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Issue 349: The Solitary Clone · Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast

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We must be cautious. Welcome to the ned Palty. Hi, this is
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Nick and Ostasu, story editor on Star Wars, the Clone Wars and Star
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Wars bad Batch. And you are listening to aggressive negotiations. Well, hello,
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and welcome to aggressive Negotiations, that little slice of Star Wars Heaven that
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comes at you every week. And I am just one of the hosts here,
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Jedi Master Matthew Rushing, and I'm so excited to have with me the
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one and only. Is that a cat att on your T shirt? John
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Mills? Yes, it's my Cat Catwalker T shirt, so it's pretty great.
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And listen, the only time it's set on screen is in the old
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kennor commercial ad at Walker. It's going to be an ad at Walker.
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I don't care how many of you nerds try to tell me that it's Ata
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t it's ad At. It's always gonna be ad At and that's why catcat
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is the best version. Well, we don't have time to argue the merits
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of whether or not that's actually the case, but we would love to argue
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with us. We'd love it, and you know, if you like the
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show, help us out, give us some reviews or ratings over on Apple
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Podcasts and more. People find us in that general malaise of Star Wars podcast
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that is very hard to see through. But John talking about being hard to
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see through is the place emotionally, spiritually, mentally, physically that we find
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our character of Crosshair as a solitary clone. And I think, you know,
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a true standout episode for the season already, and it's only three episodes
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in. I have friends who you know, didn't really love the first two
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episodes but thought this was fantastic. And I think that this is just to
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me, a wonderful juxtaposition to those first two episodes, which are all about
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this family that's being created, and this episode does such a great job of
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just showing us the dire straits that we find Crosshair because of the decision he
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made to you know, stay loyal and then of course we also know that
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he's had his loyalty ramped up through some torture. So this it's just I
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mean, this episode really is magnificent. This is a tremendous short film,
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is what this is. And it's very rare for a short film to feel
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so complete inside of half an hour, but it is. It's a perfect
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short film. You have an entire arc, you have all of the backstory
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you need, you have all the character development you could possibly want. You
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have a question that's put out there, you have a character going through Like,
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I'm going to be boring talking about this episode, because revisiting it is
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as everybody as wonderful as the first time I watched it, where while I
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may have shown some praise to ruins of war and spoils of war, if
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you want to come at me to you know, to your point and be
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like, oh bad Batch season two, this is the first episode I will
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generally talk about because there are so many things about it that just I cannot
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walk away from, specifically because Crosshair's the traitor to us, to the audience,
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to the main characters, to everybody that matters to us, and you
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feel such a deep abiding sympathy for him. Yeah, and conversely a deep
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sorrow for Commander Cody, the guy that tried to kill Obi Wan Kenobi in
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episode three. Yeah, and you actually wind up feeling bad for Cody because
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he's the one that says that they have to live with the decisions they make.
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But we know Order sixty six wasn't really a decision, but Cody has
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to feel like it was and it so there you go. Sorry, I
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know, spoilers for how I feel about the episode right there. No.
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I like the way in which you bring that up, especially, you know,
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because I think one of the beauties here of this is bringing in Cody
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and that, you know, when he talks about the idea of the fact
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that you know, you have you have to live with this, it reminds
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me. So this episode reminds me of the Deep Space nine episode Pale Moonlight,
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because when he makes that speech, it's like, you know, it's
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Cisco at the end saying I can live with it, I can live with
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it. I think I can live with it, you know, And Cody
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then of course makes the decision, you know, to walk away at the
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end. And I think there's just something so interesting about that because you're seeing
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the beauty of the clones, and we even talked about this is the fact
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that they could make their own decisions, and that individuality that they have been,
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that they have had cultivated because of the Jedi, has allowed so many
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of them to do exactly what we see Cody do in this episode, which
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is to realize that he's been played, to realize he is wrong, to
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realize that he's made the wrong choice, and then to rectify that and go
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and make the right choice, which is by abandoning his post, by abandoning
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you know who he's you know, called to be and are was called to
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be, you know, because of his creation. And then at the end
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of the episode, you know, we see the juxtaposition again between the clones
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who are made to be this and now the people who are willingly choosing to
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be this. And it's you know, we talked about in that last episode
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of the terrifying nature of the Empire. This is another episode that shows you
