Latest / Ridiculous History / Idiomatic For The People, Part 1

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Idiomatic For The People, Part 1 · Ridiculous History

0:12
Speaker 1: Yea. It's often said that how do how do you
0:27
Speaker 1: say it? A podcast in one hand is worth two
0:30
Speaker 1: in the bush or a a. You can take a
0:34
Speaker 1: podcast to water, but you can't make it stream. You
0:37
Speaker 1: can't teach an old podcast or new tricks or can
0:40
Speaker 1: you don't look at gift podcast in the mouth. Uh.
0:45
Speaker 1: These may not be the exact verbatim figures of speech
0:50
Speaker 1: or turns of phrase, but by gosh, by golly, by gum,
0:53
Speaker 1: those things are fascinating nonetheless. Right, yeah, I'm Ben, Hi,
1:00
Speaker 1: I'm Noel and uh and this is ridiculous history. Oh yes,
1:03
Speaker 1: we should tell people the name of the show. We
1:05
Speaker 1: are a company, of course, as always with our super producer,
1:08
Speaker 1: Casey Pegram give him a hand if you're not driving.
1:12
Speaker 1: And this is a very special episode for us. No,
1:17
Speaker 1: we are exploring some strange dare I say, ridiculous idioms
1:22
Speaker 1: and figures of speech, but we are not embarking on
1:25
Speaker 1: this journey alone, my friend. Oh no, we have joined
1:29
Speaker 1: forces with a good friend of ours, friend of the show, podcaster, producer, musician,
1:35
Speaker 1: just regular you know, all around jack of all trades,
1:39
Speaker 1: renaissance man. You can't hear this, but I'm blushing right now,
1:43
Speaker 1: really ridiculous historians. Uh, Rowan Nubi, thanks for coming on
1:47
Speaker 1: the show man. It's my pleasure. Thank you for having me. Rowan,
1:51
Speaker 1: that's your real name, Yeah, it's it's another here. Nor
1:54
Speaker 1: There has a fantastic podcast called pitches Um, where a
1:59
Speaker 1: very is entertaining comedic people, smart people, funny people come
2:03
Speaker 1: on and pitch pretty horrible ideas for products or or
2:08
Speaker 1: films or books or really anything that that would require
2:11
Speaker 1: a pitch to try and sell. Is that right? I
2:13
Speaker 1: couldn't have said it better myself. Terrible ideas right there.
2:19
Speaker 1: That's sometimes it's almost scary when we stumble upon a
2:23
Speaker 1: good idea because we don't know what to do. There's
2:25
Speaker 1: off we're like, oh, no, go you know, let's cut this.
2:29
Speaker 1: You quickly copyrighted and we'll save this episode or something. Yeah.
2:33
Speaker 1: Rowan was kind enough to have me on as a
2:35
Speaker 1: guest of a very early episode of the show UM,
2:38
Speaker 1: and we kind of stumbled upon a reality show idea
2:42
Speaker 1: for like masked performers, and it was more in the
2:45
Speaker 1: DJ space. But then the other day we looked at
2:48
Speaker 1: the TV and now there's the masked singer and behold
2:52
Speaker 1: parallel thinking at its finest behold the name of the artist.
2:56
Speaker 1: That's a good idea. It would be with zeros though, yeah, naturally,
3:01
Speaker 1: And it's weird how quickly that that idea just evolved. Right.
3:04
Speaker 1: One of the things that we're we we explore often
3:08
Speaker 1: here on Ridiculous History, will be the strange turns of
3:12
Speaker 1: phrases that emerge, especially in English, but in all languages
3:17
Speaker 1: over the unending game of telephone that we call history.
3:21
Speaker 1: Right there, there's some weird ones. I don't know if
3:24
Speaker 1: you guys have ever seen those great compilation articles about
3:28
Speaker 1: phrases in other languages that just don't translate, you know,
3:33
Speaker 1: like things that make sense in Turkish, for instance, but
3:35
Speaker 1: not English. It turns out that our language has a
3:38
Speaker 1: ton of those, and and today we combined our forces
3:43
Speaker 1: to explore a few that captivated us, and to do
3:46
Speaker 1: our darndst since we're family show, to discover the origin
3:51
Speaker 1: behind these phrases. Right, this is the right episode, it is,
3:54
Speaker 1: and I think it's actually a repeatable model. I think
3:56
Speaker 1: if this goes well, we could maybe do some more
3:58
Speaker 1: of these. Um My, your friend, your dear friend Rowan's
4:01
Speaker 1: dear friend, Frank um actually came up with a great
4:05
Speaker 1: name for the segment or this type of show. We
4:07
Speaker 1: could call it Idiomatic for the people, hey like as
4:11
Speaker 1: a not to Georgia Boys R A M and their
4:14
Speaker 1: seminal album Automatic for the People. I had a little
4:17
Speaker 1: bit more of a self deprecating name, which would be
4:18
Speaker 1: idiots on idioms. I think you know what. I like
4:21
Speaker 1: both of those. I like both of those. I did
4:24
Speaker 1: not prepare a name for this segment. For sure, there's
4:27
Speaker 1: music and both of them. It's true, there we go.
4:30
Speaker 1: But what so we decided to do this episode and
4:33
Speaker 1: then we split apart and solo style, gave ourselves some
4:38
Speaker 1: homework and one of the one of the conversations we
4:41
Speaker 1: had was about whether we should let each other know
4:45
Speaker 1: in advance which idioms were bringing in the table, or
4:49
Speaker 1: whether we should surprise one another. I think it's a
4:52
Speaker 1: mixed bag, right, it's a mixed bags. And I know
4:55
Speaker 1: some of them, and then on some of them I
4:57
Speaker 1: don't know, and I'm excited for for all of them. Actually,
5:00
Speaker 1: without further ado, gentlemen, what do you say, who shall
5:03
Speaker 1: be the first to cast their word hat into the
5:08
Speaker 1: word ring? Well, Well, Ben, I mean you didn't. You
5:11
Speaker 1: didn't let us know any of yours. So I'm kind
5:13
Speaker 1: of on the edge of my seat. Do you mind
5:15
Speaker 1: going first with one of your choices? Sure? Absolutely. There
5:20
Speaker 1: is a phrase that is very common even nowadays, and
5:26
Speaker 1: it is something that should be familiar, I think to
5:28
Speaker 1: all native English speakers, regardless of the country in which
5:31
Speaker 1: you live. It's something ruined that you and I have
5:33
Speaker 1: said before in casual conversation. It is to butter someone up.
5:38
Speaker 1: Oh stop buttering me up, Noel, You and I have
5:40
Speaker 1: used this as well. Yeah, and it always kind of
5:43
Speaker 1: weirds me out a little bit because it makes me
5:45
Speaker 1: think of, you know, covering someone in delicious spread herble. Butter.
5:50
Speaker 1: I mean if your friends with someone who's you know,
5:53
Speaker 1: maybe a dinner roll, or your friends with a turkey
5:56
Speaker 1: maybe you know, I don't know, based me yeah please,
6:00
Speaker 1: it's implying a very intimate form of physical contact. Yeah.
6:04
Speaker 1: So it's strange because we we use this phrase and
6:09
Speaker 1: we all know roughly what it means. Flattery, right, maybe
6:13
Speaker 1: a little bit of somewhere between flattery and pandering. Right.
6:17
Speaker 1: This is actually an ancient concept. I had no idea
6:22
Speaker 1: because a lot of phrases, oddly enough, in English come
6:26
Speaker 1: from things like the Bible, or translations of it, or
6:30
Speaker 1: they come from wars. However, to butter me up has
6:35
Speaker 1: has a couple of different proposed origins, and one of
6:41
Speaker 1: the most solid or most widely accepted traces its origins
6:46
Speaker 1: back to ancient India, which I did not see coming.
6:50
Speaker 1: So we're talking about g here, we're talking about g yes,
6:53
Speaker 1: well done, clarified butter clarified g h e E. So
6:58
Speaker 1: here's what would happen, guys. The idea is that in
7:01
Speaker 1: ancient India, people would lob small balls of butter of
7:06
Speaker 1: gee butter at statues of various gods while asking them
7:10
Speaker 1: for favors. It's kind of an inducement, the same way
7:13
Speaker 1: that in some other religions you would offer a favored
7:18
Speaker 1: treat of a god as a tribute, So like cigars
7:21
Speaker 1: or alcoholic beverages or uh coins, blood of an infant, food,
7:27
Speaker 1: the skull of an enemy or a loved one. You know,
7:30
Speaker 1: there's there's a lot of various So butter is largely
7:33
Speaker 1: innocuous in this this idea, and in Tibet there's an
7:37
Speaker 1: even older custom of crafting butter sculptures. When the new
7:42
Speaker 1: year rolls around, the sculptures are viewed as a way
7:45
Speaker 1: of bringing happiness and peace in the coming year. So
7:49
Speaker 1: when we say that we're buttering someone up, we are
7:53
Speaker 1: implying that either they were making them a statue every year,
7:58
Speaker 1: or that we are giving them an offering in a
8:02
Speaker 1: transactional way because we want their favor. So the meaning
8:06
Speaker 1: of the meaning of this has become less blatant over time,
8:13
Speaker 1: and now it just means being nice to someone. But
8:16
Speaker 1: still I would argue with a soft implication, soft and
8:19
Speaker 1: buttering that there is something expected in return. Yeah, so
8:23
Speaker 1: it's like paying tribute, right, I mean, because also I
8:26
Speaker 1: would imagine we've done episodes in the past about how
8:28
Speaker 1: butter was a very hot commodity, right Yeah, Marjarine versus
8:33
Speaker 1: Butter was a big thing too, but I think you're
8:36
Speaker 1: talking about an older period of time, right. Yeah. It
8:38
Speaker 1: was also the one about the Protestant Reformation about how
8:41
Speaker 1: those butter indulgences were such a thing because it really
8:44
Speaker 1: pointed to the fact that, you know, the powers that
8:46
Speaker 1: be didn't actually care about good works and being pious.
