Latest / I Do, Part 2 / Are Open Marriages Crazy?

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Are Open Marriages Crazy? · I Do, Part 2

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: It's I Do Part two and I'm one of your hosts,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Jane Kramer. And usually on this podcast we are talking
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: about people that are in their chapter two looking for
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: love again after divorce. But what if the key to
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: not getting divorced is ethical non monogamy. We're going to
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: dive into this today. My guest is documenting her experience
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: with an open marriage through her social media Openly Committed.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Please welcome Danielle to the podcast. Danielle, thank you so
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: much for coming on I Do Part two. We really
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: appreciate you coming on. And you know, I have to
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: say it's interesting because you know, we've got different hosts
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: for different guests. And when I got sent your rundown,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this is funny. I know why
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: they picked me. I was like cuz I was like
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: this girl was like huge joke. iHeart I like it.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Why did they pick you? Now? I need to know.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Well, so I my last husband very happily married now,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: but my ex husband was have multiple, multiple multiple affairs
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: in our marriage, and so I have quite an opinion
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: when it comes around when it comes to uh cheating.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: And you know, I've I've spoken to people before that
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: have been in open relationships. And again, I just come
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: from a place of I don't know how that works
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: when I've been in something. But mine was so different, right,
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: because mine was a lot of lying and deceit, and
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: it seems like in an open marriage there is more
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: communication around it.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: So there's I have a lot of opinions about cheating too.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: So okay, great, well let's start there. So let me
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: let me let me hear your opinions on cheating.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think the definition of cheating is
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: betrayal and is lying. And I think so often I've
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: ended up talking to hundreds of people exploring open relationships
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: for multiple reasons. And the thing that I've heard from
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: people who've been cheated on is they look back on
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: the periods of time where they were cheated on and
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: they don't know what part was real and what what
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: part to believe and what was true, And all of
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: a sudden they're in a situation where they can't they
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: doubt huge chunks of the relationship. And what a terrible, heartbreaking,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: untrusting place to be in. And I'd be curious, you know,
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: how you how you felt after kind of going through
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: a betrayal, And so I think when when my husband
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: brought up the idea of an open relationship, and he
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: brought up the idea about two to three months into dating, very.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Early on, oh before even being married.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, we'd been dating for two months when
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: he brought up the idea of exploring an open relationship.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Neither of us had ever been in an open relationship before.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: We had no idea what we were doing. This is
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: like twenty ten. You didn't have TikTok influencers and blogs
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: about the topic back then, and so it was something
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: that we were going to explore. But his reasoning for
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: exploring an open relationship is that he had seen affairs
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: destroy families, destroy people's confidence, and he wanted to affair
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: proof our relationship. That was his initial reasoning for bringing
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: up an open relationship in the first place. And so
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: I think it can be a wonderful way to have
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: transparency and truth in a relationship, but it does not
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: work for everyone, and there are there are cheaters and
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: open relationships too. Like being an open relationship is not
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: carte blanche to cheat, We just define cheating differently, and
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: we establish rules and boundaries that have to be equally
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: respected the same way they wouldn't a monogamous relationship.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: For those that haven't followed along with your journey on
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  Speaker 1: social media, do you discuss the boundaries around an open
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: relationship in your marriage?
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: I do, yes. So we've had rules that have evolved
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: over the years, and I don't think that there's a
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: common rule set or agreement subset set that you know,
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: every open relationship, every couple follows. They're always different. And
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: so I think one of the things that we did,
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: what we spent the first two years of our open
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: relationship doing, is figuring out like, Okay, what are our rules,
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: you know, are how are we going to define our rules?
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: How do we define safe sex, how do we for
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: each other and eventually with other people? How do we
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: have really difficult conversations, you know, how do we define cheating?
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  Speaker 2: I think that that one's really important. And then also
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: setting the goals of like what do we eventually want
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: this relationship to be? And I think that happens no
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: matter what relationship you're in, but you're if you're in
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: an open relationship, you really have to have those conversations
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: because you're essentially deciding to not follow the set standard
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  Speaker 2: monogamous guidebook that society and culture and religion have kind
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: of set for us.
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  Speaker 1: Have you seen the movie Splitsville? I haven't got to Johnson.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, okay, I really really want to. I definitely need.
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  Speaker 1: To, Okay, because it is, you know, about having an
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: open marriage. So Dakota Johnson's marriage, her husband wanted, you know,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: to have this open marriage. But it's interesting because they
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: don't They don't tell the other person that they're having sex.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: They just kind of assume, like when he goes away
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: for his work trip in New York, that he's most
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: likely with someone. But it created this no I wouldn't
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: want to say, well, I guess jealousy, but also this
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: insecurity that he's choosing to leave our home to go
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: be with someone else. So do those feelings come up
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: when your husband wants to go be with somebody else?
