Latest / Only Fee-Only / #164 - Why Real Estate Agents Need Financial Planning | Cody Hawkins, PeaceLink

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#164 - Why Real Estate Agents Need Financial Planning | Cody Hawkins, PeaceLink · Only Fee-Only

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: How's it going everyone?
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to the OnlyFe Only podcast.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: And as always, thanks for being here.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: Today we are joined by Cody Hawkins, lead planner at Peace Link Financial Planning in Virginia Beach.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: Peace Link specializes in helping top producing real estate agents navigate the unique financial challenges that come with building a successful business.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: In this episode, Cody shares why the firm chose to focus on real estate professionals, the biggest financial mistakes PC's agents make, and how they help clients create more stability with cash flow, taxes, and long-term planning.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: We also talk about his path into financial planning and what it's been like helping grow PeaceLink.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: Hope you enjoyed this conversation.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: Without further ado, here is Cody Hawkins on the OnlyFee Only Podcast.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, how's it going, everyone?
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to another episode of the Only Fee Only podcast.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Peter Travolo.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm joined here by my co-host, Brock Buckles.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: And today we're very excited to have Cody Hawkins on from Peace Link Financial Planning.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Really excited to have him on.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: We've had the privilege of being able to work with him and some other members of his team.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: So really excited to have him on and have him share his story.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, Cody, welcome to the podcast.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, excited to be on.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate it.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I know you shared something personal with us right before coming on uh if you want to share with everybody else, because uh this will probably come out after the date, obviously.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: I I just shared my wife is 39 weeks pregnant.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um so when this comes out, I'll be in the thick of it, I'm sure.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I have no idea what to expect.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's our first.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um we had a scare that we were thinking the baby's gonna come even earlier, and I'm like, uh the business is not planned for this, but I think probably come closer to early March.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, best of luck to you, brother.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: I I I know that uh you you'll uh you'll be a great dad, and I'm sure that you'll uh you'll take it as it comes.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: Probably some sleepless night, sleepless nights on their way, but you'll you'll be good.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Sleep when I'm dead.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's what people tell me.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: There we go.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: So where are you based out of?
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um and what firm are you with?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I'm with Peace Link Financial Planning.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we're in the Hampton Roads area or the Virginia Beach, the only coastline in Virginia.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, I'm not like one of our surfer bros here, but uh the winter's terrible here in Hampton Roads, but the summer's awesome.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: There you go.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: So um how did you get into financial planning?
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, was it an interest from a young age or you know, what was your what's your story there?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up in like a really small country town, like big county, one high school, huge landmass, but you know, everyone was like, you know, I my grandparents owned a big farm.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: So personal fun, I don't think there was a financial planner in our whole like county or area.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then I went to college and um I wanted to work in government.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I at the time I was dating my now wife, and I told her I'm moving to DC.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, um, you're gonna be single if you move to DC.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I uh started thinking about other avenues of work and what that would look like for me.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: So my like degrees in in essentially public administration running government agencies is kind of like what they train us to do.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: And um I essentially just networked into this community.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sounds like you made the right choice, man.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds like you made the right choice.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of people got fired recently.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, for sure.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: So well, good man, so so like kind of got into this industry, so it was like not, it was kind of by happenstance, really.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like you kind of stumbled into it, it sounds like.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: I I'd met, you know, people, and you know, I worked for some nonprofit stuff in college and had met a lot of donors who just happen to be uh financial planners and and you know, the the quality of life and the flexibility.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that was very attractive, but I'm like, I don't know how to get into this.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Also, I'm from this like small town.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think anyone has any money.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, most people are calling their friends and family.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, that's not gonna work for me.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, I I can appreciate that.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: I the the high school that I graduated from, we graduated with like 92 people.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: It was a small country town.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: Most people like had farms or had a similar job.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I could totally I was calling them and they're like, What?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: What do you want?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't know.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: I want you to meet with me and I need five of your friends and family members' names.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, nope.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, all right, right on.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: So, no, that's cool.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: So, was Peace Link's first ever firm, or did you have any do anything before that?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: What did that look like?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: I worked for uh a big uh company right out of college.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: My the founder of the current firm actually kind of hired me to work there, and we mostly worked with you know schools and hospitals doing mostly I was just like a 403B rep.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was a great entry, but it wasn't really financial planning.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, for sure.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: So when did you first meet Leland and what did that look like?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I um knew I was gonna move to Virginia Beach.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I called everyone that I knew and I was like, hey, I want a job.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking about financial planning.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Connect me to anyone.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I I get on a conversation with Leland, and this is uh the middle of COVID when it's happening.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: It was like kind of before you don't really know, like uh March 2020 is like when we were on the phone call with him.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, Man, I'd love to hire you.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: I just have no idea what the world's gonna look like in the next little bit.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, I talked to a few different people, but Leland was like, man, just listen to you talk on this phone.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to hire you.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he's uh he's a great guy too, man.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm sure the di what's the dynamic like between you two, I'm sure.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: We have an amazing friendship.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's kind of how it has always always been.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: Our wives are really good friends.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: We're ingrained in this community together.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: We go to church together, we just play pickleball together.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's just a lot of mutual uh everything connections here.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's really cool.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's really cool.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, how are you kind of like what is your job within the firm?