8:50
Speaker 1: It was more just a way of like depriving people
8:52
Speaker 1: of things and giving the rich what they wanted as
8:55
Speaker 1: long as they could pay for it. So it's it's
8:57
Speaker 1: interesting that it's butter has always been kind of a
9:00
Speaker 1: divisive and tasty treat, even as recently. He's the eighteen
9:04
Speaker 1: seventies right, because there was the law about how margarine
9:08
Speaker 1: had to be dyed pink so that people would know
9:10
Speaker 1: it was not true butter that. I think Wisconsin was
9:14
Speaker 1: one of the last holdouts for that. But yes, that's it.
9:17
Speaker 1: So butter me up the next time you want to
9:19
Speaker 1: be one of those actually people in a conversation at
9:23
Speaker 1: a cocktail party or a suaree of your choosing. Uh,
9:27
Speaker 1: come armed with that information and butter someone up by saying,
9:32
Speaker 1: I'm sure that you already know the etymology of tow
9:35
Speaker 1: butter someone up. But here it is, who would ever
9:38
Speaker 1: do that? Nobody listens to the show or anyone sitting
9:40
Speaker 1: in this room would ever do it? Actually would you? Anyone? Butters?
9:44
Speaker 1: What now? And actually you would never go like, actually,
9:47
Speaker 1: you know, I wouldn't do it on purpose. I've been
9:50
Speaker 1: accused of doing the glasses up the nose thing, but
9:53
Speaker 1: it's always with a you take it with a grain
9:55
Speaker 1: of salt's or us slap at a ball of butter,
9:58
Speaker 1: ball of butter, you know, I think it's interest thing though,
10:00
Speaker 1: that you're really leaning into it being a mostly nice thing.
10:05
Speaker 1: I take buttering someone up as definitely wanting something and
10:10
Speaker 1: as manipulative. Kind of buttering someone up I always just
10:13
Speaker 1: read as like, because when someone's like, why are you
10:17
Speaker 1: buttering me up? You know that tone complicates? That's right, yeah,
10:23
Speaker 1: kind of whiz or this is not when I was.
10:28
Speaker 1: I don't believe this is when we today. But it's
10:31
Speaker 1: sort of akin to blowing smoke up someone's back, which
10:35
Speaker 1: I wonder, since we can speculate on that one, I
10:38
Speaker 1: wonder whether that has anything to do with uh Kellogg
10:43
Speaker 1: and his overwhelming love of what he thought were medicinal enimals,
10:48
Speaker 1: including tobacco smoke. Is that right? Oh? Yeah, he was
10:51
Speaker 1: all about enemas, and I knew he was about animals,
10:53
Speaker 1: but I didn't know that as smoke was was in
10:54
Speaker 1: the equation tobacco water. Weird true, and him of the state.
11:01
Speaker 1: There we go, So what's what's next. We've cracked the
11:04
Speaker 1: case on buttering someone up? Well, I had one question. Yes,
11:08
Speaker 1: they make so you're saying they made statues in India
11:11
Speaker 1: of Tibet, Yes, brother of their gods. I'm just searching
11:15
Speaker 1: for a gey nsh joke somewhere in there. I guess
11:20
Speaker 1: that's you found your way to really sorry for this
11:23
Speaker 1: is what kind of We have been accused of absolute
11:26
Speaker 1: dependence on dad jokes, So it's totally totally part I
11:30
Speaker 1: have come to the right place. Yes, welcome home. Uh
11:34
Speaker 1: we have. I would say we have been lauded for
11:37
Speaker 1: the our attempts at um potato potato My friends, are
11:42
Speaker 1: you saying that you get um like listeners writing YouTube
11:46
Speaker 1: comments being like, guys, enough with the dead jokes? Okay,
11:49
Speaker 1: well not on YouTube, but on iTunes. It is a
11:52
Speaker 1: terrible place. Don't ever go. Don't ever read the iTunes.
11:55
Speaker 1: I get more emails and tweets and stuff like. Uh,
11:59
Speaker 1: life was hopeless until you guys did that run of puns.
12:03
Speaker 1: Thank you. There's there's a light at the end of
12:05
Speaker 1: the tunnel. Famous pun run. Oh I heard about that
12:09
Speaker 1: for charity for two thousand and twelve. Famous pun run. Yes,
12:12
Speaker 1: classic things will never be how you guys had no idea?
12:16
Speaker 1: Well we had Luchador mask on. Oh, it's part of it.
12:20
Speaker 1: That's sexy. Well it seems like a good idea of time,
12:22
Speaker 1: and now it's tradition, and we're bound by that. We
12:25
Speaker 1: are nothing if not fans of tradition. So same. So
12:30
Speaker 1: what what's next? What's next? I don't know who wants
12:32
Speaker 1: to go next? You want to go next to her? Ubi? Yeah? Okay.
12:36
Speaker 1: The first one I'm going to talk about is nippet
12:39
Speaker 1: in the bud, nip it in the button. Come on, folks,
12:42
Speaker 1: we know what that means, or if we don't, we
12:44
Speaker 1: at least have used it and thought that makes sense. Technically,
12:47
Speaker 1: it's a horticultural metaphor, alluding to put it in a
12:51
Speaker 1: stop to something uh, in its early stages, before it
12:54
Speaker 1: becomes um you know negative it grows out of and
12:59
Speaker 1: matask the size and takes over your entire garden. Right,
13:03
Speaker 1: And it's derived from like the budding of plants and
13:05
Speaker 1: the whole horticulture thing because you cut the top then
13:08
Speaker 1: you can't grow into a beautiful fruit, that's right. So
13:10
Speaker 1: when you say it, it sounds to me like whenever
13:12
Speaker 1: people use that, it's almost like a bit of a
13:15
Speaker 1: tongue in cheek way of trying to sound Southern, kind
13:18
Speaker 1: of like it just nippet in the button. It is.
13:20
Speaker 1: I feel very particularly southern. Actually, I remember first hearing
13:24
Speaker 1: it um from Barney five and you know and the
13:28
Speaker 1: Griffin the show. That's that's strange because I would also assume,
13:33
Speaker 1: if I'm overthinking this, that in the original hortic cultural sense,
13:38
Speaker 1: it's still it doesn't kill the plant, the roots. Still,
13:41
Speaker 1: it does not kill the planet, just stops it before
13:44
Speaker 1: it can reach it, you know, flowery climax. Okay, So
13:48
Speaker 1: somebody is, for instance, say, uh, collecting way too many
13:53
Speaker 1: what what's a weird thing for someone to collect tales? Tales?
13:57
Speaker 1: They're collecting too many tales. T A I C A
14:00
Speaker 1: I L s. Okay, they're collected too many tales and
14:03
Speaker 1: they say, okay, fourteen is enough. It's getting weird. I'm
14:07
Speaker 1: gonna nip it in the bud. But that means they're
14:09
Speaker 1: not necessarily going to get rid of the other fourteen.
14:11
Speaker 1: That's they're just nipping their weird tail collection in the
14:15
Speaker 1: bud before people start calling that person, you know, the
14:19
Speaker 1: tail freak of of Cincinnati. Now it's interesting, there's actually
14:25
Speaker 1: even another version of this that is nipp it in
14:28
Speaker 1: the bloom um and it was first cited in a
14:32
Speaker 1: work by Henry Chettel in a book called a Romance
14:36
Speaker 1: book called Piers Plans seven years Apprenticeship. I'm guessing that's
14:41
Speaker 1: Old English. It's p I e r S p l A.
14:44
Speaker 1: I almost sounded French for a second, but then it's
14:46
Speaker 1: got years spelled y E r e s, which is
14:49
Speaker 1: very Canterbury tails if you ask me. And that's from
14:53
Speaker 1: that doesn't quite add up to Old English, though, does it, guys.
14:56
Speaker 1: I also found that this is one of those idioms
15:00
Speaker 1: that people tend to mispronounce or misunderstand. There are a
15:04
Speaker 1: lot of people listen, Oh, I already know what do
15:07
Speaker 1: they think it is? They think it's nippet in the butt?
15:11
Speaker 1: Were going to say, yes, you're correct, which is ridiculous.
15:16
Speaker 1: What would what would nip it in the butt mean?
15:19
Speaker 1: Does it? What would that mean? Do you give it
15:21
Speaker 1: a little bite, a little tweak, yeah, a little love bite? Yeah? Okay,
15:25
Speaker 1: So so I was actually wrong. It turns out Chettle
15:27
Speaker 1: was actually a contemporary of Christopher Marlowe, who was like
15:30
Speaker 1: a contemporary of William Shakespeare. So the Old English talk
15:33
Speaker 1: kind of that that does hold true, but I believe
15:35
Speaker 1: the Cannabary Tales were a little earlier than that. But
15:37
Speaker 1: it does feel like right in that in line with that,
15:40
Speaker 1: and that's where it first came from. Um, which is
15:43
Speaker 1: I didn't know either. But I'm just I'm just googling
15:45
Speaker 1: away right now as we talked about this, because you
15:47
Speaker 1: have you got mom, I literally I literally didn't take
15:50
Speaker 1: that note because I couldn't pronounce any of those words.