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: So you're talking to me after I've been doing this
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: for fifteen years, So I think that's a pretty big
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: difference between you know, our agreements and the way that
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: I felt early on in our relationship when we were
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: new not only to being open, but also like new
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: to our relationship. Sure, and you know, we had a
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: lot more of those those insecurities and jealousies. I experienced
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: a ton of jealousy the first couple of years of
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: opening up. And now, you know, we've been together for
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: fifteen years. We've been open that entire time. I talk
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: abouts now as we've had phases. We've had phases of polyamory,
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: phases being open, we've had phases of monogamy. You know,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: but we've been together for fifteen years and so we
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: you know, are the types of jealousy that I experience
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: are very different. I wish I'd seen the movie so
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: that I could right.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: But for you, like in the beginning, did it make
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: you well? First of all? Like in the very beginning
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: when he brought it up, did that make you sad?
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Or was it something where you thought, Okay, I like
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: this guy. I'm going to fall in line with what
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: he wants to do, because it was or is that
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: something that you wanted to do?
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: No? I was, I was like, what the fuck? Oh wait,
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: I thought I'd met my guy. I thought I'd met
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: the one, my prince in shining armor, except you know
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: modern times. So we were on a ski slope, right
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: and I, you know, I met this guy. We had
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: instant chemistry. We had this sort of whirlwind, wonderful, you know,
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: like rom come worthy first couple of months of dating,
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: and then I feel like he you know, I feel
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: like this idea exploring an open relationship came out of nowhere.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: And what's so funny is like the words he used
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: were probably were probably along the lines of like, Hey,
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: I have this idea. It's something I want to explore.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: Would you be open to considering an open relationship. It
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: wasn't an ultimatum. It wasn't even a like I want
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: to do this. It was let's explore this. And even
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: that made me feel angry, pissed off, embarrassed, Like, all
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: of a sudden, I tell my friends that this guy
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: that I thought was the one now I want to
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: explore an open relationship.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: Get to me, that'd be a huge red flag. I'd
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: be like, oh, so you just want to cheat on me,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: So then why have you in a relationship?
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, But that's where I started to like, that's absolutely
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: where I started to I think where I started to
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: come around to the idea is that it was something
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: that we were just exploring. We spent a year, You're
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: just doing research and talking about it, and you know, like,
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: what could this look like. And I understood his why,
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: which was, like, you know, he wanted to affair proof
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: the relationship. That's where it started for him. And at
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: that time, I didn't have a why, Like I didn't
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: have a very clear why I want to be in
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: an open relationship. I do now. I'm bisexual. I enjoy
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: dating both men and women. I find this incredible level
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: of freedom. I feel like my partner enables me to
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: have a bigger life than I would if it was,
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: you know, just just the two of us. I feel
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: like we've created a relationship that's really tailored to us
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: and nobody else. And I see, you know this, I
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: see this open relationship of ours is now kind of
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: more of a mindset than anything else. You know, we're
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: we're going to figure things out. We're going to change
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: as our desires do, as our libidos do, as our
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: interest and other people do. Is the things that we
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  Speaker 2: want to explore do, and our relationship has enough flexibility
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: to kind of evolve as we do. I couldn't have
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: told you that fifteen years ago. I was like, what right?
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  Speaker 1: Who was he? The first person to step out though?
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  Speaker 1: And I guess it's not stepping out when you're technically
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  Speaker 1: signing up for it, but.
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  Speaker 2: We took baby steps. It's interesting I think seeing open
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  Speaker 2: relationships portrayed in films and movies and so film and
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: TV nowadays, and even on social media, and also so
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: many people I've talked to in this process because I
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: think people are like, Okay, great, let's explore an open relationship.
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  Speaker 2: And then it's like they go and have a threesome
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: or like they go and like have a relationship with
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: someone else for a weekend. I was like, wow, it
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: feels like you're jumping into a deep end with sharks.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: In our case, we talked about it. I kissed someone,
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: We talked about it. He kissed someone, We talked about it.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: I went on a date and didn't do anything, and
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: we talked about it, and then he did, and then
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: we talked about it. And we went to a swingers
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: club but didn't do anything, and we talked about Then
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: we went to swingers club and did a few things,
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: then talked about it. You know, there was for us,
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: it was definitely a progression and of baby steps where
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: we were constantly checking in, Okay, how do you feel
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: how even little things like he kissed someone? It was like,
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: how do I feel about the fact that he kissed someone?
