Latest / Behind the Founders / From Hoops to Hustle: A Journey from Basketball to Business Success
Transcript
- Carmen: Hi everyone, my name is Carmen Durvald and today I will be hosting the episode of Behind the Founders and here I am interviewing Alex. Welcome Alex, how are you doing today? Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Hey Carmen, thank you for having me. I'm really good. Thank you. How are you? Carmen: I'm good, thank you so much. Happy to have the chance to really learn about how you get started with the business of Titan Agency. So to get us started, could you briefly walk us through who you are and how and what inspired you to start Titan Agency? Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Yeah, of course. So when I graduated high school, I used to play basketball professionally. So I played here in Bulgaria and then I played a in Denmark. After I quit playing basketball, I moved to the UK. I started working in the restaurant business. I was there for five years, but ⁓ during the I was working full time in the restaurant, I was trying all types of different businesses just to make some money on the side. Unfortunately I started two businesses which both of them didn't work. and during the pandemic ⁓ had time to reflect. ⁓ the one thing in common of all these businesses was that they all had marketing in their core. I had a few friends that had marketing agencies, so ⁓ I the agency in twenty twenty ⁓ and in twenty twenty one I was able to quit my full time job ⁓ and full full time in the agency. Carmen: Nice. be really curious to learn a little bit about the two businesses that you were trying to start but didn't work out. What did you think was setting you back? Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Mm-hmm. I would say the main thing was traffic to the site. So the two the two businesses that I started, the first one was a block site. I was ⁓ giving to people on how to ⁓ what supplements to take, how to go to the gym, what programs to follow. ⁓ And was doing affiliate marketing, so ⁓ in ⁓ blogs was promoting different supplements and if someone bought I would get a small commission. that didn't work because I wasn't able to get enough traffic to the site because of my strategy. I was promoting it mostly on Pinterest, which now I realize might not have been the best platform to do it. ⁓ And the second one was again a blog, but then I was teaching people how to build their own websites. ⁓ And was using the similar structure, promoting different softwares and tools, website platforms. And again, if someone subscribed, I was getting a commission. Carmen: Okay. Okay. Okay, thank you so much for sharing. And you mentioned that previously you were also working in a full-time position. What was the full-time position and what made you decide to take that leap of faith to build the business of Titan Agency where you are today? Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Course. So was ⁓ working at a restaurant chain for five years. I got ⁓ a point where they were training me for a general manager, so I would have been leading my own restaurants. The reason that I quit was because ⁓ I really competitive, I love growth and I wanna see progression. And in my full-time job, the it was unfortunately ⁓ very very slow progression and I Carmen: Okay. Hmm. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: And I that's why I decided to get into business because I feel like with business it's it's very competitive space. if you don't grow and if you don't push, there's always gonna be someone else, a competitor that will surpass you ⁓ and better. ⁓ Carmen: Yeah, of course. And I think it's also about the fact that with businesses, you really have the chance to learn a lot. There's so many rapid changes happening, it's not so slow paced, you really get so much out of it. You also have a lot of exposure to connect, network, meet with different people as well, and also just think outside of the box and really tackle on different challenges as well. ⁓ so let's talk a little bit about Titan Agency. could you tell the audience? Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: No, I agree. Carmen: ⁓ who have no idea or who have never heard about Titan Agency, who are you? ⁓ does Titan Agency do? Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Okay, ⁓ so we work with e commerce businesses in the United States, and we help them grow through paid media on Meta, Google, we also do email and sms marketing and we support businesses with performance creative. Carmen: Mm. Mm-hmm. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: ⁓ we also serve about twenty clients at the moment. we're a team of twelve people. ⁓ the team is all around the world. we have people in Brazil, we are three people here in Bulgaria, South Africa, all around the world. Carmen: Okay, all right. And how do you go about finding team of people you support? You mentioned that they are remote, they're all over the world. how did you come in contact with the people you need to help you support and grow this business? Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ so ⁓ mostly LinkedIn and Upwork to hire. most my team members came from ⁓ Upwork, but recently I have started using ⁓ LinkedIn ca LinkedIn a little bit more, and I have seen success there. but predominantly yeah, ⁓ Upwork and and Carmen: Okay. Yeah, I've heard a lot about Upwork as well and that's usually a platform where you're looking for freelancers or you're looking for people who are doing project-based roles. so in your current team are they consisted of freelancers what kind of what kind of support do you have? What does your team setup look like? Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Mm-hmm. Okay, so with I mean currently all my team members are working full time just with us. but the way I structure the hiring is ⁓ I someone, I initially give them three months trial period. So they don't manage let's say six to eight accounts, they're gonna manage two to three accounts in that trial period. If they perform well, they come full time in in the agency. Carmen: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And when you mean by managing accounts, could you elaborate more on that? What do you mean by that? Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Mm-hmm. So when it comes to let's say we have the the team is in three different departments. So we have paid media, we have email and sms marketing, and then we have the performance creative departments. if I'm hiring someone to manage Facebook and Google Ads accounts, they will come on board and I will let them manage two to three accounts in the beginning. I would I would see what their approach is, what's their strategy. Carmen: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: How they communicate the clients, also do they fit the team culture because I feel like that's super important. ⁓ and then if they perform well, we give them the opportunity to work full time. Carmen: Course Okay, nice. And how is your team looking so far in terms of growth? what are the challenges that you face at the moment? Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: At the moment I feel really good about our team. I think we're in a really strong position. I would say currently one of the challenges would be we're going through a transition ⁓ of where we so the we work is we the past two years we've introduced a lot of new services. So up until I'm gonna say twenty twenty four, we were just providing Facebook and Google Ads. Carmen: Okay. Okay. Mm-hmm. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: ⁓ but over the last two years we introduced email, we introduced SMS, last year we introduced performance creative, and this year we also introducing CMO level consulting, meaning ⁓ we read the clients' PLs, we help them with reducing with reducing expenses and making sure they're more profitable. The the challenge with this is every time we introduce a new service, we first need to learn about it. ⁓ then we need to Carmen: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm. Of course. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: We need to make a structure of how we're gonna validate the talent that we're ⁓ hiring. I would say that's ⁓ probably the most challenging thing when you introduce a new service to hire people to manage it. Carmen: Course. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that comes with everything as well, right? Is that whenever you're learning a new service or a new tool or a new process, that itself, of course, it takes time because first you have to familiarize yourself, read the theoretical parts, do a little trial and error, test it out to make sure, okay, is this working? Is it not working? And of course, that itself definitely takes some time as well. And I think ⁓ that you would also need to find the right people to join your team. to make sure that they're able to catch up and go up to speed, right? ⁓ So I would love to know a little bit more about just wanted to switch a little bit about the topic because earlier on you're saying you support different clients, use a lot of different services tools, including the Facebook, Meta ⁓ Google. What kind of clients or brands or industries do you typically work with? Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Yeah. Mm-hmm. so the majority of our clients are in the fashion space, so either jewelry, clothes, accessories, shoes. Not I'm gonna say probably eighty percent of our clients are in that in that space, but starting this year we're trying to expand a little bit, and go into health health and care. ⁓ also supplements. ⁓ But yeah, the majority of our clients are in in the fashion space. Carmen: Okay. Mm. Okay. Okay. Okay, and how do they typically find you or do you ⁓ them ⁓ proactively? Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: So we do a lot of outreach, but the majority of our clients come from referrals. Last year, for example, we acquired ten new clients, of which came from our own efforts, from code outreach, ⁓ ⁓ the other nine came from referrals. So we're really fortunate that our clients are referring as business, ⁓ that's how we've been growing over the the past I'm gonna say for the past three years, the majority of our clients have come from from referrals. Carmen: Mm. Yeah, yeah. ⁓ that's that's really amazing how things are slowly starting to ramp up as well and that you're slowly building more and more of the client relationships. ⁓ how many clients are you currently working with at the moment? Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Currently we're working with exactly twenty clients, sixteen sixteen of which are in the United States and four in Australia. Carmen: Twenty clients, okay. Okay, okay, wow, very nice. within your team, how does it work? Does each of your team member are they assigned to particular clients or is there someone who's taking particular ownership of working with those clients or how does the setup work? Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Yeah, so we every single account manager, so we are a total ⁓ six managers. We're three people managing the paid media stuff and three people managing the email and SMS stuff. ⁓ every single account manager's account manager has his own accounts, ⁓ and we have a leader of every single team. Every account manager also communicates with the clients and they are responsible for communication, reports and managing the account. Carmen: Mm-hmm. Course. Okay. Mm. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: And also when it comes to email marketing, the account managers are responsible for working with the graphic designers to ensure the emails are on brand and revenue. The we structure client relationship, because we have the majority of our clients, we offer multiple services. So we would have a client that we do ⁓ Facebook Google Ads, email and SMS, also also creative. ⁓ Carmen: Course. Mm-hmm. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Every time we have such a structure with a client, usually the media bar, so the person who manages the paid the paid media, so Meta and Google, he is the one leading the whole the whole relationship. And based on his recommendations, we structure everything down the bottom. We also have ⁓ ⁓ for every single team, as I mentioned. So I'm mostly leading the paid media team. we have my Carmen: Hmm. Okay. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: ⁓ actually my best friend is working in the agency as well and he's he is leading the email marketing team. and yeah. Carmen: Okay. Mm. All right. in terms of services, I'd love to know from your experience, which services have worked out really well, which ones have you seen less leads less ⁓ minimal results, I would say. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: I think the two services that are very that really influencing revenue, so paid media and email marketing, they work very differently. and the issue is that with with email if you don't have a really good paid strategy on Facebook and Google, email marketing is not gonna work because you don't have enough ⁓ flow of leads or subscribers that will convert over email. So I would say probably the most important one is to have a really good paid media. strategy in place so you can drive enough traffic to the site so then the email marketing ⁓ can work. Carmen: Okay, yeah, of course. ⁓ let's jump into the topic of AI, right? ⁓ because obviously AI ⁓ growing, it's slowly developing, they're slowly slowly changing. We have Chat GBT, and now we have Claw, we have Gemini, we have all of these AIs that are constantly learning, constantly evolving, and I'm pretty sure that it influences and it surrounds us, right? It also influences our work, our business, ⁓ how we automate processes, especially when you're Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Mm-hmm. Carmen: your clients when you're providing the services. you ⁓ a little bit more about software or tools that you're implementing to streamline all the processes for you? Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Yeah, so the the main tool that we're using is Claude. we use it for absolutely everything. ⁓ way we sh started initially, so we the f the first step was trying to automate every single manual process that doesn't require too much thinking, but it requires a lot of manual work. For example, ⁓ part of the reporting, part of the onboarding, part of the analysis of potential clients. So bec Carmen: Mm. Yeah. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: And it and it's really easy for us to do it because we have SOPs for absolutely everything. So i before we started using AI, we had everything documented. So we basically uploaded our SOPs and now we work with with Cloud to do that for us. Also, when it comes to managing the services, for email specifically, Cloud really helps us with building calendars for the clients that we manage email marketing. ⁓ Because when Carmen: Mm-hmm. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: When you have been using Cloud, let's say for a year, and you've done email marketing for a certain account for more than two years, you have a huge history of different calendars that you have done for them. ⁓ and you have the performance that you can upload as well. And based on that, Cloud helps us with building the calendars. Also, we use it for all of the copy that we do, both on email and on paid stuff. And again, because we have so much data. Carmen: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Mm. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: from previous years with our clients when you applote all the data to Cloud, it it's really good. Carmen: Yeah. Yeah, of course. And they would like recall and remember everything because at that point you're really training them. It's like It's it's I like to see the AI like as your your intern in the business, right? Because you're just constantly giving them, feeding them information and training them, and then slowly they would learn, adapt, and pick it up with time as well. I know that I've used Claude a lot myself because what I love about Claude is that they are very good when it comes to organizational aspects, whether it's organizing calendars, organizing plans, which is something that I feel is Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Exactly. Carmen: kind of of missing with for example chat GPT and so on. I'd be curious to know which what made you decide that cloud what worked the best compared to other AI tools that are available right now. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: I was initially using ChatGPT for about I'm gonna say a year and a half. ⁓ but we moved the entire team to Claude maybe I'm gonna say three or four months ago. And the the reason is because I saw Claude being able to connect through MCP with all of the tools that we're using. and I think the results that Claude produced for us were a lot better than than ChatGPT because Carmen: Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Mm-hmm. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Before we fully moved to Cloud, we were using both and we were asking for feedback from clients. We were also reviewing internally, giving them the same prompt and analyzing the results. And Cloud was was always bad. ⁓ yeah. Carmen: Hmm. Yeah, of course. when it comes to ⁓ ⁓ first of all, I'd just be curious to know what do you think about AI in general actually? Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: think a of agency owners and people in in the space feel threatened by AI that it's gonna take their job, but ⁓ I am exactly on the other side. I feel I feel more empowered with AI because you can do so much more. I think business ⁓ should adopt as soon as possible because it's it's here to stay and it's only gonna get better. ⁓ the ⁓ Carmen: Hm. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Mm. Mm. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: All of the AI tools are improving so much every single week and you must utilize them as as much as possible because you're gonna left you're gonna get left behind. Carmen: So mentioned that you ⁓ That some people are feeling threatened AI because it could replace their jobs. Why do you think people are because I feel like right now AI it's such a controversial debate, right? There it's really on two different sides. people that think, you know, like you said, it's very empowering, ⁓ it automates it makes it drives efficiency, especially when we're living in this fast-paced world. And of course, there's the other side where, for an example, I've known some friends of mine, they were designers, they used to draw, but they felt like they couldn't do their job anymore because they enjoy doing everything manually, but that got replaced by AI because they have to basically train the AI to start generating those graphic designs and images. And with those types of people, they tend to be more, like you said, very threatened because of the fact that it would replace their jobs. ⁓ I'd love to know more thoughts about this from your perspective. Yeah. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Yep, so ⁓ for example, let's take an ⁓ let's take a for example a graphic designer. Usually a graphic designer can with the of emails that let's say we produce for certain clients, a graphic designer can manage four to five accounts at most per month because we're sending emails almost every single day for most of our clients and that is their capacity. If they train properly AI to create the designs based on the brand's guidelines, based on our guidelines, they will probably be able to to manage ten accounts. And for a freelancer, let's say for a freelancer who is working on five accounts, they can get paid more because they can manage more. The results also will be improved because I feel like AI is learning a lot faster than a human. ⁓ Carmen: Mm. Mm. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: And it can give you a lot more ideas. It's gonna save you time with research if you want to research new ideas. ⁓ and yeah, it's basically empowering and it's gonna allow you to to manage a lot more than you can. And I feel like in our space, in the agency space and marketing in general, I feel like we'd we will move more to a management position, so managing all of the different AI tools to ensure they have a really good output because Carmen: Absolutely. Mm. Mm. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: I don't think we are close to that time where brand would allow AI to work on its own and spend let's say a million dollars a month on Facebook ads without anyone supervising it and and looking after it. Because with AI there you c let's say ⁓ we there is a business who's gonna give a million dollars to AI that to spend across Meta and Google. Carmen: Mm. Four Yeah. Mm. Mm. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: If it doesn't perform, there is nobody you can h you can hold accountable. ⁓ whereas it w if you have a manager, there's someone always overseeing the strategy and you can hold someone accountable. Carmen: Mm. Absolutely. Yeah. I just wanna ⁓ point out what you mentioned earlier. I love what you said that as a team we are evolving to become managers because when I hear that it's like, you know, a lot of people talk about they have this fear that they are gonna lose jobs because AI, there's the belief that AI could replace a lot of jobs. But I would say that, you know, from what we're discussing, that rather than losing jobs, where our roles or our jobs are evolving into Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Carmen: into a different role, with which is what you mentioned. It's about like managing and overseeing all the different processes and streamlines, and I think with that as well, people would also have to upskill certain skills to evolve into those manager roles, which also follows up to my next question, which is within ⁓ your team at Titan ⁓ with all those AI tools being implemented, all those processes rolling out. you provide certain ⁓ whether it's trained with AI or training them to be more in a managerial role, to make sure that they are keeping up the pace or being up to speed with everything? Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so we're a very collaborative team. ⁓ we speak with every single one every single week. ⁓ we also are always on top of different AI tools. We're very open to testing new AI tools. And since we're since we're in the online and like e commerce space, a lot of these AI tools got in gets get introduced to us first ⁓ for testing, for different purposes. So we test a lot of AI tools every single week. Carmen: Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: being for email marketing, for Facebook ads, or even for internal management of CRM, of the documents and everything. So we do communicate and collaborate a lot. We're constantly improving. Currently we're building a lot of system, a lot of systems internally with Cloud that will allow us for better research, better onboarding and basically str st trying to streamline whole process from start to when we start managing the ads. Carmen: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm. Nice. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In a way I would say AI such as Claude or ChatGPT, it's basically the advanced version of Google. In a way, it is research basically that would really help you, guide you, a very powerful learning platform as well for you to stay about so many things as well. ⁓ yeah, for sure. And I I would like to come back to ⁓ your you're a little bit about your team, you know, you are fully remote, international. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Carmen: very collaborative. How do you manage ⁓ the working, especially across multiple time zones? What do you do to ensure that it is collaborative? Because obviously it's not that easy, right? When people, some people wake up, some people already finish work. So how do you manage this and ensure that everything ⁓ is Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Yep, so with b since the majority of our clients are in the United States, when we are hiring in job description, we always ensure we have that ⁓ people be able to work EST time zone. ⁓ if they are not able to work EST time zones, we we simply don't ⁓ work with them for the simple reason that sometimes if let's say someone is in ⁓ say in Europe, where I'm in Bulgaria, I ⁓ many work ten Carmen: Mm-hmm. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: or twelve in the evening. ⁓ just because we are in this business we have ⁓ we have committed to support our clients in the state so we must be available for communication for whatever happens. another thing that we have s that I started doing over the past year is I started hiring only j in ⁓ for junior positions and trained them internally. I I had a lot of issues in the past when hiring Carmen: Mm-hmm. Right. Absolutely. Mm. Mm. Okay. Okay. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: for a senior position because I feel like if you're not really good at hiring, ⁓ which in the beginning I wasn't b when I was hiring my my first few team members, when I was hiring for senior positions, people from other companies or agencies came on board with a lot of bad habits. it's it's very hard to ⁓ change those habits. whereas with with with the junior position Carmen: Mm. Course Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: ⁓ when they come on board, you set clear expectations, you train them in your way of working, in communicating with clients. yeah, recently we have started hiring only junior position, and we always look for we always look for the personality of the person ⁓ if they fit ⁓ they fit culturally, because skills can be taught. we have a lot of experience in the agency, we've been Carmen: Okay. Mm. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: ⁓ we've been up and running for like five or six years. A lot of our team members have of close to ten years in their field. ⁓ yeah, we have found a lot of success training people internally. Carmen: Mm. Yeah, amazing. You know, I have to say that it's really refreshing to hear that you are intentionally looking for junior positions. a recruiter myself, ⁓ worked with many teams over ⁓ years of my career, and something that I often find is that A lot of the teams they are always seeking for someone who has more experience so that they can already already join in, you know, up and running, but of course means that they overlook the more junior candidates or entry-level candidates because Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Yeah. Carmen: It's it's like this catch 22, and I think it is a struggle for many people currently looking for new roles, right? They're always looking for with more experience, but at the same time, you need the experience to gain the experience as well. So I just want to say it's really refreshing what you said that you know what skills can be taught, and it's also about having the right leadership team to ensure that they provide the necessary training to get them up to speed. And what you mentioned about culture fit, making sure that people have like this. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Yeah. Carmen: this thirst for growth, this hunger for growth mindset is really essential because that plays a huge part. Because of course there's people who have all those skills, but if they're not willing to adapt, learn, or familiarize the way of things are done in a different culture, that of course is going to hinder the collaboration as well. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I a hundred percent agree with you. Junior ⁓ people who are in a junior position are a lot hungrier, I think, than the senior. And don't get me wrong, I'm completely fine with ⁓ and companies hiring for senior positions. I feel like there's there there are positions that you simply cannot allow yourself to hire a junior. but ⁓ I feel confident in our leadership team and the way we work with our junior team. So Carmen: Mm-hmm. Course, yeah. Yeah. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: with the training provided they all get up to speed pretty fast and and yeah. Carmen: Yeah, amazing, amazing. So currently you are expanding, hiring junior roles. ⁓ I'd love to know in terms ⁓ your ⁓ projects, ⁓ goals, is your next focus? Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: My so the leadership team email and ⁓ creative, they're a lot focused currently on trying to automate a lot of process with AI. ⁓ what I personally am currently focusing on ⁓ is the agency brand my personal brand so we can acquire ⁓ bigger clients and we can scale the the agency. Carmen: Mm-hmm. Okay. All right. And do you s foresee any challenges? Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Currently not. I would say the only issue with building a personal brand is that it's a lot slower ⁓ than I thought it will be. It's not like you start spending money on Facebook ads and you get results day one. ⁓ so that's the only I think the only challenging thing is is time. ⁓ and I have to and people need to be patient, me included, of course. Carmen: Mm. Course. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. It's also about taking the time, taking the patience to adapt, familiarize yourself, and then also making sure that you have the right people that has like the right mindset that has this curiosity to learn and build together and have this collaborative spirit as well. Great, Alex. I do have one final question that I would I like to ask, and you know, you shared a very interesting story, ⁓ how you you Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Mm-hmm. I agree. Carmen: businesses, it didn't go as the way it hoped, and here you are today. Titan it's been around for five or six years, you said, or how long has it been around for? Yeah, ⁓ and going really well, everything's going stable, going solid. from the experience that you've gathered, what piece of advice ⁓ or message you like to share for people who are considering to start their own business? Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: Yep, six years. I would say two things. The first one is never take no for an answer. I would say two things. The first one is never take no for an answer. we reach out to probably fifty to a hundred thousand ⁓ businesses every single month. ⁓ maybe of them are gonna reply that they're interested in speaking with us. And the rest of them either will not reply ⁓ or that they don't want to speak to us. And you can imagine the ratio of people who are interested to people who are not. So No don't take no financer and keep peep keep pushing and sales cures everything. If your business is not generating sales, you won't be able to hire the the right team. You won't be able to provide the service a proper way because you're always gonna be concerned about finances. and the second ⁓ excuse and the second thing I would say, you can't do it alone. You you need a team around you. You need a really good team around you. So hire for cultures, skills can be taught. Carmen: Mm. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: and the second thing I would say, you can't do it alone. You you need a team around you. You need a really good team around you. Carmen: Course. Course. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: And build a solid team around you. And I think this is a really good testament of the the way we work. And I give props to to every single person in my team because when we acquire clients, we we usually hold them for around maybe two to three years. ⁓ we have clients that have been with us since I started the agency, so for six years with us. and our service delivery, ⁓ client communication and relationships are are top notch. and I think that Carmen: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Aleksandar Hadzhiyski: That's it. Carmen: Wow, thank you so much. I think that is a definitely a very encouraging message as well. to keep trying, be resilient ⁓ Rejection is not the end of the world, it's a redirection as well, and of course, also about finding the right people who are willing to collaborate as well. thank you so much again for coming here to share your story about how you founded Titan Agency. so is Carmen ⁓ and at Behind the Founders. Be sure to stay tuned for the next episode.