15:54
Speaker 1: Just so you know, I also found that a well,
15:57
Speaker 1: that's the thing, though, I just want you to to
15:58
Speaker 1: be very comfortable. A big part of this show is
16:01
Speaker 1: the fact that we don't try that hard to pronounce
16:03
Speaker 1: things correctly other than wonderful yes, because we do have
16:08
Speaker 1: We don't want to be vague about this. We want
16:10
Speaker 1: to be specific. We we have a francophone and our
16:13
Speaker 1: super producers. So he will he will handle a lot
16:17
Speaker 1: of the French wars. It's also because of the French
16:19
Speaker 1: are the most judge. Well occasionally, it's because occasionally he'll
16:24
Speaker 1: do it with some reluctance because we have just spraying
16:27
Speaker 1: it on him and said, hey, Casey, here's a paragraph
16:31
Speaker 1: of French. Could you just translate this for us? But he,
16:34
Speaker 1: you know, he he understands the game and he is
16:37
Speaker 1: he has taken to it over time, and now he
16:40
Speaker 1: doesn't even make a face anymore when we asked him
16:42
Speaker 1: to help us pronounce a face on the inside. As
16:46
Speaker 1: long as he is, he is a champion among that.
16:51
Speaker 1: I also feel like it's largely about um, yeah, you're
16:55
Speaker 1: totally right, like getting rid of the early stages of
16:59
Speaker 1: something so hasn't become something worse. But usually it's about
17:02
Speaker 1: a problem, right, or it's about like a person. It's like,
17:05
Speaker 1: we're gonna nip this in the bug. We're gonna like
17:07
Speaker 1: sort out this disagreement now before it gets out of
17:11
Speaker 1: control and everything gets blown out of proportion. That seems
17:13
Speaker 1: to be the way that I'm familiar with it being.
17:16
Speaker 1: Now now I'm increasingly a fan, and thank you for
17:18
Speaker 1: this rowin of uh nippt in the butt. I'm just
17:21
Speaker 1: gonna see, you've just been sitting over there. How long
17:24
Speaker 1: I can pull that off in normal conversation? Sure, someone
17:29
Speaker 1: they do, they do, and the glasses and they go, actually,
17:33
Speaker 1: it's the butt. And I learned that from Rowan New
17:35
Speaker 1: Beyond Ridiculous History. And I'll say, you know, I I
17:40
Speaker 1: co founded and host that show, and then and they'll
17:43
Speaker 1: say who are you? And I will, naturally, of course,
17:45
Speaker 1: as I always do it in airport say my name
17:47
Speaker 1: is Casey pegrum and the wage mayham across the terminal,
17:55
Speaker 1: but um, well, nipping it in the butt aside. Uh,
17:59
Speaker 1: this is I think this is Uh. I'm been learning
18:02
Speaker 1: a lot. I don't know about you guys. Know it's
18:04
Speaker 1: every day is a shiny new penny, as our our
18:06
Speaker 1: cohort Holly Fry likes to say, and every day is
18:09
Speaker 1: a winding road, as Cheryl Crow once said. It's true
18:12
Speaker 1: only once though. Wow, I don't know that that song
18:15
Speaker 1: was was pretty hot? No, I mean she did it
18:18
Speaker 1: in one tick? Do you think so? No? Is that true?
18:22
Speaker 1: This is also as lies about Cheryl Crow podcast. Yeah,
18:26
Speaker 1: watch out, she listens to this show regular She is
18:31
Speaker 1: also notoriously retigious, incredibly touchy, sorry, and pedantic. Cheryl, I,
18:39
Speaker 1: I'm just rasing you. I'm a snipping you in the butt. Okay.
18:42
Speaker 1: All of our itune interviews that are not favorable are
18:45
Speaker 1: in fact written by Cheryl Crow. Yeah. She has like
18:48
Speaker 1: a clip farm, like in somewhere in you know, Taiwan,
18:52
Speaker 1: or it's just like fifty young children just writing mean
18:55
Speaker 1: reviews about ridiculous history. It's where most of her royalties
18:59
Speaker 1: have gone. She's put a lot of time into you
19:02
Speaker 1: have to do some Most of your streams too, are
19:04
Speaker 1: from her click farm. Yes, gosh, but you know you've
19:08
Speaker 1: made it when you have like a true nemesis. And
19:12
Speaker 1: what better nemesis to have than multi Grammy award winning
19:16
Speaker 1: artist like CHERRYL. Crow. Yeah, you guys, you made it.
19:20
Speaker 1: Yeah it Actually we were all holding hands right now,
19:25
Speaker 1: by the way, and we it might sound like we're joking,
19:27
Speaker 1: but I want to be completely sincere. I would like
19:30
Speaker 1: to confess something about my personal life. As a child,
19:34
Speaker 1: I had a dream, a recurring dream, where the violinist
19:38
Speaker 1: of Dave Matthews Band hated me somehow knew who I
19:42
Speaker 1: was and despised me. And eventually I thought, maybe that's
19:46
Speaker 1: maybe that's correct, maybe not just like I didn't think
19:49
Speaker 1: specifically of a nemesis, but I thought, man, it would
19:52
Speaker 1: be amazing if I had a celebrity, not not a huge,
19:56
Speaker 1: huge celebrity, but who was a celebrity justknew me and
20:00
Speaker 1: intensely and publicly didn't care for my whole But how
20:04
Speaker 1: did this manifest use? Did he swat you with his bow?
20:07
Speaker 1: In uh? In the dream, which was a recurring dream, again,
20:12
Speaker 1: I would go to a concert, a Dave Matthews concerts
20:15
Speaker 1: when they were pretty bad. You knew it was a
20:17
Speaker 1: dream because you never go to a Dave Matthews concert.
20:21
Speaker 1: Some dream logic there, my friends, and I was. I
20:24
Speaker 1: was in the I was in the concert. I was
20:27
Speaker 1: inevitably on a date of the person I was dating
20:30
Speaker 1: would change because I had this dream over a number
20:32
Speaker 1: of years. And then at some point in the concert,
20:35
Speaker 1: when they paused between songs, the violinist of Dave Matthews
20:40
Speaker 1: group would come up and say, I know Ben Bullen
20:44
Speaker 1: is in the crowd tonight and say horrible, horrible stuff
20:47
Speaker 1: about me. This is a true story. And I used
20:50
Speaker 1: to think it meant that I was destined to go
20:52
Speaker 1: to a Dave Matthews concert. But I have not done,
20:54
Speaker 1: so I have an alternate theory. Um. Well, first of all,
20:57
Speaker 1: I inexplicably no that the violin for Dave Matthews band's
21:01
Speaker 1: name is Boyd Tinsley. Um and he passed away? Did
21:04
Speaker 1: he did pass? Well? You know, I think he actually
21:06
Speaker 1: just got kicked out of the band because it turns
21:07
Speaker 1: out he was not a good guy. I think he
21:09
Speaker 1: was accused of some some sexual harassment and um, and
21:13
Speaker 1: he got fired. Oh man, I might, in some incredibly
21:17
Speaker 1: useless way be capable of precognitive dreams. Possible. Um. I
21:21
Speaker 1: think that that boyd Tinsley of the Dave of Matthews
21:23
Speaker 1: band represented your inner insecurity has been and it manifested
21:28
Speaker 1: itself plus front of God and everyone and and and
21:32
Speaker 1: you had to contend with that night after night after
21:34
Speaker 1: night like some kind of fresh personal Hell yeah. Plus
21:37
Speaker 1: you went on. You were saying it was always dates
21:39
Speaker 1: and that the girl changed every time. It's probably because
21:42
Speaker 1: you were taking her to Dave Matthews comin. I never
21:45
Speaker 1: saw you again? What are you doing? Uh? For the record,
21:49
Speaker 1: I believe it was Leroy Moore who actually passed away.
21:52
Speaker 1: And the clarinetis so so back to the subject of
21:58
Speaker 1: the podcast. Thank you for joining me on that strange
22:00
Speaker 1: dream journey. Guys, I hope I don't have that dream again.
22:04
Speaker 1: Where how long has it been? It has been at
22:07
Speaker 1: least at least a decade. Then you're cured. We say
22:11
Speaker 1: that now there's a there's really only two outcomes here.
22:16
Speaker 1: One that you start having that dream again horribly in abundance,
22:22
Speaker 1: or you never have it again because you've finally gotten
22:24
Speaker 1: this off your chest and now you're you're safe. It
22:28
Speaker 1: would be the modern day equivalent of the violinist for
22:30
Speaker 1: Dave Matthews band. I know they're still around, but would
22:33
Speaker 1: it be John Mayor of Dave Matthews back there you go,
22:36
Speaker 1: or anybody in cold Play aside from the main guy.
22:40
Speaker 1: Are you saying like the equivalent meaning another violinist, another
22:43
Speaker 1: sort of ancillary player in like a very like contemporary giant,
22:48
Speaker 1: uber popular jam band who might possibly start appearing in
22:52
Speaker 1: Ben's dreams and talking smack dawn. We may have cursed,
22:56
Speaker 1: we may have cursed me. It may just be ERRYL. Crow.
23:00
Speaker 1: I was gonna say the guitarist for like Rage Against
23:02
Speaker 1: the Machine or Slash, you know, one of those um
23:06
Speaker 1: like vice presidents of the bands essentially were there as
23:09
Speaker 1: famous but not really, you know, just all of them
23:11
Speaker 1: will meet you like uh at the dinner table, will
23:14
Speaker 1: be Slash, Keith Richards. You know, well it's not you, guys.