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: And I had to actually go through that entire process.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, him kissing someone else doesn't take
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: away from him kissing me. He had an experience that
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: kind of brought him joy, and how do I feel
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: about that? You know? And so I think that with
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: taking those baby step per aggressions, we were able to
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: kind of tiptoe into is does this make you uncomfortable? Okay?
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: Do we want to stop or do we want to
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: figure something out? Yeah? I don't recommend for anyone opening
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: up a relationship. I don't recommend, you know, immediately going
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: off and having another relationship with another person. I feel
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: like that's too much, too soon, But it definitely happens,
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: plenty of people do it.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: How much of your fifteen years has it been monogamous?
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Would you think, Oh, that's a good question, about two
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: years in total, maybe two and a half out of
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: the fifteen.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Were those happy years or were those more volatile years?
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Or I'm curious, like what the difference between when you
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: were monogamous and when you guys were with other partners?
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that so, as I said, fifteen years
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: of our relationship there have been. So we had a
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: phase of monogamy when my son was born, because I
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: don't know if you're a parent or your parent.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Yes, I've got three kids. We've got three kids and
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: a step son.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: So you probably know that when your kids are young,
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: you don't have enough time to like sleep or date
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: each other.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: I'm exhausted exactly.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're like, I I'm if I can get dinner
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: on a table like half the nights of the week.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: So that phase of monogamy I think was just kind
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: of natural. You know. There was all We're so excited
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: to be parents. We wanted to spend so much time together,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: so much time with our son, and I think we
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: kind of woke up one day and we're like, oh,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: we've been monogamous for a year. Cool, that was it.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: It was not a big deal.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm astericking real fast, so I don't forget.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: How do you what do you tell how old your kid?
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: Our son is eleven, my daughter elevens sweet?
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Sweet? So when they're older, is this something that you
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: guys are going to tell them? Because obviously your stuff
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: is on social media, so they're going to be watching
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: social media. So is it something that I mean, have
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: you talked to them about it? Or are you going
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: to or what are you going to say? And then
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: what are you I guess modeling then for what a
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: marriage looks like and for their values and opinions around
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: it all.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so my son already knows. We told him about
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: a year and a bit ago. It was. I mean,
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: it was a pretty easy casual conversation at that time.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: And I think I think there's a couple of things. So,
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: first of all, my children know better than anyone else
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: how much my husband and I love each other. They
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: see it every day and they're raised in the household
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: with it every day, and they do not see us
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: dating other people. And it sounds like you're divorced.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: I'm married now. Oh, you're married now, but you asked
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: to a lovely man, Yes, the man that cheated. I
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: do have two kids with and then one with the new.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: How long did it take you to introduce your new
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: partner to your existing kids?
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Oh? Man, let's see oct I met in October, November, December, January.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: But three and a half months.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: Oh, interesting, we actually waited. We wait longer than that. Yeah,
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: So if we're in serious relationships with someone else, which
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: has only happened twice in our fifteen years.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Oh, so you introduce them to people that you're with.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: We've introduced them as friends of friends.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: We got it, got it in using But.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, it takes a long time to introduce someone
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: that's an important part of your life to your children.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: And it took us, you know, we waited I think
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: five and then six months to introduce anyone to our kids.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: But when we told our son, and we told him like,
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Mom and we love each other very much, we're in
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: an open relationship. What we have other people we really
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: care about. We have other people that we have feelings for,
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: and one of them you've met. And so then we
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: were able to say, like this person who you've met
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: in the past, who was introduced as a friend of
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: the family, you know you had a great experience with
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: that person, Like that's someone that mom and didn't care
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: about as well. So I think it's we're pretty Oh
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: it's funny. These feel like such hard conversations to have
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: without a lot of content, without the entire context. But
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: I think that when we tell our son what we're
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: modeling to answer your question, like what do we model
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: for our kids. We're very careful with what we tell
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: them and when. What we're telling our son when he's ten,
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: when he was ten, which is when we told him,
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: will be a little bit different than the conversations we
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: have with him when he's eighteen. Right when we introduce
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: our children to people that we were dating, which again
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: has only happened twice as a friend of a family member,
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: because honestly, it's kind of true. It's true. It's someone
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: like we care about, it's someone we would love to
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: introduce to our children. But we're careful how we do that.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: The way that we talk to our children is about
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: love and about relationships and about caring for people. We're
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: not talking to our children about sex. We don't talk
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: to about our children about our sex lives. It's not
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: like we're going to talk to them about like sex
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: lives with other people. Well, it's crazy, and I think
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: that long term, the thing that I hope to model
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: for my kids is that you know, we're in a
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: relationship that works for us that took us a long
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: time to figure out, that we constantly support each other
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: through all these huge changes, and we're also kind of
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: living pretty authentically and we figured out a relationship that
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: allows us to do so. And I'm hoping that by
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: living this authentically and like, by by creating the relationship
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: that works for me, my kids will not only feel
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: like they have permission to do so themselves, but they'll
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: see it. They'll see that, oh, mom and dad did it.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: I can definitely do this too, no matter what that
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: looks like for my kids.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Okay, So what happens if you so these people that
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: you have introduced your kids to obviously were someone that
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: was they you said you were dating. What happens if
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: you really catch feelings and you want to be with
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: just them?