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: How do you kind of like work within Peace Link?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what does that look like for you on a day-to-day?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so backing up a little bit, I did uh when Leland launched and founded his firm, I was like, I gotta get out of here.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I knew I needed to do learn real financial planning.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I worked in a tower in our downtown Norfolk, which isn't that high, you know, maybe on the 13th floor, and um worked over with higher net worth individuals and kind of learned what financial planning really is.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um and the hope always was when Leland launched it, he sat me down at uh lunch and I was so angry with him.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: He was like, I'm leaving today, and this is it, and uh good luck.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um but a couple of years I'd love to work with you.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's been a slow process, and so I've been at PeaceLink for the last this is my second year now.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm mostly kind of the lead planner on staff.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: Leland's doing a ton of the business development.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: We also have like a bookkeeping and tax prep side of our business that is kind of blown up.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um so kind of day-to-day, you know, you wear all hats on a small business, you know.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing the operations.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: We've now hired some other people on our team, but uh most of the planning work um and and investment stuff I kind of handle.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you guys specifically serve realtors or what's the niche?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you know, probably when Leland on the first one of those podcasts, that was he hadn't figured out what his niche would be.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: And we've kind of dove headfirst into um top producing real estate agents.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: They've got unique needs, and essentially they're kings and queens of networking, right?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna give you lots of leads, they're all about referrals.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so you do excellent work for one.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you continue to get more and more.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: The the key is to find the right ones too, right?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because that could definitely be very much so, like we we know we have some friends that are kind of in that business.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: That can very much be like a feast or famine type industry.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: So unless you're in kind of the the upper echelon, like staying pretty consistent.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: And even even if you are, right?
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you have a listing that's you know several million dollars or whatever, but it takes three, four, or five months to to sell as to sell, and then you have this like influx of cash.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, what are some of the conversations like around that type of planning, man?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's that's different than like the nine to five W-2 salaried employee that you know what they have coming in every week.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it can be also fast money.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, most of the people we're talking to, this is first generation.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: They some of them have never worked a W-2 job and they just knew that like this was a job that they wanted.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: And and a lot of people, they treat it like a sales job.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the hard thing is, you know, the environment of how their brokerage structures them is they're their own business.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: They're just getting a 1099 from it.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so they have all the complexities of a small business owner, but like most people who start an entrepreneurship, I don't have a background in in business.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's not what they're good at.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: They're just really good at knowing the real estate market and making sales and getting in front of people.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and so it is hugely variable.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: We we use the phrase all the time like we got to be prepared for the real estate winter.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, which I use that in like we do a lot of seminars with them.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's a big avenue of how we get in front of them.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I had a guy the other day be like, Well, the winter's my best season.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, like, okay, you get the point, man.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's gonna be a season that's slow.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: It makes sense to me because I'm watching Game of Thrones again right now, so it's a perfect analogy.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: Winter is coming, bro.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: Winter is coming, man.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: No, I love that.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: So you kind of like that's kind of getting them prepared for that, like uh showing them, you know, hey, here's the value of a dollar.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: I know it feels like it's coming in really fast now, but it could slow down.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, are most people you're working with, are there kind of those ebbs and flows?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: Or I know that you said you work with kind of like the top producing real estate agents, or is it pretty consistent, or you kind of have to be like, hey, you need to pace yourself.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like when the going's good, we need to think about what we're doing with this money and be a little bit more structured.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of our conversations are around lifestyle creep.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we we say, like in our first meeting with people, we say, Leland and I are not beans and rice people.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: We want you to enjoy the fruits of your labor.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: And and you are allowed to increase your lifestyle.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: But because of the nature of your industry, we need to create some buffers.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so a lot of times that looks like treating it like a business, you know, a buffer in the business.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Most people are just like, come straight to them, and they're just, you know, using it, going into a personal checking account.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: The biggest thing for real estate professionals, and that's why we've kind of started a tax practice out of our business, is taxes are the number one enemy of a 1099 employee who doesn't think they're a 1099 employee.