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49ers Draft Scenarios With ESPN's NICK WAGONER · Guy Football Focus with Guy Haberman

0:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey guys, guy here, bit of a while, been like a month, did not plan for it to happen that way, but the draft is almost here.
0:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's time to get back to work, button down.
0:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Nick Wagner on the show today from ESPN.com.
0:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Nick is coming on the show.
0:17
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot is always insightful.
0:19
[SPEAKER_01]: It has a great combination of experience, ideas, insight, talks to people in the building, talks to people in the building, talks to people in contacts.
0:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I always left talking to him.
0:31
[SPEAKER_01]: We always bring stuff stuff I haven't thought about and has ideas for things the 49ers are any NFL team.
0:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Could do.
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1:55
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2:01
[SPEAKER_01]: As we sit here as I record this
2:05
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's get to the draft.
2:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Where do you think things are at right now?
2:09
[SPEAKER_01]: The nine are sitting at 27 and how they view their position in this draft at this moment?
2:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I think if you are sitting here right now and you're the 49ers, the hard part of drafting so late in the round is there are so many different scenarios that could play out in front of you.
2:26
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think in a lot of ways it requires more leg work leading up to the draft in terms of just sitting down and saying, well, what happens if as an example, there's a big run on receivers.
2:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's let's say that all the guys that they have done all this homework on who could potentially be there at 27 that they might have interested in They're all gone and then let's say the addressers are gone and the three safety's are gone like how do you look at it?
2:48
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you do and I think one of the things that they're gonna have a problem with that is it is not exclusive to them It's a league-wide thing is I don't get the sense we're talking to the Niners or people around the league that people think this is a great draft in terms of the first round like
3:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, you always hear teams talk about how many guys they give a first round grade two and a normal draft is probably what 17 to 22 somewhere in there.
3:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you're going to see teams that say afterwards it's 12 to 15, you know, something like that.
3:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And the chances of one of those guys being there when the Niners picks,
3:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone enters pick is pretty slim pretty low.
3:23
[SPEAKER_00]: If that is indeed kind of the range that we're looking at and so I'm sure they're in that boat of they would love to to move down.
3:31
[SPEAKER_00]: If that were to be a scenario that played out or one of those guys didn't fall into their lap.
3:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I also don't know who's going to want to move up because if the prevailing thought is.
3:39
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not a super deep draft.
3:41
[SPEAKER_00]: We like guys in rounds two and three and maybe even early round four like that clump.
3:47
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people would like to to to to cluster a bunch of picks in that range, but it may be a lot harder, a lot easier said than done when you when he comes down to it, you know.
3:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you're describing the 2024 draft for the Niners tried to trade out.
3:58
[SPEAKER_01]: They couldn't.
3:59
[SPEAKER_01]: They drafted a rookie Pierce all.
4:00
[SPEAKER_01]: He may still, you know, he may have a very good career for them.
4:03
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see.
4:03
[SPEAKER_01]: They were good players available.
4:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Cooper DeGene got drafted after Ricky did.
4:07
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's value.
4:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there's, are there still good football players?
4:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think the expectation has to be yes.
4:13
[SPEAKER_01]: It's interesting, because I would say like, when I'm texting with people right now, the number one question I get from outsiders is like, what position are they going to go receiver?
4:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
4:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, of course.
4:24
[SPEAKER_01]: You brought up receiver.
4:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I think receivers always interesting at the end of the first round because there can be positional value of that position, right?
4:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it doesn't get drafted like tackle.
4:32
[SPEAKER_01]: When you need a tackle or an edge, 27 is not the place to be.
4:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think the positional value conversation is especially interesting when it comes to this draft because you look around and you know, if you're looking at mock drafts, you're seeing, let's say, three safeties that could go in the top 20 and that's unusual.
4:52
[SPEAKER_00]: You might get one like in a normal draft, if you're drafting at 27 where the Niners are, you could sit back and say, okay.
5:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Do we want to go for, let's say, the sixth best receiver or edge russia, because that's what's going to be there, or do we want the best safety or guard?
5:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's, that's usually kind of how it plays out.
5:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember when the Rams were doing the FM picks era, I would talk to Rams executives and one of the things they would tell me is like, we're happy to trade away these first round picks because of where we're drafting.
5:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I could get Jalen Ramsey, and yes, we have to pay him, or I could get a safety that I'm probably not going to pay him three years anyway.
5:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and so I think,
5:27
[SPEAKER_00]: From the 49ers perspective, when you look at this draft, a lot of people are saying, you kind of have to throw positional value away a little bit if you want the best guys, just because it's loaded at safety because there's a running back who could go in the top five, all those things.
5:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that puts them in a really weird spot in the sense of they like to draft edge rushers, they like to drive defensive linemen, they like to draft wide receivers.
5:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you're looking at what the Niners need more than anything,
5:56
[SPEAKER_00]: It's star power.
5:57
[SPEAKER_00]: They need those next guys that they're going to build around.
6:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And so to me what this draft for them is going to come down to is weighing that we could maybe get a safety who's really, really good and better immediately, especially then let's say the 6th or 7th
6:17
[SPEAKER_00]: But who are we going to pay in three years?
6:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Who is going to be potentially a guy that we want to be around for a long period of time?
6:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And just from what we've seen in this regime safety guard, those are not positions they traditionally pay a lot of money to, or certainly not top of market.
6:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So that guy, not saying he wouldn't get paid, but he'd have to be Fred Warner, right?
6:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it awful linebackers not one of those visions, but you pay Fred Warner because he's Fred Warner.
6:42
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's kind of to me the needle
6:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they're going to be in that situation where it's like, do we want to go with the position that we really value knowing that that game that guy may not work out or do we want to go with the position that's maybe a little more less traditional than what they do knowing that maybe you're not going to pay him in three years, four years.
7:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I do view them as a team that
7:07
[SPEAKER_01]: could take the best, could probably use the best player that's available on their board, right?
7:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, they have enough good players that they can compete, but they also have enough spots that they could use a D-Lime and they could use a lineback or they could use a safety, they could use a receiver, they could use a running back, I know, you were in Arizona and replay the time machine, where Kyle Shanahan says, we don't necessarily want to give Christian McAfrey whatever it was, 350 touches this year, but it's so easy to give Christian McAfrey through inch of a tight end.
7:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, you think again, people ask me what the number one need is and it's a cop out of an answer, but to me, it's star power.
7:46
[SPEAKER_00]: You just, who is the guy that you can draft that you're going to want to say three years from now.
7:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's give him a big contract and let's keep building around him because guy, you and I've talked about this.
7:57
[SPEAKER_00]: You've probably tired of hearing me say it on this podcast, just like I don't know who that next nucleus of guys is.
8:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and you're getting really close to the point where you're transitioning out of the previous nucleus where, you know, Christian McAfrey and George Kittle and Trent Williams and Fred Warner and Nick Bosa and those guys like some of those guys are still going to be around obviously beyond this year and maybe even two years from now, but
8:19
[SPEAKER_00]: After that, who is it?
8:21
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a Brock Perti.
8:22
[SPEAKER_00]: You know that.
8:22
[SPEAKER_00]: You've paid Brock as such, Diomodoro Lnore, you could probably throw into that category as well.
8:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Beyond that, I don't know who it is.
8:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, I think I'm with you.
8:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the best player available if it happens to be at a position that they love, like Ed Ruscher, that's great.
8:38
[SPEAKER_00]: But if it's also maybe a little bit outside the box and it has to be a safety or something, I think that's fine.
8:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I do think there is some, you know, it depth in this draft, particularly in eddressure.
8:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And not just eddressure, like the kind of eddressure they need, you know, like they need a speed guy, a bendy edd guy.
8:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, somebody who gives them a different look who is, you know, more along the lines of like a Bryce Huff would be, then then maybe what my cow Williams would be for example.
9:04
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's just so many factors that play into it, which, you know, it's difficult enough to project
9:09
[SPEAKER_00]: draft ticks a couple weeks out.
9:11
[SPEAKER_00]: It's particularly hard to do in a draft like this when the team you're covering is picking 27.
9:15
[SPEAKER_01]: No one them as well as you do is there a player or two that you think if he's sitting there at 23 24 25 they'll be holding their breath hoping for or might even consider moving up for.
9:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think so.
9:33
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't think there's somebody that they would move up for or you don't think there's someone they'd be holding their breath for.
9:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think there's someone they would move up for necessarily and it goes back to what I said a little bit ago about like I just don't know how like it would have to be one of those guys that they've given a first round grade to that they think like oh like this guy we had is 12 on our board for example and he's sitting there at 24 or whatever and like where it's reachable where you don't have to sell the farm to go get them but
10:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's certainly some guys that they probably be holding.
10:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, Matt Barrow's our friend at the athletic has been a high on the Omar Cooper thing.
10:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And I can see, you know, that makes a ton of sense in terms of what they like and it's a position that they like and they need to plan for the future and all the ways that he could help them both short and long term.
10:20
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think the most interesting conversation guy is offensive line.
10:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, just in the sense that like we know they don't like doing it, they did it with Mike McClunchy because they had the ninth pick and they felt like there wasn't going to be.
10:33
[SPEAKER_00]: They were going to draft high enough to get one of those guys who's like a polished ready to go type of offensive lineman.
10:40
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a pretty good.
10:41
[SPEAKER_00]: offensive tackle draft.
10:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I think at least through the end of the first round, maybe not much after that, which isn't that dissimilar to a couple of years ago.
10:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember you had the Roger Rosengarten and, you know, Kingsley, Suemetai, like those guys that were kind of like fringe, you know, first second round types of guys and they obviously, you know, had a chance to get Rosengarten and passed on them even though they liked them and all that.
11:04
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe there'll be some of that, but I think the other like interesting element of that is,
11:10
[SPEAKER_00]: One thing I wonder about with their drafting, particularly when it comes to the early rounds, is how do they weigh a ceiling versus a floor?
11:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll just give you an example.
11:20
[SPEAKER_00]: This is something a thought exercise that I work through the other day doing our mock draft at ESPN, which comes out next week.
11:26
[SPEAKER_00]: But,
11:27
[SPEAKER_00]: like I was weighing the Arizona State tackle versus Caleb Lomu from Utah and you know you talked to people around the league and I kind of get mixed opinions on both and when I watch them to my amateur eye I like the Arizona State kid better.
11:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a ton of
11:42
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, projectable ability there and if you really believe in your coaching staff, you think you can get that out of him.
11:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Caleb Lomu though, I could see in the run heavy offense and a lot of what they asked of him and he plays left tackle and you're planning for the future behind Trent Williams.
11:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's a guy who could potentially make a lot of sense there.
12:01
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think with Lomu, you're looking at a higher floor and a lower ceiling.
12:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the opposite with, how do you say as a name?
12:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I've struggled with that.
12:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I know I'm just a butcher.
12:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I was calling him Big Macs.
12:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I call him Big Macs.
12:14
[SPEAKER_00]: The Arizona State kid, right?
12:16
[SPEAKER_00]: But Big Macs.
12:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I am not sure.
12:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I am not sure.
12:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's right.
12:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I've practiced it, but I didn't even want to make you say it first.
12:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
12:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't practiced it yet.
12:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I watched a couple of videos on it today, and some people are saying they are, and some people aren't.
12:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I've noticed that too.
12:30
[SPEAKER_00]: So I've just, I've been trying to avoid it admittedly, but that's why, yeah, big max.
12:35
[SPEAKER_00]: But no, he's a talented guy.
12:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that is the kind of scenario that could come into play, where it's like you have a couple of guys.
12:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the question becomes on top of all that weighing ceiling versus floor,
12:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Kind of guy help right away and and I know the Niners don't always draft that way, but I also feel like if you look at the moves they made this offseason it indicates They're ready to make another run at this thing this year and so you would like your first round pick to be able to contribute and when I watch Max, I'm like maybe he can play guard for a year I don't know if you'd love that, but he could at least try it before kicking out the tackle.
13:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure you get that with with you with with Lomu
13:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but Caden Proctor a guy from from Alabama who I think would definitely fit that mold if if he were to drop.
13:18
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, just so many layers to the conversation of not just where you're going positionally, but trying to factor the future versus right now and then ceilings and floors and all that stuff.
13:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And, um, they're just not in a position right now where it's like, that's the guy.
13:31
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a sure thing that would make all the sense in the world.
13:34
[SPEAKER_01]: It was interesting specifically on Lomo, because I've seen anyone who looked at a mock, a couple of mocks has definitely seen him mocked to the 49ers.
13:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And I saw a quote from him at one point where he was like, and he was not dismissive, like he was earnest.
13:50
[SPEAKER_01]: But he said, based like, you know what I discovered, I might be good at this, I decided to go for it.
13:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I don't know if that's quite, like, you know, you want the guy who's like,
13:59
[SPEAKER_01]: has been dying to prove everybody that he can do it, not waited for somebody to tell him.
14:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I might be good, so I'm good.
14:07
[SPEAKER_01]: That's interesting.
14:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, he might say, like, I'm this interpreting, but then I read, I was going through his bio on the beast, Dan Brutley said, and he says he needs more strength, technique, and grit.
14:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we can deal with technique and strength, but grit is not
14:24
[SPEAKER_01]: what I want to be projected, that's I don't know how projectable grit is like a kind of feel like it's but anyway I'm picking on Caleb a little but yeah I don't know it's it's it's so now the reality is a 27 none of these are perfect.
14:41
[SPEAKER_01]: prospects, right?
14:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It's why I thought last year, the Cadada, Ohio State Simmons, a tackle, was interesting.
14:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Because like, when are you going to be at 11, ever again?
14:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
14:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, now they went past Russia.
14:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So fine.
14:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you probably got to go past Russia or tackle once they couldn't get their guy, um, yeah, it takes a row of McMillan, but, uh, yeah.
15:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, what is there a receiver you mentioned, Cooper?
15:06
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, I'm a bit of an insult that's what you just said to real quick.
15:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I know there was a lot of talk last year.
15:13
[SPEAKER_00]: The Niners, not drafting an offensive tackle.
15:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I think if, if let's say things had flipped around in the scenes to took my Cal Williams and Kelvin Banks and fallen, I think there was a chance they're going to do that.
15:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I also think the 49ers were going to strongly consider, and he went much later, and people would have thrown a fit if they had taken him in 11, but I think in a small move down or something, Josh Connerly, who went to, went to Washington, I think there was some interest there.
15:36
[SPEAKER_00]: What about Grant Zable?
15:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
15:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I hadn't heard as much about that.
15:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure they liked him, but I know that Conorley was a guy that was well thought of in that building.
15:46
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're looking at guys that maybe project similar or look similar to him in this draft, maybe that could be a clue for you again.
15:55
[SPEAKER_00]: But going back to last year too, Guy, you and I talked about this at the time, they almost had to spend a bunch of kicks on the defensive line because they need to remake the defensive line.
16:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And what did we say after that draft?
16:07
[SPEAKER_00]: We said, next year at this time, we could be having this very same conversation but about the offensive line.
16:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think there isn't argument that that should be the conversation.
16:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, because it's not just, do you need a long-term replacement for Trent Williams?
16:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you need a left guard?
16:21
[SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna need a center here pretty soon.
16:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Colton McKibitz, he signed a new contract but as soon as after this year, that could be up for conversation.
16:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, where he needs an extension.
16:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And Dominic Poone is entering his third year and will be extension eligible for the first time after this year.
16:35
[SPEAKER_00]: So, they're not overloaded with ticks where they can just afford to load up in one spot.
16:42
[SPEAKER_00]: But if this is a good enough draft and they have a chance to get their tackle that they think could be even if it's not the left tackle spot.
16:48
[SPEAKER_00]: If it's your long-term right tackle spot, I think it's something they have to, they have to strongly consider just because they just haven't done it and they need to.
16:57
[SPEAKER_01]: If you tell me they got their left guard and he doesn't project as a tackle, he's just a guard.
17:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Fine.
17:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
17:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
17:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, especially if you're trying to go for it this year.
17:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So which, which again, all their moves they've made this offseason indicate that they are.
17:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so where are you at on receiver?
17:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, do you like any of these guys?
17:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I for want, you know, you wrote a big, you wrote a big piece about this a couple days, two days ago, what ESPN.com and you mentioned some of their visits, concepts on Cooper, Boston.
17:28
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they, they look on paper settled, right, with Evans, Kirk, Pierce, all the Marcus Robinson.
17:37
[SPEAKER_01]: But as we've seen, like 2004, they were talking about trading, or there were rumors, right, that they would shop.
