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Thug Drugs: Psychedelics | Pain Pod · Pharmacy Podcast Network

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: You are listening to the global network of podcasters dedicated
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: to the pharmacy profession.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Pharmacy podcast Network. This is the Pain Pod.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: You want to see pain, look at me?
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Pain Pod, the podcast for all things
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  Speaker 1: pain management, hosted by.
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  Speaker 2: The pain Guy, doctor Mark Growley.
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  Speaker 1: We'll be collaborating with numerous pain management experts, talking about
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  Speaker 1: substance usage disorders, the latest treatment modalities, and most important
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: important focusing on the pain, about morvations as leading providers
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: of pain care. And now here's our host, a man
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  Speaker 1: wanted in all fifty states, a suburban city like Mountain
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: man without the beard, from the hills of West Virginia
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  Speaker 1: and certified in weapons of mass destruction response.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, doctor Mark Hobly, All right, welcome back everyone to
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  Speaker 2: the Pain Pod. Hey maybe this is your first time,
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: by the way, welcome aboard, But odds are you're like
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: the many within pain pod Nation, coming back for a
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: taste of a little bit more. Well here today we
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: have a little bit of a treat We're going to
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  Speaker 2: kick back into ours regular series that we've been doing
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  Speaker 2: for well years now, the series known as Thug Drugs.
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  Speaker 2: So we'll basically be going over you know, those other substances,
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  Speaker 2: you know, particularly within healthcare, but especially within pharmacy. You
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  Speaker 2: know folks being known as medication experts. Well, what about
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  Speaker 2: those other things, the substances of use, the things in
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  Speaker 2: the other supply chains dun dunne, illegal drugs, elicit drugs,
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  Speaker 2: sometimes medications as well too. You know, it's it's all
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  Speaker 2: about the dose, and it's all about the mechanisms as
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  Speaker 2: well as far as what makes a substance a medicine
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  Speaker 2: or something else. And you know, sometimes you hear it
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  Speaker 2: differently or see it differently, which really kind of primes
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  Speaker 2: the pod here for our discussion today on thug drugs,
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  Speaker 2: psychedelics or maybe you know them as hallucinogens. That was
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  Speaker 2: like the old school way, the og way of classifying things.
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  Speaker 2: But you know, here today we're gonna jump off, you know,
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  Speaker 2: be first and head first, everything first into psychedelics. So
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  Speaker 2: you know I mentioned you know, also known as hallucinogens.
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  Speaker 2: So you know that the word itself actually well it
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  Speaker 2: comes from Latin yours truly. I don't have a strong
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  Speaker 2: Latin background. Maybe you do, but it comes from a lucinaire,
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  Speaker 2: you know, wandering in the mind and talking foolishly and whatnot. Right,
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  Speaker 2: you know, of notes, hallucinations from hallucinogens or psychedelics are
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  Speaker 2: usually visual. You know, Auditory hallucinations are usually associated with schizophrenia.
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  Speaker 2: It's a little bit different there. So we're usually thinking
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  Speaker 2: visual for psychedelics right now, since we're covering some of
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  Speaker 2: the basics. First, got some terminology as well. Maybe you've
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  Speaker 2: heard these before, but some terms that talk about you know,
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  Speaker 2: substances and you know what the body does or how
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  Speaker 2: you know the body reacts to these substances, these psychedelics, right,
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  Speaker 2: so you know, those psychoactive substances that produce experiences that
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  Speaker 2: are kind of like a oneness or openness, emotional openness,
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  Speaker 2: emotional communion. Those are known as impact pathogens or intactogens. Okay,
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: empathogen or intactogen. Whereas one more one more term here
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  Speaker 2: for us would be in theogen. Now this one you
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  Speaker 2: might be able to guess with the theo like theology,
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  Speaker 2: but in theogen that's a psychoactive substance that's usually utilized
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  Speaker 2: within a culturally sanctioned visionary experience, you know, whether ritual
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  Speaker 2: or religious context. You name it and it's in theogen, Okay,
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: all right, we got those couple of terms where you know,
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  Speaker 2: that's your word of day calendar taken care of for
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  Speaker 2: like three days, right there. Now I kind of alluded
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  Speaker 2: to there. With psychedelics, it's you know, the dose and
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  Speaker 2: the mechanisms, right, So let's jump into the mechanism side. Now,
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  Speaker 2: each substance, each medication, of course, is going to have
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  Speaker 2: its unique and more granular mechanism of action or how
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  Speaker 2: the thing works in the body us human bodies anyway, Well,
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  Speaker 2: generally speaking, for psychedelics, they're actually similar in an opposite manner.
