Latest / Smart Business Growth with Nicky Miklós / Empowering Voices: Breaking Barriers and Cultivating Emotional Resilience with Cindy Kennedy

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Empowering Voices: Breaking Barriers and Cultivating Emotional Resilience with Cindy Kennedy · Smart Business Growth with Nicky Miklós

• 0:04
  Nicky: Welcome to Thrive in Business Together with Nicki and Ness.
• 0:11
  Ness: We would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of country, the Yagura and Wurundjeri people of Brisbane and Melbourne respectively, where Nikki and I both work and live.
• 0:21
  Ness: So this is a little bit of an exciting podcast episode because we have a return guest Now.
• 0:32
  Ness: The wonderful Cindy Kennedy joined us in episode 22 and we loved that conversation so much that we couldn't resist inviting her back for a part two of this wonderful chat, where we go deeper into exploring, as women in business, what is really holding us back from being the voice, from reaching out and being visible, from being our best selves.
• 0:54
  Ness: So just a reminder for those who may not have heard part one but really want to after listening to this Cindy Kennedy is a certified performance coach.
• 1:03
  Ness: She's a master life coach and she is a leading voice in the areas of presence, influence and aligned well-being for women and emerging leaders.
• 1:11
  Ness: She's created the Rise to Shine program, which is a life and leadership academy for professional women to become seen and heard as leaders within their communities and organisations.
• 1:21
  Ness: And she just has a beautiful way of speaking and a lovely energy and the most amazing things to say.
• 1:28
  Ness: I'm not going to hold us up any longer, let's jump straight into it.
• 1:32
  Ness: So, cindy, let's get straight into it, and I'd love to pick off with perhaps answering the question why is it important for us to speak up?
• 1:42
  Cindy: I love this question.
• 1:43
  Cindy: Thanks for asking it.
• 1:45
  Cindy: Let's get really clear on what our voice is.
• 1:48
  Cindy: Our voice is the vocal expression of our heart's desires and our brilliant, unique thinking.
• 1:59
  Cindy: That's what it is.
• 2:01
  Cindy: That's even where our voice is actually situated between our heart and our mind and our brain.
• 2:07
  Cindy: So we need to be able to hear, often, our own thinking, our own wisdom and our own stories.
• 2:17
  Cindy: That's absolutely crucial for us to re-inspire ourselves, for us to even understand the stories that we're telling and are they serving us.
• 2:31
  Cindy: That's a big big thing for me is understanding our own wisdom and getting out of our head and hearing the stories we're sharing.
• 2:39
  Ness: I resonate with that so much, and this week I had a conversation with a leader who was feeding a whole lot of negativity around imposter syndrome and all the beliefs and stories that come with that, that sense of I don't deserve to be here, I don't deserve a seat at the table.
• 2:59
  Ness: My opinion doesn't.
• 3:00
  Ness: It was really, really sad when we pulled it out and wrote it down and, of course, replaced it with much more empowering beliefs and a different story that was so much truer than what this old, crappy, horrible story was.
• 3:15
  Ness: And one of the things that she said in her feedback was that it actually shocked her how horrible her internal voice was because she had never gone through the process of actually getting it out of her head and writing it down and seeing it for what it is.
• 3:33
  Ness: And when I work with people as a coach and we do an activity like that, I can see it in them, I can hear it in the tone of their voice.
• 3:40
  Ness: It's almost heartbreaking, because nobody would speak to somebody that they love in that way.
• 3:46
  Ness: They would not say those things to their child, to their partner, to their best friend.
• 3:52
  Ness: And yet we say it to ourselves and we don't even filter it, we don't recognise it, we don't stop and question it, we don't challenge the thinking, we don't shift the thinking, because it's this old story that's just gone over and over and over again.
• 4:07
  Ness: So I'm really resonating with what you said there about stepping back, listening to the heart and the head, because sometimes you know that connection between the two gets lost and we just listen to the head, especially the nasty voice in their heads.
• 4:22
  Ness: But the heart doesn't want us to be negative and horrible.
• 4:27
  Ness: The hot wants us to love right it does.
• 4:30
  Cindy: It wants us to love, it wants us to be seen.
• 4:32
  Cindy: It wants to connect 100 percent.
• 4:34
  Cindy: But that's really why, having elevated conversations with a really powerful circle of champions, having a coach or mentor that you trust and knows how to hold that space connected, like that example you gave with your client, we all need that.