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how much more terrifying it is because you're having people willingly identify with the Empire
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and be willing to follow orders at any cost, no matter what they're being
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ordered to do. That's totally different than you've been programmed to be. This,
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I mean, that is scary stuff. Man. I'm glad you mentioned
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the Jedi, because that does underline why the Empire winds up having to transition
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from clones. In my mind, is because there are enough clones like Cody
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where they might have carried out that malicious, terrible order, or even Crosshair
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finds himself in the same space of questioning, well, wait a minute,
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am I doing the right thing? Because what you see with Cody and Crosshair
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and other clones who are struggling with this is the fact that they're you know
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what. It goes back to padme right, this war represents a failure to
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listen, we should be talking these clones. They're not fighting for, you
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know, the same government. It's under new management, and all of the
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sudden, simply by continuing their mission, they're fighting against the very thing that
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they were created for, even though they don't realize. Some of them might
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not realize it, but a lot of them. We find even in the
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mess hall that the two clones talking about the bill coming up for the conscription,
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and they're looking at it from a much more self interest vantage point of
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saying it's bad news for us, which we know it is, but it's
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also all the way down to the non special clones, like though the ones
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we don't know on a personal basis, every grunt is feeling that the rug
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is being pulled out from underneath them. Yeah. I mean, the beauty
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of this episode is again, it really does such a great job of building
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off where we were in the first two episodes and then just continuing to kind
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of ramp up the tension that we're feeling and where the galaxy is, and
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you know, and then on top of that, the whole mission that Crosshair
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is given is to go to this planet and make sure that it's subdued for
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the Empire. Even though this planet wasn't part of the Republic ever. You
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know, it was a separatist planet. It's kind of out of the way
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anyway, and yet the Empire wants it and it's going to have it,
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you know. And you know, we see all of the attitudes we're kind
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of talking about as well in that in Ruins of War with the way in
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which Rampart acted. We also see that with the new governor here, you
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know, basically just a petulant child being given control of a planet and you
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know, willing to do whatever it takes, run rough shot over the population,
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just as long as it subdued the way he wants it. And he's
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in power. And you know, you see then Crosshair being willing to pull
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the trigger at the end and Cody won't because Cody realizes this is wrong,
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this is evil. And you know, the beauty of the episode is that
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you can see that cross Hair is struggling, but he's just willing himself to
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not struggle. You know, Well, it's the box that anybody finds themselves
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in to back yourself out of something that you have convinced yourself to believe is
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right. It's impossible for a lot of people. Yeah, you can present
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people night and day, black and white examples of why what they're doing is
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supporting a bad thing, but they will they'll dig in their heels. Cross
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Hair has to dig in his heels because the alternative is you know, horrifying
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in its own right. And additionally, you know, to go back to
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Cody, you know, you point out Cody can't do it again. Cody
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worked with some of the most noble and heroic Jedi in existence that rubbed off
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on him. And it shaped him to do to be that way and to
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have those questions just so in the marrow of his bones, because he saw
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how Jedi worked to de escalate things. Maybe not Anakin, but most Jedi
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worked to de escalate things. And additionally, the real horror of everything is
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that they're not fighting mechanics when they're talking to that governor there, when they're
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shooting droids. We can abstract that and be like, you know, it's
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it doesn't it has limited autonomy. It can't really think it's it's just a
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programmed machine. It can't question orders. This is supposed to be the again,
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this is supposed to be the difference that two human beings in a moment
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like this and say, Okay, maybe we don't need to get out of
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this by shooting each other. Right, Shooting a machine is one thing.
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Now, let's set aside the whole thing that L three introduces to the mix
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and three D O and R two and that sort of stuff. But you
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know, like it's just a different sort of thing. And I mean that's
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why I look at this as a short film. I don't even need the
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rest of the Bad Batch series for this to be an incredible episode. Yeah,
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this is simply one character's journey through a changing environment. And that's what
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I think really elevates this one so darn much. And it's it so many
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moments handled so incredibly well. It holds for the right amount of time,
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Crosshair holds for the right amount of time before he takes the shot. And
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I wanted to ask you this, like, I think one of the interesting
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things is that, I mean, I guess it's not really a question.