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  Speaker 2: Let that one kind of reverberate in your mind for
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  Speaker 2: a second to our atypical ana psychotic medications. You might
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  Speaker 2: be thinking, whoa, that's like polar opposite, right, Well, yes,
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  Speaker 2: but same ballpark. Okay, So when you look at our
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  Speaker 2: atypical ana psychotic medications, the first generations, those are antagonists,
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  Speaker 2: they block dopamine receptors, whereas the second generation atypical anti
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  Speaker 2: psychotics are also antagonists at the dopamine receptor, but then
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  Speaker 2: also antagonists at these selective serotonin typically two receptors as well.
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  Speaker 2: So there's the ballpark dopamine and selective serotonin typically two receptors. Right. Conversely, though,
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  Speaker 2: are psychedelics in general really going on a limb here?
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  Speaker 2: They work at the exact opposite way in the same ballpark.
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  Speaker 2: So at those same dopamine and selective serotonin receptors, they're agonists,
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  Speaker 2: they're provocative, they create the effects. So same ballpark, those
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  Speaker 2: dopamine and s to serotonin receptors, but working exactly opposite
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  Speaker 2: in the big picture there. Okay, Now that's really important
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  Speaker 2: to keep in mind for you know, going over psychedelics
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  Speaker 2: in general. All right, now that we've got the ballpark
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  Speaker 2: laid out, let's see who's on the team. Okay, Now,
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  Speaker 2: when talking about psychedelics or whose synogens, I'll typically group
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  Speaker 2: them into five classes, genres, groupings, you name it. Think
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  Speaker 2: of a chart and these are the columns. Okay. I
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  Speaker 2: actually like that in various presentations on these topics as well.
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  Speaker 2: It's amazing how many organizations are really concentrating on psychedelics
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  Speaker 2: these days for educating, particularly healthcare professionals, but really everyone
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  Speaker 2: you know, all across our country. Really I digress. So
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  Speaker 2: jumping into psychedelics, five main groups, at least paying guy
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  Speaker 2: would say, right, you got your belodona alkaloids. You got
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  Speaker 2: your dissosive anesthetics. We're usually a little bit more privy DeVos.
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  Speaker 2: You got the trip to me which are serotonin like.
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  Speaker 2: You got the finethelomines, the dopamine like compounds, and then peparizines. Okay, Now,
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  Speaker 2: as far as belladonna alkaloids, we're looking at things like
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  Speaker 2: nightshade yes, the plant mandreaate, root, groot, i am groot root, jimsonweed,
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  Speaker 2: you name it. Lots of natural stuff going on there. Right.
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  Speaker 2: As far as the dissociate of anesthetics, you guessed it's
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  Speaker 2: special K ketamine, PCP, MEXI more to common all these,
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  Speaker 2: by the way, trip to means though serotonin like substances,
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  Speaker 2: things like lsds, philocybin, the old magic mushrooms, d MT
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  Speaker 2: or die methyl trip to mean a yahuasca component of that,
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: of course, might be thinking of a quarterback by now,
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  Speaker 2: more to come later. The finethyl means the dopamine like compounds.
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  Speaker 2: Got things like bromo, dragonfly mascaline to CB. By now
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: you're thinking, where's again these words from? There's more n
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  Speaker 2: bomb Yeah, nut meg, whoa nut meg? Yeah? Thanks Giving time?