• 4:51
  Cindy: We all need that.
• 4:53
  Cindy: We can't do this alone.
• 4:55
  Nicky: That we can't do this alone is, I think, coming up a lot.
• 4:58
  Nicky: And, interestingly, I also ran a workshop actually talking about imposter syndrome to a group of high performing salespeople.
• 5:06
  Nicky: It's such a common pattern and I mean it.
• 5:10
  Nicky: Does you know we can bring gender into this, or you know?
• 5:14
  Nicky: Do we see this more in women?
• 5:16
  Nicky: Is it across?
• 5:16
  Nicky: What do you think, cindy?
• 5:18
  Nicky: Is it?
• 5:18
  Nicky: It's not biased towards gender.
• 5:21
  Nicky: A man, woman, non-binary, everybody would experience imposter syndrome, and you know it's.
• 5:27
  Nicky: It's a humanness, isn't it?
• 5:29
  Nicky: It's a human level.
• 5:30
  Nicky: And the fact that we're not even aware of this, sometimes we're not even aware of the language until, like Ness said, someone points it out.
• 5:37
  Nicky: And I wonder, I'd love to know, cindy, how does this connect with that self trust piece Because you talk about?
• 5:44
  Nicky: You know, you mentioned having that community or the group or a coach that you can trust, and how does this align with self trust, which is connected with self worth and self love.
• 5:56
  Cindy: What is that piece?
• 5:57
  Cindy: Oh well, instantly, when we can bring our thinking out of us, whether through a culture or through an exercise, we can see what's in there we go, wow, like am I actually being a vehicle of trusting myself, of learning to trust myself?
• 6:15
  Cindy: It's OK to be on the learning journey.
• 6:17
  Ness: It doesn't always have to be like I trust myself 100%.
• 6:21
  Cindy: It's a journey and there's spaces that we trust ourselves more.
• 6:25
  Cindy: But we can see, like, how am I going on this journey right now, like am I giving myself much love?
• 6:29
  Cindy: And also, if we talk about the head and the heart, like, this is all my thinking, where's my heart here, where's my compassion here?
• 6:34
  Cindy: So we can get it out of ourselves this way.
• 6:37
  Cindy: So it's a super important part of building our trust up with ourselves.
• 6:41
  Cindy: What are we filling ourselves with?
• 6:43
  Cindy: What are we leading with?
• 6:45
  Cindy: Not to stir brain.
• 6:46
  Cindy: We've got to lead with our heart, the self-compassion and also compassion for others before we get into this crazy brain of ours that needs to actually support our heart and not be the first thing that leads us.
• 7:00
  Nicky: If we're talking about because today we're really talking about that using our voice, the power of our voice.
• 7:05
  Nicky: How do we close that, bridge that gap?
• 7:08
  Nicky: How do we bridge that gap when we're feeling this place of lack of self-trust or self-worth or self-love, and yet we need the courage to find our voice.
• 7:19
  Nicky: We need the courage to allow our heart to lead and take over our head, where our head will most often take over our heart.
• 7:28
  Nicky: How do we do that, cindy?
• 7:30
  Nicky: Okay.
• 7:32
  Cindy: I'm not going to say I'm the guru of all answers.
• 7:34
  Cindy: Here's my answer to you today.
• 7:37
  Nicky: Solve all of life problems in 20 minutes.
• 7:40
  Nicky: Please Drum roll.
• 7:42
  Cindy: Ready, drum roll.
• 7:43
  Cindy: The bridge is resurrecting our own courageous stories.
• 7:50
  Cindy: So when we're in that loop, we're not asking ourselves powerful questions, we're just going in a loop of old story, old story, old story.
• 7:57
  Cindy: That's very familiar to us.
• 7:59
  Cindy: It's uncomfortable, but it's a very familiar discomfort.
• 8:02
  Cindy: But when we stop and ask ourselves like, when have I been confident, when have I trusted myself, when have I I know for a fact, every single human being will find a story.
• 8:16
  Cindy: And that is when the past can serve us.
• 8:20
  Cindy: If we're consciously asking that from a very compassionate, loving place of being curious, and that's when we start to go oh my gosh, I remember when I did that.
• 8:30
  Cindy: Or oh, yeah, and so we don't need to always borrow it from somebody else, we can actually fortify ourselves and regain some trust in ourselves from the courageous lives that we have all been living and we've been forgetting.
