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Wisdom Under Fire: What Gets Measured Gets Managed · Unspoken Career Truths

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  Welcome to unspoken career truths.
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  I'm Cara Wood. And I'm Lauren Levac Gilbert.
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  And we're here to be the coworkers you can trust.
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  In just 10 minutes, we'll cover the strategies you need, the
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  mistakes to avoid, and the insider secrets no one tells you
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  so you can show up with confidence at work.
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  Hello everyone, welcome back to a Wisdom Under Fire episode
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  where we debate popular phrases. To see if they're accurate.
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  And if they're actually good advice, One of my favorite kinds
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  of episodes. I don't know about you, Carl.
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  I do like a good argument. And I like that we always have
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  different opinions, which is great.
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  Yeah. So today's phrase, what gets
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  measured gets managed. And 1st, where did this phrase
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  come from? So the phrase was wildly
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  attributed to Peter Drucker, and he's an influential management
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  thinker and author. He said if you can't measure it,
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  you can't improve it, and basically he was trying to
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  emphasize the importance of tracking your outcomes in order
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  to measure performance, which makes a lot of sense.
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  Yeah, I didn't know this was attributed to him.
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  The phrase is one that I know like I personally say a lot in
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  my day-to-day and the what it really actually means and like
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  the meaning that most people like how they use it is that
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  things that are tracked or reported are visible.
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  They get attention and the things that aren't, they can
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  kind of slip through the cracks and no matter how people they
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  are. So things like if your bonus is
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  attached to something, then you'll definitely make sure you
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  do it. If you are told that if you
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  reach this milestone you'll get XYZ, then you'll definitely do
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  it. So that's kind of how would you.
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  Do you have any other interpretations, Carl?
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  Well, it's interesting because like I said, I've, I read Peter
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  Ducker back in grad school and yet I, I didn't hear this phrase
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  until I worked in startups. So like over a decade later.
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  But I think the concept of what you're paying attention to is
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  what matters is important. But then I also have seen people
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  like either over index or kind of say, well, if we put it on
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  the dashboard, then we'll care about it.
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  But I think there's a caveat, which is like how many metrics
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  do you have on the dashboard? Because this can be a really
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  powerful thing when you have one or two and you're really like
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  focused on it. But as soon as you're like, hey,
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  if we attach a number, then it's handled.
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  You're in for a world to hurt. Yeah, too many metrics doesn't
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  help anyone. Yeah, and I actually first came
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  about this phrase in corporate America when I started working
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  in CPG land. And it was a phrase that came up
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  a lot. And I really agree with it
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  because I think it's human nature, right?
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  Like as humans, you're trying to like get to a goal or trying to
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  achieve something. And especially if something is
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  tied to like a monetary goal, like a bonus or your pay
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  structure or any sort of compensation, then you're
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  definitely going to try and go for it because that's kind of
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  naturally how people work in in the working world.
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  So I tend to really agree with it.
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  And also, if you don't have a clear path or clear North Star,
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  then it's kind of really hard to figure out what is important and
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  what you should be focusing on. So I tend to agree with it too.
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  But I also think that, and I heard Andy Jassi speak once and
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  it was really cool. I heard him talk about
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  measurement differently rather than like a traditional KPI or
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  like, hey, you need to meet this goal or here's X percent of
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  sales. He was talking about measuring
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  people on how much they experiment and how much they
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  fail, and I don't think a lot of people measure that, but that's
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  actually also a great indication of success.
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  Yeah, it's funny because as you were talking about this, I was
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  thinking about two things. 1 is, like you said, sometimes there
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  are projects that at the start of them you actually don't know
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  which measure matters. We've been talking about this
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  ourselves. As this podcast grows, what is
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  the thing? What is the metric that we
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  should pay attention to? And I think that happens a lot
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  when a it's a new project or it's a new type of project.