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  Speaker 2: Turkey day here in America. Hm. Interesting there, it's all
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: about the dose folks, I get the substitute amphetamines, things
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  Speaker 2: like methylene, dioxy, methamphetamine, ecstasy, cathinones, and then that last
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  Speaker 2: group being the paparizines. Lots of just structural changes in
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  Speaker 2: benzol and fennel groups overall. So let's dive first into those.
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  Speaker 2: That first group I mentioned the belodona alkaloids, so night shead,
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  Speaker 2: you know, you're thinking the flowers, even things like petunias
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  Speaker 2: that are out there. There was also deadly night shede
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  Speaker 2: back in their Renaissance era in the Middle Ages. Though
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: check this out. You were today years old when you
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: heard this one. At least I'd be willing to bet
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: as a non betting man. Back in the Middle Ages,
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  Speaker 2: there was a witch's salve and a flying ointment involved
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  Speaker 2: a tropa belladonna, and that's where we get the depictions of,
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: you know, for Halloween times with witches on broomsticks. Go figure,
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: there's more to that story, but we'll leave it at
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  Speaker 2: that for now, at least in the pain pod. Right now,
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  Speaker 2: as far as the night shade alkaloids, what besides the
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  Speaker 2: witches on brooms, what are we talking about here? So
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  Speaker 2: there's a lot of different things that include night shade alkaloids. Food.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: You're talking things like tomatoes, potatoes, eggplant peppers. Yeah, you know,
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  Speaker 2: summertime garden. Of course, medications were thinking some anti colonergics.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: Of course, that's the effects high askamine, scopolamine in case
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: you're on a boat, cruise, ship, you name it. There's
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: also solanine, nicotine, hio. I'm sure we saw that one coming, right,
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: and even cap sayson. So you know, lots of different
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  Speaker 2: things along the way. There One thing I have to
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  Speaker 2: add in this pain guy, Okay, what you just got? Okay,
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  Speaker 2: there's an unfun fact when it comes to night shade alkaloids.
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  Speaker 2: They can contribute to oxalate kidney stones. And if you've
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: listened to some of the previous episodes of the Paint Pod,
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  Speaker 2: you already know my story, right, Yeah, yours surely got
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: blessed with an oxalate kidney stone seven millimeters you know
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  Speaker 2: the size of one of those bullets. Good goaly. But
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  Speaker 2: things like you know, tomatoes, potatoes, egg plant peppers. You're
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  Speaker 2: telling it telling you not to have tomatoes anymore. That's
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: my urologist speaking to me, and I'm just kind of
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  Speaker 2: staring at the guy. Okay, however, I did cut out
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  Speaker 2: salt and all the rest of the gang. Spinach, you're
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  Speaker 2: gone too. But anyways, night shades can come into play there,
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  Speaker 2: and that's something that is painful when it comes to
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  Speaker 2: kidney stones. All right, let's jump further. Mandrake roots. I
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: already you know, famous ones already talked about the Guardians
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: of the Galaxy, Guy Groot. I am Groot. It's literally
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: all the guy says. He's hilarious, He's wonderful. Harry Potter,
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: you know, making a resurgence, the screaming mandrake roots. Those
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: are some of the famous mandrake roots along the way. Okay,
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  Speaker 2: I'll leave it at that for this discussion. Jimsonweed our
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  Speaker 2: last belladonna alkaloid I wanted to cover, so I actually
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: had some of this stuff grown in our backyard when
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: we did a whole patio project in our backyard, just
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: dug everything up and put a lot of concrete out
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: there and other stuff. Right when there was nothing, it
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: was just dirt. Jim we'ed started to grow. It was
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: about a three to four to five foot plant. The
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: flower it flowered, and I said, oh, that's Jimson weed.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: Started taking pictures. You name it told our contractor and
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: he's like, oh, would that be like something you could sell?