• 8:45
  Cindy: So that's where we go Resurrect our powerful stories.
• 8:49
  Ness: That's such great advice.
• 8:50
  Ness: I know that what I see is a pattern sometimes, when it could be a business owner who's starting something new.
• 8:58
  Ness: Maybe it's a new phase of business, maybe you're taking on a team, maybe there's something going on there that you haven't done before.
• 9:05
  Ness: It could be the first time you're doing something.
• 9:07
  Ness: Or out there in the corporate world I see it with leaders who get a new role and all of a sudden they're back day one of school and what we tend to believe like we should all over ourselves around, we should be at this level day one that we left that last position or that last thing we knew really, really well that we did for 10 years and I left that.
• 9:32
  Ness: And then I have an expectation.
• 9:34
  Ness: The standard that I have said is the standard that I was on my last day of that experience compared to where I am on day one of my new experience.
• 9:43
  Ness: And we don't cut ourselves slack.
• 9:45
  Ness: We have really.
• 9:46
  Ness: I mean, there's something about having a high standard, but this is almost an impossible standard because we forget to get today, whatever the end of that part of our experience.
• 9:58
  Ness: We had to start not knowing.
• 10:00
  Ness: We had to start having a conversation.
• 10:03
  Ness: Perhaps that was really hard, or we had to start learning a new skill or just anything.
• 10:09
  Ness: But our brain forgets that and the only remembers the most recent experience, which is I was good at that and now I'm suck at it.
• 10:19
  Cindy: Really yeah.
• 10:21
  Cindy: And also and almost unwillingness to let people see our messy journey Like the fact that we don't have all the answers all the time and often when we feel like we're fumbling, that's we're actually right in the middle of our success.
• 10:37
  Cindy: But it doesn't feel that way now because we're learning, we're new.
• 10:40
  Cindy: So letting people in on the journey because that's what people connect with you, that's when, even as a leader, use that exempliness as a leader.
• 10:48
  Cindy: If you imagine someone starting that role by really fortifying themselves from their own stories and their own success of their last role they hadn't, that's what got them here but also letting their team know hey, listen, I'm so excited about this.
• 11:01
  Cindy: I know it's going to be powerful and I'm like really honored and privileged to lead you or to be in this role.
• 11:06
  Cindy: Also, I'm new and so there are going to be things that I'm going to need some help and support and I'm going to make some fumbles.
• 11:14
  Cindy: Please help show me the way, help guide me.
• 11:18
  Cindy: Imagine what a team would do to be able to lean in and feel like, wow, like there's a leader that's actually willing to have our input, willing to show that they don't know it all.
• 11:32
  Ness: It's incredibly powerful, absolutely.
• 11:35
  Ness: And I think I say the same when it comes to having a difficult conversation with someone.
• 11:40
  Ness: We think we've got to get it right.
• 11:41
  Ness: We think that we need to, especially if we're in a leadership role or it's our business and we've got to set a boundary or talk about something that's uncomfortable because the team members done something that goes against what we want in the business.
• 11:55
  Ness: It's okay for us to say I feel really awkward and uncomfortable and I'm about to have this conversation, I'm probably going to get it wrong and I'm going to say stuff that I'm going to think about it midnight tonight and wish I had to set it differently.
• 12:06
  Ness: But it has to be said and I want to do it with the most support and I want to be there for you and I want to help you to learn and to be better.
• 12:16
  Ness: But I'm probably not going to come across like that.
• 12:19
  Ness: So can you bear with me while we go through this together?
• 12:23
  Ness: Imagine, from my perspective, I think, another human being being that vulnerable and open with me because they care, because they care about the outcome and because they're putting themselves into a position where they might not feel comfortable, but they know they've got to do it because it's going to be to the betterment of both them and the team and myself.
• 12:47
  Ness: I don't know that you're going to come across very many people that would give you pushback and be aggressive around that, and yet we don't do it, do we?
• 12:56
  Ness: We get fearful and scared about I don't know how to do it.
• 12:59
  Ness: I haven't got it all right.
• 13:01
  Ness: I need to be able to look like I know what I'm doing.
• 13:04
  Ness: I'm going to let that go, don't we?
• 13:06
  Cindy: Absolutely, and I think part of it, too, is going back to what is our intention for speaking.
• 13:11
  Cindy: What is our intention for speaking and having that conversation before you even walk in the room?
• 13:17
  Cindy: What is the intention for anything you're going to say?