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so I mean, huge surprises, you know.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: How do we we talk about business structuring a ton?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many people who are making hundreds of thousands of dollars and have never heard the words S Corp election or or PL.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been huge for us to be able to speak in front of them and and help kind of even it out.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: Our goal is what we say to them is if we can turn you into feeling like a W-2, then you can increase your lifestyle just like if you got you know a 5% raise.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: But if we don't set those buffers in place and you accelerate too fast, you're gonna fall fat on your flight face.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: And there it's true that you know that kind of money you're relying on, and especially in the real estate industry, they love you know short-term squeezes with debt.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: And we're like, how do we how do we avoid this on the long term?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: And and it really is just slowing down to speed up.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: And there are plenty of established real estate professionals who are doing these things, but because it's so fast money, people can make$200,000 in their third year in the business, which is crazy.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: And spend$210.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it's true, man.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: People say I needed a$50,000 check at some point.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's all great until the tax man comes knocking on the door and and you're looking at your shoes and your belt and you've got designer on, but not much to say for it.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's it's a great point.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: And there is like, and maybe I'm talking out of turn a little bit here, but like I feel like there is kind of that culture.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like, whenever you look at like Netflix, right?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of the top shows are like those those real estate shows where people are like selling in Miami, selling in New York, selling in this like the kind of culture is like that fast-paced sales culture and like kind of the keeping up with the Joneses sometimes.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so it's it's good that you guys are encouraging, you know, people that are in the and it's not just it's not just real estate, but it's good that you guys are encouraging them, like treat it more like a business than like a sales job, because if you're treating it like a sales job, it doesn't matter what you're doing a day, you can always pay for everything you have going on with the next house and the house after that.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: So you it's good to slow down.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it is it's a unique um environment where that you are showing success before it happens in order to get in front of these people to sell multi-million dollar homes.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and maybe that's part of the the environment, but there's a a place when you can level up and and do those things strategically.
• 13:00
  unknown: Yeah.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: What are maybe some common misconceptions that you see a lot of people coming in to Peace Link, you know, maybe having, or they heard from their their other real estate friend on what to do with their taxes.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's so many miscon I could go on and on about misconceptions on on taxes.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Recently heard someone tell us that well, the the real thing is a lot of them have back taxes because they get they are not the first year they have a crush it, they've never even heard of making quarterly payments.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: And most people hear about making quarterly payments because they owe back taxes.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then they owe back taxes, but are trying to get ahead on the quarterly payments.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: So that's uh that's a huge flaw.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: People are like, I'll just pay at the end of the year, right?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: And especially at some of these higher income levels, huge baked-in penalties.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: You're just playing catch up a ton.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, a lot a lot of it also is, you know, in our environment, based on being fee only, that's why we can kind of crush working in this market because a lot of them want to invest only in real estate.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, a big misconception that we're always fighting with is like, hey, rental real estate and other things, they're the crock pot.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna have great, you know, uh future, but we've got all these short-term liquidity crises.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: How do we avoid that?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of people have massive balance sheets that we're working with, but day to day, don't experience that.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really what they're looking for.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: They're not looking for the massive balance sheet, they're looking for like, can I not be on a credit card?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Can I go on the trip that I want to and feel free to do that?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: So, and and when is it like uh have there been some really high performing like professionals that you know you guys have kind of gotten in there?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe they've like had the experience of you know, the back taxes or the they've they've gotten on the quarterly payment board, maybe before they even met you guys, but you've been able to get in there and be like, okay, but now let's set it up as you know, an LLC or an S-corp or whatever for this tax benefit.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then let's take it and you know, let's put some money aside for this, or you know, whatever you guys might want to do, to where they're like, man, I've always felt like I was a salesperson, and now I feel like I actually do have a business.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's a that's a common thing.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, a hundred percent.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, and it is just setting systems in place, you know.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it maybe it's like once a month you think about some of these things, and a lot of it is offloaded to us, but there's still day-to-day business things that you're gonna have to think about.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think hugely our clients would say they just feel so much more clarity around like, I know I need to make this make this many sales to live the life that I want to live.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: And the business kind of runs itself.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: We've kind of automated the taxes, we've automated how much stays in our operating expense account.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: And some of those things are just flowing on autopilot so that they know every time I get a$10,000 commission check, I'm keeping, I'm keeping five.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm you can it and then out that five, those are going to other goals.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's real estate investing, but then they can very clearly know out of every check what I get to blow.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Third rate is what we call it.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like a lot of uh, you know, real estate agents, they're obviously gonna love rentals and things like that.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you kind of maybe broaden their perspective on other investment options or not just to be you know all eggs in one basket?