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I'll just put it out there and just sort of like, you know,
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get your thoughts on it too. But so many times in a situation like
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this, we expect the bad governor the imperial guy to get shot instead,
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to have the trooper turn on or shoot both of them or something like that,
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and instead it's not that clean solution where at least we know the terrible
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bureaucrat got shot. It's yeah, no, everybody who everybody lost on this
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one. Yeah. I think that that is the thing again that really sets
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this episode in terms of what we're talking about. I think in the previous
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episode where you know, season two is differentiating itself from season one, and
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I think in like you mentioned the Clone Wars, that kind of traded trained
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us to see mostly the bad guys get what they deserved a lot of times,
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and the good guys to prevent. And we're in that place in the
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Star Wars galaxy where the bad guys win all the time, ninety eight percent
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of the time, you know, like yeah, and I mean I say
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that on purpose, Like it's like there's so few wins and for those that
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are on the side of righteousness, right, and what is good, And
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that's the place that we're in and to see, of course, you know,
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our character of Crosshair struggle with but still try and leave no doubt that
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he's going to obey orders. You know, good soldiers follow orders, and
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that he's he's going to continue to do that is so heartbreaking. But I
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think one of the things that makes this feel, like you mentioned the idea
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of almost like it's its own short film, is that this episode is so
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cinematic in the way that it's lit, in the way that it's shot,
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and the composition of the shots. I mean, it's one of those places
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where it's like they're just literally showing off what they can do, but they're
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showing off in a way that brings to light everything they're trying to do for
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the characters by having a lot of shots where there's not a lot of light,
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you know, Like it's just every the lighting, the composition of the
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shots, the choices of how the action is shot, Like every single aspect
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of this episode feels like it's been meticulously gone through with a pick, you
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know, Like it's phenomenal. Yes, And it's it's one of those things
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where not a single shot feels utilitarian exactly. And what I mean by that
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is it's not just a bridge shot. It's not just oh, we need
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something to fill in here. It's everything has such a deliberate nature about where
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the camera's placed and like you said, the lighting and all of that sort
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of stuff. But I think also this is an episode where the score goes
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next level because I hear aspects of Gorenson, I hear aspects of Zimmer,
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I hear I hear a Blade Runner twenty twenty four in it, I hear
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Tenet in it during an action sequence. And I'm not saying that to diminish
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it. I'm saying just like in the original trilogy, when I hear the
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opening go, when the start a story flies over, chasing the Blockade Runner
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I'm hearing Mars the Bringer of War, I'm hearing Venus, you know,
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Goddess of Love in Princess Leiah's theme. I'm hearing those things in there because
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it's tapping that familiarity, and that I think is another master stroke in the
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episode. Yeah, I mean, like, I would listen to the score
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for this specific this is why it feels like a short film. Again.
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I'd listen to the score for just this episode. I would just have this
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on the background and just listen to it repeatedly while I'm working out. Yeah.
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No, I think you calling out that is a big part of why
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this episode works, and specifically, I think it is the Blade Runner twenty
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forty nine soundtracks. Scay, did I say twenty twenty four? I did?
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Maybe I'm sorry, I'll throw myself on the fire on that one I
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did. It's that it's that feeling, like you're bringing that up. It's
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that it is that feeling that truly I think makes this. It puts you
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in that that that mindset. Especially you know, I just rewatched that movie
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and that movie has that morose like feeling, the crushing weight of just how
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hopeless things are, and that is exactly what this movie, what this episode
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is doing, you know. And I think that's one of the things that
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just makes this feel so special that every and as we're mentioning, every single
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little part of this episode is playing into the greater hole, and like you
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mentioned, there's legitimately nothing that's extraneous like it, even like I I love
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the shot uh at when Cody and Crosshair meat uh and they're right in front
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of the wall there of the lost Clones, the clones that have been killed,
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and then the end they're having their conversation in front of that wall,
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and it just again, the choice of that means so much because we're also
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watching these clones be replaced. They will get forgotten basically, and they will
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just be a thing that people then reference the Clone Wars, but nobody thinks
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about the clones themselves. And I think that I'm glad you mentioned them meeting
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in front of that wall, because one of the nicest touches is the fact,
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because we talk about how the color palette shifts and everything is Cody's in
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his uniform, we recognize, but he's unrecognizable because it's no longer orange and
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white. It's exactly gray and white. Yeah, we're seeing that color drainage
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that Lucas specifically called out. You see the color and creativity draining out from
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everything, and then they're cast in relief with that orangish wall behind them.
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You see them stand out in terms of their lack of color and even the
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fact that the way that that first conversation plays, especially in the context of
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what happens later. But you can tell right off the bat Cody's sounding out
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Crosshair. Is this a guy who would desert with me? Right? Yep?