• 13:20
  Cindy: Is it to try to influence someone?
• 13:22
  Cindy: Are you speaking because it's about connecting?
• 13:25
  Cindy: Are you speaking because it's about informing or inspiring?
• 13:28
  Cindy: That's something we need to get clear, because then, when you walk in, you hold that energy and that presence and you don't leave that room until you know that that is felt and you've just maintained it, because that will help inform the language that you use as well, because someone can use those same words, ness, but also be so often their energy that suddenly what you're saying is someone's going to feel very.
• 13:55
  Cindy: They're not going to really feel clear or feel like they.
• 13:58
  Cindy: Maybe they have to protect them and they can actually share their truth or how uncomfortable they feel, ask what they need.
• 14:05
  Cindy: So, 100% powerful words, but let's start back with what's our intention for speaking.
• 14:13
  Nicky: I think that's really important to consider in this communication piece and I also think when you have somebody that's being vulnerable with you, so whether it's in a leadership role we had the two examples I'm doing this role let's do this together.
• 14:27
  Nicky: Maybe there's an awkward conversation or tough conversation when we're not perfect as leaders.
• 14:33
  Nicky: It gives people around us permission to not have to be perfect, and I think this is such an important aspect when we're authentic and that word can be overused, but authentic in its truest sense of being okay with who we are not having, not feeling like we have to mask, you know, the loud energy bringing it down the quiet person having to feel like they need to be louder, whatever, that is for our unique sense, and I think this is for our unique selves actually finding this place of inner certainty of who we are.
• 15:06
  Nicky: And bringing that uniqueness also gives permission for other people to do the same.
• 15:11
  Nicky: And I have a really cool example.
• 15:13
  Nicky: I don't know, do you guys know Jonathan Van Ness, jvn from Queer Eye?
• 15:18
  Nicky: Okay, so some listeners may or may not.
• 15:20
  Nicky: It's the modern day version.
• 15:22
  Nicky: It used to be Queer Eye for the straight guy back in the day.
• 15:25
  Nicky: Now, and JVN go Google him Jonathan Van Ness.
• 15:28
  Nicky: He is fabulous.
• 15:30
  Nicky: I love him.
• 15:32
  Nicky: He is so out there.
• 15:33
  Nicky: He is just living his most authentic life.
• 15:38
  Nicky: He is just he's out there.
• 15:40
  Nicky: For some people, you know, that's how some people would see him, and I always think about him.
• 15:44
  Nicky: I know it's digressing a little bit, but I think about him because what I love about him the most is that he gives people permission around him to be whoever the heck they want to be, to be their true selves.
• 15:56
  Nicky: And we have an opportunity to do this as leaders, as human beings, as partners, as parents, as sisters, you know, whatever role it is, the more we can embrace vulnerability, being a bit eccentric or not, or whatever, we are allowing the space for people to do the same, and I think that's a really important message in this conversation, as well as Googling JVN.
• 16:29
  Cindy: Definitely I'm a.
• 16:30
  Cindy: Queer Eye for the straight guy, 100%.
• 16:34
  Cindy: And you know, I really believe that we, most of us really believe that we really do.
• 16:41
  Cindy: But it's always that like what's that?
• 16:43
  Cindy: What's that little moment where you just want to, but you kind of go right and so it really is like, just sometimes it's actually practicing it.
• 16:53
  Cindy: Maybe this is the big thing that's coming up right now is, you know, allow ourselves to practice trying to make a even, I'm going to say even letting people know a little bit more about yourself.
• 17:04
  Cindy: Practice even the discomfort of people kind of laughing at you.
• 17:08
  Cindy: I really mean it, like purposely go out and ask something ridiculous just to see what people think.
• 17:15
  Cindy: Because the biggest fear is, like we said before, it's about being rejected or being judged.
• 17:19
  Cindy: But you know what?
• 17:20
  Cindy: Those are just emotions.
• 17:22
  Cindy: We've all been rejected before, we've all been judged before and we've survived.
• 17:27
  Cindy: Yeah, if we can fortify our willingness to sit with an emotion and let it move through us, we've got to shake it off, of course, but you realize, actually I'm okay, I'm okay.
• 17:41
  Cindy: So I think that's part of it, because, 100%, anytime we see someone be goofy or daggy or go, oh my God, I totally screwed up the ability to laugh at ourselves.
• 17:54
  Cindy: One of my favorite quotes is from Shirley McClain.