23:20
Speaker 1: I will carry We will have your back, sir, We
23:23
Speaker 1: will we will fight off this horde of trash talk
23:28
Speaker 1: dream villains, weird bad band dream villains. But hey, we
23:32
Speaker 1: should probably nip this in the but and here from
23:37
Speaker 1: no is it my turn my turn pretty good. Okay,
23:41
Speaker 1: that was pretty good. It was absolutely proper use of
23:43
Speaker 1: that expression. And now I learned we actually no, no
23:46
Speaker 1: a little bit more about where it comes from. So, um,
23:49
Speaker 1: here's mine. The funny thing about a lot of these
23:51
Speaker 1: phrases is out of context. Like you you get so
23:54
Speaker 1: used to hearing them that you never even think about
23:56
Speaker 1: what the words even really mean. Right, I think that's
23:59
Speaker 1: a big part of this. So for me it was
24:00
Speaker 1: basket case, right, So I we all know how basket
24:04
Speaker 1: case is uses referring to someone that doesn't have their
24:06
Speaker 1: their life together or that it's like having a crisis
24:08
Speaker 1: or whatever he's saying, or you can say it about yourself.
24:10
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, I'm such a basket case today. I'm
24:12
Speaker 1: just nothing's going right for me, disorganized. But more specifically,
24:16
Speaker 1: it's like more of having like a bit of a
24:18
Speaker 1: mental health break down. I think we can all remember
24:20
Speaker 1: the the seminal. I've been using that word a lot
24:22
Speaker 1: in this episode today, but I'm gonna keep rolling with it.
24:25
Speaker 1: Um nineteen nineties Green Day song basket Case, where he
24:29
Speaker 1: talks about how you know, he gives himself the creeps
24:31
Speaker 1: his mind plays tricks on him. He's cracking up. He
24:34
Speaker 1: thinks he's had enough. He's paranoid, or he might just
24:37
Speaker 1: be stoned. Um, but he's having a hard time, Billy
24:41
Speaker 1: Joe Armstrong in his faux British accent, he's having a
24:45
Speaker 1: really hard times. He has just yeah, he really has.
24:51
Speaker 1: So here's the problem that I had when I started
24:54
Speaker 1: really thinking about before doing the research about basket case.
24:57
Speaker 1: I think of the word case, and I think of
24:59
Speaker 1: it as like a like a suitcase. So I'm like,
25:01
Speaker 1: but isn't a basket already a case for things? It's
25:04
Speaker 1: sort of a wicker case, right, it's a basket, it's
25:07
Speaker 1: kind of machine. So when I thought it's it's a
25:10
Speaker 1: little redundant. But so I thought, maybe it just meant
25:13
Speaker 1: a useless thing or a redundant, silly, ridiculous thing, like
25:16
Speaker 1: he needs a case for a basket. A baskets already
25:19
Speaker 1: its own case, like having a bag for a bag.
25:22
Speaker 1: It's a waste. It turns out nothing to do with
25:24
Speaker 1: any of that, Absolutely nothing to do with any of that. Um.
25:28
Speaker 1: The origins of the term basket case date back to
25:31
Speaker 1: UH nineteen nineteen during World War One, and it was
25:36
Speaker 1: um a term that was used to describe a particularly
25:42
Speaker 1: brutal type of wound or series of wounds experienced by soldiers,
25:49
Speaker 1: the the dreaded quadruple amputation, the quadruple amputation. So you've
25:56
Speaker 1: lost your arms and your legs and are therefore in
26:00
Speaker 1: need of being carried around in a basket. Therefore, you
26:05
Speaker 1: are a basket case. Um. And it of course is
26:10
Speaker 1: morphed over time, and we'll get to that. But here's
26:12
Speaker 1: the thing. It actually has been consistently um denied by
26:18
Speaker 1: army officials that there ever were any basket cases. So
26:22
Speaker 1: here's here's here's the thing in World War One. Well,
26:25
Speaker 1: and it goes on. So the Surgeon General of the
26:27
Speaker 1: Army um uh. In nineteen nineteen, the United States Surgeon
26:31
Speaker 1: General said that there were no foundation for any of
26:34
Speaker 1: the stories, um that have been circulated, because this term
26:38
Speaker 1: kind of had been making the rounds. And he uses
26:41
Speaker 1: the term basket case to describe a thing that he
26:43
Speaker 1: says doesn't exist. So he acknowledges the term in its existence.
26:47
Speaker 1: But he says, but there there are no such cases
26:50
Speaker 1: as as would be required to be carried in baskets. Right, So, um,
26:54
Speaker 1: it's a paradox. It's a bit of a paradox. But
26:57
Speaker 1: then you know, we've got World War Two and the
26:59
Speaker 1: term kind of stuck around in the zeitgeist. And yet
27:03
Speaker 1: again Surgeon General in nineteen forty four says, quote, there
27:08
Speaker 1: is nothing to rumors of so called basket cases and
27:11
Speaker 1: then goes on to say cases of men with both
27:13
Speaker 1: arms and legs amputated. Um. So here's the interesting part.
27:19
Speaker 1: Apparently there was a case of a Canadian soldier that
27:23
Speaker 1: is pretty well documented who did experience quadruple amputations, but
27:29
Speaker 1: he actually went on to lead a very productive life,
27:31
Speaker 1: and he was fitted with prosthetic legs and even um
27:34
Speaker 1: had a prosthetic arm um fitted to him that allowed
27:38
Speaker 1: him to be able to write and lived a very
27:41
Speaker 1: normal and productive life. And this comes from a fantastic
27:44
Speaker 1: article on grammar phobia dot com that refers to the
27:48
Speaker 1: basket case myth um. So obviously the term evolved over
27:53
Speaker 1: time and became much more of an expression referring to
27:57
Speaker 1: mental health and someone who, as we say at the top,
28:01
Speaker 1: it's experiencing trauma or anxiety or you know, having some
28:05
Speaker 1: kind of breakdown. Right. So, after World War Two, the
28:09
Speaker 1: term stop being used to refer to these kind of
28:12
Speaker 1: imaginary basket cases, because there was really no proof of
28:15
Speaker 1: them ever having existed. But considering I don't know, Ben,
28:18
Speaker 1: you're you're a bit of a war historian yourself in
28:20
Speaker 1: terms of your interests, can't you imagine that there must
28:23
Speaker 1: have been at least a handful of cases where someone
28:25
Speaker 1: had been injured so badly by explosions that they may
28:28
Speaker 1: have had to have and it doesn't seem a little fishy.
28:31
Speaker 1: This official line was like, this never happened. Well, here's
28:34
Speaker 1: the grizzly thing. It probably did happen, but people's odds
28:38
Speaker 1: of surviving much lower. That's right, that's why the Canadian
28:42
Speaker 1: case was noteworthy. That's a good point. But that's an
28:46
Speaker 1: extraordinary story, man, Yeah it is. And then then somehow
28:49
Speaker 1: it just kind of like things do um evolved to
28:53
Speaker 1: a completely different meaning entirely because of the fact that
28:55
Speaker 1: these cases didn't exist, But the term was still floating around,
28:58
Speaker 1: and that zite guys people kind of start it, adapting
29:00
Speaker 1: it and referring to people that didn't have their act together.
29:03
Speaker 1: But then it's still it's still used today. And the
29:06
Speaker 1: interesting thing is, obviously is a little bit of a
29:09
Speaker 1: in poor taste kind of term. No matter how you
29:12
Speaker 1: use it, it's a pejorative, especially if you're talking about
29:14
Speaker 1: any person with a disability, and then when you apply
29:17
Speaker 1: it to somebody that's having trouble psychologically, that's also not
29:20
Speaker 1: very nice. So it's actually become more instyled to use
29:24
Speaker 1: it to refer to things and nations as opposed to people.
29:28
Speaker 1: And there's a really interesting article in the Guardian, Um
29:31
Speaker 1: I think it was a letter to the editor and
29:32
Speaker 1: it's called basket case the case against and it talks
29:35
Speaker 1: about how it is just lazy writing, um, and it
29:38
Speaker 1: should not be used and that then it goes in
29:41
Speaker 1: sights how often it is used. So apparently, Um, the
29:45
Speaker 1: Sun in the UK thinks that Greece, Zimbabwe and Spain
29:49
Speaker 1: are basket cases and that Prince William could have been one,
29:53
Speaker 1: but then he married Kate Middleton's so now he's he's okay,
29:55
Speaker 1: he's not a basket case. Um. And then you've got
29:57
Speaker 1: the Times that believes grease in Argentina are basque cases.
30:01
Speaker 1: Africa once was, but now isn't. They now refer to
30:04
Speaker 1: it as a bread basket. And then um, they also
30:07
Speaker 1: talk about particular governments that are basket cases. Companies to
30:11
Speaker 1: companies that are basket cases. Um, and this this writer
30:15
Speaker 1: makes the case that it's just bad writing and then
30:17
Speaker 1: it doesn't have any metaphorical power anymore, and to just
30:21
Speaker 1: let it go. And I would be inclined to agree
30:24
Speaker 1: in some aspect. They got that from George Orwell's Rules
30:27
Speaker 1: of writing. He is the guy who famously said, never
30:30
Speaker 1: use an idiom figure speech or phrase that you are
30:34
Speaker 1: used to seeing in print. And uh, he broke that
30:38
Speaker 1: rule often, just by the way. And this this commentary
30:42
Speaker 1: was by a writer named David marsh Um and Ben.
