Latest / NO FILTER / _This is authoritarianism__ Harvard professor says Trump is trying to _strangle_ the university(MP3_160K)

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_This is authoritarianism__ Harvard professor says Trump is trying to _strangle_ the university(MP3_160K) · NO FILTER

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: As graduation ceremonies get underway this morning at Harvard University,
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: the school will also face off against the Trump administration
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: in a Boston courtroom. Last week, a federal judge granted
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Harvard a temporary restraining order against the new White House
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: policy that ends Harvard's ability to enroll international students. Today,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: both sides will argue over whether that judge's order should
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: be extended. Dave Arenberg, what are you looking for out
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: of today's hearing?
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Well, I put on my yellow ribbon because we must
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: never lose sight of the hostages. I'm disappointed in my
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: alma maters' response to anti semitism on campus. I think
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: the Trump administration is going to focus on anti semitism,
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: whereas Harvard's going to say, but.
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: What you're hitting us with is overbroad.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: What you're hitting us with is way beyond our response
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: anti semitism. And I think that's the key here, because
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: if the administration had a specific goal in mind, and
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: if they were in with it, they could succeed. But
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: remember when the administration went after Harvard, they sent them
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: a letter that.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: Was an accident.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: It was not supposed to be sent to Harvard. And
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: because this administration can never emit when they're wrong. They
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: refused to take it back, and so they're moving ahead
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: with something they never intended to do from the beginning.
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: So this whole war didn't have to happen.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: So I think Harvard is going to say, you guys
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: are overbroad in what you're trying to do. You don't
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: have the power to do this unilaterally, and thus we're
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: entitled to relief. I actually think they probably meeting. Harvard
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: will probably win in court, but this battle with the
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: administration is far from over.
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: I think you're right about that, and we'll be staying
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: on it in the weeks ahead. Former State Attorney for
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Palm Beach County, Florida, Dave Earin mcdave, thank you very much.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Join us now. Professor of psychology at Harvard University, Stephen Pinker.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: He wrote a guest essay for The New York Times
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: titled Harvard Derangement Syndrome, in which he details the fallout
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: of Trump's attacks on the university. Good morning, professor, Well
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: let's start right there. There's been a series of broadsides
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: from the White House, directed at Cambridge, directed at Harvard.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Talk to us about how you've seen that impact life
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: there on campus.
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: Well, people are furious, They're distraught, they're bewildered. The Trump
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: administration is using every means of its disposal to try
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: to cripple Harvard, threatening to multiply a tax on the
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: endowment fifteenfold, canceling all grants, canceling all student jesus, threatening
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: to revoke its tax exempt status. It's basically trying to
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: strangle Harvard. It is an all out war. I think
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: Harvard would be happy to negotiate if they thought there
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: was someone on the other side acting in good faith.
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: But the fact that, for example, that letter was sent
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: out an error but then was not retracted, and that
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: many of the demands of the administration are patently unconstitutional.
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: They're infringements on free speech.
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: The impedments on the autonomy of a private institution means
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: that there's some uncertainty estent how Harvardship proceed. It certainly
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: is pressing its case in court in cases where the
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: administrator is acting contrary to the law, contrary to the constitution.
• 3:13
  Speaker 5: Professor one, as Chris Matthews, you know, historically I always knew.
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: I grew up in Philadelphia, so I knew all about
• 3:19
  Speaker 5: the quota system and the fact that penn didn't have
• 3:22
  Speaker 5: one for Jewish students. There's the reason a lot of
• 3:25
  Speaker 5: the great Hollywood producers went.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: To penn It's directors.
• 3:28
  Speaker 5: It just a fact that mark on the ivys that
• 3:34
  Speaker 5: they had these quotas about Jewish students. Is that still
• 3:36
  Speaker 5: making it an attractive target for Donald Trump to keep hitting?
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: Oh, I don't think that Trump cares about the old
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: old money wasps snobbish quotas against Jews. There is there
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: having problems with anti semitism at Harvard, largely at other
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: elite universities, largely a spillover from anti Israel zealotry among
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: some of our students and some of our instructors. But
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: the old money anti Semitic snobbery is no longer a problem.
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: The problem is disruptive protests.
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: The problem is some of our instructors inappropriately introducing anti Israel.
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: Content into classes.
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: The Anti Semitism Report details these abuses, and our President
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: Alan Garber has about to crack down on them.