17:44
[SPEAKER_01]: the Friday of the draft, Debo and or IU, they're trading neither.
17:49
[SPEAKER_01]: They get Ricky.
17:50
[SPEAKER_01]: You think, oh, look, they got Pierce Saul and IU, and Debo, and then how many games of those guys can get in?
17:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're in Jennings.
17:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And this group as much as you say like, okay, go back to a channel hand said at Phoenix, they've got and lynched at the same thing.
18:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we got experienced guys that have been here before, you connected the dots on their two quotes being very similar.
18:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there's not much speed there, right?
18:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's not much ceiling there.
18:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And that to me is the big thing is they just need juice, they need speed.
18:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn't necessarily mean the guy with the fastest 40 time.
18:23
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, using a case he concepts he own as an example, who, I personally, I don't like him maybe from what I watch as much as others, just because of the kind of inconsistency with catching the ball, but his kind of short area of quickness does jump out to you.
18:40
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not necessarily the long speed.
18:42
[SPEAKER_00]: He's going to blow you away with his 40.
18:44
[SPEAKER_00]: that short area quick this where he can create some separation, get the ball and get yards after the catch when he does catch it.
18:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there and it makes them an interesting, it makes them an interesting candidate.
18:55
[SPEAKER_00]: But when I look at all those guys, they all have flaws and it goes back to what you said a minute ago when you're drafting at 27, you're always going to have be drafting a guy who's got some sort of a hole in his game.
19:05
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I look.
19:07
[SPEAKER_00]: The plan for receiver, they have to be thinking beyond this year.
19:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know people always think like, well, they need the guy that's going to help them the most right away.
19:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you draft a receiver and you have to play for Kyle Shanahan, more often than not, it's tough for those guys at that position specifically to come in and make a difference right away.
19:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Debo was an exception to that, mainly because of his versatility because you could get him a ball without having him do.
19:33
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, all the routes from the route tree and in that type of stuff where it didn't have to be as refined that to me is where oh, my Cooper makes the most sense of the guys that are being discussed here no Mark Cooper make it to 27 I don't know you're seeing him connected as high as I think 16 to the jets I've seen maybe even a little bit before that the Rams have been sniffing around from things that I've heard so you know I think there's a lot of a lot of possibility that he's not there and then you start looking at Denzel Boston you say this is a talented guy.
20:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, maybe the perfect guy to learn behind my ovens in some ways.
20:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's, you know, you can, if you squint real hard, you can maybe see that the glances up it, but it's, but it's asking a lot, right?
20:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, yeah, and that's my thing.
20:19
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just, I think, get finding guys with juice, with with the ability to separate, consistent with, consistently, it is utmost importance to take this offense to another level and it's not just about like,
20:31
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't need Danny Gray.
20:32
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't want the guy who just runs in a straight line as fast as possible.
20:35
[SPEAKER_00]: It has to be, especially within this offense, who could run a 15-yard dig route and create four yards of separation so that when he catches the ball, he's got room to get another 20 or more.
20:47
[SPEAKER_00]: That has to be, if you're looking at receiver, the number one priority, and it's a good receiver draft.
20:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So if they don't get one of those guys in the first, don't force it.
20:55
[SPEAKER_00]: There could be somebody there in the second who makes a lot of sense.
20:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, and they have Jordan Watkins.
21:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Stray leftover from last year.
21:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, concepts you on to me is interesting just because he's a get open guy.
21:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Like.
21:07
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think that matters, particularly if your quarterback doesn't have Matthew Stafford's arm, which is why Boston's a little less attractive to me.
21:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Kevin's has proven to be a contested catch guy, so that's not, you know, projecting Denzel Boston as Mike Evans is just like, I get it because you got to pick somebody, but the odds, you know, so a guy drops the ball from time to time.
21:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I think what you're describing is,
21:31
[SPEAKER_01]: a home run hitter who strikes out like the nighters could use a home run hitter like I who just by his presence not because Kyle schemes them not because just by his presence makes plays and I don't think they're too deep at receiver for that you know like Christian Kirk's making what four million dollars whatever it is yeah.
21:49
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and comment on injury plagues.
21:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
21:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And Ricky Pierce saw coming off an injury plagues season.
21:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Mike Evans coming off an injury plagues season.
21:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, it's a bunch of question marks in a lot of ways.
22:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we know what Mike Evans can be.
22:01
[SPEAKER_00]: But how does he bounce back?
22:02
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of questions.
22:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I asked you this a while ago when the season ended.
22:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you said, yes, we disagree.
22:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, but correct me if I'm wrong.
22:08
[SPEAKER_01]: But like, are we sure Ricky Pierce else getting his fifth year option picked up?
22:11
[SPEAKER_01]: When the time comes in 2027?
22:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't I don't I don't I don't think we talked about that, but I can't believe I'm with you I don't I don't know that we can sit here and say that right now I don't know how you could because especially for what what the going rate would be at that point So yeah, there's he still has plenty to prove obviously some of this has been out of his control the injury stuff but
22:34
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you can't say healthy and produce like, and I do think him playing Z receiver, I think is going to be really good for him like that he can settle into a spot if everything else works out, but again, how many times do we use that phrase guy when we're talking about this team if everything else works out if everybody's healthy if all if this guy can stay healthy if that guy can say healthy like that's the that's the thing and that's the phrase that we throw around with this team and obviously they still had a lot of success last year, even though they got kind of negative responses to some of those questions.
23:01
[SPEAKER_00]: But if they're going to take that next step and try to win a Super Bowl and compete in the toughest division and football, those are the things they're going to have to figure out.
23:12
[SPEAKER_01]: ask you similar question I asked you earlier, but a different way, like having been through the mock draft process and knowing the kinds of guys they like it.
23:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I know we're talking Thursday, 16th.
23:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So as you said to me before we started recording, they got a lot of meetings.
23:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Like Monday, this answer might be different.
23:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Tuesday, this answer might be different.
23:29
[SPEAKER_01]: But what does a real, what do you think they're realistic kind of dreams scenario is for the first round?
23:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I think what they would I think what they would like to have happen is is one of those.
23:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Edge guys are one of those receivers falls into their lab and maybe it's concepts, you know, maybe it's Cooper at receiver on the edge.
23:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know because it seems like there's a big drop off, but let's just throw out a key measure door from Miami.
23:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that's the kind of guy who falls into the lab.
24:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, and I'm not, I'm not the first to submit this and I will say the Daniel Jeremiah has said it.
24:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I've heard great questions.
24:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree when I watch America Lawrence.
24:12
[SPEAKER_00]: But again, like, these are the guys that you're talking about that Ricky Purcell is a good example of it too, you mentioned it a minute ago, you know, a guy who they really like, who they don't really want to take it 27, but it's not going to be there when they draft again.
24:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And so then you have to throw the throw it out there like, well, are we taking them now because we don't have a choice.
24:32
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't have, we can't get the trade down that we want.
24:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think there are guys like that where I think Malachi Lawrence might be one who fits in that.
24:38
[SPEAKER_00]: But, but, but,
24:39
[SPEAKER_00]: given their affinity for edge rushers and the need for a speed guy who can bend the edge, maybe that's somebody who comes into play.
24:46
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think in their ideal world, if you could get somebody from a group of let's say concepts you own, Cooper, Caden Proctor, I would throw in that mix and then make this goes to a measure door.
24:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I got like that.
24:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that would be
25:01
[SPEAKER_00]: that would probably be maybe the best best case scenario that's at least somewhat realistic.
25:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know that it is and I also maybe might throw a safety in there.
25:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that would be out of character for them to take a, you know, a Tiananmen or, um, you know, the kid from Isitolito.
25:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, one of those guys maybe they slip and it would be interesting, but I'm not sure I just I just not sure they would do it.
25:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure this regime would pull the trigger on a safety in the first round if there's, you know, something else they like there.
25:33
[SPEAKER_01]: The enemy's interesting because from Oregon, he was at Purdue because like they loved him, Purdue loved them, Oregon loved him, but when I watch him and I did a couple of their games, like I didn't feel like it was Cooper Dijene all over the field.
25:47
[SPEAKER_01]: It was more, I think it was more like they felt like he was in the right place at the right.
25:52
[SPEAKER_01]: But he wasn't, to me, I didn't feel like a dynamic
25:59
[SPEAKER_00]: which is the kind of guy they need.
26:01
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't it needs to be not a box safety.