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, my gosh, talk about an entrepreneur. Right, well,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: yeah no, But anyways, Jimson weed, you know, it's it's
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: got some history all the way back to colonial times
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: in America. Gets his name from Jamestown, you know, it
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: just became Jimson weed after that. You just say it
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: thirty five times and all of a sudden it sounds
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: like Jimson weed instead of Jamestown weed. But anyways, it's
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: got some scopolamine atropine in it, hence what we're talking
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: about here today. All right, lots of stories with those
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: guys there, but let's jump forward to the dissociative anesthetics
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: and then our grouping of psychedelics. So first up, PCP,
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: ben cyclodine paparidine. You know, let's just call PCP, right,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: how does it work, dopemin reuptake inhibitor, and MDA antagonist,
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: dante colenergic. So it's got a lot going on, right.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: I got some terms that come up if it is combined,
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: So if you got the cannabis or tobacco cigarettes, they're
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: dipped in PCP and then dried. You could call that
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: fry or sherm. Yep. You were probably two to eight
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  Speaker 2: years old when you heard that one, too, right, But
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: lots going on there. One of the biggest things for PCP,
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  Speaker 2: particularly for healthcare professionals, to know, you know, our er specialists.
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  Speaker 2: The symptoms for you know, higher doses spell out the
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: acronym red danes, so rage erythema, red skin, dilated pupils, delusions,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: amnesia and nystagmus, excitation and skin dryness. Okay, you put
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  Speaker 2: that all together and it's red daines. You can just
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  Speaker 2: remember a big red box or something like that, right,
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  Speaker 2: But you know there are various doses overall, so you know,
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  Speaker 2: moderate doses could actually produce analges if not anesthesia, but
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  Speaker 2: the high doses would give convulsions, whereas the higher pun
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: intended recreational doses. That's where you get that you're uh, well,
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: your hallucinations right, all right? Speaking of things that you
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  Speaker 2: know also act as medications, how about special k ketamine?
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: You thought I was talking about a cereal? Right, good golly,
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: Hey who invented breakfast? Doctor Kellogg? Right? Who who knew?
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Good golly I digress again. So ketamine, Uh, you know,
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  Speaker 2: it was first synthesized back in the sixties, approved in
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: the next FDA, approved in the next decade. I was
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  Speaker 2: on the WHO list of Essential Medicines in the eighties,
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: and it became a controlled substance right at the turn
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  Speaker 2: of the century nineteen ninety nine. That is now, as
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: far as how does it work, well, the above an MDA,
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: serotonin orpin ephron dope, meina, particularly opioid scenarios, sodium, calcium channels,
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: nitric oxide. You named literally all the above. Okay. You
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: know there is a term also known as the K hole.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: So higher doses of ketamine could get somebody into the
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: K hole ketamine hole. That's where you'll typically have not
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: just the visual but perhaps even audio hallucinations. It basically
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: becomes that scenario of lights around, but nobody's home right now. Also, though,
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: when you're talking about ketamine, it's in like almost every
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: if not every hospital on this planet. It is used
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: for analgesia as an adjunct typically or depending on the scenario,
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: of course, and then also anesthesia along the way, very
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: different doses. There's international guidelines you know from basically Azra
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: American Society of Regional Anesthesia and Pain Medicine or AZRA
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: that you know, talk about the utilization of ketamine in
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: the healthcare setting overall. When you're looking at analges usually
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: about about zero point one five makes per kig, whereas
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: anesthesia you know quite a bit more one to two
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: mailgrams per kilogram along the way. So there are some
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: specifics force Another little fun fact in a nerdy sense,
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: pharmacology wise, for ketamine, there's also the s n antimer,
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: so the mirror image you know, side s ketamine. It's
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: known as spravado. It's actually have to approved for adults.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: It has a RIMS program for treatment resistant depression, a
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: major depressive disorder with suicidal thoughts and actions. Usually there's
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: also like a indepressant, like an oral indepressant utilized as well.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: So it's a nasal spray. Sounds very easy, but it
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: involves two hour appointments in a clinic and then there's
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: no driving for twenty four hours afterwards. In fact, pharmacies
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: can only dispense that to healthcare settings, not to patients. Okay,
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: but it's just a nasal spray, right, Each single spray
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: or device I should say it contains twenty eight milligrams.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: You know, usually the induction is two of those you know,
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: fifty six milligrams or even eighty four. And then you
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: know that's gonna be twice weekly for the first month,
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: the second month will be once weekly, and then going
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: forward it's either weekly or every two weeks along the way,
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: but again two hour appointments. So that's why we don't
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: hear much about sketemye. Right, all right, what about mesi?