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: I guess we'll figure it out.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Is that something you guys have talked about or we.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: Have definitely talked about. It's only once where my husband
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: was dating someone and we had the conversations like what
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: if she lived with us? Like, okay, how would that
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: look like? But it wasn't something she was interested in
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: and could it happen? Yeah? But I guess there's also
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: this thing, is like, if either of us fell in
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: love with someone else and loved that person more than
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: each other, would we go and be monogamous with that person?
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Probably not? I mean, we're in an open relationship. We've been.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: I know that people use the terms open relationship and polyamory.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: I tend to use them interchangeably. But if I was
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: feeling if I was polyamorous, So if I was in
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: a romantic, committed relationship with someone else as well as
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: a romantic committed relationship with my husband, we would figure
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: out how that works. It's hard for me to imagine
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: leaving this incredible life that I've built with my husband
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: and our kids and our family for someone else, given
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: the fact that, for lack of a better word, I
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: get to have both.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Right. But here's my question, though, I guess, and I'm
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: sure you hear this all the time too, is why
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: be married at all? Then?
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: I want it to be, But.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: You're not with that just that person marriage is if
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: you I mean, I guess, let's I don't know the
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: actual definition is, but to me, it's the married to
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: one person, and you're I don't know, I mean, maybe
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: that's the old school mentality with it, where it's like,
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: I guess you're changing with the typical old school version
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: of what a marriage is.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that is what we're doing, and I
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: think you're seeing it. I think you're seeing it more
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: and more nowadays. You're seeing a lot of people who,
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: you know, feel like their gender is very fluid, their
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: sexuality is very fluid. And so for someone who is
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: expressing you know, bisexuality, pan sexuality and feels like they're
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: you know, their generous fluid or they then also expected
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: to only be in a monogamous married relationship as their goal.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: You know, I think that the constructs and the goals
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: of relationships are going to look very different ten years
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: from now for this upcoming generation. I think that I
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: don't know about you, but I'm forty one, so I
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: feel like I'm sort of in that in between phase
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: between you know, my parents' generation and their definition of
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: what a really great marriage looks like and what the
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: next generation is going to look like. And I guess
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: I guess an to flip it on, to turn this
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: on its head. Do you think that a marriage is
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: more than sexual exclusivity?
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Do I think a marriage is more than sexual exclusivity?
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: Do you think that sexual exclusivity is the most important
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: thing to marry.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: In a marriage? Yeah? Interesting, Okay, I do, But again
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: that's my how I was. I guess brought up thinking that,
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, my parents, it's got divorced because my dad cheated.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: You know, So what is marriage a man and a
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: woman staying faithfully together. I guess that's my yeah, and
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: then just to get the old school values around it all.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: But again, I've messed up many times where I'm not
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: messed up, but I've I've had had multiple marriages because
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: you know, I've been trying to find that marriage that
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: I ideal, that I dreamt of as a as a
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: gal girl. Right, So I've married the wrong people in
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: that quest, but I do I personally could never open
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: up a marriage, and I love having conversations with people,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: you know that have different differing views and opinions, and
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: I see how it can work for other people. I personally,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: going through what I've been through with my ex, I
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: don't see a world where, you know, Even Alan and
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: I joked when we were in the car after watching
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: splits Pille and I'm like, I don't mean to be
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: closed off around it. I was like, but if you
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: ever came to me with that, there's just no way
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: in hell I would be okay with it, like ever.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: And he's like, He's like, same, you know, but you know,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: I do think there were some people that can work.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: And what are you know, for you guys, how has
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: it made you guys stronger in your marriage having this
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: open relationship?
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: So I would say that right now you're seeing in
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: the US, I think it's four to five percent of
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: the US population rec is consensually non monogamous, So it
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: means that like ninety five percent of the population is monogamous. Like,
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: monogamy is what works for most people, and I think
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: so to your question was like, kind of what makes
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: it work for us?