30:45
Speaker 1: As you said at the top of the podcast, war
30:48
Speaker 1: often brings new idioms into circulation. And it makes sense
30:51
Speaker 1: because you have people of different ethnicities mixing under times
30:55
Speaker 1: of great duress, and you've got a lot of like
30:58
Speaker 1: kind of phrases that co mingle and take on new
31:01
Speaker 1: meaning and get adopted, you know, by different cultures. And Um,
31:04
Speaker 1: I think we had a couple that we want to
31:06
Speaker 1: just throw out real quick. Yeah, sure, sure. There's for instance,
31:10
Speaker 1: boom docks, which now was meant to indicate a place
31:13
Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere, right. The boon docks originally
31:17
Speaker 1: was a phrase in Tagalic in the Philippines and it
31:21
Speaker 1: just been mountain or there's uh, it's another one, pip squeak, right,
31:26
Speaker 1: that's one pip squeaks. An interesting one because that was
31:28
Speaker 1: actually a very particular type of small German gun that
31:32
Speaker 1: was used in trench warfare during World War One, and
31:35
Speaker 1: then you have steaking of trench warfare. The trench coat
31:38
Speaker 1: was very specifically one a garment that was worn originally
31:43
Speaker 1: in trench warfare, so that was a thing they didn't
31:46
Speaker 1: have a name for, and then they called it a
31:47
Speaker 1: trench coat. Interesting. I mean, you call pip squeaks, Uh,
31:51
Speaker 1: you refer to someone as a pip squeak if they're
31:53
Speaker 1: kind of just a nerdy, precocious kid now or in
31:56
Speaker 1: any way diminutive and not worthy of your respect. Right. Sure.
32:00
Speaker 1: That reminded me of another one. Fleabag actually, as in
32:03
Speaker 1: like a fleabag hotel. Oh I missed that phrase. Yeah,
32:07
Speaker 1: first to uh, grimy and just unsuitable sleeping arrangements. You know,
32:11
Speaker 1: the word comes from slang actually used by soldiers in
32:14
Speaker 1: the trenches referring to their sleeping bags. So that would
32:18
Speaker 1: have often been absolutely infested with fleas under these horrible conditions.
32:22
Speaker 1: So you know, from awful circumstances sometimes come fun idioms, yes, yes,
32:27
Speaker 1: and funds fun idioms idioms. Actually, we have tintenabulated that one, right, uh,
32:36
Speaker 1: speaking of downtown Abbey did what did you say? Intenabulated?
32:40
Speaker 1: So tintinabulation is one of my favorite examples of how
32:44
Speaker 1: you can simply create a word out of more or
32:47
Speaker 1: less whole cloth and believe. It was Edgar Allum Poe
32:51
Speaker 1: who used who coined the term tintinabulation to mean the
32:55
Speaker 1: sound of bells ringing. Whoa, yeah, just the sound of
33:00
Speaker 1: ringing bells or the sound after a bell has been rung.
33:02
Speaker 1: He just made it up. He just styled on it,
33:04
Speaker 1: or as we've said before on this show, he curtified it.
33:12
Speaker 1: This idea of bags fleabags, it's an excellent segue. I have.
33:18
Speaker 1: I have one that will be familiar to you Knowlan,
33:22
Speaker 1: to you Casey, and perhaps to you long time ridiculous
33:26
Speaker 1: historians or fans of other shows. It is the phrase
33:29
Speaker 1: to let the cat out of the bag or the
33:32
Speaker 1: badger classic yes, yes, or in our case the badger. So,
33:38
Speaker 1: going back to what you said earlier, know about how
33:41
Speaker 1: it's strange that certain phrases can just feel normal because
33:45
Speaker 1: of the context in which they occur. Let the cat
33:47
Speaker 1: out of the bag is something that everyone who speaks
33:51
Speaker 1: English typically understands. Right to reveal a secret of some sort, uh,
33:57
Speaker 1: sometimes an unpleasant truth, sometimes a pleasant surprise. But when
34:02
Speaker 1: you think about it, it's really strange, Like when's the
34:06
Speaker 1: last time you walked around with a cat in a bag?
34:10
Speaker 1: Or someone was like, hey, will you hold this bag
34:13
Speaker 1: for me? To be careful? It has a kid full
34:15
Speaker 1: of cats of cats, There's no time to explain. It
34:19
Speaker 1: feels like a very old person, bad habit you. It
34:23
Speaker 1: might stand from like a granny who was going through
34:27
Speaker 1: serious episode of dementia and uh had a poter kiddy
34:30
Speaker 1: cat in a bag, or simply refused to pay for
34:34
Speaker 1: one of those cat carriers, right, and I'm not going
34:37
Speaker 1: to pay for it, wastefars. I got this perfectly good bag,
34:41
Speaker 1: I tend to h I tend to picture the bag
34:43
Speaker 1: is being a pillow case and the act being much
34:47
Speaker 1: more of like I'm hunting cats and I'm going to
34:50
Speaker 1: put the cat in the bag and then I'm going
34:51
Speaker 1: to hit the bag and drowning kittens or something like that. Yeah,
34:56
Speaker 1: come mo style not good. Well, luckily it's quite possibly
35:00
Speaker 1: not that dark. I have to take quite possibly. So
35:03
Speaker 1: the first recorded use of this frame, it's positive the
35:05
Speaker 1: cat got out of the bag. There we go. The
35:08
Speaker 1: first recorded use of it comes from this book review
35:11
Speaker 1: in seventeen sixty in London magazine and the reviewer is
35:17
Speaker 1: complaining about this book that they've read, and they say,
35:22
Speaker 1: we could have wished that the author had not let
35:24
Speaker 1: the cat out of the bag. And so in this
35:26
Speaker 1: context it seems like it still as a present day meaning,
35:29
Speaker 1: which is that the author not spoiled a surprise or
35:32
Speaker 1: secret in the book. But this was used other times
35:37
Speaker 1: in print, and there are a few origin stories about
35:40
Speaker 1: how it came about. I'll give you, guys the first
35:44
Speaker 1: one and then tell you why I think it makes
35:48
Speaker 1: no sense. Uh So, the first one is this idea
35:51
Speaker 1: that goes all the way back to open air markets
35:55
Speaker 1: in Britain and the concept of unscrupulous tradesmen or con artist.
36:05
Speaker 1: The thing is that they would trade livestock right including pigs,
36:09
Speaker 1: which were a big deal at the time, and people
36:11
Speaker 1: would sometimes sell piglets in bags, or is the expression
36:15
Speaker 1: goes pigs in a poke poke would be another rover bag,
36:19
Speaker 1: not a blanket, not I don't blanket, they didn't get
36:25
Speaker 1: and as delicious, not well, you know, teach their own.
36:29
Speaker 1: But that's a corn dog. Actually yeah, I'm sorry, going, no,
36:34
Speaker 1: that's great. Is that really a term? Man? It is
36:37
Speaker 1: as a right now alright, tend to nebulate it. So
36:41
Speaker 1: the idiom that's related to is when a pig has
36:43
Speaker 1: offered open the poke, meaning that one should always check
36:46
Speaker 1: and inspect what you have before you leave, after you
36:49
Speaker 1: buy it. Don't buy some mystery thing in a bag
36:52
Speaker 1: just because someone told you what it was. That concept
36:55
Speaker 1: or figure speech dates back to at least the sixteenth century.
37:00
Speaker 1: Forgot where an audio podcast? So everybody, I'm sort of
37:02
Speaker 1: feutally gesturing with my thumb over my right shoulder for
37:07
Speaker 1: some reason. That's where the SI audible. So we can
37:11
Speaker 1: picture it now here we go. You can throw in
37:13
Speaker 1: some sound effects too. You've saved the show. So the
37:22
Speaker 1: idea is that these con artists would instead of giving
37:27
Speaker 1: somebody a piglet sold in a bag, they would capture
37:30
Speaker 1: and sell a much less valuable feral cat. This was
37:34
Speaker 1: a profitable practice for the con artist, but either way,
37:37
Speaker 1: the moment of the revelation. The origin of the phrase
37:41
Speaker 1: in this story is uh that someone would get home
37:45
Speaker 1: and they would open the bag, and this we can
37:48
Speaker 1: only imagine incredibly irritated cat would burst forth and re havoc,
37:54
Speaker 1: you know, become an agent of chaos. But this doesn't
37:59
Speaker 1: really make because even the largest cat is gonna weigh
38:03
Speaker 1: less than a pig, right, true, right, like a I'm
38:07
Speaker 1: not an expert piglet handler. It's not in my skill
38:11
Speaker 1: set yet. Your cats are pretty big, they're almost piglets sized, think, Yeah,
38:15
Speaker 1: they're sort of luxurious, furry, soft piglets. Yeah. Hey, and
38:20
Speaker 1: I've seen some emaciated pigs out there too. So maybe
38:24
Speaker 1: there's a n there's a sweet spot, there's a ven
38:26
Speaker 1: diagram here, or maybe they made it a pig and
38:29
Speaker 1: a cat. I'm just gonna leave it at that. Okay,
38:33
Speaker 1: that rhymes. That was very doctor. That made it a
38:36
Speaker 1: pig and a cat, and I'll leave it at that.