26:03
[SPEAKER_00]: It needs to be somebody who can run the alley, someone who can play, be more of a true free safety kind of guy.
26:09
[SPEAKER_00]: So let me ask you since you promise sure you come over this on your pod, but what was it where do you stand on Omar Cooper?
26:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Just as as a guy who's who has seen him up close and yeah, I've actually done a lot of big ten.
26:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm to me like I love Omar Cooper.
26:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he played in a very difficult league.
26:29
[SPEAKER_01]: The coach he played for demands a lot.
26:32
[SPEAKER_01]: He played for a shanahan, no relation.
26:34
[SPEAKER_01]: My shanahan is all that you can do, no matter.
26:36
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think you are, if you're gonna play it in the Anna,
26:40
[SPEAKER_01]: You, you, you can't just be a diva wider receiver.
26:45
[SPEAKER_01]: He made the play the year in college football last year at Penn State.
26:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
26:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
26:49
[SPEAKER_01]: No, he's not huge.
26:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
26:51
[SPEAKER_01]: You know.
26:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, but to me, he checks some of the boxes of just like toughness, desire, grit, enough talent that, you know, I think all the things we say about shanning hand receivers are true in terms of how tough it is to step in and join.
27:10
[SPEAKER_01]: But first round guys tend to, are you contributed, not the way that he eventually would, but he did contribute right away, as you said, you're looking to contribute right away.
27:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Ricky was primed to contribute right away.
27:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think guys, they take in the first round, our guys, they think.
27:26
[SPEAKER_01]: They give, they give an opportunity to, to contribute right away.
27:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think, you know, I think he could.
27:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So I like him.
27:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I do like him.
27:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
27:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I like him more and like then's out Boston at that spot.
27:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though Boston, if he fell to you, you'd feel like, oh, from a physicality standpoint, that's good value.
27:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
27:47
[SPEAKER_00]: But.
27:49
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm with you.
27:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
27:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess that's kind of how, but I just I wanted to hear it just your take is obviously you've been around and seen a lot of big 10 guys.
27:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I just like these Indiana got like I do like these Indiana guys, particularly at positions that can be soft.
28:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and being open to being coached hard.
28:07
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a good.
28:07
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a good.
28:08
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a good thing.
28:09
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a good example.
28:10
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're going to come to San Francisco too.
28:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, man, I I just think there.
28:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And he said, yeah, guy, that's the other thing.
28:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can use them in a lot of different ways, which means that you can still use piercill and Evans and all those guys find and still find ways to get in the ball.
28:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah.
28:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Anything I didn't ask you about that you think you have to say, you have to get on the record before, I don't think so.
28:35
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I mean, I think at the end of the day,
28:38
[SPEAKER_00]: the realistic scenario that probably plays out as they would love to find a trade down.
28:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I just think you're going to have trouble doing it.
28:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure anybody is going to look to move up and the types of teams that move up and the end of the first round usually are for, you know, let's say it's tie Simpson.
28:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, I don't know what appetite there is for that.
28:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I think that's going to be, I think you made the great point that this is, there's probably going to be a lot of
29:02
[SPEAKER_00]: similarities to the pure-solid draft in terms of what the Niners would like to have happen and what they ultimately have to do.
29:08
[SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't mean that everyone's going to dislike the pick or whatever, but I just think that that may be something where if you look at the, you know, you look at the consensus mocked draft boards and things like that compared to where the Niners end up taking the guy.
29:22
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a very real chance that there's going to be a gap there.
29:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think the what would have happened is really interesting, like what would have happened if they had tried if they'd been able to trade back what would they have done.
29:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, just looking back at it, lad Maconkey went Ricky went 31 Maconkey went 34.
29:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Cooper to Jean went 40, Braden Fish went 39, by the way.
29:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Cooper to Jean went 40.
29:46
[SPEAKER_01]: To me, what was interesting in that draft was a couple of the potential, like, centers, because Jackson Powers Johnson went for Morgan, fell out of favor with the Raiders, obviously.
29:56
[SPEAKER_01]: But the guy going into that draft, I thought, was interesting, was Zack Frazier.