• 17:57
  Cindy: She's just a classic, but she's like life is too serious to take seriously and we just honestly take ourselves so damn seriously.
• 18:10
  Cindy: And yes, life's important and I guess the work that we love doing and supporting our clients and our people and our families and strangers in the world, that's super important.
• 18:21
  Cindy: But I know when I get too serious I don't serve to my highest level.
• 18:25
  Cindy: I don't Do you Do either of you.
• 18:28
  Nicky: No, no, because also that's head, that is being in our head and that is not where we serve best from it.
• 18:38
  Nicky: Yeah, that's not where we thrive, really, even though we kind of trick ourselves into thinking that's the space to come from.
• 18:45
  Nicky: That's a good point, absolutely, absolutely.
• 18:49
  Nicky: Are you stuck in the busy trap or on Juggle Street, being all things to all people, despite having a team?
• 18:56
  Nicky: Or perhaps your business is feeling chaotic?
• 18:58
  Nicky: Do the mini business health check to get 10 strategies in under 10 minutes so you can get time freedom back, experience peak performance and finally leverage smart growth in your business.
• 19:10
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• 19:14
  Nicky: Forward slash health check and, if you're ready for us to help in a more hands on way, email us at hello at businesstogethercomau and we'll set up a time to chat.
• 19:25
  Ness: I was listening recently to Kemi Neckvenpill.
• 19:28
  Ness: I don't know if you've heard of her.
• 19:29
  Ness: She wrote the book called Power and she did a series on Audible where she was interviewing oh, coaching, so coaching sessions.
• 19:37
  Ness: And one of them was with Abby Chatfield and Abby is highly successful businesswoman in her own right following her exposure on reality TV shows like the Bachelor and so on.
• 19:51
  Ness: And there was a moment in the session where Kemi asked her to take some deep breaths and then she asked her three questions.
• 19:59
  Ness: The first one was how does your head feel right now?
• 20:03
  Ness: Well, what does your head feel right now?
• 20:05
  Ness: And then another two breaths and it was what does your heart feel right now?
• 20:09
  Ness: And after another two breaths, it was what does your gut feel right now?
• 20:13
  Ness: And it was so powerful.
• 20:14
  Ness: It happens in you know, a 30 second kind of timeframe, maybe a minute, but the first response that came from each of those head, heart and gut were all completely different.
• 20:26
  Ness: Yeah, and you know, like I can't remember specifically what the head one was, it might have been exhausted or something, but the heart felt lonely and they were very different words and meanings and emotions.
• 20:39
  Ness: And it was so powerful and it reminded me of the value of having someone hold your space for you to allow you the opportunity to do that.
• 20:50
  Ness: But also we can do that for ourselves.
• 20:52
  Ness: We can quieten down the noise around us, we can take ourselves maybe out into nature or just, you know, in a quiet space in our own home and actually just ask those questions of ourselves, Take the deep breaths to get really present.
• 21:07
  Ness: And what I think holds us back from doing that is a fear of what we might uncover.
• 21:13
  Ness: And if we uncover something scary, what does that mean about me?
• 21:19
  Ness: And yet I truly believe that that knowledge of how we really are and what we're feeling is really powerful to be able to be a place to create change from.
• 21:31
  Ness: So we're talking about working with particularly business women who are nearing or at burnout because they just go, go, go, go, go, go go, and they don't take this space and they don't have five minutes to breathe and they're just.
• 21:43
  Ness: They're busy at work and they're busy at home and I just want to hug them sometimes and just say just stop, it's okay.
• 21:50
  Ness: Yeah, so in your experience, Cindy, what do you believe is the fear that we have around, the answer that might be uncovered that we're perhaps not ready for?
• 22:03
  Cindy: I think it's a fear of being alone.
• 22:05
  Cindy: I think it's a fear of who we might need to say goodbye to or who might say goodbye to us.
• 22:12
  Cindy: And again, whether you call that rejection or judgment, there's a real fear of standing on our own.
• 22:17
  Cindy: And I don't mean as independent women or that I can't.
• 22:21
  Cindy: I feel like Tom Cruise now.
• 22:23
  Cindy: You can't handle the truth, we can't handle it.
• 22:26
  Cindy: You know what do I do with it?
• 22:29
  Cindy: But we don't necessarily sit with it to find out.
• 22:32
  Cindy: Right, we're already experienced what we think is going to happen and we don't actually go into it to even know.