38:40
Speaker 1: Effects So there's but there's the thing, all right, So
38:44
Speaker 1: this doesn't really make sense because additionally, pigs and cats
38:49
Speaker 1: make audibly different noises. We can only assume that they
38:53
Speaker 1: would probably not be chilling in a bag, so we
38:55
Speaker 1: would hear some squeeze, some inks, et cetera, and we
38:58
Speaker 1: hear some loud hisses and meal and uh, you know,
39:02
Speaker 1: that seems easy to differentiate. But there's the other idea
39:05
Speaker 1: that it comes from a Spanish phrase, the Spanish equivalent
39:10
Speaker 1: uh got por libre to give a cap for a hair,
39:14
Speaker 1: because rabbits, sorry, h a r eat. Rabbits are commonly
39:18
Speaker 1: eaten during the fourteen fifteenth century, cat and a rabbit
39:21
Speaker 1: are most size, and it seems more plausible to pull
39:25
Speaker 1: the switchery this way. But the third theory is that
39:30
Speaker 1: sailors would get in trouble in the Royal Navy and
39:33
Speaker 1: the Royal Navy would keep them in line with a
39:37
Speaker 1: coda a cat of nine tails, and that this was
39:40
Speaker 1: originally kept in a red sack that people could that
39:44
Speaker 1: everybody was aware of, you know, kind of a warning
39:48
Speaker 1: hanging out in public view. And then when someone is
39:50
Speaker 1: going to be punished, the captain would order that they'd
39:52
Speaker 1: be trotted out. Everybody in the ship has to join
39:55
Speaker 1: on deck and then boom outcomes the red cloth bag
39:58
Speaker 1: and then boom ou the cat of nine tails and
40:01
Speaker 1: then shrinse and repeat. So that's a little more grizzly.
40:06
Speaker 1: I'm also miming taking out at nails in a fact. Yeah,
40:10
Speaker 1: that's interesting, Ben, because they both imply a negative thing
40:14
Speaker 1: being released that can wreak some havoc when it's let
40:18
Speaker 1: out into the world and one so they both kind
40:20
Speaker 1: of hold true. I have one quick question, Ben, you
40:23
Speaker 1: talked about the original let the Pig out of the
40:25
Speaker 1: poke or whatever, was about examining a purchase you're going
40:29
Speaker 1: to make and how it would be smart to do that.
40:32
Speaker 1: I think I know where you're going. It's kind of
40:33
Speaker 1: the opposite of looking a gift horse in the mouth, right,
40:36
Speaker 1: because that's impolite. If you're like examining a horse's teeth
40:40
Speaker 1: that was given to you as a gift, that's a
40:42
Speaker 1: no no, even though it would be prudent. Maybe, you know,
40:46
Speaker 1: even if a horse is a lot of responsibility, even
40:48
Speaker 1: if it was a gift, I would want to make
40:50
Speaker 1: sure I wasn't getting some kind of trash, you know,
40:53
Speaker 1: diseased horse. Yeah, I want a horse that goes to
40:57
Speaker 1: the dentist. Well, you can tell the age of the
41:00
Speaker 1: wars its teeth is one of the one of the factors,
41:04
Speaker 1: or just I don't want to sickly horse because they
41:06
Speaker 1: don't have to dispose of the horse. I might get
41:08
Speaker 1: close to the horse and become its pal to go
41:10
Speaker 1: on adventures, and then all of a sudden the horse
41:12
Speaker 1: drops dead, and then I'm left sad and alone the horse.
41:15
Speaker 1: I want to take a stick my head all the
41:17
Speaker 1: way in that mouth, so that that was it, and
41:19
Speaker 1: not to kick a dead horse if you will, Okay,
41:23
Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean if he was given away horses,
41:27
Speaker 1: that's the thing. I want to be at that point
41:29
Speaker 1: in my life where someone's like, hey man, I have
41:32
Speaker 1: this horse and I thought of you. I don't know
41:36
Speaker 1: what I would do with it, but it would definitely
41:39
Speaker 1: be a well wow, thanks you do you also give
41:43
Speaker 1: me a farm? Like it's like somebody giving you, like,
41:48
Speaker 1: here's a field for you to cultivate a farm and
41:52
Speaker 1: take care of and water. It's an obligations. Yeah, but
41:57
Speaker 1: that's the whole new career. Yeah. The last thing about
42:01
Speaker 1: this cat and the bag medium once you guys can
42:05
Speaker 1: tell it went on a little bit of rabbit hole
42:06
Speaker 1: on is the idea that it is a thing that
42:11
Speaker 1: cannot be reversed. It is very difficult to get that
42:14
Speaker 1: cat back in the bag, right, it's a Pandora's boxer,
42:17
Speaker 1: Pandora's jar situation, Pandora's bag, Pandora's bag, thank you, Pandora's
42:22
Speaker 1: basket past. So now oh we are now we are
42:28
Speaker 1: armed with that, and I'm liking the I think it
42:31
Speaker 1: took us in a weird animal direction. But I was
42:33
Speaker 1: just captivated because I really wanted to know if there
42:36
Speaker 1: had ever been, you know, some prominent myth or some
42:40
Speaker 1: real life historical occurrence wherein someone was like, all right, guys,
42:45
Speaker 1: I've got this bag. I think there's a cat in
42:48
Speaker 1: it there with me. It's exactly well, what kind of
42:53
Speaker 1: was I guess? Cat out of the bag? Everybody you
42:56
Speaker 1: heard it here? First was the o G spoiler learnt U. Yeah,
43:02
Speaker 1: that's the cool way of saying it now, but that's
43:05
Speaker 1: out of the bag. No one likes to say that,
43:07
Speaker 1: you know, when you ruin the ending of six cents
43:10
Speaker 1: cats all right, grandpa? More like the plots out of
43:14
Speaker 1: the bag. Yeah, because that, guys, Bruce willis the whole time,
43:20
Speaker 1: It's always he was Haley Joe Osmond Ember as well
43:23
Speaker 1: as the whole time. I just gotta say it. I
43:26
Speaker 1: saw an episode of Future Man. You guys, know that
43:29
Speaker 1: what I thought you heard us about to ruin the
43:30
Speaker 1: ending of sixth Cents, I just gotta say that, I
43:33
Speaker 1: think that's past. The statute of limitationished this and other shows.
43:38
Speaker 1: But still it's just wait, what were you going to say? Well,
43:40
Speaker 1: Eli Joel Osmond is still acting. He was in Silicon Valley.
43:44
Speaker 1: He looks very, very different. He looks he's a very
43:48
Speaker 1: um and I don't mean this in disrespectful ways. He
43:52
Speaker 1: still has the same facial features in the same arrangement,
43:56
Speaker 1: but he's he's pretty big, but the face is just
43:59
Speaker 1: kind of dropped in the middle of his head. Yeah,
44:03
Speaker 1: he's I think he's really funny and and I really
44:05
Speaker 1: a great guy. He's on Comedy Bang Bang a lot,
44:07
Speaker 1: and he was on the Comedy Bank Bang TV show,
44:09
Speaker 1: and they kind of played into that slightly odd look
44:11
Speaker 1: because he plays a character called slow Joey. So I'm
44:16
Speaker 1: I mean, I didn't that wasn't my idea, but you know,
44:18
Speaker 1: he definitely has a sense of humor and absolutely, I
44:21
Speaker 1: mean like him on Silicon Valley is a similar kind
44:24
Speaker 1: of you know, hair brained character. Is he also kind
44:28
Speaker 1: of a weird back in alien kind of debauched weird
44:31
Speaker 1: Hollywood executie type guy who was always drugging and boozing
44:36
Speaker 1: and womanizing. Did I make that up? Um? It's kind of.
44:39
Speaker 1: He seems more like dopey and brought out of bush tail,
44:42
Speaker 1: as opposed to the other guy who's like that, who's like,
44:44
Speaker 1: really maniacal. I think characters characters. Well, yeah, Haley, Joe,
44:49
Speaker 1: if you if you're listening, is he on Future Man?
44:51
Speaker 1: Is that Future Man? H he is without spoiling thing.
44:56
Speaker 1: He's also unhinged in Future Man. I was just watching
45:00
Speaker 1: a surprise because he didn't believe it was him at first.
45:02
Speaker 1: I've never seen it. You know, it's worth your time.
45:04
Speaker 1: It's it's it's I'll watch it in the Future Man.
45:07
Speaker 1: All right, we'll let the cat out of the back
45:09
Speaker 1: rowan newby. What else do you have for us? Hey?
45:12
Speaker 1: You know both of you two. I like the cut
45:15
Speaker 1: of y'all's jib. That's true. This jib right here, that jip,
45:19
Speaker 1: this whole thing. Huh the jib over there too. I stay, Jim,
45:22
Speaker 1: and I see it. You guys have heard this probably
45:25
Speaker 1: kind of, you can assume. Mainly on The Sopranos. Mainly
45:28
Speaker 1: on The Sopranos, for sure. It's actually from maritime traditions.
45:32
Speaker 1: It's as old as like seventeenth century, eighteenth century. It's
45:36
Speaker 1: referencing the triangular shaped sail known as the jib. Some
45:40
Speaker 1: ships actually have more than one jib sail. They all
45:43
Speaker 1: have their own style. And I guess that's kind of
45:45
Speaker 1: refers to when you say I like the cut of
45:47
Speaker 1: your jib. It's like, oh, like, I like like your style. Man,
45:49
Speaker 1: I like your vibe, you know. So this is actually
45:52
Speaker 1: the jib, is the fabric, the exactly. Oh and another thing,
45:57
Speaker 1: And I don't know if this was verified or any
45:59
Speaker 1: but I read that because these jib sales look vaguely
46:05
Speaker 1: like a nose, it could refer very specifically to someone's
46:09
Speaker 1: facial features. Oh, which is pretty interesting. Yeah, that's a
46:13
Speaker 1: very specific compliment to give someone. I feel like you
46:17
Speaker 1: have to know someone pretty well for sure to be like, hey, hey,
46:21
Speaker 1: Jimmy Duranty, I like the cut of your jib. You know,
46:25
Speaker 1: that's a joke for the elders. Everyone google Jimmy. Come on,
46:33
Speaker 1: doesn't he say like something to make that up? Isn't
46:38
Speaker 1: as big nose isn't also quite red and largely probably
46:41
Speaker 1: due to burst blood vessels from alcoholism, balbous from the
46:45
Speaker 1: gin face for days. That makes sense. So wait, what
46:50
Speaker 1: is a jib sale? Though we know it's a sale,
46:54
Speaker 1: is it? You said they have multiple ones? Well, it's
46:57
Speaker 1: a I'm assuming affiliated with the mass of the boat.