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, how how has it strengthened your marriage? You know,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: like what is what is the positive you know in it?
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: I think the positive for us is I mean, I
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: will say the level of transparency, you know, And I
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: think that the kind of going back to the betrayal,
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: right when I when my husband brought the idea and said,
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: let's a fair proof the relationship, one of the biggest
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: conversations that we had was like complete transparency and how
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: important that was to us. And I think even if
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: we decided to be monogamous, like even if we'd gone
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: through this whole process of exploring an open relationship and
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: then a couple of years in decide, you know what
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: we want to be in monigamous, which is absolutely an
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: option on the table. I think that we would have
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: really learned a couple of things about our relationship anyway,
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: which is how important transparency is. It's like, I do
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: I want to know if you're attracted to someone, if
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: you're hanging out with friends, Like I want to like
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: have that level of detail because I care about you.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Well, it's a level of deep honesty too, and like
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: really knowing your partner because there's so many closeted people.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: I'm not just talking about their preferences, but when it
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: comes to them not knowing what their fetishes are or
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: they're you know what I mean, because they're too afraid
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: to say anything exactly or be judged or yeah.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: I mean this is that again. Kind of going on
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: that note, you know, I think in my mid thirties
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: there were things that I wanted to try sexually, and
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: because we have this level of transparency, it was really
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: easy for me to go to my partner be like,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: so I have an idea.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, I could say how that'd be so liberating
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: and open and free and then being so connected because deep,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: true transparency and honesty is the most connective thing for couples.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I feel like that at its foundation has
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: nothing to do with the relationship style. Monogamous not monagamous,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter. I feel like I get to go to
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: my partner and say there's something I want to try.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: I'm feeling this, I feel you know, I desire this.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: I'm not feeling desirable. I want to try this thing
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: that's new. I want to be pushed outside of my
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: comfort zone. And I think the difference with my partner
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: and I is most of those things, like we will
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: kind of figure out together, but there is this element
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: which is like, okay, Danielle, Like, if I wanted to
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: try something that my husband doesn't necessarily want to or
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: doesn't enjoy, then I have an opportunity to go and
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: explore that and experience that with someone else, and it
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: could be a friend. Right. I'm a big outdoor enthusiast,
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: a ski I love hiking. My husband does not. My
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: husband needs a goal. He's like, oh, we're hiking. We're
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: hiking from point A to point B. And I'm like, no,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: it's about flowers and the views and like experience. He's like, no,
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: it'd be and so I get to have those experiences, yes,
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: with my friends who will do all these things with me,
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: but also I think some other in some other ways,
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: you know, especially from you'd mentioned kind of like kinks
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: and getting to explore things outside of your comfort zone.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: I get to do that. I get to I kind
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: of have all of the options available to me, including
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: the options that my husband might necessarily not be interested in.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: For sure. I have a question when you are exploring
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: or want to explore something, do you I don't know,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: is there apps for this or do you? And then
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: when when you do meet someone, do you say I
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: am married? Like you have to go through all that
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: right obviously that's probably a boundary for your husband.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Oh yes, So total transparency on my dating profiles, I
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: say I'm married, I'm not monogamous with two kids. And interestingly,
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: I think because dating apps have changed so much that
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: you do have dating apps that are dedicated to the
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: non monogamous, polyamorous spaces now feel hashtag open. I believe
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: even some of the other more standard ones have you know,
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: have drop downs now where you can select interested in
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: being open, nominogamous, et cetera. So I think that that's
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: probably right now, the easiest way to kind of to
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: find people that you're interested in dating. I also kind
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: of meet a lot of people in real life. I
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: think one of the things that the thing about being
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: in an open relationship, I am not always dating. I
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: think that there's this perception because I'm an oship, Oh
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: my god, I must be having sex with everybody.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: I was like, No, such a good point.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: I still have enough like years and toast account everybody, Like, seriously, guys,
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: it's not that crazy and so and I think, what's
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: but I think what's interesting is that if I do
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: meet someone, I have a connection, there's no limit to
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: what that connection could be. You know. It could be
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: it could be a just really intimate friendship. It could
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: be a friend with benefits. It could be a comment,
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: it could be a one night stand, it could be
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: something that evolves into a deeper relationship. It's like, I'm
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: very rarely just like on a mission to date and
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: find someone. That's almost never happened. It's much more that