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, the larger the portfolio, it does make some things a little easier.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of times they're coming to us being like, I just have no money.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, they they you want to invest like a core thing that we always talk about.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: Invest in what you know, right?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: And they know and they see awesome real estate deals.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of times they're not really calculating like what's the return on investment you're really getting here.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they just know like this is great, this is what I understand.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: And what we see a lot of times is people are getting burned from rental properties that are crushing them.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and if you've got multiple, it kind of makes it easier when the one is failing.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, they don't a lot of our clients were convincing them to get brokerage accounts for the first time.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Investing in that to be kind of a barbell strategy for their rental real estate so that they can experience the like, oh, this happened.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: I have some money to pay for this.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't like put me in a squeeze.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting, you know, because you talk to more people, some people make a killing in real estate, right?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: Even just selling private residences, a second home.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: But there's also a huge population that's getting hosed by it, or they bought the wrong time, or you know, maintenance or whatever might come in there.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, what are maybe some of those discussions that you're having?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what what we say to them is like, you're the expert on a lot of this, you know, like we're not we're gonna defer to you on when you should buy this property, but I'm gonna tell you the profitability of these decisions and aligning their decision with like, you know, for every client we meet with, we kind of create like a big why statement for them, like putting words into their own mouth.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: And they'll come up to us and be like, hey, I see this great opportunity.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: I have no money, I'm gonna leverage everything to get it.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then we we remind them, we're like, hey, um, what what is the goal with this money?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: And if it if that is, you're willing to make that sacrifice, then hey, let's go for it.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um But a lot of times, you know, you think about opportunities like flips.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: We've got a lot of people, you know, one-off flips or people who are doing it at larger scales.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: No one's ever been like flips are easy.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: And being able to fund those themselves, yeah, conversations like you know, self-directed IRAs, a lot of times people are not doing them anywhere close to properly.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's an avenue that we've had a ton of conversations with.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a lot of work, it's a lot of work, yes.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the amount of times that and and Pete, again, you know about this stuff too, because we've got some friends who are like the amount of times that you talk to somebody where they're like, Yeah, we're gonna have X amount of money in this flip, and then it's like three times that amount of money in the flip.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: And like, what does that mean?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't want to lose on this deal, now you have to charge way more.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: The profit margins are slimmer, and you're charging more than you originally planned to.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like you leveraged everything and you made a grand total of five thousand two hundred and eighty dollars.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know what I mean?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Or loss markets.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: That was something else, yeah.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Be a little strategic with the gamble.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I get it, man.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like we when you know that type of stuff, and that is what you know, it's hard to slow down because also the environment around you and everybody else that's in real estate, the people that you're talking to on a daily basis, that's what they're doing with their money.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: They're reinvesting in real estate.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's so different because when I think about long-term investing, it's a slow and steady process.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: You're making deliberate decisions about what we want our future.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're showing a house and they see that I can buy this thing and it's gonna go this weekend.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: That that's they've got to make a decision so fast.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's very emotional.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, which, you know, people have great eyes for this and it made a killing, but also the same amount of people have uh not been as success successful as they'd like to be.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's like stocks, right?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Most people should just be doing the index.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, even the professionals.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's true.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's true.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: So, what do um what what is the most common, like, where do you guys start?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like from a client experience, right?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like you sit down with someone for the first time, they walk in because they're a real estate professional in an incredibly well-fitting suit, right?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: We're sitting at a table just trying to paint a picture.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: What's that?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: They don't wear well-fitting suits here.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, even realtors are like t-shirts here.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I like that.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you know, they come in with their awesome t-shirt, they sit down.