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  So that can be a little pitfall if you think that the end all be
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  all is, you know, again, what measure gets managed because you
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  might be like, actually, I need to kind of see what all these
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  measurements are telling me before I pick the one or two to
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  monetize or award. And then the other thing that I
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  was thinking about was just you said that kind of again, like
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  he's talking about failure. And I do think there are some
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  people who have that mindset where it's like, let's really
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  celebrate what failing. Well, looks like.
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  Where this phrase has come to the most value is when I've been
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  a manager. Because even if it's not like a
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  direct, hey, I know if you make 15 calls a day, like we're going
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  to sell all the widgets, I might not know that answer, but it
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  gives me something in a framework to talk to my people
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  about. And so I think the same thing.
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  If you're measuring failure and you're saying, actually, I want
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  you to like try things, then you're just telling people what
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  you value. And you're like, I want to keep
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  having conversations about what mistakes you made and like and
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  talk about why they failed and what you learned.
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  I think that's a great call out, Cara.
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  And we, we talk about value on the podcast a lot and that is
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  really great for someone to think about, right?
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  Like if your manager is looking at a specific metric, then
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  they're putting a lot of value on that.
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  And it's important to them and it's important to understand why
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  they're valuing that or why the company is valuing that metric,
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  right? That it just gives you more
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  insight into kind of the inner workings of the company itself.
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  So I actually love that call out.
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  I think that's great, Cara. My wisdom under fire self has to
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  like at least find a couple of holes to poke.
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  And I think they are sort of like poking around.
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  But I was, I was thinking about like roles I've had where there
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  have been things that you do everyday and they're like you're
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  tracking and you're measuring. When I can think of is like when
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  you're working in the foods industry space, you often like
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  capture what's clean for OSHA and just make sure you're like
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  constantly kind of like following the same checklist and
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  it's all captured, but it almost becomes something a, maybe it
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  becomes something that's like super rote or B, it becomes
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  something that you like, you know, where, what spaces to mop
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  the floor and like which corner gets maybe a little bit
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  neglected because of where the picture gets taken.
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  So there are ways like I think every, you know, person, there
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  are ways that like your numbers, if they aren't discussed and
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  like analyzed, they get taken for granted in like a larger
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  system. So I would say that this is
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  another place where if you're thinking that like if it's, if
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  there's some calculation, it's it's under control, not if
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  you're not analyzing what you're actually measuring.
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  And I know my answer to these is usually it depends, but this one
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  I am fully in support of. What gets measured gets managed.
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  But to your point about poking holes, I would say the one hole
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  I would poke is if you have a role that's not clearly tied to
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  a number metric but has influence.
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  And I'm in a lot of those roles. So I'm in a lot of like
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  community engagement roles and thought leadership roles.
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  And yes, there's numbers that you can measure downloads or
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  podcast listens, but a lot of the influence that you drive is
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  within the community and within the conversations that are
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  happening. And that's much harder to
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  measure. So if you're in a role that's
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  like a bit more ambiguous, it's also great to one, talk to other
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  people who have that role because you can understand kind
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  of how they're measuring it, but also make sure you're clear on
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  like what success looks like, even if it's not a number value.
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  Yeah, it's funny because so I actually use this.
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  What measure gets managed? I I said it's helpful when I'm a
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  manager, but I actually use it in my daily life a lot because
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  as you know, Lauren, I freaking love numbers.
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  So it will be no surprise to you that I have a graph every month
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  I like make up a new graph and I like track my habits.
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  It's the Seinfeld approach of like don't break the trend.
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  And I look at what metrics? Like I could tell you right now,
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  like last month, 60% of the time I went on a mile walk.
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  Like I love that kind of data, but it doesn't it again, it's
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  like useful to me because I take joy in the the personal metrics
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  of it, but that metric alone doesn't matter until I look at
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  it and then say, well, why the 40% of the time that I not was
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  it always raining? You know, Hey, that could just
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  be the reason. Or is it, you know, I didn't get
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  up in time, whatever. And then I can, what can I
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  adjust and then maybe measure that.