• 22:41
  Ness: Right, and I think it's it's it comes back to knowledge is power, because whatever, generally speaking, whatever's happening to get us into that place where we become fearful, is actually the, the cycle we have to break in order to improve things, because nobody wants to be at that burnt out exhaustion, you know, feeling like you just pulled in 100 different directions and you're tired.
• 23:06
  Ness: No one wants to be there.
• 23:07
  Ness: Long term it's not sustainable.
• 23:08
  Ness: So we know, often intuitively, whether we listen to that voice or not, we know something has to change, and so we bury our head and just keep going at the pace, because that's what we know to do.
• 23:19
  Ness: That's how we've got to this success or not so far.
• 23:25
  Ness: So I guess what I really want our listeners to consider is if you're resonating with that sort of work, feels chaotic and you're stuck in the busy trap and you're on juggle street.
• 23:35
  Ness: If you're resonating with any of that, there is such power in stepping back, because I believe it's about that is self love, that is self care, really checking in, because you're right, cindy, maybe something has to change in our lives or in our business, or we might need to fire a client, no, or more, and so that's what we've got to listen into and feel that, no matter what, we will be okay because we've got this far in life.
• 24:05
  Ness: We've backed ourselves into the leadership role we're in or into the business we've created.
• 24:12
  Cindy: One of my sayings is that we need to.
• 24:15
  Cindy: I might have said this before, but I can't remember.
• 24:17
  Cindy: But I talk about being deliciously selfish and what that means is that we need to elevate ourselves in order to elevate others, and too many of us as you're talking about the burnout or that utter exhaustion we operate the other way around, like I've got to get this done, I've got to get this done, I've got to get this done, but we are literally like operating in a wrong planet.
• 24:45
  Cindy: We are forgetting how much we take that breath.
• 24:50
  Cindy: We ask ourselves those questions, how we come to what is still our work or responsibilities or deadlines from a very different space and we will make choices differently and our energy will be different and we will back ourselves differently because we've had this pause and often we think we need so much time.
• 25:14
  Cindy: Oh, my God, like if I could just have two months off, if I could have even two hours.
• 25:19
  Cindy: I don't even have 10 minutes.
• 25:21
  Cindy: Yes, well, do you have five?
• 25:22
  Cindy: Every person I know has five minutes and every one of us knows for a fact that we deem the most important.
• 25:33
  Cindy: We will always make time for.
• 25:37
  Nicky: Absolutely.
• 25:38
  Nicky: It's not that we don't have the time, even though it feels like it.
• 25:41
  Nicky: That's just another kind of trick that we're telling ourselves.
• 25:45
  Nicky: And I think the other thing to consider here, in this amazing conversation that's really, I'm sure, resonating with so many people, is that if we avoid things, they get bigger.
• 25:55
  Nicky: So if you're avoiding taking the time and that is a part of the self perpetuating problem, because then it's not that you don't have five minutes or two minutes, even we've talked about 60 seconds can make a difference it's not that you don't have the time, but recognize, if you're in the cycle of avoidance, therefore it's not the priority.
• 26:17
  Nicky: And if there's an avoidance you know, oftentimes the thing is sometimes it's not always as bad as you think it's going to be, and it might be painful at first, which is why I hesitated on that comment but I guarantee nine times out of 10, if not 10 out of 10 times, that was the thing that needed to happen for your next level of growth, whether it's personal growth.
• 26:40
  Nicky: Whether it's personal growth, that is the thing that will unlock that pain that you need to potentially feel, if it is an uncomfortable decision that needs to be made, or the thing that comes up as well in this is it could be saying goodbye to an older version of ourselves that is holding us back.
• 26:57
  Nicky: So it could be actually the tactical clients aren't right, or team member you have to let go of, or that inner version of you and you're stepping into your next level of growth.
• 27:07
  Nicky: There's so many things that this could be.
• 27:10
  Nicky: That's self perpetuating, this cycle of avoidance.
• 27:13
  Nicky: To take this space to be able to step in and hear and connect with the heart instead of the head, and I love what you said about elevate others, cindy, through elevating ourselves, and I often think about and talk about, particularly through covert times.
• 27:29
  Nicky: This struck me this when I had this feeling of such huge pain around not being able to do something about this big situation that we're in.
• 27:39
  Nicky: And I realize if I can heal myself, I'm healing others through healing myself.