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: You know still you know, within our dissociative anesthetics, so
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: mexi or methox thata meine it works as an NMB
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: antagonist and an ssri together, so it's very similar to ketamine,
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: but you know, basically just a chemical analog along the way.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: So the higher doses would not be the K hole,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: would be the M hole. Go figure, right, all right,
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: we'll leave it at that because we've got a lot
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: of psychedelics to cover, so that let's jump into the
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: trip to means. Those are those that are serotonin like.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: And I'd be remiss if I didn't give a little
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: shout out here to the the you know, the the
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: ogs when it comes to psychedelics, Uh, doctors Alexander Sasha
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: and Anne Shulgan. Okay, they they actually wrote the books. Literally,
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: they're huge. I have them on my bookshelves at home.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: They're really tough to read because they're not just textbook
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: but very chemical textbook, hundreds of pages. But they have
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: pickle and tickle. And you didn't see that one. Come right,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: finethyl means I have known and loved. That's abbreviated to
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: pickle and then trip to means I have known and
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: loved tickle or pih ka L and then a T
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: for the other. Right. So that's a little shout out
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: to the original researchers big time. So let's jump in
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: so LSD. Okay, a couple of basic things here. Actually,
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: so LSD is lysergic acid diethylamide. So lysergic acid is
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: not LSD lysergic acid. It is lysergic acid. LSD is
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: lysergic acid diethylmide. It just adds the diethylmide to a
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: means right, all right, So been around for a while.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Was first synthesized by doctor Hoffman back in nineteen thirty eight.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: About a decade later, started getting utilization in the healthcare setting,
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: and then nineteen sixty eight it became a controlled substance
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: along the way, lots of you know, they usually on blotterers.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: They look like little tiny stamps, but also you know, colorful.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Usually you know, if the young child sees them, Oh,
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: what's the first thing they do? Lick them? Right, that's
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: not good. But lots of different slang along the way.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: You know, LSD is gonna affect serotonin or nephron, dopamine,
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: you name it. It's got lots of different formulations. I
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: talked about those blotters. It could also be gelatin squares,
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: even liquid, or even crystals along the way as well.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: In fact, when you're talking about the crystals, the pure
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: salts are known as tribuumanlescent, meaning that if you shake
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: the little baggie of the crystals the salts, you'll get
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: flashes of white light. How cool. And that's even before
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: the effects of the substance kick in right. Ls is
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: also actually fluorescent the party continues. That means it'll glow
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: blue and white under a UV light. That sounds like
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: a rap song lyric good golly. Anyways, LSD is known
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: for having things like bad trips, that's negative experiences compared
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: to good trips or even flashbacks, So that'll be visual
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: hallucinations months if not years after utilization. It's got a
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: notable side effect of having a metallic taste of note
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: n bomb. We'll touch on that in a hot second.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: Here is actually worse for that metallic taste and tolerance
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: usually disappears after a week or so. All right, after
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: a let's deal, let's jump into magic mushroom psilocybin. Okay,
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of different mushrooms. There's about two hundred
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: different mushroom species that contain psilocybin, but not all of
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: them by far right, because there's many more species of
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: mushrooms out there, of course. Now, as far as the pharmacology,
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: it's you know, psilocybin is actually metabolized. It's active silo
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: sin in our bodies, which is four h O dmt
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: dimethyl trip to me. So think of the four ho
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: group on a dmt die methyl trip to me, which
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: we'll talk about here in a second. Bengers, how does
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: it work. It's a very selective serotonin agonist, very specific.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: Some notable side effects usually pupil dilation and then cardiovascular changes.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: You know, thinking up or down Brady cardio pack. Cardio
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: depends on the day, if it is, and why you know,
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: tolerance typically dissipates quickly, even within days. And on fun fact,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: some people are unusually sensitive to psilocybin, so watch out
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: with those mushrooms. Okay, folks, there's been a lot of
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: decriminalization efforts all across our country as far as cities
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: and states along the way, So more to come on