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: I get to live life, and then the people that
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: kind of come into my life, I get to say, like, oh,
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: is this friends or is this you know, the entire
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: rainbow of other options that are actually available bull to
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: me because of my open relationship style.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Got it? Okay, you have a okay question? Because this
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: has happened. I know how this has happened to someone before.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: But someone had told a girlfriend of mine that they
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: were in an open marriage, but come to find out
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: they were not an open marriage, and that was just
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: what he was saying. So and that's called cheating. Yeah.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Have you run into that where people are on these
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: sites and they're saying they're in the open marriage, but really,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: like you come to find out that this like the
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: wife or the husband is actually not okay with it.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: I hate that this happens, and it happens so for
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: anyone listening. So I'm openly committed. Up on social channels,
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: I talk about my experiences, stories, recommendations for anyone exploring
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: non monogamy. And I think that this one is a
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: huge pet peeve of mine because I think that it
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: really it doesn't endjusice to most people who are in
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: an open relationship. It's I think it's one of the
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: things because in open relationships and polyamory are trending. It's
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: become something that people can say more easily when they're
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: just cheating, and I hate that that's the case. It
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: has happened to me twice where you know, would be like, oh,
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: this is really really interesting. But I think when you've
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: been in an open relationship for a long time, you
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: can start to ask questions and then the red flags
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: go up. So I will always ask someone like, hey, like,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: what are your boundaries? You know, what are the things
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: that are discussed in your existing relationship? What are the
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: agreements that you have with your partner? And the simple
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: question is like, does your partner or you're on a
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: date with me right now. I have dated people who
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: have what's called a don't ask, don't tell policy in
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: their relationship, and you just you just ask a couple
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: more questions. And I have requested to like FaceTime or
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: text message a partner before. But honestly, if I'm getting
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: a spider sense that this person's not really open, I'm
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: not going there. I'm not interested. And I think on
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: the flip side of it, my husband has been on
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: dates with women before and they ask to FaceTime me.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: And what is that like? Like? Truthfully, like you're like, hey, Carl,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: like what We're like, Yeah, like what there isn't like
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: a percentage I know, the fifteen year. But okay, so
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: now let's say at the fifteen year, there isn't like
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: a little piece that's one percent little jealous.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: Oh oh, of course there is. No. Here's the You
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: want to know what the arc is?
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I'm like, I know, it's like all fun
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: and dandy and like you guys are like at this
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: fifteen like happy and like.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Fun and we're learning all kinds of new things, especially
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: like and now I'm public on social media, like that's
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: feeling jealousy in a whole different way, and all kinds
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: of new issues and communication tactics. Okay, here's the arc.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: If my part, if my husband's going on a date.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: At first, like I'll help him get ready and I'll
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: be like, oh, wear the blue shirt. You look really
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: good in that one. Like okay, no, no, it's like
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: you're like you help him get ready for the date.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: And then let's say this is all hypothetical, but all
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: of these things have happened in different different situations. And
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: then let's say he like he texts me like, oh
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: the date's going really well. I'm excited. I'm be like yay.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: But then I'll be like, wait, hold on a second.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: If you're on a date, that means like I'm here
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: with the kids and they're freaking out and I am
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: seriously negotiating vegetables while you are on to have a
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: nice date on a nice date, what the fuck? And
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: then he'll message me like, hey, can you FaceTime her
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: really quick? And I'll be like, Okay, no questions, ask
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: no matter what I'm going through, of course I'm going
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: to say yes to like a quick FaceTime. You'll do
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: the face time, and then in my head I'm like, oh,
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: is she cuter? Is she prettier? Like it's like, what's happening?
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: And then there'll be this thing is like, oh, my
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: husband's on a date with a really attractive husband, Like woman,
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: go him. And then I'll be like wait a minute.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: And then, for whatever reason the date doesn't work out.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: I'll have this moment of relief, and then I'll be
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: a little bit annoyed, like I'm sorry, he's amazing. What
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: the heck were you thinking? Not like continuing a date
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: with him? So it's like every emotion you can imagine
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: will prop.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: Child If you went to your husband and said I
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: don't want to do this anymore. Do you think he
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: would stay and not do it?
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah, I think now we've been I think now
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: if I went to him tomorrow and said, hey, I
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: want to be monogamous, I think he would say yes. Absolutely.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: He struggles with how public I am right?
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: This was my next question, how open is he about
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: all of this? With with what you're sharing on social media?