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, where does a conversation start?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because one thing I've noticed throughout having these conversations and doing a lot of these podcasts, some people are really starting with like, let's dig into the numbers, right?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: Some people are like, I would never do that, right?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to start with the numbers because that just feels like we're not touching the human element of it, right?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: So we start with a pain point, and then some people are like, just tell me kind of like what's on your mind.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me about you.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: So more of the first meeting is like, get to know you before I understand any of the financial problems that you're even having.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, what what what approach are you guys taking, Cody?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I feel like one, it's the people are coming in because it's a pain point, and I would say 80% of them, it's it's something along the lines with taxes in this industry because there's lots of flashy things uh that ideas are being spread around from other realtors and what other people are doing.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that that's a big pain point that we see them come in.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: But in our first meeting, I mean, obviously, we try to get a questionnaire out of them.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um they're very busy people, so sometimes we get the information we need.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: But the first meeting is exactly what you're saying.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's the human element.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: We want to understand them, see if it's a good fit for what we are.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: We're not um gonna be your your sexy financial advisor who's offering you this product that's gonna be through the moon, or you're gonna have zero uh taxes ever in retirement, you know, tax free retirement, but just like any time.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and it really is our first question.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and and it's enjoyable for Leela and I because we got in this industry because we're gonna have real conversations with people.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so we We say, like, hey, tell us about money growing up.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and that's our usually our first question.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, describing you know how they're experiencing money, and you know, even just a simple question like, say you you are feeling you know good about your finances.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: Describe to me what that looks like before we ever dive into any of their numbers.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we'll go through and that's kind of how we calculate our fee and our structure in that first meeting, but it's really high level.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um and there very few people come to us and are like, I'm really thinking about doing a Roth conversion strategy.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that's own this discovery meeting, you know?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, especially realtors.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they they want to know how they can get to to where their goals are, and uh, and a lot of it is from my understanding and and seeing it is the disconnect between the net worth and the cash flow to like experiencing this freedom and not having like this anxiety around money.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: And especially with realtors, a lot of it's tax anxiety, a lot of it's just cash flow anxiety.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Where is my next paycheck coming from?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um anxiety.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can see the lifestyle creep being the largest one, right?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, not only you know the bigger, nicer house and renovating it and then you know, showing off and flipping it, but then also you know, buying a new G-Wagon and it's a write-off, dude.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: Everything's long so it's 6,000 pounds, man.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's a it's a write-off, it's a bigger write-off.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then just buy three Airbnbs and you'll be set, you know.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I don't know.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: And our biggest you know, conversations is it's hard when you you're not going into it like thinking you're an entrepreneur.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: You've got a boss and it's a broker to start out unless you're starting on your own.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: And like business and personal are so intertwined that it makes financial planning very difficult early on without just being like, we've got to be purely administrative here to get clear ideas of what your personal life and what your business are.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've been raving about Monarch Money as an app that I don't know if you guys have heard about it.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: I use it.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: I use it personally, man.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I do.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, my wife and I have our budget meeting tomorrow.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it saved our uh in a lot of ways, saved our practice to be able to do really realistic goal setting and planning because some of it's intertwined, and we're like, once they get, you know, there's a lot of people who haven't got even got business accounts in our in real estate and been doing it for years.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: But now we've got business accounts and we're linking just personal things in monarch because that's what they want to know.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's my personal life?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: What's what are they actually spending?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: But it's so intertwined that it feels unclear, and it feels really unclear at tax day when it's like, I've been spending a lot of this and now I owe 25 grand.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, for sure, man.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: I thought me spending more would lower my tax bill.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: You do have to spend money to make money sometimes, but that's not always the case.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's not it's not always it's not always black and white, right?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's that's it's not how it works.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: So awesome, man.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, um, if there was a financial planner out there, man, that was like had was listening to the the episode and they were like, I think I want to get into this space.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what's one piece of advice that you would give them?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: Man, I I would say like getting into the industry.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, yep.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's so hard.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: I I had like a great work environment, my first one, but it wasn't the fit on like this the planning.