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: that now. I kind of alluded to here DMT so
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: dimethyl trip to mean whereas you know, when we talked
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: about psilocybin or silicen, it was the four h O
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: version of DMT, so just DMT itself. That's a selective
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: serotonin agonist. It's got a lot of different Like most substances,
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: it's got a lot of different nicknames. One that stands
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: out to me is Businessman Special. And why is that? Well,
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: think of a smoke break, you know, usually ten to
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: fifteen minutes or less if folks do do that. You know,
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: vaping seems to be the more rampant these days. But anyways,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: businessman specially because the effects are rapid and short. Think
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: about it's like a little break right now. As far
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: as d m T administration. There could be you know, smoked,
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: you know, the crystals be smoked in a pipe or
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: a bomb, you name it. But it also is part
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: of the aa huasca brew. And you probably have seen
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: that in the news or headlines in the last couple
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: of years or so thanks to one h you know,
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: famous cat known as a quarterback, well multiple teams at
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: this point. But Aaron Rodgers, right, he h lots of
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: quotes coming from him from these his stated references are
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: out there utilization of the substance. But the overall idea
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: is that the ausca is basically d m T plus
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: an ma Aoi medication our mind, so you know, enhancing effects.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: So what what folks don't talk about is the intense
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: vomiting induced by you know, that a huasca brew overall.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: So you just vomit, vomit, vomit and then have some respection,
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: so you know, take the good with the bat. I
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: guess all right, when it comes to auhasca, there's been
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: a lot of celebrities that talked about. I mentioned Aaron Rodgers,
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Chelsea a Handler. Of course, I wouldn't be a conversation
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: about psychedelics and celebrities without Miley Cyrus, right, she has
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: some quotes regarding that as well too, amongst other substances.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: But you know, that's that's what I'll wrap up with
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: for you know, the trip to means overall. Now, when
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: talking about our groups of psychedelics, let's now jump into
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: the fenethyla means. Yes, this is a rapid rundown, folks.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: But here's where the names kick back, right Romo dragonfly,
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: think about that. I don't know if it doesn't sound
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: like a coffee beverage, although you know, maybe I wonder
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: what color of the beverage would be, right, or one
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: of those refreshers these days. But anyways, sometimes you just
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: call dragonfly. It's first synthesized back in the late nineties.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: But basically it's a fly substance because it has a
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: dihydro fan. This is where it gets really nerdy real quick.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: If you look this structure, it's said to look like
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: a dragonfly. That doesn't happen often for terminology where it's like,
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: you know, MEDCHM meets the street overall, this picture like
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: three rings with a tail, and they're like, oh yeah,
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: it looks like a dragonfly. Woo Okay, then it works
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: again you know, selective seroton agonist also maoi. It's got
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: about it's said to be about a third of the lucigenicity,
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: the potency of LSD. Yet three hundred times out of mescaline.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: What's mescaline? You ask, Oh, you know that one that's
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: in the the cacti, right, peyote, mescalito mescaline, you know,
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: his little bulbs, the cactus bulbs along the way, right.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: So it's actually the three four five trimethoxy, so three
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: mythoxy groups on fenin ethylamine. Hence it's a fenethylamine class. Right.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: But you can you think of the video game a
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: little older now, Fruit Nanjo and you'r slicing and dice
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: in a way that could happen with the cactus, you know,
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: to extract or you know, it could just be pure
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: extraction as well too. All right, next up, we we
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: want to talk about two CEB. Literally the title that
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: is just to the letter C and the letter B.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: But what you know, there's a whole grouping of the
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: two C something two C X psychedelics. Okay, it just
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: talks about the structures. It's where a methoxy group is
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: added on the benzene ring YadA y audi yadum okay.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: But two C B is also as a slang term
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: of pink cocaine, which gets really confusing really fast, because
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: when we talked about stimulants on thug drug stimulants here
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: in the Pain Pod, we talked about pink cocaine and
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: how they take cocaine diet pink because they want people
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: to think that they're buying two CB, but they're actually
