side.
• 36:48
  Cathy: And, oh my gosh, it's better than you can even imagine.
• 36:51
  Cathy: So it's just, yes, it's just really, really exciting and wonderful to see that healthy, healthy families moving forward.
• 37:01
  Cathy: And, oh, I'm excited to hear that story.
• 37:03
  Cathy: I love, I love the recovery episodes that you've been doing with families.
• 37:08
  Cathy: It's just, Those, those are great.
• 37:10
  Brenda: It's so important to hear, they, they really are.
• 37:13
  Brenda: So not just for the hope of it, but, but you know, how people are navigating it and what, what obstacles do they come up against and what were some of their turning points, you know?
• 37:23
  Brenda: So yeah, important, but all right, well.
• 37:27
  Brenda: That's a wrap, I think.
• 37:29
  Cathy: I think that's good.
• 37:30
  Cathy: I, that was fun.
• 37:31
  Cathy: Yeah.
• 37:31
  Brenda: All right.
• 37:32
  Brenda: We always
• 37:32
  Cathy: have a good time.
• 37:33
  Cathy: We'll see you next time.
• 37:35
  Cathy: See you later, Brenna.
• 37:37
  Brenda: Okay, my friend.
• 37:37
  Brenda: If you want the transcript or show notes and resources from this episode, just go to HopeStreamCommunity.
• 37:43
  Brenda: org and click on podcast.
• 37:45
  Brenda: That'll take you to all things podcast related, including the full library.
• 37:51
  Brenda: a search feature if you're looking for something specific, and also playlists where we have grouped together episodes on things like craft, recovery stories, solo episodes, siblings.
• 38:03
  Brenda: We even have a start here playlist if you're new.
• 38:06
  Brenda: Those are super helpful, so be sure to check them out.
• 38:10
  Brenda: I also want to let you know about a free ebook you can download if you're feeling anxious and confused about how to approach your child's substance The book is called Worried Sick, a compassionate guide for parents of teens and young adults misusing drugs and alcohol.
• 38:25
  Brenda: And it'll introduce you to ways that you can rebuild connection and relationship with your child versus distance and let them hit rock bottom.
• 38:34
  Brenda: It is a game changer.
• 38:36
  Brenda: It's totally free.
• 38:37
  Brenda: Just go to HopeStreamCommunity.
• 38:39
  Brenda: org forward slash worried.
• 38:41
  Brenda: To download that.
• 38:43
  Brenda: You are amazing.
• 38:45
  Brenda: You are such a rock star, a super elite level parent.
• 38:49
  Brenda: It's truly an honor to be here with you.
• 38:51
  Brenda: And please know you are not doing this alone.
• 38:54
  Brenda: You've got this tribe and you will be okay.
• 38:58
  Brenda: You'll make it through this season and when you do you are going to be stronger and more resilient than you ever thought possible.
• 39:06
  Brenda: I'm sending all my love and light.
• 39:08
  Brenda: And I'll meet you right back here next week.
• 40:00
  Brenda: Hey, there are you feeling stuck in a cycle of drama and arguments with your child worried sick about their substance use?
• 40:08
  Brenda: I have been there and I want you to know there's hope.
• 40:11
  Brenda: This podcast is just one piece of the curated and trustworthy resources and solutions we offer for parents.
• 40:18
  Brenda: We recognize you need emotional support and a solid plan for moving forward, making positive change in your family.
• 40:26
  Brenda: So in addition to connecting with other parents and feeling like you're part of something bigger We also teach you practical skills and strategies to dial down the drama and diffuse those heated moments We step you through the evidence based craft approach a game changer that can help you invite your child to accept help Without resorting to tough love or waiting for rock bottom We have so much more than the podcast waiting for you head over to hope stream community org To tap into all our resources and become part of the HopeStream family in our private online community.
• 41:03
  Brenda: Remember, you are not alone in this.
• 41:06
  Brenda: We're doing it together.
• 41:07
  Brenda: Now, let's get back to the conversation.