• 27:43
  Nicky: If I can help myself, I'm helping others through helping myself, and as women particularly, but also as human beings, if we can focus on that.
• 27:54
  Nicky: That's that deliciously selfish pace it is.
• 27:57
  Nicky: If you need a little reframe to get kickstarted in this, then you actually are doing it for others by doing it for yourself.
• 28:06
  Cindy: Absolutely 100%.
• 28:07
  Cindy: Can I just share a great metaphor or analogy?
• 28:13
  Cindy: Because really what we're really talking about, I believe, is the power of being relaxed.
• 28:21
  Cindy: It terrifies us to be relaxed because we think we're not on it.
• 28:27
  Nicky: I'm going to miss something.
• 28:28
  Nicky: I'm going to drop a bowl if I'm relaxed Completely.
• 28:31
  Cindy: Here's what's so interesting.
• 28:32
  Cindy: When I used to be an outdoor educator, I remember one time, as a group, we were told we had to jump into this river.
• 28:40
  Cindy: Now this river had this big rock and the water was coming over it.
• 28:44
  Cindy: It was creating this huge section underneath.
• 28:47
  Cindy: I often think river runners like rafters and kayakers, I think they call it a hole.
• 28:54
  Cindy: What happens is, if you jump in and you fight the current, you will drown.
• 29:00
  Cindy: You will drown.
• 29:01
  Cindy: That's what happens.
• 29:02
  Cindy: We feel like everything's bombarding us.
• 29:04
  Cindy: We've got this coming at us and this coming at us.
• 29:06
  Cindy: You feel like you're underwater and you're drowning.
• 29:07
  Cindy: What do you do?
• 29:08
  Cindy: Your natural reaction is to fight it, to get going.
• 29:13
  Cindy: You're going to work hard on it.
• 29:14
  Cindy: I'm going to swim hard.
• 29:14
  Cindy: I'm going to kick harder to get out.
• 29:16
  Cindy: You will drown.
• 29:18
  Cindy: That's the burnout that you and your clients, like your clients, are experiencing.
• 29:21
  Cindy: The only way to get out of that is to relax.
• 29:26
  Cindy: You have to go against what feels so natural, very counterintuitive, but the only way out is you relax and that hole will pop you out, Wow.
• 29:38
  Ness: That sounds terrifying.
• 29:40
  Cindy: It was.
• 29:41
  Cindy: I came out because I almost drowned in a kayaking accident when they asked us to do this everyone else was like this is so fun and they're popping out and I'm doing everything I can to fortify my own courage to jump in there.
• 29:51
  Cindy: It was just terrifying because maybe even like a lot of your clients, not only have you maybe experienced a burnout or burnout now, they might have done it in the past.
• 30:01
  Cindy: Terrified, that's what was me going back in.
• 30:05
  Cindy: I'm like, oh interesting, I did pop out, but then I went to the side and I'm bald.
• 30:11
  Cindy: I had to emotionally get that through my system.
• 30:15
  Cindy: That is the truth.
• 30:16
  Cindy: Power, wisdom, love, compassion, a way through that you don't know now comes from taking that first breath, asking those beautiful questions that can be asked, relaxation, that's where the real power is.
• 30:35
  Ness: Wow, so, so powerful, and I truly hope that if you're listening to this and you're resonating, please take action.
• 30:44
  Ness: That's a really good way, I think, to bring it around Cindy to what would be the best first step.
• 30:51
  Ness: So, if we want to break this cycle that we've been talking about getting to the point of exhaustion or you know, just this fear-based around what, what could, what am I going to find out what's?
• 31:03
  Ness: What's the first step that someone needs to make that they could do Take action on, maybe within the next 24 hours, to be able to break that cycle and find that, find a way to relax, find a way to be deliciously selfish, find a way to just start to get themselves out of this situation.
• 31:25
  Cindy: It's not the think anymore, it's.
• 31:27
  Cindy: It's going to be so similar to last time.
• 31:28
  Cindy: If you were just, you may be used the word deliciously selfish.
• 31:32
  Cindy: Let's think of the first word delicious.
• 31:34
  Cindy: One thing.
• 31:36
  Cindy: Who'd feel delicious?
• 31:38
  Cindy: Would it be your favorite cup of tea in a beautiful, beautiful little go buy it for yourself.
• 31:50
  Cindy: If you don't have a beautiful teapot, you know I'll be so delicious to talk to one of my dear friends.