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: buying cocaine that's pink. We call it pink cocaine. Whow
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: all of that and one breath could have done more. Right,
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: You have to when you're talking about stimulants and psychedelics, right,
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: So two C B it's a mescaline analog. It's usually
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: a white part of the powder that's just pink. So
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: hence they you know, use that in the in the
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: slang terms along the way and you know it. It
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: became more popular back in the eighties when there was
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: a ban on ecstasy than in the nineties. I believe
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: it was ninety four. They classified it as a controlled
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: substance Class one, so illegal. Typically Columbia produces it and
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: Germany consumes it. But hey, we got the whole planet
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: of course as well too. One of the notable things
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: is that the coming down, you know, the end of
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: the experience, usually lasts an hour or two along the way.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: All right, what else we got? Enbomb I mentioned that,
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: you know, having that more metallic tasting than LSD. You know,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: it's like where it's it's like, you know, being the
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: waiter telling you about the menu here, right, But anyways,
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: it's so, it's a derivative two C I. It's also
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: known as smiles. By the way, It's a controlled substance
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: class one since back over a decade ago, selective serotonin agonist.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: It typically will create thought loops. Okay, there's a lot
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: of different variations, but twenty five I N bomb is
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: the most observed overall. It could be on little blotters
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: like LSD or you know, so on and so forth.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: The N bomb n bo M comes from the structure,
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: the name of the actual chemical name of the structure.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: All right, By now you're thinking, you're hopefully you weren't
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: thinking about the whole time. But what about that nutmeg? Right,
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: everybody's got it in their pantry, if they've got a pantry,
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: So why are we talking about that with psychedelics. Well,
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: nut mag has mirosticin and ella missin. Okay, very small percentage,
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: like one percent or less of actual raw nutmeg. It's
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: also found in parsley and dill, but let's just concentrate
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: on the nutmeg for now. Slang is mace but you
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: know those work is MAOIs and anti colonergics. So you
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: got a lot of concerns for effects and interactions and
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: so on and so forth. Okay, it takes typically more
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: than the dose it's in an average pantry because it's
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: all about the dose, right, So there you go. Can't
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: wait for the next Thanksgiving dinner to tell everybody, right,
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: all right? So the next up classification was substitute amphetamines. Now,
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: when we're talking about this, you know think about you
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: know how in general, how are they working? Right, So
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: you think about SSRIs. They prevent the re uptake of serotonin,
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: so there'll be more in the snapped to cleft, you know,
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: just more serotonin available. Well, substituted means or emphetamines I
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: should say, you know, really work more so to as
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: SSR a's They they propel the release of serotonin, so
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: even more serotonin that cleft much more effects, right, so
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: much as to say that somebody could say, like, well,
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: if somebody is utilizing something like that, they could be
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: looking to provoke serotonin syndrome. Oh, probably haven't heard that
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: one before, right, Well, one way of looking at it, right,
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: all right, So one of our big ones would be
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: of course alluded to earlier m D m A or
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: methyl dioxy methamphetamine, ecstasy or X. So it's it releases
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: or provokes the release of serotonin or a benephrind dopamine.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: That's a party in a bottle rate. But keep in
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: mind it's methylene dioxy meth amphetamine. Okay, So you start
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: with a stimulant, change the structure and you got a psychedelic,
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: but you still have that stimulant as the core. Right.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: So animals think, think dogs, But animals trying to detect
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: amphetamine can also detect MDMA, and animals trained to detect
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: LSD psychedelic also detect MDMA. So it's all about the
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: structure for the little doggy noses right now. MDMA is
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: an intactogen. It produces a touch within. It's also an empathogen.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: It produces empathy that could be visualized when someone's having
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: their experience. There's a lot of touch, a lot of
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: you know, emotion along the way. Okay, been around for
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: a long time. It was actually synthesized originally by merk
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: when they were developed aiming to develop anyway, a medication
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: to stop abnormal bleeding. Uh. Basically M D M A