• 4:25
  Speaker 6: Professor smell Sanders Townsend, you know, it strikes me that
• 4:29
  Speaker 6: what the administration is doing to Harvard specifically in this case,
• 4:34
  Speaker 6: is a part of a broader strategy in some ultra
• 4:37
  Speaker 6: right conservative circles. Right, there has been a long war
• 4:41
  Speaker 6: that has been waged, cultural political war that wanted to
• 4:43
  Speaker 6: be waged on a higher ed, higher elite if you will,
• 4:47
  Speaker 6: institutions because of a proceed if you will, bias towards conservatives.
• 4:52
  Speaker 6: And I was a fellow at Harvard's Kennedy School, and
• 4:55
  Speaker 6: I can tell you I feel as though on the
• 4:57
  Speaker 6: campus is oftentimes there is an correction to ensure that
• 5:01
  Speaker 6: that is not happening. What's your take on if this
• 5:04
  Speaker 6: is happening in a vacuum, or if this isn't that
• 5:06
  Speaker 6: connected to the broader strategy in some conservative circles putting
• 5:12
  Speaker 6: universities and higher education institutions in the crosshairs.
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: Well, I think that's exactly right, and I almost hesitate
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: to call it conservative in that classical conservatism is committed
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: to limited government, government constrained by constitutional restraints. This is
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: more of authoritarianism. This is what dictatorships the world over do.
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: They try to disable civil society organizations, including the press,
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: including our arts organizations, the judiciary, law firms. And we've
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: seen this pattern from the Trump administration. And I think
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: the concerns over antisemitism are utterly focus. The White House
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: has had Holocaust deniers and Nazi sympathizers to dinners. There
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: the conservative of antisemitism. Some of the punishments mentioned it,
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: some of them don't. It's hurting Jewish students who are
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: in the labs and hoping for the fellowships that are
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: being canceled.
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: It's hurting the Jews.
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: By making it seem as if the defunding of cancer research,
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: the shutting down of labs.
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: Is to advance Jewish interests.
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: The Jewish organizations are adam we opposed to this, and
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: speaking as a Jewish faculty member, I don't want it.
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: It's not good for the Jews. It is a total pretext.
• 6:27
  Speaker 7: So, Professor I.
• 6:30
  Speaker 8: Wanted to ask you sort of a follow up on
• 6:32
  Speaker 8: a conversation that we had yesterday. You've already talked about
• 6:36
  Speaker 8: and said, hey, we've had some problems with anti Semitism.
• 6:39
  Speaker 8: Yesterday was talking about as being one of those traditional conservatives,
• 6:45
  Speaker 8: understanding that in the past, over the past thirty forty
• 6:48
  Speaker 8: years or so, universities, especially the tenure system, has often
• 6:53
  Speaker 8: kept out classic conservatives.
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: I'm not talking.
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  Speaker 9: About people who call themselves conservatives today I don't mean
• 7:01
  Speaker 9: to give you a leading question here, but I just
• 7:05
  Speaker 9: have to because I think it's the truth. It seems
• 7:08
  Speaker 9: that the president of Harvard understands that. It seems from
• 7:13
  Speaker 9: listening to you talk about the problems with any Semitism,
• 7:16
  Speaker 9: that you understand that.
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: So I am going to ask a leading question.
• 7:19
  Speaker 7: This is not hardboll with Chris Matthews.
• 7:21
  Speaker 9: I'll call this softball with Joe Scarborough.
• 7:25
  Speaker 7: Isn't there a much better understanding in twenty twenty five
• 7:29
  Speaker 7: that speech has been stifled too much in elite universities
• 7:33
  Speaker 7: in the past, that any Semitism has been allowed to
• 7:37
  Speaker 7: fester too much in some elite universities in the past,
• 7:40
  Speaker 7: and the traditional Burkian conservative voices have often been excluded
• 7:47
  Speaker 7: by the tenure system in the past.
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: I think so I co founded and co lead the
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: councilor and academic creed him at Harvard precisely because we
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: thought that Harvard had not safeguarded intellectual diversity, intellectual intellectual freedom,
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: and civil discourse.
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: That's why we organized.
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: We've gotten a lot of sympathy from the administration, from
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: President Garber, from the Provost John Manning.
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: There is recognition that there.
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: Is a problem, and some of it is indeed an
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: exclusion of conservative voices. And as I said in the article,
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: a little bit of dei from conservatives probably wouldn't hurt
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: in that I think our students, I think our faculty
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: would really benefit from a variety of voices. They don't
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: have to agree with them. But as John Stewart Mill said,
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: those who know only their own side of the argument
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: know little of that. Even if you're not a conservative,
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: you should sharpen your argument by protecting it against.
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: Conservative counter arguments. And who knows, sometimes conservatives are right
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: At