47:02
Speaker 1: So which is the big wooden middle part that then vs.
47:06
Speaker 1: The jib sale? I don't quote me on that, but
47:10
Speaker 1: this is what I took in when I was scrambling
47:14
Speaker 1: to learn the animalogy of chip and I'm surprised to
47:18
Speaker 1: learn that there's this um nasal illusion. Now I'm gonna
47:23
Speaker 1: start calling people's noses jibs for sure. Keep you jib cleaning,
47:27
Speaker 1: keep a jim clean man what you mean? So with noses,
47:33
Speaker 1: don't don't be putting your jib and other people's you know, jibs.
47:39
Speaker 1: Remember jib jab. Okay, we're going off tangent now. I'm
47:44
Speaker 1: just going to replace the word knows with jib every
47:47
Speaker 1: time I every time the opportunity presents this along with
47:50
Speaker 1: nippet in the butt is setting up my next Oh
47:53
Speaker 1: my god, butts and noses, and then that's that's a
47:55
Speaker 1: perfect setup for a brown nose. Of course, think about that,
48:00
Speaker 1: which is kind of one that I thought about earlier
48:02
Speaker 1: as well. That's disgusting. Fair enough, that's discussed. That's disgusting.
48:05
Speaker 1: I feel like that because it refers to the pooh
48:07
Speaker 1: on the nose because you're kissing someone's booty so hard. Well,
48:12
Speaker 1: you know, the rest is obvious. But and that's why
48:14
Speaker 1: I didn't actually choose that one, because it seems obvious. Well,
48:16
Speaker 1: there's someone maybe who has a who's just having a
48:20
Speaker 1: the more you know moment right now Brown right the
48:24
Speaker 1: light bulb over their head just bursts. They're like, oh, okay,
48:28
Speaker 1: I get it. Brown knows god it, Pope. I want
48:35
Speaker 1: to check in real quick, Casey or any of these
48:37
Speaker 1: surprising you so far? Uh? I hate to be the
48:41
Speaker 1: un actually guy, but no, not well hold on, Casey,
48:48
Speaker 1: you didn't know the history of all these. You assumed
48:52
Speaker 1: this is an educational program. This is true, this is true. Well, well,
48:56
Speaker 1: we still luckily have one more shot to uh surprised
49:01
Speaker 1: and unactually are again very beloved super un Actually is
49:06
Speaker 1: that cannot be our next podcast? Actually it's a good idea, Noel,
49:13
Speaker 1: are our hopes for this episode today rest with you?
49:16
Speaker 1: My friends? Man, that's a lot of pressure, um and
49:19
Speaker 1: I'm struggling right now, because our our internet has has
49:22
Speaker 1: just abandoned me. It is forsaken me. We don't use
49:26
Speaker 1: that while recording. That is a line. This is straight
49:29
Speaker 1: from our endless Jeopardy brains. Well, that's that's very very nice,
49:34
Speaker 1: very nice of you to think that Rowan newbie. But
49:36
Speaker 1: but at last that is not the case. Although to
49:38
Speaker 1: be fair, Ben and are the only ones with laptop
49:39
Speaker 1: is chines in front of us right now. Rowan is
49:41
Speaker 1: pure pen and paper. I am a moral paper and brains.
49:46
Speaker 1: That's what rowing is. Doom doom, doom doom. Is that
49:55
Speaker 1: how you doing? Ice Ice baby? Or under pressure? You
49:57
Speaker 1: know what? Man, Let's be honest, Vanilla Ice ripped it off.
50:00
Speaker 1: They're just kind of intertwined at this point, right at
50:02
Speaker 1: that great moment that v H one uh whatever the
50:06
Speaker 1: show was where he tries to explain music. Yeah, yeah,
50:09
Speaker 1: where he tries to explain their different because he says
50:12
Speaker 1: there's a yeah, this is like an extra an extralip whatever.
50:21
Speaker 1: Well you guys, I I'm I'm ready. I'm ready to
50:24
Speaker 1: take on this and it's actually really serendipitous. Um I
50:29
Speaker 1: I did know what our pal Rowan was gonna do.
50:33
Speaker 1: Um with the cut of the jim and all. But
50:34
Speaker 1: I didn't actually do any research into it. I had
50:36
Speaker 1: no idea that it was a nautical term. As it
50:38
Speaker 1: turns out, mine is also a nautical term um, and
50:41
Speaker 1: it involves not the jib or the sale itself. And
50:45
Speaker 1: it's actually really interesting because I think that these things
50:49
Speaker 1: sound like they should be flipped. Mine is three sheets
50:52
Speaker 1: to the wind. And, as it turns out, in nautical parlance,
50:56
Speaker 1: which you would think would be the sale, not so
51:00
Speaker 1: it's the line that tethers the sale interesting right and
51:05
Speaker 1: comandwadays to mean someone who is very inebriated and very inereate.
51:10
Speaker 1: I I didn't know this one at all. I didn't
51:13
Speaker 1: even have any inkling. It's one of those ones that
51:14
Speaker 1: I just chose blindly to use um. And sometimes I
51:18
Speaker 1: would even go so far as to say more than
51:21
Speaker 1: three sheets, you know sheets, your seven sheets, your ten sheets,
51:25
Speaker 1: fifteen sheets to the wind, target, linen department to the
51:29
Speaker 1: wind exactly, your blotto exactly. Whatever. Yeah. So, uh, Rowan,
51:36
Speaker 1: you may not have I don't know how much of
51:39
Speaker 1: a stand fast fan riticularly story you are, but we
51:41
Speaker 1: did do an episode where we kind of listed through
51:43
Speaker 1: Benjamin Franklin's expressions for being drunk, and ben just listed
51:47
Speaker 1: a few. They're great, um, but one that Benjamin Franklin
51:49
Speaker 1: did not come up with is three sheets to the
51:52
Speaker 1: wind um And this is this is so crazy to
51:55
Speaker 1: me because yeah, these were not uh sheets or sales
51:59
Speaker 1: as you might think. There wasn't even wind. Well there
52:01
Speaker 1: there there hopefully was the ship's not gonna go. They
52:05
Speaker 1: were lines, ropes, sometimes they were chains, and they're the
52:09
Speaker 1: things if you've ever been on a sailboat or a
52:10
Speaker 1: sloop of some sort of perhaps a barge. No barges
52:14
Speaker 1: don't have sails, I don't know. I'm not a I'm
52:16
Speaker 1: a I'm a bit of it. I'm I'm a land lover.
52:19
Speaker 1: The call that, um, Yeah, they're fixed to the bottom
52:23
Speaker 1: corners of the sails to hold them in place that
52:25
Speaker 1: they catch the wind. And again, if there's any sailor
52:29
Speaker 1: types out there, forgive my ignorance. I'm doing the best
52:31
Speaker 1: I can. But I believe a sail would require three
52:35
Speaker 1: sheets to be properly fastened and uh and you know,
52:40
Speaker 1: tightened so that you could actually manipulate it and put
52:43
Speaker 1: it um, you know, in the direction of the wind,
52:45
Speaker 1: so it catches the wind. So but again, this to
52:48
Speaker 1: the wind business doesn't even refer to the wind that's
52:51
Speaker 1: catching the sails. It refers to the sheets or the
52:54
Speaker 1: lines being or in the wind. You know, like if
52:59
Speaker 1: their ship be steered, it can't be steered. Not only that,
53:02
Speaker 1: it's gonna be erratic because the sale is there and
53:07
Speaker 1: it's catching some of the wind, but it's flopping around
53:09
Speaker 1: like crazy, and so in sort of resembling a drunk
53:13
Speaker 1: person stumbling yeah, so um. They're actually variations on this, right,
53:19
Speaker 1: So if you're one sheet to the wind, you're gonna
53:23
Speaker 1: not be quite as tight. You're gonna have a little
53:25
Speaker 1: bit of a little a little bit of a little
53:27
Speaker 1: tipsy y's right. Um. And then if you've got two sheets,
53:31
Speaker 1: you're kind of in the middle there. And if you've
53:33
Speaker 1: got three sheets, you're not looking good. You're embarrassing yourself. Dad,
53:38
Speaker 1: go home, your boat has sprung a leak. If you
53:42
Speaker 1: do not get an uber boat home, that's the thing,
53:47
Speaker 1: and if it's not, it should be Also side note,
53:50
Speaker 1: in the time of f. Scott Fitzgerald, the phrase tight
53:54
Speaker 1: was used to mean getting drunk. That's right, that's right, Yeah,
53:57
Speaker 1: that is a that is a very very good edition there,
54:00
Speaker 1: ben Um. So it's interesting because this expression goes back
54:05
Speaker 1: to in a book by Pierce Egan called Real Life
54:09
Speaker 1: in London, and it um, this is out of context.
54:12
Speaker 1: And I'm getting this from an article on phrases dot
54:14
Speaker 1: org dot uk, which is fantastic for these etymological explorations. Um.
54:19
Speaker 1: And the quote that they cite out of context is fantastic.
54:22
Speaker 1: Old waxen bristles is about three sheets in the wind.
54:26
Speaker 1: It was old wax and I guess old waxen bristles. Everybody.