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: You know. The creating a TikTok was his idea originally
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: was because I was like, oh, I'm gonna write a
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: blog and share some of these stories. He's like, that's nice, honey,
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: Like here it is, no one's reading a blog and
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: make a TikTok. And so the first couple of videos
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: went quite viral, and for the first four months of
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: the TikTok, he was in a lot of my videos
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: and like sharing his perspective as well. And I think
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: the negativity and the criticism and just the hate comments
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: became really overwhelming, and he said to me, like, I
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: don't want this in my life, Like this is this
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: is taking up too much mental load. The comments I
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: get are awful and untrue, Like I'd like to not
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: be included anymore. I was like, great. So all of
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: his all of his videos that he was in are gone.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: And I think that he is a much more private
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: person than I am, and that's even reflected in our
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: agreements and how we communicate with one another. He yeah,
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: So I think if I went to answer your question,
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: if I went to him and said, Hey, I want
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: to be monogamous, would you be okay with that? He'd
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: say yes. If he came to me and said, oh,
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: I want to be monogamous, I would probably really struggle.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: I am getting a lot of experiences and fulfillment, you know,
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: being able to be open and being able to go
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: and have these experiences that he doesn't enjoy. And right
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: now I feel like I get to live all versions
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: of myself. I get to be a wife, I get
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: to be a wonderful mother, I get to this incredible partnership,
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: and I get to be you know, I'm forty. I'm
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: more confident in my looks and my body, and you
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: know how I want to experiment and the things that
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: I want to do and going after my own desires
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: than I ever was in my twenties and thirties, and
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: I would be I would really struggle to let go
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: of that there are plenty of ways that I could
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: express it with, just like friends and then non sexual
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: partners in my life. But it's I feel like I
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: don't have limits and I'm really enjoining that at the moment.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: What's better a man or a woman. I've never been
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: with a woman, so I don't know.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: I don't think this has to do with gender. I
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: think it's just the individuals. I mean, I know that
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: that's such like a cliche answer at this point in time,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: but very different, very fun in different ways. I love
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: having both. I love that I get to experience both.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: I don't want to compare. I don't want to have
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: to choose one or the other.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Do you think if people were if more people followed
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: in the path of an open marriage, there would be
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: less divorce because of you know, the fact that the
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: it's open, open menu for people if they want no.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: I actually don't think so. I would usually recommend an
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: open relationship to most people, but I would recommend some
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: of the mentality. I would recommend them open mentality, and
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: I would probably recommend going through the process that most
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: people who are in an open relationship have to go to.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: To just about any couple and Like I said at
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: the beginning, it's like, define cheating. I think one of
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: the number one recommendations I would give to any couple,
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: whether the monogamous or not, define cheating is your partner
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: texting someone else? Does that count as cheating? What about
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: watching porn? What about messaging with an ex girlfriend? What
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: about spending time with co workers late at night but
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: they don't tell you about it? You know, what about
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: sexy texting with a chat bot? Right? Oh my god,
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: the fact that that comes up into my DMS all
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: the time right now? Is wild people having open relationships
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: with chat bots? That is happening. It's beyond my imagination.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: But like, those are all conversations really worth having, like
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: define cheating, And then I think, figure out how to
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: have difficult conversations because the number one thing that I
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: think you have to do an open relationship is like
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: what happens when you are attracted to someone else? What
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: happens when you're jealous? How do you have difficult conversations?
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: And usually there's like methods around it. Like my husband
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: and I will sit down on a couch across from
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: each other and say, like, okay, for the next hour,
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: we're gonna have tough conversations and then we're good, and
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: then we're gonna go and we're gonna snuggle and have
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: a wonderful rest of the night, you know. And so
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: I think that's an important thing for all couples to do.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: And if you're non monogamost, you have to do it.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: You have to figure out how to have those tough conversations.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: It's interesting you say, though, that you don't actually recommend it,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: or that you like you wouldn't be like, yeah, you should,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: you should try it, given you're so happy in it
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: and fulfilled.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen the other side of it too often, I.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Think, which is the people not following the boundaries or
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: it the people leaving other people? Like, what is the
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: part that is the biggest X for this?