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  So often times I'll like change my metric.
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  And so for someone who's in a role that they're like, my stuff
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  isn't measured like neatly, I would say keep adjusting your
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  metric because the first month community engagement might be
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  you talk to 15 people or you measured how many people you
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  spoke to. And then the next month might be
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  like, how many of those people engaged and shared the
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  information or you know, how or what was the mood of the forum
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  like might become a more important metric.
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  So I think if you're in a role where you're like there's no
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  obvious number, then keep experimenting with what that
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  what that actual metric might be as your role progresses.
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  I love that, Kara, and I think the keyword that I heard there
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  is visibility. It gives you visibility to what
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  you're doing. It's eye opening.
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  It gives you data to make decisions.
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  So if we're thinking about kind of what you're measuring and how
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  you're managing in, no matter if you like the concept or don't,
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  there's a couple of things that you can try to think about as
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  you're looking at your role or your specific job.
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  So first one is really kind of understanding what success looks
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  like. We've talked about that defining
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  set success and also finding success early.
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  So what are the quick wins like understanding from your
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  leadership? Like what does success look like
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  to them? What are some of the things that
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  are important to them and how are you going to think about
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  measuring that up? Then the other thing would be
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  quantify things if you can. If not, try to determine how
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  you're going to talk about those things.
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  So for example, when I was talking about community
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  engagement and thought leadership, I track the
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  conversations that I have. So how many conversations was I
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  was was IA part of and what are the topics that I talked about?
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  So that gives me a sense of are people interested in this and
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  are they engaged with it? So that can turn into a metric,
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  even though it might not be a you need to find X percent of
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  meetings and they have to have X percent of impact.
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  And then the other thing is track your own wins.
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  I'm a big proponent of this. I do this every week.
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  I look at what was a really big win I had.
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  Was I able to get any engagement?
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  Who did I meet with? Like just keep a doc and every
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  week just talk about things that you did and it can be numbers,
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  it can be meetings, it can be influenced, it can be
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  engagement. Just track your wins because
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  it's hard at the end of the year when you're trying to reflect to
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  be like, I did all these amazing things.
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  But if you do it throughout the year and you do it on a regular
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  cadence, it also helps you showcase what you've done and
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  your value and what you've provided to the role.
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  Yeah. And I just want to say that this
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  is one of those mantras that can be also flipped on its head.
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  Like if you have a boss that is a sort of what gets measured
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  matters and managed, then think about the things that they might
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  have a blind spot to because they're not getting the metrics
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  for them. And the ways that you can
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  communicate those, especially if they are the ignored corner,
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  unswept corner in the room. Like what are those in your in
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  your job? And we've talked about this in a
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  previous podcast, but understanding what motivates
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  people. So understanding to your point,
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  Cara, whether it's your boss or your leadership team, like what
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  are they focused on and how can you kind of ladder up what
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  you're doing to help support them?
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  Yeah, because often leadership is like they've got a lot of
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  metrics, but there's probably like the one or two that they
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  talk about on a daily basis. So if you can buy your value to
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  that, that's a great place to be.
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  Agreed. OK, so to close out, remember
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  it's human nature to want to have some sort of structure and
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  to want to measure success and understand values.
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  So just try to understand the human element to it, how you
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  feel about it, what success looks like to you, what success
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  looks like to your organization. Track your progress, whether
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  it's for yourself or for your team.
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  It just really helps see progress year over year.
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  And just be clear to yourself on what you're trying to achieve
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  and what your goals are. Yeah.
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  And remember, there are those rainy days that you're not going
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  to go out for the mile walk or you're not going to hit the
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  number. And that doesn't mean it's not
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  progress. It just means that was a day of
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  rest or rain. Not every day is 100%.
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  That's a wrap. Thanks for joining us on
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