29:59
[SPEAKER_01]: who are the Steelers at 51, who like you couldn't take in him at 31, could you have traded back and taken him at 40 with that have been crazy, you know, it's so easy I think to play like the, to do revisions history on guys who would not have been positional value, because like Howard Rosen is a great example of a guy who really understands positional value and he like he drafts on value.
30:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, no, it's fascinating, right.
30:31
[SPEAKER_01]: But like, it's so it's easy to sell it.
30:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Zach Frazier should have been the guy like,
30:35
[SPEAKER_00]: But that was the one going to that draft I liked and but that's that's the thing with the Niners to they are a team that believe strongly in positional value in a lot of ways, but they also have exceptions to that and they've paid the exceptions George Kittle right Warner are exceptions that but again it's got to be a guy who is just like it's the talent is so obvious and the level where it becomes an advantage right where it's like
30:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Not only is this not the best positional value, but we are taking, we're gaining an advantage because our guy at this spot is so much better than everybody else's and running back it obviously they value that position more than than other teams do, but they also value what specifically Christian and Catherine.
31:17
[SPEAKER_00]: not just running back position, it's like they gave up so much to get Christian McCaffrey because of all the things that he can do, right?
31:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Because of the plurality of what he is to that offense.
31:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think this is a really good draft.
31:33
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll be kind of like a litmus test on just like,
31:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Where, where do they stay and feel softly?
31:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Are they still the same in terms of the way they view positional value and in terms of what they're willing to do when it comes to a first round pick that again is almost certainly not going to be a guy with a first round grade.
31:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, actually, I did think one guy specifically I want to ask you about Kenyutsidee, because DJ mocked him first and second to the nine or something.
31:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, he's not going to last.
31:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And then some people have said, well, he's not a great inline blocker, like kiddo, which my attitude is like, well, fine, you got George.
32:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you could break.
32:07
[SPEAKER_01]: They've done the Kyle tried the Jordan read thing.
32:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's done it before.
32:11
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't, you don't have to get this thing where you better get the idea.
32:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not taking the tight end unless he's George Kiddles.
32:16
[SPEAKER_01]: OK, well, right.
32:17
[SPEAKER_01]: What's your take on him?
32:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Like is he, is there any chances there?
32:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And if he is, do you think they're interested?
32:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't get the impression that they think he's going to be there, which would lead me to believe that he's probably not going to be there.
32:32
[SPEAKER_00]: For me personally, this is just my take on it.
32:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't necessarily see it because I don't know, it feels like for lack of a better term, a luxury pick for them just based on on where they are and I know people could put back on that because they to your point, you could say he is your long term.
32:49
[SPEAKER_00]: tight end even if he doesn't do all of the things that George Kittle does, because that's asking a lot of anyone to try to be George Kittle.
32:56
[SPEAKER_00]: But I just, I think that's the kind of tick that if you don't have a lot of other like big holes to fill.
33:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, I'm not, I am not a need based drafting person.
33:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't like doing that.
33:08
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think there's enough overlap between like needs and what the value is going to be.
33:14
[SPEAKER_00]: that you probably wouldn't go there, but again, there is that chance if he's the one guy out of that batch of guys that you might have a first round grade on that you have to at least consider it and then you figure it out later.
33:28
[SPEAKER_00]: But my question would be like, if you're making a move like that and I feel like you need that instant impact to the discussion about Omar Cooper, right?
33:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Like
33:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you can move Canyon Sedica around and get him the ball in unique ways that isn't exclusive to playing tight end, but part of Cooper's appeal is that you can do that with him right away, and then long term you know where his position is, where as Sedica would be, you know, maybe forcing it a little bit more.
33:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, I don't know.
33:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't really dug into him as much as some of the other guys and trying to find out, but I don't get the impression that people think he's going to be there.
34:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Just because there's not, I mean, I don't think there's any other tight ends people think they're going to go in the first round.
34:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And we've seen enough tight ends go relatively early in recent years that somebody's going to be willing to to take that shot if you want.
34:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
34:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Nick Wagner.
34:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Great senior man.
34:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks.
34:23
[SPEAKER_01]: One week or two.
34:24
[SPEAKER_00]: You got it.
34:24
[SPEAKER_00]: No doubt.
34:25
[SPEAKER_00]: It'll be interesting one for 2026 seasons underway.
34:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't say that.
34:32
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, cool man.