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: You know? It's interesting because you started this off with
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: like affairs and cheating.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Sorry, just no's I think.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: That I've seen because if you would have talked to
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: me four years ago, long before I was on social media,
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: I would have said, I do recommend an open relationship
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: everyone because of how happy we are and how it's
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: how wonderful it's been for us. Since then, I've talked
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: to probably a thousand people about opening up their relationship,
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: and I've talked to so many people who were hurt
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: in the process us because they felt like they were
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: being cheated on even though they had agreed to it.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: But again, it was would I recommend it. I would
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: recommend it to anyone who who feels like they can
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: figure out what it takes in their relationship to have
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: freedom and commitment at the same time, because I think
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: a lot of long term relationships. I don't know about you,
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: but like, the one of the things that I love
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: about my marriage is it's so stable, It's so structured,
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: like there's so much deep trust. Our foundation is rock solid.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: And I think because we have that rock solid foundation,
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: it also means there's not that much mystery, there's not
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: that much sort of butterflies in your stomach. The romanticism
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: disappears and dissipates after a while. It takes a lot
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: of effort to have romance once you have a really
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: stable environment. I think one of the things in an
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: open relationship, kind of going back to the other question
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: of the benefits for me personally, is an open relationship
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: is how we have to say I did to have
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: a strong, stable, foundation of a committed, trusting relationship, but
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: then allow each other to have the mystery and excitement,
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: the butterflies, the unknowing and instability outside of our marriage,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: so that we kind of get to have both in
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: our lives. Yeah, and I think that there are a
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: lot of ways that a couple can achieve that. Some
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: couples who are monogamous, it's role play. Other couples it's
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: like the one crazy vacation they do a year. There
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: are a lot of ways to have that balance of
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: kind of stability and structure and mystery and surprise in
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: a relationship, and an open relationship isn't the only way
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: to go about doing so, but it's I think the
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: way that has worked the best for us.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting too, d Yeah, that you say about
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: the you know people saying, well, I said, you know,
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: he could do it, and then he did it. Now
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: it feels like cheating because I think many women might
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: fall in line with being like, yeah, no, that sounds great,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: but when it actually happens, it's it feels like a betrayal.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I wrote a little bit about this at one point,
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: but I when I was opening up a relationship, I
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: got to a point where I was said, Okay, I
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: think I'm ninety five percent certain I want to try
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: an open relationship, and at that point in time, you
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: just have to take the leap and find out. And
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: I think that leap can be really scary because you've
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: had all the conversations, you've figured out all the agreements,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: you know how you're going to communicate, you've defined cheating,
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: and then you take the first step, and you never
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: know how that first step is going to go. It
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: might feel like cheating. You might have this thing happen
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: like and all of a sudden, your entire body is
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: telling you this isn't right. I can't do this, I
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: don't want to do this anymore. Yeah, it's okay, that's
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: absolutely okay, now you know. And I used to back
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: and you're like, okay, this is the really Now monogamy
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: is what works for me now I know.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: Right, And I think, like you said, it all comes
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: back to the honesty because I remember one time and
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: this might have classified me as an open relationship. I
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: don't know, but where my ex husband, I said, I
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: don't care, like I if you end up cheating on
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: me again, like I just need you to tell me.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to divorce you, like, I just need
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: you to be honest because the main thing in the
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: end for me was all it was never about the act.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: It was about the lie. Like and that was what
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: killed us in the end, was never the act, always
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: the lie. And so you know, I think you know
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: you're having tough conversations. I'm sorry people because they don't
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: agree with your way of living in your marriage. People
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: come on and be hateful. I hate that. Again. I
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: might not agree with your choices, but I love that
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: you that were able to have a conversation. I think
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: that's what's so great about it. And you know, you're
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: you're sharing your life and what works for you and
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: helping people online. So where can our listeners find you
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: and follow along in that journey? And kindness? People be
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: kind when you follow along because listen, it's like everyone's
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: putting our you know, ourselves out there and we don't
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: have to agree, but you can still be kind.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: Definitely you can find me it openly committed. So Nielle
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: openly committed.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: Perfect title, too perfect name on.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: There across all channels. Do you mind if I ask
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: if of all the things that I just talked about
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: and kind of like, what I think it takes to
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: make an open relationship work? And I have this like
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: open mentality. What one of the what's one of the
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: things from what I've discussed today that you feel like
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: would benefit either you or any monogamous couple kind of
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: based on what we've discussed.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: I think the having that again, that real deep transparency,
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: and I think being able to sit down and just
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: be like, what do you like? What do you and
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: having that conversation you know, because I don't. I mean,
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: I guess me and my husband have talked about that,
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: but it's it can be an intimate and uncomfortable conversation,
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: you know, and vulnerable. Yeah. So I think, you know,
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: just sitting down with the with your partner and just
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: having full transparency of what sexually you would like and
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: how that can open up your marriage how you both
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: want it to open up.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: But I think you're beautiful and wonderful and thank you
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: for coming on.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. This is very fun.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Thanks Danielle for your vulnerability and sharing what your unique
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: love story has looked like. This has been an eye
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: opening conversation. Are you contemplating a non traditional relationship in
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: your chapter two. Starting to date and need some advice,
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: call us or email us. All the info is in
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: the show notes. Follow us on socials. Make sure to
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: rate and review the podcast. I do part two at
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: iHeartRadio podcast, where falling in love is the main objective