54:32
Speaker 1: Everybody was old wax and bristol waxen like it three
54:36
Speaker 1: sheets in the winds, not to the winds, yeah, exactly,
54:40
Speaker 1: and then then it got changed to to the wind
54:43
Speaker 1: and yeah. And then in this article as well, they
54:45
Speaker 1: talked about the scale of drunkenness that sailors had, where
54:48
Speaker 1: like I said before, three sheets was completely stupefied, falling
54:52
Speaker 1: over yourself, drunk, your tipsy, like you said, rowan was
54:55
Speaker 1: one sheet and then or a sheet in the wind's eye.
55:00
Speaker 1: And actually they don't list to two sheets, but surely
55:02
Speaker 1: two sheets was the middle ground has to be right,
55:05
Speaker 1: because that's going to give you some stability on that sale,
55:08
Speaker 1: but not enough. And they even have another example using
55:11
Speaker 1: a windmill, like a Dutch windmill, which would have fours.
55:16
Speaker 1: They would have four. Um, what do you call it turbans? No,
55:19
Speaker 1: that's not one wing on a turban is not a turban.
55:22
Speaker 1: The turbine, well they some some people in the engineering
55:25
Speaker 1: community pronounced it turban. Oh, I know it's true. I
55:29
Speaker 1: only know this because I used to work probably radio,
55:31
Speaker 1: and I covered the nuclear industry and I would interview
55:33
Speaker 1: these engineering nuclear nerds and they would call them turbans
55:36
Speaker 1: and the actually and I'm doing it. I'm actually right
55:40
Speaker 1: now and I'm pro nerds. So I love nerds, and
55:44
Speaker 1: I'm saying that sort of that is not what I'm
55:48
Speaker 1: doing at all. Ben, I love nerds. I there are
55:52
Speaker 1: some Okay, you guys are really making me no, no,
55:57
Speaker 1: but here you go. So, yeah, if you have four
56:00
Speaker 1: of these, um, you know, let's call them, what do
56:04
Speaker 1: you call one thing in a propeller one part of
56:07
Speaker 1: a propelled blades blade, I am not doing Yeah. So
56:13
Speaker 1: if you have like, um, four of them, right, so
56:15
Speaker 1: if one of them is out of commission, he got three,
56:21
Speaker 1: that's going to be a very unstable turban. Right, I mean,
56:26
Speaker 1: so three sheets to the wind anyway, so there's more
56:28
Speaker 1: um it actually uh carries on in literary history um
56:33
Speaker 1: in a novel called The Fisher's Daughter by a writer
56:36
Speaker 1: named Katherine Ward. And here's another quote from this phrases
56:40
Speaker 1: dot Org article. From this work, Wolf replenished his glass
56:44
Speaker 1: at the request of Mr Blust, who, instead of being
56:47
Speaker 1: one sheet in the wind, was likely to get to
56:50
Speaker 1: three before he took his departure. Right, that makes sense. Beautiful,
56:56
Speaker 1: so really beautiful. Express it is a beautiful question. At
56:58
Speaker 1: this point, we're still three sheets in the wind. And
57:01
Speaker 1: then we have the modern three sheets to the wind
57:04
Speaker 1: that comes in a book called The Journal of Reverend
57:07
Speaker 1: Francis Asbury that talks about this gentleman's travels through Kentucky
57:12
Speaker 1: through Kentucky in the United States. But yet this is
57:14
Speaker 1: an Englishman and the writer um also English. And this
57:18
Speaker 1: is the line from this work. The tavern keepers were
57:22
Speaker 1: kind and polite, as Southern folks should be, and as
57:25
Speaker 1: Southern folks ought not to be. They were sometimes two
57:28
Speaker 1: sheets in the wind. Oh that liquid fire. Not to
57:36
Speaker 1: cryp too hard from the incredible phrases dot org article,
57:40
Speaker 1: But it goes on to talk about how Robert Louis
57:42
Speaker 1: Stevenson um really popularized this phrase for a wider audience,
57:47
Speaker 1: because obviously Treasure Island was like a blockbuster of a novel,
57:50
Speaker 1: gave us all kinds of pirate parlance, right like shivermy
57:53
Speaker 1: timbers and talking about searching for treasure. You got your
57:56
Speaker 1: ex that marks the spot. The image of a pirate
57:59
Speaker 1: with a peg leg and a parrot, you know that
58:02
Speaker 1: whole all that image, all of that, all that imagery
58:05
Speaker 1: comes from from Robert Louis Stevenson. And the quote that
58:08
Speaker 1: he uses with this phrase, uh, goes back to the
58:11
Speaker 1: old way, which is maybe you think we are all
58:14
Speaker 1: a sheet in the wind's eye, but I tell you
58:16
Speaker 1: I was sober, and there's a lot of great pirate
58:21
Speaker 1: slang in Treasure Island. I think there are also some
58:24
Speaker 1: arguments about how much of that was Stevenson going this
58:28
Speaker 1: is what I think of pirate will sound like, and
58:31
Speaker 1: how much of it was actual pirate speech. And you
58:34
Speaker 1: know what, we could do a great piece on genuine
58:37
Speaker 1: pirate speech, because a lot of these guys tended to
58:40
Speaker 1: be polyglots, you know, they met so many other people.
58:44
Speaker 1: But before we continue, Casey could we have a drumroll, please,
58:50
Speaker 1: did null save the day? Was this a phrase that
58:53
Speaker 1: you were unaware of origin? Story wise? Yes, Casey on
58:58
Speaker 1: the case I did it. Who just kidding, guys, just kidding.
59:08
Speaker 1: We all did it. Everyone brought amazing stuff to the table.
59:11
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Rowan, Nubi of Pitches podcast fame.
59:15
Speaker 1: Check it out. I think it's on SoundCloud now but
59:17
Speaker 1: soon if on iTunes and all the places you find
59:20
Speaker 1: podcast past at Pitches podcast. Not for the kiddos, it's
59:25
Speaker 1: uh it it gets, it gets pretty b blue at times.
59:28
Speaker 1: It gets a little blue. Little well, if you want
59:32
Speaker 1: your kids to have an accelerated learning course in the
59:37
Speaker 1: ways off, yeah, it's not that bad. You guys, well,
59:43
Speaker 1: if you like the cut of ridiculous histories, Jim, we
59:48
Speaker 1: imagine that you uh, you will go bananas. We didn't
59:53
Speaker 1: look at what that means, but you will go pitches.
59:56
Speaker 1: So check it out. As Neal said, don't hesitate to
59:59
Speaker 1: get the to the internet. In the meantime. Yeah, thanks
1:00:02
Speaker 1: so much for coming browin. It's really been a pleasure.
1:00:05
Speaker 1: It's been a pleasure here too. It's always a pleasure
1:00:07
Speaker 1: hanging out Rowan. Just like me and Ben, we we
1:00:09
Speaker 1: always say this. I think we say it so much
1:00:11
Speaker 1: people might think we're not telling the truth, but I
1:00:12
Speaker 1: swear we are in fact all friends outside of the
1:00:15
Speaker 1: show and we hang out. And it was nice to
1:00:17
Speaker 1: have you enter the shipping container. Uh the podcast sphere
1:00:21
Speaker 1: UM with with Ridiculous History. Yeah, I'd actually like to
1:00:25
Speaker 1: get a picture of you Rowan, if you're comfortable with
1:00:29
Speaker 1: that's been we could have faced to a name and
1:00:30
Speaker 1: we'll pop it up on my Instagram, which is at
1:00:33
Speaker 1: ben Bowling. Maybe we'll get our ridiculous history folks to
1:00:37
Speaker 1: retweet it or I'm sorry re gramm it is that
1:00:40
Speaker 1: a thing? Don't you have has a separate app for that.
1:00:42
Speaker 1: It's a really annoying most that it's a weird one.
1:00:45
Speaker 1: I'm really into the stories, um. I think it's a
1:00:47
Speaker 1: lot of fun. That's really the closest thing you can
1:00:48
Speaker 1: do to re gramming stuff. Put them on those stories.
1:00:50
Speaker 1: You can check me out at Embryonic Insider. You can
1:00:53
Speaker 1: check rowing out at Pitches podcast. On the instagram, um,
1:00:57
Speaker 1: you can check out Ridiculous History at Ridiculous History UM. Also,
1:01:00
Speaker 1: if you want to hang out with your fellow ridiculous historians,
1:01:03
Speaker 1: you can do that on our Facebook group, which is
1:01:04
Speaker 1: the Ridiculous Historians. You just have to name one of
1:01:07
Speaker 1: our names, or Casey's name, or you know, or make
1:01:10
Speaker 1: us laugh. Oh name dropping. That's another one we don't
1:01:14
Speaker 1: talk about. That's very true. That can probably figure out
1:01:16
Speaker 1: where that one goes big. Thanks to super producer Casey
1:01:19
Speaker 1: Pegram and Alex Williams, who composed our theme. Yes, Thanks
1:01:22
Speaker 1: as always to our research associate team. Thanks very much
1:01:28
Speaker 1: to you guys out there listening in podcast land. This
1:01:32
Speaker 1: episode is over, but the story of strange phrases continues.
1:01:36
Speaker 1: When you are reaching out to us, let us know
1:01:40
Speaker 1: what what phrase always sounded very strange to you, or
1:01:44
Speaker 1: the origin story of something, and let us know if
1:01:46
Speaker 1: you want to see idiots on idioms or idiomatic for
1:01:50
Speaker 1: the people um rearing its head once again, idiom. There
1:01:54
Speaker 1: you go in the Ridiculous his story in a sphere,
1:01:57
Speaker 1: There we go. We'll see you next time, folks. Sick
1:02:00
Speaker 1: four