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: I was just like being a sail honing my sales skills, really.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: The next job, it's not a great work environment, but um had awesome planning skills, learned how to do that really well.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say like you want to work for someone you trust.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you're trying to get into the industry, you know, network, meet around, like figure out what you want that to look like.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like I knew I didn't want to be around people who their main goal was making more money.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, how can I slide in this annuity to their already financial plan?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I wanted to work for someone I felt like I could wake up each day and be really proud of who I work for and and and what we're doing.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I feel like you just got to not settle for the the first job.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: And early on, you it's hard, even especially with AI now, and like the first job in this industry, this is so hard to get into it.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: But really, it's like I think about like when we're hiring people, it's like, do I trust you?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Do I do I want to be around you?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Are you enjoyable?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I think that's what I would say is just connect.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, cold email, anyone you got, like just get coffee with someone.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: If they if you're a great personality, if they can see it, they're no their clients are gonna see it, right?
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um but you really got to put yourself out there to do that.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I I mean, I didn't graduate with a degree in financial planning.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, those people have a huge leg up and in those things, but really, again, it's like you got to get in front of those people.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: No one's just gonna hire you for resume, especially in this career.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not trusting you with the people it took so long to earn their trust, and then I'm just gonna like, hey, this guy graduated from financial planning school.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: He's gonna be great.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we gotta dig a little bit deeper than that.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just a background story at the end of the day.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Cody, any other um golden nuggets you're thinking of before coming on the podcast today?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Man, I just I was just sad we didn't mention truthful mutual at all during this um today.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we we we beat that horse to death.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: I remember the first uh like you know, fee only, like, I didn't know anything about that.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember Leland was on this podcast when I was like, I gotta go work for a firm that I want.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: And in Hampton Roads in this area, there's like three fee-only firms.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's all broker dealers here.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the environment for it.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was hard to try to find a job at a fee-only um firm.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I do feel like, you know, just learning what the industry is, learning what's out there.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and this podcast was helpful.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: I remember you guys talking about your experience and then going into this niche of just like working at Planners and being at, you know, XY.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, for I mean, man, I I will say that the thing that I'll touch on with that is just like there's a different feeling to it, right?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you're in an environment or you know, you go somewhere, you're in an interview where it feels like everything leads back to one product or one solution, or it always feels like you're restarting, or like you get done, you had a great year, everybody's patting you on the back, and then the next year it's like, what do you have for me here?
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're probably at the wrong place.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: It should feel like every year it gets better.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: You still have problems, but they're better problems.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: How do we better serve clients?
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: How do we have better offerings?
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: How do we, you know, like who are we bringing on to create an even better client experience?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: How are we using people in the in the company?
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: And like, how are those, you know, roles evolving as you bring new people on?
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: Those should be the the conversations that you're having.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: Not every year, the year restarts.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: I have to sell more insurance.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: So that's that's uh definitely something I would I would say it's important to look out for.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it it's just a lot more like people-centric, and not that there's plenty of fantastic planners who's that maybe that's not their model.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but for me, that that felt like a core of what I wanted.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, man.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, Cody, um, for those who may want to reach out or learn more about Peace Link, what's the best way they can?
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: I live mostly under a rock and we need to get better at this market strategy.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you can go to our website, peacelinkfp.com.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: We've also got a LinkedIn.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: We're working on the Instagram.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, our target market is a lot on the social media.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we aren't the flashy, you know, I tell our clients, don't take fashion advice from me.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna wear a pullover and a and a and a shirt every day.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: But we do need to get better at that marketing strategy.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why they love you guys too.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, Cody, thank you so much for coming on today.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: And we really appreciate your time and being able to work together.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: We appreciate you guys.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: All right, man.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: Take it easy.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: See ya.