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: or ecstasy came about as an intermediate all of that medicine,
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: the methyl hydrastenine. Then Alexander Sulgan mentioned him earlier, big time,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: you know, psychedelics author researcher back in the seventies first
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: published on the ecstasi's effects in humans. Uh, and you know,
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: so on and so forth along the way. All right,
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: after ecstasy one one more here we want to talk
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: about cathoones. So when you hear katha nones, it ends
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: in O n E s or ones. So you're thinking
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: in the structured as the key tone, right key tone
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: ends an, So cathodones O E has that key tone
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: group added on to an amphetamine. So what's some examples, Well,
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: we have caught h you know, if you go over
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: to you know, along the Indian Ocean, basically you know,
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: think think East Africa, Middle East, You're gonna see a
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: lot of folks having caught just kind of cheeked within
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: their mouths okay, large you know, bubbles within the mouth overall.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: You can actually see it. And there's a Tom Hanks
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: movie you know, filmed within the area overall that that
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: showed a lot of people, you know, within the movie.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: I mean it's just a dramatization of course, you know,
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: having caught within their mouth along the way really stands
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: out in Yemen in fact of the Yemen and water split.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: Rurrogates caught trees because it's a third of their economy. Okay,
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: huge tax overall along the way. But kott Will you know,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: be a serotonin norip ain effering reuptake inhibitor and it
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: releases dopeing along the way, so it hits the heavy
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: neural transmitters. Other cathinones, well, we had bath salts and
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: the rest of the gang kind of peaked or came
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: about more profoundly, and around the twenty ten era, a
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: lot of me too substances out there along the way,
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: but basically a cathinone along the way as well too.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: One other Catherine, how about Bepropion who didn't see that
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: one coming? Right? You might have known that one though,
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: So you know classic you know, smoking sensation a medication also,
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: you know depression anxiety, you name it, but it works
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: as a noropinephron dopamine reuptake inhibitor and weak nicotinic receptor antagonist.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Tends to smoke the cessation options, right, all right, Last,
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: but not least, in our groupings of psychedelics, we have
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: the paparazines. I'm not going to go too deep into
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: that because you basically have benzyl rings, you have pentyl rings,
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: and you add some substitutions on there and you end
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: up with euphoric and hallucinogenic, you know, psychedelic properties. Overall,
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: We'll leave it at that because it just gets really
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: really deep into the medcam real fast overall. All right,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: so big picture, folks, We went over the mechanisms, We
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: went over some trends as far as psychedelics overall, and
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: then we went over the groupings and specific psychedelics rather rapidly,
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: because hey, the core of these is a lot of stimulation, right,
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: So why not along the way on our next episode
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: of the Pain Pod, We're going to have a follow up. Okay,
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: I have this, you know, dice this up as two
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: separate episodes because well, we don't want to listen too
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: long at one time, right, But the next is going
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: to be psychedelic clinical trials. We're going to dive into
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: the multiple mental health conditions, the synthetic fixed dosages, and
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: maybe maybe even a trial and involve sexual misconduct. You
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: didn't think this episode and was going to end with
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: words like that, right then, you don't know the pain Pod, right,
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: So here we went over a lot of psychedelics, the
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: core information. Right next episode of the Pain Pod, we're
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: going to go into the psychedelic clinical trials overall, because
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: that's really where it's at in the healthcare space. Right.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: So until then, folks, I wish you farewell, but also
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: I really think you if your time here. As always,
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: I hope this was an enjoyable and educational episode of
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: the Paint Pod for Thug Drugs Psychedelics. Look forward to
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: seeing you on the next episode for Thug Drugs Psychedelic
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: Clinical Trials. As always, I wish you a great day
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: every day.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: If you'd like to join Mark on the Pain Pod,
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: send us an email to publish your at pharmacypodcast dot
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: com and make sure to share the show and subscribe
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: on your favorite podcast directory.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: Thanks for listening,