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There are certain questions. I'm just as you know, you have this
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sense that Cody is asking questions where he can say I'm just asking questions as
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opposed to saying I was trying to get him to defect exactly, and just
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finding out if he had a friend from Clone Force ninety nine that could help
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him. And yeah, I mean that's the thing is like to have an
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episode of any series speak like this, I'm going to say something potentially very
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controversial. Even with all of the stuff that I loved in The Mandalorian,
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especially see seasons one and two and the great moments that I enjoyed with it
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and still enjoy with it, there's maybe one episode that I could talk on
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and on about all of the positives. Yeah, the same way I can
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with this one. And it's the one that a Soaka is in season two.
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So, like you know, it's very difficult because it can sound boring.
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And the thing that sucks is being in that box of trying to evangelize
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to somebody why they should be watching a show and have something like this where
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you can where I legitimately it's like being in that corner of saying, no,
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you don't understand, just watch this one. Just watch this one.
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You'll get it. You'll understand why I love it so much. And it's
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like, I feel like this is one of those episodes where like if I
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could just get somebody to watch it, they'd be like, oh yeah,
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that is a little bit different. It's like, yeah, yeah, you
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can this. This is the dopamine rush you get from the series, like
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let's come on, let's watch it, that sort of thing. Yeah.
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I think what you're saying here, and I think in this this episode and
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the thing that makes this episode stand out, and I heartily agree with you
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and what you said. I don't really think it's all that controversial, unfortunately,
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and this is kind of where you know, George Lucas was which is
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and I think the thing that he ended up loving about animation so much is
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that everything is under your control and everything can play into exactly what you want
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it to be with with no limits. And yet figuring out what needs to
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be there and what doesn't need to be there is such a big part of
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this series and in animation, right, And I think that's the thing is
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that the animated team truly had they had found exactly like they they've been doing
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this for so long. They know exactly what they're doing and why they're doing
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it, and this is an episode I think that just really shows off that
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ability for them, you know. I think that's the thing that we're seeing,
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and it's it's kind of phenomenal, right, Like it almost defies the
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ability to explain the greatness. And yes, like you said, it just
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could get boring in the superlatives, But that's the glory I think of the
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animated format and the way in which the people that have been working on Star
23:56
Wars animation for so long, they just they know what they're doing and they
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know how to utilize every trick in the trade now to do it and it
24:07
seems like they just continue to get better. And that's the crazy thing,
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because you see an episode like this and you're like, oh, well,
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could this even be topped this season? No, it's gonna be topped a
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few times actually, which is insane. It is insane. But even more
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insane is that while I could keep talking on and on about this, I'll
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I know, I know we're rounding third here. I'm going to just one
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last thing to encapsulate while I hear you talk what the artists are who put
24:45
this episode whole series naturally, but episodes like this, this is sculpture.
24:51
This is they know the shape that they're going for, but they have sculpted
24:56
something that is a beautiful work of art, and it just emphasizes, like
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you said, how tremendously this team is leveraging their experience and their vision to
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create something truly special and lasting in the Star Wars universe. Yeah. I
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mean, man, I mean it's it's it's an incredible achievement. So I
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think you know it's it's an incredible achievement. It is, it is.
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But you know what another incredible achievement is how many places people can find you
25:37
online. Master Rushing so why did you go through that list for them?
25:41
Yes, well, you can find me all over social media under the name
25:44
Matt Rushing Zeroe too. You can also find me here on the network with
25:48
a show called Alpost who did that with Drake Kaufman. We talked about every
25:52
single chapter of Harry Potter series. You can also find me over on the
25:56
TFM network and talking through a bunch of different things. But one of the
26:00
best places to go is this six or two Club where we talk about all
26:03
of those franchises we love. You can also find me on doing a bunch
26:07
of other shows there, so please check those out. But John, if
26:10
people wanted to catch up with you and of course see what things are going
26:14
on outside of aggressive negotiations, where would they find you. It's a substantially
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shorter list, Master Rushing, and you can find me out there is Kessel
26:23
Junkie have Fun. The spelling's pretty obvious to me. And you, of
26:27
course can find me here on the network, co hosting a show with Darren
26:30
Moser and Tristan Riddell called house Lights where we look at the work of different
26:34
film directors. But all of that said, Master Rushing, I think it's
26:37
time to tee up our next journey deeper into season two of The Bad Batch.
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But to prep for it, we have to return to the Temple.
26:45
So I think it's time to close these negotiations. John, negotiations are clothes.
26:55
Join the Revolution, Join the Nerd Party.