• 31:55
  Cindy: I miss her, I miss him, I miss.
• 31:57
  Cindy: Just call them and if you can't connect, send them a beautiful voicemail.
• 32:02
  Cindy: Hear yourself, speak and your heart.
• 32:04
  Cindy: Reach out to them.
• 32:05
  Cindy: Whatever feels delicious right now, do that.
• 32:12
  Ness: Do that and I love that.
• 32:14
  Ness: In fact, I am going to work on that because, as you were saying it, what's delicious?
• 32:19
  Ness: I'm just so many things that are delicious and I'm quite excited to find what that is for me in the next 24 hours.
• 32:26
  Ness: So, thank you so much, thank you, thank you.
• 32:28
  Ness: I know that we have this is your second time on our show.
• 32:33
  Ness: Thank you so much.
• 32:34
  Ness: We have loved our conversations with you, but if somebody's listening to this for the first time, we would love to be able to Let them know how to enter your world and find out more of your wisdom.
• 32:46
  Ness: So what's the best way for them to find out about you, cindy?
• 32:49
  Cindy: Two ways come and please, please, connect with me on LinkedIn.
• 32:53
  Cindy: That would be brilliant, cindy.
• 32:55
  Cindy: My initial M for Mojo.
• 32:57
  Cindy: Like I said, mojo, unless you're magnificent, kennedy, my new website depends on when the siren gets Cindy and Kennedy comm.
• 33:07
  Cindy: So Is it and you can connect into my world.
• 33:10
  Cindy: That would be wonderful.
• 33:12
  Ness: Well, I highly recommend it because we are very grateful to be in your world, cindy, and Grateful for your time again today.
• 33:19
  Ness: So thank you so so much and, listeners, we trust it.
• 33:23
  Ness: You've got some great benefit from today's conversation.
• 33:25
  Ness: Go on and have a marvellously delicious day.
• 33:29
  Ness: Nick, did you want to say yes, I'm gonna put an extra?
• 33:32
  Nicky: I'm gonna put an extra challenge out there.
• 33:34
  Nicky: Send us a message on LinkedIn.
• 33:36
  Nicky: Let us know what did you do?
• 33:39
  Nicky: That was delicious, deliciously selfish.
• 33:42
  Nicky: We would love to know what that is for you, and that's just an extra little bit of accountability around that for you as well.
• 33:48
  Nicky: We're in your corner, well even take a picture.
• 33:51
  Cindy: Can I just Take a picture of you doing something and just put down hashtag?
• 33:58
  Cindy: Deliciously selfish.
• 34:00
  Nicky: I love that and we might even do that ourselves, and when this is, let's put that challenge out to ourselves as well and and share that with the world.
• 34:08
  Nicky: I love it, cindy, thank you, I love everything you represent.
• 34:11
  Cindy: Thank you for letting me.
• 34:12
  Cindy: This has been deliciously selfish for me, yeah.
• 34:18
  Nicky: And talk about this now and, jules, we like.
• 34:20
  Nicky: What have you been doing, is that?
• 34:22
  Ness: deliciously selfish.
• 34:23
  Ness: Yes, it is Fabulous.
• 34:25
  Ness: Well, enjoy your deliciously selfish day and time, and we will talk to you next week.
• 34:32
  Nicky: Bye.
• 34:33
  Nicky: Thanks for listening to today's app.
• 34:34
  Nicky: If you loved what you heard, find us on LinkedIn and let us know what you enjoyed.
• 34:39
  Nicky: Also, don't forget to rate and review and, of course, share this episode with your biz besties.
• 34:45
  Nicky: Ness and I are obsessed with helping you break through your business and life barriers To get you to your next frontier of growth.
• 34:54
  Nicky: We bring two business minds and two perspectives into your business.
• 34:59
  Nicky: As the magician, I help connect the dots, see the possibilities and the hidden potential, and as the architect, ness turns those possibilities into practice, implementing plans and frameworks.
• 35:11
  Nicky: Because, let's face it, every vision needs a practical pathway to success.
• 35:16
  Nicky: We offer business health checks, taking you from chaos to clarity in just 30 days.
• 35:22
  Nicky: Are you curious to find out more?
• 35:24
  Nicky: Send us an email or go old school and give us a call.
• 35:28
  Nicky: All our details are in the show notes and on our website.
• 35:31
  Nicky: Until next time, happy listening and here's to thriving in business and life.